darkSpyro

I'm hoping to get a good discussion here. Lately, I've found that Swap Force has been going back onto the shelf more often and I've been returning to Giants. I've made a post about this in some other thread before, but I can't since remember what one it was in. So I'd like to say this here and get some thoughts and opinions. I honestly want to see who else is like minded, or who out there can help turn my thoughts around about the new game.

For starters, I will point out the positives of Swap Force because there are a good number of them. This game looks gorgeous! Graphics are sharp and the levels can truly make you want to stop and stare at some points. I'm also a big fan of the depth that goes into each level. Sure it can take a while to finish them, but isn't that the point? They made collectables and items such a pain to find at times, and despite the massive amount of colorful language that is often employed during the hunt for some items, the time spent is enjoyable. Let's not forget being able to look at the rank and scores of other portal masters on your friends list. Granted, I have the 360 and the only people I have on my list are my brother in law and nephew (total side note, if anyone wants to exchange 360 gamer tags to compare scores, PM me). I have a nice feud going with my brother in law as we trade high scores on bonus missions and arenas.

However, there are a few problems that bother me and then there's one big problem that almost ruins it for me.

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As far as Skylanders is concerned, I was very happy with the balance they made in Giants. Adding in items that were tricky to find was a good move, I applaud SF for expanding that further. However, the absolute pain that leveling up can be in this new game, as well as some of those ridiculous quests for some elements/characters are just unreal. I think they tried to make things more tricky to keep you playing, but went way overboard.

Some of us have over a hundred characters I'm sure. I haven't taken stock of my collection, but I'm sure it's an unnecessary number of plastic figures on my shelf. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is with those ridiculous quests (take that insane lock picking for techs or the undead spell punks for life characters) having to do all those characters... I cringe. Does anyone else feel this way or is it just me?

Giants made leveling up and quests simpler to get once you put the effort into beating the game, those with massive collections weren't looking at an insane task ahead of them. When you finished with that, you still had Heroics to increase the usefulness of your character (and I need not restate my disdain for having lost heroics). So again, does anyone else feel this way or is it just me?

That was a post I made elsewhere and I hope some of you are willing to respond to. Those are my little problems with this game. In the past, I've mentioned that what really hurts this game for me is how in Giants your effort was rewarded. Completing accolades gave you more of an XP boost, again helping to level up that giant shelf of characters quicker. Thus far, the best day to do any leveling up is on Sunday. But what about the Heroics? I know some of you... or probably a lot of you hated doing them. I enjoyed them for two reasons: Firstly, there were just some days at work that all I wanted to do was come home to do something mindless. Heroics had that word written all over them. You learn the patterns and it can become easy stuff. The main reason I loved heroics was for the ability to upgrade my character beyond the ability of someone who just hated heroics and wouldn't do them.

Total ADD sidebar here, but Giants are all but useless now! No speed boost from heroics, plus ruining some of their attacks have brought them down a great deal in useability.

Anyway, as I said I'm hoping for some open and polite discussion here. I'm hoping to see if anyone else has the same thoughts and feelings that I do, or if anyone here can help put Swap Force in a better perspective for me.

Systematically going through your comments, my two cents...obviously different strokes for different folks apply...

1. Graphics are a definite plus. I don't think anyone's going to complain about this.
2. The added dares in the game are a great plus and they've placed them into some interesting locations which both add game time but also infuriate the gamer. Overall I think they did a great job here.
3. Heroics--either you love it or hate it. I used them as a training ground for me to get used to my skylander as well as to improve on their abilities in game -- as well as help on the upgrading process. I'm a bit numb on the existing heroics but liked a way to upgrade MY UNIQUE skylander....something that is missing in Swap Force. I don't like wearing hats--and feels cheap compared to earning it on each figure.
4. Quests were part of my heroics process which all helped contribute to my "toys to life" upgrade process. They were neither very tough, except for some of the quests that required me to almost complete a level (Magic--puzzle power I believe) or re-play a heroic to kill 50 mages...

In Swap Force, my training ground is the battle field or the bonus missions...the dummies are a poor substitute. The forced viewing of the clips to play a level is wearing me down...From what I understand...the bonus missions helps with many quests and the upgrade process as well.

For many of the quests....there appears to be specific levels to accomplish them....It's important (in my opinion)...to get up to speed on the various skylander quests FIRST and then SEE the opportunity to complete them during the playthrough. Unfortunately...I suspect many won't do that and then will have to replay the levels to see the opportunities. I'm not far enough in the game to say if Quests are a total PITA or not.

For example...since I know I cannot complete Elemental outside of story mode...I feel COMPELLED to use a skylander of a favored element. If I see a life spell punk I spam attacks and get every skylander I have of that element completed with that quest. They give you a reason to listen to Eon now, I guess.

I know Mudwater Hollow has a ton of hot dogs...and I know one of Hot Dog's quest is to eat Hot Dogs...but I was too lazy to put him in.

I have started a Quests thread to help us through on these...but I'm not entirely sure I will go through my entire library of plastic like I did with Heroics. The consistent problem that the developers KEEP MISSING (in my opinion) is that they don't bring forward the upgrades related to completing heroics through the next game. It wasn't as bad with Giants since Heroics were intact but the paltry gains you get from completing heroics in Swap Force is nothing.

I liked the value of the Quests in Swap Force as it is material---max health increases...as opposed to hats in Giants.

Graphics and leaderboards make no game,however :I
I listed my reasons for disliking this game several times before,so I'm not going to list them again and kill another thread. However,one point that the OP and GhostRoaster made pretty much show something that SF broke and the next game needs to fix ASAP: The game made your Skylander no different than your friend's or anyone else's.
Before,it wasn't very easy to see,but SSA and Giants made many things for you to say you had your Spyro,Flameslinger,whatever,and unless they were maxed out with every heroic and quest and used the same hat,you'd never find another like it so much. Now? A bit of HP increase and a hat are the only things that tell it apart. The fact the game pushes the new 'landers in your face just adds up to it - sure,you want to use your maxed out Tree Rex to destroy everything in the level,but it's going to be slow and boring compared to the oh-so-cooler Zoo Lou or the Life Swaplanders. Swap Force just destroyed the attachment you could have to your toys,which was one of the biggest selling points, and turned into a gear check for the pile of pixels with the best stats.

Of course, as soon as one notices I've never touched the game,there'd be people screaming that I wouldn't know what it's like,but I've seen enough in LPs to avoid the game - from the 20-second-long boss themes to the repetitive character designs and the fact VV didn't bother for one second to tie the games together... I'll wait for Skylanders 4 and so will the money I would've spent on this.

What I like:

1. Wrecking Ball is stronger
2. Longer levels
3. Bonus Missions
4. Survival Arenas
5. Graphics
6. Bigger hub than Giants
7. Different boosts on everyday of the week

What I don't like:

1. Less things to after you do all arenas, bonus missions and 100%
2. Impossible things to do! Such as not getting hit in some later climb zones, it is just impossible!
3. Lowered stats and no heroics. After I level someone up to 20, do all quests and have all upgrades there is nothing to do with them
4. Older characters. A lot are very bad in gameplay now, not all (Wrecking Ball).
5. Too much childish moments and things I don't like. What I mean is when everyone overreacts when they see a Skylander and when you face Kaos' mum I am embarrassed to do it in front of others
6. It is hard to level up and will take a while since I have 131 Skylanders!

I'm glad to see that there are other users who dislike the total removal of the heroics. In a past post, I mentioned how disappointed I was when I first put Granite Crusher into Swap Force. I did all his heroics in Giants and that character could really move. I put him into the new game and he was as slow as the day he was unboxed. Nothing feels like a bigger slap in our collective faces than to have all that effort you put forth in upgrading your character just be thrown out.

Does anyone remember the interview with the Activision guy (can't remember his name). He stated that if you had a character who has a speed of 90, he'll still feel like he's 90 even if his number doesn't say that. Seriously? Having actually booted up the game and seeing that we were basically lied to is just... I don't actually know what words I want to use for that. Does Activision really think so little of us that they'd lie to our faces before launch and we'd never remember it? I have a feeling those cartoon style dollar sign eyes are blinding their vision.

I agree with wreckingballbob about leveling up time. Honestly, I just take my reposes into Giants and get the first 15 levels a lot easier. The only time Swap Force is as good with XP is on Nightmare mode on a Sunday. That's about it. At least I want to get each repose their gold medals in both Giants and Swap Force, so it gives me a reason to do the majority of their leveling in the older game.

Quote: Eggers

I'm glad to see that there are other users who dislike the total removal of the heroics. In a past post, I mentioned how disappointed I was when I first put Granite Crusher into Swap Force. I did all his heroics in Giants and that character could really move. I put him into the new game and he was as slow as the day he was unboxed. Nothing feels like a bigger slap in our collective faces than to have all that effort you put forth in upgrading your character just be thrown out.

Does anyone remember the interview with the Activision guy (can't remember his name). He stated that if you had a character who has a speed of 90, he'll still feel like he's 90 even if his number doesn't say that. Seriously? Having actually booted up the game and seeing that we were basically lied to is just... I don't actually know what words I want to use for that. Does Activision really think so little of us that they'd lie to our faces before launch and we'd never remember it? I have a feeling those cartoon style dollar sign eyes are blinding their vision.

I agree with wreckingballbob about leveling up time. Honestly, I just take my reposes into Giants and get the first 15 levels a lot easier. The only time Swap Force is as good with XP is on Nightmare mode on a Sunday. That's about it. At least I want to get each repose their gold medals in both Giants and Swap Force, so it gives me a reason to do the majority of their leveling in the older game.

Leveling up being hard? I got to level 13 in maybe a day. On the other hand, it may be because I'm on the Wii.

I could get 5 or more Skylanders level 15 in one day in Giants. Nope to Swap Force.

My over all thoughts on the game are positive, but it does have flaws, major flaws.

Getting rid of the heroics killed the toy customization. That was an important part of the "toys with brains" idea and VV for some reason decided discard them, making the Skylanders almost the same statistics wise. Speaking of stats, I'm not of fan of how they're crazy low now. S3 Spyro's speed stat say's it's at 110, but he's not charging (Pun intended) through levels at a fast pace. The card's stats are pointless with out heroics. To my knowledge TfB is making Skylanders 4, hopefully they'll bring Heroics back.

As far a nerfing goes, I feel like VV did this on purpose to glorify their characters, while some of the older core are now stronger than they were before (Spyro can do over 200 damage with by spamming his flameball attack), a lot of them were weakened, like Stealth Elf. Some of the newlanders are way over powered, like Roller Brawl with her spin move or Free Ranger and his air blast. VV comes of as arrogant to me for doing this.

The NPCs can get annoying a bit (Rufus, I love ya, but I want to rip off your lower f#*%ing jaw). Sharp Fin is a great character. Hopefully he'll expand his market to more places in Skylands. That hermaphrodite Gillman. Kaos' Mother was great, Christine Baranski must have had fun with the role. Kaos and Glumshanks didn't change much. A lot of the characters from the previous games jut disappeared. Something that I loved about SSA and Giants is that you see characters from earlier in the game reappear later in the game as a general or playing cards with you on Flynn's ship.

The story was good, I wish it was..... a little darker. What I mean is something similar to the Wilikin in Giants. Something to show that Skylands has a darker side, like maybe a little hint that there was a war in Skylands that killed most of the Skylanders before the modern ones or Kaos' sanity slowly draining. I've talked about this before, it looked like Tfb wants to go in this direction and if they are I'm all for it. Skylanders should definitely go the Adventure Time route, all cute and kiddish with a dark and complex history, this would attract an older audience.

Personally, I'm glad to see heroics go. Having the Charms, Treasures and hats is enough. They did do a kind of number crunch in S.F. so you can't compare stat for stat from SSA or Giants. Overall I've noticed that some characters just seem to move faster than in previous games. I've never really cared about the quests. I do feel there is a reason to milk more stars from bonus missions and arenas since it increases the overall portal master rank for more treasure pedestals. I do HATE the forced cinematics/load times in this one. It's not so bad for arenas and bonus missions but the story levels are down right painful.

The graphics are a huge plus. I also like jumping more than I thought I would. I do wish they would make all the melee/ranged moves on the go a little more universal. It's fairly unbalanced that some characters need to stop moving to perform an attack while some do not. It can be a deal breaker on nightmare difficulty. I still wish they'd make a p.c. version (yes I know it sold poorly in SSA but that doesn't keep me from wanting it). I rarely get t.v. time to play my PS3 so i would be nice to play on my p.c. so I could, you know, play. lol you want a challenge, play on Nightmare with a lvl 10 character...that will get you blood pumping.

Also does anyone else thing the Corelanders are funner/more compelling to play than the Swappers? I mean Dune Bug, Bumble Blast, Star Strike (love her), Smoldy (love her too.), Skorp, etc. I am loving Rubble and Spy at the moment. Spy is a frakin BEAST. His slowing primary attack also adds a d.o.t. and his bottom makes him immune to damage while he's off screen causing damage AND he has an honest to God finisher...HOLY CRAP!!!!111!!!!!

My previous hateful rant seemed to get deleted so perhaps a toned down version here would be more appropriate. So here are my thoughts on the game.

I mostly hate it. I don't care about graphics and I am playing on the wii and so far (touching wood while I type this) we have only had a couple of freezes, no worse than we had in Giants really. The list of things that I hate about it are as follows:

Jumping - I hate Mario type games and so I was dreading the jumping feature that apparently so many of you wanted to see included (why couldn't you just play Mario and leave Skylanders alone people?). And it's EVERYWHERE. It's tiresome and dull to me. Perhaps I'll get used to it. In general game play it's not too challenging but those annoying Swap jumping challenges drive me INSANE.

Speaking of which I hate 100% of those Swap challenges. They are stupid and seem to be a direct rip off of other games (Bounce challenges = Mario, Speed challenges = Sonic, Climbing challenges not dissimilar to Donkey Kong). I play the game to get 3 stars on every level so before anyone says it, no skipping them is not an option. If they had to destroy the game by including this rubbish I wish it had been separate to the story mode and just something that you accessed as a form of training.

I hate the new wii controls. I have enjoyed playing with Whirlwind more and more in Giants using her lightning storm clouds thing by mashing the B button. But now it's the C button and the cramps in my hands after a few minutes are SOOOOOO painful.

I hate what they have done to Stealth Elf. Yes I will admit her new Wow Pow is sensational, but I would gladly give that up to have her as agile and deadly as she was in the first two games. Also the attack sounds are not the same without the sounds of slashing blades.

I am also disappointed that there is no way to upgrade a single Skylander over and above others in any meaningful way. Ok if they didn't want to or couldn't carry Heroic Challenges over, but having some way of significantly boosting an individual character would have been great.

Finally (for now) I hate that I can't save the game mid-chapter. If you're going to have REALLY LONG chapters that's fine but let me save them if they have to be that long. Personally I would have preferred twice as many chapters half as long.

I still think Spyro's Adventure is the best of the 3 games. A more interesting story line, lots of shorter chapters. Swap Force is just annoying to me. I will finish it because I have started it, but I can't see me finishing a chapter without a lot of swearing under my breath.

I've never played the first 2 Skylanders, so I have nothing to compare. I've been curious about the previous games, since you can find the starter packs from relatively cheap. The only problem is that I sold all my previous gen consoles. So I guess I'm stuck with Swap Force.

If they were going to change the controls for attacking, then they should have given an option to change them back to the way they were in Giants/Spyro's Adventure. Some moves were set up with those controls (such as Hot Head's bike), which now make them much more of a pain to do. Despite not having the primary attack and the jump buttons right next to each other in the old setup, it's what we were used to. They should have at least given us the option to change it back to that.

Quote: Eggers

I agree with wreckingballbob about leveling up time. Honestly, I just take my reposes into Giants and get the first 15 levels a lot easier. The only time Swap Force is as good with XP is on Nightmare mode on a Sunday. That's about it. At least I want to get each repose their gold medals in both Giants and Swap Force, so it gives me a reason to do the majority of their leveling in the older game.

The only thing that moved forward from Giants is the HP. That's it. There's a paltry sum of small improvement if you've done the Heroics, but you are correct that basically they negated the work one did to INDIVIDUALIZE and PERFORMANCE OPTIMIZE YOUR skylander. If they continue down the path they took with Swap Force they might as well throw away "toys to life" because other than leveling up that's all there is.

Now, someone tell me...what's this Nightmare on Sunday deal? Is this the message of the day change in game behavior?

In regards to controls, they should've allowed customization. That way...everyone is happy. Hard-wiring it was pretty short sided. There are some combos that require button hits from both square and circle...which isn't natural.

In regards to Wow Pows...they are all gimmicks to make you feel like another purchase of the figure is justified. I've yet to see a wow pow beyond whatever a character might get by getting a series 2 repose that would justify a re-purchase.

Each day of the week, the daily message is something different, GhostRoaster. On Sundays, you get Double XP. The only other way to increase how much XP you get is by having it on hard difficulty or nightmare. So basically your best opportunity to level as quickly as you could in Giants is on Sunday after reading the sign and having the game on Nightmare difficulty to give you the most XP possible.

Quote: Eggers

Each day of the week, the daily message is something different, GhostRoaster. On Sundays, you get Double XP. The only other way to increase how much XP you get is by having it on hard difficulty or nightmare. So basically your best opportunity to level as quickly as you could in Giants is on Sunday after reading the sign and having the game on Nightmare difficulty to give you the most XP possible.

Thanks for that info.

Now in regards to killing heroics---there were also some major flaws with it. It was incredibly monotonus and time consuming. I'm fine with the later, but would appreciate some re-introduction of SOME SORT OF SPECIFIC SKYLANDER CUSTOMIZATION stored on the figure. And something that can be unique to the skylander. Like the skylander specific quest but maybe something a bit more involved. And whatever it is...I'd like for them to RECOGNIZE YOUR ACHIEVEMENTS in ALL FUTURE GAMES so YOUR skylander behaves relative to the WORK YOU PUT INTO IT. Someone needs to recognize that they need to move other stats forward other than XP level.

All three games have their faults/flaws, but despite the shortcomings I still feel this is the best game to play, but the worst in terms of "toys to life".

Short and sweet. I like it, a lot. Graphics are a significant improvement. Swappers are a great new addition. Levels are crazy long and varied.

I don't min/max characters, the game isn't hard enough to need that. I play a different character every time. Tons of variety, and I don't need ways to maximize my output. Part of the reason why I didn't hate Shroomboom, unlike most others. I play only with my son (very rarely solo), and we usually have a good complement.

So far I've only played through four levels, the first two (real levels, not counting the intro one) and Sheep Wreck Island and Tower of Time. But, from what I've seen it'll be lots to do and a playthrough won't be brief or feel tedious.

I can see why others may be looking for more or avenues to make their character the best, but it's a great game and me and my son love it.

Honestly, the XP situation wouldn't be so bad if this were your only Skylanders game and so you only had Swap Force characters to level up. However, for those of us with massive collections and want to get them all the best they can possibly be in this game (which is really just leveled to 20 and quests anymore) it's a lot harder when only one day of the week hands out enough XP to get more than one character in a day finished. Sadly, I may give up on getting gold rank with all but my select favorite characters in this game. Of course, replaying a level involves those story scenes that you can't skip for a while and I'm tired of watching those. Luckily you can get some decent leveling done in arenas thanks to the Sunday bonus.

I honestly don't mind the time sink. I'm not in any hurry to do EVERYTHING. I'm going to start a replay on nightmare and see how that goes. I feel that with the latest release of Swappers that feel pretty powerful, it's time for the next level. I also feel that I'm running out of steam for new figs. I have sooooo many now that I don't see any advantage to getting new figures. Now that I have a sneak figure I don't think I need (or want) any other figs. O.k. I lied. O want Trap Shadow, Fryno, Punk Shock and Doom Stone....maybe Scratch.

The only aspect I liked about Heroics was that a different one came with the Skylander. I felt I HAD to get every Skylander that had a Speed, Armor or Crit. Challenge. I think one thing that could make Heroics compelling again is if they use a random dungeon generator, the point multiplier and stat increase for each one. I really feel that the time limit in the Bonus Missions feels right. They could simply allow for more time to complete a heroic challenge and have it be different each time you do it. The monotony is what killed the original H.C's for me.

Quote: Tigorus

I honestly don't mind the time sink. I'm not in any hurry to do EVERYTHING. I'm going to start a replay on nightmare and see how that goes. I feel that with the latest release of Swappers that feel pretty powerful, it's time for the next level. I also feel that I'm running out of steam for new figs. I have sooooo many now that I don't see any advantage to getting new figures. Now that I have a sneak figure I don't think I need (or want) any other figs. O.k. I lied. O want Trap Shadow, Fryno, Punk Shock and Doom Stone....maybe Scratch.

The only aspect I liked about Heroics was that a different one came with the Skylander. I felt I HAD to get every Skylander that had a Speed, Armor or Crit. Challenge. I think one thing that could make Heroics compelling again is if they use a random dungeon generator, the point multiplier and stat increase for each one. I really feel that the time limit in the Bonus Missions feels right. They could simply allow for more time to complete a heroic challenge and have it be different each time you do it. The monotony is what killed the original H.C's for me.

You expounded on my concerns about HCs and some pretty cool ways to improve on the model. Bravo.

You're right on the number of skylanders...but really we're fooling ourselves. I'm buying them because I like the toys and the completion chase...playability is secondary--although I think I can actually commit on not getting reposes next time. Other than that...I'm "right on target" with original purchase plans.

I've essentially "grounded" all green and orange skylanders until all blues are fully upgraded. If I still have an interest after that...we'll think about using them for extended use.

Here's how I feel they could have fixed the Heroic challenge thing: you have new ones in each game that can be changed and modified like Tigorus mentioned above. I don't know how the coding works for the game, but give it the same identifying name as previous heroics. Then, if they make 46 new ones (which I think was the number in Giants), you have those already done with your old skylanders from Giants. That way you don't have each character getting more and more in each game they play. OR, since they've clearly shown they can just wipe away the boosts from heroics, wipe each character clean and give us 46 new heroics to reupgrade our characters again.

I wouldn't have minded them deleting the boosts from heroics if they had given us something new to boost them back up with. I'd gladly put in the effort of new heroic challenges to upgrade speed (especially speed since I HATE slow skylanders), crit hit, armor and elemental power. Just a thought.

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If they continue down the path they took with Swap Force they might as well throw away "toys to life" because other than leveling up that's all there is.

THIS^ Perfectly put. If there is no way to significantly improve one toy over another they may as well not bother selling physical toys. They may as well just have in game characters rather than physical ones.

Surely this mistake won't be made on Skylanders 4.

I personally hope these ridiculous in story challenges will be gone too, but I understand that I am in the angry minority on that.

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OR, since they've clearly shown they can just wipe away the boosts from heroics, wipe each character clean and give us 46 new heroics to reupgrade our characters again.

Sorry but you might be on your own there. Some people on this forum seem to have put HOURS into every S1 and S2 character. Not sure anyone would be too happy about having all that previous effort wiped away.

Quote: kaosmumishot

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OR, since they've clearly shown they can just wipe away the boosts from heroics, wipe each character clean and give us 46 new heroics to reupgrade our characters again.

Sorry but you might be on your own there. Some people on this forum seem to have put HOURS into every S1 and S2 character. Not sure anyone would be too happy about having all that previous effort wiped away.

Actually, I'm not even in that camp to begin with, as seen by my ire in one of my posts above about how my hard work on older figures was just deleted in swap force. However, I was simply giving two examples of how they could have given us at least something rather than just deleting all that effort we've already put in and given us nothing worthwhile in return. Most of the giants are horrible without their heroic speed upgrades

Quote:

Most of the giants are horrible without their heroic speed upgrades

Agreed

I can feel the angry comments already coming for me, but, honestly, I think that the swappers were the worst thing that happened. I hate the act of "swapping", I know that my friend likes to play with the figures, and sometimes I join in, but they just come apart so easily (I know they have to come of easily so that kids can easily swap). I also hate having to upgrade the top AND bottom...

Quote: kaosmumishot

Quote:

OR, since they've clearly shown they can just wipe away the boosts from heroics, wipe each character clean and give us 46 new heroics to reupgrade our characters again.

Sorry but you might be on your own there. Some people on this forum seem to have put HOURS into every S1 and S2 character. Not sure anyone would be too happy about having all that previous effort wiped away.

Didn't they effectively do that by not programming the boosts from Giants heroics in Swap Force? Oddly, I am surprised when I put my character in Swap force and go to the Quests screen that it does in fact recognize via icon the level you are at Quests wise in Giants. It was almost a sarcastic taunt that says---so what if you've done the upgrades--the developer of THIS GAME will DECIDE YOUR FATE in regards to how your upgraded skylander will work in the game. And we've chosen not to give you any benefit moving forward...

And now, with everything in Swap Force being tied to the save file...it's guaranteed that nothing will be recognized via Skylanders 4 except for 1. level up and 2. quests (but will they give you the health bonus from it).

Other than for the sake of saying "you did it"...I don't see the purpose for upgrading skylanders anymore. It doesn't move forward except for the level (but the health is debatable given the fact that the majority of values are all tied to a save file now).

I like the Bonus Missions, and months ago I was still tying some sort of reward to your stats with them. Instead, the stars give you a portal rank which unlocks hats or legendary treasures which accomplish that.


Quote: Mesuxelf

I can feel the angry comments already coming for me, but, honestly, I think that the swappers were the worst thing that happened. I hate the act of "swapping", I know that my friend likes to play with the figures, and sometimes I join in, but they just come apart so easily (I know they have to come of easily so that kids can easily swap). I also hate having to upgrade the top AND bottom...

I like swapping, and keep in mind that their upgrade paths are shorter and cheaper for Swappers. The idea for this was infinitely more interesting than Giants.

I personally don't have many complaints for this game except for the reoccurring cut scenes and chats you can't skip as well as the fact the game isn't as long as it should be. Also I see why people want the game to be darker, but don't forget that's one of the many offenses that destroyed the original Spyro games during the Legend of Spyro games and one false move will just let history repeat itself.

Quote: GhostRoaster617

No need for bold,people can read a post with 2-3 lines. And darker plot didn't ruin LOS - It was the idiotic attempts at being a Lord of the Rings/Star Wars,and later DOTD being a really bad game. There are more than enough fanfics around to show Spyro would work in a slightly darker setting(with more mature themes,a bit less humor,cool subplots;it doesn't need to be gory and edgy at all),and Skylanders would as well if they simply dropped the kiddifying and treated the dangerous world in the sky as a dangerous world in the sky, all it takes is better writing.

I will give another positive for this game, they really did make the flying more useful in battle situations. Before, turning while in midair with a flying character was a slow task. They have now made turns, especially 180 degree turns, much quicker to do. I've actually found flying during a fight to be much more useful that it was in Giants.

Quote: Eggers

I will give another positive for this game, they really did make the flying more useful in battle situations. Before, turning while in midair with a flying character was a slow task. They have now made turns, especially 180 degree turns, much quicker to do. I've actually found flying during a fight to be much more useful that it was in Giants.

IIRC, there's actually no turn around animation involved...which makes the difference.

Just the fact that you finally got rid of that ship makes Swap force a better game then Giants.

Quote: Kevin16

Just the fact that you finally got rid of that ship makes Swap force a better game then Giants.

I'll be forever the only fan that loves the Dread-Yacht,no? It added a layer of adventure that a stationary island just can't have,not to mention gave a urgency feel since the Giants quest is so dangerous the group can't simply have the luxury of resting on land.
Though it can go if it stays on primary colors and unnecessary redesign like in SF. The fun of the Dread-Yacht was that the group had to depend on a huge cursed ship and it was probably going to get everyone in trouble,and now it's the "best" ship ever for the sake of plot convenience.

I think linking stats bonuses to the gamesave and not to the toys is a big mistake. I see it with my son and his friends. It kills part of the fun of training their prefered skylander and bring them to play PvP or story mode at their friend's house.

It is a general comment, not just related to the loss of the heroic challenges. There were other ways to link stat bonuses to the skylander and not to the game save file.

I also think that series 3 characters should have received a totally new set of moves and not just a wow pow.

On the other hand, swappable characters is a very good concept and PS4 / Xbox One versions bring a lot to yhe game.

Quote: GhostRoaster

Quote: kaosmumishot

Quote:

OR, since they've clearly shown they can just wipe away the boosts from heroics, wipe each character clean and give us 46 new heroics to reupgrade our characters again.

Sorry but you might be on your own there. Some people on this forum seem to have put HOURS into every S1 and S2 character. Not sure anyone would be too happy about having all that previous effort wiped away.

Didn't they effectively do that by not programming the boosts from Giants heroics in Swap Force? Oddly, I am surprised when I put my character in Swap force and go to the Quests screen that it does in fact recognize via icon the level you are at Quests wise in Giants. It was almost a sarcastic taunt that says---so what if you've done the upgrades--the developer of THIS GAME will DECIDE YOUR FATE in regards to how your upgraded skylander will work in the game. And we've chosen not to give you any benefit moving forward...

And now, with everything in Swap Force being tied to the save file...it's guaranteed that nothing will be recognized via Skylanders 4 except for 1. level up and 2. quests (but will they give you the health bonus from it).

Other than for the sake of saying "you did it"...I don't see the purpose for upgrading skylanders anymore. It doesn't move forward except for the level (but the health is debatable given the fact that the majority of values are all tied to a save file now).

I like the Bonus Missions, and months ago I was still tying some sort of reward to your stats with them. Instead, the stars give you a portal rank which unlocks hats or legendary treasures which accomplish that.

___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___

Quote: Mesuxelf

I can feel the angry comments already coming for me, but, honestly, I think that the swappers were the worst thing that happened. I hate the act of "swapping", I know that my friend likes to play with the figures, and sometimes I join in, but they just come apart so easily (I know they have to come of easily so that kids can easily swap). I also hate having to upgrade the top AND bottom...

I like swapping, and keep in mind that their upgrade paths are shorter and cheaper for Swappers. The idea for this was infinitely more interesting than Giants.

Sorry, I don't know how to quote only the part under the lines...
I agree that the idea of swapping is better than the giants, I just think that swapping isn't as fun as it was perceived to be. I get the impression that each character's upper body was made to go with the bottom part (ex. Hoot's upper body makes use of his wand attack, and without Loop to teleport, he wouldn't be as fun to play as).

Quote: Mesuxelf

Sorry, I don't know how to quote only the part under the lines...

Just cut out the text that you don't want to quote,like you're the one writing it. Just try not to cut the quote tags

I actually prefer Giants since they actually drew from the Elder Elementals scroll in SSA,but there are many gimmicks that they could've used for characters that would work better ('Mega' forms for existing ones,real embodiments of the elements that could alter the level,fusions of existing ones). They're all much more reasonable to a grown up than sticking an octopus torso over robot spider legs and somehow thinking it enhances the character as a whole(as in,are they really more powerful swapped or they plain change their powers,not getting stronger at all?),though.

Quote: Bifrost

Quote: GhostRoaster617

No need for bold,people can read a post with 2-3 lines. And darker plot didn't ruin LOS - It was the idiotic attempts at being a Lord of the Rings/Star Wars,and later DOTD being a really bad game. There are more than enough fanfics around to show Spyro would work in a slightly darker setting(with more mature themes,a bit less humor,cool subplots;it doesn't need to be gory and edgy at all),and Skylanders would as well if they simply dropped the kiddifying and treated the dangerous world in the sky as a dangerous world in the sky, all it takes is better writing.

Well thank you for your input and I see what you mean as well. I brought that up because it was merely just a contributing problem as I heard many Spyro fans really didn't like the idea and many felt it slowly made the games feel less Spyro like.

Quote: Bifrost

Quote: Kevin16

Just the fact that you finally got rid of that ship makes Swap force a better game then Giants.

I'll be forever the only fan that loves the Dread-Yacht,no? It added a layer of adventure that a stationary island just can't have,not to mention gave a urgency feel since the Giants quest is so dangerous the group can't simply have the luxury of resting on land.
Though it can go if it stays on primary colors and unnecessary redesign like in SF. The fun of the Dread-Yacht was that the group had to depend on a huge cursed ship and it was probably going to get everyone in trouble,and now it's the "best" ship ever for the sake of plot convenience.

I liked the boat too, but it seemed a bit more "confined"...Woodbury has a little more to it and is spaced out to give you a bigger hub feeling. From a plot perspective though...it made sense to stay on the move. I'm shocked and dismayed that Kaos hasn't found out their Woodbury home base and started carpet bombing it yet. Kaos is becoming as cute and cuddly as a chompy now. Ugh.

Quote: Kefran

I think linking stats bonuses to the gamesave and not to the toys is a big mistake. I see it with my son and his friends. It kills part of the fun of training their prefered skylander and bring them to play PvP or story mode at their friend's house.

It is a general comment, not just related to the loss of the heroic challenges. There were other ways to link stat bonuses to the skylander and not to the game save file.

I also think that series 3 characters should have received a totally new set of moves and not just a wow pow.

On the other hand, swappable characters is a very good concept and PS4 / Xbox One versions bring a lot to yhe game.

Seems reasonable....I'm committed to no longer getting reposes after this game unless they bring more than a wow pow to the table on the next one. The point about your skylander's stats getting totally changed when going to a friend's save file because of their in game set up is a good point.

Quote: GhostRoaster

Quote: Bifrost

Quote: Kevin16

Just the fact that you finally got rid of that ship makes Swap force a better game then Giants.

I'll be forever the only fan that loves the Dread-Yacht,no? It added a layer of adventure that a stationary island just can't have,not to mention gave a urgency feel since the Giants quest is so dangerous the group can't simply have the luxury of resting on land.
Though it can go if it stays on primary colors and unnecessary redesign like in SF. The fun of the Dread-Yacht was that the group had to depend on a huge cursed ship and it was probably going to get everyone in trouble,and now it's the "best" ship ever for the sake of plot convenience.

I liked the boat too, but it seemed a bit more "confined"...Woodbury has a little more to it and is spaced out to give you a bigger hub feeling. From a plot perspective though...it made sense to stay on the move. I'm shocked and dismayed that Kaos hasn't found out their Woodbury home base and started carpet bombing it yet. Kaos is becoming as cute and cuddly as a chompy now. Ugh.

Actually, you would have thought he did know where their home base is. Were not the greebles and chompies working for him? They were basically stationed outside the gate waiting for skylanders to slaughter them in droves. You'd think after an onslaught like that, he would have at least burned their village to the ground after kidnapping their chieftess. A little too dark you say? Was he not attempting in vain to roast the tree spirit alive with evil fire? I'm assuming to make her some pile of evil ashes or something along those lines, but still: he was trying to burn HER alive but not Woodburrow? The prosecution rests.

Overall, I enjoy the game, I can't really discuss too much about it. I'll just do an ol' short and sweet comparison of the Wii and Wii U:


The Wii version could've been much better if it was polished, but the Wii U is so much better.

Graphic wise, it's OK on the Wii, but is about 100x better on the Wii U. It's incredible.

Gameplay wise, it reminded me slightly of an older Spyro game.

Sorry for the rambly list, but this is what bugs me about Swapforce:

Most important is no bug-fixing patches! When something can just suddenly erase/halt your progress with no fix, it's a huge issue. "Just restart your game" is a BAD solution to something that can happen again and again and it's not supposed to.

Then the LOADING. Being forced to sit through a cutscene to start the game to go into a level is draining. And you can't just pause and skip like a normal game, you have to sit there for who knows how long waiting until the skip option LOADS. I'm a patient person, but hours of playing and being hit with cutscenes that I have to watch until I can skip them is just, UGH! They might as well play commercials for McDonalds between levels at this point.

I feel like jumping didn't add anything. It's not better or worse, just the same, to the point that it doesn't even need jumping. I don't want Skylanders to go in the Mario 3D World direction but that's an example of a game that has 3D linear platforming done right. Skylanders has fighting different enemies, Mario has jumping on different platforms.

Swappers are a little TOO important for completion. I'm not calling the swapping gimmick bad at all! I love that part of their gimmick, and wish I liked more of them. But my issue is you need ALL EIGHT movement types to get 100% story completion. You did need several toys in past games, but SSA had more variety to pick from when it came to getting your 8 elements, and Giants was even more generous by including the giant with the game. The minigames they give aren't bad (if a little too simple), but they should stay out of the story mode.
And how will this impact future games? We didn't see new or reposed Giants in Swapforce, and their role in Swapforce completely got rid of the "cool" factor of pulling islands or throwing boulders. Will swap zones be gone in the next game, or will they be required for story completion too? They're starting to get a little out of hand with gates in levels now, especially if each game introduces a new set of gimmick characters.

And more of a "minor" bug, free-roaming pets beeline for chests and don't follow you correctly so pet-based characters are less reliable as they were before. And when you're carrying a bomb, the auto-aiming prioritizes crates before the actual bomb target! Just these little moments are frustrating during gameplay. I've also had moments where Sonic Boom's wow pow is completely dysfunctional because it keeps running in place on solid ground because it's pursuing a far-off crate it can't even reach instead of nearby enemies. The following might be an issue with pets not being able to jump, or bad pathing (enemies can sure follow you fine).

Quote: GhostRoaster

Quote: Eggers

Each day of the week, the daily message is something different, GhostRoaster. On Sundays, you get Double XP. The only other way to increase how much XP you get is by having it on hard difficulty or nightmare. So basically your best opportunity to level as quickly as you could in Giants is on Sunday after reading the sign and having the game on Nightmare difficulty to give you the most XP possible.

Thanks for that info.

Now in regards to killing heroics---there were also some major flaws with it. It was incredibly monotonus and time consuming. I'm fine with the later, but would appreciate some re-introduction of SOME SORT OF SPECIFIC SKYLANDER CUSTOMIZATION stored on the figure. And something that can be unique to the skylander. Like the skylander specific quest but maybe something a bit more involved. And whatever it is...I'd like for them to RECOGNIZE YOUR ACHIEVEMENTS in ALL FUTURE GAMES so YOUR skylander behaves relative to the WORK YOU PUT INTO IT. Someone needs to recognize that they need to move other stats forward other than XP level.

All three games have their faults/flaws, but despite the shortcomings I still feel this is the best game to play, but the worst in terms of "toys to life".

Gamers will always benefit from owning SA and SG when it comes to SF. Maybe eventually I will get around to taking a pic of a Series 3 Skylander to show people that it is higher than a lot that are on here.

Quote:

Lately, I've found that Swap Force has been going back onto the shelf more often and I've been returning to Giants.

I didn't think I'd say this, but I totally agree. SF is the objectively better game... But there's more heart behind everything in Giants, and I like the balance of the Skylanders miles better.

Everything in SF just feels so generic and undeveloped, there's no personality behind things like Survival which Giants had. I noticed something off about Survival mode but could never pinpoint what. Then I read a post here about how it doesn't have the same personality Giants had, with Brock congratulating you and the crowd in the background... And I totally agree. It might be nitpicking considering I couldn't pin it down before someone else pointed it out but it's little things like that which made Skylanders great, it had so many adorable details. That's barely there in SF, at least compared to the old games. TFB started that in Giants too, removing the old Battle Mode win screen and such, but that was a little more excusable because they rushed it out. VV just turned it Up To Eleven in SF.

One fine example of this is with the NPCs... Wow I honestly don't like any of them, besides Kaos' Mom, and Glumshanks who is always adorable. SF has tons of characters but 75% of them are just to lead you to the next level or to have an NPC to initiate something else(like how Snagglescale initiates Score Attack, for example). If you're going to add a character, give it a point besides just being a level's guide and never doing anything again. Sharpfin was the only character I remember who did this, besides maybe Avril if you count her leading you to Winter's Keep(and she basically disappeared right afterwards), and Snagglescale... Um... I don't get what's up with Snagglescale, he just appears for some reason in Cascade Glade and then gets to stick around with Flynn and it's never explained why.
Also, it's really poor how the game completely ignored the older games' cast besides Glumshanks, Kaos, Flynn and a cameo duet from Hugo and Cali. Flynn doesn't even show concern for any of them in the main story, and I know if impending doom was coming I'd at least say "I hope my friend is ok"(seriously, Flynn is devolving into a JERK now). The game even tosses in new villains right before levels without any buildup and never mentions anything about them again(see Mesmerelda), and creates supposedly "important" characters like the Chieftess who barely actually appear. SA and Giants were still guilty of these, definitely... Especially SA... but not to the stupid point of SF, and at least in Giants and SA the NPCs were more ENTERTAINING even though some were pointless, which I don't see in SF. (Though I will say that Chapter 10 from Giants was a stupid BLAM that was just for padding out the game, and it didn't really tie in well with the "Yacht is cursed" thing as that was never mentioned again...).

Anyway, I'll stop talking about the story mode now. The gameplay, how's that? Get this: I like GIANTS better. Wow. I won't deny SF's mechanics are very cool and I really appreciate how the controls are tighter and more precise. But the actual balance of the game is really what makes me like Giants more. SF has tons of fancy new characters with awesome new abilities, and movesets which just work wonderfully with attacks that all work together- but oh my god, it's not the case at all with old characters in SF. Every old character in SF that I've played bar Double Trouble, FD Zook, Terrafin, Chill, EoTS Warnado, Stealth Elf and possibly Ignitor STINKS now by the SF standards. Spyro is even more spammy which is boring, Prism Break has been cursed with horrible damage re-allocation and even slower speed, Slam Bam's Ice Prison no longer freezes enemies, Sprocket's Turret is now too difficult to set up to actually use it... The list goes on. It's not nessicarily that they're all "worse" than before as I have indeed noticed a bunch are more balanced, but they just don't hold a candle to the new SF guys and many can't survive in Nightmare mode now. There's little reason for me to use that many of the old characters when I'm just not having fun with them, but one of the reasons I wanted SF was to play re-balanced older characters- some really needed buffs- but VV didn't fix many of them. So I'm really disappointed in this.
I won't deny the older games had "useless" characters(lol Total Tongue Wrecking Ball), but there weren't THAT many. Honestly, no others pop into my mind for being notably bad, but there are plenty of old characters that I'll never touch again in SF because new characters just outclass them, or do their job better(Grilla Drilla is basically Sprocket, re-balanced version). I struggle and become frustrated when using certain characters in Nightmare Mode SF, becuase they were just bought over poorly, and it's not fun becoming frustrated because of that. Giants didn't do those things, it kept the new characters fairly balanced, and I can't think of anyone introduced during Giants that was basically a better version of an old character like Magna Charge is to Drobot. (Besides Bouncer, who was GF Trigger Happy as he should have been, with his superior fingerguns and better bulk.) Yeah there are characters who can't really stand up to Nightmare in Giants but it's not as bad as SF. I will admit some old characters like Zap/Flameslinger felt too much like expies which I praise SF for avoiding amongst the new lot, for the most part, however.

Also the lack of Heroics... Ugh... I hate it, full stop, it gets rid of any connection with your toys when the game isn't treating you as a Portal Master like the older ones did, and there's nothing to actually do with your Skylanders besides levelling and Quests. It doesn't feel rewarding.

And yeah I think that's my big problem with SF, it has enough content but it doesn't feel rewarding enough so it just feels like a grind and like VV simply padded it out instead. The reward for reaching Portal Master Rank 80 is paltry, you spend too much time doing Quests and levelling Skylanders just to get their HP up- which doesn't feel cool... You aren't treated like a Portal Master any more so you don't feel so awesome and powerful, and your enemies act so dumb you wonder how they figured out how to walk, and get little sense of accomplishment when you defeat them... It's not just me, is it? Yeah the balance was never perfect, but it's a lot worse in SF.

Anyway I don't feel like writing more, and I apologise for my harshness as I'm just cynical and get bored with SF every time I play. Instead of writing more, I'll just say I totally agree with these posts:
#1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 15, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, 25, 27, 28, 31, 32, 33, 36, 37, 39.

Also, one more thing: Battle Mode SUCKS now that there are only five arenas, I've played them all and there are no more coming, and honestly none are speculacular or filled with detail. They basically all just have one trap, besides Rampart Ruins which is a good arena, though that's offset by how bad, boring and plain Treacherous Beach is. They're all so boring and I hate that there are only five of them- PVP becomes stupidly predictable once you've played all the arenas over and over, when you know what every trap is and where, and it's just amplified by how few are available and how little variety each has.

Quote: Arc of Archives

Quote:

Lately, I've found that Swap Force has been going back onto the shelf more often and I've been returning to Giants.

I didn't think I'd say this, but I totally agree. SF is the objectively better game... But there's more heart behind everything in Giants, and I like the balance of the Skylanders miles better.

Everything in SF just feels so generic and undeveloped, there's no personality behind things like Survival which Giants had. I noticed something off about Survival mode but could never pinpoint what. Then I read a post here about how it doesn't have the same personality Giants had, with Brock congratulating you and the crowd in the background... And I totally agree. It might be nitpicking considering I couldn't pin it down before someone else pointed it out but it's little things like that which made Skylanders great, it had so many adorable details. That's barely there in SF, at least compared to the old games. TFB started that in Giants too, removing the old Battle Mode win screen and such, but that was a little more excusable because they rushed it out. VV just turned it Up To Eleven in SF.

One fine example of this is with the NPCs... Wow I honestly don't like any of them, besides Kaos' Mom, and Glumshanks who is always adorable. SF has tons of characters but 75% of them are just to lead you to the next level or to have an NPC to initiate something else(like how Snagglescale initiates Score Attack, for example). If you're going to add a character, give it a point besides just being a level's guide and never doing anything again. Sharpfin was the only character I remember who did this, besides maybe Avril if you count her leading you to Winter's Keep(and she basically disappeared right afterwards), and Snagglescale... Um... I don't get what's up with Snagglescale, he just appears for some reason in Cascade Glade and then gets to stick around with Flynn and it's never explained why.
Also, it's really poor how the game completely ignored the older games' cast besides Glumshanks, Kaos, Flynn and a cameo duet from Hugo and Cali. Flynn doesn't even show concern for any of them in the main story, and I know if impending doom was coming I'd at least say "I hope my friend is ok"(seriously, Flynn is devolving into a JERK now). The game even tosses in new villains right before levels without any buildup and never mentions anything about them again(see Mesmerelda), and creates supposedly "important" characters like the Chieftess who barely actually appear. SA and Giants were still guilty of these, definitely... Especially SA... but not to the stupid point of SF, and at least in Giants and SA the NPCs were more ENTERTAINING even though some were pointless, which I don't see in SF. (Though I will say that Chapter 10 from Giants was a stupid BLAM that was just for padding out the game, and it didn't really tie in well with the "Yacht is cursed" thing as that was never mentioned again...).

Anyway, I'll stop talking about the story mode now. The gameplay, how's that? Get this: I like GIANTS better. Wow. I won't deny SF's mechanics are very cool and I really appreciate how the controls are tighter and more precise. But the actual balance of the game is really what makes me like Giants more. SF has tons of fancy new characters with awesome new abilities, and movesets which just work wonderfully with attacks that all work together- but oh my god, it's not the case at all with old characters in SF. Every old character in SF that I've played bar Double Trouble, FD Zook, Terrafin, Chill, EoTS Warnado, Stealth Elf and possibly Ignitor STINKS now by the SF standards. Spyro is even more spammy which is boring, Prism Break has been cursed with horrible damage re-allocation and even slower speed, Slam Bam's Ice Prison no longer freezes enemies, Sprocket's Turret is now too difficult to set up to actually use it... The list goes on. It's not nessicarily that they're all "worse" than before as I have indeed noticed a bunch are more balanced, but they just don't hold a candle to the new SF guys and many can't survive in Nightmare mode now. There's little reason for me to use that many of the old characters when I'm just not having fun with them, but one of the reasons I wanted SF was to play re-balanced older characters- some really needed buffs- but VV didn't fix many of them. So I'm really disappointed in this.
I won't deny the older games had "useless" characters(lol Total Tongue Wrecking Ball), but there weren't THAT many. Honestly, no others pop into my mind for being notably bad, but there are plenty of old characters that I'll never touch again in SF because new characters just outclass them, or do their job better(Grilla Drilla is basically Sprocket, re-balanced version). I struggle and become frustrated when using certain characters in Nightmare Mode SF, becuase they were just bought over poorly, and it's not fun becoming frustrated because of that. Giants didn't do those things, it kept the new characters fairly balanced, and I can't think of anyone introduced during Giants that was basically a better version of an old character like Magna Charge is to Drobot. (Besides Bouncer, who was GF Trigger Happy as he should have been, with his superior fingerguns and better bulk.) Yeah there are characters who can't really stand up to Nightmare in Giants but it's not as bad as SF. I will admit some old characters like Zap/Flameslinger felt too much like expies which I praise SF for avoiding amongst the new lot, for the most part, however.

Also the lack of Heroics... Ugh... I hate it, full stop, it gets rid of any connection with your toys when the game isn't treating you as a Portal Master like the older ones did, and there's nothing to actually do with your Skylanders besides levelling and Quests. It doesn't feel rewarding.

And yeah I think that's my big problem with SF, it has enough content but it doesn't feel rewarding enough so it just feels like a grind and like VV simply padded it out instead. The reward for reaching Portal Master Rank 80 is paltry, you spend too much time doing Quests and levelling Skylanders just to get their HP up- which doesn't feel cool... You aren't treated like a Portal Master any more so you don't feel so awesome and powerful, and your enemies act so dumb you wonder how they figured out how to walk, and get little sense of accomplishment when you defeat them... It's not just me, is it? Yeah the balance was never perfect, but it's a lot worse in SF.

Anyway I don't feel like writing more, and I apologise for my harshness as I'm just cynical and get bored with SF every time I play. Instead of writing more, I'll just say I totally agree with these posts:
#1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 15, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, 25, 27, 28, 31, 32, 33, 36, 37, 39.

At least they fixed Wrecking ball Total Tongue in Swap Force!

Each Tongue Wrap does 55 damage rather than 15.

You don't agree with my posts

Quote: GhostRoaster

I liked the boat too, but it seemed a bit more "confined"...Woodbury has a little more to it and is spaced out to give you a bigger hub feeling. From a plot perspective though...it made sense to stay on the move. I'm shocked and dismayed that Kaos hasn't found out their Woodbury home base and started carpet bombing it yet. Kaos is becoming as cute and cuddly as a chompy now. Ugh..

The boat is definately more confined - it could've used a bigger ship,considering the Giants are should be supposed to be living there until they reached their destination and Tree Rex just barely doesn't touch the ceiling of almost every room.
Ah,one of the main reasons I really wish SF gets retconned out of the story. Kaos had two games being the most dangerous thing to walk on Skylands(dangerous even to himself once you think about the Wilikin and how they imply he has issues),and all it took was Kalamity--I mean, his mom(who the devs couldn't even care about giving a name) being so dangerous and powerful and better than the villains TFB created that Kaos was reduced to a violent idiot who can't do anything right - while his mom actually is just as incompetent doing stuff like pretending that moving around portals is actually going to help her in any way. Glumshanks was probably the bright spot of the characters as a whole in this game - they stabilished him as being just as evil as the other guys,just too pessimistic to do anything,and he was pretty well written. But everyone else,just...urgh,and SPECIALLY Kaos. Hopefully TFB will compensate finally show us the guy that killed Eon with a nuke once more.


@wreckingballbob - Making Wrecking Ball better doesn't make the game;the other user's point was that there are 'landers that just aren't fun to play with anymore,not that some were finally tweaked.

Quote: Bifrost

Quote: GhostRoaster

I liked the boat too, but it seemed a bit more "confined"...Woodbury has a little more to it and is spaced out to give you a bigger hub feeling. From a plot perspective though...it made sense to stay on the move. I'm shocked and dismayed that Kaos hasn't found out their Woodbury home base and started carpet bombing it yet. Kaos is becoming as cute and cuddly as a chompy now. Ugh..

The boat is definately more confined - it could've used a bigger ship,considering the Giants are should be supposed to be living there until they reached their destination and Tree Rex just barely doesn't touch the ceiling of almost every room.
Ah,one of the main reasons I really wish SF gets retconned out of the story. Kaos had two games being the most dangerous thing to walk on Skylands(dangerous even to himself once you think about the Wilikin and how they imply he has issues),and all it took was Kalamity--I mean, his mom(who the devs couldn't even care about giving a name) being so dangerous and powerful and better than the villains TFB created that Kaos was reduced to a violent idiot who can't do anything right - while his mom actually is just as incompetent doing stuff like pretending that moving around portals is actually going to help her in any way. Glumshanks was probably the bright spot of the characters as a whole in this game - they stabilished him as being just as evil as the other guys,just too pessimistic to do anything,and he was pretty well written. But everyone else,just...urgh,and SPECIALLY Kaos. Hopefully TFB will compensate finally show us the guy that killed Eon with a nuke once more.


@wreckingballbob - Making Wrecking Ball better doesn't make the game;the other user's point was that there are 'landers that just aren't fun to play with anymore,not that some were finally tweaked.

I know but I posted that because they said Total Tongue was terrible in the last two games. I just wanted to say it was improved.

A few people (most reacently Arc) have made an amazing point that I didn't even realize was a problem for me until now: there is such a disconnect between you and these characters this game.

I love Pokemon, I've played it since the original Blue Version came out. I name everyone of them that I can come up with a name for, but most especially the team that I'm going to use for the game. I name them, I train them, level them up and even teach them moves. It becomes a journey with you and your team, as ridiculous as that sounds.

In Giants, I had a Pokemon approach (including eventually needing to "catch them all", but that's a whole different can of worms right there). I tried many out and eventually picked my favorites. I named them (except Spyro), I leveled them up and I taught them moves... sort of, thanks to buying paths and things of that nature. But most importantly, I trained them through heroic challenges! Sure, I felt compelled to do that for all my Skylanders to increase the use of each one, but I especially took joy in training "my team" in heroics. I had Spyro, Boomer, Ghost Roaster, Eye Brawl, Thumpback, Tree Rex, Swarm and Eruptor. That was my team in Giants, but I also had other favorites that I'd swap in and out of the lineup as well. Since Swap Force? I've used Boomer a great deal and Spyro as well. Ghost Roaster hasn't been on the portal more than twice... all the giants are more or less obliterated in their usefulness. I don't have a team anymore, they all just feel like "extra lives" with their own move set.

People may say I'm over thinking this, but I truly blame the lack of heroics for the disconnect with these guys. They aren't as much my skylanders anymore, barely even "my team". Now they are just figures and I hate it. I want that Pokemon feeling back with this game, but sadly the lack of heroics and the ability to work on my characters has really ruined that for me, as well as some of their ridiculous quests that have become more of a chore to complete. At least when I did quests before, I could show if off with a bronze/silver/gold hat. The stats may not have been the best, but it was the effort that hat showed off to anyone that I brought my characters over too. Anymore, my Boomer is no different from another sans the path I picked and the hat he wears.

That is a total disconnect from the characters and, essentially, the game.

In retrospect my other post is kinda mean. I know it sounds like I'm just trying to be as cynical as possible, but I'm just really fired up about it, and I really hate some things that SF has done. There no doubt in my mind that it's a very, very good game(due to very good level and art design as well as some geniously fun 'landers), but I think there are aspects where they just screwed up, plain and simple. And shouldn't the fact that I'm willing to criticise and spend my time just to write a rant like that prove that I really care, and that I want to see them learn from some things, by offering my own honest (if somewhat harsh) feedback? I think it's really important that in the future the devs- wether it be TFB or VV- learn from some of those mistakes the games made that haven't been addressed and fix them in future installments, be it their own games or the others' games. I'm not saying that whatever I want from a Skylanders game would be definitive and perfect and any other idea is wrong or that they're being lazy bums and have learned nothing about what to do but I think we can all agree they need to work on certain things and just did certain things really badly.

Anyway, just imagine a Skylanders game with VV's game design and TFB's storytelling...

Arc, I think it's a good thing that we are all putting our thoughts and feelings here. Maybe someone at Activision may somehow read these and see a number of us all with the same thoughts. Maybe they'll rethink the utter obliteration of heroic challenges, forced scenes to watch and giant laundry list of other defects that hurt this game for a number of us. You're right, it shows that we care by being willing to post our thoughts, no matter if these thoughts are positive and/or negative.

Quote: Eggers

A few people (most reacently Arc) have made an amazing point that I didn't even realize was a problem for me until now: there is such a disconnect between you and these characters this game.

I love Pokemon, I've played it since the original Blue Version came out. I name everyone of them that I can come up with a name for, but most especially the team that I'm going to use for the game. I name them, I train them, level them up and even teach them moves. It becomes a journey with you and your team, as ridiculous as that sounds.

In Giants, I had a Pokemon approach (including eventually needing to "catch them all", but that's a whole different can of worms right there). I tried many out and eventually picked my favorites. I named them (except Spyro), I leveled them up and I taught them moves... sort of, thanks to buying paths and things of that nature. But most importantly, I trained them through heroic challenges! Sure, I felt compelled to do that for all my Skylanders to increase the use of each one, but I especially took joy in training "my team" in heroics. I had Spyro, Boomer, Ghost Roaster, Eye Brawl, Thumpback, Tree Rex, Swarm and Eruptor. That was my team in Giants, but I also had other favorites that I'd swap in and out of the lineup as well. Since Swap Force? I've used Boomer a great deal and Spyro as well. Ghost Roaster hasn't been on the portal more than twice... all the giants are more or less obliterated in their usefulness. I don't have a team anymore, they all just feel like "extra lives" with their own move set.

People may say I'm over thinking this, but I truly blame the lack of heroics for the disconnect with these guys. They aren't as much my skylanders anymore, barely even "my team". Now they are just figures and I hate it. I want that Pokemon feeling back with this game, but sadly the lack of heroics and the ability to work on my characters has really ruined that for me, as well as some of their ridiculous quests that have become more of a chore to complete. At least when I did quests before, I could show if off with a bronze/silver/gold hat. The stats may not have been the best, but it was the effort that hat showed off to anyone that I brought my characters over too. Anymore, my Boomer is no different from another sans the path I picked and the hat he wears.

That is a total disconnect from the characters and, essentially, the game.

I totally agree!

I mean heroic's were always hard to finish with Skylanders that are not my favorite but using someone like Wrecking Ball I could do them easy and they seemed to have more personality!

Arc and I have gone into decent size conversation / rants on "toys to life" becoming more dissonant in Swap Force. As imperfect as Heroics was...it did help enforce that concept. Yes people didn't like it related to the character purchase, and the actual implementation is mediocre. What they got right with heroics is that portal masters can do work that is saved to the figure--most of the work in Giants was allowed to be realized although they re-crunched the numbers. I can honestly tell that VV spent a lot of time mixing it up and adding value in many ways in this game, and I think that's totally cool. As harsh as I've been on the non-inclusion of Heroics...they did make some changes I did in fact liked.

Some of their S2/S3 character playability is mixed/muddled, but imo the biggest thing they should've done in Swap Force was : 1. give us a real villian not just slapstick humor by adding additional content/story (I like the idea of a battle specific chapter but it shouldn't count for the chapter total) and 2. ADJUST "toys to life" relative to Heroics, not just water it down. Let us battle harden our team, and let this work MOVE OVER TO THE NEXT GAME beyond just leveling up.

I feel TOTALLY helpless to improve my skylanders in Swap Force...and that's the first time I've felt this way as a portal master. I'm honestly shocked with the many questions we posed to VV that they didn't get this answer honest and straightforward--and a rebuttal from them as to why they didn't feel like having the ability to improve skylanders that can be understood game to game isn't a GREAT value add. I'd like to think they have a clue here, but now I don't know.

Quite simply--if they do that on #4 we'll be sitting in a much better spot.

Quote: GhostRoaster

Arc and I have gone into decent size conversation / rants on "toys to life" becoming more dissonant in Swap Force. As imperfect as Heroics was...it did help enforce that concept. Yes people didn't like it related to the character purchase, and the actual implementation is mediocre. What they got right with heroics is that portal masters can do work that is saved to the figure--most of the work in Giants was allowed to be realized although they re-crunched the numbers. I can honestly tell that VV spent a lot of time mixing it up and adding value in many ways in this game, and I think that's totally cool. As harsh as I've been on it's non-inclusion of Heroics...they did make some changes I did in fact liked.

Some of their S2/S3 character playability is mixed/muddled, but imo the biggest thing they should've done in Swap Force was : 1. give us a real villian not just slapstick humor by adding additional content/story (I like the idea of a battle specific chapter but it shouldn't count for the chapter total) and 2. ADJUST "toys to life" relative to Heroics, not just water it down. Let us battle harden our team, and let this work MOVE OVER TO THE NEXT GAME beyond just leveling up.

I feel TOTALLY helpless to improve my skylanders in Swap Force...and that's the first time I've felt this way as a portal master. I'm honestly shocked with the many questions we posed to VV that they didn't get this answer honest and straightforward--and a rebuttal from them as to why they didn't feel like having the ability to improve skylanders that can be understood game to game isn't a GREAT value add. I'd like to think they have a clue here, but now I don't know.

Quite simply--if they do that on #4 we'll be sitting in a much better spot.

Agree with this 1000 times over! There was no reason to wipe out heroics and all the effort I put forth. Again, I feel like this game does not reward effort like Giants did. My characters grew with me and, ultimately, there were some that I hated until I found how useful they were during heroics (looking at you, Whirlwind). Removing heroics and their boosts, and then out and out lying about it when asked about how heroic stats would transfer, that's just bad form! I really do hope they improve these things in the next one, especially since it's already hindering my interest in buying any further characters now that I've already hit rank 80. Can't say I'm going to want to keep dropping 80 - 100 dollars on new games when they keep taking things we like and tossing them straight into the trash can.