darkSpyro

I'm trying to teach myself UDK. I went to school for animation and I'm trying to start a new portfolio and branch in to game design/development.

I'm new to this process (the way I'm used to 3D modeling for animation is different than developing meshes for UDK), and I don't have a design team.

What I would like to do with this thread is just pitch ideas and get feedback, ideas, advice, etc.


I opted for Spyro/Skylanders for a few reasons. Firstly, that it's familiar. I've played Spyro since '97 and my daughter has all of the Skylanders games. But that said, I want to do something different for this game.


Much in the same way that the classic Spyro was rebooted into the Legend of Spyro series, I think there's something to be said for doing the same for Skylanders.

My concept is to merge the three continuities, taking the best features of the classic Spyro, Legends of Spyro, and Skylanders into a single series. This would bring Gnasty and Ripto into the same universe as Kaos, as well as bring in Elora and Hunter as Skylanders.

Because they are now five games deep into the Skylanders franchise, the original audience has grown up a little, so moving from an ESRB E title to an E-10 title, I want to reimagine the characters in a slightly more realistic style. I don't want to drown out the fantasy elements, but would like to imagine Stealth Elf, Elora, Flameslinger, etc, as though the could be played by people, vs their current overly cartoon proportions.

Image credit: MAD-project


Image credit: meeko


I always preferred the free-roam level design of the original Spyro the Dragon over the path-driven levels of Legend of Spyro and Skylanders games, so I wanted to make this series more RPG-based.


Elements to bring back would include:

Bring back Avalar and characters with older games (reimagining Gnasty as an orc king, bringing in Ripto, etc.)

Bring back Spyro's elemental attacks (ice, lightning, earth)

Incorporate larger islands, allow for multiple paths and objectives

More organic character upgrades (For example Spyro's fire breath becoming more powerful as he levels up, rather than a specific upgrade)

Character-specific objectives (On the same map, Spyro might need to find different objects to progress than Stealth Elf or Trigger Happy)

This would be a large project, and frankly, I'm making plans for a larger project than I could myself implement. But even so, re-designing the Skylanders and previous Spyro characters seems like it would be a fun challenge, and drawing the island maps to incorporate or call-back to previous game levels would be cool.

Again, I welcome ideas and suggestions.

I'd watch out for Cease and Desist since you're planning a fangame, Acti isn't known to shoot down projects like these but you never know. Otherwise, at least the redesigns and models should be fair game, since fanart is very much welcomed unless it risks overshadowing the games(and since MAD Project did this fine, there's little risk).

That's part of why I want to do an offshoot rather than a direct sequel to either franchise. A dragon fighting an orc king (Spyro vs Gnasty) is fairly generic, honestly. Now, granted, the play mechanics and other characters would still be pretty recognizable, but my thought is developing a version of Stealth Elf (maybe a version that has a real name?) that has more character development and backstory and more specific in-game options would be preferable. Marketing to a slightly older audience would mean much in the same vein as A New Beginning, the previous continuity of Skylanders wouldn't be violated.

It may still be a stretch, but again, this is just a personal project meant for self-education. And if it gets to any kind of point, well, again, it's not like Activision couldn't just make the spin-off for older kids (I remember when I "grew out of" Pokemon, so it's not like ten- twelve-year-olds just stop liking the things the enjoyed when they were nine or eleven.)

Honestly, this wouldn't be a bad idea. I'd like to see a more, mature, possibly, darker version of the franchise.

One of the things that's been suggested to me by a friend (Spyro purist) is that the game pushes the toys hard, but that the investment doesn't pay off.

For example, in Trap Team, you need ten trap masters and eleven traps, not to mention four expansions, to complete all of the game. That's a lot of coin to shell out and the reality of it is that the toys are not playable as toys and while the characters are visually appealing, none of the characters impact the game at any level. The game is the same regardless of character.

So major questions:

1. How can I increase game economy?

Personally, I thought they should release multiple games per toy series. They could have done two games on Swap Force and possibly even three games on Trap Team. This would have expanded the time scale to purchase figures and portals. It's a tougher sell to buy Trap Team figures I still don't have when we have SuperChargers.

2. Increase economy of the toys.

While I like the idea of toys-to-life, I've never counted Skylanders as toys. You can't play with them. I think it would be smarter to market the toys as action figures (fully articulated dragons, elves, trolls, playsets, etc) and have the toys come with cards or codes.

Any other issues you'd like to see addressed?

The game is not the same because you change strategies. Blades keeps you crowd controlling, but Knight Mare is best up close and dodging dangeriously. You also don't need all these toys to complete the game, just 100% which is hardly needed because that's hats and trinkets and really small areas that barely offer fun. Min. requirement still is a skylander and the right portal.

I really disagree. I'm aware of the individual characters' difference in play, but this isn't the kind of game that really emphasizes play style. There's the potential for what you're talking about, and its something I really want to integrate, but I don't really see it in this game. Whether you have melee characters or area attacks, or projectiles, or even cc, the game is just a hack n' slash and little else. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against that. I loved Gauntlet after all.

But you touched on something that is very much at the core of what I want to do with this game concept: make the characters impact the game play.

If you play the game through as Spyro, you should have a different experience re-playing as Pop Fizz or Gill Grunt or Stealth Elf. Spyro can fly, breathe fire, etc. I want the levels to offer different paths to different characters, and not simply by element.

If possible, I'd like to have organic game play.

For example, in the first level, say you have a Mabu village. You have to clear out trolls, etc, but once you meet a minimum objective, you have the option of A) securing a bridge, fixing a well, or C) following the trolls into the mines. This is only an example, but the game would follow different objectives and missions based on your paths. If you secure the bridge, perhaps you get to go to a dragon forest and explore more of the island. If you fix the well, you end up in a sewer complex and have to help Gillfolk fix pipes. And if you follow the trolls, you're led through traps and more enemies. The game could emphasize exploration (I loved trying to find all the treasure pieces in the original Spyro and find all the hiding places), or puzzle solving, or combat.

Well, that's branching paths made around certain characters. Toys for Bob,at least, said they weren't going to do that for main parts of levels because it'd up the required Skylanders and go against their wishes of having any character get the most out of the game, paywalls aside. Dunno how that holds up now but that was Mike Stout's words after SSA came out.

But if it's not TTL, you're probably free to do that since there isn't a physical barrier. There's no traveling to Gamestop/ordering online to get past this X thing, if it's some character switching area or digital-only, it'll take very little time to get a different path explored.

Quote: Bifrost

Well, that's branching paths made around certain characters. Toys for Bob,at least, said they weren't going to do that for main parts of levels because it'd up the required Skylanders and go against their wishes of having any character get the most out of the game, paywalls aside.

Actually, that's not quite what I have in mind at all. I want to emphasize a consistent game experience where each character has their own strengths and their own story. The Skylanders have bios and backstories on the website and forums, but is there anything in any game that would tell me that Roller Brawl is looking for her brothers or that Thumpback used to be a pirate? No, and it frustrates me. There are the hero quests you can do with Cali, but I'd like to see a game that allows individual narratives. Gill Grunt would have the same amount of game play as Spyro, but they would diverge on their mission objectives in the same level. Spyro might be directed to a tower or something, whereas Gill Grunt would go through a swamp. The levels would hit major checkpoints (bosses, collectibles, etc) but the paths to get to those checkpoints would vary dramatically.

Personally, I never liked the gimmick for Swap Force. I thought the switchable combinations was really stupid, which was too bad, because I really liked the characters they introduced as well as the abilities they added. I liked having areas where you needed a character that could climb or could teleport. That is a major factor to what I'm doing now - retroactively assigning abilities to Skylanders. Way back in Ripto's Rage, Spyro had to pay Moneybags to learn to swim or climb, so I don't see it as being a big deal to assign abilities to characters. It would emphasize specific Skylander skills (which ones could blow up a wall, which ones can shoot a target) as well as impact the level navigation. Something simple like water could become a big deal. Fire and robot types might not be able to get wet. Some characters could tread water, but not be able to dive (Whirlwind, Wrecking Ball). Characters like Gill Grunt or Spyro would be able to swim easily, while rock types like Prism Break or Fist Bump would sink to the bottom (even the water type Wham-Shell would probably sink rather than swim). Certain characters would have to go around water, others would get stuck navigating the bottom to get back up, a few could cross, and a few could actually navigate hidden areas. Likewise, characters that fly would actually be able to bypass certain barriers but have to deal with other issues (high winds, attacking troll aerials, artillery fire, etc). This would allow flying characters to actually fly (as opposed to simply not touching the ground), but still keep them "in-bounds" for the level. A big thing I wanted to incorporate is cooperative play. I thought it would be very cool if Spyro could pick up Trigger Happy and play as a combo. Spyro would be able to fly and maneuver while Trigger Happy would be able to fire while carried. Or have Trail Blazer actually be able to saddle up other characters. Trail Blazer and Flameslinger could go together easily (archer on horseback seems very obvious to me).

So it's not that I want to emphasize one character at the expense of others, I just want to make a game where switching characters makes a difference and the myriad of Skylanders have their own missions, objectives, and stories. This would create a game where you could play over and over again and still have places to go. Aside from fighting trolls and the other forces of Kaos, you'd have the werewolf pirates, malevolent dragons, the drow, other villains, etc. You'd have mabu villages that would require repairs, cities with castles and dungeons. So if you pay over $200 in games and figures, that money actually goes to improving the experience. Essentially take elements of MMORPGs and make a massive version of Skylanders that grows as you add Skylanders to it. And design it with the kind of puzzles, collectibles, and exploration that gave the original Spyro so much re-play value.