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Rivalry among creators?
ShinkenRed Gold Sparx Gems: 2651
#1 Posted: 05:08:50 29/03/2015 | Topic Creator
Now, I fully admit I am probably looking too far into this and I'm probably pulling things out of God knows where, but do you think Toys For Bob and Vicarious Visions have a rivalry within the brand? They've both been there as developers since the beginning, with TFB making console games and VV making 3DS games, of Skylanders,

In Swap Force, VV had some chests for the Giants to open, but that was the limit of their involvement as far as unique experiences go.

But in Trap Team, TFB had boulders for Giants to break during Kaos Challenge mode but absolutely nothing at all in the game for Swap Force Skylanders to unlock. No dual Elemental zones, no Movement Type minigames, nothing. And let's not forget several positive changes Swap Force brought to the game (including the well-loved ability to buy multiple upgrades without hearing overused dialogue every. Single. Time) were excluded.

Again, I may be overthinking the brand's development here, but it seems like both developers want Skylanders to be their unique vision while only giving their "partner team" limited recognition. Or, at the very least, it seems like TFB may be resentful for VV's success with the brand.

Anyway, I'd love to hear your thoughts! Am I overthinking things, do you think I stand on solid ground, do you not give anything resembling a care?
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wild_defender Green Sparx Gems: 465
#2 Posted: 06:24:09 29/03/2015
I'm pretty sure they do have a rivalry. But that's normal and good for the franchise coz they try to out do each other.

Swapforce definayely tried to out do T4B by adding a bunch of stuff . Then trap team tried to out do Swapforce by bringing the game back to its roots. They seem to aim for different things, which is nice.

It does make the games a little inconsistent. E.g. If you play SA then Giants then trap team, the games flow better by not including Swapforce. And Swapforce will probably pair better with Sky 5 .

I think seeing what they repose in sky 5 might be a insight into their relationship. coz I find it a little weird trap team only made 1 repose based off a swap force series character ( Fryno) . It could iether be a "screw you we are only reposing 1 of your characters " or " look we are reposing at least one of your characters " . So I really wanna see what VV do.
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Boombomb999 Gold Sparx Gems: 2238
#3 Posted: 12:08:28 29/03/2015
You bring up an interesting point, but you have to realize that having the swap zones or movement mini games would not be something they should have put in as it would draw attention away from the new trap masters. Also if you noticed toys for bob is more focused on making it so that you can complete the story mode with out the need for older characters, think about it in swap force you had giant chest which counted torwards the chest count for the level if you didn't own a giant then you were forced to buy one which I'm sure would confuse the newer fans. If they added say the movement mini game as something to do in the main levels then they would upset the newer fans with the need for 8 swappers (one for each movement type). The reason why the boulder in Kaos' doom challenge works better is because you don't NEED that tower to complete the waves and also the boulder is more universal to giants than movement types to swappers.

Don't get me wrong I do notice some small rivalry between TFB and VV and for all I know that may be the main reason for why everything I mentioned above being wrong. Also you forget to realize that some of the swap force characters were buffed in TT. But that's just my two cents on the matter.
(hope that didn't sound rude as it wasn't ment to be)
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Edited 1 time - Last edited at 12:12:27 29/03/2015 by Boombomb999
ninja9351 Emerald Sparx Gems: 4924
#4 Posted: 12:34:25 29/03/2015
I agree but I think that they are going to find some synergy with this light and dark thing as far as the story line goes at least.
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Bifrost Diamond Sparx Gems: 8848
#5 Posted: 12:38:30 29/03/2015
There is rivalry for sure, and though it's far from being unhealthy, it won't take much to get there.
And it's not just gameplay, VV didn't look at more than the very basic canon, and TFB seemed to only nod back and purposefully ignore Swap Force in the canon aside from two mentions(Flynn talking about greebles and Kaos' backstory) and do the same things their way(Golden Queen and Dreamcatcher are their obvious response to Kaos' mom and Mesmeralda). Unless VV got the memo and actually follows the lore properly this time, it might end up with both trying to outdo each other with sneering at the previous game.
They really need to learn that fans aren't stupid and will start finding differences between the games, and the fandom already had a huge crack from TFB vs VV with a single game on the other side. This kind of thing doesn't help a fandom do anything but get split and with it the sales. Even if they won't work on the same games, they should at least regularly discuss the worldbuilding and gameplay to make sure it stays consistent and favors both.
(there's also Beenox ignoring both as it wishes but considering they've worked with VV for over a decade it's far from being something we can question)

Just really hope Activision isn't actively encouraging them to have their own plot and gameplay each, just to outdo each other on quality. If that's the case yearly releases will soon end up making a mess with two sub series that are two yearly, like a horrifying evolution of Boost-to-win Sonic vs. Classic-ish Sonic.
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Edited 1 time - Last edited at 12:39:42 29/03/2015 by Bifrost
AdamGregory03 Gold Sparx Gems: 2156
#6 Posted: 13:49:15 29/03/2015
The only reason for the rivalry is because Activision keeps switching back and forth between the two developers like it's trying to pick a favorite child. They need to either pick one and stay with that one, or have them work together on games.
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Bifrost Diamond Sparx Gems: 8848
#7 Posted: 13:55:31 29/03/2015
Quote: AdamGregory03
The only reason for the rivalry is because Activision keeps switching back and forth between the two developers like it's trying to pick a favorite child. They need to either pick one and stay with that one, or have them work together on games.


Plenty of franchises have similar things or they have teams under the same company doing the game. They can't pick one because their actual favorite child is yearly releases, so they're going Call of Duty with it. The difference is having two teams that visibly don't talk to each other(even if they say so in interviews). They're supposed to be allies in this not competition.
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Edited 1 time - Last edited at 13:55:40 29/03/2015 by Bifrost
AdamGregory03 Gold Sparx Gems: 2156
#8 Posted: 14:34:37 29/03/2015
Quote: Bifrost
Quote: AdamGregory03
The only reason for the rivalry is because Activision keeps switching back and forth between the two developers like it's trying to pick a favorite child. They need to either pick one and stay with that one, or have them work together on games.


Plenty of franchises have similar things or they have teams under the same company doing the game. They can't pick one because their actual favorite child is yearly releases, so they're going Call of Duty with it. The difference is having two teams that visibly don't talk to each other(even if they say so in interviews). They're supposed to be allies in this not competition.


Yeah. I'm just hoping this doesn't effect the series in the future, otherwise I'm gonna be worried about it.
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Kinson420 Blue Sparx Gems: 610
#9 Posted: 17:16:10 29/03/2015
Your all forgetting VV has been involved since SSA. It's not a rivalry. They have always worked on the portable versions and all the mobile games were made by them. It's not a rivalry at all. Activision uses multiple developers, both in house and out for many of the games they publish. This allows the developers more time to make the games. Good examples are treyarch, infinity ward, and sledgehammer for the COD series. Each year a new one by one of these developers comes out, the next year its the other, then year after the other. They instituted the same development process with Skylander games.
Bifrost Diamond Sparx Gems: 8848
#10 Posted: 17:21:37 29/03/2015
Quote: Kinson420
Your all forgetting VV has been involved since SSA. It's not a rivalry. They have always worked on the portable versions and all the mobile games were made by them. It's not a rivalry at all. Activision uses multiple developers, both in house and out for many of the games they publish. This allows the developers more time to make the games. Good examples are treyarch, infinity ward, and sledgehammer for the COD series. Each year a new one by one of these developers comes out, the next year its the other, then year after the other. They instituted the same development process with Skylander games.



They only worked in SSA 3DS. The others are N-Space and Beenox, Beenox seems to be kind of a sister dev team to VV.
It's a rivalry because they have zero reason to have so many inconstencies between the games for both gameplay and lore. If you're working in the same canon,why don't you follow the same canon except for the very basic facts? I don't recall that being a thing in COD, though to be fair I don't like the franchise.
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Edited 1 time - Last edited at 17:21:59 29/03/2015 by Bifrost
Dark fhoenix Emerald Sparx Gems: 3154
#11 Posted: 17:36:58 29/03/2015
I dont think its a rivalry but more a time saving convenience . It would be very slow to produce new games if only one company was involved .

Of course both companies have their own ideas of how skylander games should be made but i dont feel one is worse then the other . Also they dont want a lawsuit from the other company . Probably those funny changes we find refreshing or annoying could well be copyright issues .

I also imagine they get royalties from the sales of their own products so they would make their own stuff look way better .
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Bifrost Diamond Sparx Gems: 8848
#12 Posted: 17:45:01 29/03/2015
None of them own the IP, Dark fhoenix, Acti does. They can't sue each other over their characters because it's Activision that owns both the teams and the concepts.
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GhostRoaster Yellow Sparx Gems: 1803
#13 Posted: 17:52:50 29/03/2015
I think they both use VV's game system Alchemy, which is a super customized version of a game development platform they bought years ago. What kills me is that they have to develop and keep their own respective IP such as game models for the same characters etc. It would be super awesome of they blended/shared their IP to make the games as consistent as possible. My selfish reasons is because they can work on what can make the game SPECIAL, not work and rework the same stuff year in and out as each developer adds their own roster of characters.

I very much get the distinct feeling (from TfB at least) that they feel like someone else is messing with their baby. I don't get that from the VV camp.
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Bifrost Diamond Sparx Gems: 8848
#14 Posted: 18:05:15 29/03/2015
I can't blame them after what VV did to the Dreadyacht. That thing better stay on Cloudbreak forever. And I mean it when SF just had an overall tone of 'look at me, I'm new things, I changed the old things'; which gets a kid's attention,but when you do that to someone's brainchild they WON'T be happy.
But that doesn't justify acting the same in TT, that's really only going to create a cycle of implied bickering. They need to work together, not to do the same things,but do different things in the same line - if someone's going to say Portal Masters can create muffins from thin air in one game(or the real example, can only appear when there's the need for good),don't throw that out of the window without asking the one that wrote it; discuss if you can,say, add more to it - PMs can only create muffins near Fire areas because baking,that's why it doesn't work in this other area where muffins would be useful. It's the most basic of planning that so many franchises do with different writers, they're not special to do anything less.
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Edited 1 time - Last edited at 18:06:39 29/03/2015 by Bifrost
Boombomb999 Gold Sparx Gems: 2238
#15 Posted: 20:22:26 29/03/2015
One thing I've noticed is that TFB may not be trying to outdo VV so to say but instead I feel that they are making the game the way they feel will be the most enjoyable. Look TFB put in Tessa as a Npc who shows up atleast four times as well as reposing fryno twice (small fry is a repose in my eyes). So in retrospect I feel that it is less of a rivalry and more of TFB trying to "correct" the things they felt were mistakes done by VV. Now if VV decides to take their own spin on the story in the next game and change everything as drastically as they did in SF then I might consider it a rivalry.
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obidawsn Gold Sparx Gems: 2901
#16 Posted: 17:12:06 30/03/2015
TfB and VV do seem to have their own styles, but I don't think it's competition as much as their unique take on it. I, for one, was glad to see Trap Team get back to the style of SSA & Giants. But there's one thing that needs to be considered. Since they are making games simultaneously, they may need to have more communication. You have to think that they probably started work on Trap Team right after Giants. They were probably well into development before Swap Force was finished. This is pretty much like television where different writers take on each episode. However, with TV shows (at least those with a story arch), there's a show runner and all the writers work together to develop where they are headed. I'm not sure Activision has that nor cares.
Swap Force Fan Emerald Sparx Gems: 4046
#17 Posted: 23:07:04 30/03/2015
Don't forget to mention on how small the Swap Force characters are in Trap Team.
Bifrost Diamond Sparx Gems: 8848
#18 Posted: 23:26:24 30/03/2015
Quote: Swap Force Fan
Don't forget to mention on how small the Swap Force characters are in Trap Team.


Model changes probably weren't something they thought much about. The minis are also too big compared to their normal counterparts. Then again, except for Giants the relative sizes change all the time in the games and the additional stuff(Hex goes from being twice as tall as Spyro to a head taller to just half a head all over the series).
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Iganagor Emerald Sparx Gems: 3544
#19 Posted: 23:39:26 30/03/2015
Fryno is the only repose from Swap Force. The is a fact, this is a statement.
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Friendzie Blue Sparx Gems: 611
#20 Posted: 02:56:07 31/03/2015
Quote: Bifrost
It's a rivalry because they have zero reason to have so many inconstencies between the games for both gameplay and lore. If you're working in the same canon,why don't you follow the same canon except for the very basic facts? I don't recall that being a thing in COD, though to be fair I don't like the franchise.


Zero reason? It's two completely different groups of people. That would be reason enough. I'm sure you would make a different Skylanders 5 than I would, and not because of any rivalry.

Quote: Boombomb999
think about it in swap force you had giant chest which counted torwards the chest count for the level


Nope. All the giant chests did was give money, and they had an accolade category associated with them.
GhostRoaster Yellow Sparx Gems: 1803
#21 Posted: 04:16:52 31/03/2015
Quote: Bifrost
I can't blame them after what VV did to the Dreadyacht. That thing better stay on Cloudbreak forever. And I mean it when SF just had an overall tone of 'look at me, I'm new things, I changed the old things'; which gets a kid's attention,but when you do that to someone's brainchild they WON'T be happy.
But that doesn't justify acting the same in TT, that's really only going to create a cycle of implied bickering. They need to work together, not to do the same things,but do different things in the same line - if someone's going to say Portal Masters can create muffins from thin air in one game(or the real example, can only appear when there's the need for good),don't throw that out of the window without asking the one that wrote it; discuss if you can,say, add more to it - PMs can only create muffins near Fire areas because baking,that's why it doesn't work in this other area where muffins would be useful. It's the most basic of planning that so many franchises do with different writers, they're not special to do anything less.


Agreed. I'll take my congratulatory muffin basket now please.
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Bifrost Diamond Sparx Gems: 8848
#22 Posted: 08:59:51 31/03/2015
Quote: Friendzie
Quote: Bifrost
It's a rivalry because they have zero reason to have so many inconstencies between the games for both gameplay and lore. If you're working in the same canon,why don't you follow the same canon except for the very basic facts? I don't recall that being a thing in COD, though to be fair I don't like the franchise.


Zero reason? It's two completely different groups of people. That would be reason enough. I'm sure you would make a different Skylanders 5 than I would, and not because of any rivalry.


It's not reason enough for any other franchise that has competent writing,then. There were games made with half the team in a continent and half in another, they weren't a jumbled mess. Now you have two groups that work in the same state(could be wrong there) if not the same building, and those have the right to bicker to the detriment of the canon?
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All-tempting draught. We'll drink of her again.
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 09:00:28 31/03/2015 by Bifrost
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