darkSpyro

For whatever reason, the apes from LoS have been coming up in conversation for me a lot. So, in hopes of starting a conversation that isn't about Cynder and to satisfy some curiosity, I'd like to know: am I the only person who liked them in LoS? Did anyone else start to side with them as the games progress?

ANB
They weren't the most compelling villains here, but I was always amused by the noises they made, if a little confused by why they were Dark Cynder's army. For most of the game, I felt pretty sorry for them since they were continuously being beaten up in the most horrible ways (LoS is one of the more violent set of games I've ever played, oddly, which is one of many reasons the series just doesn't sit well with me).

TEN
This is where they really started to stand out to me. In several scenes, Gaul implies that the apes have endured a lot of suffering at the dragons' hands and I always wondered why. Gaul himself was a compelling character if you looked past the obvious stuff (I honestly don't buy that he was evil "just because", no matter how much the producers want you to believe that). Despite Gaul being the main boss, you really only had to fight the apes at the beginning and the end of the game, so I didn't grow to hate them for pushing me off things the way I hated the pirates, monster dogs, ghouls, and pretty much every other enemy. If you stop to think about it, there was also a really interesting father-daughter relationship hinted at in TEN between him and Cynder.

DotD
And here is where what little tolerance I had for the dragons' side of the war went away. They already had some arrogance issues previously, but it was pushed over the edge here and I was pretty much rooting for the whole world to be destroyed if for nothing other than a reason to start things over in that universe. I thought it was monstrously unfair what Malefor did to the apes and what was implied about them (again, this was where the producers really tried to push the "oh, well, they're evil because they're evil" schtick, which is just sad because there was a lot more potential they skipped). What happened to Malefor by the end wasn't nearly what he deserved. As for being game enemies, they were my favorites to fight in DotD. Like ANB, they made fun noises, looked cool, and were pretty fun to fight (grab one and sling him around to re-kill all his zombie monkey pals! ).

For fun, here's the cover for my never-finished backstory about the apes and Gaul, Hand of Darkness. Even when I liked LoS, the villains were more interesting than the cookie-cutter trope-fillers that are every single good guy with a speaking part. The apes also showed up pretty frequently in my old Cynder 100.

Feel free to post any ape art/stories you've made or seen/read and enjoyed here as well any commentary you've got.

That top post is already pretty long, but I forgot to mention the other ape of note, the Conductor from ANB. That guy was awesome. If you haven't, I highly recommend going through the art gallery in TEN; there are tons of concept designs of the apes and they're really quite a bit more interesting to look at than a lot of people have given them credit for.

The apes were pretty cool, athough rather annoying in the DS version of ANB where they made the same high pitched barking, the same kind that makes me want to drop kick a chihuahua .

I personally enjoyed the Conductor over Gual. Although not having a big role, to me his personality really stood out and he could have been quite the stickler if he was development properly. True this can go with the Assassin and Gual as well but IMO the Conductor trounces them both.

As for the Father - Daughter like speculation for Cynder and Gual... it is a fine speculation I'll admit. However this does bring up to question: If Gual had such a loathing for dragons, why in the world would he bother to obey orders from a the Dark Master, let alone to capture and then poison another dragon which would more than likely was able to accomplish things he and his kin could not have?

Honestly, in the whole, why are the evil dilemma... Malefor has really got me intrigued. If you all recall, he goes about explaining what the role of the purple dragon was about in DOTD. This makes me wonder how in the world did he come to this conclusion? No way the Chronicler told him, no way his ostracizing could have caused such a twist in personality. I can understand him being very egotistic and arrogant, but wanting to destroy the entire world... seems a little to staged for me.

Don't get me wrong, Gual can be just as equally intriguing as well. What could have happen between the apes and dragons before Gary showed up? Was this clash of inequality raging on before Malefor was even mentioned?

TLOS left out a lot of things within their trilogy that only fans of Spyro (not just TLOS) would have to speculate and come up with the most sensible solution for .

I was at one time working on a fan comic that explained Gaul's back story and how he came to be under Malefor's control, Hand of Darkness. It made it to page 27 before I got so fed up with the LoS fandom as a whole that I just gave up on it. Let's see if I can sum it up briefly.

About a thousand years before Spyro was born, the dragons and apes were nearing the end of a huge war (that had been started by Malefor because the apes were the only species who wanted equality with the dragons instead of just submitting to them). The apes were almost completely extinct and Gaul, who had lived during the peaceful years before the war, gathered up the few survivors and decided to find a new home for the apes as far from dragons as possible. They wandered into the mountains which weren't really a good place (they were hoping to find something worthwhile on the other side).

While in the mountains, Gaul meets up with a dragoness who was exiled (she's a pariah, which is basically a crippled and cursed dragon that is almost as unusual as a purple dragon simply because they so rarely survive hatching; they are the only dragons who have any power over the minds of others, but that power is a curse and will drive them mad if they live long enough). She decides she likes Gaul and his apes and follows them despite Gaul's attempts to discourage her. One thing leads to another and she accidentally unleashes a mind fury on all the apes, twisting their instincts so that they think of her as non-threatening even though she's their enemy. Gaul chases her away after that, but the damage has been done.

The apes eventually come to a big mountain where a dragon calling himself Brand lives. Brand convinces the apes to stay with him and says he'll help them find a way out of the mountains (the apes literally only put up with him because the pariah messed up their danger instinct with dragons). He and Gaul don't get along and Gaul is planning to leave soon when he finds the pariah again, mortally wounded (which is something that shouldn't happen to her because of her curse; it's a bit more involved and I can explain if anyone cares). She's babbling madly and delivers a prophecy for Gaul before begging him to kill her, which he does.

Right about then, the mountain starts to shake and Gaul rushes back to where his people are only to find Brand, who says he tried to stop the mountain from falling on the apes but he couldn't. Gaul is now the last ape alive. He then starts to talk to Gaul about the possibility of bringing the apes back. Grief-stricken and weary, Gaul agrees to do whatever it takes to save his people. Brand pulls a gem out of himself and gives it to Gaul, who puts it in his eye. Now that they're connected, Brand takes control of Gaul's mind and body and reveals that he is Malefor and he's going to use Gaul to finish the work he started (namely, to make a better world for dragon kind). The apes you fight in the game aren't living apes, they're constructs of crystals, dark magic and bits of ape spirits who are tied to the world because of Malefor and Gaul.

Dang, I forgot how long and involved that story was. It's more complicated than that, but that's the short version. So, one of the reasons (at least by my logic) that Gaul does his best to care for Cynder when she's young is because she reminds him of the pariah (who, over the course of a thousand years, he's come to like since she protects him in his dreams, the only time Malefor doesn't have complete control of him). After Cynder is corrupted by Malefor, Gaul completely despises her and he eventually gets Malefor to kill him when Malefor takes control of Spyro's body at the end of TEN. After that, he and the pariah take the ape spirits away from the world (except for the few ape spirits who betrayed everyone and are staying around, which is why we get zombie apes in DotD ).

As for the Conductor, yes. I bet he caused Cynder a lot of trouble.

Also in DOTD, they're trapped in crystal, why the hell did Malefor have them set free? That's just asking for an ass whooping.

Yeah, that was pretty stupid. I mean, he knew where they were and apparently even had time to build frickin' catacombs around them, but didn't bother to just smash them. And he literally had no reason for needing Spyro to come to see him in DotD.

I see, so your saying that Gaul is more on the lines of a tragic villain then just some random villain for the hero to beat up. Not bad, a little confusing but not bad. If am not mistaken isn't pariah the definition for outcast or someone who is part of a low caste :/ ?

Anyway, somethings do arise that seem to conflict with the original story, if there ever was one , of TLOS. If I'm not mistaken, the Chronicler told Gary, that Malefor was banished from the temple, and then found the apes in the mountains do to some inequality struggles.

I think that's how Malefor, apparently being the sliver tongued fiend that he is, persuaded them to follow him. Not to mention that Malefor taught Gual and his kin to harness dark gems if not artificial gems which was the very life force for the dragons.

All in all, your speculation is intriguing to say the least... don't know how long you actually started doing it, probably two years ago, but it does seem better than TLOS could have done.

Personally, I don't have any spec's on the situation, do to the fact that there are so many plot holes that I just didn't give two cents to care try to piece them together. Plus I got more important things to do then try to come up with a solution, unfortunately .

All in all, there is a lot to speculate on the situation... I guess when you look at it your way that makes Gary a mindless killing machine... which is true IMO.

Yep, a pariah is an outcast. This particular pariah had a name but that was taken away after she nearly killed a Guardian by taking over another Guardian's mind. Yeah...there's a lot of complex backstory in HoD that I didn't get to in the brief summary.

I liked Gaul as a more complex character. The games imply a lot of interesting stuff about him (he says outright that the apes have suffered under the dragons).

I started doing HoD shortly after TEN came out and before DotD came along and pretty screwed up any hope the trilogy had of being decent. I did much of it at work while I was painfully bored.

I always thought of Gary as a mindless killing machine. His attacks in LoS are brutal and way out of proportion to the situation. It doesn't help that apes make some really piteous noises when they die, nor that we know they are intelligent, feeling beings who are being slaughtered. I couldn't stomach playing the game without giving my brain something fun to do, and it decided to solve the problem of the apes.

I'll I have to check out HoD then... I've seen a couple of pics here and there. It looks interseting, and that's putting positively. On the note, how's your comic for Just for Faun going? Y'know the comic that features Ripto and Elora and what not?

Its not just Gaul that needs to be more... Complex, everyone in that trilogy needed some serious attention in the development department . *sigh* oh well its up to Spyro fans to make such development now .

As for Gary, yeah, really really don't like him. Very fictitious character and that's putting it mildly. Makes no sense how a whelp like Gary can have the same power output as a Guardian... despite him being special he shouldn't be able to take care of waves of enemies without loosing control of himself or something.

I can understand unleashing a big can of butt whopping but yeah, needs to be catch though. In other words he needs to sacrifice something in order to deal with such a threat.

All in all, there a lots of characters, and species that's just dying to be developed... Sadly I don't really have the time for such leisure anymore (college will do that to ya ).

I especailly have more interest in the Conductor, heck I even call him Jacques from Spyro the Dragon just give him some flavor. Which leads me to say this: I do, and hopefully get around to, hope to make a fan comic of the TLOS series, IF they kept Spyro's original personality.

A big WHAT IF thing if you will. However, my drawing skills have diminished and my writing skills needs a serious overhaul in that sense... oh well I guess this thread is good for Spec's and what not, eh?

Quote: Razz

Yeah, that was pretty stupid. I mean, he knew where they were and apparently even had time to build frickin' catacombs around them, but didn't bother to just smash them. And he literally had no reason for needing Spyro to come to see him in DotD.

Looks to me as though the Catacombs existed long before TEN.

Why break them out? There are two reasons to do that:
1) They would be free at a later time anyways (either someone would free them or the Crystal would break on its own eventually)
2) By having the Golem kill them (or at least kill them at that location in the Catacombs), Malefor would gain some advantage that is worth the risk.

1 does not work because then the Grublins could have dealt with them while they were unconcious. Therefore he must have been seeking to gain something.

LoS is so screwed up (besides the passing of the series to EL mid-series) I can't decide what to think of the apes. Even Gaul. DX

Thanks for asking about the comics, Zackeio. Unfortunately, all of my fan comics are on hold indefinitely. I'm considering getting a volunteer artist to help with them, but otherwise, I'm way too busy for them. I've got enough work on my plate with my original comics, Ye Gods! and Creature of the Night.

Meh. Don't waste your time on fan stuff like this. It's a fun hobby, but if you have original ideas and content to produce, that's a much better use of your time. If you do it for fun and as a hobby, that's fine. Just don't get sucked into it.

As for Gary...yeah. Insomniac Spyro is pretty much better than he is in every way, and kicks more booty, too.

I like the name Jacques. It's a shame he got mowed down in Gary's homicidal spree.

It is possible the Catacombs existed before TEN, but DotD implies that they are in the ruins of the mountain, and if that's the case...well, giant plot hole ahoy! No part of the mountain looked that nice in TEN and, even if it had, the spot where the crystal was formed was caved in. The only explanation is that they were moved, and if that's the case...why?

Malefor could have been seeking some advantage, but the game doesn't ever imply that he was. Honestly, like most things in DotD, they did it because it looked cool and fits in with the generic epic fantasy feel they were aiming for. Logically, none of it stands up.

But, honestly, why are we talking about Malefor here? He's lame and his fans have already started eight hojillion topics for him. This is for the ape fans!

The Apes are okay from my veiw. They are fun to beat up and... Wait. When did they appear in DotD? Are they the skeletons you find?

Yep, that was the apes. Malefor turned them into zombie skeletons.

I did like the Apes, they always made my day one way or another with the noises they make in ANB and and in TEN the suggestions of a interesting back story and in DtoD the return of them and such. I mean, I wish they would have focused more on them, make a soild backstory...I think I'm blabbing.

The Apes in DotD were the only ones who were familar with ANB and TEN. I'm glad they keep their original battles noises than letting EL do them.

The apes were awesome, though, like Razz, I agree they were treated badly by Malefor. I like their little 'bwa ha har' noises they make.

i dunno i also side w/ some of them but my sister abolutly hates them for whatever reason.......if yu ask me they are actualy kinda kool........especially in TEN.

Quote: Razz

Yep, that was the apes. Malefor turned them into zombie skeletons.

That must've sucked

Having been stripped of your flesh and doomed to be skeletons as a reminder of being disloyal to a crazed purple dragon. Yeah, that must suck.

I'm surprised they didn't speak in the game.

The Developers should've given the enemies more personality, especially the Elites, all they do is "Urgh, I've got to kill him now, DUH" That's how there minds are.

Quote: Aura24

Having been stripped of your flesh and doomed to be skeletons as a reminder of being disloyal to a crazed purple dragon. Yeah, that must suck.

I'm surprised they didn't speak in the game.

Well, seeing as they have no flesh or organs they can't speak without either a stomach, a pair of lungs and a larynx

But they can still screech and yell like they did in ANB and TEN. If they didn't have vocals, then they wouldn't say anything.

Yeah... It's not the wisest idea to try and apply logic of any sort to a game series riddled with plot holes and which has main characters who spit magic out of their heads.

Quote: Razz

Yeah... It's not the wisest idea to try and apply logic of any sort to a game series riddled with plot holes and which has main characters who spit magic out of their heads.

I lol'd. Nice one, Razz.

Quote: Apoc

Quote: Aura24

Having been stripped of your flesh and doomed to be skeletons as a reminder of being disloyal to a crazed purple dragon. Yeah, that must suck.

I'm surprised they didn't speak in the game.

Well, seeing as they have no flesh or organs they can't speak without either a stomach, a pair of lungs and a larynx

Nor do they have muscles or anything to hold the bones together.

But they still made screech noises they had in ANB and TEN.

You know, I've become REALLY interested in the Apes.

In fact, in my comic featuring my renditions of Flame and Ember in the LoS universe, I have a main character that is Gaul's "apprentice", you can say. He's more of a lemur then a Gorilla/monkey, but he's still a primate. :D

I really am loving the monkeys. c: I felt them becoming extinct in DotD was a huge letdown. I always loved those funny little monkeys, blowing eachother up. xD

Quote: Aura24

But they still made screech noises they had in ANB and TEN.

*brain explodes*

Maybe not all of the Apes have been cursed by Malefor. Maybe some of them are still flesh and blood, and are probably in hiding.

It's possible

Razz that Father Daughter type realtionship is pretty much Emotionally Untrue.

Think of Naruto with Sasuke..He considered his friends naruto and sakura but now thanks to finding out his brother had to kill his own family order via the village he has since descended into darkness. Wanting to Crush the Village and everyone in it.


I rather Think Gaul would of treated her much like a dog.

However at the same Time it gets me thinking..At the short Commerical for Ten, When training Gaul attacked cynder..This made spyro somewhat angry and used A powerful Attack on him..Was Gaul trying to get a message that This Purple Runt...Would Protect her?