darkSpyro

While I agree with you for the most part, Drek95, to answer your question: yes. Yes it really is all I want. While I try to look after my games as best as I possibly can, software and hardware fails and I'd rather the original be kept as intact as it possibly can, and re-releasing those games physically is what I want. But again, its not realistic. It doesn't buy the devs the big bottle of Conk. Emulation has its limits, so too does re-releasing physically. Being able to buy those games (or access to them) on the PS Store great until Sony decides it's not, and shuts down the access to said things. It's a worry about an all-digital future; damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I totally understand where you're coming from, that people don't want the game but rather they want the experience of playing the game for the first time. I can recognise and separate the two mindsets but I like playing the games knowing how much I've discovered rather than being puzzled the first time playing. Perhaps a remaster/remake will be the closest thing we'll get to that nostalgia high, but it seems like a bittersweet half-way result that leaves no part of me truly satisfied. The optimist will say "well, at least part of you is satisfied". It's a half-full/half-empty kinda deal.

Having said all this, I would totally be down for an Enter the Dragonfly remaster (or remake, we're at odds with the term!). It's unanimously agreed that its problems are mostly down to time constraints and lack of experience, not to mention a polarising shift from Insomniac to whatstheirface. It's separate from the original trilogy so not to POLLUTE THE PURITY OF THE MASTER TRILOGY, and it would make a good game ruined by developer/publisher relations a great one. Problem is the amount of people who want that can be counted on a single hand. There'd be less who are willing to pay for it.

Like I say, it's one of those things where no matter what happens, I or some other thousand AND NOWHERE NEAR AS WORTHY TO BASK IN HIS GLORIOUS FLAME people will be displeased with it in some way. In the end, so long as the developers are happy and don't feel pressured by a publisher or other external influences to make a game they don't want to, I'm happy. I'm nothing if not an advocate for developers' well-being.

I mean, in a perfect world, we'd get Twinsanity and ETD remade to reach the potential they never could. But that's not what brings in the money as far as they know, as well as being scary and risky.

Quote: Bifrost

I mean, in a perfect world, we'd get Twinsanity and ETD remade to reach the potential they never could. But that's not what brings in the money as far as they know, as well as being scary and risky.

Aye, this is the point I'm making. I'm trying to find as many possible outcomes that there can be for this remaster/remake/rebottom, but none of them seem ideal to me personally. But this project isn't for me personally, it's for whoever is willing to pay for it.

On a rare positive note from yours truly, it says a lot that our fandom can be divided - where many others are just grateful for a remaster (see Ty the Tasmanian Tiger on Steam), the Spyro fandom is so large and diverse that we can discuss the potential good, bad and ugly about it. It makes things interesting. Different opinions can occur without crucifixion.... mostly. THE REST OF THE DISSENTERS ARE BURNED IN HIS RIGHTEOUS FIRE!

Quote: Bifrost

I mean, in a perfect world, we'd get Twinsanity and ETD remade to reach the potential they never could. But that's not what brings in the money as far as they know, as well as being scary and risky.

Indeed D': Its sad but true.

My main concern is the plausable Remake being unfaithful to the original trilogys art style and atmosphere. A cartoon game about a purple dragon doesn't need grass blades placed on every square inch of the levels, bloom and brightness turned all the way up, and hyperrealistic textures imo

No need for hyper realism nor blades of grass or covering every inch of the grassy floors... But I’d lie if I said I don’t want some realism.

I loved what they did with Crash, and in my opinion not doing “the same” (as in keeping the cartoony style but in a Pixar-kind of way) would be a huge wasted opportunity.
I’m sure there are ways to keep the original feeling and atmospheres of the level while improving them with the options offered by modern technical advancements.

I’ll take the Artisans World as a concrete example:
- the level already have a few blades of grass and flowers, so they’d just need to add a bit more to make the level feel more “alive”and animated and it would be more than enough to me;
- the small waterfall with the lake needs huge improvements: that doesn’t mean they should take away its bright blue coloration (maybe just tone the color down a bit at most), but it should’t look like a solid structure with some dynamic texture slapped over it;
- I’d personally add small glows coming from inside the portals, and add a bit of reflection to all metallic and glassy surfaces including level names;
- the small hedge labyrinth which houses the Dark Hollow portal could use some improvements, like having leaves pop out of the hedges and moving slightly to the wind (they nailed these details in Skylanders);
- full faith with the sky-box if the game is in V.V.’s hands, again, Skylanders shows they handle them masterfully;
- some texture having 3D effects, such as broken floor tiles or bricks;
- revisting enemies and fodder models to make them look less pointy and blocky;
- a slightly more realistic lighting system to add dynamic shadows, reflections and such (no need to go J.J. Abrams with it);
- smooth certain assets to make them look a bit more modern.

And that would be pretty much it for the general aesthetics.
They might seem a lot of changes, but they are actually quite subtle in my mind and only add up to the whole atmosphere when brought together.

If you still don’t agree with me then it’s perfectly fine, we just have different points of view, just wanting to make super clear I wouldn’t want a Spyro Unreal Engine to the Max Trilogy either.

But I love blades of grass and real water! How about for the water they make it act close to real water, color it brightly and add a cartoony sparkle effect? As for the ooze, much the same thing, act like real liquid of that thickness, add a weird color and give it an oily, slimy or bubbly surface. Forthe grassIactualy like the idea of short blades that react to Spyro walking over them with patches that do the same and also respond to wind and can be burned or even trampled if charging.

Hey, if they start making Spyro games again after this supposed remake, what direction would you want them to go? If they made new games after the remakes it seems likely they'd make a game following right after YotD, but what if the remake is Classic's final send off? What then? Personally I'd like them to carry on in the same vein as AHT or SL if they won't make more Classic style games. Just remove the overly cartoonish and fourth wall breaking parts from AHT (like Hunter mentioning save points) and it's golden.

Quote: Drek95

No need for hyper realism nor blades of grass or covering every inch of the grassy floors... But I’d lie if I said I don’t want some realism.

I loved what they did with Crash, and in my opinion not doing “the same” (as in keeping the cartoony style but in a Pixar-kind of way) would be a huge wasted opportunity.
I’m sure there are ways to keep the original feeling and atmospheres of the level while improving them with the options offered by modern technical advancements.

I’ll take the Artisans World as a concrete example:
- the level already have a few blades of grass and flowers, so they’d just need to add a bit more to make the level feel more “alive”and animated and it would be more than enough to me;
- the small waterfall with the lake needs huge improvements: that doesn’t mean they should take away its bright blue coloration (maybe just tone the color down a bit at most), but it should’t look like a solid structure with some dynamic texture slapped over it;
- I’d personally add small glows coming from inside the portals, and add a bit of reflection to all metallic and glassy surfaces including level names;
- the small hedge labyrinth which houses the Dark Hollow portal could use some improvements, like having leaves pop out of the hedges and moving slightly to the wind (they nailed these details in Skylanders);
- full faith with the sky-box if the game is in V.V.’s hands, again, Skylanders shows they handle them masterfully;
- some texture having 3D effects, such as broken floor tiles or bricks;
- revisting enemies and fodder models to make them look less pointy and blocky;
- a slightly more realistic lighting system to add dynamic shadows, reflections and such (no need to go J.J. Abrams with it);
- smooth certain assets to make them look a bit more modern.

And that would be pretty much it for the general aesthetics.
They might seem a lot of changes, but they are actually quite subtle in my mind and only add up to the whole atmosphere when brought together.

If you still don’t agree with me then it’s perfectly fine, we just have different points of view, just wanting to make super clear I wouldn’t want a Spyro Unreal Engine to the Max Trilogy either.

Oh, I definitely agree with some of your opinions. I believe it's certainly possible to translate the artstyle into the modern era, Yooka-Laylee and Crash N. Sane prove its possible to do so, and some of your ideas I genuinely think are great, I'm just low-key nervous about how the visuals will turn out.

Quote: ClassicSpyroLUV

Hey, if they start making Spyro games again after this supposed remake, what direction would you want them to go?

Throwing some ideas out here:

Use the same engine/graphics as the remake/remaster (slightly improve if necessary) and make a true 'Spyro 4'. You could take some ideas from ETD, but DON"T market it as 'what ETD should have been' as I'm sure some people would be turned off just by hearing that name.

Bear with me here, but make 'Cynder the Dragon'.
- It can introduce Cynder into the classic universe, attracting fans of LOS/Skylanders.
- That way you don't have to shoehorn her in to the Spyro remakes/remasters.
- If the game bombs, Spyro isn't tarnished, because he'd probably not even be in the game. If it succeeds, then you can have a follow-up featuring both Spyro and Cynder!
(I don't actually want this, just having fun wth the possiblilties )

All those ideas sound amazing, there's not a single one I wouldn't want to see. But the general aesthetic would still determine how well those individual things look, and that's what worries me. The aesthetic of the N. Sane Trilogy is fine for a platform video game with a mascot, but it's definitely not Crash in my opinion. Same with Spyro, but again, that doesn't mean it isn't good. So long as it looks good long after release, I'm happy.

Something I would like to see is Spyro's animations be improved. If he hits an armoured target with his horns, I'd expect the armour to dent there be some kind of vibration from his horns. If he charges a large target, have their flesh make him bounce back rather than like he just hit a solid surface. As for flames, would persistent/spreading flames be OK with folks? I'd like flames to scorch grass (and maybe shake off the flames like cacti do) and possibly spread. Hell, if it got near to an enemy maybe have them run away or step aside in fear. If it singes them, make them yelp and leap in the air! That'd be a new feature, but something I could see enjoying. I mean, Coco's phone explodes TNT crates so I'm certain VV can add some minor details of their own to Spyro.

"Ripto and Gnasty steal the dragonflies, again

I mean they never did that before, this is the first time they're stealing the dragonflies, there was never a game where gnasty got cut"

Quote: Drek95

No need for hyper realism nor blades of grass or covering every inch of the grassy floors... But I’d lie if I said I don’t want some realism.

I loved what they did with Crash, and in my opinion not doing “the same” (as in keeping the cartoony style but in a Pixar-kind of way) would be a huge wasted opportunity.
I’m sure there are ways to keep the original feeling and atmospheres of the level while improving them with the options offered by modern technical advancements.

I’ll take the Artisans World as a concrete example:
- the level already have a few blades of grass and flowers, so they’d just need to add a bit more to make the level feel more “alive”and animated and it would be more than enough to me;
- the small waterfall with the lake needs huge improvements: that doesn’t mean they should take away its bright blue coloration (maybe just tone the color down a bit at most), but it should’t look like a solid structure with some dynamic texture slapped over it;
- I’d personally add small glows coming from inside the portals, and add a bit of reflection to all metallic and glassy surfaces including level names;
- the small hedge labyrinth which houses the Dark Hollow portal could use some improvements, like having leaves pop out of the hedges and moving slightly to the wind (they nailed these details in Skylanders);
- full faith with the sky-box if the game is in V.V.’s hands, again, Skylanders shows they handle them masterfully;
- some texture having 3D effects, such as broken floor tiles or bricks;
- revisting enemies and fodder models to make them look less pointy and blocky;
- a slightly more realistic lighting system to add dynamic shadows, reflections and such (no need to go J.J. Abrams with it);
- smooth certain assets to make them look a bit more modern.

And that would be pretty much it for the general aesthetics.
They might seem a lot of changes, but they are actually quite subtle in my mind and only add up to the whole atmosphere when brought together.

If you still don’t agree with me then it’s perfectly fine, we just have different points of view, just wanting to make super clear I wouldn’t want a Spyro Unreal Engine to the Max Trilogy either.

YES, those especially! I think the less blocky models and smoother edges are a given though.

Hey what if Cynder was an Elder in the style of AHT? I liked the elemental elders from LOS, so how about instead of Elder Tomas and the rest, replace them with Ignitus, Cyrril, Terrador, and Volteer? They could also add more elemental elders like Cynder for darkness, and another for water, wind, tech maybe (they could use Drobot!), and whatever else.

There is a female elder in Shadow Legacy, Cho Lei.



Never did anything important other than upgrades, though.

^They should add her and Sensei (I forgot his real name) as dragons you can rescue. Maybe add Mrs Shoutfire (the dragon nanny from AHT) as well.

Exactly, noone really remembers the SL Elders and for good reason. Their personalities never really stood out. I only remember Tomas because he was the first, Titan was just a crotchety old man stereotype, Magnus was flamboyant, and that's all.

How should they use Ember and Flame?

Quote: alicecarp

^They should add her and Sensei (I forgot his real name) as dragons you can rescue. Maybe add Mrs Shoutfire (the dragon nanny from AHT) as well.

Sensei's real name is Ragnar, he is in the first game :U

Dunno about Mrs. Shoutfire. It might still be poor taste to reference Robin Williams to some people.

I remember a few of the AHT elders. I rather liked the Flamboyant one and the Old, weird Grandpa one.

Quote: ClassicSpyroLUV

Exactly, noone really remembers the SL Elders and for good reason. Their personalities never really stood out. I only remember Tomas because he was the first, Titan was just a crotchety old man stereotype, Magnus was flamboyant, and that's all.

I remember Titan's personality being different in both AHT and SL. In the former, he was jolly, but senile while in the latter, he was a lot less senile and had a more cranky personality that would've suited Astor more. Speaking of Astor, I think his personality stood out the least and for that, I find him the most forgettable.

Quote: Bifrost

Sensei's real name is Ragnar, he is in the first game :U

Oh yeah that's it. I always forget that name.

Quote: Bifrost

Dunno about Mrs. Shoutfire. It might still be poor taste to reference Robin Williams to some people.

True, perhaps they could reveal her first name unless it just happens to be Nanny.

I want the remaster to come out, and be successful so that we can get a new Spyro game. I fully consider Enter the Dragonfly as Spyro 4, so I don't think we're going to disregard that, or A Hero's Tail as 5 for that matter.

Might not reference either, though.

I'd like to see a game set in the classic world again, and I really hope to get one. I want the remake, but I might even want a new game more. :-)

Astor is just in a hole where you have to learn wall jump, it's pretty forgettable by design - and I barely remember anyone from SL except Ragnar being standard grumpy retired old master guy, and Tomas REALLY liking to talk about how he hates Red's guts. Then again, we're arguing personality when only a few dragons in the first game have more than 1-2 lines.

I think the most I can see them "adding," is an actual conversation to all the dragons that just go, "Thank you for releasing me." >.>

That reminds me, it always bothered me that the two dragons you re-rescue in Twilight Harbour (Cosmos and Cleetus) had different voices than when you rescue them the first times. For anyone who doesn't remember, Cosmos is the one who says "Welcome to Magic Crrrrafters..." and "Thank you for releasing me." while Cleetus says "Spyro, it's great to see you, but I gotta go." and "Be on the lookout for Gnorc Commandos." I hope they don't overlook this mistake in the remakes.

I'm pretty sure Tomas, Delbin and Magnus had their same voices when you rescue them in Gnorc Cove and Gnorc Gnexus respectively. The only one I'm not sure about is Lateef in Gnorc Cove because I can't remember where you rescue him in Dream Weavers and what he sounded like the first time.

Quote:

When being recused again in Gnorc Cove, Lateef has a different voice.

His is different, according to the wiki.

Definitely different...

Delbin I
Delbin II

Tomas I
Tomas II

Seems odd. It's like they forgot who voiced each dragon...

Even though they sound different, the second voice for Delbin still sounds like Clancy Brown to me.

I agree that they must've forgot who voiced who. Because of that, I think during the first time I ever played through Gnasty's World, I didn't realise that I was rescuing dragons from previous worlds except for Delbin, but only because Spyro says "Hey, didn't I already free you?"

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if them deciding to reuse dragons for the final level was more of a last minute decision, and they already had the voice clips done, so they just kinda matched up the closest matching voice type to the dragons (Tomas gets the whiny-ish voice, Delbin gets the gruff voice).

Like, Spyro does question it, ONCE, with his "Hey, didn't I already free you?" line, but his question kinda comes in abruptly, and never gets acknowledged at all by Delbin, and Spyro never questions any of it ever again, so I could easily see them just kinda tossing the line in there after deciding to reuse the dragons.

Not to mention, there ARE unused dragon names in the game files, as well. Five of them, in fact. While there are six dragons reused in total.

I didn’t know that some of the voice actors were Insomniac staff. No wonder Carlos and Clancy were the only ones I recognised.

Maybe it’s because of the laughable dubbing the italian version had (videogame dubbing wasn’t a big thing like it is today, back then), but I’ve never found the Elders from the first game to be that interesting in the first place.
To me they are “talking collectables” like the newborns in Year of the Dragon, which can be helpful or make you chuckle at most.

I do remember some of them because of their over-the-top personality or lines (like the one rambling about the good old days of the swamp in the Beast Makers World) but I hardly remember their names and probably couldn’t be able to associate them to their respective dragons.
That being said, I’m personally absolutely fine with that because clearly characters weren’t one of the strongest aspects of the first title: they definitely inproved from Gateway to Glimmer on.
I hope they can replace the various “thank you for releasing me” with something more elaborated, though.

A couple random thoughts I had while re-watching CrystalFissure’s Dragonfly Eggs hunt:

• I was worried about Spyro the Dragon’s enemies, but man, Gateway to Glimmer is full of colored humanoid blobs with barely any feature besides two eyes and a mouth.
  
I’m truly curious to see how they’ll deal with them, because simply giving them high-poly models is not going to do it; they’ll have to be a bit creative.

• I think I finally understood what I’d want to see changed the most in the remakes: flat textures.
  
All three games are full of wonderfully crafted textures which are meant to represent various kinds of surfaces and materials (grass, brick walls, metal, glass, rock, wood) and often 3D objects as well (tree branches, windows, bolts, chains, various garments, cracks in the walls, lights).
Those will make the difference in my eyes: if they manage to make those details pop out of their surfaces in the right way, I’ll be immensely satisfied.

but I enjoyed the flat textures imo. it gave Spyro a distinct style honestly. at the very least the flat textures in the distance could be watercolor backgrounds stylized in the same manner Skyward Sword pulled off

Maybe they could keep “thank you for releasing me“ (fixed the wrong line in my post, absolutely unforgivable) for at least one dragon, so that the meme keeps living on.
They could give the other interesting lines about their levels or the history of the Realms, that’d be neat; perhaps some scrapped dialogues and ideas might help.

Flat textures indeed gave the game a distinctive style, but I think they would look awkward in HD.
Besides, I still think those were still stylistic choices but dictated by technical limitations, they kinda made the best out of it.
So it would seem logical to see them being properly modeled in the remakes, same goes for the sky-boxes: Skylanders nailed them, in my opinion.

Another thing which came out off the top of my head (pardon me if I post so frequently, but I can hardly believe to be talking about my favorite childhood games with such a great community, remakes or not) is the theme for the collection itself.
Following the N. Sane Trilogy’s example I’d guess they could use the Artisans World theme for the intro and main menu, and then switch to the three games’ title themes according to the selected one.
Still, not sure if that song is iconic and “great” enough to play such an important role, while N. Sanity Beach’s seemed almost made for it.

What do you think?

what if like the cover of the Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy...




...the menu and box art of the Spyro cover shows Spyro charging through a portal and in the background displays the iconic levels of each game behind him?

to the left: Artisans /in the middle: Glimmer /to the right: Midnight Mountain

like with Crash this could play into the menu as well.




just touch the render up a bit and modernize it

edit: facking ninja'd!

That would be nice as well, especially since Glimmer’s theme is also Spyro 2’s title theme.
But what about the theme for the whole trilogy itself, then?

Maybe Spyro 1’s title theme, which I believe is also a unique track unlike the one used for its sequels?
Or not have any at all?

EDIT:
Rally like that pose for the remakes’ cover art, never got to see it in person since the one on the PAL edition of Year of the Dragon is different.
I’d go with Town Square/Crystal Glacier/Desert Ruins portals with their respective Homeworlds behind them, just for the sake of contrast.

As for the NPCs, they could have the Balloonist and an Elder for the first game, Elora and the Professor for the second and Hunter and Bianca for the third.
The third part of the N. Sane Trilogy’s cover is actually a depiction of the first game’s intro, but it still works with the techy theme of the last Warp Room so we could keep following that concept.
Would love if there was some room for the villains as well, maybe on the back.

Quote: Drek95

That would be nice as well, especially since Glimmer’s theme is also Spyro 2’s title theme.
But what about the theme for the whole trilogy itself, then?

Maybe Spyro 1’s title theme, which I believe is also a unique track unlike the one used for its sequels?
Or not have any at all?

I think the main theme of Spyro 1 is the theme of Spyro himself, so that would be fitting to represent the overall trilogy itself


Quote: JCW555

Here's a mock-up I did of the menu.



Edit: I misspelled background in Spyro 2. FML.

taking that a step further....

Quote: Drek95

Maybe it’s because of the laughable dubbing the italian version had (videogame dubbing wasn’t a big thing like it is today, back then), but I’ve never found the Elders from the first game to be that interesting in the first place.
To me they are “talking collectables” like the newborns in Year of the Dragon, which can be helpful or make you chuckle at most.

I do remember some of them because of their over-the-top personality or lines (like the one rambling about the good old days of the swamp in the Beast Makers World) but I hardly remember their names and probably couldn’t be able to associate them to their respective dragons.
That being said, I’m personally absolutely fine with that because clearly characters weren’t one of the strongest aspects of the first title: they definitely inproved from Gateway to Glimmer on.
I hope they can replace the various “thank you for releasing me” with something more elaborated, though.

A couple random thoughts I had while re-watching CrystalFissure’s Dragonfly Eggs hunt:

• I was worried about Spyro the Dragon’s enemies, but man, Gateway to Glimmer is full of colored humanoid blobs with barely any feature besides two eyes and a mouth.
  
I’m truly curious to see how they’ll deal with them, because simply giving them high-poly models is not going to do it; they’ll have to be a bit creative.

• I think I finally understood what I’d want to see changed the most in the remakes: flat textures.
  
All three games are full of wonderfully crafted textures which are meant to represent various kinds of surfaces and materials (grass, brick walls, metal, glass, rock, wood) and often 3D objects as well (tree branches, windows, bolts, chains, various garments, cracks in the walls, lights).
Those will make the difference in my eyes: if they manage to make those details pop out of their surfaces in the right way, I’ll be immensely satisfied.

YES! This!

Quote: Bolt

I'm rather surprised no one's posted this picture yet.


Credit to goophou for making the image.

I wouldn't mind if the games looked similar to this, to be honest.

I hate to say I disagree with you but.... I respectfully disagree with you.
-------
What if there was an emoji button added in the Spyro Remaster? it seems like a thing recent 3D Platformers are doing and I think it's cute, and I'd think it'd be interesting to see in Spyro.








And what if there were unlockable costumes? ok I'm kidding about that but after seeing Mario rock sunglasses today I'd like to see an end-game option of wearing the sunglasses from the final cutscene at the end of the first game

Quote:

I wouldn't mind if the games looked similar to this, to be honest.

That's exactly what I hope won't happen. As an experimental rendering of the Artisan's homeworld in Unreal it is rather nice. I'd happily give that a go and treat it like a hobbyist-tier title. As an official 20-year anniversary product being sold for real actual money, no way. There's so much that clashes, such as the rocks and the grass, or the staggeringly different colours used on Spyro, and I think the shadows detract from the scenery than benefit it.

I like the look of that, but it's definitely not the Spyro I want to see. I've seen quite a few projects like that and many people share my sentiments. I'm not saying you're wrong for liking it though, not one bit.

I almost forgot that Spyro wears sunglasses in the final cutscene. That could be a bragging rights reward for getting 120%.

I wonder if they'll run a competition again to design a new idle animation like they did with Crash.

Doesn't Spyro only have the idle of looking behind him, though? In fact, he has that in every game, even Skylanders(only Giants iirc), it's not like Crash where there's several.

Pretty sure he has at least another one where he licks his paw and then pulls back his crest; might have not been from the first three games, though.

I strongly dislike that hyper-realistic take to the game, but it doesn’t mean that there aren’t things I would keep: Sparx’s effect is cool and the portal’s glow is something I’d like to see, albeit toned down a bit.

Quote: Drek95

Pretty sure he has at least another one where he licks his paw and then pulls back his crest; might have not been from the first three games, though.

I strongly dislike that hyper-realistic take to the game, but it doesn’t mean that there aren’t things I would keep: Sparx’s effect is cool and the portal’s glow is something I’d like to see, albeit toned down a bit.

Yeah, he has the grooming animation in all three games. I wouldn't say no to more idle animations however.