darkSpyro

I disagree with pigman in my testing I destroyed Flameslinger, Eruptor, Drill Sergent, Bash, and Drobot. But Double Trouble did beat Stealth Elf.

Also have any of you even used Stealth Elf.
P.S. all of my test results were me playing them, so you may have different results, also all of these pvps were done on a ps3.

I appreciate the work egomaut and the gang have done on this list, but a stale tier system will always be a somewhat flawed idea

I have been working on a project with some friends, the kids I babysit and both my sisters' families. It's to establish a fluid PvP tier system that is meant to adjust with how well everyone is performing and evolving PvP strategies. I posted this at gamefaqs recently:


Hello all. I've been reading the forums here and a couple other places and I have been in heavy favor of establishing PvP tiers. There is definitely separation from the bottom fodder and the top end, but every list I see is often rigid, too specific to their personal PvP circle, and discredits some of the better PvPers in the hands of experienced players because people they know don't know how to use them. For example: Gill Grunt is very deadly in the hands of a player with good timing, precise joystick movements, and sound hand dexterity. He has the potential to stay with all the other skylanders if not flat out dominate many, but since some folks have never seen someone pull him off well, they throw him in the mediocre range.

Another thing that haunts a lot of lists I see is people loving this or that character, so they level them up, max out their skills, do all the heroic challenges, put on the best PvP Hat for the character, and play them against other skylanders that don't have all those things going for them. This is why you'll see a couple of the most popular skylanders on the very top of the list, that I'm not so sure is legit (Namely Terrafin and Stealth Elf. Both fantastic, but there are a couple strategies I've used to put both down more often then they have put me down with any of my personal top 10). Do I feel like it might be justified that they are up there......ABSOLUTELY!! But very few people have any sort solid backing they are the top dogs

Getting to the point is I would like to establish a fluid, less rigid system to where a group of people just keep track of how fights pan out and then place the skylanders in 3 PvP tiers. For now they would in a 10-12-10 system. Every so often, the bottom two performers from each tier would drop, and the top two would ascend, keeping the system fluid and giving folks who like bracketed tiers new "rated" match ups to host. The great thing about the system is after the first list comes out, if you are recording your own matches at your home, you could adjust the tiers to how YOUR circle is performing.

This system would overshadow skill disparities by placing skylanders in the middle of where they should be. If they require a certain mind set and play style, the good players will factor against the weaker players of that skylander and they would wind up in a suitable location. It might not be enough that 1 out of 5 of us can dominate with good ol' Gill, or some people just can't figure out ignitor for the life of them. I want to put them where they average out, and if a weaker or stronger placing is needed, it will pan out.

I've been running lots of matches using random skylanders with rotating players in an attempt to see which SKYLANDERS are truly better and not which player is. No hats are worn, and they all just have their personal heroic challenge done. I should have the first 10-12-10 bracket in a couple of weeks. I'd like to get this done for the current bunch so when the next bunch come they can get placed into the center bracket test to see if they should go up down or stay and eventually settle on a 12-16-12 format.

Please comment if you feel like you would use this or would even like share some info by running specific test groups.

Thanks fellas!!

End quote.

I am about done with phase one of three and should be able to post the results by the end of this weekend.

WiiDancer to Upper A Tier. She's plain overrated.

Earth-Dragon, I would definitely like to see it, but I do see two potential issues.

1) Each character only completing his/her own Heroic Challenge. Certain characters (Camo, Double Trouble, etc.) REALLY need the +speed challenges to be good, for example. I think it will corrupt the results just as much as doing every challenge for every character, because the same characters who come into their own with the challenges will be useless without. Either way, Heroics will influence tier placement.

2) A rotating tier system is fantastic for Super Smash Bros., and other fighting games where the concept of a meta-game will influence character placement. That's not entirely the way it is in Skylanders, though; a lot of it is more like Rock/Paper/Scissors than Street Fighter, especially due to the prevalence of elemental strengths/weaknesses in determining results. Because of this, some characters are going to be just plain innately better than others. Ignitor, Cynder, and Stealth Elf will be at or near the top of whatever tier list there is, simply because no amount of meta-gaming is going to make a character like Boomer any more effective at not getting destroyed by them.

I do agree with the importance of empirical data, though. I've based all of my own recommendations for this list off extensive testing with people of approximately equal skill, who battle one another with effective counters in mind. And honestly, I do agree with you that Terrafin is a little overrated, but I can't imagine why you feel that way about Stealth Elf. Then again, I'm also not sure which characters you're talking about countering her with, so before I critique your statement, I would much rather inquire how, and with who you're doing it.

Tashiji:
1) Each character only completing his/her own Heroic Challenge. Certain characters (Camo, Double Trouble, etc.) REALLY need the +speed challenges to be good, for example. I think it will corrupt the results just as much as doing every challenge for every character, because the same characters who come into their own with the challenges will be useless without. Either way, Heroics will influence tier placement.

This has come up before, and I can concede that it might pinch off a bit of a difference, but it also takes down stealth elf's damage(crit), Gill grunt has no armor, chop-chop isn't taking down stump anymore (elemental boost).....it DID effect everyone. I am also making this list to try to cater to all crowds, not just the die hards with glow in the dark wrecking balls sitting on their mantle. While my nephews are running matches with hats and heroic challenges completed, I am not. I am also not running the different upgrade paths. Why? Because people who want to get better analyze the situation, change, adapt, and improve their standings naturally. About half of the skylanders we could still argue which one is better, and that's because it really is situational. It's part of the reason I didn't complete all the challenges as well, so I could reset the figures and change paths on any that seemed like they could do better.

In short, others are testing will full uploads and hats while I am seeing where they even out for those families that don't have them all. Most aren't impacted nearly as bad as you might think.

Tashiji
2) A rotating tier system is fantastic for Super Smash Bros., and other fighting games where the concept of a meta-game will influence character placement. That's not entirely the way it is in Skylanders, though; a lot of it is more like Rock/Paper/Scissors than Street Fighter, especially due to the prevalence of elemental strengths/weaknesses in determining results. Because of this, some characters are going to be just plain innately better than others. Ignitor, Cynder, and Stealth Elf will be at or near the top of whatever tier list there is, simply because no amount of meta-gaming is going to make a character like Boomer any more effective at not getting destroyed by them.

The assumptions you just made about ignitor, Cynder, and stealth elf ARE the reason for it. I've never lost to Stealth Elf while playing Gill Grunt......not once. Part of it is I know how to use her and know what they are going to try to do, and the other is the first thing I thought of when playing skylanders for the first run through with Gill and got him fully upgraded was "I need to master landing and redirecting as fast as this game will let to take out any melee skylander". What I didn't know was that slam bam would be immune to knockback.......Not that it matters because my brother uses slam bam like a machine and so all of his loses were recorded by either another household or while I was using him.

Anyway, yes. The game is rock/paper/scissor, but with that list on the front page, you are isolating figures permanently and it takes the fun out of the game. Ignitor was blown off as garbage by many, and now people view him as impossible to take down. I bet you we haven't seen the last of that. This list is also meant to be in preparation for giants as well, where we see new powers, figures, levels(more hit points), challenges and arenas(let me get back to arenas in a sec). I just would never be so arrogant to feel like just because no one in my play circle has figured out how to take out this skylander with that skylander that no one else has. That what a non-fluid list does.

Oddly, from what we are getting is Terrafin might actually be underrated at this point. He has one of the tougher schedules (fights and control of which skylander were chosen at random as well as random arena for that play session) and I feel it's because people got lazy with the ease. Sunburn hasn't been doing nearly as well as I thought, and Spyro with a blitz package puts sheep burner to shame on the PvP side. Zook is the single figure that makes a fluid list make sense. He has some of the hardest counters. Warnado chewed that guy up all three matches on two different arenas. But again, the list shows he cant compete with him, and that's according to just a bunch of people giving their opinions and not having a panel test everyone on the field. It's why I have kids involved(8 years of age minimum playing other kids) and not just adults or adults beating the snot out of their 7 year old daughter and acting like it was an "equal match". I could get gill into the "s" tier. My brother couldn't. My brother could make most think Slam Bam should be up there. People who question me if I suggested upper a for him after seeing me play him.

Wrapping this up, I view this tier system like college football. Boise State has been beating the snot out of programs, including the likes of Oregon and Georgia, for the past five years. But systems are set up to lock "lower tier" teams like them out from getting the best bowls at the end of the year and instead give them to weaker teams. The perception is they are only winning so much because of the schedule, and it is a tough drawn out process to get a consistently tougher one to better prove your worth.

Because certain figures are by and large accepted as the best, it would take a huge uproar down the road to convince most that some of the figures are better then perceived, and the giants aren't as good, or aren't as good in most other player circles for whatever reason. Let's take a newer figure like Wham-shell. People might figure out this or that about him and start really giving him props, but if a few folks with opinion clout can't figure it out, he'll stay just below them. Why not just set up a system to where this Boise State skylander just gets a shot at the top if he is out performing the rest in his pack instead of saying "nope. Your numbers are only good cause he is beating sonic boom, but so could we".

Unlike a Street Fighter, this game will possibly keep releasing figures over the next few years with new variants, and instead of arguing and lawyering where this or that new guy should be placed, let's have them duke it out and constantly see how things shake up!!

For the issue of Heroics I suggest just Speed Heriocs, as they make the fairest difference. Critical Hits are rarely used on most of the set, Armor is completely useless, and Elemental Power is... OVERpowered. Extra Speed gives a lot more of the Skylanders a chance at being potent in battle, without being a massive decider when done.

Armor isn't useless, it just isn't that flashy so you can't see it's value as easy as the other stats.

The tier list isn't about who can compete directly with who, it's about who, in the grand scheme of the whole game, has the greatest number of strengths and fewest weaknesses. For example, yes, Slam Bam rips Ignitor up like a wet piece of paper, but that doesn't matter, because Ignitor still has a greater advantage over the rest of the field. Similarly, Slime Serpent Zap destroys Slam Bam, but I don't think anyone would contend that this means they should be in the same tier. Regardless of the weakness to Zap, Slam Bam still defeats more of the 37 characters on-on-one than Zap does. If we're going for a list of who directly has that rock-paper-scissors advantage to who, then a tier list is not the right format at all. What we would actually be looking for is a spreadsheet with every character on it, and advantages/disadvantages clearly marked. Then, we can make a tier list based on this fully-transparent list of wins, losses, and draws/equals (like Dino Rang v. Cynder).

I must say that tier lists, as of right this moment, will have inherent flaws no matter who comes up with them, because there is no national tournament scene, or online play for this game. In games like Street Fighter, SSB, and Soul Calibur, they're played both publicly and online. Skylanders is played in living rooms across the country, but there is really no way to compile the empirical data necessary to say who is truly superior to who. You may take out your opponent's Stealth Elf with Gill Grunt, but I consider that fight an easy win for Stealth Elf, no matter how Gill is played, based on my own experience. Since we can't actually test any of this online, it's my word versus yours, and true superiority between those two characters will remain subjective. We also haven't discussed which version we use (Stealth Elf's Acrobatics are shorter on Wii), whether our Heroics are done, and how complete our collections are (since Life > Water, the set bonus is relevant). There are simply too many factors to make a tier list anything but the community's best guess, which is what this thread is about. Everything from console version to number of Heroics to number of characters collected will invariably influence the results. A Stealth Elf with 100 Elemental Power, full Heroics and PS360 Acrobatics is a far different beast for Gill Grunt than one with no Heroics, Wii Acrobatics, and an incomplete collection. Personally, I make my recommendations based on full Heroics/collection, and with version differences noted, but that's not the same for everyone.

Additionally, I would further contend that certain advantages will remain, regardless of whatever meta-game is in place. Something like Ignitor's flame soul, with game mechanics as they are in the first version of Skylanders, is completely without counter from the majority of the game's characters. And this isn't based on how Ignitor or the opposition is being played, it's a mechanical thing. To the point where a world-champion caliber Prism Break, for example, will fall 100% of the time to an average player's SotF Ignitor. Nothing short of a re-balancing of characters in the sequel is going to change the systematic advantage flame soul attacks have to the other characters. They're too damaging, quick, and mobile for the majority of the cast of characters to ever overcome. To me, a Skylander tier list is more like Pokemon, where some are just plain better than others, than like SSB, where advantages rotate based on overarching strategies, trends and metagame. But that's just my take, and why I prefer a tier list along the lines of Smogon's for Pokemon to something more comprehensive. Certain characters will definitely ascend as their true strength is uncovered, but I can't even envision a day where a character like Cynder won't be at the top, no matter how hard fans of the characters who she destroys may want it to happen.

However, I really do want to see your tier list. Any list that can be contributed will help the community at large. I just don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with the one we have, given the limitations for actually compiling data in an exclusively-offline game with no tournament scene. There's only so much we can do with personal experience, conjecture, and unstated factors like Heroics, version, collection, and since we can't battle one another, player skill.

And I do like the concept of just doing speed, but rapid fire guys are being hurt just as much without crit. Elemental matchups arent as advantageous anymore(stealth elf got beat by slam bam the other day). So while people are getting a win here or there they wouldn't, they are also getting a lose.

I just wanna emphasize that I am trying to make a list that finds a balance between people with all the skylanders and those with only a dozen or so. The "only their own challange" idea is because I know they have at least that one. I suppose I could include the three starter pack characters as well(I think I might actually switch to this). I honestly just need a few more partners in the project.

Lastly, I feel a fluid list is more adaptable to any individual circle. If tashiji feels Terrafin is overrated, then perhaps folks just aren't using him as wisely as they could OR they have developed solid skills with the other upper tier guys and he just isn't able to hang anymore. If he wanted, he could take the list and adapt it to his circle of players.

I feel that Terrafin is overrated because, in my experience, he's just not as useful as Dino Rang in PVP, but is still widely considered to be the best Earth PVPer.

Tashiji, I think you are still missing that the purpose of a rotating list is to prep for the new and future games. I do have all 32 skylanders and I am on the XBOX, but I feel this list won't need to be broken when the next game comes out since it should all be standardized with toys for bob making each one(though that is funny that a bunch of japs beefed up the ninja over what the Brits gave it).

Online play might never happen. At least I don't want my kids and nephews and such playing with some of the adult men I've seen making you tube videos of this stuff....just sayin'.

And if course that is what I am finding that there are some strange counters out there. But you guys have 6 blasted tiers at this point. Are you kidding me? Ill have to look again but I think I have one guy in lower b. I guess he'll have just have to hang with himself. And didn't you yourself say Terrafin was overrated? Okay. Let's give him the top 9 opponents currently, lock him in a room, and see if he is still standing.

I definitely don't want to sound angry or buligerant because I'm not. But comparing a game where you have to control characters individually with a menu formatted game is going overboard. Not everyone has as much metagame but a list of characters who do would include: Camo, Voodood, Wham-shell, Hex, Drill Sergeant, Whirlwind, Gill Grunt, Stealth Elf, Boomer, Stump Smash. Are some going to be locked into a battle to raise from the bottom to the middle and then stay there? Yes. As you mentioned the game lacks balance. But don't confuse lack of balance with a lack of possible strategies.

I cannot emphasize this enough, but the list I am compiling is to prep for the future and will be used to roll over into new games that I'm hoping are more competitive. I'll continue to use it with 2-on-2 fights as well, though I'm still kicking around how to incorporate and regulate that.

Quote: Guy

I disagree with pigman in my testing I destroyed Flameslinger, Eruptor, Drill Sergent, Bash, and Drobot. But Double Trouble did beat Stealth Elf.

Also have any of you even used Stealth Elf.
P.S. all of my test results were me playing them, so you may have different results, also all of these pvps were done on a ps3.

So you're on a PS3? That would explain how you beat Eruptor. On the Wii he is a good counter for her. But he is nerfed on the PS3. I think his eruption has a delay or something. Since I play on the Wii, Eruptor generally beats Stealth Elf.

I don't know how you beat Flameslinger and Drill Sergeant with Stealth Elf. I find that Stealth Elf is not fast enough to get close enough to do any damage.

As for Bash, he can beat Stealth Elf as his tail can knock her back slightly to stop her from slashing him.

With Drobot, It's a similar scenario with Drill Sergeant, except it's over much quicker.

I think Tashiji said something about Stealth Elf's acrobatic move having shorter range on the Wii. This may be a factor in why we are getting different results.

Well I play on the Wii and I beat Eruptor, but he was like level 6 so no suprise. When I did it on the ps3 it was at my friend's house.

This has been an interesting conversation, and Earth-Dragon's idea for an adaptive tier list sounds awesome. I think that the things we can learn from that kind of tier list would add up nicely with the information one can already gather from the many "rigid" tier lists made by all the other internet communities out there, and the overall result from all the combined information should be very beneficial for the greater community as Tashiji said. I wish you luck for your project, Earth-Dragon!

I think I should point out at this point, for the purpose of eliminating any doubt, that I have never thought of the tier list here in this thread as accurate nor reliable. This thread was always supposed to be a project where we "do our best" based on whatever opinions, research, and general all-out conjecture that the people taking part can provide. I would like to think that we aim to create an objective and unbiased end result that would apply for any online community besides ours (hence the thread's title), but I know that in practice this will probably not be the case.

Earth-Dragon, you have to keep in mind that this tier list shows the core ability of a character to succeed. Some characters are unarguably more equipped to win than others. Ignitor has a quick, damaging move that can cover a large area, so it is more likely for one to succeed with him than Chop-Chop, who has a low damaging melee attack and an easy-to-dodge projectile as it's only attacking moves. Does that mean that it is impossible to succeed with him? No. But it will be harder than other characters. While Skylanders may not be a selecting menu game, its statistics are very much like one and it should be treated like one.

Why is Volcanoer Eruptor A-Tier on the Wii? I haven't actually played with him so I can't vouch but from what I hear he's godly. And the broken tier is S.

He is quite powerful overall, but the main reason people like him is because he can stop SE. His eruption is good, but he is just pretty slow, so enemies can be pretty safe if they stay away from him.

Pyromancer Flameslinger is in Lower B.

Whaaat? He definetly deserves to be at least Upper B! He's easy to get the hang of and can deal pretty darn good damage. He's a far cry from being in the A Tier, but placing him in Lower B is just insulting.

If D-Rang and Zook are S-tier, then Camo should be in there too.

i haven't read every post, but i gotta say, ghost roaster with his skull charge shouldn't make him be that far down, i half expected to see him on the top of the list. and Chop chop is REALLY strong, i can easily wipe out my opponents with his sword path.

I am sorry to say, but Chop chop usually is NOT strong. His sword attack, with all of his upgrades, only does 20 damage. Most melee attackers do damage in the 30s and 40s. The shield does not take that much damage, and the releasing attack is a letdown. I am sorry, but he deserves his place in the very bottom.

Quote: Bean Sprout

I am sorry to say, but Chop chop usually is NOT strong. His sword attack, with all of his upgrades, only does 20 damage. Most melee attackers do damage in the 30s and 40s. The shield does not take that much damage, and the releasing attack is a letdown. I am sorry, but he deserves his place in the very bottom.

no need for apologizing, stating opinions in a conversation should not aggravate anyone. but im just saying though, he attacks really quickly, he is capable of beating kaos quicker than all my other skylanders (all at max level and most efficient paths). his combo moves rack up lots of damage. and his sword path really is quite impressive.

Quote: SparCrux1101

Quote: Bean Sprout

I am sorry to say, but Chop chop usually is NOT strong. His sword attack, with all of his upgrades, only does 20 damage. Most melee attackers do damage in the 30s and 40s. The shield does not take that much damage, and the releasing attack is a letdown. I am sorry, but he deserves his place in the very bottom.

no need for apologizing, stating opinions in a conversation should not aggravate anyone. but im just saying though, he attacks really quickly, he is capable of beating kaos quicker than all my other skylanders (all at max level and most efficient paths). his combo moves rack up lots of damage. and his sword path really is quite impressive.

In this thread we are solely concerned with PvP, and in PvP Chop Chop is considered the lowest tier melee character compared to every other melee character in the game, even on his Vampiric Warrior path.
I'm not saying that he's all-round bad. He's pretty usable in single player, but against any other skylander in PvP mode, he just doesn't perform. He's slow, his shield doesn't work the way it's meant to and his damage figures just aren't high enough. Even Ignitor's sword path performs better as far as I know.

Please, please, PLEASE move Chop Chop up to at least Upper B. Honestly I think he deserves to rocket straight to Lower A.

Quote: Nibelilt

I've just played him in battle just quickly against totally upgraded Medea and Moneybags - down Vampiric Warrior with just Speed Heroics done and no hats whatsoever- and I feel practically insulted that people think he is weakest or worst now! Chop Chop is a Death saw, he murdered both easily and quickly, and this was against a very, very skilled player of them! Combos are highly effective, agile, and easy to get out of, and Bone Bramblers give him solid long-range coverage. Shield is actually still usable in niche situations in this path. Chop Chop is the most single handedly underrated character in the game and now officially my new favorite. Bone Bramblers unite!

Haven't tried Undead Defender in Battle, but... Did you guys even test Vampiric Warrior at all?

Quote: D-Rex

Trigger Happy / Golden Frenzy is waaaaay too low ranked. The amount of damage output he does is insane, especially when combined with bouncing bullets. Sure he's no Drobot, but he's definitely a deadly contender. A fully charged Golden Yamato Blast tends to end matches too.

i had him on golden frenzy but then i reset him and i like him on the golden mony bags path more cause i like playing at lair of kaos and it takes forever to kill knights on golden frenzy and i can only beat with trigger happy on the golden money bags AND on golden frenzy the pot o gold is useless and u forget about it (really annoying how it takes FOREVER to kill a bad guy)

Okay here's my thought on everyone's placement. Note this is for Wii only.

-Spyro: He's fine.
-Double Trouble: Channeller should be moved to Upper A. He's powerful, but he's easily one of the slowest characters in the game.
-Wrecking Ball: Both need to be moved to the bottom of C Tier. He's the only truly impossible character in the game. Ultimate Spinner is powerful but unusable- Total Tongue is absolutely useless.
-Voodood: He's fine.

-Bash: He's fine.
-Prism Break: He's fine.
-Dino-Rang: He's fine.
-Terrafin: Sandhog's iffy... Because the borrowing period is too short. Needs more widespread testing, but if I had to I would vote to put him in Upper A just because without the burrow he's helpless against even B-Tier characters and it doesn't last long. Brawler is fine.

-Slam Bam: He's fine.
-Zap: He's fine.
-Gill Grunt: He's fine.
-Wham-Shell: He's fine.

-Ignitor: He's fine.
-Sunburn: How is Flame Lord in Upper A? This list is about what's meant to be OBJECTIVELY useful but you put one of the hardest to master characters in the second best tier. Upper B at best.
-Flameslinger: Pyromancer to Upper B. He's average. He's not below average.
-Eruptor: He's fine.

-Drill Sergeant: Haven't played.
-Boomer: He's fine.
-Drobot: He's fine.
-Trigger Happy: Golden Money Bags definetly isn't bad... Objectively let down by the HP- but still Lower B regardless. He is not bad. Golden Frenzy is the pathetic path.

-Hex: She's fine.
-Cynder: I think Shadowdancer needs to go to Upper A just because her damage isn't as broken as it's made out to be, but I know a lot of people will disagree with me, so make what you wish of it.
-Chop Chop: I'm going to say it again, both paths at the bottom is simply insulting. Undead Defender to Lower B, because he has the stats to abuse Stun and kills a lot of the bottom tier, and Vampiric Warrior to Lower A because his combos are easy to spam and do excellent damage. If not then Vampiric Warrior is AT LEAST Upper B. Everything under there is a wet paper towel to him.
-Ghost Roaster: He's fine.

-Whirlwind: Tempest Dragon to Lower A- She has mobility issues but she deals good damage. Ultimate Rainbower to C- almost as bad as Tesla Zap.
-Warnado: He's fine.
-Sonic Boom: She's fine.
-Lightning Rod: He's fine.

-Camo: He's fine.
-Stump Smash: He's fine.
-Zook: He's fine.
-Stealth Elf: She's fine.

@Nibelit:

Double Trouble: Though I'd agree that DT is generally overrated, he does nonetheless have an innate and objective broken-ness about him which still affords him a place in the S Tier in my opinion.

Wrecking Ball: This is an interesting opinion, and because I have never used Wrecking Ball myself I will be waiting on other people's opinions and maybe some rigid battle-result-style information before I can make any informed decision about moving him.

Terrafin: I am pretty certain that Sandhog deserves his place in S Tier. If you need reasons why, then try asking Earth-Dragon.

Sunburn: Again, I have never used Sunburn myself so I don't have a feel for how hard-to-use you say he is, and i'd have to wait to hear some more opinions and rigid information before I can move him. Thanks for bringing it up though!

Flameslinger: I'm always having second thoughts about Flameslinger myself, I must admit. Perhaps If I hear one more opinion about him then i'll move him.

Trigger Happy: This is an opinion I'd aggree with myself, as I've managed to get a little use out of 'Money Bags against the other lower-tier characters... Would anyone else have objections if I moved 'Moeny Bags to Lower B?

Cynder: I'll wait for some more opinions and rigid information before I think about moving her.

Chop Chop: I've been hearing alot about the merits of Chop Chop all of a sudden, and why one or both of his paths should be moved up tiers. I feel hesitant to move him anywhere because the feeling I get from people's stories is that Chop Chop's uses are very situational and he has low margins for error. It may be that Chop Chop is a capable character after time is taken to master him, but his objective ability otherwise confines him to the lowest tier.
I technically haven't used Chop Chop myself, so again I will have to wait for more opinions and rigid information before I can confidently move either of his paths.

Whirlwind: Interesting points, but I haven't used her so I'll have to wait for more people to chime in before I can decide what to do with her.

im sorry EgoNaut but i strongly disagree with ur wii list for example lighning rod is surprisingly better on typhoon titan story mode (i dont know about pvp) and MUCH more fun plus it was a lot easier beating kaos on typhoon titan

Flameslinger- Marksman should be lower A
Flameslinger- Pyromancer should be upper B

hey reaganag have u ever had ur flameslinger on pyromancer ive only had him on marksman and reset him for heroics do u think the pyromancer path is fun?

Not really, I like Marksman much better, but Pyromancer can have it's moments. I just don't want to be without those awesome tripple arrows.

ur right and how there huge!

Quote: andy2467

im sorry EgoNaut but i strongly disagree with ur wii list for example lighning rod is surprisingly better on typhoon titan story mode (i dont know about pvp) and MUCH more fun plus it was a lot easier beating kaos on typhoon titan

This list is for PVP only...

Quote: Nibelilt

Quote: andy2467

im sorry EgoNaut but i strongly disagree with ur wii list for example lighning rod is surprisingly better on typhoon titan story mode (i dont know about pvp) and MUCH more fun plus it was a lot easier beating kaos on typhoon titan

This list is for PVP only...

oooh but ignitor is still better down blademaster (sword does 40 damage A HIT and 60 with critical hit)

"Chop Chop: I've been hearing alot about the merits of Chop Chop all of a sudden, and why one or both of his paths should be moved up tiers. I feel hesitant to move him anywhere because the feeling I get from people's stories is that Chop Chop's uses are very situational and he has low margins for error. It may be that Chop Chop is a capable character after time is taken to master him, but his objective ability otherwise confines him to the lowest tier.
I technically haven't used Chop Chop myself, so again I will have to wait for more opinions and rigid information before I can confidently move either of his paths."

Basically, spam B Combo when you can, use Bone Bramblers otherwise, win.
I get the feeling he was placed so low because initially people thought he was horrible, putting other people away from him and keeping him there because of little testing. But if you just max out his Speed he's surprisingly good in Battle.
I'll describe his battle power:
A Attack- 20 damage per hit, hits quickly, big attack range.
A Combo- I'm not totally sure how many times this hits, but it hits A LOT and FAST- 11 damage a hit, and you can get out of it instantly. The only real downside is that it locks your attack into one direction.
B Combo- Homes in on opponent(OR can be redirected), hits thrice for 20 damage each, as fast moving as Stealth's Z Combo and attacks instantly. Also deals with ConjurDouble's Doubles and Sonic's babies perfectly, with 360 degree damage.
Z Combo- Pretty much useful to jump away, or use as a combo to get last hits in after your opponent tries to run off themselves(unleashes Bone Brambles, see below for damage numbers). Extremely quick.
Bone Brambles: 17 Damage for each spine- six (I think?) spines. Hits pretty much everything with at least three spines at once, larger opponents like Slam Bam get punished even more. Also knocks back. Very fast. Good range, around twice as long as the sword.

im sorry but i still strongly disagree with ur wii list warnado should be higher on wind master and ignitor is much better on blademaster etc.

Quote: andy2467

im sorry but i still strongly disagree with ur wii list warnado should be higher on wind master and ignitor is much better on blademaster etc.

If you don't play PVP, please don't make suggestions. Wind Master Warnado sucks in PVP because his tornado is easily interrupted, and he has nothing else to do, Blademaster Ignitor- from what I hear- misses a lot with what is supposed to be his main attack and is too slow and also has low HP. If you really want to go make your own Story tiering list.

sorry im sounding like an idiot but but im saying did he get all skylanders and played pvp with all of them on both paths

• Flameslinger / Pyromancer for Wii version moved to Upper B Tier.
  

Does anyone think I should move Flameslinger / Marksman to Lower A tier for one or both versions?


EDIT: I'm still really, really confused about what to do with Chop Chop right now. I'll keep thinking on it, but any other informed opinions people can provide that clear up the picture would be helpful.

I agree with Nibelit about Chop Chop. Vampiric Warrior should be upper B, and Undead Defender should be lower B

And I think you should move Flameslinger/Marksman to upper A on at least the Wii. I can't say anything about the PS3/Xbox360 versions.

which path is better or chop chop?

Quote: EgoNaut

• Flameslinger / Pyromancer for Wii version moved to Upper B Tier.
  

Does anyone think I should move Flameslinger / Marksman to Lower A tier for one or both versions?


EDIT: I'm still really, really confused about what to do with Chop Chop right now. I'll keep thinking on it, but any other informed opinions people can provide that clear up the picture would be helpful.

I haven't played Marksman, so I can't give input on that.

Quote: Reaganag

I agree with Nibelit about Chop Chop. Arkeyan Defender should be upper B, and Undead Defender should be lower B

And I think you should move Flameslinger/Marksman to upper A on at least the Wii. I can't say anything about the PS3/Xbox360 versions.

You mean Vampiric Warrior and Undead Defender.
Nobody seems to oppose it, so I think that:
Vampiric Warrior to Upper B- Pretty much everything below there and even some stuff within this tier is destroyed by him, but he does struggle against some A-pponents.
Undead Defender to Lower B- Stats to abuse Stun and fair attack. C Tier can't do much against him especially since with the lower damage numbers they tend to set off the Shield Beam correctly.

Oops. Thanks for pointing that out

I think Chop Chop is good where he is. He is situational, and his damage input is quite low. His shield is not what it should be at all, also.

Tell me seriously that you think Wrecking Ball doesn't deserve the bottom instead.

P.S. People... B COMBO is IMPORTANT! Assuming you get in both regular sword hits and then all three hits of the combo you reach 100 easily and quickly. He's fast enough to escape, Bone Brambles are actually usable to hit behind walls, and he has the HP to sustain quite a few hits. (600 I think?)

Total Tongue, I can agree, is worse than Choppy. But, when Ultimate Spinner gets a clear shot in front of an opponent (Which, I can agree, is kinda rare) he can do TONS of damage. The forcefield ball is quite quick, and the forcefield blast can end it if you go in a different direction accidentally.
And I barely ever hit with the brambles, unless I am right next to them where I could just use my sword. And the shield just never does its proper job.
However, I think that Chop Chop will be MASSIVELY revamped in Giants.

Quote: Nibelilt

Tell me seriously that you think Wrecking Ball doesn't deserve the bottom instead.

P.S. People... B COMBO is IMPORTANT! Assuming you get in both regular sword hits and then all three hits of the combo you reach 100 easily and quickly. He's fast enough to escape, Bone Brambles are actually usable to hit behind walls, and he has the HP to sustain quite a few hits. (600 I think?)

u can hit behind walls with bone brambler thats cool

Thing is though the ball is impossible to use. Practically anything can run from it and whatever can't is strong enough to easily land damage afterwards. The 61 damage for the ball isn't that much in Skylanders against a LOT of characters.

Bone Brambles actually goes over walls as well so it's kind of useful in stuff like Mushroom Grove especially. But alas, arenas do not count!

This conversation is really interesting... but it's also making me more and more confused!

Quote: EgoNaut

This conversation is really interesting... but it's also making me more and more confused!

That's why I was suggesting everything off of match data with a fluid list. I think some of this current "chop-chop rocks" talk is coming from the fact they are matching him up against these lower tier guys and only the lower tier guys. At that point, you'll always have one or two that rises up and becomes a champion. To compare to CFB again, some lower level champions like Troy in the sunbelt conf. Do well there, but just can't hang with the big dogs. Others, like TCU and Boise State, not only compete with top schools but have made some look just downright silly.

While I agree the metagame isn't the level of a street fighter game, there is more of one then to throw this game in with the menu based games when making a list. A lot of the metagame comes from learning how to fight in all the different arenas including where the different power-ups show up.