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Upgrade Paths Recommendation Thread [STICKY]
Nibelilt Ripto Gems: 401
#1801 Posted: 11:54:30 06/09/2012
Agreed with everything Hazard335 said except for Spyro and Chop Chop. Spyro is pretty INTERCHANGABLE and Chop Chop still works though.
Bean Sprout Blue Sparx Gems: 893
#1802 Posted: 13:17:43 06/09/2012
Quote: Hazard335
since any fully leveled Skylander on any path can go thro story mode with ease, and I play PVP allot, I chose to go the path thats better in PVP
explanations are there for those that can be debatable
(I only ever played on the Xbox)


Spyro - Blitz Spyro (the stun makes the difference)
Voodood - Marauder (with practice he can ninja around the whole map)
Wreaking Ball - Ultimate Spinner (hard to control but the tongue is completely useless)
Double Trouble - Channeler

Drobot - Master Blaster
Trigger Happy - Golden Money Bags (Yamato Blast is way to easy to dodge, and bouncing bullets are pretty useless)
Boomer - Demolition Troll
Drill Sergeant - Megadozer (best when all attacks are used at the same time)

Bash - Granite Dragon (dont want to get close to him with that 250 tail swing)
Terrafin - Sandhog (dosnt take damage while underground)
Prism Break - Crystaleer
Dino Rang - Grand Boomerang Master

Whirlwind - Tempest Dragon (the electric between clouds is very useful)
Sonic Boom - Medea Griffon (not only are the babys annoying but if you get hit with an egg it dos good damage)
Lightning Rod - Lightning Lord (at least hes good at a distance, but up close he dosnt stand a chance, the other path is useless either way)
Warnado - Eye of the Storm (best when all attacks are used at the same time)

Sunburn - Flame Lord (hard to guess where hes gonna show up after teleporting)
Ignitor - Soul of the Flame (only those who never tried it like the other path)
Flameslinger - Pyromancer (the fire left behind on the map makes the difference)
Eruptor - Volcanor

Zap - Slime Serpent
Gill Grunt - Water Weaver (best when all attacks are used at the same time)
Slam Bam - Blizzard Brawler
Wham-Shell - Captain Crustacean

Camo - Vine Virtuoso
Stealth Elf - Pook Blade Saint
Stump Smash - Nut Crafter
Zook - Floral Defender (allot better then people give him credit for)

Cynder - Nether Welder
Ghost Roaster - Skull Master (ectoplasma hardly suffers in the trade off)
Chop Chop - Undead Defender (for the stun)
Hex - Bone Crafter



Wow. I agree with all of these except for Spyro and Chop Chop, but those are interchangeable. I agree how Warnado and Drill Sergeant are best when all of there moves is used.
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"No, John. It is pretty weird that ghosts have to pee."
andy2467 Blue Sparx Gems: 880
#1803 Posted: 21:31:42 06/09/2012
Quote: Hazard335
since any fully leveled Skylander on any path can go thro story mode with ease, and I play PVP allot, I chose to go the path thats better in PVP
explanations are there for those that can be debatable
(I only ever played on the Xbox)


Spyro - Blitz Spyro (the stun makes the difference)
Voodood - Marauder (with practice he can ninja around the whole map)
Wreaking Ball - Ultimate Spinner (hard to control but the tongue is completely useless)
Double Trouble - Channeler

Drobot - Master Blaster
Trigger Happy - Golden Money Bags (Yamato Blast is way to easy to dodge, and bouncing bullets are pretty useless)
Boomer - Demolition Troll
Drill Sergeant - Megadozer (best when all attacks are used at the same time)

Bash - Granite Dragon (dont want to get close to him with that 250 tail swing)
Terrafin - Sandhog (dosnt take damage while underground)
Prism Break - Crystaleer
Dino Rang - Grand Boomerang Master

Whirlwind - Tempest Dragon (the electric between clouds is very useful)
Sonic Boom - Medea Griffon (not only are the babys annoying but if you get hit with an egg it dos good damage)
Lightning Rod - Lightning Lord (at least hes good at a distance, but up close he dosnt stand a chance, the other path is useless either way)
Warnado - Eye of the Storm (best when all attacks are used at the same time)

Sunburn - Flame Lord (hard to guess where hes gonna show up after teleporting)
Ignitor - Soul of the Flame (only those who never tried it like the other path)
Flameslinger - Pyromancer (the fire left behind on the map makes the difference)
Eruptor - Volcanor

Zap - Slime Serpent
Gill Grunt - Water Weaver (best when all attacks are used at the same time)
Slam Bam - Blizzard Brawler
Wham-Shell - Captain Crustacean

Camo - Vine Virtuoso
Stealth Elf - Pook Blade Saint
Stump Smash - Nut Crafter
Zook - Floral Defender (allot better then people give him credit for)

Cynder - Nether Welder
Ghost Roaster - Skull Master (ectoplasma hardly suffers in the trade off)
Chop Chop - Undead Defender (for the stun)
Hex - Bone Crafter


i almost agree with everything except a few like lighning rod and chop chop
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smilie smilie smilie smilie smilie
awesomerockets Emerald Sparx Gems: 4149
#1804 Posted: 23:25:13 06/09/2012
Quote: Poptimus
Looks like I'm the only one who really digs the Pyromancer path for Flameslinger. While the supernova ability isn't the easiest thing to use, it makes up for it with the damage it does. Going to buy another Flameslinger for the marksman path though.


Hey, I like Pyromancer too! It's really good and makes Flameslinger a really strong addition to my team!
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go to my guestbook now and sign a petition to get Freddie benson into smash
Stealthelfrocks Yellow Sparx Gems: 1235
#1805 Posted: 08:03:59 07/09/2012
pyromancer is AWESOME!
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well guys..... took me a while.... but i might still hang around.... dont know..... but.... I loved the moment while it lasted smilie
DinoHex Blue Sparx Gems: 735
#1806 Posted: 08:20:34 07/09/2012
Quote: Hazard335
Sunburn - Flame Lord (hard to guess where hes gonna show up after teleporting)


You control where he goes. Just tilt the control stick in the direction of the flame you want to teleport towards.
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smilie smilie and smilie: The three greatest Skylanders out of them all.
Hazard335 Yellow Sparx Gems: 1435
#1807 Posted: 13:05:47 07/09/2012
Quote: DinoHex
Quote: Hazard335
Sunburn - Flame Lord (hard to guess where hes gonna show up after teleporting)


You control where he goes. Just tilt the control stick in the direction of the flame you want to teleport towards.



^ I meant that your enemy is going to have a hard time guessing where hes gonna show up after teleporting.
that extra seconded you get while your opponent trys to figure out where you went is useful.
also you dont want to get to close and end up in his teleporting path, def the better path all the way around.


I agree that both Spyro and Chop Chop paths are pretty much equal, but in the end I chose Blitz and Defender mainly because the stun was very useful.
now for story more I would choose the other two paths.

as for Trigger Happy, Golden Frenzy is better for story more, bouncing bullets are excellent there.
but Golden Money Bags is def better for pvp. more people should give it a chance.

Lightning Rods Typhoon Titan path dosnt really stop many "close up damagers" as its suppose to.
while Lighting Lord at least gives him a chance to beat ranged attackers.
again tho, i would prolly choose Typhoon Titan for story mode.

this is making me think about just how many skylanders have a better path of story and a better path for pvp. im sure they designed it that way.
but in the end, any skylander on any path can beat story mode, as long as your a decent gamer, so thats why I always choose the best pvp path.
Edited 6 times - Last edited at 13:15:44 07/09/2012 by Hazard335
Bean Sprout Blue Sparx Gems: 893
#1808 Posted: 13:16:12 07/09/2012
Yea, I agree with the PvE thing. I really focus on PvP for that reason.
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"No, John. It is pretty weird that ghosts have to pee."
Drobotdude Blue Sparx Gems: 622
#1809 Posted: 23:54:31 07/09/2012
Drobot on the other hand is best on Master Blaster in PvE and PvP. Clockwork Dragon just completly drops him down to the low classes when Master Blaster puts him in the god teir. One of the best characters on Master Blaster. This is just in my opinion.
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Blink and Destroy!
kirby181 Red Sparx Gems: 67
#1810 Posted: 04:56:23 08/09/2012
^I agree. MB Drobot is one of the best characters in PvP. All you really have to do is hold down the primary attack button, and Drobot is pretty godly. Then, if someone like Slam Bam tries to attack up close, just fly away, and Afterburners will still leave 40 damage behind. (Then again, Slam Bam could attempt to freeze Drobot, but, still.)
Drobotdude Blue Sparx Gems: 622
#1811 Posted: 05:09:08 09/09/2012
Quote: Drobotdude
Quote: Stealthelfrocks
I see why dark spyro is good on 3DS since he does come with it. Oh ya guys I got new skylanders today so to review about the paths to make sure (pvp)
Drobot: master blaster
Flameslinger: pyromancer
Stump smash: nut crafter
Sunburn: flame lord



Flameslinger belongs on the marksman path for both pve and pvp



I change my mind about the path I like for Flameslinger. I now seem to like the Pyromancer path better. It just seemed to haunt me about switching to Marksman.

P.S.:What is the best path for smilie and why?
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Blink and Destroy!
Bean Sprout Blue Sparx Gems: 893
#1812 Posted: 14:34:15 09/09/2012
I think that Bone Crafter is the better path because of the strategy you can use with her. Although this path is like a weaker form of floral defender Zook, Shade Master is even more of a weaker MB Drobot.
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"No, John. It is pretty weird that ghosts have to pee."
Hazard335 Yellow Sparx Gems: 1435
#1813 Posted: 14:52:47 09/09/2012
I actually had a hard time choosing a path for Flameslinger, but in the end I chose Pyromancer cuz of this advice (thanks Tashij)


Quote: Tashiji
I like Pyromancer because his arrow volley leaves flames on the field. His arrows are less damaging, and noticeably so, but I find that results are better when I play keep-away instead of engaging directly. The more fire I can leave on the field, the more difficult he is to pursue. Supernova really is hard to pull off, though, I agree, but the path of fire his arrows leave behind is invaluable to his chances in the more difficult fights. He can decimate lower-tier characters either way, but the tougher the opponent, the less likely arrow spam is to put you ahead and the more you'll need to strategize. Both paths are fine, but I really love his Napalm Tipped Arrows for PVP. It turns him into a far more effective version of Slime Serpent Zap, which is a tactic with tons of potential.
Drobotdude Blue Sparx Gems: 622
#1814 Posted: 20:41:30 09/09/2012
Quote: Bean Sprout
I think that Bone Crafter is the better path because of the strategy you can use with her. Although this path is like a weaker form of floral defender Zook, Shade Master is even more of a weaker MB Drobot.



Okay. I have already reset my Hex to Bone Crafter.
P.S.:Always get the soul gem before you pick your path so that u can see what the names of the upgrades are and how they affect your skylanders.
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Blink and Destroy!
greenlinkinmuse Ripto Gems: 347
#1815 Posted: 20:53:48 09/09/2012
Just got four new men, bringing my collection to 16.

smilie Pyromancer
smilie Ultimate Spinner
smilie Pook Blade Saint
smilie medea griffin.
Drobotdude Blue Sparx Gems: 622
#1816 Posted: 03:47:59 10/09/2012
Perfect path choices.
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Blink and Destroy!
Stealthelfrocks Yellow Sparx Gems: 1235
#1817 Posted: 08:06:54 10/09/2012
100% pafact
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well guys..... took me a while.... but i might still hang around.... dont know..... but.... I loved the moment while it lasted smilie
awesomerockets Emerald Sparx Gems: 4149
#1818 Posted: 13:28:24 10/09/2012
Just got two new recruits, bringing my collection to twenty
smilie Volcanor
smilie Granite Dragon

Also my friend was having portal problems and had me train his Sonic Boom and Stealth Elf,
smilie Medea Griffin (My friend just LOVED those babies so his choice was obvious, but I would go with Siren Griffin if she was mine)
smilie At first Pook Blade Saint (Who names these things!?) but changed to Forest Ninja( He wants to change it back to Pook Blade Saint but I honestly liked Forest Ninja better)
---
go to my guestbook now and sign a petition to get Freddie benson into smash
Stealthelfrocks Yellow Sparx Gems: 1235
#1819 Posted: 07:43:53 11/09/2012
all good but stealth elf is pretty much good on whatever path. if you like some fun to things do forest ninja. if you just want the best path for her go pook blade saint
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well guys..... took me a while.... but i might still hang around.... dont know..... but.... I loved the moment while it lasted smilie
Nibelilt Ripto Gems: 401
#1820 Posted: 10:16:16 11/09/2012
Medea Griff is definetly better than Siren since you can use the egg shells as grenades but if you just play Story either is fine.
andy2467 Blue Sparx Gems: 880
#1821 Posted: 22:09:41 12/09/2012
Quote: awesomerockets
Just got two new recruits, bringing my collection to twenty
smilie Volcanor
smilie Granite Dragon

Also my friend was having portal problems and had me train his Sonic Boom and Stealth Elf,
smilie Medea Griffin (My friend just LOVED those babies so his choice was obvious, but I would go with Siren Griffin if she was mine)
smilie At first Pook Blade Saint (Who names these things!?) but changed to Forest Ninja( He wants to change it back to Pook Blade Saint but I honestly liked Forest Ninja better)



those all are the better paths
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smilie smilie smilie smilie smilie
awesomerockets Emerald Sparx Gems: 4149
#1822 Posted: 23:14:51 13/09/2012
I just got Wham-Shell today and I think I am going to take his Captain Crustacean path and I got Stump Smash too but I don't know what to choose?

What path should I take for smilie?
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go to my guestbook now and sign a petition to get Freddie benson into smash
Drobotdude Blue Sparx Gems: 622
#1823 Posted: 23:17:47 13/09/2012
Choose Nut Crafter. Smash n' Bash just makes him a horrible meleeist.
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Blink and Destroy!
Stealthelfrocks Yellow Sparx Gems: 1235
#1824 Posted: 07:39:58 14/09/2012
NUT CRAFTER.
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well guys..... took me a while.... but i might still hang around.... dont know..... but.... I loved the moment while it lasted smilie
awesomerockets Emerald Sparx Gems: 4149
#1825 Posted: 13:23:15 14/09/2012
Nut Crafter, got it!
---
go to my guestbook now and sign a petition to get Freddie benson into smash
Drobotdude Blue Sparx Gems: 622
#1826 Posted: 02:26:25 15/09/2012
Good descision.
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Blink and Destroy!
andy2467 Blue Sparx Gems: 880
#1827 Posted: 16:15:15 15/09/2012
nut crafter!
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smilie smilie smilie smilie smilie
kirby181 Red Sparx Gems: 67
#1828 Posted: 22:35:50 15/09/2012
Quote: Drobotdude
Choose Nut Crafter. Smash n' Bash just makes him a horrible meleeist.


This about covers it.
Daveniss Green Sparx Gems: 181
#1829 Posted: 23:16:19 23/09/2012
So... I'm just going to post a few opinions here. xD
I have all of the dragon characters, and have gone through both upgrade paths for most of them, so this knowledge is firsthand, but again, is my personal opinion, so feel free to disagree.

Spyro: I actually played through most of the game using Blitz Spyro, but... it was difficult to effectively utilize his Ibex's Wrath Charge due to space constraints, so I switched to Sheep Burner. Personally, I find Sheep Burner Spyro to be more effective.

Cynder: I know that everybody says that Cynder's Nether Welder line is better, but I beg to differ. I find the fact that she can avoid enemy attacks while still causing them harm very handy, and as such, I have gone with her Shadow Dancer path.

Whirlwind: For a really long time, I really loved Whirlwind's Ultimate Rainbower, path because... well, let's face it, Rainbow Singularity is probably the most beautiful attack in the game. But Tempest Dragon, due to Tempest Matrix is the superior path.

Zap: I went with his Slime Serpent because... it seems more useful. In general though, Zap is a more difficult character for me to use, but I'm happy with being able to more or less paralyze enemies.

Bash: Go with what you like. Seriously. Bash is a powerhouse whichever way you choose to go.

Drobot: I liked Master Blaster, but that is mainly because I'm really lazy and enjoy being able to just spam shoot lasers. While the bladegears are decent, they're more difficult to aim and are slightly less effective. At least, that's just my opinion.

Camo: Vine Virtuoso. It's seriously, like Drobot's eye lasers in that... it hits, and it hits multiple times with a single attack.

Sunburn: I went with his Blaze Dragon path. That was more a personal decision. While I have heard excellent things about his Flame Lord moves, I never use his teleportation. And... off topic, but... why didn't they allow Sunburn to fly? :c
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My Skylanders (favorite -> least favorite):
smiliesmiliesmiliesmiliesmiliesmiliesmiliesmiliesmilie
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 23:25:38 23/09/2012 by Daveniss
awesomerockets Emerald Sparx Gems: 4149
#1830 Posted: 01:06:51 27/09/2012
Just got Camo and Warnado

What path should I take for smilie and smilie? I am thinking about Melon Master and Eye of the Storm, what do you think?
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go to my guestbook now and sign a petition to get Freddie benson into smash
Bean Sprout Blue Sparx Gems: 893
#1831 Posted: 01:08:40 27/09/2012
Well, I prefer Vine Virtuoso because Melon Master doesn't have a good long-ranged move, but MM is still good.
And EotS is better.
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"No, John. It is pretty weird that ghosts have to pee."
andy2467 Blue Sparx Gems: 880
#1832 Posted: 11:58:27 27/09/2012
Quote: Daveniss
So... I'm just going to post a few opinions here. xD
I have all of the dragon characters, and have gone through both upgrade paths for most of them, so this knowledge is firsthand, but again, is my personal opinion, so feel free to disagree.

Spyro: I actually played through most of the game using Blitz Spyro, but... it was difficult to effectively utilize his Ibex's Wrath Charge due to space constraints, so I switched to Sheep Burner. Personally, I find Sheep Burner Spyro to be more effective.

Cynder: I know that everybody says that Cynder's Nether Welder line is better, but I beg to differ. I find the fact that she can avoid enemy attacks while still causing them harm very handy, and as such, I have gone with her Shadow Dancer path.

Whirlwind: For a really long time, I really loved Whirlwind's Ultimate Rainbower, path because... well, let's face it, Rainbow Singularity is probably the most beautiful attack in the game. But Tempest Dragon, due to Tempest Matrix is the superior path.

Zap: I went with his Slime Serpent because... it seems more useful. In general though, Zap is a more difficult character for me to use, but I'm happy with being able to more or less paralyze enemies.

Bash: Go with what you like. Seriously. Bash is a powerhouse whichever way you choose to go.

Drobot: I liked Master Blaster, but that is mainly because I'm really lazy and enjoy being able to just spam shoot lasers. While the bladegears are decent, they're more difficult to aim and are slightly less effective. At least, that's just my opinion.

Camo: Vine Virtuoso. It's seriously, like Drobot's eye lasers in that... it hits, and it hits multiple times with a single attack.

Sunburn: I went with his Blaze Dragon path. That was more a personal decision. While I have heard excellent things about his Flame Lord moves, I never use his teleportation. And... off topic, but... why didn't they allow Sunburn to fly? :c



really i only agree with the path sunburn chose and whirlwinds path too! and also bash is better on granite dragon i only want cynder to be on nether welder because of the same reason i want warnado to be on wind master i dont know how to use warnado properly and it takes way to long for me to destroy knights and lava kings cause the slam attack only does around 30 damage and the tornado does 40
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smilie smilie smilie smilie smilie
Nibelilt Ripto Gems: 401
#1833 Posted: 04:24:08 28/09/2012
I just tried out Slime Serpent. I like Tesla now...

-On Slime Serpent, the Lightning Bolts are nearly useless- they spit out at a middling speed, they don't go very far, and they don't deal much damage.
-On Tesla Dragon, the Lightning Bolts are very useful when combined with running across the field using dash. They spit out at the same middling speed, but for the tradeoff of instant slime, the increased damage fixes this issue.
-Slime Serpent's Sea Slimes electrify instantly and you get a damage boost to them. That's pretty much it that's worthwhile. The "extra" Slimes just don't pay off. The damage they do is fair and it's good that they zap straight away, but all his other attacks become completely useless. Also... They're just an inferior version of Flameslinger's dash. Seriously, horribly so.
-Sea Slimes on Tesla Dragon are obviously much worse, but it's not as bad as people say. They still deal fair damage, they still go good distance, and they're fairly easy to electrify(plus you can run right off an electrified one to chain it onto another dash). Obviously inferior to Slime Serpent- but considering that path is the one designed around Slimes I think Tesla's are fine.
-The wave is obviously less useful on Slime Serpent because it deals less damage and is smaller.
-The wave on Tesla Dragon can actually be useful to save yourself and push your opponent away. It is larger and deals better damage.

Man, I reset my Zap with completed Heroics just for this Slime Serpent... What a bummer.
andy2467 Blue Sparx Gems: 880
#1834 Posted: 01:07:38 29/09/2012
i find zap a lot stronger on tesla
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smilie smilie smilie smilie smilie
Stealthelfrocks Yellow Sparx Gems: 1235
#1835 Posted: 12:11:01 01/10/2012
Well it's your opinions. If tesla suits your style then go for it
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well guys..... took me a while.... but i might still hang around.... dont know..... but.... I loved the moment while it lasted smilie
zookinator Platinum Sparx Gems: 5726
#1836 Posted: 15:06:18 04/10/2012
It depends on the person. Everybody here has their personal opinion about their choice of upgrade paths. Every path has it pros and cons. At least in the next game you can switch between pathes.
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Skylanders Colosseum Clash
A Fanmade Skylanders Boardgame
CAMOflauge Blue Sparx Gems: 504
#1837 Posted: 16:54:57 04/10/2012
I just got Bash and Wrecking Ball,any suggestions?
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Boomy Boo,I'm watching you~
Kurui: http://soundcloud.com/inabakageroza/ok-i-did-it
Pasta!
zookinator Platinum Sparx Gems: 5726
#1838 Posted: 18:10:47 04/10/2012
In my opinion,Bash's tail path and wrecking ball's toungue actually do pretty well
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Skylanders Colosseum Clash
A Fanmade Skylanders Boardgame
Mrmorrises Platinum Sparx Gems: 7038
#1839 Posted: 23:34:32 05/10/2012
What path is better for Ghost roasted? I'm thinking fear eater simply because it seems more balanced but I would like to hear some opinions.
Bean Sprout Blue Sparx Gems: 893
#1840 Posted: 06:10:11 06/10/2012
It depends on the system. Fear Eater for Wii, the Skull Path for PS360.
---
"No, John. It is pretty weird that ghosts have to pee."
Nibelilt Ripto Gems: 401
#1841 Posted: 06:11:52 06/10/2012
Wrecking Ball's Ultimate Spinner is the way to go over the Tongue unless you play PvE A LOT, but I agree with the other choices here.
awesomerockets Emerald Sparx Gems: 4149
#1842 Posted: 14:31:57 06/10/2012
I have the Wii version and I put my smilie on the Skull Master path, and he is easily one of my strongest Skylanders
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go to my guestbook now and sign a petition to get Freddie benson into smash
Drobotdude Blue Sparx Gems: 622
#1843 Posted: 14:48:23 06/10/2012
I have smilie on that same path also!
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Blink and Destroy!
Bean Sprout Blue Sparx Gems: 893
#1844 Posted: 15:53:23 06/10/2012
Quote: awesomerockets
I have the Wii version and I put my smilie on the Skull Master path, and he is easily one of my strongest Skylanders



The problem with SM on the Wii is that it is greatly nerfed. It only can hit once per dash, and I think their is trouble with stopping the dashh, but I may be wrong.
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"No, John. It is pretty weird that ghosts have to pee."
Nibelilt Ripto Gems: 401
#1845 Posted: 15:54:32 06/10/2012
smilie Fear Eater is more balanced, on both versions, IMO.
weebbby Emerald Sparx Gems: 4220
#1846 Posted: 16:57:25 06/10/2012
smilie on the Wii version can hit multiple enemies per dash, but sometimes the dash lasts longer then it is supposed to.
Bean Sprout Blue Sparx Gems: 893
#1847 Posted: 17:38:36 06/10/2012
Quote: weebbby
smilie on the Wii version can hit multiple enemies per dash, but sometimes the dash lasts longer then it is supposed to.



It can hit mulitple enemies per dash, but it can only hit an enemy once. This is a terrible thing for dash moves in PVP.
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"No, John. It is pretty weird that ghosts have to pee."
weebbby Emerald Sparx Gems: 4220
#1848 Posted: 17:54:27 06/10/2012
Quote: Bean Sprout
Quote: weebbby
smilie on the Wii version can hit multiple enemies per dash, but sometimes the dash lasts longer then it is supposed to.

It can hit mulitple enemies per dash, but it can only hit an enemy once. This is a terrible thing for dash moves in PVP.

He is still amazing on the path though, and I rarely play PVP.
kirby181 Red Sparx Gems: 67
#1849 Posted: 03:12:20 07/10/2012
I don't like GR very much...
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