darkSpyro

TEN is unironically one of the best kid friendly action games out there, don't even @ me. The combat mechanics can be surprisingly deep and are really tight. At the same time, they're simple enough to pick up and play for a young kid. Much better than ANB, which had some of the most disjointed combat mechanics I've ever played around with. Also, the atmosphere in TEN was crazy good and it has one of the best Spyro soundtracks.

DotD is weird. While it's combat mechanics are better than ANB, they're a step down from TEN due to not being quite as fast paced and responsive, at least when controlling one character. But they work in the context of its gameplay since you have two characters, and co-op brings some legitimately cool combo possibilities. Taking it more as an action-adventure game, its fun to explore and has that over the previous two games which were linear action games. Also, DotD is a really fun speedrun game due to some really fun exploits, such as what I like to call the "Dragon Catapult" (use a heavy attack while flying, and dodge cancel forward just as the attack initiates - you will be sent hurtling forward at high speed, and the game's physics allow you to actually take advantage of the momentum to get really high jumps off slopes and such), or Cynder's infinite air time trick (which isn't well known because IIRC I was actually the first to discover and document this). DotD is notably rushed and rough in some areas, but overall still holds up pretty well in spite of all that.

Ratchet & Clank 2016 was a really fun game, though I don't have much experience with the series compared to its fans so I don't know how it stacks against the other games.

I think the problem I had with the games is that to me, there was too much enemies being thrown at you and it got annoying and outright ridiculous sometimes. In other games I've experienced with good combat mechanics better than Spyro even they didn't have the amount of enemies Spyro did. I also didn't like how you couldn't revisit the worlds (also TEN made some worlds not making sense to go back to like the ship), and the games were short in general. I do know that other people liked the amount of enemies you were fighting, so this is just personal preference.

However one thing I did love about TEN was the final boss fight. Best boss fight in the trilogy and is actually on pair with favourite boss fights of mine in general.

I think the problem I had with the games is that to me, there was too much enemies being thrown at you and it got annoying and outright ridiculous sometimes. In other games I've experienced with good combat mechanics better than Spyro even they didn't have the amount of enemies Spyro did. I also didn't like how you couldn't revisit the worlds (also TEN made some worlds not making sense to go back to like the ship), and the games were short in general. I do know that other people liked the amount of enemies you were fighting, so this is just personal preference. I don't know what it is, but there is just something off about them that makes fighting apes not enjoyable to me, and it might even because Spyro himself doesn't have room for that much interesting combat and I like hitting enemies with a sword.

However one thing I did love about TEN was the final boss fight. Best boss fight in the trilogy and is actually on pair with favourite boss fights of mine in general.

I've only really played ANB and TEN, but my main problem with those games is if I wanted to play Devil May Cry, I'd go play Devil May Cry. Hell, there are better DMC clones out there than ANB/TEN. I enjoyed them for what they were back then, but as time went on, I realized I could've been playing better hack-and-slashes out there.

Quote: DarkCynder_543

I think the problem I had with the games is that to me, there was too much enemies being thrown at you and it got annoying and outright ridiculous sometimes. In other games I've experienced with good combat mechanics better than Spyro even they didn't have the amount of enemies Spyro did. I also didn't like how you couldn't revisit the worlds (also TEN made some worlds not making sense to go back to like the ship), and the games were short in general. I do know that other people liked the amount of enemies you were fighting, so this is just personal preference.

However one thing I did love about TEN was the final boss fight. Best boss fight in the trilogy and is actually on pair with favourite boss fights of mine in general.

The amount of enemies you deal with at one time is pretty tame in TEN, actually, by general action game/hack-and-slash standards of today. In part because it's a PS2 game.

I never felt unfairly overwhelmed, you always had the tools to deal with what they were throwing at you, even when the enemy count got a bit higher on occasion.

I guess, but even then Zelda's got a lot more going for it. I wouldn't say that ANB or TEN are bad, per se, but they still aren't that great either. The combat is still quite repetitive, and there are numerous other issues as well.

And if we're legitimately trying to argue "this is good for kids, so it's still good", when kids themselves generally don't have the critical thinking skills necessary to properly analyze and criticize something, then I think we're missing the point.
I loved ANB and TEN as a kid, but now, while I still like them (To an extent), I realize that there are a lot of problems with them, and there's plenty of better, similar things that can be played instead. :/

I think DOTD feels too slow and cheap on the mana sometimes. Way too much time spent meleeing and looking for crystals because I couldn't have fun with breaths, while I can screw around with crowd control quite a bit in the other two and make my own fun in combat. TEN has potential for speedrunning but I only saw like 3 in speedrun.com.

Uh... Are there any other companies we can talk about when it comes to Spyro? SL is also made by Amaze just like the handheld LoS titles so no news there.

You felt DotD was cheap with mana crystals? It gives you plenty, arguably more than the other two. IIRC there were armours that made you consume less of it or get more per crystal or something too. Also, you literally have two mana gauges because you have two characters, and both can be expanded.

TEN was where they were more scarce. A common criticism against the game is that it's too difficult, and the mana crystal shortage is one reason why it's the most challenging game in the series.

I only hope that Spyro stays with TfB and don't change the developer again. The many different developer really hurst the franchise imo.
Spyro needs a home like Sonic and Mario and I really hope TfB is the home for Spyro.

Quote: JCW555

I've only really played ANB and TEN, but my main problem with those games is if I wanted to play Devil May Cry, I'd go play Devil May Cry. Hell, there are better DMC clones out there than ANB/TEN. I enjoyed them for what they were back then, but as time went on, I realized I could've been playing better hack-and-slashes out there.

ANB/TEN aren't Devil May Cry clones. Like, at all.

DMC is the fast-paced hack-and-slash genre, popularised in Japan.

ANB/TEN are slower and your actions are more deliberate. You can get punished much more easily for screwing up. You don't even have dodge roll.

I don't want to sound like I'm encouraging the "this is the Darks Souls of Dark Souls of Dark Souls" meme, but I would say TEN/ANB is more Dark Souls in terms of how it's combat is designed. Slow and deliberate, just not to quite the degree of Dark Souls.

DotD goes closer to a DMC style, but even then, I'd compare it more to God of War.

Also, the argument of "if I wanted to play a DMC-esque game, I'd play actual DMC" is flawed, because you need derivatives in order for a genre to evolve, and also cater to sub-demographics. DMC isn't suitable for kids, so having action games that cater to kids is still valid.

Quote: XSparxX

I only hope that Spyro stays with TfB and don't change the developer again. The many different developer really hurst the franchise imo.
Spyro needs a home like Sonic and Mario and I really hope TfB is the home for Spyro.

All long-running franchises change developers. It's an unavoidable truth of the industry.

Even with Sonic, while the main series games are developed by "Sonic Team", the actual staff at Sonic Team changes quite frequently, with very few of them having an extended history with the franchise. And most of those are just producers and musicians, not the core development staff.

As an example, Sonic Unleashed has been gaining a lot of popularity in the community as one of the best made Sonic games. People often wonder why the core Sonic games haven't been as technologically impressive since, and why the level design of something like Sonic Forces was so much more simplified compared to Unleashed and Generations.

The answer lies in big shifts in Sonic Team. The producer of Sonic Unleashed actually got employed by Square Enix after finishing his work on Sonic Unleashed, and went on to help develop the Luminous Engine for FFXV. A core level designer of Unleashed/Generations actually got hired by Nintendo after Generations, IIRC.

Mario and Nintendo in general is in a similar situation, the recent surge of positive changes in Nintendo's practices came about because of a huge shake-up in staff in many areas of the company. Most notably, they are giving their younger employees a lot more producer/core development roles, while older employees have been playing supervisory roles.

Even just ignoring devs shifting around like this, these big franchises NEED multiple devs contracted to work on games if they hope to remain perpetually relevant. You simply can't have the core game's staff work on all of the spin-offs and budget titles without letting the quality of the main games suffer. For example, with the current dev cycle of mainline 3D Sonic games, it takes 2-3 years on average to make each one. They need to release other games in that time to keep the franchise relevant every year, so they contract other devs to make spin-offs and smaller games. For example, PagodaWest Games for Sonic Mania, or Sumo Digital for the Sonic & SEGA Racing games.

In an ideal world, Spyro could become a big, perpetually relevant franchise again with multiple games being developed concurrently by different developers, with possible different pillars of the franchise catering to different demographics. Sort of like how Sonic has now been distinctly split into the Classic Sonic, Modern Sonic, and Sonic Boom pillars.

...Gaul is the main villain that appears a dozen times in flashbacks, liked to make Cynder suffer, leads the cult of the ape guys with cloth masks(Shadow Wraiths), and is Malefor's top *** kisser before he got nuked by Dark Spyro. Skabb is a random villain that kidnapped Spyro out of spíte and got what he asked for by trying to stop his advance for more bloodsports. The game can't be blamed if you can't remember the plot, that isn't subjective.

They're not bad though, they're just meh - not good but don't bring down the story, they just do evil things because they like power or some ****. Bad would be like the Golem who endangered itself constantly to attack Warfang instead of not climbing the deadly tall buildings and weak structures. Or Malefor for the tacked on reason to destroy the world that never came up before.

Quote: Bionichute

Quote: Bifrost

...Gaul is the main villain that appears a dozen times in flashbacks, liked to make Cynder suffer, leads the cult of the ape guys with cloth masks(Shadow Wraiths), and is Malefor's top *** kisser before he got nuked by Dark Spyro. Skabb is a random villain that kidnapped Spyro out of spíte and got what he asked for by trying to stop his advance for more bloodsports. The game can't be blamed if you can't remember the plot, that isn't subjective.

I mean yeah, I wasn't saying that me not remembering wasn't my fault. I still think that both villains are bad for different reasons. That was mostly an unrelated thought tangent to clarify that I thought Skabb was the main villain when I wrote that and not Gaul

Would you mind explaining why you think they're bad?
Because yeah, I did kinda enjoy the LoS games and their bosses! Of course it's subjective, but I'd like to know why you don't like them, if that's okay! ( Sorry if you have explained it ... but all I can see at the moment is just you saying you don't like them x3 )

Looking back on them now, I think the old war torn land thing might be pretty generic ... as well as the main character being cast away and growing up not knowing his ansestory, but hey I thought it was cool as a kid. Most of ANB is just basically a retrieval mission to find the Guardians, and I understand how it may become monotonous to some people. But honestly, it never bothered me at all because I adored the level design. Maybe not so much the layout and gameplay, but I think the environments were absolutely beautiful, and I still think the last two levels (Concurrent Skies and Convexity) are super creative, and they always make me feel ... dread or foreboding? I'm not sure. I also did enjoy the combat and learning new powers! The slow mo was my favourite part ... and I turned it up to the max in the settings so that I'd get it every time I did an aerial combo. >.<
I really liked the villains for the game too. Cynder's story is really sad when you look deeper into it ... but really, she's just downright awesome. The boss fight was the best thing to me as a kid, haha. And I loved how Malefor was trapped in the portal at the centre of an airlock (what are these other dark and distant lands, huh??). It really built up a sense of anticipation to me as a kid.

TEN is my absolute favourite of all three. It was really dark and sombre, and the whole game just gave me a sense of absolute loneliness. I want to be able to capture that exact feeling in one of my own stories one day. Again, I really loved the level design. The Celestial Caves and Well of Souls were my favourite levels. Coincidentally, they also made me feel the loneliest. I don't remember too much about the combat, but I know they improved on moves a lot from the previous game. Looking badk at it now ... yeah, not a fan of how they changed the fury attacks. Dragon Time was ... a thing. I also think this game wasn't very clear in explaining how to progress through levels because I remember getting stuck for ages in places (remember those damned spiders you have to horn dive in the caves?). I do feel like it was just ANB with new skins and a different story, but that's thanks to the budget so I can't really blame the devs. They did the best with what they had. But really, if that shrine for Malefor the top of the mountain didn't fill you with dread, or at least make you feel something ... who are you lol.
The main bad guys were good to me as well. Skabb was interesting because he wasn't even the one in charge, he's just basically used a puppet while Scratch and Sniff are the ones who give the orders. I want to know what happened to them. Gaul was also super cool to me. I don't know or remember if they explained his motivations, but I enjoyed his character design and boss fight a lot. Admittedly, there's not much for me to talk about, but I guess I just like them for subjective reasons?

I mean, the first two instalments of the trilogy may be full of cliches, but I would have no idea. I don't play many other games or watch many other movies, so these are kinda unique to me. I do understand why people complain about the stories being a little dark and edgy just for the sake of being dark and edgy ... but really? I don't care! We can enjoy dark stories if we want! ;p

.... and then there was DotD. As a kid I loved it because it looked very beautiful to me at the time, and you could actually fly in a Spyro game whenever you wanted. Looking back at it now, the flight sucked. It was just hovering over land. And the devs seemed to put too much time into making the game look good that they didn't really focus on the gameplay and story as much as they should. Avatar is the best example of this, and a good metaphor for the whole game. Beautiful, best looking level in the whole game, and I loved how open it was! The objective and story? Absolute bull****! The village is attacked and some cheetah broke his leg in a cave up stream. Instead of picking him up and flying him back, Spyro is sent on a huge unnecessary quest around the valley to find a key ... unlock the dock ... drag a raft down to the cave ... and pick the cheetah up and put him on the raft to take him back to the village. If you were able to get him out of the cave and put him on the raft, why couldn't you carry him a few more metres to the village? And the combat in the level was annoying. Enemies would pop up out of nowhere just to be an obstacle and make the level drag out longer. It wasn't fun. I would completely skip a lot of the fights just to get it over with. Everything I said about this level can be said for the remainder of the game. Looks beautiful (but there's still problems with the visuals anyway), annoying combat, and huge unnecessary side quests when there is a clear objective. Why did we have to take out the Destroyer when we could have just gone straight to Malefor and dealt with them both? Why did we even go to the Dragon City? Why couldn't we skip the whole level by flying over the fallen building? Why couldn't we fly over the Belt of Fire?! Ugh. The game was a mess. I could go on, but I think my post has gotten too long as it is.
Malefor was horrible in my opinion. He was built up to be such an interesting villain ... but in the end he just wants to destroy the world. To cleanse it? Okay then? What about the world needs cleansing? And I kinda liked the conflict about the destiny of a purple dragon ... but that only lasted for like two seconds. There's a whole story I made up to explain what Malefor was talking about with there being many more purple dragons before him, and his motivations to cleanse the world ... but really? That's the dev's responsibility, not the fans'. The fans have been left the explain the entirety of the game because the writers did such a **** job. And the boss fight sucked. It lasted way too long, and in the end we didn't even beat him. He was defeated in a cutscene.
Yes, I hate this game. It's fun to play with my family sometimes, but it sucks and it ruined the whole story of the series.

...

WOW, sorry this got so long, I just wanted to put my two cents in on the LoS trilogy. Don't read it if it's too long ... I understand haha. And feel free to comment on any of my opinions.

lol i always thought tlos's plot was basically a darker avatar the last airbender

because like the dragons master a single element and the purple dragon masters all four (although not all of them i guess because wind apparently exists since it's cynder's element???), the purple dragon stops the bad guy, and even cynder has the same voice as katara