darkSpyro

Which one do you think is better? Only vote if you have played both.

Responses on this site will be biased. I have messed around with Infinity, and, while I do find it somewhat interesting, I personally enjoy Skylanders exponentially more. I wouldn't be surprised if my 4 year old daughter eventually likes Infinity more than Skylanders, but I'm 33 and Skylanders is tons more fun for me.

Trying to be as unbiased as possible, I'd still say Skylanders. To justify:

- controls in Infinity for the most part feel really clunky. Aiming with projectiles comes to mind here as being really slow and by the same mechanics, using the wand in Toy Box can be frustrating

- characters don't upgrade. They just level up, gaining you more random Toy Box items. I find it lessens the feeling of ownership of the character because you can't get them to "grow" ability-wise in a way that you want them to.

- characters are bound by those created by Disney. As dumb as it sounds, I think this lessens their creativeness. The next set of Skylanders could be anything from a snowman that sets himself on fire to a walking dustbin but at the end of the day they'll all fit in with each other in the same universe

- graphics aren't as good

- story mode is very basic and repetitive. I think the only really exciting moment I've had was unlocking Buzz Lightyear's jetpack, but it felt like a grind to get there :/


On a positive note, the whole game improves drastically when you play with a friend / sibling. Running around the world griefing each other for good natured fun is a highlight
The Toy Box is impressive too, but I can't help feeling if that's the reason you're buying it then you'd be far better off with Minecraft.

Just gonna warn everyone: this thread could get very outta hand.

Personally, I'd say Skylanders, due to the amazing details/paint quality, and the fun, RPG-esque gameplay.

Skylanders obviously Quality of the Infinity toys is quite good though.

(Post amazing entrance here)_____________.
(Post opinion here)______________.
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I prefer having fun fighting baddies to running around and doing tasks, which is basically what Infinity is. It doesn't look bad, but for my money Skylanders is better.

That being said--there's room for both. They really are different games outside of the portal element.

As an owner of pretty much everything current for both. My opinion is that skylanders currently edges out DI. I do like DI but the playsets are overloaded with boring challenges and they feel kinda samey not to mention no maps in playsets and no collectibles list for each playset is very annoying. That being said if they fix all the problems within DI in DI2 it could be a much more enjoyable game.

I played both but it is actually hard to say either way, PUT AWAY YOUR PITCHFORKS! Let me explain. Of course I played Skylanders first and the figures provide more personalisation and a nice storyline. Sure its a very kiddy storyline but im a kid at heart so I can deal with it. Gameplay is fun and simple button mashing goodness and the variety is great between characters. Infinity however has basically NO storyline outside of the playsets (which I barley play however) The toy box is where it's AT! I love being creative and this game provides just that which draws me to but the game in the first place. The character have virtually NO personalitaion and are just keys. Sure some are special in gameplay styles but that is thrown out the window once you unlock items which allow other characters use your once unique abilities. (Mr Incredible, Dash, Vanellope, Ralph excluded.) But the game is fun and creative. The biggest thing is, other than the figures aspect... They are entirley different games. If Infinity was a hack and slash game like Skylanders than it would be easier to compare. But since it isnt, I cant compare Apples to Oranges here.

Skylanders Swap Force x100000000000000000000000000000.

We're comparing them again? They are much different in the game aspect that they shouldn't be compared.

DI: A handful of play sets that were made from disney movies for the certain characters of that movie and a toy box full of things to do for hours of play

SSW: A single story line with eight elements that you need to switch between to complete the game

Personally I like Disney Infinity more because of the fact that after you're done with a play set there is still a huge open toy box for you, I haven't touched skylanders since I finished it

NOT ANOTHER ONE!

I have both. But i havent played Disney Infinity since i first bought it. Thats how much fun i found it.

But as others have said its a preference thing. Disney Infinity is mainly about building worlds. Which i could care less about. I just wanted to jump in and have fun. But then i realized pretty much everytyhing you collect even in the levels like Monster University, Cars etc., is only for building worlds and has no application in that play set. Also there is no real leveling up your characters. Leveling up your characters just gives you more spins for more stuff to build worlds. They said this was to make the game more fun but to me it takes all the fun out of progressing your characters.

Also when i look at it from my 4 year olds point of view, he has a very hard time in Disney Infinity. He is always asking for help. Where with Swapforce he jumps in and can pretty much do everything on his own except for the puzzles etc. So to me Disney Infinity is better for older kids.

As far as the characters go i think Disney Infinitys are better built to handle kid abuse. They are thicker heavier plastic. On the other hand i think skylanders have a lot more detail. Most of the Disney infinity characters are just bland colors with little added details.

Skylanders is more geared towards people of all ages, and to me is more fun.

Disney infinity is geared more towards older kids and adults and is for people who want to build and design, then get to see their designs in action.

I think the Disney Infinity toys just look boring.

I knew people were gonna very biased here on a Skylanders (and Spyro) site, I doubt some of these people have even touched Infinity . Anyway, I have played both and I personally enjoy Disney Ininity 2x more, though I still like both games:

- SWAP Force is WAY too short of a game and only has 17 levels outside of DLCs (12 of are actual levels, 5 of them are just boss fights), if you speedrun it could just be beaten in 3 hours and won't last longer than a week unless you intentionally slow down to make it feel longer (that's what I do).

Once you do beat the game, there isn't much content unlocked other than Nightmare Mode (still too easy anyway) and Score/Time Attack modes, and the game starts to get a little boring for me just beating the same levels over and over. With Infinity after beating a playset, you unlock more stuff in the Toy Box and there's more of a reason for me to return. The playsets can be basic and repetitive, but I still enjoy playing them since it reminds me of the movies. So far, the only Playset I didn't like was the Incredibles, the most repetitive and the most basic.

- Both games have good-looking toys, but I prefer Ininity toys and this is purely a personal opinion. Disney characters are just more recognizable and I've seen them before quite a number of times, I enjoy nostalgia from those movies and shows Skylanders eh, not so much. Most of the Toys are just some random modified animals, mythical creatures, or flat out weirdos: Zook *cough *cough*.

They also don't display much personality other than anger or looking like they want to fight (its a combat based game after all), where Infinity characters display more emotions and charisma other than "Round one.... FIGHT!", just like they did in their respective movies. If Mike was equipped with an RPG gun, he would look just as cool as Gill Grunt if not better.

- Worlds in Infinity are ALOT bigger and more open-spaced than Skylanders, Skylanders is a little linear and limited. In Local 2 player mode, Infinity has split screen that allows you and your friend to separate and go wherever you want if you please, where the latter is not true at all: Skylanders ties you both up with a magic rope and you're stuck with each other for the entire gameplay except in Survival and Battle Modes (and those are too small for you to truly separate anyway).

Wouldn't it be nice to ditch my little cousin to compete with her and beat the level before she does? If it had split screen it'd be possible but nooo, you're tied up like 2 Criminals on the Lam or something.

- Skylanders relies WAY too much on Gimmicks and the figurines, focusing more on the toy collecting rather than the actual gameplay. SWAP Force characters don't really feel much like actual characters to me, they just feel like gimmicks that lock certain zones. I also hate how they STILL repose figurines with new Wow Pows. DI has no gimmick type characters and while it still tries to advertise figurines, it still focuses a lot on the game and not just the toys.

In an interview somehwhere, they announced that Disney Infinity will have another game each year. Characters from the first game will still work in the 2nd, albeit they won't have a playset to go with them (which also implies that they won't be reposed). For the first Disney Infinity, there'll be an update that allows for Characters from DI2 to work in the first game even if you don't plan on buying the sequel; I don't hear that for Skylanders anywhere

- Skylanders doesn't have any Online Multiplayer and some of its game modes require 2 players and cannot be played in single player. Why isn't there a CPU mode for battle mode? I can't just beg my little cousin to play every time she visits my home, not everyone has a 2nd controller or siblings. Disney Infinity has it though and while it isn't flawless (you need to make a Disney account to use it), I still have a hell of fun playing this with friends and visiting their Toy Boxes.


- No Sandbox mode or any form of creation (SWAPPING SWAP Force guys doesn't count, it ain't creating!), Disney Infinity has it all... With a couple of spins and extra characters, your possibilities with the Toy Box are almost LIMITLESS! You could build:

- Race Tracks
- Obstacle Courses
- Puzzles (really complex ones at that too)
- 2D Platformers
- PvP Arenas
- Speed Missions
- Sports games
- Themed worlds based on the movies

etc.

And even if you're not a great builder yourself, you could still download Toy Boxes from those who are. This is the main reason to play Infinity in my eyes and its almost as fun as going to the Carnival. The only real problems I have with this mode are audio issues (which doesn't affect gameplay) and having to grind for all of the spins. If you want 100% of everything in the toy Box you need to have every toy sadly, which prevents this game from reaching its full potential. Regardless, I still enjoy it more than Minecraft's Sandbox, that's for sure.

Both games are honestly Money Vacuums and are not as good as they could've been, held back by the toy collecting. Skylanders is too short, simple, and there isn't enough game in it to be worth collecting all the figures. I must admit though: Disney Infinity has a little too many glitches and you'll have to buy every character if you want all the toys, a lot of the characters also play identically to each other (especially in the same universe, Mike = Sulley and Randall). Neither game is for everyone, especially not poor people who can't afford to buy all the toys.

Skylanders is a game meant for combat comrades, gimmick fanatics, and overall less experienced gamers: particularly younger kids.
Disney Infinity is a more advanced game that will appeal more to Disney fans (which is more popular than Skylanders will ever be), Older Kids, and those who love to build things with their imagination.

Quote:

characters are bound by those created by Disney. As dumb as it sounds, I think this lessens their creativeness. The next set of Skylanders could be anything from a snowman that sets himself on fire to a walking dustbin but at the end of the day they'll all fit in with each other in the same universe

I know tis is your opinion, but can't say I agree with you there, friend; Skylanders aren't all that creative.

- A Fiery Snowman? Something like that has already existed in Earthworm Jim, a boss battle named Rusty the Snowman who literally lives in a Planet similar to Hell itself and breathes fireballs despite being made of snow.

- A Rattlesnake who springs up and down, that's been done to death already (like Rattly the Rattlesnake in Donkey Kong Country 2). He also looks like Rattlesnake Jake from Rango

- Spyro the Dragon is just Spyro, albeit in a different carnation that's uglier imo

- Gill Grunt, its just a fish

- Hot Dog, its just a dog (and a ripoff of Eruptor)

- Stink Bomb, its just a Skunk

- Rip Tide, a frog-like fish (who looks like Globox from Rayman) who uses a swordfish as a sword, also been done to death already.

Seriously, although Disney characters being turned into toys isn't too original, Skylanders is FILLED with Generic characters equally Uncreative. As mentioned before, most of them are just based on Ordinary Animals or Mythical Creatures. Disney is also older than Skylanders by about 73 years and has made several characters that they could put in the next game (most of them are modern though), where Skylanders will one day run out of original ideas. They are simply just 70 or more years too late.

I feel like this was discussed to death in the previous thread: //forum.darkspyro.net/spyro/vi...ic=86699&page=3

Skylanders in spades. Infinity is less a game and more... a giant steaming mess. It tried to be everything, but the playsets aren't as fun as Skylanders and the world-building is far, far worse than something like Little Big Planet and is ridiculously limited.
But it worst sin (in my eyes, your mileage may vary) is that the toys add nothing to the Infinity experience. Most of the characters play the same, they have no upgrades, no meaningful leveling (levels don't improve the character at all) - and because of this almost nothing is saved to the figure and you quickly find that your Jack Sparrow is identical in every way to everyone else Jack Sparrow. The toys end up as DLC keys to unlock the chests and little more.
The only thing that Infinity has going for it is the online play. Other than that, the only thing that Skylanders can learn from Infinity is how not to make a game.

Meanwhile Swapforce is longer than any of the previous games, and it adds score/timed leaderboards so you can compete with friends. It looks far better, it plays far better and the controls are much easier than DI.

Honestly, you could get Swapforce and Little Big Planet, and that combination will be better than Infinity in every way.

If you want to read a more detailed review I have a four-post monster review over in the old thread ( //forum.darkspyro.net/spyro/vi...ic=86699&page=3 )

I hate to be pedantic, but there is nothing 'biased' about the opinions of anyone here.

Obviously, as this is a Skylanders fan site, people who like Skylanders will have found their way here, which would skew any poll - but that doesn't make your opinions any less valid or more 'biased' than anyone else's. You made up your mind, and you did so without being paid by any company or being rewarded for doing so.
Now, I agree that this site might not a great sample if you're conducting a definitive scientific poll, but that's poor participant selection, not bias.

Now, helpfully, if you did want the opinions of people who haven't already made up their minds, we have a site for that. It's called metacritic.
And metacritic gave Disney Infinity 74% (x360), 75% (PS3) and 71% (WiiU).
For comparison, Metacritic gave Skylanders Swapforce 84% (X360), 83% (PS3) and 92% (WiiU).
Combined Infinity score: 73.33%
Combined Swapforce score: 86.33%

Can't we just stop argueing witch one is better?

I like SSF better, but that is an opinion..

*sigh* Can't you just leave our opinions alone, BEFORE we got a fight? AGAIN!?

I think chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla.....

Quote: Tel Prydain

I hate to be pedantic, but there is nothing 'biased' about the opinions of anyone here.

Obviously, as this is a Skylanders fan site, people who like Skylanders will have found their way here, which would skew any poll - but that doesn't make your opinions any less valid or more 'biased' than anyone else's. You made up your mind, and you did so without being paid by any company or being rewarded for doing so.
Now, I agree that this site might not a great sample if you're conducting a definitive scientific poll, but that's poor participant selection, not bias.

Now, helpfully, if you did want the opinions of people who haven't already made up their minds, we have a site for that. It's called metacritic.
And metacritic gave Disney Infinity 74% (x360), 75% (PS3) and 71% (WiiU).
For comparison, Metacritic gave Skylanders Swapforce 84% (X360), 83% (PS3) and 92% (WiiU).
Combined Infinity score: 73.33%
Combined Swapforce score: 86.33%

Didn't ya read the forum rules? You're not supposed to make 2 posts in a row unless its because of character limits or something. All you had to do was just edit your first comment and then add this extra info.

Quote: Tel Prydain

I hate to be pedantic, but there is nothing 'biased' about the opinions of anyone here.

Obviously, as this is a Skylanders fan site, people who like Skylanders will have found their way here, which would skew any poll - but that doesn't make your opinions any less valid or more 'biased' than anyone else's. You made up your mind, and you did so without being paid by any company or being rewarded for doing so.
Now, I agree that this site might not a great sample if you're conducting a definitive scientific poll, but that's poor participant selection, not bias.

Now, helpfully, if you did want the opinions of people who haven't already made up their minds, we have a site for that. It's called metacritic.
And metacritic gave Disney Infinity 74% (x360), 75% (PS3) and 71% (WiiU).
For comparison, Metacritic gave Skylanders Swapforce 84% (X360), 83% (PS3) and 92% (WiiU).
Combined Infinity score: 73.33%
Combined Swapforce score: 86.33%

...I was just asking... P.S. I said nothing about bias and Metacritic is filled with fake user reviews and paid-off critics.

Quote: LightSpyro13

I have played both and I personally enjoy Disney Ininity 2x more, though I still like both games:

...

Skylanders is a game meant for combat comrades, gimmick fanatics, and overall less experienced gamers: particularly younger kids.
Disney Infinity is a more advanced game that will appeal more to Disney fans (which is more popular than Skylanders will ever be), Older Kids, and those who love to build things with their imagination.

Well, to each their own. I am older and a very experienced gamer, and I like Skylanders a lot more than Infinity. The Toy Box / map editor is a neat idea, but I can't get past the characters and the combat. Both games appeal to me because I can play them with my daughter, but the gameplay in Infinity feels clunky to me. Combat is slower. I don't like the over-the-shoulder camera. The characters don't feel cohesive. They are all from completely different settings. Skylanders characters are all Skylanders. They fit together. I like the RPG aspects like the ability paths and how they are saved to the figure. The Infinity split screen is nice in co-op, but it was really their only option with the crappy camera and the over-the-shoulder view. The Skylanders same-screen co-op is simply a different philosophy - avoid split-screen if you can because split-screen is annoying. I wish the camera would zoom out a bit more in Skylanders when co-op partners move further apart, but that's minor. I like that they avoided split-screen.

Not sure what "gimmick fanatics" are. Both games use the same toy / figure on a portal gimmick, but Skylanders does that part better, imo, by saving to the figure and making the portal a major part of the lore. Speaking of, the Skylanders lore and back story is an original one which also makes it more appealing to me. Infinity is a mashup of Disney stories that don't fit together.

I'd be more sympathetic with Infinity if they could have made a decent Jack Skellington. The Infinity version is just wrong.

Anyway, I agree to disagree.

Disney infinty X10 times up

-Skyanders are getting uncrreative. Seriously? A wind up toy? Here is a So orignal!

-No freedom.No fun

-To much chase varients not enough 75 dollar game.

Quote: Ryanator20x6

...I was just asking...

That's cool man - it's a good question, and the reasons that people give are interesting.
Just suggesting that you might like to go visit the other thread where we've talked about it already.

Didn't mean to poop on your post.
Quote: Ryanator20x6

P.S. I said nothing about bias

I know - it wasn't aimed at you, mate. I was addressing all the folk that suggested that this thread would be biased - I'm actually arguing that the thread is asking a good, fair question and it's not 'biased' just because of where you're asking it. Sure, more folk here will favor Skylanders, but not because we're biased - just because we like Skylanders better.

Quote: Ryanator20x6

and Metacritic is filled with fake user reviews and paid-off critics

I was quoting 'official' reviews, not fake user reviews.
And I think that claiming that all paid reviewers are 'paid-off' is perhaps a bit of a jump.

Quote: Sleepy0429

-To much chase varients not enough 75 dollar game.

That's a fair opinion... however I'd like to add that there really is nothing making you collect all the figures for Swapforce (unlike Infinity where every figure is required to unlock everything). And there is particularly no reason to chase the chase variants, which are identical in the game in every way to the standard figures.

Quote: Tel Prydain

Quote: Sleepy0429

-To much chase varients not enough 75 dollar game.

That's a fair opinion... however I'd like to add that there really is nothing making you collect all the figures for Swapforce (unlike Infinity where every figure is required to unlock everything). And there is particularly no reason to chase the chase variants, which are identical in the game in every way to the standard figures.

DID YOU SEE JOLLY UNLOCKS THE JOLLY HAT?

Quote: Sleepy0429

DID YOU SEE JOLLY UNLOCKS THE JOLLY HAT?

Okay, that's a breakdown in terminology... you said "chase variants", and on this site the "chase variants" normally refer to the toys that look different, but are identical inside the game (like the silver figures or the 'glow in the dark' figures). When talking about alternative appearances in game (the legendary figures, the Dark figures, the Jade figures, Polar, Scarlett, Molten, etc) they are called in-game variants.
There is absolutely no reason to chase the "chase variants", but there is some reason to chase the "in-game variants" if you like their coloring.

And to address your new point RE: the hat :-
That's a fair point, and I'll concur that in this case you're right - the item is locked to that figure. But that's also an exception and not the rule.
Further, that's a pretty minor piece of content, compared to Infinity which locks a lot more to the figures - not just the items in the figure's personal chest, but also via the Vaults in the playsets that require every related figure to crack open.
The NPCs/textures/buildings/items locked to figures in Infinity are a lot more significant than a single hat. And unlike Skylanders, the ONLY reason you'd want an Infinity figure (other than the cool toy) is that locked content, as the ingame character has nothing new... The cars are all the same, the Pirates are all the same, the Monsters are all the same - and it's not like you can take the other character down a different skill path, as there are no skills, let alone paths.

TLR
You're totally right, but in regards to the SSF vs DI comparison, my point stands.

Quote: samuraituretsky

Quote: LightSpyro13

I have played both and I personally enjoy Disney Ininity 2x more, though I still like both games:

...

Skylanders is a game meant for combat comrades, gimmick fanatics, and overall less experienced gamers: particularly younger kids.
Disney Infinity is a more advanced game that will appeal more to Disney fans (which is more popular than Skylanders will ever be), Older Kids, and those who love to build things with their imagination.

Well, to each their own. I am older and a very experienced gamer, and I like Skylanders a lot more than Infinity. The Toy Box / map editor is a neat idea, but I can't get past the characters and the combat. Both games appeal to me because I can play them with my daughter, but the gameplay in Infinity feels clunky to me. Combat is slower. I don't like the over-the-shoulder camera. The characters don't feel cohesive. They are all from completely different settings. Skylanders characters are all Skylanders. They fit together. I like the RPG aspects like the ability paths and how they are saved to the figure. The Infinity split screen is nice in co-op, but it was really their only option with the crappy camera and the over-the-shoulder view. The Skylanders same-screen co-op is simply a different philosophy - avoid split-screen if you can because split-screen is annoying. I wish the camera would zoom out a bit more in Skylanders when co-op partners move further apart, but that's minor. I like that they avoided split-screen.

Not sure what "gimmick fanatics" are. Both games use the same toy / figure on a portal gimmick, but Skylanders does that part better, imo, by saving to the figure and making the portal a major part of the lore. Speaking of, the Skylanders lore and back story is an original one which also makes it more appealing to me. Infinity is a mashup of Disney stories that don't fit together.

I'd be more sympathetic with Infinity if they could have made a decent Jack Skellington. The Infinity version is just wrong.

Anyway, I agree to disagree.

About the lore and backstory part, what story exactly are you talking about? Are you talking about the main game's story or the side stories on each characters bio outside of the game? Either way, I don't agree with them being original, or at least not to a degree. When Skylanders first came out, I thought the story was pretty adorable how they got banished to Earth in the form of tiny plastic toys and I found it to be quite enjoyable, when Kaos actually did seem like a villain and when you seemed important as a Portal Master. In the sequels however, the story is just this: Some old fogeys named the Giants and SWAP Force come back thanks to you. Kaos also comes back to Earth and its once again up to the Skylanders to stop him (and his mom) again, couldn't get anymore generic than that. Good vs Evil Plot is WAAAAY overused imo. Not only that, but the NPCs (except Master Eon) seemed to have completely forgotten about your existence, and give all the thanks to the Skylosers for all the heroic deeds... despite the fact if not for you, the portal master, the Skylanders wouldn't have come back at all and Skylands would still be in peril, nor would they have anyone to aid them (Buying stuff with Portal Master Ranks and of course, helping them with he game controller). The 4th wall breaking moments among Flynn, Hugo, Kaos, and a few others are gone and the Skylanders (who don't even appear in the animated cutscenes) get 100% of the credit. The story was cool at first, but it grew old quick and is ruined. I also disagree with all Characters fitting together, some characters (especially from the same element) look like they belong only with certain people. Zook + Grim Creeper is just one example of an unfitting combo.


And about the Gimmicks, although Both Games generally use the Toy Portal Idea, Skylanders pushes it too far imo. Instead of going with nice, normal figurines, they focus more on unique gimmick-type characters with differences from Normal Skylanders and doing stuff they can't, also charging $5 more than normal ones. They also base the game names after them, Skylanders Giants and Skylanders SWAP Force: REAL Original names.

Giants are able to Lift Boulders, Smash Holes in the Ground, Feat of Strength Areas and Open Certain Crates; they also have tons more health than Normal Characters and are practically INVINCIBLE except on Hard and Nightmare Mode (and those modes both have a lack of balance anyway).

SWAP Force Guys feel even more like Gimmicks. Not only do they have the ability swap tops and their butts and asses, but they can also go into certain mini challenges that no other characters can, requiring a certain bottom have access. Obviously another way of making money and a way of advertising the toys in-game.

What's Next? Skylanders Minis? Skylanders Lightcores? Skylanders MEGA BLOCKS (Game version)?

I do agree with the part about the combat and abilities but personally, the camera in Disney Infinity doesn't bother me very much at all! Another problem I have with Skylanders is that its very simplistic and very easy to master, difficulty is below average and underwhelming even on Nightmare. Since there are only 3 buttons to use for combat, most of the characters have no learning curve and could be mastered within just 20 minutes as soon as you upgrade them (with few exceptions, like Prism Break and Riptide). While the combat is definitely more fun and enjoyable then Infinity's, it still is lacking since you beat enemies without much of a strategy with almost all of the characters. The enemies' AI are too stupid to use their attacks properly and only have 1 or 2 moves, making them very predictable and easy to beat. They don't even patrol to search for you, they just stand there and wait for you to come to them or just idle around in a small circle.

The only time you actually will need a true strategy is in Battle Mode PvP, but even that mode isn't fantastic (in my opinion at least) and is still in need of improvement.

1. Combat System is still shallow and some character upgrades don't work at all in this mode (like Magna Charges bottom paths). Although you still need to try and outsmart your opponent, your strategy is still gonna be pretty straightforward and you only have 3 or (sometimes) more moves. There just isn't enough depth and feel in the combat to make it all that exiting.

2. No Online Multiplayer makes it hard for some people like me to find an opponent.

3. There isn't any Arcade mode or CPU Mode like they have in Fighting Games, you need a 2nd controller just to play this mode and Single Player is completely impossible.

4. An overall lack of Balance, most PvP Games have Tier Lists, Matchups, and whatnot that prevent them from truly balanced. Skylanders takes the cake for this and is easy the least balanced game I have ever played, even more than Marvel vs Capcom 2. Not only are there 80 characters total, but some of them are so broken (like Night Shift or Terrafin) that they could be considered "God Tier" and are frustratingly difficult to beat; others like Trigger Happy and Warnado are total pushovers and almost anyone could beat them, comparable to Dan from Street Fighter who's well known for being extremely weak and hard to play as a Joke Character (someone made to intentionally be puny).

Battle Mode is fun, but I would rather play fighting games like Darkstalkers or Super Smash Bros that have much depth in the combat and allowing Single Player Mode. I completely agree with you that the combat is better than Infinity's, but it's still not v exciting if you look at by itself and only itself.

But yeah, I agree to disagree.

I find it odd you're so down on the Swappers when, both here of the forums and in reviews, it seems the feature is appreciated as fun, interesting and an interesting way to get more out of your figures.

I really don't care man

Actually, these are not biased they show reasoning.

Well, I think I'm biased because I had already invested a lot of time and money into Skylanders by the time Infinity and Swap Force came out. I did, however, give Infinity an honest try for my daughter's sake. It just isn't nearly as enjoyable to me as Skylanders.

Semi-unrelated, but since we brought up liking / not-liking the swap mechanic, I don't really like it. I wish the swap characters had not had the tops and bottoms be separate-able. I like the movement abilities and I wish they had just focused on those and kept the figures in one solid piece. I don't like how they look all mismatched when they're swapped, don't like the silliness of the idea of humanoid characters swapping torsos and legs, and I don't like the staggering number of combinations it adds for trying to sort rankings of character power levels.

It's a minor gripe for me. If it were up to me, they wouldn't have gone in that direction. It's not up to me though, obviously, and what's done is done. Still a huge fan of the games, although as of now I think Giants was the series' pinnacle. I do love me some Roller Brawl though.

Quote: LightSpyro13

- A Fiery Snowman? Something like that has already existed in Earthworm Jim, a boss battle named Rusty the Snowman who literally lives in a Planet similar to Hell itself and breathes fireballs despite being made of snow.

- A Rattlesnake who springs up and down, that's been done to death already (like Rattly the Rattlesnake in Donkey Kong Country 2). He also looks like Rattlesnake Jake from Rango

- Spyro the Dragon is just Spyro, albeit in a different carnation that's uglier imo

- Gill Grunt, its just a fish

- Hot Dog, its just a dog (and a ripoff of Eruptor)

- Stink Bomb, its just a Skunk

- Rip Tide, a frog-like fish (who looks like Globox from Rayman) who uses a swordfish as a sword, also been done to death already.

Sulley is a blue bear with horns and chicken pox
Jack Sparrow is a pirate
Mr Incredible is Superman minus the cool stuff but leaving in the underwear and the super strength, whoop dee doo,
Lone Ranger is a cowboy with a native american BFF
Lightning Mcqueen is a race car with a face
Phineas and Ferb are the Myth Busters reincarnated as polygon-headed children
Woody is a cowboy but..(wait for it) He is a toy cowboy!
Jack Skellington is kid--friendly satan
Wreck it Ralph is like Mr incredible minus the underwear on clothes
Anna and Elsa are princess's
Need I say more?

Quote: hardcoreignitor

Quote: LightSpyro13

- A Fiery Snowman? Something like that has already existed in Earthworm Jim, a boss battle named Rusty the Snowman who literally lives in a Planet similar to Hell itself and breathes fireballs despite being made of snow.

- A Rattlesnake who springs up and down, that's been done to death already (like Rattly the Rattlesnake in Donkey Kong Country 2). He also looks like Rattlesnake Jake from Rango

- Spyro the Dragon is just Spyro, albeit in a different carnation that's uglier imo

- Gill Grunt, its just a fish

- Hot Dog, its just a dog (and a ripoff of Eruptor)

- Stink Bomb, its just a Skunk

- Rip Tide, a frog-like fish (who looks like Globox from Rayman) who uses a swordfish as a sword, also been done to death already.

Sulley is a blue bear with horns and chicken pox
Jack Sparrow is a pirate
Mr Incredible is Superman minus the cool stuff but leaving in the underwear and the super strength, whoop dee doo,
Lone Ranger is a cowboy with a native american BFF
Lightning Mcqueen is a race car with a face
Phineas and Ferb are the Myth Busters reincarnated as polygon-headed children
Woody is a cowboy but..(wait for it) He is a toy cowboy!
Jack Skellington is kid--friendly satan
Wreck it Ralph is like Mr incredible minus the underwear on clothes
Anna and Elsa are princess's
Need I say more?

Sorry to everyone, but this was ! I only wish you said that Wreck-It Ralph is just the Hulk except he isn't green.

Quote: hardcoreignitor

Quote: LightSpyro13

- A Fiery Snowman? Something like that has already existed in Earthworm Jim, a boss battle named Rusty the Snowman who literally lives in a Planet similar to Hell itself and breathes fireballs despite being made of snow.

- A Rattlesnake who springs up and down, that's been done to death already (like Rattly the Rattlesnake in Donkey Kong Country 2). He also looks like Rattlesnake Jake from Rango

- Spyro the Dragon is just Spyro, albeit in a different carnation that's uglier imo

- Gill Grunt, its just a fish

- Hot Dog, its just a dog (and a ripoff of Eruptor)

- Stink Bomb, its just a Skunk

- Rip Tide, a frog-like fish (who looks like Globox from Rayman) who uses a swordfish as a sword, also been done to death already.

Sulley is a blue bear with horns and chicken pox
Jack Sparrow is a pirate
Mr Incredible is Superman minus the cool stuff but leaving in the underwear and the super strength, whoop dee doo,
Lone Ranger is a cowboy with a native american BFF
Lightning Mcqueen is a race car with a face
Phineas and Ferb are the Myth Busters reincarnated as polygon-headed children
Woody is a cowboy but..(wait for it) He is a toy cowboy!
Jack Skellington is kid--friendly satan
Wreck it Ralph is like Mr incredible minus the underwear on clothes
Anna and Elsa are princess's
Need I say more?

Nope, in fact you didn't have to say anything at all Lightning Mcqueen is more than just a talking race car: a professional rookie car who got stranded in an old town, destroyed the road, got punished for it (badly), learned about friendship, and even sacrificed his chance for victory in a race. They're concepts aren't the most original (except that Sulley doesn't look like a bear or any real animal, he's got no ears and his tail's too long) either, but In the movies that's where their charms and true awesomeness comes from. Since Skylanders didn't come from movies and are brand new, they don't really have much of either, they're personalities aren't often shown since they don't even appear in the cut scenes of the games! They do have side stories written outside, but most of them are pretty boring and identical to ones that already exist:

1. This Guy *insert name* came from a weird little island or somewhere in Skylands

2. This guy was skilled at Boxing, Harpoon Shooting, or whatever weapon or fighting style available.

3. This guy's home, him/herself, or something was raided or attacked by a legion of evil guys. (almost everyone has this part)

4. This guy defeated that legion

5. This guy was sought out by Master Eon or sought out Eon himself to gain membership as a Skylander (didn't any of them even say no or think before truly joining? I doubt it)

Only some of the stories are actually different like Spyro, Boomer, Rip Tide (sort of, he still has #3 and#4 in his), and a few others. Most of are just the same. The only time their actual personality is shown is in the Boomcast shortcuts, and only 3 out of 80 of them have short cuts right now. Maybe they would be more interesting if they did have an animated TV Show (not gonna happen), but the sad truth is that all they have are boring side stories and a few chapter books.


And even if those concepts of Disney Characters mentioned are Generics, it still doesn't change that Skylanders are just as generic if not more, especially when they haven't many roles in the games or in movies.

Having played both, I have to stay on the side of Skylanders.

I was actually quite excited to get a copy of Infinity when I did a few weeks back. A lot of people bigged up the game, and quipped that it was "better than Skylanders" (although I think a lot of these people never played Skylanders).

Now, I have little to no interest of spending hours upon hours "creating" worlds. I don't have a lot of free time so I just want to play a game. Infinity's game? Pretty tedious. It was fetch quest upon fetch quest upon fetch quest. I never really felt I was accomplishing much. The "fake voice actors" also were really off-putting. If I'm playing as a character, I want to hear that character, not a bad impersonation. I also enjoy seeing all these original characters, as opposed to established characters like Disney.

The quality of the figures, I was also disappointed with. They deliberately simplified the style and designs of the characters, but there was a lot of shoddy paint work.

I don't think Skylanders are perfect. I inspect all figures before choosing the best, when shopping for Skylanders, because there's a lot of cruddy paintwork. But for paying more for an Infinity character, I was disappointed.

I tried all of the playsets that came with the Infinity starter pack. They got progressively worse, and I ended up bundling the game back in the box and trading it in for a copy of Pokémon X.

What I like about Skylanders is that it's divided into chapters, and you go through an actual level. I'm not sure that I prefer Swap Force to earlier instalments; I never felt the need to "swap" characters except for zones with two elements, and the chapters felt far too long. But as a series, I definitely prefer Skylanders and the style of play that comes with it.

Quote: LightSpyro13

Once you do beat the game, there isn't much content unlocked other than Nightmare Mode (still too easy anyway) and Score/Time Attack modes, and the game starts to get a little boring for me just beating the same levels over and over.

According to the marketing geniuses at Activision, little kids just absolutely love doing the same things over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Eh. Its all a matter of opinion. Not everyone is going to find the same games fun. Most of us all find

Skylanders more fun or we wouldnt be on this website. I dont go on Disney Infinity

forums and get mad about them liking Disney Infinity more that would be childish. We are biased

because skylanders is what we like, therefore why we are on a Skylanders fan site.

Well, how do you expect them to prove their worth to become a Skylander? Hows this for ya?

"Even after much political success, former poor farm boy, now turned senator, Double Trouble, was very lonesome Tikiman. He'd often date some of the most beautiful women in Skylands (Even Kaos' Mother at one point), but none suited his needs. One day while deciding to whether or not to support a passing of bill on Immigration in Skylands, he decided to consult a friend over his problem.Then Double Trouble realized something, he had no friends which is why he felt so lonely, and had no idea how to get them. That night, in his Hut, Double Trouble had a solution to problem, instead of trying to get friends, why not make them? He put togather the ingredients to make a clone spell. After many of hours of blood, sweat and tears (Mostly tears) Double Trouble finally made his double which he named "Double Trouble". He was about to pat Double Trouble's head when....... it blow up! Double Trouble panicked wondering what he got wrong with the ingredients, but oddly, nothing was wrong. He rose is staff to call in another double, he poked it and it blew up as well! He said to himself "Ooga booga booga" and decided that as long as he had friends, he would never feel alone again.

A week later, Master Eon was at a pic-a-nic with Spyro, Gill Grunt and Ghost Roaster, when a double of Double Trouble came to see that was going on. Spyro took notice of the double and being the friendly and optimistic Dragon that he is, decided to introduce himself. He held out his paw and tried to pick him up. Only to meet an explosion of magic blast in his purple face. Double Trouble apologized to the dragon. Master Eon took notice of the senator Tikiman and offered him a job as a skylander, which double trouble took leaving his old job behind. Now with his new friends and fellow Skylanders, they protect Skylands from any threat that comes in their way!"

Quote: LightSpyro13

Nope, in fact you didn't have to say anything at all Lightning Mcqueen is more than just a talking race car: a professional rookie car who got stranded in an old town, destroyed the road, got punished for it (badly), learned about friendship, and even sacrificed his chance for victory in a race. They're concepts aren't the most original (except that Sulley doesn't look like a bear or any real animal, he's got no ears and his tail's too long) either, but In the movies that's where their charms and true awesomeness comes from. Since Skylanders didn't come from movies and are brand new, they don't really have much of either, they're personalities aren't often shown since they don't even appear in the cut scenes of the games! They do have side stories written outside, but most of them are pretty boring and identical to ones that already exist:

1. This Guy *insert name* came from a weird little island or somewhere in Skylands

2. This guy was skilled at Boxing, Harpoon Shooting, or whatever weapon or fighting style available.

3. This guy's home, him/herself, or something was raided or attacked by a legion of evil guys. (almost everyone has this part)

4. This guy defeated that legion

5. This guy was sought out by Master Eon or sought out Eon himself to gain membership as a Skylander (didn't any of them even say no or think before truly joining? I doubt it)

Only some of the stories are actually different like Spyro, Boomer, Rip Tide (sort of, he still has #3 and#4 in his), and a few others. Most of are just the same. The only time their actual personality is shown is in the Boomcast shortcuts, and only 3 out of 80 of them have short cuts right now. Maybe they would be more interesting if they did have an animated TV Show (not gonna happen), but the sad truth is that all they have are boring side stories and a few chapter books.


And even if those concepts of Disney Characters mentioned are Generics, it still doesn't change that Skylanders are just as generic if not more, especially when they haven't many roles in the games or in movies.

What appeals to me more isn't so much the individual back stories, but the single cohesive story you play through in the game. The Skylanders aren't so much characters as they are tools of the Portal Master / player. They are the player's extension into this game world. They may not be the MOST original, but they are original intellectual property for the game/s. Choosing which Skylanders you use as a Portal Master is the game's form of customization in a way.

I like that we see this single cohesive story unfold and all the NPCs and Skylanders fit in with this story in this world. I don't typically like games that use characters from movies. Pointing to a movie for your back story is sort of lame, imo. I more often like new, original IPs to explore. I also very much like that Skylanders is cohesive. I think Disney Infinity would be more appealing to me if they had simply taken one of their IPs, say Cars, and stayed within that world for the game. They could release around 30 figures including the familiar fan favorites but also add a bunch nobody had ever seen or heard of, new original cars with little bios like the Skylanders. This would have been way more interesting to me. Think about doing the same but with different movies / worlds / IPs. The Incredibles world with tons of new heroes and villains to collect would be pretty sweet. The point being you take one world where all the characters come from and tell a single story within that world. I just can't get past the fact that it's Cars, thrown in with Monsters, thrown in with Incredibles, Pirates, etc.. I think it's perhaps a little too ambitious if they think they can develop each of the movie's worlds to the same level they would have if they had chosen a single one to focus on.

Stop these fights allready, Infinity and Skylanders are two different games exept the portal thing

Quote:

Stop these fights allready, Infinity and Skylanders are two different games exept the portal thing smilie

Whos fighting? Theres only one person that possibly has a attitude about it. Everyone else is

keeping it opinions only. We cant just stop topics everytime somone disagrees with somone else. As

long as it stays intelligent theres nothing wrong with the topic.

Quote: GhostRoaster

Quote: LightSpyro13

Once you do beat the game, there isn't much content unlocked other than Nightmare Mode (still too easy anyway) and Score/Time Attack modes, and the game starts to get a little boring for me just beating the same levels over and over.

According to the marketing geniuses at Activision, little kids just absolutely love doing the same things over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

To be fair, Score/Time Attack mode aren't about doing the same things over and over and over and over - it's about perfecting your playstyle and excelling at the stated goal (building your combo or maximizing your speed). It's better if you have people you're competing against, but even trying to top your previous performance is fun.
I'm surprised no one has started a high-score board here yet.

Quote: samuraituretsky

Quote: LightSpyro13

Nope, in fact you didn't have to say anything at all Lightning Mcqueen is more than just a talking race car: a professional rookie car who got stranded in an old town, destroyed the road, got punished for it (badly), learned about friendship, and even sacrificed his chance for victory in a race. They're concepts aren't the most original (except that Sulley doesn't look like a bear or any real animal, he's got no ears and his tail's too long) either, but In the movies that's where their charms and true awesomeness comes from. Since Skylanders didn't come from movies and are brand new, they don't really have much of either, they're personalities aren't often shown since they don't even appear in the cut scenes of the games! They do have side stories written outside, but most of them are pretty boring and identical to ones that already exist:

1. This Guy *insert name* came from a weird little island or somewhere in Skylands

2. This guy was skilled at Boxing, Harpoon Shooting, or whatever weapon or fighting style available.

3. This guy's home, him/herself, or something was raided or attacked by a legion of evil guys. (almost everyone has this part)

4. This guy defeated that legion

5. This guy was sought out by Master Eon or sought out Eon himself to gain membership as a Skylander (didn't any of them even say no or think before truly joining? I doubt it)

Only some of the stories are actually different like Spyro, Boomer, Rip Tide (sort of, he still has #3 and#4 in his), and a few others. Most of are just the same. The only time their actual personality is shown is in the Boomcast shortcuts, and only 3 out of 80 of them have short cuts right now. Maybe they would be more interesting if they did have an animated TV Show (not gonna happen), but the sad truth is that all they have are boring side stories and a few chapter books.


And even if those concepts of Disney Characters mentioned are Generics, it still doesn't change that Skylanders are just as generic if not more, especially when they haven't many roles in the games or in movies.

What appeals to me more isn't so much the individual back stories, but the single cohesive story you play through in the game. The Skylanders aren't so much characters as they are tools of the Portal Master / player. They are the player's extension into this game world. They may not be the MOST original, but they are original intellectual property for the game/s. Choosing which Skylanders you use as a Portal Master is the game's form of customization in a way.

I like that we see this single cohesive story unfold and all the NPCs and Skylanders fit in with this story in this world. I don't typically like games that use characters from movies. Pointing to a movie for your back story is sort of lame, imo. I more often like new, original IPs to explore. I also very much like that Skylanders is cohesive. I think Disney Infinity would be more appealing to me if they had simply taken one of their IPs, say Cars, and stayed within that world for the game. They could release around 30 figures including the familiar fan favorites but also add a bunch nobody had ever seen or heard of, new original cars with little bios like the Skylanders. This would have been way more interesting to me. Think about doing the same but with different movies / worlds / IPs. The Incredibles world with tons of new heroes and villains to collect would be pretty sweet. The point being you take one world where all the characters come from and tell a single story within that world. I just can't get past the fact that it's Cars, thrown in with Monsters, thrown in with Incredibles, Pirates, etc.. I think it's perhaps a little too ambitious if they think they can develop each of the movie's worlds to the same level they would have if they had chosen a single one to focus on.

How many times must this be said? Disney passed the opportunity to have Thor and Darth Vader fighting to the death, Spider Man swinging around New York with Yoda on his back, or Hulk and Jabba the Hutt competing for best big green monster with horrible grammar, and tons more! They had Marvel and Star wars/ Kids love their Superheroes and aliens and astronauts. Why not pair em with anything else? Imagine Walle and R2-D2 solving math equations, Perry the Platapus bringing Howard the Duck on his adventures, all cool stuff.

Quote: Kevin16

Stop these fights allready, Infinity and Skylanders are two different games exept the portal thing

Nobody is fighting.

I talked about this in depth in another thread so here's the short version:

Swap Force

D.I. was very misleading with the figures and play sets. Had I known that characters like Rapunzel, Perry and Ralph were only usable in toy box mode I wouldn't have even started. It did do some things right though like the toy box mode itself is entertaining but the unlockables are far to gated for my taste and if sand boxing isn't your thing D.I. loses a lot of value. The play set levels are o.k. but don't last that long. The Cars controls sucks. Lone Ranger is fun. Don't like M.U. and Pirates is fun but repetitive. Haven't played Toy Story yet so can't comment.

I like the fact that for the most part all my Skylanders are usable in most areas (really only excluding swap zones which are less than 5% of the game). The story was fun and has a good since of continuity with the other games. When they added jumping they didn't reinvent the wheel. I am still heavily invested in D.I. and I'm not saying I hated it I just think Disney missed the mark by not having a game that brought all of their franchises together kind of Kingdom Hearts style.

Also Disney's problem with their characters is that there is no mystery on how they will perform. We know Ralph is gonna punch stuff, Sully is gonna scare and Jack Sparrow is gonna slash and shoot. When we get new Skylanders each one has a real since of being unique and bringing something different to the table. It's also fun to hunt for that new Skylanders to see if he's fun and or powerful.

D.I. and Skylanders are doing two different things. It's like expecting the same ride from a Prias and an Escalade. Yeah the both have engines and drive on four wheels but it stops there. While both are vehicles they are two different vehicles.

I have a lot of both, even have apps for both But, for me, in my situation, Skylanders is better. If my son were older and we could use the Toy Box more it'd be much closer.

However, I think DI has the potential to be far greater. The fact that it's designed for expansion gives the ability to have far far more to do.

I imagine Skylanders 4 will probably be just a little better, but DI 2 will be a great deal better.

When you consider that DI could start spitting out all of the other great IPs like Star Wars, that can change everything really quick.

@HeyItsHotDog I actually like that fake-backstory, especially the bit where "if he didn't have friends, why not make them" :x That was a clever pun.

Quote: samuraituretsky

Well, I think I'm biased because I had already invested a lot of time and money into Skylanders by the time Infinity and Swap Force came out. I did, however, give Infinity an honest try for my daughter's sake. It just isn't nearly as enjoyable to me as Skylanders.

Semi-unrelated, but since we brought up liking / not-liking the swap mechanic, I don't really like it. I wish the swap characters had not had the tops and bottoms be separate-able. I like the movement abilities and I wish they had just focused on those and kept the figures in one solid piece. I don't like how they look all mismatched when they're swapped, don't like the silliness of the idea of humanoid characters swapping torsos and legs, and I don't like the staggering number of combinations it adds for trying to sort rankings of character power levels.

It's a minor gripe for me. If it were up to me, they wouldn't have gone in that direction. It's not up to me though, obviously, and what's done is done. Still a huge fan of the games, although as of now I think Giants was the series' pinnacle. I do love me some Roller Brawl though.

^ This, besides preferring Giants. I tried Infinity and I'll finish it but I don't see myself coming back often. Great concept, but missing too much to really work and too clunky overall. Even the controls are stupidly complicated, and feel kind of unpolished. Don't get me wrong, I like the game, but there are too many aspects where it's missing things. There isn't even swimming for the toy box... The play sets are mediocre and Toy Box is fun for a while but ultimately worse than similar options for sandbox games like Minecraft and LittleBigPlanet(by the way, they don't have a ridiculous price tag to unlock more building blocks like Infinity does with Character Chests/Vaults).

And I agree with Tel that the worst crime the game commits is having the toys. There's no kind of backstory to why they're toys, besides that they're your toys that you're "imagining" the game with... But that's not even in the game, and the way almost every single toy feels the same in gameplay makes them feel like a key. There's no advantage to having toys as part of the game other than giving Disney money and the game would be a million times better without the toy integration. Skylanders needs to tweak how it integrates the toys because it is lacking right now but at least it does provide potential benefits to the experience by adding more immersion and has a point, since you can level them, upgrade them and play the games with them and they're integrated into the game lore- but in Infinity every single toy of a given character will end up exactly the same(so they don't really "feel like your toys" either), and the reason they're toys is never mentioned. I could rant about this all day because it is just what ruined the game for me, and I think without toys and with a more polished actual game without the cash grabbing then I would like Infinity tons and tons more.

Quote: Tel Prydain

Other than that, the only thing that Skylanders can learn from Infinity is how not to make a game.

I disagreed with a lot of your statements (personal opinion), but the I'm only gonna address that statement. If Activision were to play DI themselves, they could learn sooo much more than that. Not because I prefer DI, but it would make Activision more money from new customers (but pissing off veteran Portal Masters at the same time). Playing DI would give Activision the idea to lock significant content unless you buy every single character like they did before in the first 2 games, like bringing back heroic challenges or unlocking new levels. I wouldn't be surprised if they did, considering how DI has sold over 1 million starter packs right now and are continuing to grow, to the Point Activision blaming them (and Pokémon X and Y) for the decrease of Skylanders sales. If Disney could do it and get away with it, Activision could too.

And I'm sure that unless you're already a millionaire, even you, yourself would do the same thing if it meant making millions worth of mullah, who wouldn't?

Quote: Tel Prydain

To be fair, Score/Time Attack mode aren't about doing the same things over and over and over and over - it's about perfecting your playstyle and excelling at the stated goal (building your combo or maximizing your speed). It's better if you have people you're competing against, but even trying to top your previous performance is fun.
I'm surprised no one has started a high-score board here yet.

Maybe its because not everyone likes this kind of mode. And yes, they are about doing the same things over and over, Record and Score Keeping does NOT disprove it being the same thing over and over, but does add an additional reason to return to the levels you've beaten after playing the game. For me, trying to beat your friends WOULD be cool if there was Online Multipayer or Split Screen that lets you and your partner separate, but the ugly truth is that the game lacks both features. Other than that it still is the same thing as normal gameplay and adds little to no changes, just adds a record keep so you don't have to write them down yourself on a piece of paper.