darkSpyro

Spy Rise actually made more sense with the theme, I think.

Grimmy's out. I don't really dislike his...admittedly comical design as much as other people do, seeing as he makes me laugh whenever I put him on the Portal, but I do prefer these concepts more. Pretty sure everyone would've liked these. Looks a bit like how a Grim Reaper should. Though Creeper shall always be my favorite for just making me smile. The lil' guy's pretty rad if you ask me. It's a weird thing to say, but kinda thought we would've had a plague doctor Skylander by now...

[EDIT: Looks like someone got in trouble for posting these someplace else on DS? And the page got taken down? I don't remember that happening recently, but that's what've read. Then again, I haven't been online much. If that's the case, this topic could go bye-bye. I'll just wait and see...and hoard every scan of Strata I can find.)

I,on the other hand,absolutely hate his design because he's everything wrong with Swap Force's lineup - same body shape, stubby legs and giant arms, weird outfit(seriously he's half-naked) and dreamworks grin that barely makes sense. I'm only sadder to know he used to look varied and not creepy(in a bad way).

The Instagram is still going and Acti's been keeping an eye on them though, even retweeted some sketches the other day. They're probably only wary of the bigger stuff.

Hehe, I know your hatred for him already, Bifrost. Been lurking long enough. I just don't find him as bad as Countdown. He always bugged me since launch. Maybe it's because he looks different from all the other cut-outs...? I really just think the whole bomb-with-a-face thing they went with is kinda eerie. Like they tried to go with the same Trigg, Pop, and Food body shape and just slapped things onto it. I'm starting to wonder what he went through during development.

...now where are the rest of my Swappies? Hoping they come out before Acti homes down.

[EDIT: Really? Oh, that's good.]

Countdown crosses the line to the point they seem to acknowledge how family unfriendly it is, so I kinda have a small thumbs up for them for somehow passing a chronic headache(or aneurism?!ok if that was the intention maybe I shouldn't be too supporting of that) mechanic. Grim Creeper just has Ignitor's mechanics and not much else,so I have even less reason to forgive the design.

Well,at least Doom Stone and Rubble Rouser already had their sketches revealed when the Strata drama started; though I don't remember the latter I know Doom Stone used to be a rock snake lady.

Quote: Bifrost

Countdown crosses the line to the point they seem to acknowledge how family unfriendly it is, so I kinda have a small thumbs up for them for somehow passing a chronic headache(or aneurism?!ok if that was the intention maybe I shouldn't be too supporting of that) mechanic. Grim Creeper just has Ignitor's mechanics and not much else,so I have even less reason to forgive the design.

Well,at least Doom Stone and Rubble Rouser already had their sketches revealed when the Strata drama started; though I don't remember the latter I know Doom Stone used to be a rock snake lady.

I'm pretty sure everyone knows I love Countdown. I adore his design.

As for GC, I really like his design but the prototypes are totally better.

Also I doubt DS was gonna be a snake lady. Its pre7tty clear the Swappers were dudes from the get go.

Well, from the scans that are long gone,he definately looked like a lady in that sketch :U

Oh good Eon...

I really can't find a way to see the images you are all talking about but I was (un)lucky enough to see early sketches for Rattle Shake, Punk Shock, Doom Stone and Wash Buckler and I recently stumbled across some Scratch's designs... They really went for the most generic and "bland" designs (at least for those), didn't they...?

Rattle Shake looked perfectly Undead-ish at a certain point and kinda Ghost Roaster-like scary... Now he looks like he fits Earth more than his actual Element.

Doom Stone... No words.
I sincerely don't know how they could have gone from stone gorgon-like snake to stereotypical DreamWorks hero...

Scratch looked like an actual cat.
I think this says enough.

Punk Shock and Wash Buckler did look a bit more original, especially the latter, but I'm happy with their final design.

Oh, yeah, also found an early Bumble Blast (I think) sketch which looked nothing like his final form.

They seriously improved with SuperChargers (well... Mostly) but I'm sincerely starting to think they went with revamps because they couldn't find other good concepts for more original Skylanders.
Time will tell, I guess.

EDIT: oh, forgot about Trap Shadow.
Let's just say we should be glad for what he became...

Bumble Groot is an early design for him,yeah.

I obviously won't link directly to the page,but I've been able to find it by trying to see recent pictures of Strata(which,btw,does anyone know why it's the book's name? Art of Swap Force is a surname but no idea what Strata means). Should be big enough of a hint.

Quote: Drek95

Oh good Eon...

I really can't find a way to see the images you are all talking about but I was (un)lucky enough to see early sketches for Rattle Shake, Punk Shock, Doom Stone and Wash Buckler and I recently stumbled across some Scratch's designs... They really went for the most generic and "bland" designs (at least for those), didn't they...?

Rattle Shake looked perfectly Undead-ish at a certain point and kinda Ghost Roaster-like scary... Now he looks like he fits Earth more than his actual Element.

Doom Stone... No words.
I sincerely don't know how they could have gone from stone gorgon-like snake to stereotypical DreamWorks hero...

Scratch looked like an actual cat.
I think this says enough.

Punk Shock and Wash Buckler did look a bit more original, especially the latter, but I'm happy with their final design.

Oh, yeah, also found an early Bumble Blast (I think) sketch which looked nothing like his final form.

They seriously improved with SuperChargers (well... Mostly) but I'm sincerely starting to think they went with revamps because they couldn't find other good concepts for more original Skylanders.
Time will tell, I guess.

EDIT: oh, forgot about Trap Shadow.
Let's just say we should be glad for what he became...

I doubt that with the amazing unused designs, I'm sure they could have thought of a lot more to make a SF or TT sized cast, but didn't for reasons.

I certainly hope so.

Oh, and, yes I was able to find all the concepts (except for Rubble Rouser) right after posting that!

Most of them look really good (especially Grim Creeper) but Spy Rise particularly makes me think they didn't have swappability in mind back then or that at least he didn't start out as a Swapper.

I also kinda see a bit of Fiesta in one of his early sketches.

Oh and, is that Magic monkey a really early version of Hoot Loop? :/

Quote: Drek95

oh, forgot about Trap Shadow.
Let's just say we should be glad for what he became...

Most definitely. Didn't look like he could even move at all. Might just be me exagerrating, but he looked...awful. Quite comical. He really was just all over the place, like Magna's old design. Don't know what they were going for with both of them. I am satisfied with my indisntct species of a noseless, sabertooth cat and my magnet-horned Swaplanders. Still very, very upset about Freeze Blade, though. I won't let that down.

I'm prrrreeety sure Magic Monkey was the original concept for Hoot Loop, yes. Rubble Rouser has been lost, I'm afriad. I do remember that one scan shown that he was either going to be an anthromophic gopher or ant. Our neighbors at the Ghost Roaster forums kept a hold of a few, but that page was taken down.

[EDIT: A phantom gave me a few goodies a little while back. I now have a few more pieces of Strata to savor. Although I do believe these showed up during the time of the whole 'destroy all remnants of this book' time of the forum, so everyone might've already seen them. Rubble is out there, just as I remembered him. Menacing Fire Viper, too.]

Menacing Fire Viper is on the wiki iirc, possibly because the design partially carried over to its MegaBlok figure so it's not exactly developer secret.

I couldn't find the older Fire Viper the last time I was up there desperately looking for it. Maybe it's in plain sight and I'm just missing it or something.

Ghastly UNDEAD Rattle Shake is now public. Though I've already seen him already and I've sent a wider shot of the other designs out to all who asked. Lookit dem guns. I kinda like the design with him squirming out from the eye socket of the base.

Holy crap it looks so good. I'm okay with Rattle Shake,but GOSH DARN that first design is more than amazing.

Between this and wasting Dragon Hunter's design in Superchargers for just racing,it feels like the character designer for VV actually can't tell a good one e_e

Quote: BlueFox

Though I've already seen him already and I've sent a wider shot of the other designs out to all who asked.

If it's not too much, could you do the same for me?

Edit: Wow, Rattle Shake looks beastly and actually undead. I would have liked to see something more along those lines. Although, I am happy with what we got.

Welp, Boom Jet pretty much stayed the same. Indistinct mammalian humanoid that looks like a fuzzy oddball. Though he looks a bit Mabu-esque in the third picture. Too many types of Mabu, so I'll just go with the...Flynn-like type. And appears as what they were trying to go for. Never made it to be.
Quote:

"Boom Jet totally should've been Flynn's brother."

Why not, Mr. Russo? Not that I would've preferred that. I would've went for a sugar glider or some sort of squirrel. Looks as if a bit of the same Flynn-thought process passed onto Thrillipede, though Thrill most definitely isn't blood-related to a Mabu. I think he was involved in his backstory...?
[EDIT: OHHHH. Silly me. And to think I love the Swappers to death. Flynn being Boom's brother wouldn't even make sense. Perhaps a long lost relative from one-hundred years ago.]

"THIS NEW CHARACTER SHOULD TOTALLY BE THIS EXISTING CHARACTER'S SIBLING!"

Said the fanfiction writer grasping for straws.
Serious,they already did a HUGE stretch to make Dive-Clops be related to a 10k year old Skylander and it still sounds stupid, this is just bad writing. People can look similar and not be related, leave the fan theories to the fans.

On the design,meh then,meh now.

Quote: Bifrost

"THIS NEW CHARACTER SHOULD TOTALLY BE THIS EXISTING CHARACTER'S SIBLING!"

Said the fanfiction writer grasping for straws.
Serious,they already did a HUGE stretch to make Dive-Clops be related to a 10k year old Skylander and it still sounds stupid, this is just bad writing. People can look similar and not be related, leave the fan theories to the fans.

On the design,meh then,meh now.

I agree with you on both statements. Boom Jet's design just didn't change much during the process from what I see.

Quote: Bifrost

"THIS NEW CHARACTER SHOULD TOTALLY BE THIS EXISTING CHARACTER'S SIBLING!"

Said the fanfiction writer grasping for straws.
Serious,they already did a HUGE stretch to make Dive-Clops be related to a 10k year old Skylander and it still sounds stupid, this is just bad writing. People can look similar and not be related, leave the fan theories to the fans.

On the design,meh then,meh now.

Actually, Dive Clops is from the past, but was teleported into the future by the Whirlpools of Destiny.

I know about the backstory,but they clearly shoved that in just so it'd make sense. The whole part of the text is completely different in tone.

Anyone notice that Baron Von Shellshock was in one of the pictures? Was he originally meant to be a Skylander?

Also, that guy with the fish hand looks awesome. Love him!

Quote: Chompy-King257

Anyone notice that Baron Von Shellshock was in one of the pictures? Was he originally meant to be a Skylander?

Also, that guy with the fish hand looks awesome. Love him!

That's Riptide. The Baron wasn't meant to be a Skylander, but I don't know for certain why they printed him out. It could have been for testing or just for fun.

Quote: Bifrost

Holy crap it looks so good. I'm okay with Rattle Shake,but GOSH DARN that first design is more than amazing.

Between this and wasting Dragon Hunter's design in Superchargers for just racing,it feels like the character designer for VV actually can't tell a good one e_e

I think they do but the suits screw it up.

Let me post here a consideration I made in another thread.
I feel it belongs here more.

Another difference I noticed is how TfB and V.V. handle their creative process.

Recent SWAP Force's concept art leaks show they really went through a lot of iterations for most of the characters and while they still kept their basic "feel", many Skylanders changed a lot to the point they were almost unrecognizable.
TfB's concept arts instead show they clearly have a precise idea of how a character will look at the end along the basic theme: looking at Gill Grunt, Ignitor, Boomer, Chopper, Food Fight or Ghost Roaster early forms you can immediately recognize them (there are exceptions like Zap).

Some early SWAP Force sketches make it really hard to tell that (particularly Bumble Blast, Rip Tide and Doom Stone), and that's often rather difficult most of the time.

It's almost like TfB starts with a very clear idea in mind and simply keep tweaking it while V.V. prefers to experiment and sketch a lot more before deciding a final design.

Quote: Drek95

Let me post here a consideration I made in another thread.
I feel it belongs here more.

Another difference I noticed is how TfB and V.V. handle their creative process.

Recent SWAP Force's concept art leaks show they really went through a lot of iterations for most of the characters and while they still kept their basic "feel", many Skylanders changed a lot to the point they were almost unrecognizable.
TfB's concept arts instead show they clearly have a precise idea of how a character will look at the end along the basic theme: looking at Gill Grunt, Ignitor, Boomer, Chopper, Food Fight or Ghost Roaster early forms you can immediately recognize them (there are exceptions like Zap).

Some early SWAP Force sketches make it really hard to tell that (particularly Bumble Blast, Rip Tide and Doom Stone), and that's often rather difficult most of the time.

It's almost like TfB starts with a very clear idea in mind and simply keep tweaking it while V.V. prefers to experiment and sketch a lot more before deciding a final design.

Not sure which one is better though. hey both sound efficient and very very fun.

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

Quote: Drek95

Let me post here a consideration I made in another thread.
I feel it belongs here more.

Another difference I noticed is how TfB and V.V. handle their creative process.

Recent SWAP Force's concept art leaks show they really went through a lot of iterations for most of the characters and while they still kept their basic "feel", many Skylanders changed a lot to the point they were almost unrecognizable.
TfB's concept arts instead show they clearly have a precise idea of how a character will look at the end along the basic theme: looking at Gill Grunt, Ignitor, Boomer, Chopper, Food Fight or Ghost Roaster early forms you can immediately recognize them (there are exceptions like Zap).

Some early SWAP Force sketches make it really hard to tell that (particularly Bumble Blast, Rip Tide and Doom Stone), and that's often rather difficult most of the time.

It's almost like TfB starts with a very clear idea in mind and simply keep tweaking it while V.V. prefers to experiment and sketch a lot more before deciding a final design.

Not sure which one is better though. hey both sound efficient and very very fun.

Sure, it was just a consideration.
They both work fine.

Zap was a VERY special exception, as I-Wei described,he couldn't bring himself to revamp Cyclops Slime one more time and had to mercy kill the design.

But really,VV's method sounds good on the surface,but it's a big mess in my eyes. Throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks is good when you're in prototype phase,but they clearly do this well into character development, with the gimmick very much in mind. As the results show,they went with such drastic changes the character either loses what made it look good in the first place or just feels lazily finished.
Focus is what makes character design. You have to show the viewer exactly what you want them to see - from archetype to personality - and you have to work around that to get it in the first place. Sure,it's tedious, but looking back so much crap I prototype-designed for the secret game project just looks stupid compared to the final branch because what I tirelessly worked on was polished to convey the message to its extreme.

I was able to get my hands on a signed copy of Strata. Before anyone asks I AM NOT SHARING PICTURES. VV/Acti have been very strict in the past about concept art coming out and I'm not going to get in any trouble, so you WILL NOT see anything coming from me.

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

I was able to get my hands on a signed copy of Strata. Before anyone asks I AM NOT SHARING PICTURES. VV/Acti have been very strict in the past about concept art coming out and I'm not going to get in any trouble, so you WILL NOT see anything coming from me.

Who is Strata again? The one with the fish hand?

Strata is the Art of Swap Force book.

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

I was able to get my hands on a signed copy of Strata. Before anyone asks I AM NOT SHARING PICTURES. VV/Acti have been very strict in the past about concept art coming out and I'm not going to get in any trouble, so you WILL NOT see anything coming from me.

Congrats! If you don't mind me asking, was it from Ebay? Besides recieving it from VV themselves or an employee friend, that's the only way I've seen people get it.

Quote: BlueFox

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

I was able to get my hands on a signed copy of Strata. Before anyone asks I AM NOT SHARING PICTURES. VV/Acti have been very strict in the past about concept art coming out and I'm not going to get in any trouble, so you WILL NOT see anything coming from me.

Congrats! If you don't mind me asking, was it from Ebay? Besides recieving it from VV themselves or an employee friend, that's the only way I've seen people get it.

It was indeed ebay. It was pure luck that I found it. I looked it up out of curiosity and found it for under a hundred bucks.I was also the only one to bid on it.

Well,congrats, and we won't insist, especially since if no one else said it,there probably aren't any sketches hinting towards future games and you shouldn't risk any actions from Acti by sharing SF concept art.

Wow, Freeze Blade, they much have gotten a tad lazy with his model. In the art book, there's a drawing one of his older designs that is nearly EXACT from his official one, but it has a tail and snout. Also his Chakram is attached to a rope.


WOULD IT HAVE BEEN REALLY THAT HARD TO ADD THE TAIL AND SNOUT VV?

I love Freeze Blade but go-lly

As most other older desgins proved,yes, it would've been too hard for them.

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

WOULD IT HAVE BEEN REALLY THAT HARD TO ADD THE TAIL AND SNOUT VV?

Yeeah, I'm a little confused about this whole... hyper-realism thing. Was there no kid who questioned why a cat didn't have a snout, whiskers, or a tail? No one? I mean, that'd just be a minor nitpick for me, but seeing as we have boxing vampires and dragon hybrids, anything can happen...right? Then why'd they even care about Stormblade if they have noseless mammals and Dreamworks' Antz-esque scarabs without manibles under their belt?

VV, I love you, but you act strange at times.

Anyone notice that VV has so far been the only skylanders company to add things to the bases. Ex. Swap force had swap symbols and superchargers had engines. We can sense this happening again in the future.

TFB was more subtle. Giants had well, gigantic bases with more details and sometimes gradient, TT had more unconventional shapes like Tread Head's being a rectangle or the trap masters having straighter bases instead of circles.

Yeah, we can pretty much say V.V. really doesn't know the meaning of "subtle" whether we are talking about good or bad features.

At least SWAP Force bases had some purpose... Engines have a lore motivation but really don't do anything outside of that.
Unless you could sincerely tell me you wouldn't recognize a SuperCharger's Element without its logo.

Hope they'll come back to more traditional designs for Skylanders 7.

The Swap Symbols looks pretty good to me. Nothing major and flows well with the bases especially water.

So, uh, stuff happened after I heard these things were online again. It's a Christmas gift so I was only able to skim, but y'know, there's a ton of stuff in here. It's quite heavy! If you ever come across it, I definitely recommend giving it a look. That is, if VV/Acti don't terminate all traces of these ever being sold...and don't terminate anyone who shares the good word of its majesty. Here's what stuck out to me the most:

Skylanders: SWAP Force was originally called Skylanders: Shapeshifters. At the start of the book, I'm treated to a "Default" fishgirl...who turns into a "Shifted" beefy fishgirl with wings and a skull-hand, then to a pink "personalized color" fishgirl who has the body of a kangaroo. Ostrich-bodied, ram-bodied, bee-bodied. Other Skylanders like Trigger Happy and Stump Smash looked to be able to fuse with these guys, too. Fusions have obviously been talked about. I suppose you could also choose the colors of your creations.

Another storyboard shows one idea had you assemble the character, jam a gimmicky-tiny-trinket into their chests, and have them turn into different critters. All looked to be quadruped.

Mesmeralda had a centipede-esque body, basically like that of Hardscrabble from Monsters University. Star Strike involved the use of scrolls. Shields, scroll-nados, and sending out magical designs, most notably a glowy eagle head. Also...unhooded Star? Rip Tide was at his best with the fishhand. Precursor-Rip got a whole page to himself; expressions, poses, and so on. It looks as if he was going to be one of those flagship characters, along with Aftershock and some amphibious Stormblade/Free Ranger. Fishhand might've been given a bit of personality, too; a few sketches show them interacting with each other in the cutest of ways. Grim Creeper used to have scissors. Some of his older designs scream crazed ghost hill-billy, but I'm sure it's just me.

Night Shift had a bit more bat to him, but nothing much changed. Same ol' grumpygrumps with the same ol' scowl! But those blood-drenched fangs from the commercials stayed on a few of the concepts. Stink Bomb once looked scientifically accurate. He did always have somewhat of a TMNT vibe to him, though. Looked a lot like someone you'd see go against them. One of his designs even went for a duck bill. It appears as if the sound designers may have loved him, as one of the quotes says everyone at VV would have plenty of intensive talks about how his bottom half would sound in game. Just wished they focused that much on picking and choosing characters. Hoot Loop looked to be a bit of a lovechild between a Jersey Devil and a Djinn. Not too sure what monster they were going for. Mishmash of a Ahuizotl without the tailhand and a bit of goat? I don't even know, but it looked pretty unique. Fire Kraken had a traditional Eastern Dragon mustache. Like Night Shift, he stayed mostly the same. Mole Rubble is best Rubble. Bumble Blast looked like a honey-coated Neanderthal, wielding a beehive club. Another had him with four arms and tomahawks.

Quote:

We put a lot of effort into fleshing out our creatures...one of our original gameplay mechanics allowed the player to learn special powers by earning their trust.



Last but not least, there's an unused Spyro render. Looks different from TFB's design. Bit too realistic, as was a Gillman render they did during development, but it was surely interesting. VV Spyro is what I want to share the most. Hopefully it'll somehow get put online one day.

Quote:

Early on I had the opportunity to animate this Spyro concept in one of our beautiful prototype levels. It was the most excited I'd felt animating in years.

There'd be a Spyro redesign like the Chompies? Wow,we dodged the mother of bullets then. As much as the TFB one is flawed, nothing would cause fandom split more than butchering that even further.

I'm soooooo hoping the majority of those designs will be used in future games.
They sound awesome!

And yeah, all this talking about "how much V.V. cares for small details like the sound of Stink Bomb's farts or the facial expressions of Rip Tide's prototypes" makes me really wonder why they didn't took more time choosing their designs as well...
Aaaaah, good old Vicarious Visions...

Quote: Bifrost

There'd be a Spyro redesign like the Chompies? Wow,we dodged the mother of bullets then. As much as the TFB one is flawed, nothing would cause fandom split more than butchering that even further.

It wasn't going to be his in game design. It was more of a test concept.

I saw the image of the Spyro online in a behance.net gallery ages ago. The artist who worked on Swap Force (also has logos of the old title Skylanders: Shapeshifters) posted it there.

https://www.behance.net/galler...nders-Swapforce

Were they actually trying to change the logo font as well? At least I'm thankful that Spyro wasn't ever going to show up,but darn those pictures have nothing to do with the game's aesthetics, this feels like a liberal arts project.

Uuuuugh... Ok.
I'll probably never complain about a V.V.'s final design that much from now on.

Anyway, looking at how "Shapeshifters" was written makes me think Activision really gave them a lot of space this time, compared to SWAP Force.
Back then they were apparently restricted and weren't able to change basic aspects of the game (such as bases, title style and so on)... But with SuperChargers they most likely said "The game is yours, do whatever you want with it".

Or maybe those were just early tests and the regular title style was choosen shortly after.
Knowing V.V. I doubt that wasn't the case but, who knows?

Where was this shown? Knowing VVit is probably unable to be shown to people.

The link Aura24 posted shows VV Spyro, but a few more shots of him were in Strata. So, yeah, unable to public.
Flynn may have also gotten the same treatment, but I think it was just Bellio, Gallerani, Phillips and co. playing around with funny expressions and what not. It's just that his chin seemed enlarged. I don't think they were actually going to do something so drastic; they even had a quote about how much they wanted to keep the legacy of his 'wide, mouth grin that everyone has come to love'.

A few other notes, as I was mainly just focusing on characters for my previous post:
K-bots, like the infamous Mineminer, had different names; only Toxitron and Minobyte were the ones that were showcased. Strata refers to the layout they created for SF, 'to help the player feel as if they were traveling through a universe instead of hopping around levels'. The Strata itself contains the Core, Rivenrock, the Barrens, Wildwoods, Waterwalk, Verdant, Frost Guard, Coldburn, and the Outlands. Basically jungles, deserts, tundras, and Darkness. That's how it all translated in game, at least; they refer to them as Rivenrock/Wildwoods/ etc. levels instead of how they are now. Some art of Woodburrow also shows that one of the Elementals was supposed to be Evilized, his statue covered in Petrified Darkness. David A. Rodriguez was the culprit behind Mesmeralda; he asked for a Broadway style musical number. Dragonoid Rufus. That is all I have to say about that.

Quote:

Being too scary is a fine line to walk with a kid's game. You want the kid to feel some tension, but you don't want them to walk away crying.

This, along with some of the Evilized creatures, a few of the things they mentioned about crude humor in early interviews, and Jeff horsing around with some dark comedy about three-part Swappers, makes me feel as if they wanted to do something...different with this game. Unless they were talking of the time they popped off the heads of Skylanders and eagerly showed their kid testers.