darkSpyro

Kaos would be based off of the Devil Himself... (especially the boss fight form... "Demonic possession" type voice, etc...)
since he's a culmination of all elements, he's a culmination of all sins...
Now before you go and say that that leaves 7 sins, Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy, and Pride and 9 more Doom Raiders, there were 2 "forgotten" sins that have evolved/become less "deadly" over time, Apathy, and Vanity... Much like the two "Forgotten" elements, light and dark
The Gulper should be obvious, it's Gluttony, he gains power through engorging himself, and commiting gluttony, and I will not explain any further
The Golden Queen should also be obvious, Greed, she treasures physical objects and will go to any length to obtain them, even using the power to turn people to gold to get more of it...
The DreamCatcher represents Sloth, because she forces people to nap when they should be working... [notice how MOST of them were], then steals their knowledge, essentially forcing them to commit said sin, and then punishing them for it...
Dr. Krankenstein represents Pride, because he oversteps the biblical boundries of man's authority due to pride in his own knowledge, and creates life, the "Evilikin" and "Krankenstein" itself (Dr. Frankenstein and the Frankenstein's Monster, anyone?)
Chef Pepper represents Lust, because he craves delicacies and will do unspeakable deeds, like stealing a SEVERELY endangered species' eggs, to fulfil that craving...
Wolfgang represents Wrath, because, well, werewolf's are an embodiment of what happens when anger gets the better of us... And well, he lashes out at the world with his loud music, and he seems to be overly harsh when someone fails...
the Chompie Mage represents Envy, because he wants what he cannot have, to BE a Chompie... He resents humanity, because it represents everything he wishes he wasn't...
Lastly, Luminous represents Apathy, he rejected the nature of the world, where every light cast a shadow, and wanted to aquire a light to rewrite the nature of the world, neglecting the potential consequences of his actions, thereby turning something considered inherently good, Light, into something used for Evil purposes.

And Nightshade represents Vanity, or Vainglory, he thought he could steal anything, break in anywhere undetected, and escape any confinement, and ultimately failed at all 3 at the hands of the player, and is boastful, even when he can't deliver, "No trap can hold me! Oh wait, I guess this one can!" "I'm CLEARLY the right villain for the job!", when ANY villain would suffice, not nessessarily a MASTER theif (villain stashes seem to me like they'd be specific to him, no?) he believes his skills entitle him to stuff, even when they aren't his to take.

Any thoughts?

............


wat

Wow, that makes a lot of sense, never thought of it that way, and really intriguing!

Did you come up with this yourself?~

juarmo, I think you mean "Dr. Krankcase". Krankenstein is one of the other Air villains.

And I never thought the Doom Raiders to be like the Deadly Sins.

I'm not sure about Apathy being a deadly sin. And Vanity == Pride.

It's a cool concept, but in reality they are mostly all mixtures of Pride, Greed, and Wrath with some sprinklings of Envy.

That's actually pretty interesting!

This is a plausible theory, probably one of the best I've heard.

It's pretty common for writers to use a lot of this mythological/historical stuff to make charscters. And sins could've played a part In their design.

There's pretty much a group of charscter lists you can flip through when making characters, escpecially ones for kids coz the rest of the writers imagination can stretch them to be almost unrecognisable.

E.g. Greek gods, constellations, sins etc. anything described as a group like the 7 dwarfs lol.

Quote: Badwolfmichael

Wow, that makes a lot of sense, never thought of it that way, and really intriguing!

Did you come up with this yourself?~

Yes I did... for some reason, when I first heard of the Doom Raiders, the "Worst Criminals in all of skylands" I first thought of this anime my bro introduced me to called the "Seven Deadly Sins", which details the eponymous characters, the "Seven most wanted criminals", each bearing a mark of one of the Sins, who are Wanted for a crime that they did not commit, and one spent spent the days gathering the others so they could prove their innocence, and "find redemption",

I think I thought of it because of the 8 original characters, only one of them has the role of "Grade A Final Boss" in every game, another was a minor antagonist in a SINGLE game, that didn't even seem remotely related to the overall plot in any way... point is, the other SEVEN were nobodies, (and the one I was most familiar with at the time, bc of commercials, [didn't get the game until Saturday!], was "the Gulper", who was the very PERSONIFICATION of Gluttony in my eyes) who might as well be unique characters... but then I realized, that even with Kaos being "The Devil", the greatest evil in the world, the light and dark ones, would make 2 too many, so I looked up Wikipedia on the chance that there were more sins that were removed/assimilated into other sins in one of the instances that the Bible was revised... (also because I couldn't remember all of their names...) (not EXACTLY the same book it was 2000 years ago, people's perceptions of the teachings evolve, so do the teachings themselves to meet those perceptions) for instance, certain acts of vanity would now be perceived as acts of pride, or acts of gluttony (case in point, "Meditations on Boom!" Flynn was engorging himself in his own vanity, and is overly prideful in general)
And lucky me, there was TWO antiquated sins EXACTLY... and they fit the backstory and/or personality of the forgotten elements!

Headcanon accepted.

That's deep.

That's EXACTLY what I thought about once, but I didn't know where to put Chef Pepper Jack, Dr. Krankcase and the Chompy Mage.

It's pretty common for big villain groups be made based on that though of course TFB couldn't really say it out loud,but having the sins that are now part of Pride and Sloth is pretty smart of them.
Though,of course,it's also really awesome that they're not one-note on their sin. Golden Queen is also pretty damn prideful, Gulper is said to not spend a lot of time thinking, Dreamcatcher avoids admitting she's doing the wrong thing and clearly puts herself highly. When your characters have a clear base but don't have it slapped on their faces with nothing else(looking at you Deadly Six), it really shows the writing is going places.

nice work. not sure if they were molded after it but it fits.

Quote: Aura24

juarmo, I think you mean "Dr. Krankcase". Krankenstein is one of the other Tech villains.

And I never thought the Doom Raiders to be like the Deadly Sins.

Krankenstein's air lol

Also...
The music that plays during the final phase of Kaos' boss fight is a remix of Night on Bald Mountain.
Bald Mountain is claimed to be the resting place of the Devil.
So there's another one for your theory!

He also has part of Mars,Bringer of War, but it's a much shorter part of it than Night on Bald Mountain. Think that can be more explained by Lorne Balfe just going all out with the non-Lair of Kaos remixes.

I would agree but considering how much Activision makes and yet always craves more. I'm going to go with Acti isn't Christian. Or at least they don't act like it. Of course who am I to say that someone doesn't act like a Christian.

Ninja it doesn't take religion to know of the sins,just ask a ton of anime companies. And they can't really confirm this because then they'd be telling parents they have someone representing lust in their games... Which would be no good to the sales.

That is intresting…cool

Quote: AdamGregory03

Also...
The music that plays during the final phase of Kaos' boss fight is a remix of Night on Bald Mountain.
Bald Mountain is claimed to be the resting place of the Devil.
So there's another one for your theory!

Could you post both songs as a comparison?

Quote: GigaCamo

Could you post both songs as a comparison?

Can help with links. The start is Part 5,with a different tempo I think.Around 15 seconds or so AND after the first minute this is Part 3, also slightly altered to contain both segments at once.

Quote: Bifrost

Quote: GigaCamo

Could you post both songs as a comparison?

Can help with links. The start is Part 5,with a different tempo I think.Around 15 seconds or so AND after the first minute this is Part 3, also slightly altered to contain both segments at once.

Parts 3 and 5 from Traptanium Kaos for comparison.

Quote: Bifrost

Quote: GigaCamo

Could you post both songs as a comparison?

Can help with links. The start is Part 5,with a different tempo I think.Around 15 seconds or so AND after the first minute this is Part 3, also slightly altered to contain both segments at once.

They sound extremely simaler! Thanks for the links.

Quote: Bifrost

Quote: Bifrost

Quote: GigaCamo

Could you post both songs as a comparison?

Can help with links. The start is Part 5,with a different tempo I think.Around 15 seconds or so AND after the first minute this is Part 3, also slightly altered to contain both segments at once.

Parts 3 and 5 from Traptanium Kaos for comparison.

Creative!

Mind Blown!

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

Creative!

Quote: Skylander3112

Mind Blown!

This!

Quote: Bifrost

Ninja it doesn't take religion to know of the sins,just ask a ton of anime companies. And they can't really confirm this because then they'd be telling parents they have someone representing lust in their games... Which would be no good to the sales.

Its not just anime. The 7 deadly sins as a base are pretty common is media. The Humonculi in Full Metal Alchemist (I've never seen it but I know about them), the Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman movie Se7en and SUPPOSEDLY, Sponge Bob.

Fullmetal Alchemist is kinda both anime and manga. But my point was is that people do christian references all the time without really being part of the religion. Just like everyone loves to make references to greek,egyptian,etc mythology without actually being neopaganist.

Quote: samuraituretsky

I'm not sure about Apathy being a deadly sin. And Vanity == Pride.

It's a cool concept, but in reality they are mostly all mixtures of Pride, Greed, and Wrath with some sprinklings of Envy.

Apathy WAS a sin, it isn't anymore, but back then, apathy was defined as a lack of love, or indifference, to any of god's creations, someone who has been neglected, who will neglect others in their time of need, their cries of pain deafened to his or her ears... See someone being tortured, don't do anything to try to stop their suffering, THAT is apathy...
It also refers to being blind or indifferent to the suffering or inconvience of OTHERS as a consequence of YOUR actions...
Or having no value or respect for humanity, life, or the environment would be apathy...
Rejecting even one aspect of the world as it is, is considered apathy as well... (such as the existence of shadows...)
Its different from wrath in that, it stems from inaction, not bad actions...

Vanity, or Vainglory, is different from pride, "Meditations on Boom!" is a nonstop infraction of Vainglory... Pride is when you BELIEVE you live up to things, Vainglory, is when you glorify yourself to make others think highly of you...
like someone who makes himself out to be brave and heroic, just to be worshipped by a small town... Someone who makes others believe in him so he could feel better
Then, when trouble happens, and "they need him", he BOLTS...

Someone who knocks others down to feel above them, or someone who makes them BELIEVE that he is above them, for the sake of feeling better about oneself, is vainglory, but someone who ACTUALLY believes he is above others himself is PRIDEFUL...
a blowhard commits vainglory, a greenhorn commits pride...

And of course, a lot of the acts that once fell under the two sins were easily applied to other sins as well, so the two were merged into the others, and the acts of apathy and vainglory, couldn't be recategorized was considered less "Deadly"

This. This is one of the best theories (that really are pretty much true) that I have ever heard.

I think Wolfgang would fit better as lust. He travels to the future to be the a rock star overlord.

Chef Pepperjack seems more wrathful to me than Wolfgang.

Lust has a lot more to do with craving for something(not just the obvious thing) than with seeking power. Considering Chef Pepperjack is willing to eat anything,even a skylander, for the thrill of making something out of it, it fits more. Wolfgang also has a lot more outbursts during cutscenes when things don't go his way.

Quote: Bifrost

Lust has a lot more to do with craving for something(not just the obvious thing) than with seeking power. Considering Chef Pepperjack is willing to eat anything,even a skylander, for the thrill of making something out of it, it fits more. Wolfgang also has a lot more outbursts during cutscenes when things don't go his way.

I think the lustful side of Wolfgang is implied by the fact that he's depicted as being a rock star. Of course this is all just for fun. They all have aspects of each thing. Nobody is really wrong or right.

That'd be generalization and not very nice to music stars :U. In fact, they only say Wolfgang is a "musician" so he could've focused on rock music only after being transformed - unless it's lust for pain(since he discovered the note),which the games can't show because E10+,but the backstory stops at saying he's completely insane by now and not really looking foward to anything but hurting people with music.

Quote: Bifrost

That'd be generalization and not very nice to music stars :U. In fact, they only say Wolfgang is a "musician" so he could've focused on rock music only after being transformed - unless it's lust for pain(since he discovered the note),which the games can't show because E10+,but the backstory stops at saying he's completely insane by now and not really looking foward to anything but hurting people with music.

Not very nice to music stars? What? Google "rock star life" and you get results about how rock stars tend to die young due to their hard partying. Of course not all rock stars. But Wolfgang is a bad guy who broke out of prison. I'm just saying this for fun to help contribute to the topic. Why try to paint me as being a mean person? Wolfgang's entire level revolves around the fact that he's broadcasting a concert. How do you think he's not a musician? Totally baffled by your response. lol.

Not painting you as a mean person, just saying that if they WERE doing it with rock stars in mind it wouldn't be too nice for them.

And... I said he is a musician? It's just that the backstory doesn't specificy which genre at any point.

ILLUMINATI CONFIRMED!

Quote: Bifrost

Not painting you as a mean person, just saying that if they WERE doing it with rock stars in mind it wouldn't be too nice for them.

And... I said he is a musician? It's just that the backstory doesn't specificy which genre at any point.

Also, he plays the HARP, meaning he's playing an instrument that's VERY uncommon in rock, so your theory that being a werewolf made him a rocker, because rage is associated with Rock and Roll MUSIC, actually holds water...

Also, yeah, that's pretty much why I reasoned that Pepper Jack would be Lust, and why Wolfgang would be Wrath...

Despite the common perceptions of what Lust means, you can crave power, blood, a thrill, higher placement in society, etc...
And marking wolfgang as lust simply because he's a rocker would be stereotyping... and I've never thought ANYTHING that Pepper Jack did was driven by Anger more than Desire... He doesn't seem to be someone described as a hothead metaphorically so much as LITTERALLY, because his head is a CHILI PEPPER...

What does luminios represent?

If this had a like system, you deserve a dozen.

Well thought:
I now compliment you:

Interesting. Some good imagination there. And congrats on using some of the *forgotten* deadly sins.


I am sort of unclear on why you think Kaos is a representation of "The Devil". I get that he is evil, and the main antagonist of the franchise, but coming to the conclusion that Kaos as a figure-head of all sin and the other Doom Raiders are in-turn capital vices seemed flawed when none of them really respect him.

In my mind (as scary as it is), I am looking at this like Kaos is Wal-Mart and the other Doom Raiders are different isles of groceries. There is a relation between the two, but it is vastly different than the actual relationship between the characters.

As pride is largely considered the root of all sin in some cultures, it would make most sense for Kaos to be "Pride". That way he retains his (self-appointed) status as leader and has more of a relation to the other sin comparisons.

Though, the Frankenstein allegory is really difficult to pass on. So, I can see how you were making do with what you had.

Anyway, sorry if any of this sounded critical. I can be a little too opinionated sometimes. There are some really great perspectives in there, juarmo.

Kaos isn't only prideful, he's pretty, sometimes lazy, sometimes lashes out on others because of anger(Glumshanks can tell you that), just won't have someone taking a macguffin he was slightly interested in(not to mention family rivalry), and visibly won't stop lusting for power no matter how many small victories. In all five games,he definately got most if not all sins pinned down.

True, but another reason I feel Kaos would be pride in this scenario is because he foolishly seeks to rule Skylands. It sounds lustful, but he is always foiled by his own ego.

Of course you could always take this power lust and treat him as despair/sorrow. Desire leads to suffering, and Kaos always suffers in the end. But it never keeps him down for long, so that removed cardinal vice would not be so fitting.

Ah well, as I was stating before, IF Kaos had to pinned to a single sin, I imagine it would be pride. Since he has been the villain in every game, we have seen a great deal of his personality fleshed out and arrogance seems like a recurring default.