darkSpyro

Is Skylanders shooting itself in the foot by having so many variations of its figures?

With Spyro's Adventure, the main variant was the Legendary figures. There were a few others (blue Bash, red Drill Sargeant), but not many. Giants come out and those include Lightcores with series 2 reposes. The reposes give people a chance to get the ones that were missed, so it made some sense. Now, we are at the 3rd iteration of Skylanders with Swap Force. There are 16 swap-able and 16 non-swap-able figures. There will be Lengendary, Lightcore, and variants of those. Series 2 and 3 reposes are included with variants of them, ie Ninja Stealth Elf and Dark Ninja Stealth Elf.

This just comes across as a massive money grab. Granted, it is up to the consumer to buy what they want, but could Skylanders be alienating people by being so obvious about it? Just like Giants, I won't be getting them all. I didn't buy any reposes and my kids didn't like any of the Lightcores. I've heard that the designers are already working on Skylanders 4. I guess this is to be expected with any successful franchise. Only problem now is Skylanders has to compete with Disney Infinity and that will draw consumer dollars away.

I very much agree. Whilst people like myself (using my son as an excuse to buy), can get sucked in very easily and get addicted to wanting to get that extra variant etc every time they're released, it's just starting to get very complicated to keep track of them all and organised etc.

Then Activision are also confusing the life out of people with exclusives left right and centre enticing multiple buys of the same thing, never giving any clear announcements or solid info, and also even for the younger ones who want the sets and rely on the posters to keep them right, the posters end up missing loads too (or with 2 variations of the poster, console and 3ds version)

The big upside of Disney Infinity at the moment (other than being disgruntled about the blind packs of power discs), is that there's a very limited set range, and they seem to be very clear about sets being widely available, 'series' of power discs in waves, and no random box of console sets with xx figure in the box exclusives etc that feel much more confident in being able to manage that collection well

The downside to the cost of Infinity is the sheer library of characters that Disney possesses. They have only shown us a small sampling of what they can do - right now it is mostly Pixar properties and anything that Johnny Depp has done. They haven't even unveiled their old-school films (peter pan, jungle book, etc), and there has been no mention of Star Wars or Marvel so far. Even if they were to make, and you were to purchase, only 1 of each character, you'd still wind up with more characters than the Skylanders games, including repaints.

Personally, I am already heavily invested in the Skylanders series. I have most figures (no rock, flocked, GITD, etc. variants), and will likely continue to purchase the whole set for SF. I don't have the funds or desire to get into Infinity.

They're not required to play the game, so no, they're not shooting themselves in the foot. Now, if they required every figure to 100% the game, then they would be playing with fire.

However, variants in Skylanders are an option, not mandatory. They're there for those who want them. Those who don't can simply pass on them and get what they feel they must.

Quote: big_matt

The downside to the cost of Infinity is the sheer library of characters that Disney possesses. They have only shown us a small sampling of what they can do - right now it is mostly Pixar properties and anything that Johnny Depp has done. They haven't even unveiled their old-school films (peter pan, jungle book, etc), and there has been no mention of Star Wars or Marvel so far. Even if they were to make, and you were to purchase, only 1 of each character, you'd still wind up with more characters than the Skylanders games, including repaints.

Personally, I am already heavily invested in the Skylanders series. I have most figures (no rock, flocked, GITD, etc. variants), and will likely continue to purchase the whole set for SF. I don't have the funds or desire to get into Infinity.

Don't forget they're releasing two characters from a film that doesn't release until November (Frozen).

Another downside to Infinity, is that some (me and others) will pay 14 dollars for characters that can only play in a do-it-yourself sandbox. No 10 hour playset for them, meaning one is paying 14 bucks for the right to play as a character in 1 of 2 aspects of the game. That's a ripoff if you ask me.

Well, my two cents on this topic is that IF we ever get all chase variants for SSA and Giants, I'm not going to do the same for Swap Force. I'm going to let my son tell me which characters he really wants to try out in the game, and we'll get those when we can. When I think about the time and funds we spent chasing these over the last year, there were a lot of great moments and father/son time that was well spent. This is one thing we have in common and enjoy together, but a fishing trip is so much cheaper! Disney is not our thing (thank God!), so we are definitely not going down that road, but yeah when I saw the "Dark Starter Pack", my heart sank. I realized there is no way we are going to be able to keep up when we are still trying to get golds, silvers, purples, stones, etc... They made a good thing, capitalized on collector's "must have them all" mentality, then pushed it over the edge. If Pokemon said with each new wave "now you need to collect all of these new ones, plus a Dark Pikachu, a rare pink Pikachu, and a Pikachu with his ear slightly crooked to the side, etc...." People would do it, but it wouldn't cost them ten to fifteen dollars a pop.......or even into the hundreds.

I think that variants are definitely a cool option that isn't required. BUT ... I also think Activision is going to shoot themselves in the foot if they go too far (if they haven't already). They want "collecting them all" to be a reasonable option, something people will strive to do. They want people to buy multiple version of the same figure. If they go too far, then they risk breaking the precarious balance they have with some of the non-hardcore collectors. Once it gets too expensive, there are too many or it becomes too much of a pain to collect them all, then more people move into the "only the ones I like" category. And that category buys significantly less figures. Reposes, variants, lightcores and unpopular designs all fall off the edge once someone decides to not collect them all.

- The vast majority of players are kids/people that will only get a dozen or so per game - these people benefit from having more options.
- Second are people that get only the new ones - variants have little impact.
- Third are the casual collectors, they get them all - but one of each.
- Fourth are the serious collectors that get one to open, one to play and might get extra packaged variants.
- Fifth are the hardcore collectors, they get them all and get multiple of each. Hi Gamemaster.

If the variant/character load gets too high then almost all of group 3 and a significant portion of 4 move to 2 or even 1 or even quit the franchise in frustration. That's bad for the bottom line, because while they do not number as high as 1, they buy way more figures per person. And one could argue this whole "can't complete your collection for one game till the next is out" is also weighing on this equation. You don't want to give people too many reasons to re-evaluate buying a fourth or fifth (or more!) version of the same character or they start to think about their whole buying priority.

This is also why figures come out in waves rather than all at once. If you put too much on someone's plate at once then they will be more likely to notice how much it is.

I think--based on my opinion and assumption--that Disney will have many many more figures. They have so many franchises to choose from. But that, as I said, is my opinion. We are getting the game and my son has chosen the figures he likes--we are not collecting as we do with Skylanders.

I am not sure if Activision's decision to make lots of figures will hurt them. Somehow I'm inclined to say--overall-- it will not. Because they have departments full of people whose sole purpose is marketing. I doubt that they will lose customers--in total. Where they lose some they gain others. I guess companies can be wrong, companies go out of business every day. But I guess I believe Activision is large and experienced enough that they know what they're doing.

Personally we will likely fall into one of defpally's categories. I am not sure if we will continue to buy 2 of every one sold...and one of every variant package sold. We love Skylanders. We will continue with 2 of everything sold but may leave out the chase variants. I can't say for sure what we will do. But collecting like we have for SSA & Giants, isn't a given as it has been in the past. I hope we can. We will still enjoy it as a family no natter what. I don't have any hard feelings towards the company. They have to grow and continue however they feel is best for company.

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I like what Gamemaster said--you don't need ALL figures to play and complete
the game. If you did--that would be bad on the company's side. You don't have to collect them all to enjoy the game.

I agree.. this is getting out of hand. i collected dark spyro and only picked up the 3ds version for him & him alone & the legendaries ACTUALLY seemed RLY special to have back then, especially with them being a permanent TRU exclusive. They used to be a big wow factor to have. now not so much.... giants started releasing way too many & now with all these darks? i actually saw the original Dark Spyro as his own character but now the new dark variants are just more recolors.... legendaries don't seem special anymore & i agree the variants are going too far :/ i doubt i'll be ''getting them all'' this time.

Skylanders really does give you the power of choice.

From what I understand, or at least assume, is that Infinity figures unlock stuff for the Toy Box. So, unless you buy all figures, you aren't getting every item unlocked for the Toy Box. Strike 1 against Infinity.

You cannot play Infinity CO-OP out of the box, due to Sully, Jack, and Mr. Incredible being tied to their own worlds. If Tiny Tim could only get the Starter Pack, due to his parents not having much money, but he wants to play with his sister, they will be trading off controllers, unless they pick up Mike, Barbosa/Davy Jones, Mrs. Incredible/Dash/Violet. Strike 2.

However, now that Skylanders don't unlock Heroics anymore, starting with Swap Force, that means one who is on a budget can buy whatever character they feel like owning, they can do so without missing crucial parts of the game. Rather, wait. I mean you need 5 characters at most. A Life, Fire, Earth, Air, and Undead if you got into Skylanders with the first game, or a Magic, Earth, Water, Fire, and Tech Skylander if you got into the game with Giants.

From the time you bring home a Skylanders Starter Pack, you can play 2 players, since ALL characters work in ALL levels.

I think there's more value to be had in Skylanders, honestly. Maybe it's because there is an overall lore to it, thanks to the games, story scrolls, and novels. There's a reason the "Dark Skylanders" exist. There's even lore behind the "Legendary Skylanders." There is no lore behind the "Crystal" versions of characters like Jack Sparrow, Sully, and Mr. Incredible.

This is all me, however. No one is forced to buy Darks, Legendaries, Chase Variants, Alter Egos, etc, in order to complete the game. Infinity is now making it where if you want to fully tap out Toy Box, you better buy all figures, playsets, and blind-packed Power Discs. Imagine how much people are going to pay to get all 60 of those discs?

Infinity is a completely different type of game. Stop comparing them. They both have physical toys and a portal and that's it. It isn't your kind of game (and not really mine either), but many people love sandbox games like Minecraft.

Yeah they are making you buy all the stuff individually and figures are pretty darn expensive, but like you say, no one is forcing people to use Jack Skellington to play with the Toy Box, nor is there a way to "finish the game". You can complete every task in the game with the included contents. You can play Co-op in the Toy Box, which is the meat of the game. Having all the widgets in the Toy Box is up to people to decide.

People I know are into collecting variants because they either enjoy having exclusive characters or enjoy selling it to others. GameMaster78 made a convincing point. Collecting figures is not really needed in the game itself granted if you want all the heroics and all but since Swap Force isn't even going to have H.C.s it makes me think that Acti isn't trying to make us buy figures to do more in the game. Also, no one needs to buy varients at all unless you're into collecting figures and all that jazz. Needless to say, Activision isn't killing itself with variants

EDIT: I think I lost track of what I wanted to say.

I am ordering a dark for myself. My son wants the regular cause he loves how wash buckler looks. I like spyro so another dark spyro is fine by me. Will i buy 2 darks etc, prob not.

Random question, is tru still doing preorder that give you a single and lc hex and can i do it for the ps4? I did my preorder for wii u and 3ds but now it looks I might get a ps4 so i might cancel one of those or add to it.

Variants and exclusives are there to get people into the stores.
They are there to KEEP you in the stores.
They are there to KEEP you looking in the stores.

Why make them rare? Activision don't make money on them above normal retail, the hundreds they go for on eBay goes nowhere near Activision, so why make them rare?

They build up the desire for these rare figures and kids and collectors spend ages looking in stores for them. It keeps the brand alive in peoples minds.

Also, while you are there, looking at figures, "Oh, I don't have this one... May as well get it while we are here."

I think having SO many of them will hurt them in the long run, they won't be so desirable any more. You make something rare less rare? Everybody knows what happens.

I think--based on my opinion and assumption--that Disney will have many many more figures. They have so many franchises to choose from. But that, as I said, is my opinion. We are getting the game and my son has chosen the figures he likes--we are not collecting as we do with Skylanders.

I am not sure if Activision's decision to make lots of figures will hurt them. Somehow I'm inclined to say--overall-- it will not. Because they have departments full of people whose sole purpose is marketing. I doubt that they will lose customers--in total. Where they lose some they gain others. I guess companies can be wrong, companies go out of business every day. But I guess I believe Activision is large and experienced enough that they know what they're doing.

Personally we will likely fall into one of defpally's categories. I am not sure if we will continue to buy 2 of every one sold...and one of every variant package sold. We love Skylanders. We will continue with 2 of everything sold but may leave out the chase variants. I can't say for sure what we will do. But collecting like we have for SSA & Giants, isn't a given as it has been in the past. I hope we can. We will still enjoy it as a family no natter what. I don't have any hard feelings towards the company. They have to grow and continue however they feel is best for company.

.
I like what Gamemaster said--you don't need ALL figures to play and complete
the game. If you did--that would be bad on the company's side. You don't have to collect them all to enjoy the game.

Neither the PS4 nor the XBONE is listed as LC Hex on TRU as part of their bundle. They don't list it as a bonus in the entry, but the title for them is:

Skylanders Swapforce Starter Pack for Xbox One
Skylanders Swapforce Starter Kit for Sony PS4

versus

Skylanders SWAP Force Starter Kit for Sony PS3 with free Skylanders Lightcore Hex Figure Bundle
Skylanders SWAP Force Starter Kit for Nintendo Wii U with free Skylanders Lightcore Hex Figure Bundle

Likewise, Gamestop does not list the bonus for PS4 or XBONE, however they also do not list it for the Dark Packs either - which we know is wrong according to the press release and information from the stores. The thing is the next gen versions will not be coming out on 10/13 since the consoles will not be out yet. They are likely sending out LC Hex with the initial shipments for 10/13, so who knows if they will send more for the next gen versions. I'm thinking not, so unless the stores have enough and you find a store you can talk into it you probably won't get Hex for the PS4/XBONE versions. They need to clarify this, because by the time you find out it will be too late to get her with one of the other consoles.

Quote: imanirox890

People I know are into collecting variants because they either enjoy having exclusive characters or enjoy selling it to others. GameMaster78 made a convincing point. Collecting figures is not really needed in the game itself granted if you want all the heroics and all but since Swap Force isn't even going to have H.C.s it makes me think that Acti isn't trying to make us buy figures to do more in the game. Also, no one needs to buy varients at all unless you're into collecting figures and all that jazz. Needless to say, Activision isn't killing itself with variants

EDIT: I think I lost track of what I wanted to say.

Exactly. What I've been seeing lately, is a lot of people looking for anything they can to fault Skylanders. However, they're not seeing any good choices made.

While I liked having Skylanders unlock Heroics, meaning we got access to 45 mini-levels in Giants, not everyone can get all figures, so they opted for 20 bonus missions instead. 20 is better than nothing.

It's almost like people are trying to find ways to hate on Skylanders, as if they need an excuse to fall out from the brand, in lue of supporting the competition or save money.

I used to do it when I was a blind - broke - gaming fanboy. I only liked Nintendo systems, because that's all I could afford. So, I bashed anything Sega made, but deep down, I always wanted to play the Genesis and games like Sonic and Lunar.

Once I could afford all gaming systems, I stopped fanboy-nosebleeding all over the place and started seeing why each system was worth owning. Now, I have no bias for any system. I have likes and dislikes for all of them, but wouldn't ever want to be a gamer without them.

While I dog on Infinity, due to the lack of what it can offer me (basically I will only be playing with the Playsets), I am still buying it. I don't harbor bias because I like Skylanders more, and it shows with me buying Infinity.

I have a life, so I can't spend my life getting fat on a couch, making levels for others to enjoy, and not get paid for it, when I need to sell a movie to see this huge rock before I'm maggot snacks. That's just my take on it. So, I will only get pleasure from one aspect of the game. That's why I still say Skylanders is a longer game, because mastering it (all Skylanders 9/9 quests, all Arena Challenges done, all Skystones gotten, all Heroics done for all Series 1, 2, Newlanders, Lightcores, and Giants, and 3 starring games 1 and 2) isn't something that can be done in weeks if you ask me.

I think the biggest thing to remember is that we represent a very small percentage of the Skylanders users. Might be the most obsessive... Might even be a bit crazy...

But most people will just get the game, buy a small amount of extras and then just move on.

Activision isn't making all these things for us, they are making them for the masses mostly. And variety is usually good for the masses. More options on the shelf increase the possibility of purchases.

Easy example is female characters. My wife couldn't care less about Skylanders OR video games at all. But when my son and I went to the store she wanted Chill because she was a girl.

Another example is Hot Wheels cars. There are tons of hot wheels cars, and I bet there are hard core fans that try to collect all of them. But once in a while when we're at the store I let my son get a couple. We go home, race them a bit and throw them in a basket with the others.

So, if you accept the fact that Skylanders is not something to collect, but just have fun with, then the quantity of everything isn't a bad thing. It's good, there's so many cool options to pick from!!!

Quote: defpally

I think that variants are definitely a cool option that isn't required. BUT ... I also think Activision is going to shoot themselves in the foot if they go too far (if they haven't already). They want "collecting them all" to be a reasonable option, something people will strive to do. They want people to buy multiple version of the same figure. If they go too far, then they risk breaking the precarious balance they have with some of the non-hardcore collectors. Once it gets too expensive, there are too many or it becomes too much of a pain to collect them all, then more people move into the "only the ones I like" category. And that category buys significantly less figures. Reposes, variants, lightcores and unpopular designs all fall off the edge once someone decides to not collect them all.

- The vast majority of players are kids/people that will only get a dozen or so per game - these people benefit from having more options.
- Second are people that get only the new ones - variants have little impact.
- Third are the casual collectors, they get them all - but one of each.
- Fourth are the serious collectors that get one to open, one to play and might get extra packaged variants.
- Fifth are the hardcore collectors, they get them all and get multiple of each. Hi Gamemaster.

If the variant/character load gets too high then almost all of group 3 and a significant portion of 4 move to 2 or even 1 or even quit the franchise in frustration. That's bad for the bottom line, because while they do not number as high as 1, they buy way more figures per person. And one could argue this whole "can't complete your collection for one game till the next is out" is also weighing on this equation. You don't want to give people too many reasons to re-evaluate buying a fourth or fifth (or more!) version of the same character or they start to think about their whole buying priority.

This is also why figures come out in waves rather than all at once. If you put too much on someone's plate at once then they will be more likely to notice how much it is.

agree especially knowing what activi$ion is capable of

Quote: GamerDrone

Is Skylanders shooting itself in the foot by having so many variations of its figures?

With Spyro's Adventure, the main variant was the Legendary figures. There were a few others (blue Bash, red Drill Sargeant), but not many. Giants come out and those include Lightcores with series 2 reposes. The reposes give people a chance to get the ones that were missed, so it made some sense. Now, we are at the 3rd iteration of Skylanders with Swap Force. There are 16 swap-able and 16 non-swap-able figures. There will be Lengendary, Lightcore, and variants of those. Series 2 and 3 reposes are included with variants of them, ie Ninja Stealth Elf and Dark Ninja Stealth Elf.

This just comes across as a massive money grab. Granted, it is up to the consumer to buy what they want, but could Skylanders be alienating people by being so obvious about it? Just like Giants, I won't be getting them all. I didn't buy any reposes and my kids didn't like any of the Lightcores. I've heard that the designers are already working on Skylanders 4. I guess this is to be expected with any successful franchise. Only problem now is Skylanders has to compete with Disney Infinity and that will draw consumer dollars away.

I am going to answer the question in the title of this thread with a definitive "NO".
I maintain that Disney Infinity will have a far lesser impact than what most fans seem to believe (or want to believe, in some cases).
And, yes, of course a successful franchise is going to expand! If it wasn't expanding, there would be people complaining about that, instead.
On a "fan craziness scale" between zero (not interested in Skylanders at all) to 10 (insane Skylanders fan/collector), I would probably rate an 8 or a 9, and I can say for certain that the expansion of SwapForce hasn't alienated me one bit. If anything, it's got me more excited about Skylanders than ever before.
Is the sheer volume of new Skylanders and variants a bit overwhelming? Hell yes.
Will I be buying one of every new figurine? Hell no. That's cost prohibitive at this point.

I think anyone who is having difficulty adjusting to the sheer volume of new upcoming characters needs to realize that ...
A) these SwapForce figurines will be released painfully slowly over the course of 12+ months, and
B ) YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BUY THEM ALL to be satisfied with your collection. Breaking free of the "completionist" mentality will go a long way toward restoring some sanity and enjoyment in the Skylanders games.

I don't feel that I have to buy them all, nor will I. Giants, with its S2 reposes, made Skylanders seem like a money-grab and Swap Force seems to be pushing it even further. I curious about the numbers for this game. Are sales going to increase with this iteration or will they remain the same or even drop? Overall, I shouldn't be surprised when you consider kids' toys in general. Successful franchises make variants of the original product all the time.

Quote: BahamutBreaker

B ) YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BUY THEM ALL to be satisfied with your collection. Breaking free of the "completionist" mentality will go a long way toward restoring some sanity and enjoyment in the Skylanders games.

What you say is true, but I think this is the logic that Activision definitely does not want people to have. It doesn't just mean I'll skip a few, it usually means I'll skip a whole or most of a line if I cannot collect them all. For example, if I weren't all in for reposes, I would have maybe bought just 4 or 5 instead of 24. I would have bought 1 or 2 instead of 9 lightcores. I wouldn't have bought all the variants, maybe just 1 or none, and the ones I did I wouldn't have gotten the regular version. The problem is that first step down is a BIG one. Once you accept that you aren't going to get them all that takes a whole bunch of figures off your list. The more variants they make, the more people go "well, they have crossed my line".

For example, starting with Giants I wasn't going to worry about Lightcores. I got Prism Break on Day 1, because I like him - he was one of my favorites. I ended up deciding to get them all, but that was the only reason I bought LC Drobot and LC Eruptor. Those figures stink. The rest aren't a big deal either.

Put it this way, for yourself. If you weren't trying to complete your collection, would you have bought S2 Drill Sergeant? Whirlwind? Eruptor? Most of Series 2? How many figures would you have left off your list if completing your collection wasn't the goal. Think about it.

The risk I am talking about here is reaching critical mass in crossing that line for your average collector. The people that are 7-9 or so on your scale. Turning someone that will buy 50+ figures into someone that buys 20 or less, only the ones they like. If they release too many that is a real risk. Activision doesn't want to break your "completionist" mentality, they want you to try and hunt them all down.

Yes I whole heartily agree that they are shooting themselves in the foot. I believe that they are setting a threshold that will break MANY of the "Collect them all" mindset, which will be a big problem. Without the "Collect them all" mindset, what real reason will people have to buy characters that come out after they have beaten the game after the first month? The only thing that appears to be worthwhile in buying after you've beaten the game will be the second Adventure pack, in that you will now be able to play another level. This will given maybe a couple more hours of gameplay and then the game will once again become stale.

For my family, we have continued to buy Eye Brawl, Thumpback, Ninjini, LCs, variants, etc in 2013 because we wanted to fill out our collection. I'd spend an hour or two on each new skylanders leveling them up and doing HCs because I felt obligated to do something with them before they went into the case with the others.

This having to buy multiple starter packs to "collect them all" has crossed a threshold for me and yes we'll still buy SSF, but I won't be "collecting them all". It will be interesting to see how many we continue to buy after we are bored with the game, I'm betting not many. Hence, in respect to my buying habits, they have definitely shot themselves in the foot.

But there will always be GM78s out there who are so financially and emotionally invested in their collections that their threshold is much farther out there than mine. I'm guessing that most cannot put a clear line as to where their threshold would be that would break the "collect them all" mindset because they'd probably not know it until it's crossed.

To extend this perspective, had I gone with my original plan, I would have been done buying figures in February - the day Ninjini came out. I wouldn't have bought anything beyond Wave 3, since all of the new unique figures were out. I definitely wouldn't have bought $30 worth of chips for Sidekicks. Interest would have waned 6 months prior to the next game.

The absolute worst thing they can do this go round is make figures exclusive to bundles. Who is going to buy a new console for this year's Gnarly Tree Rex (before he hit as a single)? Are people really going to go for a new iPhone Starter pack? What if regular Wash Buckler, Blast Zone and Ninja Stealth Elf and the 3DS figures don't come out individually, how many people are going to buy multiple Starter Packs given the Dark Pack exclusives?

If you have any slight feeling of going for it this time around, the Dark Starter Pack is the way to go. At least that option is available on Day 1. Those figures will probably dry up quickly and not get individual releases. Buy the variant version (Nitro Magna Charge, for example) first, because those will be the ones hardest to find. Leave the standard ones for later since they will probably be findable (although S2 Slam Bam says otherwise...). Come up with a plan that doesn't involve resorting to EBay if you do change your mind.

And to ask an open question to all (minus Gamemaster, who we know the answer), what do you consider to be your own breaking point? 56 figures before variants are factored in, which we already are aware of a dozen variants (counting dark, legendary, other). You will need at least a dark console starter and the 3DS starter (Volcanic Eruptor likely won't get a single given history), and maybe a regular console starter. Let's say variants get up to 20, or higher. When do you say "enough". When do you stop collecting them all, and if you aren't how many figures do you get instead of the known 70+? And for Gamemaster, you have stated your desire to display all Swapper combinations, when do you say "no more" as the number of combinations grows exponentially with each new Swapper variant (we are up to 21x21 now, right)?

To me, not getting them all lifts a tremendous burden, and as Bahamut said, and probably infuses more fun into it with much less work. But the question isn't about what it does for ME, it is what it does for ACTIVISION.

BTW, great topic, it really gets you thinking.

Quote: defpally

And to ask an open question to all (minus Gamemaster, who we know the answer), what do you consider to be your own breaking point?

When the wife says "No".

Hmmm--I don't know yet. I'm not sure I can specify what that point is. But when we decide there is too much for us to keep collecting the "all sold" which we have previously done. We would not stop collecting--just change what and how we actually collect. We would only stop if it was something our son no longer enjoyed. Unless something crazy happened like the figures cost $100 each or something along those lines.

I'm still just glad they're releasing all darks at the same time and together. To me, that's convienant. Less hunting I have to do troughout swap force's lifecycle

Quote: GamerDrone

Is Skylanders shooting itself in the foot by having so many variations of its figures?

With Spyro's Adventure, the main variant was the Legendary figures. There were a few others (blue Bash, red Drill Sargeant), but not many. Giants come out and those include Lightcores with series 2 reposes. The reposes give people a chance to get the ones that were missed, so it made some sense. Now, we are at the 3rd iteration of Skylanders with Swap Force. There are 16 swap-able and 16 non-swap-able figures. There will be Lengendary, Lightcore, and variants of those. Series 2 and 3 reposes are included with variants of them, ie Ninja Stealth Elf and Dark Ninja Stealth Elf.

This just comes across as a massive money grab. Granted, it is up to the consumer to buy what they want, but could Skylanders be alienating people by being so obvious about it? Just like Giants, I won't be getting them all. I didn't buy any reposes and my kids didn't like any of the Lightcores. I've heard that the designers are already working on Skylanders 4. I guess this is to be expected with any successful franchise. Only problem now is Skylanders has to compete with Disney Infinity and that will draw consumer dollars away.

yes. Too many figures, not enough content. It's waaayyy too slanted on the toys.

As mentioned before, it's not necessarily a bad financial decision if Activision makes some (or most) of the casual collectors give up their habit and become 'I will buy whatever I find really awsome and don't care about the rest at all' consumers of the franchise, I guess they still won't have any problem selling 99% of their SSF products.

On the other hand, you just simply cannot produce 20-40% more of your product every year and expect to sell them all (I assume the total number of SSA and SG toys produced are somehow proportional to how many types of charachters are in the series.) for obvious reasons, like competition and so on.

I guess they'll continue to 'slightly' push the numbers until it becomes less profitable, then just dump the whole franchise and invest their money in the next potentional cash cow. And I wouldn't consider this Acti shooting itselfs in the foot, they probably have a whole department whose only job is to calculate how they can maximize their profit with their games, so it'll pay off pretty well for them in the end. Using only common sense, it's logical that they don't necessarily want to keep alive the franchise for 10 years with decent numbers of toys, because there's a high chance it'll become boring and lose it's popularity as time passes. Long run investments are always more risky in case of rapidly changing markets, so making an insane profit over 3-4 years and then flush the whole thing down the toilet seems like a sane idea to me.

Quote: GameMaster78

It's almost like people are trying to find ways to hate on Skylanders, as if they need an excuse to fall out from the brand, in lue of supporting the competition or save money.

I could not agree more. Few people who are "hooked" would ever acknowledge or admit what you said, but you're spot on correct.

Quote: defpally

Put it this way, for yourself. If you weren't trying to complete your collection, would you have bought S2 Drill Sergeant? Whirlwind? Eruptor? Most of Series 2? How many figures would you have left off your list if completing your collection wasn't the goal. Think about it.

The risk I am talking about here is reaching critical mass in crossing that line for your average collector. The people that are 7-9 or so on your scale. Turning someone that will buy 50+ figures into someone that buys 20 or less, only the ones they like. If they release too many that is a real risk. Activision doesn't want to break your "completionist" mentality, they want you to try and hunt them all down.

As usual, you raise excellent points and have got my noodle working. For the record, I didn't buy S2 Drill Sergeant ... but that's beside the point. You are correct about the risk involved with releasing too many figures. But I would re-word you last statement for tense: "Activision WANTED you to try and hunt them all down". I fully agree that was their plan and motive during the Giants release cycle. I believe Activision is now, heading into the SwapForce release cycle, attempting to change the culture somewhat. I would wager that at this stage in the franchise's evolution, Activision will now begin strategizing and marketing to keep current fans "hooked" for years through several more game releases ... rather than focusing on trying to get every consumer to "gotta have them all!"

As collectors, we don't like unpredictability. That's one reason this particular forum is such a hotbed. So, this evolution towards more characters and variants will make a lot of people predictably uncomfortable. I believe that's part of the strategy, too ... since we know some collectors are neurotic enough that when they get uncomfortable .... they buy more (as a perceived means to exert control), rather than less.

All in all, we can question, bash, and scrutinize every single decision that Activision makes regarding Skylanders ... and of course, like anything human, they're prone to mistakes. But I also think it's important to recognize that Activision knows what it is doing. There's no way in hell that they would have bought-out their business partner a week or two ago, effectively now "flying solo", unless they were VERY confident in their future profitability and planning.
Good discussion here so far, for the most part; well done, team.

Quote: UncleBob

Quote: defpally

And to ask an open question to all (minus Gamemaster, who we know the answer), what do you consider to be your own breaking point?

When the wife says "No".

LOL...now that was funny...no fair joking about the truth their brother.

And on the topic...i don't think there shooting themselfs in the foot...they are pushing it a bit with the sheer numbers of slylanders their releasing. 56 is a bit much...and thats just the regulars not including the varients, witch looks like it will be over 15...maybe close to 20 varients. Yeah i know their releasing them over a 12+ month period. Thats just way to many.

But like lidocain said...
Quote:

....invest their money in the next potentional cash cow.....they probably have a whole department whose only job is to calculate how they can maximize their profit with their games, so it'll pay off pretty well for them in the end.

Their a video game company, their in the business to make money.
EDIT: ...by the way, i own as many as i could fine..so i to am a colector not a uber one like GM is...lol...but i do like collecting them i have full standered sets of both SSA an Giants....all im missing is LC Hex. I have many varients. i don't know how many of the new ones i will get right now, but i am getting the "Dark" starter set.

Here's the main problem as far as reposes.

The games use the old figures and people want all the various characters.

However, stores *don't*. There's a reason you don't see a lot of space dedicated to S:SA figures. They're not huge sellers.

So, Activision has to strike a balance - don't release any of the old guys at all and tick off parents or keep re-releasing old figures and try to force retailers to order them. Neither one of those are good for anyone.

Thus, you have the reposes. You get "new" figures that still sell to both old fans who really liked that character or want to collect them all and you get "old" figures that sell to the new fans who missed their chance to get that character the first time around.

While I'd *love* for them to release nothing but new characters, I realize that just cannot happen.

Quote: UncleBob

Here's the main problem as far as reposes.

The games use the old figures and people want all the various characters.

However, stores *don't*. There's a reason you don't see a lot of space dedicated to S:SA figures. They're not huge sellers.

So, Activision has to strike a balance - don't release any of the old guys at all and tick off parents or keep re-releasing old figures and try to force retailers to order them. Neither one of those are good for anyone.

Thus, you have the reposes. You get "new" figures that still sell to both old fans who really liked that character or want to collect them all and you get "old" figures that sell to the new fans who missed their chance to get that character the first time around.

While I'd *love* for them to release nothing but new characters, I realize that just cannot happen.

They should just sell them online at activision.com and mail them out from the same services that do the warranty repairs. Even if they charged shipping enough ppl that needed a few would buy them.

Quote: UncleBob

Quote: defpally

And to ask an open question to all (minus Gamemaster, who we know the answer), what do you consider to be your own breaking point?

When the wife says "No".

Whoops. Nice knowing y'all!

Quote: UncleBob

Here's the main problem as far as reposes.

The games use the old figures and people want all the various characters.

However, stores *don't*. There's a reason you don't see a lot of space dedicated to S:SA figures. They're not huge sellers.

So, Activision has to strike a balance - don't release any of the old guys at all and tick off parents or keep re-releasing old figures and try to force retailers to order them. Neither one of those are good for anyone.

Thus, you have the reposes. You get "new" figures that still sell to both old fans who really liked that character or want to collect them all and you get "old" figures that sell to the new fans who missed their chance to get that character the first time around.

While I'd *love* for them to release nothing but new characters, I realize that just cannot happen.

i have no problem with the reposed at first, as you said shops dont want to get old figures because of economic reasons. but it gets a bit of a dilemma when people want figures from the first game and they cant get them. so activision created the new reposes, the shops want these because their new and can sell better. now the people that couldnt get the figures from the first game can buy these new variants and they will be usable on both games, the old and new...

its all a good idea at first but here is what makes it suck big time. to unlock all the heroics in the new game, so you can upgrade your new figures you need to buy all reposes. what they should have done is let the old figures unlock the heroics in the new game, so there wasnt a need to buy the reposes if people had all from the first game. this would have been much more fair for us all and this is what activision should have done.

with the swap force they drop the heroics from the figures. this is a good thing but you never know what will be the next 'must buy' figure to unlock or upgrade powers in the game gimmick. i just hope they dropped all this, this time around...

because they have said that you dont need to buy all to play the game, but this have been a half truth for a long time now. if you want to max out a your favorite your will be forced to get all the heroics...

with this said, i am not a collector and are not going for every darn variants out there... thats a bit of madness if you ask me. but my goal is to get all the original variants and then buy a few reposes/variants of the original variants if i feel like it.... with the giants this choice wasn't there
because of heroics locked to the figures... so i hope they do the right thing with swap force...

I don't like the news of them removing the Heroic Challenges from Swap Force. I liked the Heroic Challenges...i thought they where cool an fun to do. And if there droping the Heroics from the new game how are the new skylanders going to get the stat increases.....i know you can just put the S2, S3 of first and the second game on the Giants game a get them there ststs increase....but what about the Swap Force S1's?....how do you give them the stat increases?

I do hate that they removed Heroics from Swap Force. I know they replaced them with 20 bonus missions, but 20 compared to 32 and 45 means less.

I mean granted there were 18 new Heroics in Giants, while the rest were duplicates of Heroics from the first game, but I wish they would have done at least 32 Bonus Missions or more.

I still want to know how you upgrade a Skylander's speed, armor, critical hit, and elemental power in Swap Force? If the 20 missions allowed for upgrades, and they evened it out, that would only be 4 Speed, 4 critical hit, 4 armor, and 4 elemental power Bonus Missions. That would make the newlanders and swaplanders suck stat wise.

Now that I think about it, I hope there are other ways to boost stats in that game.

Quote: BahamutBreaker

Quote: GameMaster78

It's almost like people are trying to find ways to hate on Skylanders, as if they need an excuse to fall out from the brand, in lue of supporting the competition or save money.

I could not agree more. Few people who are "hooked" would ever acknowledge or admit what you said, but you're spot on correct.

Lots of good thoughts in here, however I do take issue to this. It isn't "hating on" Skylanders. I'm one of the ones making the point they are going to far, but I absolutely do not hate Skylanders. Me and my sons love them. We have a complete collection for Giants and SSA. I grumbled about the premium price, but ran out at lunch yesterday and pre-ordered the Dark Starter, and will probably pick up a regular one around Black Friday. I will also get the 3DS version. I don't want the franchise to fail, I want it to be strong - however, that doesn't mean I like everything they are doing. We know they read here, maybe some of the input might be taken to heart.

Now, of course, there ARE some that want the franchise to fail, as there are those that have an irrational desire for Infinity to fail despite its differences. Everytime a new MMO comes out, it is predicted as a WoW killer. Everytime a point and click adventure comes out, it is a Diablo killer. New football games are Madden killers. And so on. Some people just want to see the king of the hill fall.

Quote: UncleBob

When the wife says "No".

I laughed. Truer words have never been spoken.

Quote: GameMaster78

I do hate that they removed Heroics from Swap Force. I know they replaced them with 20 bonus missions, but 20 compared to 32 and 45 means less.

I mean granted there were 18 new Heroics in Giants, while the rest were duplicates of Heroics from the first game, but I wish they would have done at least 32 Bonus Missions or more.

I still want to know how you upgrade a Skylander's speed, armor, critical hit, and elemental power in Swap Force? If the 20 missions allowed for upgrades, and they evened it out, that would only be 4 Speed, 4 critical hit, 4 armor, and 4 elemental power Bonus Missions. That would make the newlanders and swaplanders suck stat wise.

Now that I think about it, I hope there are other ways to boost stats in that game.

when they removed the heroics from the figures.. it saved me from buying 60+ figures to get all the heroics... so im happy with that.. i now only need the 16+16 and spyro...

you upgrade when you do the bonus mission... and i guess there will be a few extra bonus mission in the adventure packs to...

Quote: UncleBob

Quote: defpally

And to ask an open question to all (minus Gamemaster, who we know the answer), what do you consider to be your own breaking point?

When the wife says "No".

Not to bump an old topic, but...

The wife and I was watching the Legend of Korra on the DVR. A SWAP Force commercial came on and I made her back it up so I could watch it. After the point where it said something about "256 character swaps", I said "256 new figures... where am I going to keep them all?" - to which my wonderfully lovely wife said "I'm going to kill myself..." She's too good to me.

Quote: UncleBob

The wife and I was watching the Legend of Korra on the DVR. A SWAP Force commercial came on and I made her back it up so I could watch it. After the point where it said something about "256 character swaps", I said "256 new figures... where am I going to keep them all?" - to which my wonderfully lovely wife said "I'm going to kill myself..." She's too good to me.

I feel your pain

Quote: GameMaster78

They're not required to play the game, so no, they're not shooting themselves in the foot. Now, if they required every figure to 100% the game, then they would be playing with fire.

However, variants in Skylanders are an option, not mandatory. They're there for those who want them. Those who don't can simply pass on them and get what they feel they must.

Correct. The fire in this is the feeling of regret, desperation and exasperation of those that have made the decision to "get them all". As others have stated (defpally I believe), the LC Hex is the shot over the bow that you should just get that out of your head.

From that perspective, if that's what you plan on doing...you better set aside 2x or 3x what you originally intended. I'm not kidding.

Uncle: Cool on the commercial. I'll be on the lookout for it.

Im sure this is somewhere but not sure where. . .
Where would I find a list of all wave 1 packs that also specifies what store for store exclusives.? Please pm to me if anybody has list...spreadsheet. ..lol
Thanks

I think they are creating too many figures this round. In SSA there were only about 30 characters or so. In giants, 24 reposes, 8 new regulars and 8 giants. Oh and 8 lightcores. So that's over 50. Now they got over 60 figures this time around. It actually bothers me as a collector to see the number keep rising especially when its the swaps that will cost the most. 16 figures for $15 a piece? And no real discount for the 2pks. This round bothers me because of that. Part of me hopes they don't make a 4 for a few years just so we can recover from this round and be able to get the new ones. I can it being 80 figures in 4 just from looking at the pattern. Don't get me wrong. I love skylanders and I love the figures but in the end, the average family cant afford all this and I know it breaks the parents hearts to have to pick and choose which to get instead of being able to get them all. Some of you probably think "well then don't spoil them". It has nothing to do with spoiling if the parent enjoys the game with the kids. Another form of bonding. Maybe a bit on the obsessive side when they cant find a certain figure but that's anyone. I guess they will stop making games when they run out of figure ideas.

Quote: shelly9871

Im sure this is somewhere but not sure where. . .
Where would I find a list of all wave 1 packs that also specifies what store for store exclusives.? Please pm to me if anybody has list...spreadsheet. ..lol
Thanks

I don't think anything is 100% at this point.

As for Store Exclusives, I suspect Enchanted Hoot Loop and the Magic Triple Pack will be Day 1 at Walmart. Nitro Magna Charge 2-packs at Target, the Dark Starter and their other thing at GameStop and Legendary Swappers and Legendary 3 Pack at TRU (along with a neat R Us Rewards bonus).

I think there's a lot of speculation on what is Wave One, but I'm pretty sure nothing's been 100% confirmed yet.

Quote: GhostRoaster

Correct. The fire in this is the feeling of regret, desperation and exasperation of those that have made the decision to "get them all".

This pretty much summed up my feeling. "Regret" in buying the first version of a Skylander.

Yes, you have the option to buy reposes and variants. But you had the option to buy the original and it was totally fine at that.

It worked back in SA where only four characters had variants and there were only five recolours, but it was incredibly frustrating building a $300+ collection only to find out that 75% of that was a waste and that there would be completely superior versions of the characters in the next game, and I would barely use many of my S1s ever again afterwards. Besides completionism, there is literally no advantage to having both S2 and S1 versions of a character, because S1s have absolutely nothing unique to make up for not having a Wow Pow and both paths. Blah blah blah I know they can't just stay to S1s because they can't keep them in print all the time, but I'm looking at this from a consumer's point of view. Sadly, it's something that must be dealt with everywhere.

If I weren't a serious collector, I know I would get parried off and that it would make me hold back buying any new figures until at least their first repose- since I know that at some point there will probably be a better version of them, and I wouldn't want to pay for the same figure twice. Sure, it's only an extra power and path switching(and a slight stat boost in variants' case), but it's still more than the first edition had, so why not wait and save that $15?
It's the reason I got sick of Pokémon games, because I know in a few years they will make one with more, better Pokémon and additions, so I end up only anticipating what comes next. I still buy them when I find them for a cheaper price because they are very good RPGs, but it doesn't mean this isn't a major issue I have with them.

Thankfully, I think Skylanders does handle this at least a bit better because they aren't reposing "gimmick" Skylanders, so those will stay worthwhile, plus it's kinda nice having the different versions in different poses. But- I think when they start making S2s of SWAP/Giants/etc, I will lose much of my enthusiasm for it, just like Pokémon, because that will evolve into them being reposed the game after so even more remade landers will appear. Not to mention, there are only so many times I can replay a character and see so many of them on my shelf before I get SICK of them.

I'd love to come up with some ideas on what could be done to improve the situation as an alternative to keep old figures rolling. But production is not my forte.

Skylanders has gone from "here's a good game" to "buy all of our shim or get left in the freaking dust".

Thank you for the answers.

I think it's more meant for adult collectors, but I think they're going about it in a wrong way.

To make another comparison to Hot Wheels, there's the basic cars. Regular assortment..there's like what.. 100 something a year? However, there's increasing amounts of other products. There's specialty cars that run a few dollars more, then collectible ones based on other franchises/icons and what have you for around $5-$6. Then there's adult collector ones that you can buy online that run around $20 a car or more. Some, like the yearly membership thing can run upwards of $50, which gives you early access for the special stuff (As well as a special collectors car).

I think Skylanders could benefit from this. Have the regular figures, Legendaries and variants (a la Crystal or metallic, etc) be available in regular stores. But then have specialty stuff (like say, Molten Hot Dog or Pumpkin Eye Brawl) be available in large numbers online. Selling some sort of memebership card would be awesome and I'm sure plenty of members here would pay for it. Throw in some nicer boxes for things, and a poster and special figure, and it prints money.

For reference, here's a car called the Dairy Delivery. This is the regular one you could find in the basic assortment for around a buck. This is onethat's sold as a specialty vehicle in stores for around $8. This one they sell online, and one just sold for a whopping $45. It's literally the exact same car, just with different paintjobs and different packaging. Well golly gee, where have I seen this before? ; )

Arc: I feel relatively safe that Giants / Swap Force guys / "special guest stars" aren't going to get reposes...it's the core guys I'd be worried about. I totally understand why you'd want to wait for the switch and additional power. In MY EYES, I would simply baseline series 1 AS series 2 characters with wow pows AND MAKE THEM ALL EQUAL. In my eyes, those two features won't make me buy a repose; what really clinched it for me was to unlock heroics for upgrading sklyanders---and since heroics are gone---is there really any reason to buy ANY reposed character in the future? I'm sure some of you say yes, and that's fine...I just don't see the value from me, other than to calm my OCD.