darkSpyro

just leaving this here for you https://www.instagram.com/p/CU5B7tKgyKQ/

i don t like him

he was a horrible person and i hope he's rotting in hell

let's shame him by listing terrible things he did

Benjamin Keen, a historian of the Spanish conquest of the Americas, noted that multiple sources confirmed accounts of "exhausted Indian carriers, chained by the neck, whose heads the Spaniards severed from their bodies so they might not have to stop to untie them."

Quote: ThunderEgg

he was a horrible person and i hope he's rotting in hell

this absolutely

and Danny i will be back to shame him

Really bored gonna be contraian for the sake of it to make me better at discussing stuff. christo columbo going to America is one of the most important historical figures in human history and gets a bad rep from mis translation and out of context quotes. And the biggest reason is because he connected two worlds together. Sure the Viking dudes "discovered" America first but what did they do with that knowledge? Here's what happened with the Vikings. They found a cold place and called it Greenland to make it sound amazing. Then people came to Greenland and found out "crap there's no wood here". So they go they to America and see timber and then leave a year later. What columbo jumbo did was bring together very different cultures that impacted the world forever. Like imagine if we didn't know Australia existed lol.

The whole saying of him wanting to be servants can be one of the either statements. Make them slaves or make them servants of God. It just depends on how his quote is translated.(although both are still pretty bad)

We shouldn't blame all the horrible treatment of indigenous people on one dude who had boats. Sure he introduced the idea of trying to "educate" natives but he didn't have anything to do with native American treatment in the united states. Because he didn't discover the United States. He discovered north america.

probably my weakest point because of how morbid it is that natives were gonna be introduced to new diseases in one way or another. You guys remembered the black plague? These just kinda happened back then. It was either some virus was gonna pop up or someone was gonna bring it there. If the Chinese were the first to come to America than the same thing would have happened because of the different environments the two cultures were around. Plus it's not genocide because he never had the intent to kill off "indians". Because remember he wanted to meet Indians to trade spices and make them find god. (Which is still pretty bad).

Even tho I fully support a day for indigenous people ironically the arguments used for it of natives being treated badly by Americans is the same as one of the reasons of columbo blumblo Christo day being about Catholics being treated badly by the world.

The idea of blaming all of the bad treatment of natives in America to one dude is pretty silly because he was alive for like less than 1 percent of it.

Overall. The dude wasn't really important for United States history and replacing his holiday with another seems more like a reason to hate a dead dude than celebration of culture. He also doesnt deserve a us holiday because he introduced the idea of colonization and treatment of different cultures.

what.

Quote: ThunderEgg

what.

blaming americas treatmeant of igneous people on khristopher kolumbus is lazy because he doesn't even know what an America is.

chrissy columbussy didnt want to commit genocide over the natives. he just wanted to enslave and manipulate them.

blaming christal columbussel for all of the horrible treatment of igneous people would be like blaming black racism in america on anthony johnson because he had the first slaves in America when its been a problem with the country throughout its lifetime.

ironically columbusususus day started by Italian americas stating that columbussen discovered America to stop prejudice aginst catholics and italians

I find the savior complex people have for indigenous people kinda weird because the media treats them like "pure innocent wholesome" people who did nothing wrong and kinda groups them up into one group when in reality there are many different types of cultures. its like whenever you call a black dude African American. sure its not technically racist but a lot of black people arent African or American

I think replacing a day named after a man who did bad stuff to people with a day called "indigenous day" seems kinda patronizing and belittling to them. why not just make a new holiday another month and make it a history and celebration day or month like black history month.

Quote: ThunderEgg

what.

^this.


dude, i don't blame columbus for everything everyone after him did, i dislike him because of the atrocities he committed, allowed, and ordered.

what the hell do vikings have to do with this?

it's easy to say the ends justify the means when you're a 20th century american, but i'm pretty sure the natives who were murdered, raped, and tortured would have preferred it if those very different cultures never did come together. would the world really be better off if that were the case? eh. would the natives? probably. could there have been a means of bringing those very different cultures together that didn't involve murder, rape, and torture? pretty damn sure.

uh... that's all i can bare of this right now....

Quote: YesterdayFemmey

Quote: ThunderEgg

what.

^this.


dude, i don't blame columbus for everything everyone after him did, i dislike him because of the atrocities he committed, allowed, and ordered.

what the hell do vikings have to do with this?

it's easy to say the ends justify the means when you're a 20th century american, but i'm pretty sure the natives who were murdered, raped, and tortured would have preferred it if those very different cultures never did come together. would the world really be better off if that were the case? eh. would the natives? probably. could there have been a means of bringing those very different cultures together that didn't involve murder, rape, and torture? pretty damn sure.

uh... that's all i can bare of this right now....

its also easy to critique historical figures with contemporary values by being a 21st century American.

leif erikson is mostly known for being the guy who discovered America and was a viking. the vikings are said to be the guys to discover America.

dude the natives also raped and murdered people from colonies or other tribes. no there couldn't be a way to bring the cultures together without murder, rape or torture because that wasn't who people were back then.
Columbus also never stated he wanted to kill the natives. his goal for the voyage was to create trade posts and find gold/spices. but north America didn't have anything worthwhile money wise so he couldn't pay back his investors. so he did what any other explorer did at the time and enslaved and sold the people (similar to what the Portugues did in Africa). but besides that the only source of him saying horrific things was a mistranslation by a dude named Bartolomé de Las Casas who was known for hating columbus and created slander against him.

you know what would have happened if he never went to america? another dude would have came from russia, portugal, china, etc. a revolution of a super big tribe rising to power and doing a ghangis khan. or the most plausible. they mostly die off from a big disease.

I'm not defending columbus and saying he was a good dude. I'm saying he isn't the sole reason why natives were treated so badly for 400 years. plus having a day of just saying "fluck this guy" seems pretty toxic and unwarranted because there isn't a day for saying "fluck hitler" because what reason would it serve. its not like most non native Americans care about the native Americans. it just seems like a way to virtual signal how progressive we are.

Quote: Drednaw

i love how everyone's completely ignoring the fact that man put his dick in a manatee

did you know he thought he was doing a mission for god during these trips and that the world was ending because of it

the notion that "it was a different time" means that being a terrible person was okay is toxic. the expectation was different, that doesn't mean it's okay, otherwise there never would have been any reason for change. duh. any historian who takes themselves seriously knows that what columbus did was brutal even by the standards of that time.

i know who lief erikson is, i just genuinely don't understand what point you were trying to make by bringing that up.

do not try to educate me about my people's history. i never said they were all angels, but a kindergartener can tell you that two wrongs don't make a right.

and it's pretty cool how you can see into alternate time lines and tell us what would have happened. if i tried that it would just be speculation.

and indigenous people's day isn't meant to be a **** you to columbus, it's a celebration of, uh, indigenous people. the fact that it's on the same day as columbus day, i don't really like that myself for a few reasons.

oh, and when i said 20th century american, i meant that you were born in the 20th century by the way. saw what you did there.

Quote: YesterdayFemmey

the notion that "it was a different time" means that being a terrible person was okay is toxic. the expectation was different, that doesn't mean it's okay, otherwise there never would have been any reason for change. duh. any historian who takes themselves seriously knows that what columbus did was brutal even by the standards of that time.

i know who lief erikson is, i just genuinely don't understand what point you were trying to make by bringing that up.

do not try to educate me about my people's history. i never said they were all angels, but a kindergartener can tell you that two wrongs don't make a right.

and it's pretty cool how you can see into alternate time lines and tell us what would have happened. if i tried that it would just be speculation.

and indigenous people's day isn't meant to be a **** you to columbus, it's a celebration of, uh, indigenous people. the fact that it's on the same day as columbus day, i don't really like that myself for a few reasons.

oh, and when i said 20th century american, i meant that you were born in the 20th century by the way. saw what you did there.

before i say anything else this was literally a **** post i made during my lunch break and i wanted to try to make an interesting discussion by being the side that i dont agree with. a really good moto to live by is "if you dont see yourself changing your mind during a discussion stop replying". im not even defending columbus in the post lol. i stated that he was the reason for colonizing getting big in north america and how he wanted to white wash natives by making them servants of god. the post is more "columbus was bad but not as bad as people make him out to be". if you want i could reply to my own post and try to find flaws with it.

"it was a different time" doesnt mean excusing awful behavior. it just means at the time it was the norm. i never said what he did was good. in fact most of the points i made were negative. most historians try to not be bias.

lief erikson was included because the video posted above mentioned how columbus didnt discover america. and lief erikson is commonly referred to as the guy who discovered america because technically he landed in north america first.

you seem to think that i am attacking you personally. i am not at all. this is more of a personal opinion but i don't think canceling historical figures really do anything. i get finding out people who you hear are good people in school doing bad things naturally makes someone angry because its like being lied to but the negatives get way more attention the postives. for example despite treating natives like garbage andrew jackson did do the second biggest expansion on who could vote ending the in hi words the "monopoly of government by elites".

im not at all dude. again im not attacking you stop thinking that. dont result to "ur toxic and wrong >:(((((". but in this case thats liteally what happened. natives in the north with better techonology such as guns and axes out performed neighboring tribes. there were literally wars with natives before the europeans set foot in america.

again the video was literally just a bunch of people saying "**** columbus". im not saying indigenous people's day isnt a celebration. its just that most people bring up the day as an excuse to say "**** columbus".

Quote: Drednaw

i love how everyone's completely ignoring the fact that man put his dick in a manatee

Even worst, he mistakened the manatee for a mermaid


Like come on
HOW DOES ONE MAKE THAT MISTAKE?! Did he think she was just very thick?

Quote: YesterdayFemmey

the notion that "it was a different time" means that being a terrible person was okay is toxic. the expectation was different, that doesn't mean it's okay, otherwise there never would have been any reason for change. duh. any historian who takes themselves seriously knows that what columbus did was brutal even by the standards of that time.

i know who lief erikson is, i just genuinely don't understand what point you were trying to make by bringing that up.

do not try to educate me about my people's history. i never said they were all angels, but a kindergartener can tell you that two wrongs don't make a right.

and it's pretty cool how you can see into alternate time lines and tell us what would have happened. if i tried that it would just be speculation.

and indigenous people's day isn't meant to be a **** you to columbus, it's a celebration of, uh, indigenous people. the fact that it's on the same day as columbus day, i don't really like that myself for a few reasons.

oh, and when i said 20th century american, i meant that you were born in the 20th century by the way. saw what you did there.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^

yeah this isn't something that should be joked about

edit: **** sorry i forgot ds formats multiple "^" as emojis

I didn't like when people at football games were screaming "F ISIS!!!!11!" during the national anthem. I'm not sure how I feel about the national anthem being sung before every game, I don't like it but it doesn't really bother me and it's easy enough to ignore, but while everybody else is being quiet and listening it got very obnoxious for people to interject and scream at the top of their lungs. Even if it is a sentiment I'm sure we can all agree with, it just seemed childish. Like wow you interrupted our national anthem to say a bad word, how will the terrorists ever recover?

that motto, are you trying to apply that to me or yourself? either way, i respectfully disagree. would it not be a shame if the people most confident in their beliefs were disqualified from trying to persuade others?

and i don't care that it's a **** post. i realize that. but why are you getting so sensitive when i reply to your post that is supposedly intended to make an interesting discussion? i'm not an historian, i'm a person with a right to an opinion.

my issue with your viking thing is that you seem to be suggesting that other people doing bad things before him somehow justifies him doing bad things. i know why you mentioned it, i don't understand what point you're trying to make with it.

i don't feel like you're attacking me. it never even crossed my mind. but you're defending a guy who did awful things. a guy who did awful things to my ancestors at that. so i'm gonna make my point. and no that just doesn't work for me, the problem is that we continue to teach children to worship people who are actually pretty terrible. that's why the negative stuff seems to get more attention. because for years and years it's been just the opposite. we've censored the truth and poisoned people's minds to become the hyper patriotic fools that so many are today.

i never called you toxic. i said a point that you made suggested a toxic way of thinking. and i do happen to think you're wrong, because we disagree, and i believe myself to be right. that's kind of how it works. i've given sound reason as to why i disagree with you too, i'm not just saying you're wrong.

that's what i said. but the way you used it, it just doesn't work, cause you used it to suggest that we shouldn't consider what he did to be wrong because it was the norm. the norm was wrong. you continuing to try to educate me while prefacing it with "that's not what i'm doing" does not make a difference. i never even said that was untrue. i said that it doesn't justify what columbus did.

and no, i watched the video. it was a reaction video to columbus. many of them said **** columbus, yeah, and they have the right to. that's how they feel. but throughout that video there were many people who made solid points and shared heartfelt thoughts and opinions. you are focusing on the **** yous. the media i guess uses it to say **** columbus, maybe people around you use it that way, but i find it unfair to say most people do. that is certainly not my experience.

(holy **** this was a long post...)

yo i don t have time rn for a reply but i just saw this christopher columbus was a murderer among other vile things i don t want to talk about those things were always viewed in a negative light and people back then knew it too he started and then led the conquest that ripped this land away from my people and to this day those wrongs have never been right so uh…….. **** columbus AND all of those who stood by him

Quote: Drednaw

manatee sex

You have such a way with words.

Quote: Drednaw

manatee sex

imagine being so lonely and horny

will you guys please shut up with that

Oh oops I have no idea who Columbus is I just thought Drednaw was ****posting about vaporeon again.

he is but i just want him to shut up with it he already posted that crap like ten times in my topic

Quote: skylandersfan60

Oh oops I have no idea who Columbus is I just thought Drednaw was ****posting about vaporeon again.

I mean he would probs do both

by the way here comes thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanksgiviiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnngg

fjkdshfkjak;fhadsj

The funny thing about blaming historical figures for events in the past, regardless of their level of involvement is that they're dead, and unable to take the blame.

So unfortunately you can't blame Charlemagne for setting in the chain of events that created the French, since he's not in the position to care.

not like anything interesting is being done with it

I mean this Columbus guy you all are talking about seems like a real jerk...

he is a jerk he deserves a shame topic on here on reddit on 4 chan or whatever sites get him kicked from owning that date i fully support and request that "christopher columbus day" be removed as a holiday from this country and fully replaced with indigenous peoples day nothing against italians but yo this is not your land celebrate something else on some other day

Quote: LeewweewoowheeH

he is a jerk he deserves a shame topic on here on reddit on 4 chan or whatever sites get him kicked from owning that date i fully support and request that "christopher columbus day" be removed as a holiday from this country and fully replaced with indigenous peoples day nothing against italians but yo this is not your land celebrate something else on some other day

Not sure if this is a joke or not

almost everything i say is but interested to know your take on what you think about what i said