darkSpyro

...are the nostalgic elitist fans -__- I'm afraid that their nostalgia goggles will ruin the remake.
I hope TfB don't listen to them to much.

I agree, they don't seem to appreciate the effort that's gone into this game, or appreciate the fact that Activision have decided to return back to the series roots.

These elitists could be the death of the series once again, if the majority of them are like this, and don't support the series.

Quote: Bolt

If they won't support the remakes, how can they possibly call themselves a Spyro fan?
They have to understand that some things need to change. It's been 18-20 years now! What may have been nice on the older systems really won't hold up well on the newer ones.
They should be glad that Spyro's coming back at all.

^^^^^ that.

i meen itz compleetlee obveeus tat dis gaem wil suck! keep spyro pure! no reemaeks!

Especially when their nostalgia goggles are screwed on SO tight, they remember things completely wrong.

Like, I honestly ended up bursting out laughing when one person complained about the Crystal Dragon's horns being gold, and how it just ruined the whole idea of crystallized dragons-

-only for someone to promptly point out that the original game's crystal dragons always had gold horns X'D

Also the people complaining about Spyro being chubby, and his crest being flexible, completely forgetting that Spyro's ALWAYS been chubby (He's a baby dragon, and a kid-appealing designed one at that), and that his crest has ALWAYS been flexible (There's a whole IDLE ANIMATION showing that)

...In fact, I'm pretty sure the only time Spyro hasn't been chubby, and had his crest completely stiff was, uhh...

Well, that crest is still because it's part of Skyro's spines. You can even feel it in the toy, it's hard plastic unlike his tail and wings. Classic/LoS' crests are made of either cartilage or leather since they're way thinner and flop around with little resistance while they walk.

I don't remember AHT having a floppy crest, maybe it moves when he dies because the sudden fall, but that's not the classic trilogy so it shouldn't matter to them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

SPYRO TO PHET


SPYRO BETTA GO TO DA JIM

BUT TEH SKYBOXES!1!1!1!1!!1!1

Quote: XSparxX

BUT TEH SKYBOXES!1!1!1!1!!1!1

But seriously, what the **** is a skybox

Quote: King-Pen Krazy

Quote: XSparxX

BUT TEH SKYBOXES!1!1!1!1!!1!1

But seriously, what the **** is a skybox

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skybox_(video_games)

I've never heard that word before the Reignited Trilogy.

Idk any video game fanbase who criticized the Skybox in a game.

Keep in mind, they're called skyboxes, but they're usually cylinders, domes, or some weird shape to fit the parallax effects. Just watch anything from Boundary Break if you want to see how they work in action.

There was someone legitimately saying that TFB should just scrap all their skyboxes and slap all the old, pixelated, low rez skyboxes into the new, HD game...

No editing, or cleaning up just-

Shove them right in there.

As is.

...Like, I love the looks of the old Spyro games as much as the next fan, but...

No.

Dear LORD no.

The clash of graphic quality of styles forcefully shoved together hurts my eyes.

Quote: spyroid101

There was someone legitimately saying that TFB should just scrap all their skyboxes and slap all the old, pixelated, low rez skyboxes into the new, HD game...

No editing, or cleaning up just-

Shove them right in there.

As is.

...Like, I love the looks of the old Spyro games as much as the next fan, but...

No.

Dear LORD no.

The clash of graphic quality of styles forcefully shoved together hurts my eyes.

Reveal Spoiler

Though I suppose that's not QUITE as ridiculous as the one person complaining that the Dragon statues should have THE SAME EXACT NUMBER OF POLYGONS AS THEY DID BACK IN 1998

The only reason they want them to put the old skyboxes in is so that way they can shout

"SEE, TFB ARE BAD DEVELOPERS FOR SPYRO"

Do it like Skullgirls where you can type 'ifearchange' at the start screen to get a placeholder song in a stage(permanently, so don't try this as a joke). But put something even more embarassing as the code.

We'll have to learn to built up what the remake will be in our heads and instead learn to appreciate what it is or what it will be. The original games will be there but I don't enjoying them in a different way.

Quote: XSparxX

...are the nostalgic elitist fans -__- I'm afraid that their nostalgia goggles will ruin the remake.
I hope TfB don't listen to them to much.

I agree. You should see Reddit. It's bad on there. It's the N Sane Trilogy all over again. Just wait til they release actual gameplay. The nitpicking will get worse.

Quote: ECDT1089

Quote: XSparxX

...are the nostalgic elitist fans -__- I'm afraid that their nostalgia goggles will ruin the remake.
I hope TfB don't listen to them to much.

I agree. You should see Reddit. It's bad on there. It's the N Sane Trilogy all over again. Just wait til they release actual gameplay. The nitpicking will get worse.

It is pretty bad...

I remember last year when they first released gameplay of Hang Eight and Sewer or Later, the comments on YouTube were just asinine. I'm praying that doesn't happen with this game.

I love all these people saying huge words with video game related stuff like unreal 4 and skyboxes, yet I doubt they've even made a game in their life. These people also don't understand that game making has come a long way since the PS1 stage. We now have realistic lighting that will change how the character looks in certain light, skyboxes, etc to the point where it will definitely change how things are going to look. They're taking things with a more realistic approach cuz modern gaming can do that now.

As someone who just finished studying as a 3D Artist and will eventually work for the games and/or film industry (who knows I may even apply for Toys for Bob if they're continuing Spyro), seeing all these people's complaints honestly annoys me lol.

Like no you shouldn't change Spyro's model this far in development except for textures and animation. I mean I think you can do minor changes like moving vertices and slightly changing proportions but it's not ideal from what I've been taught since it can mess up the rig, adds history which shouldn't be present and it means you have to update the animations which have a chance of breaking. Because they only have like 5 months I'm fairly sure there are other things that should take higher priority like polishing and bug testing rather than altering character models just to satisfy. The model should be 100% complete before the rigging stage.

Also as for the hat issue, I'm not sure if the cutscenes are in game engine or maya (not sure what programs they are using ether), but if it's in the game engine then the entire model including the clothes has to be combined for animation to work in unreal fairly sure, so that means no deleting the hat unless they want to re-do the animation. If it's maya however then the hat is probably separate but made to follow the rig so that's an easy fix. Although I could be getting mixed up with Unity so I will have to re-check this, but I'm fairly positive it all has to be combined.

Quote: DarkCynder_543

I love all these people saying huge words with video game related stuff like unreal 4 and skyboxes, yet I doubt they've even made a game in their life.

As someone who just finished studying as a 3D Artist and will eventually work for the games and/or film industry (who knows I may even apply for Toys for Bob if they're continuing Spyro), seeing all these people's complaints honestly annoys me lol.

Like no you shouldn't change Spyro's model this far in development except for textures and animation. I mean I think you can do minor changes like moving vertices and slightly changing proportions but it's not ideal from what I've been taught since it can mess up the rig, adds history which shouldn't be present and it means you have to update the animations which have a chance of breaking. Because they only have like 5 months I'm fairly sure there are other things that should take higher priority like polishing and bug testing rather than altering character models just to satisfy. The model should be 100% complete before the rigging stage.

Also as for the hat issue, I'm not sure if the cutscenes are in game engine or maya (not sure what programs they are using ether), but if it's in the game engine then the entire model including the clothes has to be combined for animation to work in unreal fairly sure, so that means no deleting the hat unless they want to re-do the animation. If it's maya however then the hat is probably separate but made to follow the rig so that's an easy fix. Although I could be getting mixed up with Unity so I will have to re-check this, but I'm fairly positive it all has to be combined.

Mmmm, ultimately, it would depend on how it's made.

Or, more specifically, if there's anything left UNDER the hat.

It's common for modeler's to remove polygons that won't be seen by anyone anyway, AKA, polygons that would be under clothes.

Considering Nestor is a one-time NPC, there could very easily just be a giant hole under that hat. In which case, yeeeeah, that hat's GOTTA stay.

But if that hat's sitting on top of a complete model, then, in theory it shouldn't be to hard to just remove it, since it's a static object that doesn't have it's own joints and bones and animation frames. If nothing else, they could easily just turn the visibility of the hat polygons off.

Not that I personally think they SHOULD remove the hat, but that request at least technically isn't as unreasonable as the ones asking for Spyro and Sparx to be completely remolded from scratch XP

Yeah thats another issue. They probably would have removed polygons under that hat lol.

Another problem with the hat though is that like I said it may be combined with the rest of the mesh, so unless they want to uncombined it all, which then means they have to redo skin weights again and all the animations they have done. My knowledge on unreal is still a bit hazy though so I'm not sure if the hat can actually be separate and follow any animations when being exported into unreal. I just remember having to combine everything otherwise things just don't work. :\

Turning off the viability is probably the best method but even then, if there is no polygons under that hat that's an issue lol.

The only other community that gets this made at hats is TF2! *ba dum tss*

omg I know right. It sounds hilarious getting all angry at a hat when there are far more reasonable concerns, like the soundtrack. But instead the fans complain at the most smallest things.

Quote: Bolt

Here's some behind the scenes on the dragon models.
Can you guys tell what's going on, regarding the hats and polygons?
(You've got me intrigued about 3D modelling now)

If I had to guess, I'd say they'd be working on something along the lines of planning a Bump Map for detail.

A really basic explanation, a Bump Map is an extra layer to rendering that uses lighting to create the illusion of there being depth things like scales, weave, pores, wrinkles, cracks, all those little things, so you don't actually waste polygons modeling all those little things.

Example, in the animation program, models look like this:



All nice 'n smooth.

But after rendering with those Bump Maps attached:



TA DAAA~ Details~

Games use bump maps even more, considering they need to have less polygons on screen in order to constantly live render. I guarantee you, 98% of bricks you see in video games, are done with a Bump Map.

I just want to say this: let’s not make a similar mistake and blindly accept everything we see either, though.
Some of those complaints are downright ridiculous and just like for the N. Sane Trilogy they are made by people who obviously can’t understand the difference between a remaster and a faithful remake (which is why I hope publishers and companies will start using those words correctly from now on), but I think there are reasonable critiques to be made.

Not going to sell them as objective facts, but I don’t like how they heavily changed certain color palettes (such as Beast Maker’s World, High Caves or Stone Hill) because In my opinion they ruin the overall aesthetic of the level and make it feel too different from the source material.
Or, like, the regular Gnorcs design which look nothing like the gem thief in Artisans despite being basically the exact same model in the original games (but this is a rather small “complaint”).

The point I want to get across is being nitpicky is laughable and won’t get you anywhere, but constructive criticism can help immensely, if TfB is willing to listen.
Just look what a tweak in lighting did to Crash’s remakes, not to mention the fact we have no idea how old the video and screenshots are compared to the current build of the game.

All of that being said, I’d still want to see a proper gameplay before venturing in deeper considerations, because a game is meant to be played and not just be looked at.

Quote: Bolt

If they won't support the remakes, how can they possibly call themselves a Spyro fan?
They have to understand that some things need to change. It's been 18-20 years now! What may have been nice on the older systems really won't hold up well on the newer ones.
They should be glad that Spyro's coming back at all.

^yeah, this, definitely!

I say it again... screw the nitpickers. from what I can see, it's a vocal minority. i'm sure spyro is going to do great just like how crash did. should be nothing to worry about.

as long as they don't **** up the soundtrack, I won't convert, lol.

I have to agree about not being blindly happy about everything they do as well. Although a lot of the complaints are ridiculous, I do think some are valid concerns like the Beast Makers home world. I'm honestly not a fan of the atmosphere they went for ether since the place is meant to be far different. And I'm not a fan of the lack of purple in Magic Crafters. Other than that they are doing a good job though. I love what they did with the Artisans homeworld.


Quote: spyroid101

Quote: Bolt

Here's some behind the scenes on the dragon models.
Can you guys tell what's going on, regarding the hats and polygons?
(You've got me intrigued about 3D modelling now)

If I had to guess, I'd say they'd be working on something along the lines of planning a Bump Map for detail.

A really basic explanation, a Bump Map is an extra layer to rendering that uses lighting to create the illusion of there being depth things like scales, weave, pores, wrinkles, cracks, all those little things, so you don't actually waste polygons modeling all those little things.

Example, in the animation program, models look like this:



All nice 'n smooth.

But after rendering with those Bump Maps attached:



TA DAAA~ Details~

Games use bump maps even more, considering they need to have less polygons on screen in order to constantly live render. I guarantee you, 98% of bricks you see in video games, are done with a Bump Map.

Actually no, that's just concept art they are doing. You can use 3D models to make concept art and it's a common thing. You can tell this because they wouldn't make a bump map from a character in a t-pose since they first need to uv it all, and they are blurring the shadows to make it look painted, and that's a sketch. Also I think an eraser is being used as well.

Also bump maps is not commonly used now. Normal maps are what is commonly used. That looks like a high res model too in that image so they would be using that to bake onto a low res model to generate a normal map. Normal maps basically work the same as a bump map but use RBG against the X,Y and X axis to generate the illusion. And its not called an animation program, because animating is something completely different (also there are multiple programs).
Also I honestly don't think there would be no polygons under the hat actually because that's done moreso if they are on a huge limit. Its on a ps4 and I doubt they would be so limited. The combined mesh would be the problem here.

Quote: DarkCynder_543

I have to agree about not being blindly happy about everything they do as well. Although a lot of the complaints are ridiculous, I do think some are valid concerns like the Beast Makers home world. I'm honestly not a fan of the atmosphere they went for ether since the place is meant to be far different. And I'm not a fan of the lack of purple in Magic Crafters. Other than that they are doing a good job though. I love what they did with the Artisans homeworld.

Couldn’t agree more, I can harldy think of better renditions of Artisans’ Homeworld, Tree Tops or Toasty, they did an unbelievable job with those levels.
Also really love their take on Green Wizards, I thought the light green parts were unnecessary until I realized they had them on their original models as well.
Can’t wait to see which other details they’ll be able to make shine!

General atmospheres for some of the levels is the biggest true criticism I have so far, everything else is just questionable interpretations or pure nostalgia-driven nitpicks which I’m not going to listen to and thus write down here.
Not expecting 100% faithfulness because I don’t want it either: improvements over maniacal replications, that’s what remakes are for.

Tbh though im just glad this is actually happening.

Same, I still hardly believe it’s actually true because it’s basically one of the biggest wishes I had videogame-wise, if not the biggest.

Welcome to the forums, Skarlime!

Yeah, Misty Bog is looking weird, but that's an adjustment that isn't going to break the game, unlike Spyro's model. Asking for more mist is alright since that's an effect and the level is looking too much like a lagoon currently. That, or slight adjustments to colors are okay to suggest, but asking to change entire skyboxes or make the game duller because that's how it used to be, like some people offsite are doing, is pretty ridiculous.

Welcome Skarlime! I'm HIHD!


And TBH, I heavily doubt that we'll see many changes to appease Nitpicky fans. The game releases in like 5 months and TfB is gonna want to focus on polish and bug testing.


And I doubt Nester is gonna loose his hat. I really like it and it's likely not a separate model from the dragon himself.


Same for Sparx's legs. I think he should keep them. Literally no reason to remove them.

Sooner or later (if they play it) they will accept the changing and the complaining of them should be quieter.
Some people are terrified of change.
If they want Spyro keep alive then they should accept changes. We don't have the 90's we are in the year 2018. There are a lot of thing which must be updated to modern video game standards, not only the graphics.

Just look at so many indie games that take from older aesthetics. You can sometimes stand out like Dead Cells or Never Stop Sneakin', but sometimes you're just one in a million because of your unmemorable style, or straight up never get off the ground like Griff the Winged Lion because your aesthetic isn't popular enough. This new style for Spyro is vibrant and exciting while still keeping the old charm, which is perfect to reintroduce to people who've never played PS1 games before, or even collectathons for that matter(as seen with so many gaming journalists).

Lofty Castle is the updated level I like the most actually. I'm happy they kept the pink.

Some fans are asking TfB now to open a forum so they can give them some "advice".
They really want to destroy this game.

There's a forum right here, Chris at TFB keeps a look on it and everything. But of course, we don't shun Skylanders and LoS fans for existing, and most of us don't gatekeep.

I thought the answer would be zombies. That's something I'm afraid of.

Quote: madibart

I thought the answer would be zombies. That's something I'm afraid of.

I don't remember any in the original trilogy so you should be good. LoS and Skylanders are full of 'em, though.

Why are they always using Spyro's Adventure/Giants Spyro design to bash Skyro? He looks much better in the later games and in Academy. I always read "he has nothing to do with Skylanders, he is only a cash grab to real Spyro fans". They should get their facts straight, Spyro is the main character of Skylanders Academy and has a big part in the story of Imaginators. <__<

Because feels before reals. If they bring up Academy, it's for the butt selfie, and not the absolutery adorablr faces Spyro makes. Just look at that style comparison pic - they give Crash's Imaginators appearance but Spyro doesn't get that luxury of a good impression from a recent game.

Also, the cash grab thing was a false trivia spread by some idiots who think this is Star Fox Adventures all over again. Spyro was always in the development, he just wasn't playable at some point and was instead the quest giver.

I hope some people who arrived here seeing my abrasive posts about putting Skyro as a skin kinda understand why I got unreasonable, even if that was uncalled for. Being a Skylanders fan is not an excercise in frustration, it's a triathlon.

There's a Toys for Bob dude in this forum?!

TIL

Here's his profile


//forum.darkspyro.net/spyro/profile.php?user=15752

Is that Chris Wilson? One of the producer of TLOS?

I think he's a community manager? It's been so long I forgot if he actually said it. He's the one that told us back in Giants that S.A.B.R.I.N.A. was a mission made for a Make a Wish Foundation request.

The thing that makes this aversion to change even more frustrating is that the First Three had changes among themselves (As they should). If it was okay for Spyro 2 and 3 not to be carbon copies of Spyro 1, why is it not okay to change things here? Afterall it is not as if game is perfect and if they could be improved back then (which Insomniac did) they can still be improved now, however good they were before (and they were amazing, but not the point).