darkSpyro

Both versions, but especially on Wii, where damage from cacti is calculated more frequently. Not as severe as Volcanor Eruptor's quick calculations, but not entirely dissimilar. Either way, though, I would estimate an A-tier character. Having played him on both PS360 and Wii, it's undeniable from any testing we've done so far. Easily the stronger of his two paths.

Tashiji, have you got any further with Sunburn and Lightening Rod? I would really like to know how powerful Sunburn is after all his upgrades.

Thanks for that Tashiji.

• Zook / Floral Defender placed in A tier.
  
• Zook / Artilleryman added to unsorted skylanders list.
  

If someone could give me the names of both upgrade paths for Sunburn and Lightning Rod too, i'll add those to the unsorted skylander lists.

we want know about sunburn fire breathing path! is it broken?

Sunburn recommendations:

Flame Lord definitely belongs in A-tier. He smokes most characters (no pun intended) and only really meets any still competition at all from A-tier characters or above. His teleportation, all parts of it (arc, appear spots, explosion) do 24 damage. His Phoenix Dash does 30, and the resulting explosion, another 24. Flame breath does a 10-damage string to those in range. Due to the fact that all of these moves can register damage more than once, 24 is plenty high, and will score him numerous wins. Very versatile, quick, and hard to corner due to escape tactics that damage pursuers and, thanks to the four teleport points, leaves them guessing as well.

Blaze Dragon is B-tier, sadly. His teleports and Phoenix Dash explosions only do 17. The dash itself still does 30. L:3 charged flame breath does 30 per tick, L:2 charge does 20, L:1 charge does 10. This would be wonderful, except for the fact that any hit of any kind interrupts this attack, making charging to L:3 very difficult to maintain. Too difficult, in fact, to fit in with A-tier battles or above, though he does fine against B characters.

So, my recommendations for Sunburn are...

Flame Lord: Easy A.

Blaze Dragon: Solid B.

Sounds good.

• Sunburn / Flame Lord placed in A Tier.
  
• Sunburn / Blaze Dragon placed in B Tier.
  
• Lightning Rod / Lightning Lord added to Unsorted list.
  
• Lightning Rod / Typhoon Titan added to Unsorted list.
  

On another note, I read somewhere that Flameslinger's supernova attack deals less damage on the Wii. Would this affect Pyromancer's tier position?

I copied a process similiar to that used for rating chess players (but kept the scale between 1-100%) on 96 fights between me and my son.

These are the ratings:
Stealth Elf (Pook Blade Saint) : 96%
Hex (Shade Master): 93%
Sonic Boom (Siren Griffen): 82%
Dino Rang (Earthen Avenger): 76%
Drobot (Master Blaster): 76%
Bash (Pulver Dragon): 69%
Stump Smash (Nut Crafter): 65%
Spyro (Sheep Burner): 58%
Gill Grunt (Water Weaver): 50%
Zap (Slime Serpent): 34%
Eruptor (Volcanor): 25%
Chop Chop (Vampric Warrior): 18%
Trigger Happy (Golden Frenzy): 15%
Wrecking Ball (Total Tongue): 15%
Flameslinger (Marksmen): 12%
Boomer (Demolition Troll): 9%

Comments:
The small number of fights (12 per character) means that one win can move a score up or down by as much as 10%. What we need is lots and lots of data - results of character vs character.

All these were on Xbox 360.
Some character's moves are delayed & interupted under attack - Eruptor suffers particularly from this, but Hex's wall of bones and Trigger Happy's machine gun are also weakened because of delay or interuption under attack. I understand that Eruptor's main weapon is not delayed on the wii, and he could fly up the wii ratings as a result.

Speed is vital, some characters have speed built into attacks (Stealth Elf, Bash, Zap), others don't (Eruptor, Boomer, Chop Chop, Hex) this latter group benefit from speed heroic challenges more than the former.

Hex is much stronger as Shade Master, at least on Xbox 360. The wall of bones is too delayed and easily cut down by Bash, Stealth Elf etc and the skulls easily avoided by moving around, but the upgraded potions are an effective weapon.
In this tournament she managed to beat Bash and Dino Rang, by keeping her distance and flinging the potions, however I know from other fights that you won't always be able to dodge the melees, so her rating here is on the high side. She does however have a good chance against Stealth Elf (elemental advantage).

Some have commented that Trigger Happpy can finish a fight with a Yamamoto blast, but in the fights between me and my son, anything that needs charging gets rarely used as you get hit while charging (Gill Grunt can get his anchor cannon away sometimes as one of the quicker charging weapons)

We did not find Drobot to be the super top tier fighter others have suggested - he lost both fights Stealth Elf and once against DinoRang, Sonic Boom and Bash.

Wrecking ball total tongue lacks good weapons and you have to use the charge attack all the time - so I suspect he will be better on the upgrade path that specialises on charging.

I've tried Chop chop on both paths and he is even weaker with the shield.

Boomer flatters to deceive - lots of close fights against weak characters, and you think the bombs and dynamite are good weapons but he loses consistently against anyone good.

Yes we have Dino Rang on Earthen Avenger - I want to try the Boomerrang Master, but my son won't reset and it's his toy! The 4x stone fist traps are a very good weapon though, and up close he hurts his opponents who can get hit with more than one fist. Simliar story with Bash - I would like to see the upgraded tail in a fight, though the ability to roll through attacks with Pulver Dragon is useful.


Techy bit - how we got the numbers:
My son and I held a swiss system tournament (winners matched with winners, losers matched with losers).
Each match up was done twice, swapping controlers after the first fight so that we fought both sides of the battle with each character.
Final score was 55-41 to my son.
We only used level 10 characters with all upgrades, though they have done different numbers of heroic challenges.
All fights were in Aqueduct (our favorite), and we were free to use rocket hats, food etc - anything else feels artificial.
After 6 rounds with 16 characters we have 96 results (6x2x8)

Then each character is given a score from 0 to 100% as follows:-
Gill Grunt, Water Weaver = 50% (benchmark character)
Then fighting strength = exp(norminv(score,0,3))
Probability of winning fight = character's fighting strenth /(total in the battle)
Put the results into Excel and get solver to find the character's scores that give the max liklihood of the results occuring. (use sum of the logs to avoid chasing a tiny number)

That was an excellent post MRDad. I love your very organised methods of analysis and how clear you were to explain them!

Your findings were useful mostly in that it added more confirmation to things we already knew, although your post has encouraged me to retrace my opinions on Hex.
It's good that you mentioned what arena and settings you used. Aqueduct is a fun one for the effects it can have on your battles, and the fact that you were playing with power-ups enabled will have skewed your results in favour of speedy characters, allthough this doesn't make your point about fast characters any less true.
All in all, some interesting stories and some great results! I may later revisit the current state of the PC/Xbox/PS3 tier list bearing the findings of your post in mind.

Quote: MRDad

I copied a process similiar to that used for rating chess players (but kept the scale between 1-100%) on 96 fights between me and my son.

These are the ratings:
Stealth Elf (Pook Blade Saint) : 96%
Hex (Shade Master): 93%
Sonic Boom (Siren Griffen): 82%
Dino Rang (Earthen Avenger): 76%
Drobot (Master Blaster): 76%
Bash (Pulver Dragon): 69%
Stump Smash (Nut Crafter): 65%
Spyro (Sheep Burner): 58%
Gill Grunt (Water Weaver): 50%
Zap (Slime Serpent): 34%
Eruptor (Volcanor): 25%
Chop Chop (Vampric Warrior): 18%
Trigger Happy (Golden Frenzy): 15%
Wrecking Ball (Total Tongue): 15%
Flameslinger (Marksmen): 12%
Boomer (Demolition Troll): 9%

Comments:
The small number of fights (12 per character) means that one win can move a score up or down by as much as 10%. What we need is lots and lots of data - results of character vs character.

All these were on Xbox 360.
Some character's moves are delayed & interupted under attack - Eruptor suffers particularly from this, but Hex's wall of bones and Trigger Happy's machine gun are also weakened because of delay or interuption under attack. I understand that Eruptor's main weapon is not delayed on the wii, and he could fly up the wii ratings as a result.

Speed is vital, some characters have speed built into attacks (Stealth Elf, Bash, Zap), others don't (Eruptor, Boomer, Chop Chop, Hex) this latter group benefit from speed heroic challenges more than the former.

Hex is much stronger as Shade Master, at least on Xbox 360. The wall of bones is too delayed and easily cut down by Bash, Stealth Elf etc and the skulls easily avoided by moving around, but the upgraded potions are an effective weapon.
In this tournament she managed to beat Bash and Dino Rang, by keeping her distance and flinging the potions, however I know from other fights that you won't always be able to dodge the melees, so her rating here is on the high side. She does however have a good chance against Stealth Elf (elemental advantage).

Some have commented that Trigger Happpy can finish a fight with a Yamamoto blast, but in the fights between me and my son, anything that needs charging gets rarely used as you get hit while charging (Gill Grunt can get his anchor cannon away sometimes as one of the quicker charging weapons)

We did not find Drobot to be the super top tier fighter others have suggested - he lost both fights Stealth Elf and once against DinoRang, Sonic Boom and Bash.

Wrecking ball total tongue lacks good weapons and you have to use the charge attack all the time - so I suspect he will be better on the upgrade path that specialises on charging.

I've tried Chop chop on both paths and he is even weaker with the shield.

Boomer flatters to deceive - lots of close fights against weak characters, and you think the bombs and dynamite are good weapons but he loses consistently against anyone good.

Yes we have Dino Rang on Earthen Avenger - I want to try the Boomerrang Master, but my son won't reset and it's his toy! The 4x stone fist traps are a very good weapon though, and up close he hurts his opponents who can get hit with more than one fist. Simliar story with Bash - I would like to see the upgraded tail in a fight, though the ability to roll through attacks with Pulver Dragon is useful.


Techy bit - how we got the numbers:
My son and I held a swiss system tournament (winners matched with winners, losers matched with losers).
Each match up was done twice, swapping controlers after the first fight so that we fought both sides of the battle with each character.
Final score was 55-41 to my son.
We only used level 10 characters with all upgrades, though they have done different numbers of heroic challenges.
All fights were in Aqueduct (our favorite), and we were free to use rocket hats, food etc - anything else feels artificial.
After 6 rounds with 16 characters we have 96 results (6x2x8)

Then each character is given a score from 0 to 100% as follows:-
Gill Grunt, Water Weaver = 50% (benchmark character)
Then fighting strength = exp(norminv(score,0,3))
Probability of winning fight = character's fighting strenth /(total in the battle)
Put the results into Excel and get solver to find the character's scores that give the max liklihood of the results occuring. (use sum of the logs to avoid chasing a tiny number)

2 things:
- really you win against drobot with earthen avenger dino-rang? O.o
- boomer is so weak? when i play against him, he can kill almost all the melee characters except stealth elf. troll bombs away is very strong.

I regularly win against Drobot with Grand Boomerang Master, but my luck has been at best 50-50 and very arena-dependent with Earthen Avenger.

I want to propose a few changes:

Ignitor/SotF - Moved from top of Tier A into S Tier. He's broken, he's a tad underrated (or not many people understand the power of SotF, rather), and he wins almost all matches with ease.

Hex/BoneCrafter - Swap positions with Zook (Floral Defender). Period. He does her job x10 better, and Hex is now out-classed in every way. She still can be A-Tier, but not that high up.

Zook/Floral Defender - (See Hex)

Terrafin/Brawler - Move up in Tier A, either above or below Slam Bam. IMO, he's better than Slam Bam, but only by a hair. Whislt Slam Bam is inherently tanky by his HP/Armor, Brawler Path's Shark Shield is underrated, and borderline broken. Playing a very aggressive Brawler can shut down almost anyone, as Terrafin's raw damage output is fantastic, while punishing those who attack him. Sandhog is better, but I feel as if Brawler should be higher up.

Now, there's a few more I'm not entirely sure of, and would like more discussion on; those Skylanders include: Hex Shade Master, Ghost Roaster Fear Eater, Lighting Rod Lighting Lord, and Boomer Demolition Troll.

Hex/Shade Master - I believe she can at least go into mid/low Tier B. Not bad, has decent ranged damage, but going that path renders her other two skills useless. Sadly, can still spam and win due to her damage output.

Ghost Roaster/Fear Easter - This is probably the biggest one I'm confused on. I feel in the right hands, timing Ectoplasm he can be unstoppable, but even then, he gets shut down by all in S-Tier, and many in A-Tier. I'm thinking either High/Mid B until further analysis.

Lighting Rod/Lightning Lord - Definitely reliant on being able to hold down his lightning spell, which is fairly easily interruptible. His damage output is pretty good, but like Hex he's pretty reliant on one spell. I'd say Mid/Low B-Tier.

Boomer/Demolition Troll - I personally think he's too low in Tier B. Below Forest Ninja Stealth Elf? Not sure about that one. His ability to punish melee with bombs, while still dealing respectable ranged damage should earn him a spot in High Tier B or Low Tier A.

EDIT: This is for Xbox/PS3.

For wii bash should be on S tier because a level 8 Bash can beat a level 10 Drobot.

Quote: AJAwesome

For wii bash should be on S tier because a level 8 Bash can beat a level 10 Drobot.

But Eruptor beats Stealth Elf. So should he be in the S tier for the Wii?

Quote: Cheeseman

Quote: AJAwesome

For wii bash should be on S tier because a level 8 Bash can beat a level 10 Drobot.

But Eruptor beats Stealth Elf. So should he be in the S tier for the Wii?

Eruptor beats Stealth Elf on Wii, yes, but he's still beaten outright by the ranged attackers of the S Tier such as Drobot and Cynder, so as far as I know I still think he belongs in A Tier for Wii.

Remember as a general point that the S Tier in these tier lists isn't for characters that are just really good, it's for characters that are broken.

@Laurix: Just so you understand, the characters in each tier are not listed in any particular order, so Boomer / Demolition Troll being listed below Stealth Elf / Forest Ninja in the B Tier does not actually mean that Forest Ninja is better than Demolition Troll: Both of them are still B tier and as such still considered roughly equal, at least in the current version of these tier lists. There is, at the moment, no such thing as "high A" or "low B". I was thinking the characters would be put in a more exact order at a later date.
Remember, I'm still seriously considering dividing the A Tier in to two tiers, a sort of "High A" tier for very-good-but-not-quite-S-Tier characters and a "Low A" tier for just good characters.
Laurix's points are still very useful ones, especially his stuff about Terrafin / Brawler, Hex and Ghost Roaster. I will make some changes to the rankings with his points in mind.

• I'm really undecided on whether to move Ignitor / Soul of the Flame to S Tier. I know he is an excellent character who is only consistently weak to Cynder, so I think I'll move him for now, but may move him back after more information about how he matches up with the other S Tier characters.
  
• Hex / Shade Master placed in B Tier.
  
• Ghost Roaster / Fear Eater placed in B Tier.
  
• Lightning Rod / Lightning Lord placed in B Tier.
  

I agree that Soul of the Flame Ignitor should be S-tier. He destroys Drobot and Cynder in seconds, and possibly Double Trouble but I haven't tried that yet. He takes out the entire A tier with ease, including Slam Bam who he is supposedly weak too.

i think you should made 2 A tiers

Quote: voodude

i think you should made 2 A tiers

That's exactly the thing I'm planning to do, you see.

I might go and do it now, actually. Does anyone else think I should?

Quote: EgoNaut

Quote: voodude

i think you should made 2 A tiers

That's exactly the thing I'm planning to do, you see.

I might go and do it now, actually. Does anyone else think I should?

I do.

I don't see any harm for separating the A-Tier into two.

And thanks for taking my opinion on some of the Skylanders into consideration!

I have now divided the A Tier in to an Upper-A Tier and a Lower-A tier. I'll need some advice on which characters should go in the upper bracket and which in the lower.
The ones I was specifically wondering about were Sunburn, Slam Bam, Prism Break, Drobot / Clockwork Dragon and finally Cynder / Shadow Dancer for the Xbox/PS3/PC version.
Also, does anyone know if Double Trouble / Channeler is as any better or worse on the Xbox/PS3/PC version compared to the Wii version?

my suggestion for wii list:
upper A
terrafin brawler
slam bam blizzard brawler
bash granite dragon
dino-rang boomerang master
sonic boom medea griffin
lower A
double trouble conjuror
sunburn flamelord
bash pulver dragon
hex bone crafter
prism break crystaleer
boomer demolition troll (promoted!)

i don't know about zook, cynder, eruptor, ignitor and clockwork drobot. also double trouble channeler should be on S tier

Thank you, Voodude. I'll make use of some of your sugestions.
Just so you know, Double Trouble / Channeler IS in S Tier! (For Wii version, but I don't know about the Xbox/PS3/PC version which is why I asked.)

• Slam Bam / Blizzard Brawler moved to Upper A Tier
  
• Double Trouble / Conjurer placed in Lower A Tier
  

Can anyone give me information about how Boomer / Demolition Troll matches up against the Lower-A Tier characters before I consider moving him?
I could also do with some more detailed information about Sonic Boom / Medea Griffin so I can decide whether she belongs in the Upper or Lower A Tier.

On the Wii at least, Boomer beats Marauder Voodood, Blizzard Brawler Slam Bam and Granite Dragon Bash regularly. He also beats Bone Crafter Hex. I'm not too sure about the others though. Boomer only really works well against melee characters, and is also slow and has a very low hp. Eruptor is better at a melee killer for the Wii than Boomer, but also really struggle against ranged attackers like Flameslinger, since they can only really do enough damage when close up.

Sonic Boom Medea Griffon is lower A tier in my opinion. The rest of the upper A-tier pretty much destroys Sonic Boom with ease. Also, I think that Prism Break should be in the B-tier-it might just be because I am rubbish with him though

Thank you for this list!

Yay! This is coming together; really cool.

FYI Double Trouble / Channeler is in S and A tier for WII.

Also if people agree can I suggest we remove the legendaries from the list as it makes it easier to read without the double up. I mean they are essentially the same.

Bash in Granite path really needs to be moved to upper a or S class right now. Seriously, He does 80 damage a swing An he can take out trigger happy with 1 Gaia Hammer
Also Glacier slam Bam should be moved to atleast B,

I think that Flame Lord Sunburn should be in the upper A tier for the Wii at least. He is very powerful, and I have done a few matchups with him and other members of the upper A-tier:

Floral Defender Zook-Zook won, but had less than a quarter of HP left.
Pulver Dragon Bash-Easy win for Sunburn.
Dino-Rang-Very close but Dino-Rang just won.
Marauder Voodood-Sunburn won.
Blizzard Brawler Slam Bam-Sunburn.
Granite Dragon Bash-Bash won.
Volcanor Eruptor-Eruptor won.

On another note, does anyone know what tier Camo, Warnado and Wham-Shell are in?

Drill Sergeant's Battledozer should move up I choose that path and it helps with long range attacks when vs another player(well he has a Drill Sergeant same path). When they turn into the mini-missles each do 18 damage so you can hit them with all those missles if there moving around or in the perfect spot for when it breaks they will all hit them.

Melon Master Camo on Wii should be S-tier. He can beat, , , and . Oh and I should mention I did not get the glitch for Camo!

Why is everybody hating hop chop! He's really good down vamporoc warrior. Plus I used him to do all the heroic challenges so he's really powerful!

@zap18: Bash is fine in Upper A tier. Again, allthough he is a really, really good character, you must remember that S Tier isn't just for really really good characters; it's for BROKEN characters!

@Cheeseman: Thank you very much for this data! I'll revise Sunburn's tier positions with your findings in mind at a later date.

@Kirby_rules: As far as I know, Battledozer Drill Sergeant's damage figures and lack of speed still don't make him good enough to be anything but a low-tier character. Megadozer is higher mostly because of its extra use of speed.

@Rand O M: Chop Chop is considered a rubbish character because his damage figures are just too low compared to his melee piers and his shield just isn't useful enough: Using Vampiric Warrior might feel powerful, especially in single player, but if you then compare his actual damage numbers with those of other melee-centric characters such as Ignitor, Terrafin or Voodood, you see that Chop Chop just isn't up to scratch.

Actually, Ignitor is consistently strong to Cynder. One of the few truly great counters to a well-played Cynder in the game. Stealth Elf is the one who beats up on him in the top tier. He doesn't have much trouble with Drobot, either, or almost any other character in the game for that matter. I completely agree with everyone saying he should be S-tier, SotF wins easily in almost all battles, to the point where a person would actually want to keep a counter for him on-hand.

Did I just get ignored? lol

Haven't had a ton of time to work with the new ones yet, but here are my preliminary recommendations.

Camo (Melon Master): Easily A-tier, because simply hiding in the melon fountain is enough to defeat most challengers. The majority of characters have no way to fight back against this, strangely enough. Perhaps even high A, if I had to pick. He's not really able to do anything against the likes of Cynder, Drobot, SotF Ignitor and Zook, but he does very well against most melee characters, and pretty much every ranged attacker besides the ones I just listed. If you play very carefully, you may even score the occasional win against Stealth Elf, but if she gets inside the melon shield and actually catches you, you're done. Escape is not Camo's strong suit.

Camo (Vine Virtuoso): A-tier as well, and it's hard to say, but he may actually do better in PVP than Melon Master. His melon fountain is still respectable, and by filling the arena with firecracker vines, he can actually go on the offensive when necessary. They might do lower damage per strike than melons, but their range is absurd, and the numbers add up very quickly. People who intend to wait just slightly outside of melon shield range for you to make a mistake won't have that luxury against Vine Virtuoso.

Wham-Shell (Captain Crustacean): He moves slowly, but the Poseidon Strike is an incredibly powerful asset that more or less prevents keep-away tactics from working on Wham-Shell at all. Being able to strike in an area, up to half the screen away, for 50 damage, helps him rack up tons of wins against close and long-range attackers alike. Add to it his high HP and Armor, relatively strong C Combo (60 damage to an area) and melee strikes (30 a pop), and we have a character who absolutely belongs in Upper A-Tier. He's what every other slow melee wishes they could be.

Wham-Shell (Commander Crab): Starfish aren't any good, and even Wham-Shell's beefy defensive stats can't make them work as something to build a character around. What's worse, they actually neglected to give him an actual starfish damage upgrade on this path, so even though he shoots three of them, they do the exact same damage per strike as Captain Crustacean's. Plus, the latching damage (2 a tick) is pathetic. Commander Crab is a C-tier character. Easily worse than both builds of Stump Smash, and Glacier Yeti Slam Bam.

Warnado (Eye of the Storm): He's kind of like Drill Sergeant, in that all of his attacks must be used pretty much simultaneously to make him effective. Sadly, he's also kind of like Drill Sergeant in the fact that doing so won't quite crack the A-tier. He's upper B, just like Megadozer, but any higher than that and he gets slaughtered.

Warnado (Wind Master): C-tier. For building an entire character around the tornado attacks, they should really do more damage than 40. It's hard to win with just that one attack, and you have no other weapons at your disposal. You probably won't lose to Chop Chop, at least.

Zook (Artilleryman): Too approachable to be any higher than B-tier, and mushroom shields are definitely not a deterrent. MIRV shots do the exact same damage as Floral Defender, but without the cacti. Regular blasts and shrapnel aren't really all that much more damaging, and definitely not enough to crack A-tier... even at the bottom. Still, he's better than the C-tier goon squad.

Ghost Roaster (Skull Master): He's pretty much just as good as Fear Eater. They beat the same characters, and they lose to the same characters. I really wouldn't call his two builds anything other than interchangeable.

Wrecking Ball (Total Tongue): C-tier through and through. The tongue does mediocre damage, and his main PVE perk (60-damage belches after you've eaten an enemy) are only in play against select characters, such as Sonic Boom, where you can eat the babies to charge it. Tough to score a win with this build.

Lightning Rod (Typhoon Titan): Probably C. He just doesn't do enough damage to make his pseudo-defensive build useful. Has trouble even depleting Trigger Happy's dreadfully low HP, and Zapper Clouds don't deter attackers the way they were probably intended to. A steady stream of 10-15 damage is not enough in a PVP mode dominated by heavy hitters.


Also, I propose Floral Defender Zook for S-tier. He's incredibly hard to actually win against for nearly all characters, and most wins come as a result of a mistake by Zook's player rather than a disadvantage of the character himself. Soul of the Flame Ignitor eats him, but that's true for so many characters that it's hardly enough to deter me from recommending him for a tier boost. What does everyone else think?

Quote: EgoNaut

@zap18: Bash is fine in Upper A tier. Again, allthough he is a really, really good character, you must remember that S Tier isn't just for really really good characters; it's for BROKEN characters!

@Cheeseman: Thank you very much for this data! I'll revise Sunburn's tier positions with your findings in mind at a later date.

@Kirby_rules: As far as I know, Battledozer Drill Sergeant's damage figures and lack of speed still don't make him good enough to be anything but a low-tier character. Megadozer is higher mostly because of its extra use of speed.

@Rand O M: Chop Chop is considered a rubbish character because his damage figures are just too low compared to his melee piers and his shield just isn't useful enough: Using Vampiric Warrior might feel powerful, especially in single player, but if you then compare his actual damage numbers with those of other melee-centric characters such as Ignitor, Terrafin or Voodood, you see that Chop Chop just isn't up to scratch.

Well that's what you think... I'm keeping my opinion.

Floral Defender Zook should be S-tier in my opinion as well. He does well against all of them, and he regualarly wins against Drobot. I haven't tried him against Terrafin or Double Trouble yet, but he beats the entire upper A-tier hands down.

I would also like to make a case for Dino-Rang. I have only just recently mastered his Boomerang Shield, but it turns him into a complete monster. He even manages to beat Stealth Elf for me. He is as good as Zook in my opinion.

@Tashiji: You're right about Ignitor and Cynder. I think I was thinking of another character when I said that.
Thank you for all the information. I will assign those characters to the tiers you suggested for now, and then we can move them as more information becomes available.

@lippyskillz: It's not that I ignored you, but rather I just didn't have anything to say in response to your comment. Actually, I don't think I understood what you meant, so could you specify?

@Kirby_rules: I don't know specifics on Battledozer Drill Sarge because I don't own him, but from the things I've read time and time again I'm pretty sure i'm correct. You can ask Tashiji about it for more definite information.

• Camo / Melon Master placed in Upper A tier.
  
• Camo / Vine Virtuoso placed in Upper A tier.
  
• Wham-Shell / Captain Crustacean placed in Upper A tier.
  
• Wham-Shell / Commander Crab placed in C tier.
  
• Warnado / Eye of the Storm placed in B tier.
  
• Warnado / Wind Master placed in C tier.
  
• Zook / Artilleryman placed in B tier.
  
• Ghost Roaster / Skull Master placed in B tier. (For the Wii list this means he was moved up from C tier.)
  
• Wrecking Ball / Total Tongue placed in C tier.
  
• Lightning Rod / Typhoon Titan placed in C tier.
  
• Zook / Floral Defender moved to S tier.
  

I agree with others that floral defender zook should be S tier. For me, he has only lost one battle ever and that was against ignitor

I'm not changing my thought my Drill only lost 2 times and that was against Stump Smash and Ghost Roaster....

I have did some battles with Boomer last night against other members of the lower A-tier:

Prism Break(Crystaleer): Prism Break won
Hex(Bone Crafter): Boomer won
Sonic Boom(Medea Griffon): Boomer won

All of these battles were incredibly close-Prism Break had less than 30hp left, while Boomer had less than 50 against Hex. Boomer had over 100 against Sonic Boom, but that was only because I played rubbish in the last part-both were pretty much equal for the rest of the battle.

Also, are you going to move Sunburn up to the upper-A? I can't see him losing to any of the lower A-tier, and he does incredibly well against melee attackers-one of the best Stealth Elf counters I can find.

Quote: Cheeseman

I have did some battles with Boomer last night against other members of the lower A-tier:

Prism Break(Crystaleer): Prism Break won
Hex(Bone Crafter): Boomer won
Sonic Boom(Medea Griffon): Boomer won

All of these battles were incredibly close-Prism Break had less than 30hp left, while Boomer had less than 50 against Hex. Boomer had over 100 against Sonic Boom, but that was only because I played rubbish in the last part-both were pretty much equal for the rest of the battle.

Also, are you going to move Sunburn up to the upper-A? I can't see him losing to any of the lower A-tier, and he does incredibly well against melee attackers-one of the best Stealth Elf counters I can find.

boomer will always end a battle with few hp left. his max health is only 460

Would anyone support me in that Sunburn should be in the upper A tier? He is definitely too low in the lower A tier for sure.

Typhoon Titan Lightning Rod should be lower A tier.With zapper field deluxe the clouds turn around you faster, and the zapper field does 18 damage,and each cloud does 10 so,LR does around 48 damage per second which i pretty good if you ask me.Oh,and i play the 360 version

EgoNaut,
You have Double Trouble /Channeler for the Wii in both S tier and Upper A, is there a reason for that?

That's what I was trying to say thanks @swohhwork

Also I don't think it is necessary to have the legendaries on the tier list. They will beat the same skylanders and on the flip side lose to the same ones.

A tier thread?.
Great, another Smogon....
I mean really, people can use whatever they want without being judged cause it apparently is a "sucky" character or "overpowered".

Quote: arceustheprime

A tier thread?.
Great, another Smogon....
I mean really, people can use whatever they want without being judged cause it apparently is a "sucky" character or "overpowered".

yeah because chop chop isn't underpowered and stealth elf isn't overpowered...

Ok so I have been doing quite a few PVP battles over the past few days, and I am working on a counter list. So far though, I have only done it for the S tier and upper A tier, and need to do some more work with Floral Defender Zook and Grand Boomerang Master Dino-Rang as well as Sandhog Terrafin and Medea Griffon Sonic Boom against the earth champions(barring Grand Boomerang Master Dino-Rang and Sandhog Terrafin).

Note: I have included Flame Lord Sunburn in the upper A tier, because in my opinion he is. Also, this list is for the wii. If I get the PS3 version for my birthday, I may do another one because of the numerous character differences.

S Tier

Pook Blade Saint: Shadow Dancer Cynder, Volcanor Eruptor, Flame Lord Sunburn

Master Blaster Drobot: Pook Blade Saint Stealth Elf, Soul of the Flame Ignitor, Blizzard Brawler Slam Bam, Granite Dragon Bash, Pulver Dragon Bash, Sandhog Terrafin

Sandhog Terrafin: Pook Blade Saint Stealth Elf

Shadow Dancer Cynder: Master Blaster Drobot, Channeler Double Trouble, Soul of the Flame Ignitor

Soul of the Flame Ignitor: Pook Blade Saint Stealth Elf, Blizzard Brawler Slam Bam, Granite Dragon Bash, Sandhog Terrafin

Channeler Double Trouble: Pook Blade Saint Stealth Elf, Master Blaster Drobot, Sandhog Terrafin

Floral Defender Zook: Pook Blade Saint Stealth Elf, Sandhog Terrafin, Soul of the Flame Ignitor, Shadow Dancer Cynder

Upper A Tier

Volcanor Eruptor: Soul of the Flame Ignitor, Master Blaster Drobot, Shadow Dancer Cynder, Channeler Double Trouble, Sandhog Terrafin, Water Weaver Gill Grunt, Slime Serpent Zap, Marksman Flameslinger, Grand Boomerang Master Dino-Rang

Marauder Voodood: Pook Blade Saint Stealth Elf, Master Blaster Drobot, Shadow Dancer Cynder, Floral Defender Zook, Granite Dragon Bash, Sandhog Terrafin, Blizzard Brawler Slam Bam, Flame Lord Sunburn

Flame Lord Sunburn: Master Blaster Drobot, Shadow Dancer Cynder, Water Weaver Gill Grunt, Slime Serpent Zap, Grand Boomerang Master Dino-Rang, Sandhog Terrafin, Channeler Double Trouble, Volcanor Eruptor

Granite Dragon Bash: Pook Blade Saint Stealth Elf, Volcanor Eruptor, Grand Boomerang Master Dino-Rang, Sandhog Terrafin, Flame Lord Sunburn, Floral Defender Zook, Shadow Dancer Cynder

Blizzard Brawler Slam Bam: Pook Blade Saint Stealth Elf, Volcanor Eruptor, Sandhog Terrafin, Flame Lord Sunburn, Floral Defender Zook, Granite Dragon Bash, Shadow Dancer Cynder, Grand Boomerang Master Dino-Rang

Grand Boomerang Master Dino-Rang: Pook Blade Saint Stealth Elf, Sandhog Terrafin, Channeler Double Trouble, Floral Defender Zook, Marauder Voodood, Shadow Dancer Cynder

I hope that you find it useful.

(Wii) we are forgetting about sunburn! he is definitively on of the better characters and should be put in lower A-tier. his flame lord path does nice amounts of damage and makes him invincible for a few secs.blaze dragon when fully charged does OP amounts of damage when fully charged (i think its 30 every half sec and remember 50 is considered a powerful attack) he also becomes in flames making him invincible (i think) forever!!

The next day

thanks for puttin him in the upper A tier he deserves it hes kinda OP

Quote: EpicSauce

(Wii) we are forgetting about sunburn! he is definitively on of the better characters and should be put in lower A-tier. his flame lord path does nice amounts of damage and makes him invincible for a few secs.blaze dragon when fully charged does OP amounts of damage when fully charged (i think its 30 every half sec and remember 50 is considered a powerful attack) he also becomes in flames making him invincible (i think) forever!!

He already is in the lower A tier.