darkSpyro

ok.... you may hate me but I think undead defender chop chop should be in lower B at least considering he can beat stealth elf, drobot, flameslinger ( marksman ), possibly ignitor blademaster and terrafin brawler, you defend while moving towards them and let the shield do the rest. 75+stun and then back at it.

I really, really doubt any experienced player using SE and Drobot will lose to Undead Defender Chop chop.

As much as I love Chop Chop (who NEEDS to be moved up) only a truly stunning user of Undead Defender on a good day would beat an even semi-experienced Drobot or Stealth user.
Undead Defender is not a huge offensive threat- he really only succeeds against C-Tier for their damage being so low to successfully set off the Shield, which higher-Tier foes can't because they just deal such huge damage they make him drop it.
Vampiric Warrior under the same conditions may have a chance, but Undead Defender? No. He DOES need to go to Lower B(along with Vampiric Warrior to lowest Upper , but he's certainly not that good.

Now...

The Case For

Wrecking Ball should be an Average or Good character. Simple as that.

Now, I know I'M the one who sort of "started" all the Wrecking Ball hate, but I've tested him against more stuff now and I think he has a chance. Ultimate Spinner of course, Total Tongue is still utterly useless.

What's the strategy? It's easy, just spam the Forcefield... Duh. It if hits, it does 61 damage. If it doesn't, it does 20 damage. Yeah, 20 damage... Not a lot.

So how about ending the Forcefield with Z to unleash a wider-range Burp that does 40 damage when it hits? And the burp takes a while to charge, so you can just stay, safely, invincibly in the Forcefield. This makes it so that as you unleash it, your opponent will take a big hit, and be unable to hit you. Unless they run away in which way you chase them with the Forcefield and repeat. And it deletes the need to aim your attack which I honestly thought was his problem.

Of course, he does have counters. Notably, anything fast enough to interrupt his casting of the Forcefield, anything really bulky may be able to because he's slow to escape from them, and really tight Arenas also stop him. Slam Bam ticks character needs to counter him and Cube Dungeon is a nightmare for him.

But overall, I just decided to replay him because he gets an awesome disco ball in Giants, and I'm honestly surprised. He does suck against some characters, but also obliterates some. He definetly needs to be reviewed. I suggest Upper B or Lower A.

Yea, I agree with that.
Also, Ultimate Spinner gets the forcefield blast. It isn't a reliable way of dealing damage, but it stops the forcefield ball if it goes off-course, which can be handy.

My opinions.

Broken Tier (aka overpowered): (Brawler), , (Fear Eater), :cy: (Shadowdancer), (Granite Dragon), (Grand Master Boomerang), (Elementalist)

High Tier: (Blitz Spyro only), (Pook Blade Saint) (Telsa Dragon), (volcanor) (Wind Master), (Water Weaver), (Sandhog), (Pulver Dragon), (Nut Crafter),

Mid Tier: (Crystaleer only), (Golden Money Bags only), (Blizzard Brawler), , (Siren Griffin), (melon master), (Pyromancer), , (Tempest Dragon), (Eye of the Storm), (Skull Master), (Vampiric Warrior)

Low Tier:, (Medea Griffin), (Prismancer) :dr: (Earthen Avenger), :cy: (Nether Welder), (Marksman), (Sea Serpent Slime), (Harpooner), (vine virtuso)

Sad Tier: (Ultimate Rainbower), (Sheep Burner Spyro), (Glacier Yeti), , (Forest Ninja), (Magmator), (Golden Frenzy), (Undead Defender)


I am not finished, the rest will be coming soon. Let me know what you think!

Could you please justify a bit on the ones that differ from the current list? I mean, look at Tesla Dragon. It'll take some FANTASTIC reasoning to persuade me that he should be in the A tier.

Why don't we set them up like this?
- - -
Ubers - Way to strong and banned.
OverUsed - Used most.
UnderUsed - Used less.
RarelyUsed - Skylander barely used.
NeverUsed - Skylander and upgrade path not being used at all.

You mean like Pokemon?
The one we have is basically the Pokemon one before RU came along.

YES. EXACTLY LIKE POKEMON.

Well the Lightning is easily spammable, it's fast like an Optic Blast (it's ability of Cyclops from Marvel's X-Men), it does lots damage. The sea slime is good for when you're trying to retreat from your opponent, it won't be easy for them to catch up to you because they slow down in the slime. I use as a Keepaway character in pvp, that is my secret to victory.

Alot of people hate Zap because of his weak attacks and low armor, my only complaints are his low health and armor. He'd be the 3rd best SKylander if he had more health.

Yes, but in the large pool of projectile characters, Zap comes out as one of the worst. The lightning is just like many other attacks that are more powerful than it, making it a little useless and generic.
Slime Serpent, on the other hand, is unique and the damaging trap is useful. The thing with Tesla is that you will be relying on strategy with the slimes more than the lightning, making upgrading the lightning useless.
Zap is a character that can only be great if you use him all of the time, and since this list judges how good characters are if the player has the same amount of skill and practice with each character, Tesla is in its proper place.

ok well, my friend doesn't own the game but he can really use stealth elf. The fight sorta went like this, it was in necropolis I think so there weren't really any usable traps ( the cannon doesn't count ) and pretty much he ended up just pummeling my shield and getting nailed with the demon projection ( thats what I call the purple stuff ) he took a solid 146 damage ( + elemental ), and then started using the stealth, I just stood still and waited for him to come back, when he did I used the powered shield bash to stun him and then hit him a couple of times with my sword, rinse and repeat. Game Over stealth elf!

Also why does everyone think wind master warnado is bad at pvp? has anyone ever gotten hit by one of those tornados?

I think enough people have shown support for Chop Chop for me to move him.
I'll re-adjust his position accordingly if any new specifics come up about him.

• Chop Chop / Undead Defender moved to Lower B.
  
• Chop Chop / Vampiric Warrior moved to Upper B.
  

Also,


• Wrecking Ball / Ultimate Spinner moved to Upper B, on recommendation from Nibelilt and Bean Sprout. May move later should any new specifics arise.

I've spent alot of time with Zap on Telsa Dragon and he was quite powerful in pvp for me, Sea Slime Serpent was useless in battle mode, what's more slime & automatic electrocution going to do for me? I spent more time with him than any of my other skylanders (except & , but I only spent time with because he was extremely terrible when I first got him).

A single lightning bolt is weak, but if you keep on spamming it, it's monstrous (like 's eye lasers). I also use the electric wave when possible, but I shoot it, not ride it. Zap can be great if you know how to use him, just like Prism Break.

Quote: LightSpyro13

I've spent alot of time with Zap on Telsa Dragon and he was quite powerful in pvp for me, Sea Slime Serpent was useless in battle mode, what's more slime & automatic electrocution going to do for me? I spent more time with him than any of my other skylanders (except & , but I only spent time with because he was extremely terrible when I first got him).

A single lightning bolt is weak, but if you keep on spamming it, it's monstrous (like 's eye lasers). I also use the electric wave when possible, but I shoot it, not ride it. Zap can be great if you know how to use him, just like Prism Break.

Slime Serpent is the superior uprgade path for Zap because of the way he can use all the electrified slime at his disposal to play keep-away with some hit-and-run tactics thrown in, harassing opponents with a steady trickle of damage until defeat. This tactic can be used to score some surprising wins against some high-tier characters, particularly the melee-dependant ones, though it's not without it's weaknesses and counters of course.

This tactic is much trickier with Tesla Dragon to the point of being more or less unviable. Having to manually electrify the slime can leave enough of an opening for the opponent to close in on Zap. Zap's ranged attacks, when upgraded, are still farily weak compared to most of other ranged attackers, so you might as well invest his upgrades into the slime.

whoa whoa whoa warnado wind master is bad? how? are you saying that it is as weak as total tongue wreacking ball seriously? they hit 40's and your opponent is useless while it is hitting them, how is this bad?

Quote: EgoNaut

Quote: LightSpyro13

I've spent alot of time with Zap on Telsa Dragon and he was quite powerful in pvp for me, Sea Slime Serpent was useless in battle mode, what's more slime & automatic electrocution going to do for me? I spent more time with him than any of my other skylanders (except & , but I only spent time with because he was extremely terrible when I first got him).

A single lightning bolt is weak, but if you keep on spamming it, it's monstrous (like 's eye lasers). I also use the electric wave when possible, but I shoot it, not ride it. Zap can be great if you know how to use him, just like Prism Break.

Slime Serpent is the superior uprgade path for Zap because of the way he can use all the electrified slime at his disposal to play keep-away with some hit-and-run tactics thrown in, harassing opponents with a steady trickle of damage until defeat. This tactic can be used to score some surprising wins against some high-tier characters, particularly the melee-dependant ones, though it's not without it's weaknesses and counters of course.


This tactic is much trickier with Tesla Dragon to the point of being more or less unviable. Having to manually electrify the slime can leave enough of an opening for the opponent to close in on Zap. Zap's ranged attacks, when upgraded, are still farily weak compared to most of other ranged attackers, so you might as well invest his upgrades into the slime.

I found it useless in battle mode. It doesn't take that long to manually electrify the slime, I do it quick. Besides, they don't seem to slow down when it's automatically electrified. But whatever, I'd rather forget about right now and talk about one of my other tier choices like .

I would say that Sonic Boom should be ranked higher than low and mid. On Medea griffon, you can score hard hits by using the four eggs as grenades, and that roar does nice damage.

Quote: Bean Sprout

I would say that Sonic Boom should be ranked higher than low and mid. On Medea griffon, you can score hard hits by using the four eggs as grenades, and that roar does nice damage.

Same. With that skill tree she is unstoppable. Same with drobot, his lasers are so cheap!

I found the Medea Griffin path to be terrible in battle mode. Sure launching all the eggs at once does alot of damage, but as slow rate of fire and it isn't spammable, plus the babies can still get killed and are totally useless. I prefer Siren Griffin; he ultimate roar doesn't take too long to charge or slow her down (but her handling is harder to control though), plus the egg shockwave is good for pusing back your opponent (even though it does petty little damage).

But I don't find either of 's paths totally amazing, she is a little overrated in my opinion and more of a story mode character than a battler. is so superior to her in pvp, especially on Wind Master.

Just added Stump Smash and Voodood in my tier list on one of their paths, haven't tried their other paths yet though. I also edited a little.

The egg shockwave is on Medea Griffon. You don't want to rely on the babies at all; they are merely an added bonus. You mainly want to use the egg grenades and the scream, which doesn't get a damage boost in Siren Griffon. And you can fly around, hit an opponent with the eggs and the scream, fly away, turn around, and repeat. She is pretty fast while flying.

And Wind Master is good in the C tier. You are relying on one attack for victory, and that attack isn't all that poweful. Although one is idle while in the tornado, I can usually get in more damage than the tornado does in between each tornado fired when fighting wind master.

Wrong, the Egg Shockwave is on Siren Griffin, not Medea Griffin.

Medea Griffin only gets

1. All eggs are launched at once and knock back enemies.

2. Four babies active at once.

3. Babies hatch fully grown and attack faster.

I still think Siren Griffin is better because of the shockwave and More Boom, but 's tornados are pretty useful and should be at least a bit higher ranked than Tier C (but Camo should be in Tier C or D, he's overrated in my opinion). He's got good armor and alot of health too, his shell attack is good for retreating, I beat alot of my other skylanders with .

Ahh, I thought you were talking about the knockback with the eggs, which serves around the same purpose. And the roar does the same amount of damage on Medea, so the only advantage is the shockwave, but the eggs on Medea already knock the foe back.

Eye of the Storm Warnado is a great character due to his versatility, but Wind master is a one-trick pony whose trick is outclassed by many.

//forum.darkspyro.net/spyro/viewposts.php?topic=60463

If anyone has any characters they would like to see clarified specifically, please tell me.

And also, thanks for moving up Chop Chop. I think everyone is fine with that.

Quote: Nibelilt

//forum.darkspyro.net/spyro/viewposts.php?topic=60463

That is such an awesome little thread that I'm going to put a link to it in the first post.

Thanks Egonaut and Nibelilt for that. The first post in Nibelilt's thread means the most to me. I mean, Drill Sergeant is my best character. Hwoever, I realize that most people haven't played him as often as I have, so I think he is okay where he is.

Wind Master is better than Eye of the Storm .

The shell upgrade doesn't benefit much, even though it makes him a bit more versitile. The Turtle Slam doesn't usually do maximum damage because you have to be really close to your opponent and it takes time to perform. The mini warnados were the only things saving me in pvp.

Eye of the storm's versatility is what makes it nice. Come to think of it, Warnado's two paths represent two great points.

Wind Master has really good damage numbers. I mean, 40 damage a pop? That sounds impressive right? Well, although the numbers are high, the move has big problems. I mean, it is quite slow, it is more difficult to aim than most other projectiles, and, on Wind Master, those tornadoes are the only way of dealing real damage, which means that anything that can work around the tornadoes can stop Wind Master in a heartbeat.

However, Eye of the storm is the opposite. 30 doesn't really sound that great. But, EotS is MUCH more versatile. If you use all of his moves, he can fight off many different types of Skylanders. The Turtle Slam may only do 30, but is scatters the Mini-Warnadoes around. About two or three of these usually hit on the Turtle Slam, so the damage increases to 60 or 75, as each Warnado does 15, I believe. The spinning does decent damage, is quick, and is good for manueverability. Two spins do more damage than a WM tornado, and I can pull of two spins usually before a Wind master can properly aim and fire a Tornado.

Don't forget as you do the turtle slam you can unleash a tornado. So essentially, you can just keep trapping and attacking your opponent. Wind Master is not a bad path other than the fact that the tornado attack is the only worthwhile thing on it- and it's not worth the sacrifice nor good enough to be placed higher.

Yes. I have done multiple tests against Wind Master, (My Skylanders PVP friend's Warnado is Wind Master) and nearly if not all of the time I was able to get in more than 40 damage in between getting hit by a tornado.

I mean, Projectilers can shoot him from a safe distance while he readies the Tornado and they can dodge it sometimes (depending on the map), and Meleeists can all get in more than 40 between Tornado impacts. (Even Chop Chop can easily).

Just spend time with Wind Master and it'll be easy to use. I did and I got used to the aim, which is also how I mastered & , some people dislike them because they aren't using them properly (but I'm still having trouble getting used to ). The longer you train with him, the better he gets.

The Turtle Slam spreading Mini Warnaod is kinda cool, but also kinda useless. Unless there's a great big group of enemies, I've found little use for sending them away with Turtle Slam. I prefer to be right by my enemy before slamming, the mini warnados only do 15 damage with turtle slam and are only good for multiple enemies. If they were able to lock on to your opponent in battle mode, it would be alot more helpful.

Did you even read Nibelilt's topic on tiering? If you haven't, you really should.
First of all, this is for the core ability of the skylanders, not how good they are if you master them. You are saying you want Skylanders to move up because you mastered them, which is the opposite of what we are looking for. I have mastered Drill Sergeant, but I know that not everyone has had the practice I have had with him, so I leave him be. Again, this topic is for the core ability of Skylanders and how they do if the player has an equal amount of experience with every character.
Please read the guidelines for tiering before you make your argument. :/

Quote:

1. "When you use them right X character can be really powerful."
This has been disclosed in the first post- the PVP tier is about what is OBJECTIVELY powerful. When you use him right, Flameslinger could be as potent as an S-Tier character, but he is not inherently powerful. Assuming new players of the two, do you really think that a Warnado would stand a chance against a Stealth Elf? While every character has a chance in the right hands, in the right Arena, or with the right luck, the list is purely designed for placing characters simply by how easy or difficult they are to abuse or use.

Quote:

Warnado(Wind Master): Wind Master is placed as low as he is for being incredibly one-sided to use and not very good at it. He has trouble with almost anything so most victories with him will be flukes. His tornado aiming is interruptible and attacks slowly, he has no reliable option for escape, and he fails at using anything other than the attack he was named after. Against equally skillful players, every ranged character defeats him like a wet paper towel and most Meleeists are easily able to close in on him without getting hurt at all.

Cough! Hack! Wheeze!

Genius, I wasn't saying this was about skill, I'm well aware this is about strength.

Tiers are really important, but skill does matter. You can't really know the full strength of a character without having lots of exprerience with him/her (unless you look at official tier lists), the tier won't work for you without skill or experience. An example is Phoenix in Marvel vs Capcom 3 & Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3, she is a top tier for both games. In spite of this, not alot of people use her because of her extremely low health and not everyone uses her right. Deadpool on the other is widely used in online matches and is one of the more commonly used characters in the game because he's pretty easy to master and people find him quite strong, even though he's been place in the mid to low tiers. Skill is more important than tiers because they won't do much for you without skill (they are still very important though).

See what I mean now? Next time, think a through before you criticize (no offense).

And as has been pointed out numerous times:
Quote:

the list is purely designed for placing characters simply by how easy or difficult they are to abuse or use.

Quote: LightSpyro13

Genius, I wasn't saying this was about skill, I'm well aware this is about strength.

Tiers are really important, but skill does matter. You can't really know the full strength of a character without having lots of exprerience with him/her (unless you look at official tier lists), the tier won't work for you without skill or experience. An example is Phoenix in Marvel vs Capcom 3 & Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3, she is a top tier for both games. In spite of this, not alot of people use her because of her extremely low health and not everyone uses her right. Deadpool on the other is widely used in online matches and is one of the more commonly used characters in the game because he's pretty easy to master and people find him quite strong, even though he's been place in the mid to low tiers. Skill is more important than tiers because they won't do much for you without skill (they are still very important though).

See what I mean now? Next time, think a through before you criticize (no offense).

But this tier list is for how easily Skylanders are to abuse. I believe that any skylander could beat any other skylander if the player had the maximum amount of skill with him, making a skill list worthless. You are arguing tiers based off of your skill, when it has been clearly stated that this is about how easily someone could use and win with a skylander. If we based it purely off of one players skill, nearly everyone would disagree on it because their skill with Skylanders is different than yours.
Your last two arguments have clearly broken the rules for tiering. We aren't going to listen to you if you don't follow the guidelines.

^ ^ ^

I am going to quote this in the OP of the Clarification topic.

Thank you, Obi Wan Nibelilt. Your our only hope.

May the tiers be wiiiiiith you!
Quote: Bean Sprout

I would say that Sonic Boom should be ranked higher than low and mid. On Medea griffon, you can score hard hits by using the four eggs as grenades, and that roar does nice damage.

Okay, I agree with this... And call me crazy, but she's so powerful, I actually think she should be in the S-Tier.
The Eggs hit hard, and go far, while being able to hit close enough. They do 40 damage each, and it's very common for two to hit one opponent, occasionally even three.
Coupled with the 39 a hit Scream... I think we have a winner.
Sonic Boom is just cheap. And I don't know how more people don't realize it.

Yea, she is powerful. I don't know if I would go as far as S-tier, but she is definitely powerful.

Quote: Bean Sprout

Quote: LightSpyro13

Genius, I wasn't saying this was about skill, I'm well aware this is about strength.

Tiers are really important, but skill does matter. You can't really know the full strength of a character without having lots of exprerience with him/her (unless you look at official tier lists), the tier won't work for you without skill or experience. An example is Phoenix in Marvel vs Capcom 3 & Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3, she is a top tier for both games. In spite of this, not alot of people use her because of her extremely low health and not everyone uses her right. Deadpool on the other is widely used in online matches and is one of the more commonly used characters in the game because he's pretty easy to master and people find him quite strong, even though he's been place in the mid to low tiers. Skill is more important than tiers because they won't do much for you without skill (they are still very important though).

See what I mean now? Next time, think a through before you criticize (no offense).

But this tier list is for how easily Skylanders are to abuse. I believe that any skylander could beat any other skylander if the player had the maximum amount of skill with him, making a skill list worthless. You are arguing tiers based off of your skill, when it has been clearly stated that this is about how easily someone could use and win with a skylander. If we based it purely off of one players skill, nearly everyone would disagree on it because their skill with Skylanders is different than yours.
Your last two arguments have clearly broken the rules for tiering. We aren't going to listen to you if you don't follow the guidelines.

You obviously misunderstood my point, again. But whatever, end of discussion.

Golden Frenzy Trigger Happy is plagued with the lowest HP in the game: a mere 400 points of endurance. Golden Money Bags makes up for the shortcomings of this with his pure power, which to an extent makes him usable. However, Golden Frenzy gets a very meager damage upgrades on the bullets, the bouncing isn't very useful and the Golden Yamoto Blast is very rarely viable. Trigger Happy's main problem is his truly awful HP coupled with his lack of a dash move, which allows many characters which normally wouldn't to beat him easily. To use effectively, you need a lot of skill with him, or get a good arena to use.

Tesla Zap however, is another case. Am I the only one here who prefers this path? The slime isn't as difficult to set up as people say, the bouncing of the lightning is actually useful because his projectiles are a good size and have fair damage, and my god, the wave, with the increased damage and size, actually becomes viable. He's definetly not Drobot, or anything, maybe not even Spyro level, but he needs a revision. I think Lower B is a good choice since that tier currently seems useless, and yet it fits him.

Neither are A-Tier, or S-Tier, though. If you ask me GFTH is middling B at best while Tesla Zap is very high B in the right hands.

Edit: Also, Golden Money Bags needs to be moved to Lower B, I could swear he was there, but at least on the Wii list, he is not.

Well said, Nibelilt.

But the good thing about Slime Serpent is that the slimes are unique. They are a good way of trapping someone and damaging them. Tesla upgrades a projectile that is not unique, and is weaker than most projectiles. In my experience, people who use Tesla use the slimes more than the lightning anyway.

Well, actually, I find the Slimes to be a lesser Flameslinger. SS doesn't need to be moved down, for sure, but Tesla certainly isn't C-Tier, IMO! He is usable.
And if you use the Volts so much- you are using him wrong! Use the Waves when you can, they knock back, they hit multiple times, and each hit is 27 damage. In fact, I only use the Volts for when I need to hit an opponent around the corner or I need something to get one hit in faster.
The Slimes are just a dashing option basically. Something people tend to miss is that you can also electrify them with the Waves down Tesla, which is useful if you DO need them, you can essentially do a double run, dash foward with the slime, then "continue" AND electrify by holding onto a wave.

He's one of those characters that you can make really powerful when you use him right which, actually, I think is what separates C-Tier from Lower B: The C-Tier is nearly unusable, often than not even with very skilled players, while Lower B is for the character that is objectively less than mediocre, but can be abused at times.

I wouldn't be against moving him to Lower B, but not above that. It is just the fact that so many other Projectilers are much better than Tesla, while SS has, to an extent, a (relatively) unique attack that can trump his opponents.

You have a case for Tesla Dragon to be moved, so I'll be conservative for now and have him in Lower B for the moment, unless enough people think he should be in Upper B later on.

• Zap / Tesla Dragon moved to Lower B tier.
  

Oh, no. He's definetly not Upper B, he's strictly Lower B. I mean, I think generally the C Tier also have bad stats coupled with their moves with the exception of Warnado, but Zap's Crit rate is pretty good to abuse, he has fair HP and he's fairly fast. But thanks for moving him either way. He's not powerful enough to be Upper B, but he's sort of stuck in limbo, I think.

While I was at it, I moved Trigger Happy / Golden Money Bags to Lower B is well. I just thought I should do something to differentiate it from Golden Frenzy.