darkSpyro

Tier Clarifications has been added to the PVP Clarifications topic!

Quote: Beautiful Heart

YES. EXACTLY LIKE POKEMON.

So we'll have

"The Ones That Beat Me That One Time And Instead Of Learning How To Deal With It And Counter It I Can't Stop Crying About It So Please Ban It" Tier
"Too Many People Use Them So Don't Use Them If You Want To Pretend You're Cool" Tier
"It's Okay To Use These, They're Pretty Good And Not Many People Use Them" Tier
"Hipster" Tier
and
"These Are Bad, Don't Use Them Or We Laugh At You And Ostracize You From the Community Forever" Tier

Or maybe we'll just have a normal old tier list...

I have some suggestions for the tier list, mainly for characters who need to move up, I will try to find some that should take a dip later but for now....

Lightning rod Typhoon titan deserves a drastic bump. When I see people talking trash about it I wonder if they actually know about what the clouds main purpose is: the zapper field. Clouds plus zapper field is a very dangerous combination. If someone is getting in Lightning rod's face he can just spam the zapper field for MUCH more damage than you would expect with those clouds. I would place this guy in upper A tier but at least getting him out of C tier would be nice.

Next I suggest Wrecking ball ultimate spinner gets bumped up to lower A at least. I have had INSANE experiences fighting him. A forcefield ball spamming WB player can really make your life miserable, and the fact that he can blow the forcefield ball up and deal an extra 20 damage just adds to the insanity.

And this is all on the wii version, I hope you consider these suggestions and thank you in advance

^ I actually agree with both of these, but I wouldn't be sure where to up because I haven't tested him very much.

I disagree with those, but not too strongly for the Wrecking ball one. For LR, the Typhoon Titan, while powerful up-close, is a sitting duck if the opponent gets away and uses ranged attacks. And a meleeist can repeatedly hit LR non-stop, making him unable to start the zapper field.

Its true that typhoon titan lightning rod has some problems with ranged skylanders but they are not as bad as they seem. Never forget that LR has his trusty primary bolt attack which has excellent range and will deal decent damage and his neglected grand lightning attack which still has some use( chasing down slowpokes like Prism break) especially if you are at a higher elevation than your enemy(mushroom grove favors this attack) As for the statement about melee characters and him....in my testings I have not had a problem with someone stopping me from pulling off the zapper field at all. It also should be noted that the zapper field activates INSTANTLY after you press z.
And so at the end of the day my typhoon titan lightning rod is in my opinion worthy of being bumped from the C tier.
Also I would like to hear why you disagree with Ultimate spinner wrecking ball.

I haven't done ALL that much testing with Typhoon Titan, but it just doesn't seem to do enough damage to do its job properly. And the primary attack has never worked for me; so many other projectiles outclass it. And L-Rod has always been too slow to get close enough for the Zapper field to damage an opponent. Finally, I checked the lower B-tier, and the only meleeist there that L-Rod could beat is Chop Chop Undead Defender. The rest of them could beat Typhoon Titan.

As for Wrecking Ball, my only concern is that, although he does good damage, he takes a while to learn how to control him, and this list isn't about how good a character is if you have a lot of practice with him.

Good points. I say we just leave them where they are for now. We really need to retest this list.

Thanks Nibelilt. And good point on the wrecking ball topic beansprout I guess you're right that the forcefield ball really requires some finesse to be heavily abused.

I made a few changes to my list (I'm still keeping Medea Grifffin in Low Tier, that path sucks, I don't care what people say), I also added :wb: to it cuz I got him today.

Broken Tier: (Brawler), (Master Blaster), (Fear Eater), :cy: (Shadowdancer), (Granite Dragon), :dr: (Grand Master Boomerang), (Marauder). (Smash N Bash), (Captin Crustacean)

High Tier: (Blitz Spyro only), (Pook Blade Saint) :zp: (Telsa Dragon), (volcanor) (Wind Master), (Water Weaver), (Sandhog), (Nut Crafter), (Elementalist), (Floral Defender), (Blizzard Brawler), :wb: (Ultimate Spinner)

Mid Tier: (Crystaleer only), (Golden Money Bags only), (Artilleryman), (Siren Griffin), (melon master), (Pyromancer), (Commander Crab), :ww: (Tempest Dragon), (Eye of the Storm), (Skull Master), (Vampiric Warrior), (Pulver Dragon)

Low Tier:, (Medea Griffin), (Prismancer) :dr: (Earthen Avenger), :cy: (Nether Welder), (Marksman), :zp: (Sea Serpent Slime), (Harpooner), (vine virtuso)

Sad Tier: :ww: (Ultimate Rainbower), (Sheep Burner Spyro), (Glacier Yeti), , (Forest Ninja), (Magmator), (Golden Frenzy), (Undead Defender)

@LightSpyro13: Most of those placements are pretty reasonable, but somehow one in particular has caught my eye tonight that i'd be interested to hear your angle on:
Stump Smash / Smash N Bash in top tier...!?

From what I understand the only thing that upgrade path has going for it is that it has one very powerful melee attack, and that's about it. Stump Smash as I know him is way too slow, both moving and attacking, to sucessfully melee any other characters besides the other slow ones like Prism Break and the other not-so-agile melee characters.
Any character who attacks at range (with enough speed or agility to keep that range) and any character that can hit-and-run (like Stealth Elf or Voodood) should flatten Stump Smash.

I'm interested to hear your support for Stump Smash, so please explain!

@Egonaut

Because has a tankload of health and all of the upgrades on Smash N Bash were pretty useful for me (except the Stumpfist Spin Combo and the Smash Meganut, somewhat)., 680 health is not even fair. I find to be one of my most powerful & fun. Yeah he's slow and better for close range; but his melee attacks, acorns that slow down people (they do good damage too), and his meganuts make up for that (although the Meganuts are useless until you choose an upgrade path).

His Stumpfist Charge is good for doing damage and speeding him up whenever he needs it (but I like his primary combo betetr cuz it does 90 damage).

His acorns slow down the opponent and they take a little while to shake off (unlike Slam Bam's Ice Prisons that can be broken in a nanosecond), it's good for fighting speedy people if you can get close enough to use them.

The Meganut can be used as a shield to block shots from projectile characters like (unless they're using someone who can shoot projectiles in an arc like 's Arrow Rains or 's flame spirit), and then you can let loose with an Acorn Croquet. The Meganut Bomb was kinda useless though, I only got use for using it when my opponent is trapped in a corner or if I'm trying to finish them off.

is alot faster than Stump Smash, a better critical hit rate (I think), and a slightly better soul gem; but has weaker attacks, lower health & armor, and no projectiles. Similar to cpmaring & .

I have found that Trigger Happy golden frenzy needs a bump.

This is because of the bouncing bullets. They give him a great way to retreat and attack at the same time The yamato blast can be charaged at the beginning of the round and your opponent will not dare come near you.

Unfortunately though, Trigger Happy is simply plagued with too-low HP: the lowest in the game, a measly 400. This is why Golden Moneybags isn't higher. Trigger Happy lacks means to escape, without a dash attack or good speed, which with his low HP makes him the ultimate glass cannon, very powerful, but terribly easy to defeat.

Trigger happy does a great job of covering his Health problems although (I think he and Drobot should switch HP.580 at level 10?!? Hes good enough and it would balance drobot and TH out a bit) if you can infest the stage with bouncing bullets fighting Trigger Happy will become obnoxiously difficult especially at mushroom grove. I just thinknhe deserves lower B tier I'm not saying he needs to go up to upper A of anything but he is very underrated(Same with Typhoon Titan L rod)

First of all, in ALL of my battles, the Yamato Blast has NEVER been able to be used. It can be easily uninterrupted.
Second of all, even with the sped of the bullets, most characters can do more damage per unit of time than he can. Also, this is minor, but you cannot use the machine gun while the bullets are bouncing around.

Hm. Try charging the yamato blast up at the beginning of a match I have always been able to do it when I want and after I charge it up my opponent wont dare come near me and I can usually hit them for the insane damage known as the yamato blast.

With bouncing bullets you can get to higher elevation than your enemy and fill their Terrain with bouncing bullet that aren't easily dodged.

And yes you're right about the machine gunn thing but I don't use it often and most TH players should not unless they are a good distance from their enemy. From my gratings Golden frenzy still is sub par but not at all BAD.

What usually happens in that scenario is I start charging, but the enemy can get closer to me easily (since TH is quite slow) and they are able to interrupt the blast.

And TH is too slow to be able to do that effectively; the opponent can usually just get close enough to damage TH before he is able to fill the screen.

I checked the lower B tier, and GF will get beaten by most of them there. Glacier Yeti can use the dash attack to get close to TH before he can do any real damage, Zap can pull off more damage and has an effective dash attack, and the combination of DS's moves can easily pull off more damage than GF can.

Quote: Bean Sprout

First of all, in ALL of my battles, the Yamato Blast has NEVER been able to be used. It can be easily uninterrupted.
Second of all, even with the sped of the bullets, most characters can do more damage per unit of time than he can. Also, this is minor, but you cannot use the machine gun while the bullets are bouncing around.

^
This.

My opinions on your list (not all of them, just the unique ones that caught my eye).

Spyro: Sheep Burner Spyro should be placed WAY lower on the list, Sheep Burner is terrible in pvp. I got beaten several times on that path. Blitz Spyro should be placed a little bit higher because he can stun his enemy and his charge does massive damage. His charge does get harder to control though.

Terrafin: Sandhog should be placed in the Upper A Tier instead of S. Sandhog isn't broken in pvp. He gets harder to control while swimming, razorfin does petty little 15 damage, and Homing Fenzy is more of a distraction than for major damage. He's slightly well-balanced on that path in my opinion.

Stump Smash: Smash N Bash should be placed alot higher, it's not that bad. With the exception of the Stumpfist Spin Combo and the Smash Meganut (just a smidge), the upgrades were pretty good for pvp. Acorn Croquet helps as a shield against projectile characters and then you can knock the away at his opponent. He's also got a tankload of 680 health.

Camo: I disagree highly with that on both paths. Vine Virtuso does massive damage but is very easy to dodge, even with the slowest characters like . Camo excels at mid to long range, but he is very weak in close range. If you can get right into his face, he's doomed. Melon Master makes him a bit better at close range, but the melons can pop if hit by projectiles. Vine Virtuso should be in the Lower B Tier or the C Tier.

Spyro: Sheep Burner Spyro should be placed WAY lower on the list, Sheep Burner is terrible in pvp. I got beaten several times on that path. Blitz Spyro should be placed a little bit higher because he can stun his enemy and his charge does massive damage. His charge does get harder to control though.
Sheep Burner is strictly average. His Daybringer charges up fairly fast and goes across a very wide area, and he can escape using flight. However, his lackluster damage isn't low wnough to be in one of the bad tiers.
Blitz Spyro is also strictly average. His horns are too difficult to use against many opponents to warrant a higher placement.

Terrafin: Sandhog should be placed in the Upper A Tier instead of S. Sandhog isn't broken in pvp. He gets harder to control while swimming, razorfin does petty little 15 damage, and Homing Fenzy is more of a distraction than for major damage. He's slightly well-balanced on that path in my opinion.
However, the fin lasts for a good time, makes you INVINICBLE WITH NO DRAWBACKS WHILE DEALING DAMAGE, is a reliable escape option, and also allows you to go under opponents ad still bellyflop. Also, the 15 damage hits multiple times, and pretty quickly as well, for a DPS that is almost comparable to Drobot's in a way.

Stump Smash: Smash N Bash should be placed alot higher, it's not that bad. With the exception of the Stumpfist Spin Combo and the Smash Meganut (just a smidge), the upgrades were pretty good for pvp. Acorn Croquet helps as a shield against projectile characters and then you can knock the away at his opponent. He's also got a tankload of 680 health.
Never tried this path for PVP much, so I can't give input.

Camo: I disagree highly with that on both paths. Vine Virtuso does massive damage but is very easy to dodge, even with the slowest characters like . Camo excels at mid to long range, but he is very weak in close range. If you can get right into his face, he's doomed. Melon Master makes him a bit better at close range, but the melons can pop if hit by projectiles. Vine Virtuso should be in the Lower B Tier or the C Tier.
Another I haven't tried much in PVP... But Lower B or C? You gotta be kidding us now.

Spyro: Nibelilt said it perfectly. Spyro is just average.

Terrafin: You seem to forget that Terrafin is INVINCIBLE while underground. And, with the babies and the razorfin, he becomes the only character that can deal damage while taking no damage. And he still does great damage with his punches and the bellyflop.

Stump Smash: Well, Stump Smash is just WAY too slow to do any good damage. Sure, the Meganut can act like a shield, but most projectile characters can destroy it before Stump Smash can do any damage. While Smash 'n' Bash is good at defense with pure melee characters, projectile characters, which is what Lower B is composed of with the exception of Slam Bam and Chop Chop, can easily break through his defenses.

Camo: My opponent's never usually dodge the vines; they go far and they even turn at corners. Some of the effectiveness of the vines depends on the arena, I admit, but they have done good damage quickly for me. As for Melon Master, I highly prefer VV, but the insane damage that the melons do when you do pull them off (Which isn't very difficult to do in the first place) makes up for the times that the melons pop.

Quote: Nibelilt

Spyro: Sheep Burner Spyro should be placed WAY lower on the list, Sheep Burner is terrible in pvp. I got beaten several times on that path. Blitz Spyro should be placed a little bit higher because he can stun his enemy and his charge does massive damage. His charge does get harder to control though.
Sheep Burner is strictly average. His Daybringer charges up fairly fast and goes across a very wide area, and he can escape using flight. However, his lackluster damage isn't low wnough to be in one of the bad tiers.
Blitz Spyro is also strictly average. His horns are too difficult to use against many opponents to warrant a higher placement.

Terrafin: Sandhog should be placed in the Upper A Tier instead of S. Sandhog isn't broken in pvp. He gets harder to control while swimming, razorfin does petty little 15 damage, and Homing Fenzy is more of a distraction than for major damage. He's slightly well-balanced on that path in my opinion.
However, the fin lasts for a good time, makes you INVINICBLE WITH NO DRAWBACKS WHILE DEALING DAMAGE, is a reliable escape option, and also allows you to go under opponents ad still bellyflop. Also, the 15 damage hits multiple times, and pretty quickly as well, for a DPS that is almost comparable to Drobot's in a way.

Stump Smash: Smash N Bash should be placed alot higher, it's not that bad. With the exception of the Stumpfist Spin Combo and the Smash Meganut (just a smidge), the upgrades were pretty good for pvp. Acorn Croquet helps as a shield against projectile characters and then you can knock the away at his opponent. He's also got a tankload of 680 health.
Never tried this path for PVP much, so I can't give input.

Camo: I disagree highly with that on both paths. Vine Virtuso does massive damage but is very easy to dodge, even with the slowest characters like . Camo excels at mid to long range, but he is very weak in close range. If you can get right into his face, he's doomed. Melon Master makes him a bit better at close range, but the melons can pop if hit by projectiles. Vine Virtuso should be in the Lower B Tier or the C Tier.
Another I haven't tried much in PVP... But Lower B or C? You gotta be kidding us now.

Spyro: Yeah but the Daybringer only does 30 damage (unless you get a critical hit or if Spyro is facing an Undead Skylander), so it's not the best charge-up move (a bit better than some of the other ones though). The Fire Shield sucks, and teh Exploding Flameballs don't benefit much.

Terrafin: Still, the bellyflop and some shots of the feedy frenzies are the only thing saving you in pvp on Sandhog. Razorfin does petty damage, homing frenzy is the only thing that benefits (but not much); and worst of all, he gets hard to control. He may be able to stay burrowed for a good amount of time, but that's not enough to make him overpowered/broken.

Camo: This applies only to the Xbox version and only Vine Virtuso, Camo apparently plays differently on Wii than Xbox (like is better on Xbox & PS3 than he is on Wii, because his skull charge doesn't attack continiously there). Someone told me he was absurdly powerful on Wii, but he's pathetic on Xbox. I think he is weak on Vine Virtuso in pvp because they can easily be dodged and can't be used easily around walls or platforms. Melon Master should be placed a bit lower because the Melons pop if hit by projectiles, but it's the better path for him.

Can you explain to me in detail how the vines are easily dodged? Because they do go around corners, and they have a long range.

For Terrafin, honestly, it doesn't MATTER how much damage he does while underground because he cannot take damage then. The matches aren't timed; he can stay underground and deal the small amounts of damage for the whole match. It may take a while to defeat the opponent, but the time doesn't matter.

And for Spyro, the Daybringer flame charges up quite quickly, making it more efficient than most charing moves.

Quote: Bean Sprout

Spyro: Nibelilt said it perfectly. Spyro is just average.

Terrafin: You seem to forget that Terrafin is INVINCIBLE while underground. And, with the babies and the razorfin, he becomes the only character that can deal damage while taking no damage. And he still does great damage with his punches and the bellyflop.

Stump Smash: Well, Stump Smash is just WAY too slow to do any good damage. Sure, the Meganut can act like a shield, but most projectile characters can destroy it before Stump Smash can do any damage. While Smash 'n' Bash is good at defense with pure melee characters, projectile characters, which is what Lower B is composed of with the exception of Slam Bam and Chop Chop, can easily break through his defenses.

Camo: My opponent's never usually dodge the vines; they go far and they even turn at corners. Some of the effectiveness of the vines depends on the arena, I admit, but they have done good damage quickly for me. As for Melon Master, I highly prefer VV, but the insane damage that the melons do when you do pull them off (Which isn't very difficult to do in the first place) makes up for the times that the melons pop.

Spyro: Same as my previous comment to Nibelilt.

Terrafin: I'm well aware that he can't be harmed underground, I haven't forgotten. "And, with the babies and the razorfin, he becomes the only character that can deal damage while taking no damage." Yeah but petty little damage, so razorfin sucks. The mini sharks are a little bit helpful while burrowing, but like I said, they are only good for interrupting your enemy's attacks or dealing minor damage. The punches only do 23 damage without Brawler (not counting critical hits or elemental damage) and his combo is a little slow. And like I said: Even though Terrafin gets faster on Sandhog, he gets harder to control while swimming, so it can be a problem with the bellyflop. terrafin is still very powerful on Sandhog, but not exactly what I'd call broken.

Stump Smash: My opponents NEVER destroy the Meganut. In fact it's not even possible for your opponent to destroy the Meganut (well at least not xbox). I tried it to make sure you're right and I wasn't able to do ANYTHING to the nut. The meganut will last until any of the following has occured:

1. It stays around for a while and then automatically disappears.

2. smashes the nut himself on Smash N Bash and makes it explode or on Nut Crafter to make normal acorns burst from it.

And he is slow, I'll give you that. BUT he has a tankload of 680 health and his attacks do alot of damage, if you get anywhere close to him, you're pretty much doomed unless you can escape. His acorns also slow you down (except on Terrafin because of a glitch, the acorns don't slow him down) and do a lightly good amount of damage, I use it to pester my opponent and keep them from running away so I can get in close and finish him/her off). is faster than Stump Smash, has a higher critical hit rate, and is better at long range; but he has alot lower health (only 400, pathetic), weaker attacks (besides the Heads or Tails on GMB or Golden Yamato Blast on GF), and is absurdly weak in close range. He is annoying and powerful, but terribly easy to defeat. Stump Smash won't be too hard to KO, but he'll hang around for a while. He is not very good at fighting people at a disttance if he's on Nut Crafter though.

Camo: I only use the melons if my opponent is very close to me or if I'm facing a melee character like . The Melons do tons of damage, but can easilybe stopped by shots. The vines are tricky to use around walls or on platforms and my opponent, it's annoying and it usually allows my opponent to escape. But I have the xbox version and Camo plays kind of poorly on it, but someone told me plays ALOT better on Wii (the opposite goes for Ghost Roaster), so I'm going for version exclusive here.

First of all, I play on Wii.

Terrafin: Quote:

For Terrafin, honestly, it doesn't MATTER how much damage he does while underground because he cannot take damage then. The matches aren't timed; he can stay underground and deal the small amounts of damage for the whole match. It may take a while to defeat the opponent, but the time doesn't matter.

Stump Smash: Really? On the Wii, the Meganut can get destroyed quite easily by
opponent's attacks, as can other barriers such as Bash's Stone wall. You say that he is a force to be reckoned with up close. This is true, but with his atrocious speed, he can't get close very easily at all, allowing enemies to damage Stump Smash while not being harmed that much. This is especially true for the characters in Lower B, as they all have either a higher speed or a dashing move.

Camo: Like I said, I would really like to know in detail how opponents can dodge the vines, as they have always been able to hit for me. And I do play on the Wii, so that may make a difference, but Camo has usually been able to deal damage in great amounts with not much difficulty.

LS11, you take the frenzy as a serious attack? Hah, that's enough to not take what you're saying seriously. They are pathetic, outrun by the dig and do only 8 damage. I'm sorry, I just can't take anything you say about PVP realistically now.

Quote: Bean Sprout

First of all, I play on Wii.

Terrafin: Quote:

For Terrafin, honestly, it doesn't MATTER how much damage he does while underground because he cannot take damage then. The matches aren't timed; he can stay underground and deal the small amounts of damage for the whole match. It may take a while to defeat the opponent, but the time doesn't matter.

Stump Smash: Really? On the Wii, the Meganut can get destroyed quite easily by
opponent's attacks, as can other barriers such as Bash's Stone wall. You say that he is a force to be reckoned with up close. This is true, but with his atrocious speed, he can't get close very easily at all, allowing enemies to damage Stump Smash while not being harmed that much. This is especially true for the characters in Lower B, as they all have either a higher speed or a dashing move.

Camo: Like I said, I would really like to know in detail how opponents can dodge the vines, as they have always been able to hit for me. And I do play on the Wii, so that may make a difference, but Camo has usually been able to deal damage in great amounts with not much difficulty.

Terrafin: Still, not enough to make him broken. I'll admit, he is really broken on the Brawler path, and Sandog still is powerful.

Stump Smash: I tried it again with Drobot. I used the eye lasers and the bladegears (on Clockwork Dragon BTW, Master Blaster is SOOOOO boring), and they didn't do anything to the Meganut. It may work on wii, but it never works on Xbox, he can only destroy the nut himself or wait for it to disappear on its own. And need I remind you about his 680 health and his acorns? You just use the acorns to reduce your opponents chances of escape, it slows them down (even though they can be shaken off, it takes a bit longer to do so than 's Ice Prisons) and does a slightly good amount of damage. And always remember to do Speed Heroic Challenges with him, I also equipped a Lil Devil hat on him to make him faster. Although, if you have someone with Arc projectiles (such as and his Arrow rain), you could possibly shoot over the Meganut to get to him.

Camo: Simple, run to the side before the vines finish growing to dodge it, my opponents tend to do that and so do I. Or if you got a fast melee character like or , boost into right into Camo's face before the vines seriously damage you and then let him have it. Before I got , I was originally going to take Vine Virtuso because it seemed cooler. But when I actually got him, I chose Melon Master instead beacaause he was EXTREMELY weak in close range and was doomed if you can get into his face. Camo is good, but nowhere near as good as everyone says he is.

Quote: Nibelilt

LS11, you take the frenzy as a serious attack? Hah, that's enough to not take what you're saying seriously. They are pathetic, outrun by the dig and do only 8 damage. I'm sorry, I just can't take anything you say about PVP realistically now.

*facepalm*

1. First of all, the mini sharks do 12 damage on sandhog, not 8.

2. I DON'T take them seriously actually. If you were paying attention, I crystal clearly said I mainly use them for annoying my opponent and preventing them from accting me and/or for dealing minor damage.

3. The mini sharks aren't that great, but at least the Homing Frenzy was the one useful upgrade on Sandhog in pvp.

This thing about the dodgeability of Camo's vine attack between the consoles sounds interesting. I'd apreciate it if anyone could investigate.

It'll be fun to see what comes up when we do one of these for the skylanders Giants characters.

I could reset my Camo back to Vine Virtuso, but I don't really wanna. Like I said, he's very bad at close range and Melon master is the only way to save him in it.

I suggest a move up for magmantor Eruptor. I find it an extremely good path, although it is often overshadowed by volcanor. On magmantor, his magma lob becomes really reinforced by the fiery patches the lobs leave. And if enemys get too close, his eruption attack is already good enough, dealing 8 rapid damage. I hope you take this into consideration.

Quote: LightSpyro13

Quote: Nibelilt

LS11, you take the frenzy as a serious attack? Hah, that's enough to not take what you're saying seriously. They are pathetic, outrun by the dig and do only 8 damage. I'm sorry, I just can't take anything you say about PVP realistically now.

*facepalm*

1. First of all, the mini sharks do 12 damage on sandhog, not 8.

2. I DON'T take them seriously actually. If you were paying attention, I crystal clearly said I mainly use them for annoying my opponent and preventing them from accting me and/or for dealing minor damage.

3. The mini sharks aren't that great, but at least the Homing Frenzy was the one useful upgrade on Sandhog in pvp.

1. My mistake then. However, the fin still does superior damage and outruns them.
2. I'm rereading it and I still don't see how you said that.
Homing Frenzy the one useful upgrade? Seriously? Razorfin would like to talk with you. In fact, if I had a YouTube account, right now I would make a montage of reasons why Terrafin belongs in the S Tier.

Quote: EgoNaut

This thing about the dodgeability of Camo's vine attack between the consoles sounds interesting. I'd apreciate it if anyone could investigate.

To be honest, I'd like to see more of the console differences explored in general. I'd also like to know what console nerfs the PC version received, as I don't think we have a list of them and I believe they differ from PS360.

Quote: LightSpyro13

Quote: Bean Sprout

First of all, I play on Wii.

Terrafin: Quote:

For Terrafin, honestly, it doesn't MATTER how much damage he does while underground because he cannot take damage then. The matches aren't timed; he can stay underground and deal the small amounts of damage for the whole match. It may take a while to defeat the opponent, but the time doesn't matter.

Stump Smash: Really? On the Wii, the Meganut can get destroyed quite easily by
opponent's attacks, as can other barriers such as Bash's Stone wall. You say that he is a force to be reckoned with up close. This is true, but with his atrocious speed, he can't get close very easily at all, allowing enemies to damage Stump Smash while not being harmed that much. This is especially true for the characters in Lower B, as they all have either a higher speed or a dashing move.

Camo: Like I said, I would really like to know in detail how opponents can dodge the vines, as they have always been able to hit for me. And I do play on the Wii, so that may make a difference, but Camo has usually been able to deal damage in great amounts with not much difficulty.

Terrafin: Still, not enough to make him broken. I'll admit, he is really broken on the Brawler path, and Sandog still is powerful.

Stump Smash: I tried it again with Drobot. I used the eye lasers and the bladegears (on Clockwork Dragon BTW, Master Blaster is SOOOOO boring), and they didn't do anything to the Meganut. It may work on wii, but it never works on Xbox, he can only destroy the nut himself or wait for it to disappear on its own. And need I remind you about his 680 health and his acorns? You just use the acorns to reduce your opponents chances of escape, it slows them down (even though they can be shaken off, it takes a bit longer to do so than 's Ice Prisons) and does a slightly good amount of damage. And always remember to do Speed Heroic Challenges with him, I also equipped a Lil Devil hat on him to make him faster. Although, if you have someone with Arc projectiles (such as and his Arrow rain), you could possibly shoot over the Meganut to get to him.

Camo: Simple, run to the side before the vines finish growing to dodge it, my opponents tend to do that and so do I. Or if you got a fast melee character like or , boost into right into Camo's face before the vines seriously damage you and then let him have it. Before I got , I was originally going to take Vine Virtuso because it seemed cooler. But when I actually got him, I chose Melon Master instead beacaause he was EXTREMELY weak in close range and was doomed if you can get into his face. Camo is good, but nowhere near as good as everyone says he is.

Terrafin: Here is the thing you aren't understanding: Since Terrafin has the potential to be INVINCIBLE, it doesn't matter that he doesn't do as much damage as Brawler. Because he doesn't take any damage while underground, he can slowly but surely kill opponents with ease.

Stump Smash: Well, that is a version difference. Still, Smash and bash doesn't have a damage upgrade, it doesn't upgrade the acorns, (Which is the main thing that makes Stump Smash very helpful in PVP, because they make up for his speed) so the only thing he has going for him is the Acorn Croquet. Since most Skylanders have a way to outspeed him (especially the characters in Lower , and the acorns aren't very effective at slowing on that path, that really sometimes is his only method of damage.

Camo: This might be the Wii version, but the vines have always been too fast for that to happen. And people like Camo mainly because the usability/damage ratio of his attacks is fantastic.

Quote: Nibelilt

Quote: EgoNaut

This thing about the dodgeability of Camo's vine attack between the consoles sounds interesting. I'd apreciate it if anyone could investigate.

To be honest, I'd like to see more of the console differences explored in general. I'd also like to know what console nerfs the PC version received, as I don't think we have a list of them and I believe they differ from PS360.

I'm pretty sure the PC version is identical to the Xbox and PS3 versions.

Egonaut, the PC version is the same as PS3 and Xbox. The wii is the only one that is different.

Just so people know, the moment 'Giants comes out I will make a seperate Skylanders Giants tier list thread in the Skylanders Giants forum.

Not only will the new characters obviously have an influence on things, but I also imagine and hope that there will be balancing tweaks on the already-existing characters. In general, I imagine with excitement that a tier list for 'Giants will look really different to a current one for Spyro's Adventure.

Good, Egonaut. That is what I want. Quick question: Are you going to include the Giants with the reuglars, make a separate list for them, or what?

Quote: Bean Sprout

Good, Egonaut. That is what I want. Quick question: Are you going to include the Giants with the reuglars, make a separate list for them, or what?

I believe a Toys for Bob developer said in an interview from a while back that they are going make the Giants not that much more powerful in practice than the regular skylanders, so I think provided that this is the case that it should be okay to include the Giants in the same list.

Alright, thanks. I just don't want to put regulars in the A tier that would be in the S tier if it weren't for Giants.

Quote: Bean Sprout

Quote: LightSpyro13

Quote: Bean Sprout

First of all, I play on Wii.

Terrafin:

Stump Smash: Really? On the Wii, the Meganut can get destroyed quite easily by
opponent's attacks, as can other barriers such as Bash's Stone wall. You say that he is a force to be reckoned with up close. This is true, but with his atrocious speed, he can't get close very easily at all, allowing enemies to damage Stump Smash while not being harmed that much. This is especially true for the characters in Lower B, as they all have either a higher speed or a dashing move.

Camo: Like I said, I would really like to know in detail how opponents can dodge the vines, as they have always been able to hit for me. And I do play on the Wii, so that may make a difference, but Camo has usually been able to deal damage in great amounts with not much difficulty.

Terrafin: Still, not enough to make him broken. I'll admit, he is really broken on the Brawler path, and Sandog still is powerful.

Stump Smash: I tried it again with Drobot. I used the eye lasers and the bladegears (on Clockwork Dragon BTW, Master Blaster is SOOOOO boring), and they didn't do anything to the Meganut. It may work on wii, but it never works on Xbox, he can only destroy the nut himself or wait for it to disappear on its own. And need I remind you about his 680 health and his acorns? You just use the acorns to reduce your opponents chances of escape, it slows them down (even though they can be shaken off, it takes a bit longer to do so than 's Ice Prisons) and does a slightly good amount of damage. And always remember to do Speed Heroic Challenges with him, I also equipped a Lil Devil hat on him to make him faster. Although, if you have someone with Arc projectiles (such as and his Arrow rain), you could possibly shoot over the Meganut to get to him.

Camo: Simple, run to the side before the vines finish growing to dodge it, my opponents tend to do that and so do I. Or if you got a fast melee character like or , boost into right into Camo's face before the vines seriously damage you and then let him have it. Before I got , I was originally going to take Vine Virtuso because it seemed cooler. But when I actually got him, I chose Melon Master instead beacaause he was EXTREMELY weak in close range and was doomed if you can get into his face. Camo is good, but nowhere near as good as everyone says he is.

Terrafin: Here is the thing you aren't understanding: Since Terrafin has the potential to be INVINCIBLE, it doesn't matter that he doesn't do as much damage as Brawler. Because he doesn't take any damage while underground, he can slowly but surely kill opponents with ease.

Stump Smash: Well, that is a version difference. Still, Smash and bash doesn't have a damage upgrade, it doesn't upgrade the acorns, (Which is the main thing that makes Stump Smash very helpful in PVP, because they make up for his speed) so the only thing he has going for him is the Acorn Croquet. Since most Skylanders have a way to outspeed him (especially the characters in Lower , and the acorns aren't very effective at slowing on that path, that really sometimes is his only method of damage.

Camo: This might be the Wii version, but the vines have always been too fast for that to happen. And people like Camo mainly because the usability/damage ratio of his attacks is fantastic.

1. I'm well aware that Terrafin is Invincible underground and can't be harmed. But damage does matter. 's Auto Blaster automatically locks on to your opponent and you can hold down the button while using the other attacks, but it does very weak damage and can run out of power, so it's useless in pvp unless is on Megadozer instead of Battledozer. And let me say this: Terrafin is invincible underground & can damage people while burrowed; but he gets alot harder to control on Sandhog, he can still be damaged when he performs the bellyflop (like you can use 's lasers on him when he jumps out), and razorfin does weak damage and is pretty useless unless your opponent has low health.

2. Neither does Nut Crafter, it doesn't increase damage either. BUT, his Stumpfist Charge combo does give him a bit of a speed boost and does a good amount of damage, though his spin combo sucks. From what I've seen from a video (A review on his Nut Crafter path), the acorns don't seen to slow down enemies or opponents at all on the Wii version, he spat acorns at Lava Kings and they still kept attacking at normal speed, it didn't affect them. On Xbox though, it did slow them down alot when I did it. Stump Smash seems to be a bit better on 360 than Wii, but in my defense, at least is supposedly stronger on Wii. Every console version has its differences. If you don;t believe me, I can show you the video to prove it (I can't show an Xbox gameplay video of my experiences because I don't have a Video camera or a capture card for xbox, I would record gameplay if I could though)

3. I always manage to run away before the Vine Melons explode, unless I'm trapped at a wall. I was even able to run away using the possible slowest character: Prism Break.

1. *facepalm* (Bolded so it can go through your brain) It does NOT matter if Terrafin doesn't do very much damage while underground because he cannot take any damage! It doesn't matter if it takes a while for Terrafin to win if he can ensure that he doesn't lose. And, most of the time, he does take care of them rather quickly, because even if you get a shot or two at him while he is performing the bellyflop, he will almost always get in more damage with the bellyflop than the shot or two would. And the difference between this and the Autoblaster is that DS CAN take damage while using it.

2. Nut Crafter does get a damage upgrade for the acorns on Nut Crafter. The Pollen Plume increases the damage. Anyway, what I am saying is that if one can outspeed S & B, it is unlikely that he can do any damage. However, Nut Crafter is capable of doing nice damage, and the acorns slow the opponent down a little so he can get a few hammer attacks in. The acorns do slow a little on the Wii, I believe. And I do know that there are diverse version differences. What did I say that made you think otherwise?

3.Weird, that hasn't happened to me. But, like I said, he is quite nice in PVP because although his attacks may be dodged/popped, the damage they do when they do hit compensates for that.

Quote:

Quote: Bean Sprout

1. *facepalm* (Bolded so it can go through your brain) It does NOT matter if Terrafin doesn't do very much damage while underground because he cannot take any damage! It doesn't matter if it takes a while for Terrafin to win if he can ensure that he doesn't lose. And, most of the time, he does take care of them rather quickly, because even if you get a shot or two at him while he is performing the bellyflop, he will almost always get in more damage with the bellyflop than the shot or two would. And the difference between this and the Autoblaster is that DS CAN take damage while using it.

2. Nut Crafter does get a damage upgrade for the acorns on Nut Crafter. The Pollen Plume increases the damage. Anyway, what I am saying is that if one can outspeed S & B, it is unlikely that he can do any damage. However, Nut Crafter is capable of doing nice damage, and the acorns slow the opponent down a little so he can get a few hammer attacks in. The acorns do slow a little on the Wii, I believe. And I do know that there are diverse version differences. What did I say that made you think otherwise?

3.Weird, that hasn't happened to me. But, like I said, he is quite nice in PVP because although his attacks may be dodged/popped, the damage they do when they do hit compensates for that.

1. *even harder facepalm* U angry? Take a chill pill, bro. BUT........... Yes, it DOES matter. You can't keep rely too much on the earthswim for preotection and keep trying to damage your opponent underground, your opponent's just gonna figure out your strategy. Besides, you only have a limited time to be underground anyway. If your opponents fast enough, they can still boost dodge the attacks. Tou can also get uptop a platform to avoid his attacks. Most importantly, he gets harder to control while swimming and your opponent can easily dodge you and your attacks. I don't care what people say about Sandhog, it doesn't make him overpowered in pvp. , getting really bored of talking about .

2. Speed isn't everything, even though it is important. Just because they are faster doesn't mean they have a much better shot of winning. is alot faster than Stump Smash and has great combos; but her attacks are alot weaker and she has lower health, plus she's shorter-ranged. Quote:

Nut Crafter does get a damage upgrade for the acorns on Nut Crafter. The Pollen Plume increases the damage

I could be wrong, but I don't remember it increasing damage on Nut Crafter. The description for that upgrade says that the acorns explode, growing plants on all nearby enemies. And nothing you said made me think otherwise, my point is that Stump Smash doesn't play as well on Wii as he does on the other versions. I should've put that it only appplies to Xbox in my comment.

3. I always managed to do it, I escape before the vine melons get a chance to explode. I still prfer Camo on Melon Master because of how weak he is in close-range on the other path. But I don't like either path too much for him, he's overall annoying to play with and I don't think he's as powerful in upper A tier.

Quote: LightSpyro13

Quote:

Quote: Bean Sprout

1. *facepalm* (Bolded so it can go through your brain) It does NOT matter if Terrafin doesn't do very much damage while underground because he cannot take any damage! It doesn't matter if it takes a while for Terrafin to win if he can ensure that he doesn't lose. And, most of the time, he does take care of them rather quickly, because even if you get a shot or two at him while he is performing the bellyflop, he will almost always get in more damage with the bellyflop than the shot or two would. And the difference between this and the Autoblaster is that DS CAN take damage while using it.

2. Nut Crafter does get a damage upgrade for the acorns on Nut Crafter. The Pollen Plume increases the damage. Anyway, what I am saying is that if one can outspeed S & B, it is unlikely that he can do any damage. However, Nut Crafter is capable of doing nice damage, and the acorns slow the opponent down a little so he can get a few hammer attacks in. The acorns do slow a little on the Wii, I believe. And I do know that there are diverse version differences. What did I say that made you think otherwise?

3.Weird, that hasn't happened to me. But, like I said, he is quite nice in PVP because although his attacks may be dodged/popped, the damage they do when they do hit compensates for that.

1. *even harder facepalm* U angry? Take a chill pill, bro. BUT........... Yes, it DOES matter. You can't keep rely too much on the earthswim for preotection and keep trying to damage your opponent underground, your opponent's just gonna figure out your strategy. Besides, you only have a limited time to be underground anyway. If your opponents fast enough, they can still boost dodge the attacks. Tou can also get uptop a platform to avoid his attacks. Most importantly, he gets harder to control while swimming and your opponent can easily dodge you and your attacks. I don't care what people say about Sandhog, it doesn't make him overpowered in pvp. , getting really bored of talking about . And if you don't care what people say about that path, why are you trying to argue your opinions and attempt to make people agree with you?

2. Speed isn't everything, even though it is important. Just because they are faster doesn't mean they have a much better shot of winning. is alot faster than Stump Smash and has great combos; but her attacks are alot weaker and she has lower health, plus she's shorter-ranged. Quote:

Nut Crafter does get a damage upgrade for the acorns on Nut Crafter. The Pollen Plume increases the damage

I could be wrong, but I don't remember it increasing damage on Nut Crafter. The description for that upgrade says that the acorns explode, growing plants on all nearby enemies. And nothing you said made me think otherwise, my point is that Stump Smash doesn't play as well on Wii as he does on the other versions. I should've put that it only appplies to Xbox in my comment.

3. I always managed to do it, I escape before the vine melons get a chance to explode. I still prfer Camo on Melon Master because of how weak he is in close-range on the other path. But I don't like either path too much for him, he's overall annoying to play with and I don't think he's as powerful in upper A tier.

1. No, I'm not angry. I am just a bit frustrated. And he can easily get back underground when he pops up, and he will only get one hit in, max. The bellyflop does hefty damage, and he can easily get back in the ground to do another flop. And, if it comes to it, he can ward off a foe with the punches. But most of the time Terrafin will be invincible , bellyflopping for damage. And the underground attack can go over most terrain, and if you miss the opponent, he can simply get back in the ground quite quickly. Lastly, you say he cannot rely on the underground for protection, but the underground attack is the safest, most defensive move in the whole game, and can be relyed on for protection.

2. Nothing you said made me think otherwise. Would that be because you are a tad stubborn? Seriously, EVERY argument we had on this thread resulted in you either ending the argument because you don't want to give in, but you haven't anything else to say, or your side of the argument just goes in a circle. If you want to take part in this project, just PLEASE be willing to at least accept, understand, and acknowledge what we have to say without arguing your case while not taking what we have to say at all. We all have been doing so, or at least trying to. If you were the one in charge of this like Egonaut is, I would be legitimatally surprised if you make ANY changes to the list, despite the amount of good arguments you have working against your argument. I don't want to be mean, I am just frustrated because I am relentlessly debating this with you, when you have admitted that no matter what I say, you will not back down at ALL.

Anyway, I specifically remember seeing a difference in the damage after I purchased that upgrade. And, in this game, speed is a MAJOR factor in victory. Since Stumpy's projectile is upgraded on S & B, any opponent that has a way to run away from the stumpfists and can damage Stumpy while at a safe distance from him, they will likely be victorious.

3. But VV Camo can usually do a load of damage with the vines before the foe can get very close. But some of the effectiveness depends on the arena, but, at least on the Wii, the vines are very effective at dealing quick damage.

Quote: Bean Sprout

Quote: LightSpyro13

Quote:

Quote: Bean Sprout

1. *facepalm* (Bolded so it can go through your brain) It does NOT matter if Terrafin doesn't do very much damage while underground because he cannot take any damage! It doesn't matter if it takes a while for Terrafin to win if he can ensure that he doesn't lose. And, most of the time, he does take care of them rather quickly, because even if you get a shot or two at him while he is performing the bellyflop, he will almost always get in more damage with the bellyflop than the shot or two would. And the difference between this and the Autoblaster is that DS CAN take damage while using it.

2. Nut Crafter does get a damage upgrade for the acorns on Nut Crafter. The Pollen Plume increases the damage. Anyway, what I am saying is that if one can outspeed S & B, it is unlikely that he can do any damage. However, Nut Crafter is capable of doing nice damage, and the acorns slow the opponent down a little so he can get a few hammer attacks in. The acorns do slow a little on the Wii, I believe. And I do know that there are diverse version differences. What did I say that made you think otherwise?

3.Weird, that hasn't happened to me. But, like I said, he is quite nice in PVP because although his attacks may be dodged/popped, the damage they do when they do hit compensates for that.

1. *even harder facepalm* U angry? Take a chill pill, bro. BUT........... Yes, it DOES matter. You can't keep rely too much on the earthswim for preotection and keep trying to damage your opponent underground, your opponent's just gonna figure out your strategy. Besides, you only have a limited time to be underground anyway. If your opponents fast enough, they can still boost dodge the attacks. Tou can also get uptop a platform to avoid his attacks. Most importantly, he gets harder to control while swimming and your opponent can easily dodge you and your attacks. I don't care what people say about Sandhog, it doesn't make him overpowered in pvp. , getting really bored of talking about . And if you don't care what people say about that path, why are you trying to argue your opinions and attempt to make people agree with you?

2. Speed isn't everything, even though it is important. Just because they are faster doesn't mean they have a much better shot of winning. is alot faster than Stump Smash and has great combos; but her attacks are alot weaker and she has lower health, plus she's shorter-ranged. Quote:

Nut Crafter does get a damage upgrade for the acorns on Nut Crafter. The Pollen Plume increases the damage

I could be wrong, but I don't remember it increasing damage on Nut Crafter. The description for that upgrade says that the acorns explode, growing plants on all nearby enemies. And nothing you said made me think otherwise, my point is that Stump Smash doesn't play as well on Wii as he does on the other versions. I should've put that it only appplies to Xbox in my comment.

3. I always managed to do it, I escape before the vine melons get a chance to explode. I still prfer Camo on Melon Master because of how weak he is in close-range on the other path. But I don't like either path too much for him, he's overall annoying to play with and I don't think he's as powerful in upper A tier.

1. No, I'm not angry. I am just a bit frustrated. And he can easily get back underground when he pops up, and he will only get one hit in, max. The bellyflop does hefty damage, and he can easily get back in the ground to do another flop. And, if it comes to it, he can ward off a foe with the punches. But most of the time Terrafin will be invincible , bellyflopping for damage. And the underground attack can go over most terrain, and if you miss the opponent, he can simply get back in the ground quite quickly. Lastly, you say he cannot rely on the underground for protection, but the underground attack is the safest, most defensive move in the whole game, and can be relyed on for protection.

2. Nothing you said made me think otherwise. Would that be because you are a tad stubborn? Seriously, EVERY argument we had on this thread resulted in you either ending the argument because you don't want to give in, but you haven't anything else to say, or your side of the argument just goes in a circle. If you want to take part in this project, just PLEASE be willing to at least accept, understand, and acknowledge what we have to say without arguing your case while not taking what we have to say at all. We all have been doing so, or at least trying to. If you were the one in charge of this like Egonaut is, I would be legitimatally surprised if you make ANY changes to the list, despite the amount of good arguments you have working against your argument. I don't want to be mean, I am just frustrated because I am relentlessly debating this with you, when you have admitted that no matter what I say, you will not back down at ALL.

Anyway, I specifically remember seeing a difference in the damage after I purchased that upgrade. And, in this game, speed is a MAJOR factor in victory. Since Stumpy's projectile is upgraded on S & B, any opponent that has a way to run away from the stumpfists and can damage Stumpy while at a safe distance from him, they will likely be victorious.

3. But VV Camo can usually do a load of damage with the vines before the foe can get very close. But some of the effectiveness depends on the arena, but, at least on the Wii, the vines are very effective at dealing quick damage.

1. I'm gonna bold this just so you can pay attention more easily, this time anyway:

Most important flaw about Sandhog: Master Earth Swimmer- Increased speed while burrowed

I told you before (seems like you weren't paying attention to this part, no offense), even though he's impervious to damage while underground and can still harm people, he is sooo hard to control, and it's annoying when trying to get around obstacles. He gets so crazy fast, it's almost impossible to hit your opponent; especially around walls, trying to climb on inclines, or going around steep turns (you can fall off and return to the surface). If there was an arena with no inclines, bounce pads, walls, or any other obstacle, THEN I'd say he's broken there in Pvp. Overall, is not overpowered on Sandhog in Pvp because of how hard he is to control and none of the upgrades are that good. I'd rather call him slightly well-balanced.

2. If you're just "fustrated" and not angry, then why would you put an "!" at the end of your sentence and bolding it as a bonus? Is it to make it look your shouting? Sorry, but I'm not allowed to believe you on that. And while I can be stubborn at times, you seemed to lack attention for some stuff I've been saying or misunderstanding my point (like Sandhog having poor controls, I think I've said that like twice now and you still seem to oblivious to that), and I disagree with alot with alot of your points such as Sheep Burner Spyro being average and agreeing with Nibeleit (or whatever her name was) on that, and the Medea Griffin thing. I have very different point of views than alot of people. For instance, I think is one of the worst Skylanders out there, even though he's probably the most popular. He sucks, I don't care what people say about him. His gameplay is ridiculous, he's not as a strong as everyone says, and his Heroic Challenge was plain boring (it was easy though). I just can't agree with alot your points, Speed is important in this game in Story mode, but not as much in Battle mode considering how the space is small and there are teleporters & bounce pads. Quote:

If you were the one in charge of this like Egonaut is, I would be legitimatally surprised if you make ANY changes to the list, despite the amount of good arguments you have working against your argument

Also, being a good argument is not fact, it's an opinion. So that part is totally invalid.

Glad to see this thread still active during my Hiatus. Should we make a new thread for Giants?

^ That's what I was wondering, I was actually gonna post a thread for it the other day.