darkSpyro

Okay, on another topic, I got into a conversation about what Spyro would od if Cynder tried to sacrifice herself to save Spyro's parents, to which he person replied he would save Cynder because he knew her well and becasue they had alot in common and got along really well, whereas he never knew his parents.

Putting aside the whole Cynder sacrificing herself for Spyro's parents idea, can someone please tell me what Spyro and Cynder have in common? We talked about it on that topic, but it rapidly turned into something else and i don't want to restart it on the same topic; it's already under two or more pages.

Anyway, the person I spoke to said they were similar for the following reasons:

Both can fight.
Both had their lives changed by Malefor.
Both never saw their parents.
Both love each other.
Both were controlled by darkness at some point.
Both can be cocky.

To which I responded:

Loads of characters in LOS can fight, all had their lives changed by Malefor in some way, plenty of people on their planet are orphans I'm sure, the way they were controlled was way different (Cynder was corrupt for I think over ten years! Spyro has so far suffered two attacks of short lived darkness), and plenty of people can be brave and confident.
And loving each other is a bad thing to list, because there is not enough which is similar between them to warrant love.

So, without fighting about pairings and how much you like/dislike them, can someone please simply tell me what Spyro and Cynder have in common?

Here's what I think:

Spyro is a pretty quiet guy, and Cynder used to be in TEN. However, Spyro is quiet by nature and Cynder was that way presumably because she was guilty and also changed dramatically from her quiet self in DotD.
They both wish to save the world, but for different reasons. Spyro does so because it is his destiny and he feels it’s just the right thing to do. Cynder does so because she has something to atone for, though we could assume that she’d still do it even if she were innocent. Though that could be considered an acceptable similarity, it’s not one which constitutes love, because from what I could tell every descent person in LOS who was able wished to do their part to save the world.

So, without fighting about the pairing, please inform me of the similarities between Spyro and Cynder you see.

I guess you're right about the first statement. Almost all TLoS characters can fight.

In my opinion, I think Spyro and Cynder's lives were changed more so than other characters' lives by Malefor. Spyro's life was completely changed because of Malefor. If it wasn't for Malefor, Spyro would have probably never met Sparx, nor his adoptive parents Nina and Ash. He would be living with his real parents at the Dragon Temple.
As for Cynder, she would have met her real parents as well, and would be an ordinary Dragoness like any other dragoness. There really would be no story to tell. So what I'm saying I guess, is that both have never met their parents because of Malefor. I guess that's kind of true for any Dragon Egg during the raid, but neither those eggs nor their parents survived. Oh, and Spyro and Cynder were the only Dragons of that generation that survived the raid, as far as we know.
That's all I have to say for right now. I can't think too straight right now to add anymore

Honestly, they have nothing in common besides being dragons and having once shared temple floorspace as eggs.

Controlled by darkness? Not even. Spyro has no idea what this is really like, while Cynder is intimately familiar with it (and probably thinks it's the right life choice since she was raised with it from birth). On the flip side, Cynder has no notion of what it's like for Spyro being a purple dragon.

Both being quiet? Since when was LoSpyro a quiet person? He's boisterous, chipper, chatty, and cheerful up until the end of TEN when he decides to be super emo. By contrast, Cynder is reserved, thinks before she speaks or acts, and doesn't know anything about being a youngster.

Parents? They both had parents, it's just the games ignore them. Spyro love his adopted dragonfly parents Flash and Nina. It's not impossible that Gaul was a father to Cynder and she bears some love for him (we never see her actively hate the guy, just do what she can to get away from him in a desperate situation).

Granted, I am speaking mostly from the personalities of them we got in ANB and TEN, because in DotD their personalities were completely re-written.

Even so, they still have little/nothing in common in DotD. Both can fight, but their fighting strategies are massively different, with Cynder's being calculated and violent, and Spyro's being more magic-based and not nearly as effective. Cynder also knows a lot more about magic and doesn't hesitate to snipe at Spyro for his own ignorance. On his end, Spyro brushes off Cynder's emotionally scarring past when it's brought up, choosing to just take her word for it when she's says she's fine. And Cynder does what she would do as a soldier raised to darkness when Spyro is in severe mourning: she tells him to man up and get over it right now. Frankly, these are not the seeds of a good relationship.

As for the love aspect, we don't know if they actually love each other. Cynder gave him a hug when he was hurting and left when she thought she would hurt him and the other Guardians. Spyro ran off to find her when she went away and...that's pretty much it. These are things any friend would do for another friend. Cynder herself might be confused, thus prompting her to say "I love you" in a moment of crisis, but it's almost a given that Spyro didn't hear that and that he doesn't share those feelings (he certainly hasn't given her any signs that he cares for her any more or less than his other friends). Even the lyrics of "Guide You Home" show that Cynder is interested in him (you can't blame her; she's never had a friend before) but he is speaking of his love for the whole of the world. Give her some time to think about it and Cynder will probably realize she didn't mean what she said because, in all truth, she literally doesn't know what "love" is thanks to her upbringing.

So, yeah. They have nothing in common short of being dragons.

^This!


Thanks for typing that Razz I would never have had the patiences(spelled it wrong) enough to type it. I agree 100%!xD

'Twas my pleasure. I don't mind Spyro and Cynder being friends or siblings or, at least in ANB/TEN, having the seeds sown for potential relationships way down the line (like, when they're actually adults instead of preteens). The games give us enough info to suggest that they are friends, but nothing more. And they're the sort of friends who are friendly because they're so different.

Ahh, again I agree. I really wish they did some of these things instead of what they did. some examples you give are pretty awesome and in my opinion would have made Tlos a lot better, I think so anyway. :P

I take solace in knowing that, according to the laws of relationships, if they did hook up at the end of DotD it would be a very short-lived relationship. I mean, seriously, how many middle school sweethearts do you hear of? Sometimes older teens who fall in love make it in the long run (but it's incredibly rare and just as likely to be the result of a shotgun wedding as anything else), but preteens and young kids do not maintain relationships like this in the long term. They try them on as an experiment and use them as a way to grow into what they like as adults.

From a psychological standpoint, again, Spyro and Cynder probably won't be a long standing relationship regardless unless they both like to bicker. A lot. Cynder is somewhat snippy and stand offish, while Spyro is accustomed to love coming easily to him from supportive relatives. He's also the sort who needs someone to guide him, so it's not impossible that, in that respect, Cynder could work for him. But it's just as likely that he's going to be wounded far too often by her edges and she will want someone who is on her intellectual and possibly physical level.

Quote: Razz

As for the love aspect, we don't know if they actually love each other. Cynder gave him a hug when he was hurting and left when she thought she would hurt him and the other Guardians. Spyro ran off to find her when she went away and...that's pretty much it. These are things any friend would do for another friend. Cynder herself might be confused, thus prompting her to say "I love you" in a moment of crisis, but it's almost a given that Spyro didn't hear that and that he doesn't share those feelings (he certainly hasn't given her any signs that he cares for her any more or less than his other friends). Even the lyrics of "Guide You Home" show that Cynder is interested in him (you can't blame her; she's never had a friend before) but he is speaking of his love for the whole of the world. Give her some time to think about it and Cynder will probably realize she didn't mean what she said because, in all truth, she literally doesn't know what "love" is thanks to her upbringing.

So, yeah. They have nothing in common short of being dragons.

I think it's because Spyro said, "You left me nothing to fight for" to Cynder, which makes me want to facepalm every time I hear that line. >.<

Yeah, that little line of his probably didn't do her any favors. I honestly thought she was just confused by him from the start and that's what prompted her to say that. I mean, he kills her after fighting against her for at least a few days, but then he saves her life. When she is delivered to her enemies, he treats her with kindness instead of the hate she was probably expecting. He comes to help her when she is dragged away to what she assumes is her inevitable fate (captured by apes), and then saves her life in the cave in. And then she watches him in action and presumably sees how nice he is to everyone and how hard he fights. Not knowing how to process any of this (which is a kind of lifestyle completely alien to her), she can't help but guess that this is love, but she really doesn't know.

But Razz, you're missing the point that she is the only female dragon in the game, and the only dragon close to his age. Therefore, no matter how bleak the future of their relationship is, it will be forced to work out in the end.

[/sarcasm]

I love it when people use that argument seriously because it's always clear they have no idea what sort of horrendous, miserable fate they're dooming Cynder to.

By that logic, she's either going to be like a queen bee (who only mates once, her mate immediately dies afterwards, and she spends the rest of her life literally doing nothing but laying eggs), or she's going to have to breed and produce offspring with every single male dragon she sees for the rest of her life. With the first option, at least she'll have servants to dote on her until she dies, but the second one is just grim. Really, the producer/writers should have thought this out a bit more.

Hey, I'm a Spyro/Elora shipper, I'm fully aware of the miserable fate I'm condemning them to when I say they must mate in order to survive. Sadism is not an alien thought to me. >:}

Wait, I'm confused. Are you talking about Spyro and Elora whose fates would be miserable because of their relationship or Cynder's? Given the nature of fauns in mythology, I don't think it would bother Elora, but that's just me.

If you're speaking of being sadistic towards Cynder, I want in on this.

The latter, I'm pretty sure the original Spyro is not limited to one female dragoness.

I'm still not convinced there are any adult female dragons in the iSpyro world (I always worked from the assumption that they grew into gender neutral adults; the full explanation is a bit windy, though). But, yeah, original Spyro was still a pimp. All the fauns in Fracture Hills loved him, the fairies thought he was hot stuff (and apparently vice versa), and I seem to recall him being hit on by a few other ladies in the first three games.

Honestly, sometimes I feel bad for LoSpyro. I kind of hope Cynder is like a queen bee, just for his sake. He can go out on a high note and not have to face the reality of having to share the only girl he's ever met with someone. (Though, to be honest, I was always confused by LoSpyro's interest in Cynder. He was raised by dragonflies, ergo, shouldn't he be attracted to them or at least have to struggle and come to terms with being attracted to something that's outside his norm? Then again, Sparx showed more interest in Cynder than Spyro did, which leads me to think that Sparx might be something of a deviant. )

Quote: Razz

(I always worked from the assumption that they grew into gender neutral adults; the full explanation is a bit windy, though).

Magnus.


Well, okay, that and the fact all the adult dragons ever save for Nanny, Kaitlin and Cho Lei were male. A hundred males and three females? Kind of awkward.

I suppose I should also clarify that I think of the Insomniac series and AHT/SL as existing in different universes. The Insomniac games are the ones where the dragons grow up gender neutral (and Word of God says that eggs are delivered by fairies, so it's no problem).

AHT obviously has adult female dragons (and flamboyantly gay male dragons, too ). But, on the whole, we actually didn't see many adult dragons period in those games. There were the four elders, Red and Nanny in AHT and that was kind of it. SL at least implies that there are a lot more female dragons than we see (as does AHT, what withe Ember being around and nobody being amazed that she exists).

But LoS... Not only are there at least six full grown dragons around, but every single other species in the games (except dragonflies) is entirely male. That's just nasty to do to Cynder (and has fueled no end to raunchy art; heck, even I used it as the basis for a nasty story that I never finished, making the excess of testosterone one of the biggest heralds of the death of the world a key plot point...okay, it was pretty much the only plot point, but it's Cynder; what else are you supposed to write about her? ).

I agree with EVERYTHING Razz said! I'd love to see that tory Razz.

Also, it's a BIIIG world! There must me more young dragons out there somewhere! Seriously, am I the only one who thinks it's unlikely that those few eggs seen in the temple were the only dragons of that generation?

And of course, I too see the hideousness of there being one female dragon. Even if Spyro is the only male to mate with, the future will still be horiffic because Spyro and Cynder can only have one family of eggs, right? Even if they have a batch, wait, and breed again, ALL the eggs will be related. Therefore, future generations of dragons will be A) forced to inbreed, yeilding a generation of mentally/physically handicapped children, or resist any and all urges, desires, passions, and temptations they may have, and NEVER breed, thus ending the dragon species. The same fate awaits if Cynder lays all the eggs Queen Bee style too.
Holy cow Malefor! That was one hell of a blow you dealt, destroying all the eggs!

Heh, given that it's a very nasty story, I somehow don't think you would want to read it. And I'm not going to be writing it, ever, anyway (unless someone so badly wants their Cynder smut that they pay me to do it). But the gist of the plot was that Cynder was really one of several female spirits of the world who helped a constant cycle of destruction and rebirth go on. Cynder's race (the dragons) had destroyed the world this time, so it was her responsibility to be incarnated in mortal form and literally be the mother of all that would come to be in the new world to be.

Before DotD destroyed every possible logic for this theory, I had an idea that the LoS dragons came in different races (like the Insomniac dragons), of which the Guardians were one. The Guardians were dying out on that border, though, and the eggs that were in the temple on the night of the attack were meant to be trained as future warriors to help defend the dragon realms. Of course, that doesn't work now because DotD pretty much says the temple was just Malefor's temple and the Guardians are the only kind of dragon. So, basically, DotD pretty much doomed the dragon race unless they really do reproduce using crystals (another theory I had; I was so bored playing all of these games that I spent most of my playtime coming up with tons of ways to make them make sense in any way; it's how the Cynder 100 got started).

Well, Malefor did say he wanted to destroy the world, and there's more ways than one to do it. If this is the last LoS game, I think it's safe to assume that there's at least one species is going extinct (which is probably for the good, given just how much damage the dragons have done to the world at large and to countless species; enslavement, genocide, etc.).

That story sounds sick Razz! D:

lol, I wonder now if they are taking a break from Tlos now...

BTW, I loved the Cynder 100 you did Razz. In my opinion you made Cynders character better (by a ton) with those stories. :)

I've only read a few of those, but yeah they're good.

That story sounds cool too though.

Soo... Any other similarities between Spyro and Cynder?

Quote: Darby

I guess you're right about the first statement. Almost all TLoS characters can fight.

In my opinion, I think Spyro and Cynder's lives were changed more so than other characters' lives by Malefor. Spyro's life was completely changed because of Malefor. If it wasn't for Malefor, Spyro would have probably never met Sparx, nor his adoptive parents Nina and Ash. He would be living with his real parents at the Dragon Temple.
As for Cynder, she would have met her real parents as well, and would be an ordinary Dragoness like any other dragoness. There really would be no story to tell. So what I'm saying I guess, is that both have never met their parents because of Malefor. I guess that's kind of true for any Dragon Egg during the raid, but neither those eggs nor their parents survived. Oh, and Spyro and Cynder were the only Dragons of that generation that survived the raid, as far as we know.
That's all I have to say for right now. I can't think too straight right now to add anymore

Agreed with this and.................


Why does every conversation about Cynder turn sexual?I'm not whining or anything,but it just seems so weird. It happens with almost every game, the first thing some people do is start making pairings and finding any perverted aspects.

Really to be honest, I don't think anything perverted was intended with Cynder. I think it was all an epic fail on the writers' part, they probaly assumed that the audience of the LOS series wouldn't think about reproduction, thus they wouldn't think anything perverted about Spyro and Cynder being the only young dragons in the game.

BlackNight12: I told you you weren't going to like it.

In response to what Darby said way earlier: I honestly don't think we would have ever seen Spyro or Cynder's real parents (presuming dragons even reproduce that way, which I'm pretty sure they don't; the games certainly don't hint in the slightest that they would, beyond Ignitus possibly being Spyro's biological father). I kind of hate the importance so many fans place on their possible parents, too. Flash and Nina were Spyro's parents and he loved them; I'm still furious that the games completely ignored that. You don't have to be biologically related to your family for them to be your real family.

Cynder winds up being talked about in a sexual way mostly because she was designed for that exact purpose. The real reason I even know LoS exists is because someone on a questionable site I used to visit started a thread asking for dirty art of her in her dark form back when ANB was the only LoS game. DotD made it a million times worse, to the point that most people don't recognize DotD Cynder as anything but a sex object.

I can agree that the writers probably didn't think this all the way through (she wouldn't have been the only female if they had), but by the time DotD came out, I have no doubt they knew exactly what they were doing (especially since most of DotD is nothing but blatant fanservice in the worst way). Her redesign in DotD is too obviously suggestive to be anything but what it is, and the massive increase in Cynder smut immediately after that game came out pretty much proves my point. They used her as fanboy bait and they got exactly what they were trying to catch with it.

Quote: crazyspyrofan

Why does every conversation about Cynder turn sexual?I'm not whining or anything,but it just seems so weird. It happens with almost every game, the first thing some people do is start making pairings and finding any perverted aspects.

Really to be honest, I don't think anything perverted was intended with Cynder. I think it was all an epic fail on the writers' part, they probaly assumed that the audience of the LOS series wouldn't think about reproduction, thus they wouldn't think anything perverted about Spyro and Cynder being the only young dragons in the game.

I know! It happens all over the place, alot of the time when you talk about the bad in her and how to fix it ppl immediately jump on you and scream about how perfect Cynder is! Not only that, but if you seach Cynder the Dragoness on google with partial safe search on, most of the images are okay, butone of the first images is a close up of her butt! There's more sexual stuff further down. I don't care if safe search was on or not, SHE'S A CHARACTER IN A KID'S GAME! Images like that shouldn't pop up on bloody google!

EDIT: Eew, I just activated total safe search and those images are still there! DX

Safesearch is pretty useless!

If the worst you're seeing is Cynder's butt, safe search is doing it's job, because, trust me, if it's off, there is a lot worse stuff of her out there.

Oh, I know all too well!
I ain't bothered by it though.

@ Razz, actually if you scroll down you may see pics of her having sex where the parts are visible.

Yeah, I know!
Man, this topic has kind of derailed, hasn't it?

Yes, can we get back on track? Does anyone have anything Spyro and Cynder have in common?

I've already said what they have in common: nothing more than being dragons and sharing temple floorspace as eggs.

One thing I never understood..... Spyro claimed her eyes were familiar..... Wouldn't that mean she was his sister after all? You wouldn't recognise someone's eyes unless they were one of the same.

I suspect it was more that he maybe recognized her innocence or childlike qualities or...something. This is one of the hundreds of things nobody bothered to check before it wound up in the game.

Honestly, given how little information we're given about dragons in this setting, I'm really not convinced that they aren't unrelated anymore. It's not made particularly clear why they're in the same batch of eggs and the first logical conclusion pretty much everyone came to was that they were siblings. We don't know who their parents are (provided these dragons even reproduce that way, which I hope they don't just for the sake of the species) and not a single hint is given (beyond Spyro and Ignitus looking suspiciously similar).

Yeah. I wish they were bro and sis, it'd be so much less cleche than the whole leading male and female fall in love bit.

Since DotD isn't connected with ANB/TEN except as bad fanfiction, why not just decide that they are? Not only is it more fun for you, but it will cheese off the rabid fan shippers to no end.

I was actually thinking about that, what if they were siblings. A brother and sister thing added in would have been pretty cool, IMO. I mean I would still be fine with them having a relationship and no t being siblings if they had done it differently.


Quote: Razz

Since DotD isn't connected with ANB/TEN except as bad fanfiction, why not just decide that they are? Not only is it more fun for you, but it will cheese off the rabid fan shippers to no end.

lol!xD

True Razz...

Another possibility for them being related is the Star Wars, Luke/Lei thing. Cynder said she loved Spyro and he seemed interested in her for all of five minutes, but this is before they found out they were related. Once they find that out, they'll stop liking each other real quick.

I think if they were to change it and make them siblings, Spyro and Cynder would have to act like it was not new news to them, else it'd be REALLY sick. The 'I love you' could be easiliy accounted for; she could have meant 'I love you bro'. Also, the way the information were presented would have to be in passing, ie. a comment on the bond of blood they share, or if they are reunited with Iggy he calls them his children. They would react to him being thier father, but not to being related. No, it wouldn't do to sit them down and tell them very seriously and clearly that they are brother and sister.

Not necessarily. Watch the original Star Wars films. Luke and Leia kiss once, and when he finds out they're siblings the look on his face is kind of comedy gold. With Spyro and Cynder, they didn't even do anything at all and he probably didn't hear her say that anyway, so it wouldn't matter.

I can see it all now...

Ignitus: Spyro, Cynder. I need to tell you...I'm your father.

Cynder: *snort* Knew it. You look too much like him to be unrelated, Spyro.

Ignitus: Er, no, Cynder, I'm your father and his.

Cynder: ... Sweet Ancestors. D: But I...he...! We didn't, but I was thinking...! Oh god!

Spyro: *being his usual clueless* Yay! I always wanted a sister!

Perhaps...

I kinda like my idea better though.

Quote: Razz

Not necessarily. Watch the original Star Wars films. Luke and Leia kiss once, and when he finds out they're siblings the look on his face is kind of comedy gold. With Spyro and Cynder, they didn't even do anything at all and he probably didn't hear her say that anyway, so it wouldn't matter.

I can see it all now...

Ignitus: Spyro, Cynder. I need to tell you...I'm your father.

Cynder: *snort* Knew it. You look too much like him to be unrelated, Spyro.

Ignitus: Er, no, Cynder, I'm your father and his.

Cynder: ... Sweet Ancestors. D: But I...he...! We didn't, but I was thinking...! Oh god!

Spyro: *being his usual clueless* Yay! I always wanted a sister!

lol!xD I would love to see that!

God, how would that fantards react? Do you suppose they'd STFU and move on or explode in a ball of flame all over the forums?

the explosion one...

Neither do most of us who posted here.

I'm willing to bet the rabid SxC shippers would react the same way Zutarians did when their ship sank: constant, never ending fan****. It would still amuse me.

They both pms in dotd. I'm gonna get shot, aren't I-*shot*

That's kinda funny. I see what you mean though, Cynder is something of a raging b*tch, and Spyro goes from sad and self pitying to super serious to happy really quickly.

*Imagines the fanfic*

Quote: "quality" fanfic

butt, wi r bruther und siztah, wi shudlnt!
dun worri, bruther
[*overly long ikea mating scene*]

Uuugh! @_@

Hang me the brainbleach! D: