darkSpyro

In Swap Force, I noticed classic Skylanders like Drobot, Zap, and Hex seemed weaker than they were in Giants and Spyro's Adventure. It took a lot more time to defeat enemies using them compared to using Skylanders from the new generation. In Trap Team, they were stronger again. Have any of you guys used classic Skylanders in SuperChargers? Do they feel a lot weaker than newer characters?

I love this series and want to continue buying the new game that comes out each year, but I can't afford to collect all of the Skylanders like I used to. I'd like to treat each new game like another set of levels I can use my favorite Skylanders in, and pick up a couple new characters that catch my eye. All of the games are backwards compatible, but I feel especially in Swap Force, older characters were dumbed down to motivate you to purchase new characters.

Yes ..

I've been using Series 2 Spyro and he feels better than ever. Same with Series 2 Trigger Happy.

I've tested out a lot of classic characters and they really all seem pretty decently balanced now. It's definitely not like how it was in SF.

Also there's been some fixes that TT screwed up .

E.g. High five now produces enough apples to heal him self on the slam path more then what the slam takes away , in trap team you needed to make sure u collected every Apple to just break even, which really made that path terrible . Now it's good

Between animations (High Five), aesthetics (Fist Bump's attacks) and general gameplay (Short Cut) I feel like this game did a worse job than Trap Team with old Skylanders.

Not worse than SWAP Force, though.

I still have to try out all the characters (currently replacing them all since I just unlocked the path-switching power) but my general impression is that keep changing physic engine is not a good idea.

All SWAP Force's Skylanders worked perfectly in Trap Team, even the ones which required knock-back to full express their potential.
It was a blast replaying them all.

Here they work perfectly... At the cost of Trap Team's.
That makes me think V.V.'s engine is much more restrictive, even if objectively better.

I don't consider pure damage outputs per se so don't ask me about those, but it's really annoying when a character's gameplay changes for apparently no reason.
I don't blame V.V.'s for that but both devs should sit down and decide an engine which can make all Skylanders shine and keep it for all the games to come.
I'm a bit tired of putting a character on the Portal and hope it didn't get screwed compared to the previous game.

Shouldn't be that difficult, really.
Just keep Trap Team's and add knock-back mechanics.

Actually, I feel like Hex can shoot her orbs much faster than before.

Quote: Drek95

Between animations (High Five), aesthetics (Fist Bump's attacks) and general gameplay (Short Cut) I feel like this game did a worse job than Trap Team with old Skylanders.

Not worse than SWAP Force, though.

Worse than gliching half of the characters animations?, sure whatever...
And can you explain how the V.V engines is more restrictive?, becuase as far as I know a character never changed his gameplay they only got nerfed or buffed, (and if it changed is becuse the user decided to exploit knockback in V.V games).

I'd rather have a character or two glitch some frames than Slow as Molasses Cup in Swap Force. Can't bear to even watch gameplay, everyone that's not new makes the game feel worse than it is when it comes to pace.

SC seems to have found middle ground. YES, the gameplay doesn't make it shine,but the smaller damage range-to-average enemy HP made any character reliable. Even 30 damage which everyone called laughable before is useful now. They just need to keep that for next game.

I feel like every character was balanced out perfectly. That was one of the problems with Trap Team, most of the Skylanders were really powerful, while others not so much. It made people want to prioritize those more powerful characters. And I personally don't have a single problem with Trap Team characters this game, they all play exactly as I expected them to. At least, the ones I own.

@Drek. You haven't played Wind-Up in Trap Team yet haven't you? He's TERRIBLE I mean they RUINED him. His button input is utter trash. TT had wonkier animations of the SF cast then SSC does with the trap team characters. I can think of a bunch of problems. Some are just odd jump glitches, some are animations, some are effects and some are with movesets.

Not to mention how once a swapper attacks in the air, they go right down to the ground.


Anyway, my feelings are that SSC plays very well when it comes to old characters, but not as good as SF. The balance is the best it's ever been. Better than SF and miles better than TT.


A lot of them have smoother animations compared to TT. Yeah some of them are slow looking but some are great.

Gameplay changes when animation change.

If Short Cut's main attack is somehow slower (not weaker, again I don't care about damage outputs and I'm happy there is more balance now in those terms) then his gameplay is potentially ruined.
If Snap Shot's arrows are slower then his gameplay change even if it's not a big change.
If High Five doesn't fly around like an insect anymore, is slow and his flight lasts for just a couple seconds then his gameplay changes, or in this case, is partially ruined.

They might be small changes or might not even be relevant for some people but I feel they generally change and often ruin the gameplay of a Skyander.

I feel like V.V.'s physic engine restricts TfB characters while the opposite isn't true.
TfB has a really arcade approach to the characters which let them come up with not-so-realistic animations which can make the Skylanders work better; on the other hand V.V. realizes rather realistic animations which work perfectly for all their characters but tend to feel forced when applied to TfB's.

Quote: Drek95

Gameplay changes when animation change.

If Short Cut's main attack is somehow slower (not weaker, again I don't care about damage outputs and I'm happy there is more balance now in those terms) then his gameplay is potentially ruined.
If Snap Shot's arrows are slower then his gameplay change even if it's not a big change.
If High Five doesn't fly around like an insect anymore, is slow and his flight lasts for just a couple seconds then his gameplay changes, or in this case, is partially ruined.

They might be small changes or might not even be relevant for some people but I feel they generally change and often ruin the gameplay of a Skyander.

I feel like V.V.'s physic engine restricts TfB characters while the opposite isn't true.
TfB has a really arcade approach to the characters which let them come up with not-so-realistic animations which can make the Skylanders work better; on the other hand V.V. realizes rather realistic animations which work perfectly for all their characters but tend to feel forced when applied to TfB's.

I highly doubt that's the case. I don't see how VV's engine is more restrictive. IMHO it's far more versatile and better than TfB's is almost every aspect whether in a huge way (Fighting mechanics) or small way (Graphics). Slower animations are on the developers/animators part, not the engine itself.

The VV engine is an entirely new engine, while the TfB engine is the Giants engine with enhanced graphics. I strongly encourage TfB to use VV's engine.

I also find SuperChargers' graphics to be superior compared to Trap Team or SWAP Force's; but even then... They most likely simply slapped those on old characters without really caring what the outcome would have been.
When I say "slapped them" I refer to environment lighting and such as V.V. wisely decided to leave Trap Team characters as they were, in terms of graphics.

But certain effects ended up influencing them as well (look at how dark Lob-Star appears sometimes or how Traptanium weapons distort objects behind them, to show both a bad and a good result).

No, I'm pretty sure slow animations were caused by the different physic engine not animator's fault, could be a matter of graphics but doubt it.
Overall V.V.'s games make you feel the characters more and have a really solid approach when fighting... But the majority of TfB Skylanders just feel clunky when played on SWAP Force or SuperChargers.
Realistic animation ruin the arcade feel of their gameplay and might end up ruining the gameplay itself.

They even shrunk down Trap Masters and heavily changed their walking animations, which is something I personally like but really wasn't required.

I encourage both TfB and V.V. to cooperate and "fuse" their engines to come up with a perfect one.
I'd like if TfB's could be kept but it definitely lacks certain aspects which V.V.'s perfectly captures.

I will say, as much as I like how the TM's shrunk, I feel like they're a bit too small. They should have been noticeably taller than Flynn, but shorter than Eon.


The way you feel about VV just slapping the TT, I feel about how TfB putting the SF characters in. ( The sad thing is that we're both probably right)

BUT for an understandable reason, to focus on the new game and its content. They did the best they could.

Although I still feel like VV did a better job with the TT characters than TfB with the SF characters.

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

I will say, as much as I like how the TM's shrunk, I feel like they're a bit too small. They should have been noticeably taller than Flynn, but shorter than Eon.


The way you feel about VV just slapping the TT, I feel about how TfB putting the SF characters in. ( The sad thing is that we're both probably right)

BUT for an understandable reason, to focus on the new game and its content. They did the best they could.

Although I still feel like VV did a better job with the TT characters than TfB with the SF characters.

Yeah maybe they are abit too small... But it's still better than being remotely close to Giant's size.

Yeah, I guess you are right.
Don't know if V.V. did a better job porting Trap Team's characters but they indeed did a good job.

That's why I say it's not their fault, not directly at least.
Being "less restrictive" (don't know how to put it better) TfB's engine didn't ruin SWAP Force's Skylanders' gameplay except for knock-back mechanics; on the other hand V.V.'s engine which is more "restrictive" ended up influencing Trap Team's characters.

Let's say it this way: TfB engine is so free it lets all the characters have the animations they want.
Sure, it's glitchy and laggy at times but in terms of animations SWAP Force's characters still play like they used to in the previous game even if Trap Team characters have a completely different style.
V.V.'s instead "forces" previous characters to adapt themselves to it thus changing a lot of animations.

Hope I worded myself better this time.

Quote: Drek95

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

I will say, as much as I like how the TM's shrunk, I feel like they're a bit too small. They should have been noticeably taller than Flynn, but shorter than Eon.


The way you feel about VV just slapping the TT, I feel about how TfB putting the SF characters in. ( The sad thing is that we're both probably right)

BUT for an understandable reason, to focus on the new game and its content. They did the best they could.

Although I still feel like VV did a better job with the TT characters than TfB with the SF characters.

Yeah maybe they are abit too small... But it's still better than being remotely close to Giant's size.

Yeah, I guess you are right.
Don't know if V.V. did a better job porting Trap Team's characters but they indeed did a good job.

That's why I say it's not their fault, not directly at least.
Being "less restrictive" (don't know how to put it better) TfB's engine didn't ruin SWAP Force's Skylanders' gameplay except for knock-back mechanics; on the other hand V.V.'s engine which is more "restrictive" ended up influencing Trap Team's characters.

Let's say it this way: TfB engine is so free it lets all the characters have the animations they want.
Sure, it's glitchy and laggy at times but in terms of animations SWAP Force's characters still play like they used to in the previous game even if Trap Team characters have a completely different style.
V.V.'s instead "forces" previous characters to adapt themselves to it thus changing a lot of animations.

Hope I worded myself better this time.

Yeah, that's fine.

Either way we don't know the actual reason.


I have to say I feel like TfB/Paul Richie/Who ever direct Skylanders games, is satisfied to easily. Not that it's a bad thing, but it can lead to bad things. looking at the SF characters in TT, they act odd sometimes with animations attack and the like. It feels like Paul went

Paul: Oh yeah that's fine. He's ok. His animation is choppy, but its ok.

I don't know, just how I feel.

It blows my mind how Wind-Up is in TT. He's down right terrible in it.


With VV, yes the animations are slow, but at least their smooth and fluent for the most part.

I personally liked the trap masters being reduced in size, they feel more like core Skylanders. But that's just a personal opinion.

You might be right... Devs should definitely pretend more from the game they are making.

Maybe you found Wind-Up so terrible in Tral Team because he was basically based around knock-back mechanics. Don't know. :/

It's not only the fact they are slow but also the fact they always want to be as realistic as possible.
And some TfB characters are definitely far from being realistic in terms of animations...

Quote: Drek95

You might be right... Devs should definitely pretend more from the game they are making.

Maybe you found Wind-Up so terrible in Tral Team because he was basically based around knock-back mechanics. Don't know. :/

It's not only the fact they are slow but also the fact they always want to be as realistic as possible.
And some TfB characters are definitely far from being realistic in terms of animations...

Yes, that is it but also his button input is very very bad. Try mashing primary attack with him fully upgraded on the cymbal path. He ends up charging them up when the button is mashed.

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

Quote: Drek95

You might be right... Devs should definitely pretend more from the game they are making.

Maybe you found Wind-Up so terrible in Tral Team because he was basically based around knock-back mechanics. Don't know. :/

It's not only the fact they are slow but also the fact they always want to be as realistic as possible.
And some TfB characters are definitely far from being realistic in terms of animations...

Yes, that is it but also his button input is very very bad. Try mashing primary attack with him fully upgraded on the cymbal path. He ends up charging them up when the button is mashed.

You brought up a really interesting point.
V.V. has proven to be a lot better when it comes to button inputs.

Another example is Cobra Cadabra's charged attack.
He always ended up performing it if you used his regular attack too fast, in Trap Team.
Now he works perfectly.

I hope TfB will get better at that for Skylanders 6.

Making a character slower (both attack and movement) is not a gameplay change is a nerf. For example hex has the slowest attack speed in TT and that don't ruins her gameplay. I played High five a lot in SCC even I defeated kaos in nigthmare mode only using him and I don't see how his gameplay is ruined.


This is how Cobra Cadabra animations work on TT.

So your point is adapting animations to a different system is worse than letting chompy and glitchy animations if the gameplay is slightly better? Seriously I don't understand your preferences Drek

More TT wonderfull animation

Fat Eruptor:

Strange Volcanic Eruptor "Shake" Animation

Infinite Glowing Horn + Flying Horn - Whirlwind:

Exploits and glitches =/= actual gameplay balance.

Again,I'd still rather have a glitched character that doesn't really detract from the game than everyone slow and frustrating to play unless you buy new ones.

Oh, look!
Visual glitches which don't impact gameplay in any way possible and can easily be solved in different ways!

I'll say it again: I'd rather have less polished (more arcade-like) animations which still make the character work than having one single frame changed, ruining a character.
If they want to nerf a character they should simply change his/her damage output.

But, again, animations are part of the new engine so it's not their direct fault.
That's why I hope they will find an engine which can make both dev's characters shine.

Dunno, SC has a good pace while footage of SF seems to take forever to go from point A to B with the veterans. An easy point to compare is the spiral path up a small tower in Rampant Ruins to doing laps around the Vault of the Ancients' puzzles.

I just watched the first video posted above (already seen the others).
I guess you end up finding a glitch when you start mashing the buttons like an hyperactive monkey with that exact purpose in mind.

The point is you'll hardly do that while playing normally so chances are you will never come across these glitches.
Not to mention some of those glitches, like Whirlwind's infinite glowing horn, are still in SuperChargers.

I could say to try and look for slow walk animations of Terrafin or Dino-Rang, which are glitched without doing anything weird but then again that wouldn't absolutely impact their gameplay.

Glitches are glitches, altering a character normal gameplay because of a different engine is a totally different thing.