darkSpyro

I feel there are some massive misunderstandings from posters on this board thinking Activision is making a bunch of mistakes for this and that reason. Many of these are brought on by folks wanting to fill their individual needs, which is understandable. But much of it wouldn't work as well as many are thinking. Here is a breakdown of the complications that come up for some of the desired items.

WHY DONT THEY RELEASE ALL FIGURES AT THE OUTSET OF THE GAME?

Problems: Factory production, Shelf-space

Subsidiary issues: Completionists, Collectors, Resellers (This effects you, the consumer, not Activision directly)

So, the main issue here are definitely the Factory production lines and storage/shelf space at vendors. It's far easier to have a toy run it's course of the entire desired figure count, versus doing 10%, then 10%, then 10% and so on. The fewer runs the better. This also creates less downtime with the machines since they don't have to switch the castes/re calibrate, letting them produce the entire line faster. (The factories are already producing Wave 1 Trap Team figures to ensure they are ready for release on time)

On the vendors side, trying to manage 90 brand new products coming in (between triples, doubles, singles, the games for different systems) for one game is daunting. Storage, stocking the correct ones (meaning having 18 boxes in the back full of Skylanders and reloading on the right figures and grabbing the ones with few on the shelves) becomes difficult, in particular for baseline employees who don't care. Finding the ones you want becomes tough.

NOW compare this to what already happens. Individuals are buying up local and internet stock and reselling it. The newer figures have traditionally had a price spike (even some of the reposes like Hyper Beam Prism Break) because of this. Without a massive flood of a handful and instead a slow trickle of the entire collection, this gets worse. If toys r us manages to put 3 of each product on the shelves the first day, it's even MORE enticing to scrape the entire shelf into you cart and run off. Personally, I'd kick their cart over and grab what I want, but most of you wouldn't be willing to do that. Completionists wouldn't be looking to take just a handful of items, they'd want of 1/3 of the stock on the shelves. And I can guarantee more completionists will show up then they figures to accommodate them all.

As certain characters become known as the "wanted" characters, more and more people clue into this and scalping gets worse. As the stores shelves are already full of the less popular figures, many stores are slow to order fresh figures. It becomes harder to find one of the shelves over the next months versus easier (Wham-shell, but applied to any figure with decent popularity). Even without reposes this would happen (again, think back to series 1 and the hoards of certain figures on the shelves).

You have an easier time collecting all and any particular figure when they come in waves, and Activisions is able to move more figures in a shorter time worldwide.

ACTIVISION'S GREED RUINS THE COLLECTIBILITY OF THE FIGURES

Reality: if they shortened the runs, you'd have a harder time buying the figures you wanted

Side note: Be patient. The value will go up. It's gonna be in a couple decades, not a couple years

Collectors are miffed that Activision kicks out so many figures their own collections lost value. They reprinted many SSA figures that had a high after market pricetag. In reality, by doing this it makes it less likely that reposes happen, the things the same people upset the value of their figures go down don't want.

This one really is evidence of greed on some collectors as well. You got yours, and if other people don't get theirs, your stock is worth more. So why would you want them rereleased? You don't!! But you aren't fooling those that understand the business. Your personal gain is dictating your opinion to not give others the opportunities to get older characters. I was sad to see Dinorang go down in value right when I was about to sell one in its package. But I can't fault Activision for wanting to make money on something there is a demand for, and then complaining that the kids late to the party got a Dinorang w/o ME being the one making the money.

They are still collectables. Sealed characters still have value. There were so many people buying extras to begin with, it's hurt their value. If people are willing to buy the fresh stock and the factory is still set-up to make Skylanders, you can't fault a company for keeping those machines on. I wander if the factory workers view their "greed" in the same way as the collector? Probably not.

My suggestion for people collecting for the value, buy multiples of the functional reskins (like Granite Crusher) as those are going to Ultimately hold the highest "on average" value in the long run.

NOBODY LIKES THE REPOSES. THEY NEED TO STOP MAKING THEM.

Reality: Individuals don't like reposes or even just ones of the characters they don't like

This one is more understandable then the previous two (in particular the short-sighted nature of complaint one), but as I've stated numerous times across the board, there is no obligation to buy them. I can also understand not wanting a repose in the initial game and getting more perceived bang for your buck, but seeing as those characters tend to be borderline "freebies" ($60 for game $15 for portal) the complaint is still weakened.

The other implication that goes with this is that they'd be able to make more "New" characters if they didn't repose. This couldn't be more false. Giants only had 16 new characters and Swap Force had 32. Why is that? Because VV had twice the time to develop concepts into full-blown characters with tech trees and the whole package. Even then, most melee fighters didn't get combos (arguably to add variety in play styles and make some easier for small children and weaker players) and many of the trees were lackluster. They did have to do double the work on the swappers, but those were shorter paths with lots of statistical innates (just a numbers adjustment, no new art needed).

We see players asking for their favorite characters reposed at this point as well. This is not something unique to Skylanders. CCGs reprint old cards with new art, GI Joe, Barbie, Ninja Turtles, Transformers and all sorts of lines have multiple re-incarnations of the same figures. If the characters are likable, people will buy the reposes to own the "toys". It's not just a playable character. It's a miniature as well, and some folks like the looks of different reposes (I've bought every Prism Break myself). And going back to number 2, it opens up the doors to late entry people who don't feel like they won't be able to grab all the figures. Activision would only be wise to use aftermarket data to see which ones they should repose.

Again, if you don't like them, don't buy them. If enough people skip them, there will be fewer reposes with shorter runs and less inclusion in the multi/battle packs as a result. You have the power to change their strategy by not supporting the parts you don't like/appreciate.

Disclaimer: Certain parts of all arguments have merit. This thread was designed to battle the more uneducated and selfish jabs I've seen. With the exception of the top one, there is some iterations of the debate that have merit, but the "all black and white" view is not accurate as demonstrated above.

Yay another smart person on the forums? Lol thanks for this I think it will really help with some of the people around here that always rant about this stuff.

While I agree with you, I am not sure if this will stop anyone from ranting. Sometimes I think that some people complain just to hear their own voices or, in this case, see their own name attached to words.

Thank you! Another problem I had on the forums. People rant about all of these problems and it just takes up space on the forum which new information could replace. I agree 100% with you, Earth-Dragon.

Tis true, but I've learned a bit of perspective helps reduce complaints to something more valid.

The wave thing, as I've tried to explain, is all about the logistics. Once you understand that they have to do it anyway, you don't fault them as much for trying to it in the most profitable manner. A good portion of their most anticipated characters will come late. Since the factories cause some to come later, you break up what research dictates is more and less popular/anticipated. Someone had to come last, so they pick a character in the upper quarter to hold that final place.

People also forget that this is a line of figures/toys as much as it is a means to provide characters and extra levels to a video game. Action figures have always had different lines within the line and repeat characters (look at any line of transformers and notice all the different figures of Bumblebee or Starscream there will be) and so they treat them like so (LC, Legendary, Reposes). This is nothing new to the toys industry, but since folks have their own agenda, they'll get upset at a company trying to make money and keep people employed.

I agree. Hopefully this will talk some sense into some of the complainers on the forum.

In regards to reposes...my preference of being a completionist goes down when I have to buy the same toy each release. My preference is to have their repose schedule stop abusing the same characters and instead allow consumers use the robust secondary market or even stores themselves where the toys are readily available. My buying habits in the future will reflect the poor value in reposes, so eventually like minded consumers will eventually send the message to corporate. Also, nobody likes the reposes so they need to stop making them

Also, I do not agree with your large assumption that these toys will have any value 20 years down the road. You simply don't know, but I would argue MANY being produced is a recipe to ensure LITTLE TO NO VALUE. I would argue the number of people wanting to recollect their lost youth 20 years from now will have MORE THAN ENOUGH supply--which drives prices down. My advice is that anyone buying these for investment purposes should seriously rethink this.

Other than that, a more or less logical post...which rarely occurs here.

Quote:

ACTIVISION'S GREED RUINS THE COLLECTIBILITY OF THE FIGURES

Reality: if they shortened the runs, you'd have a harder time buying the figures you wanted

Side note: Be patient. The value will go up. It's gonna be in a couple decades, not a couple years

Collectors are miffed that Activision kicks out so many figures their own collections lost value. They reprinted many SSA figures that had a high after market pricetag. In reality, by doing this it makes it less likely that reposes happen, the things the same people upset the value of their figures go down don't want.

This one really is evidence of greed on some collectors as well. You got yours, and if other people don't get theirs, your stock is worth more. So why would you want them rereleased? You don't!! But you aren't fooling those that understand the business. Your personal gain is dictating your opinion to not give others the opportunities to get older characters. I was sad to see Dinorang go down in value right when I was about to sell one in its package. But I can't fault Activision for wanting to make money on something there is a demand for, and then complaining that the kids late to the party got a Dinorang w/o ME being the one making the money.

They are still collectables. Sealed characters still have value. There were so many people buying extras to begin with, it's hurt their value. If people are willing to buy the fresh stock and the factory is still set-up to make Skylanders, you can't fault a company for keeping those machines on. I wander if the factory workers view their "greed" in the same way as the collector? Probably not.

My suggestion for people collecting for the value, buy multiples of the functional reskins (like Granite Crusher) as those are going to Ultimately hold the highest "on average" value in the long run.

I purchase a character for $15 and 18 months later find that if I wanted to resell that character it would be worth no more than $5 tops including shipping if I sold it via an auction site.

You are guessing that perhaps my character - which is not only worth $5 if it's still in its package - might be worth something in a couple of decades time? So if I've purchased a couple of hundred characters and stored them and kept them in mint condition they might appreciate in value to ... well who knows what? But I suspect, given the huge glut of characters on the market, not much.

For me personally, and fully accepting that what I am about to say is absolutely in no way of benefit to Activision, I would have preferred them to keep my initial 32 characters relevant. I would have liked less new characters and a whole lot more game play for my collection. I would like the option of buying expansion packs without the price including a reposed of one of my original figures, regardless of what small percentage of the price could be attributed to that reposed character.

So personally I believe that Activision are at risk of bringing the franchise to a premature end through what I still maintain is greed.

And whilst I agree with much of your supply and demand argument, I can't help but wonder if less reposes taking up resources and shelf space wouldn't have allowed them to release some new figures before people got well and truly bored of the game itself?

Quote: kaosmumishot

Quote:

ACTIVISION'S GREED RUINS THE COLLECTIBILITY OF THE FIGURES

Reality: if they shortened the runs, you'd have a harder time buying the figures you wanted

Side note: Be patient. The value will go up. It's gonna be in a couple decades, not a couple years

Collectors are miffed that Activision kicks out so many figures their own collections lost value. They reprinted many SSA figures that had a high after market pricetag. In reality, by doing this it makes it less likely that reposes happen, the things the same people upset the value of their figures go down don't want.

This one really is evidence of greed on some collectors as well. You got yours, and if other people don't get theirs, your stock is worth more. So why would you want them rereleased? You don't!! But you aren't fooling those that understand the business. Your personal gain is dictating your opinion to not give others the opportunities to get older characters. I was sad to see Dinorang go down in value right when I was about to sell one in its package. But I can't fault Activision for wanting to make money on something there is a demand for, and then complaining that the kids late to the party got a Dinorang w/o ME being the one making the money.

They are still collectables. Sealed characters still have value. There were so many people buying extras to begin with, it's hurt their value. If people are willing to buy the fresh stock and the factory is still set-up to make Skylanders, you can't fault a company for keeping those machines on. I wander if the factory workers view their "greed" in the same way as the collector? Probably not.

My suggestion for people collecting for the value, buy multiples of the functional reskins (like Granite Crusher) as those are going to Ultimately hold the highest "on average" value in the long run.

I purchase a character for $15 and 18 months later find that if I wanted to resell that character it would be worth no more than $5 tops including shipping if I sold it via an auction site.

You are guessing that perhaps my character - which is not only worth $5 if it's still in its package - might be worth something in a couple of decades time? So if I've purchased a couple of hundred characters and stored them and kept them in mint condition they might appreciate in value to ... well who knows what? But I suspect, given the huge glut of characters on the market, not much.

For me personally, and fully accepting that what I am about to say is absolutely in no way of benefit to Activision, I would have preferred them to keep my initial 32 characters relevant. I would have liked less new characters and a whole lot more game play for my collection. I would like the option of buying expansion packs without the price including a reposed of one of my original figures, regardless of what small percentage of the price could be attributed to that reposed character.

So personally I believe that Activision are at risk of bringing the franchise to a premature end through what I still maintain is greed.

And whilst I agree with much of your supply and demand argument, I can't help but wonder if less reposes taking up resources and shelf space wouldn't have allowed them to release some new figures before people got well and truly bored of the game itself?

But there is hypocrisy in your post. Your upset that the value of your figure went down because you planned to resell it. Go dig through the first game forum. "Why did they make so-so this hard to find". "I hate evil bay!!". "Why didn't they make more figures?

So to those fans Activision was doing what they asked, make larger runs. People claimed to write letters and make phone calls to increase distribution as they were having to pay $30 to get a Wham-shell due to scalping.

Deal with scalping, or deal with initial over-saturation. This happened with Magic cards. They pushed out too much, but eventually dialed it back, and with the older sets available at cheap prices, people chipped away at the stock. If they look at the numbers and there is too many 2nd and higher series lying around on the shelves, they'll dial back the run and value will slowly return as the game becomes super cheap for awhile to stock your collection with the older figs. (Disregard alpha and beta prices in this comparison. This is more in reference to Fallen Empires and Ice Age. Sealed packs eventually became rare and increased in value).

If you want to protect the value of the figs (and get more mileage out of them) I suggest buying the game but few if any reposes. And don't treat the characters as an investment. That's the main unspoken factor that ruined the housing market: people treating their personal home as an investment versus a place to live. It works when a few do it, but it collapses when everyone does it.

Quote:

But there is hypocrisy in your post. Your upset that the value of your figure went down because you planned to resell it. Go dig through the first game forum. "Why did they make so-so this hard to find". "I hate evil bay!!". "Why didn't they make more figures?

Sorry I think I am missing your point, it seems as if you're saying my post is in some ways hypocritical because some other people made some comments about figures from S:SA. I say seems because I am sure that's not what you were meaning.

Aside from missing your point, which I hope you will clear up, I should point out that am not a collector. I have a few variants still in their original packaging which I had intended to use at some point, but I have so many unused figures now there barely seems any point. I was trying to point out that value of my used characters had depreciated significantly in the event that I might have wanted to sell them. Not because I purchased them to try and profit from them. And it's not only their dollar value that has dropped, but their value to me in terms of game play. I originally purchased all 32 S:SA characters believing they would have other games to be used in and yes they can be used in every other game, but many of them are weakened (nurfed I think the term is) in the more recent games.

So now I have a big collection of Skylanders which I don't need from a game play point of view (I only need one or two figures to defeat Kaos and only a handful to get 100% completion on any game), but they are not worth anything if I went to sell them.

So I begrudge spending any more money on Skylanders. I think Trap Team looks good, but being forced to buy more and more characters to access all parts of the game is just plain wrong in my opinion. Surely for the thousands I have spent on characters I should be able to access everything without needing to spend hundreds more?

But that is inaccurate.

To access 100% of SSA, all you needed was the box game and 5 extra characters.

To access 100% of SG, all you needed was the box game if you purchased above.

To access 100% of SSF, all you needed was 6 swappers past the base game. And you don't actually need one from each element to unlock the double gates. A second player can unlock the double gates.

That's hardly the daunting task or investment people make it out to be. They themselves just end up wanting to purchase all the figures. To get more bang for your buck, Adventure packs are a good place to go from there. Again your choice and no different from downloadable content. It's just packaged differently.

It shouldn't matter if there is any after market value at this stage. That is the point you're missing. These aren't beany babies. They'd be hurting their own franchise if they didn't attempt to make a characters reasonably available. Individuals reselling the characters shouldn't be a concern for Activision. If they have high "secondary market" value, that is an indicator that the demand is higher then the supply. You are effectively faulting a company for trying to fix that because you personal figures now aren't worth as much. Thus your greed is influencing you opinion and then you call the company greedy. Whether your intent was to sell them or not is moot. Once you gripe about depleted monetary value and then gripe about THEIR greed, it's hypocritical by default. (May I also add that "green base" figures were given value in Swap Force while their Series 2 figures didn't provide any special achievement. But this was also not an achievement anywhere vital to gameplay, just an incentive to keep green base characters around to get bonuses in the future)

Did they over saturate? It seems like it. That is a fair argument at this point. They under did it during SSA, and now they are over doing it. The good money is they'll scale back and if they don't they deserve the criticism.

My two cents:

a) I really appreciate Earth-Dragon's initial post and think it makes a lot of great comments regarding how/why we see figures come out the way they do. There is a lot of business sense to what goes on that (like it or not) is not designed to appease collectors/completionists....generally, the minority of the purchasing crowd.

b) I think kaosmumishot is trying to bring in a different angle to the conversation beyond the 'logistics' aspect that I think was addressed in the original post. Regardless of whether Activision is handling the logistics perfectly, it is very fair to argue whether or not they are making choices that could be alienating the majority of your fanbase and bringing a long-term product to an early end.
I think this is a different discussion than this thread started with, BUT...I think the big theme we can take from Earth-Dragon's post is that the ultra-gamer/collector/completionist viewpoint on what Activision is doing to the game, may not be as relevant as how the average kid/family views the game.

Many times, I think our discussion on this forum will tend to come from the same 'uber-fan' perspective.

Eehh. There is truth in the initial post, but some aspects still have a bit more dialog that needs to be involved.

1. Waves make perfect sense. They would be idiots to release all the figures early on, for one reason, if a figure just plain sucks, it will sit on the shelf until Donald Sterling can go to a Clipper's game. Second reason is their production cost. The BIGGEST reason though is maintaining sales. If they released everything at the get go - then people would hit their budget first week, tire out of the game, and it wouldn't be heard from again until the next game. Prime example - look at Disney Infinity. sure they had 2 big 'waves' and then a third 'mini' wave, but frankly, with the size of Wave 1, few cared about Wave 2 (which is why that is when the heavy hitters were set to hit - Mickey, Toy Story, Frozen. etc). As it is now, I've found myself checking the TRU ads constantly, or going into Toy stores regularly to see what's out. Every time I go, I feel more inclined to get something. Find out a wave is coming out and that interest you had that died down comes back. So it's not only cheaper for them to do waves, but they get more sales as well. Oh yeah it also gives them time to react to the reception of certain characters and the game in general.

2. Truth? The figures that should be collectible, ARE. Just because 'Ninjini' was hard to find, doesnt mean she was meant to maintain a value twice that of other figures. Just because Barkley was a Wii exclusive character doesn't make him more valuable, especially since that ws apparently the highest selling copy. Flocked Prism Break though? That's actually meant to be collectible. Flocked Spring Time Trigger Happy is meant to be collectible. As a retired reseller, part of why I got out of it was looking at trends, few characters maintain their value. Ghost Roaster's value has actually plummeted. Boomer plummeted. WhamShell got re-released and I anticipate that at LEAST similar to Dinorang, Ghost Roaster and Boomer will get some level of release by Skylander 5. On top of it, you have reposes that pack additional features. It's just meant to be a game. If you want to make money, you have to work for it.

3, Reposes. I've talked about them numerous times. Those ARE a problem. THOSE sit on the shelves and take up retail space. Those cost JUST AS MUCH MONEY to make as the new figures. My TRU has a full wall of Skylander stuff from all 3 entries. I'd wager that 60% of the space is reposes from either Giants or SF. They just don't serve enough of a purpose in the current form to be manufactured at such a high slip. They will never go away and shouldn't go away, part of their strategy is to move forward, bringing in new blood instead of focusing on old blood. It makes sense to have them, but if a place like TRU is going to have ...

ALL on the shelf at the same time? It's wasted space if they are all virtually identical. A wow-pow isn't not good enough. They need to develop truly different play-styles for the reposes. S4 Gill Grunt should get access to a third pathway. S4 Spyro, instead of the standard fireball blast, give him the spread out fire 'blast' from the first Spyro game. But they need to do SOMETHING to make them actually unique characters. I know they don't pay much to make each figure, but the stacks of left over reposes can't be a good look.
- Unreall

Quote: GhostRoaster

In regards to reposes...my preference of being a completionist goes down when I have to buy the same toy each release. My preference is to have their repose schedule stop abusing the same characters and instead allow consumers use the robust secondary market or even stores themselves where the toys are readily available. My buying habits in the future will reflect the poor value in reposes, so eventually like minded consumers will eventually send the message to corporate. Also, nobody likes the reposes so they need to stop making them

Also, I do not agree with your large assumption that these toys will have any value 20 years down the road. You simply don't know, but I would argue MANY being produced is a recipe to ensure LITTLE TO NO VALUE. I would argue the number of people wanting to recollect their lost youth 20 years from now will have MORE THAN ENOUGH supply--which drives prices down. My advice is that anyone buying these for investment purposes should seriously rethink this.

Other than that, a more or less logical post...which rarely occurs here.

Reposes exist for two main reasons. To sell to the completionists and to "catch up" the newcomers. At this point there is ample stuff for newcomers to sink their teeth into, they don't need to keep updating Gil Grunt just for them.

Reposes end up driving away collectors after a certain point. You just start looking at your 6th Eruptor and the decision makes itself for you. Keeping collectors wanting them all is a precarious balance, you want enough that you can maximize profit, but not so many that they start feeling like there are too many to get in order to "complete it". Because once you break them of the desire to get them all, they don't just buy one or two less, they start marking whole lines off their list - like ALL lightcores, ALL reposes, ALL variants, etc.

And I completely agree with GhostRoaster on value. If you are "investing" in Skylanders for profit, give up right now. Collectibles in general go up in value due to rarity. There are far too many of these things out there, and a whole bunch of parents would have to throw them in the garbage to make them rare. That's why comic books are rare, how many Action Comics #1 got thrown into the garbage or used for fireplace kindling by parents after the kids grew older? Coins become rare because the mint takes them out of circulation, same with stamps. There is no factor that will greatly decrease the number of Skylanders out there now. Too many people realize the perceived value of collectible toys.

You'll notice I've established that "no reposes are wanted by anyone" was the thing I was squashing. Wanting less or smaller runs is reasonable as said that part this was to get people to refine the arguments. Part of this was to get people to be more constructive and to knock off the "My investment went down" sort of one sided criticisms.

Also the thought you'd get 60 new characters if there were no reposes is an absolute falsehood. They are able to do a repose/reskins with a small fraction of the programming and design cost and time as a brand new toon altogether. It's rather telling that Giants had 16 new characters while Swap Force had 32 when twice the time was available.

I'll also point out that were a smaller amount of reposes both numbers wise and percentage wise when there were two years to make a new game versus one. So they did, in fact, scale back from Giants to Swap Force. So they are going in the right direction and I hope they keep at it.

Quote: kaosmumishot

Quote:

ACTIVISION'S GREED RUINS THE COLLECTIBILITY OF THE FIGURES

Reality: if they shortened the runs, you'd have a harder time buying the figures you wanted

Side note: Be patient. The value will go up. It's gonna be in a couple decades, not a couple years

Collectors are miffed that Activision kicks out so many figures their own collections lost value. They reprinted many SSA figures that had a high after market pricetag. In reality, by doing this it makes it less likely that reposes happen, the things the same people upset the value of their figures go down don't want.

This one really is evidence of greed on some collectors as well. You got yours, and if other people don't get theirs, your stock is worth more. So why would you want them rereleased? You don't!! But you aren't fooling those that understand the business. Your personal gain is dictating your opinion to not give others the opportunities to get older characters. I was sad to see Dinorang go down in value right when I was about to sell one in its package. But I can't fault Activision for wanting to make money on something there is a demand for, and then complaining that the kids late to the party got a Dinorang w/o ME being the one making the money.

They are still collectables. Sealed characters still have value. There were so many people buying extras to begin with, it's hurt their value. If people are willing to buy the fresh stock and the factory is still set-up to make Skylanders, you can't fault a company for keeping those machines on. I wander if the factory workers view their "greed" in the same way as the collector? Probably not.

My suggestion for people collecting for the value, buy multiples of the functional reskins (like Granite Crusher) as those are going to Ultimately hold the highest "on average" value in the long run.

I purchase a character for $15 and 18 months later find that if I wanted to resell that character it would be worth no more than $5 tops including shipping if I sold it via an auction site.

You are guessing that perhaps my character - which is not only worth $5 if it's still in its package - might be worth something in a couple of decades time? So if I've purchased a couple of hundred characters and stored them and kept them in mint condition they might appreciate in value to ... well who knows what? But I suspect, given the huge glut of characters on the market, not much.

For me personally, and fully accepting that what I am about to say is absolutely in no way of benefit to Activision, I would have preferred them to keep my initial 32 characters relevant. I would have liked less new characters and a whole lot more game play for my collection. I would like the option of buying expansion packs without the price including a reposed of one of my original figures, regardless of what small percentage of the price could be attributed to that reposed character.

So personally I believe that Activision are at risk of bringing the franchise to a premature end through what I still maintain is greed.

And whilst I agree with much of your supply and demand argument, I can't help but wonder if less reposes taking up resources and shelf space wouldn't have allowed them to release some new figures before people got well and truly bored of the game itself?

I've always been of the mindset, I'm not going to deprive my son of any character he wants just so I have a sealed in box package that may or may not be worth 2x what I paid for it in 20 years. I have Star Wars original toys from the 70's and 80's that if they were still in the box would be worth big $$$, but you know what, I got the toys back then to play with. What's the fun of just staring at a box. I'm not destitute, but Skylanders is kinda expensive but IF I can afford $15/wk to add to my son's (and mine) collection, then I will, but I'm going to use the characters the way they were meant to be used, in the game, out of the box and if my son wants to play with the figure and his Hot Wheels, then who am I to say no. He knows not to be rough with them or they won't work in the game and we've told him that if he breaks one because he mistreated it, then he's just going to have to do without that character.

I personally don't mind the staggered roll outs of the characters because in most cases it gives you a chance to take a break from "gotta have XYZ", and enjoy the game. Then when a new character is released it gives you a chance to revisit the game with a fresh perspective while you learn the nuances of the new character(s).

Nobody should expect Skylanders to have any value in 20 years or whatever.

Things are valuable because nobody looked after them/kept them.

Since the boom of early toys value EVERYBODY "collects" and keeps them packaged. Virtually no toy past the mid to late 80's will hold any value unless it's an unexpected thing that people didn't keep.

This happened with comics. Look how many "collectors" comics came out in the 90's and look up their value now. £35 comics selling for 25p or not at all. There are just too many and they are all in perfect condition!

Buy the toy. Open the toy, play with the toy. Enjoy the toy and/or the time with your child(ren). Don't expect it to be an investment. If you want that buy gold or property. Gamble with shares or Bitcoin, but not toys.

Yep, I bought a copy of the "Superman dies" comic back in the 90s. I was picking up my roommates' weekly comics for him and it was when it came out. There was a line and every single person in line was buying the comic and a poly bag along with it. I bought the comic because I wanted to read it, but I knew then and there collecting new comics wasn't a good investment.

Recently a decent quality Action Comics #1 (first Superman) was found inside the wall of a house being renovated. It was being used for insulation! That's why it is valuable, because the number of good quality copies is incredibly small. That line I was in at the comic store had about 100 copies of that "Superman dies" comic that were going to be kept in "mint" condition at that ONE store alone. According to Wikipedia maybe 50-100 TOTAL copies of Action Comics #1 still exist, in varying quality (including being crumpled in a wall).

^ I heard about that. It was a rag copy, and from what I understand someone ripped it out of his hands which helped decrease value. Condition matters! There's only one NM copy of that book. Compare that to the hundreds of NM Hulk 181 which is the Wolverine's first appearance.

Quote: Pyrofer

Nobody should expect Skylanders to have any value in 20 years or whatever.

Things are valuable because nobody looked after them/kept them.

Since the boom of early toys value EVERYBODY "collects" and keeps them packaged. Virtually no toy past the mid to late 80's will hold any value unless it's an unexpected thing that people didn't keep.

This happened with comics. Look how many "collectors" comics came out in the 90's and look up their value now. £35 comics selling for 25p or not at all. There are just too many and they are all in perfect condition!

Buy the toy. Open the toy, play with the toy. Enjoy the toy and/or the time with your child(ren). Don't expect it to be an investment. If you want that buy gold or property. Gamble with shares or Bitcoin, but not toys.

Great point. Only comics until 1970 or so are truly rare enough to be "collectible"...there was a tremendous boom in circulation counts that degrades the collectible nature. You know the gig is up when publishers start sending out an issue with "5 FOIL based covers" to get increased sales as they did in the 90s on.

As you pointed out, toys followed suit in the 80s. Five star post in accuracy.

Here it is, there is even an image of the $75,000 rip:

http://robot6.comicbookresourc...lls-for-175000/

wow.

Losing $75k because you argue over a comic.. Still, it's not like they didn't get plenty for it!

That house sounds like a good investment

Wait a minute, they paid HOW MUCH FOR A HOUSE????

You can't buy a window for that in London

Comics also have something called the "trade paperback" that hurts their value. They are effectively printed twice these days.

But to all those that hate it, trade paperbacks are the other thing I've bought for years, and wouldn't purchase books without them. So it is what it is.

Quote: Pyrofer

Nobody should expect Skylanders to have any value in 20 years or whatever.

Things are valuable because nobody looked after them/kept them.

Since the boom of early toys value EVERYBODY "collects" and keeps them packaged. Virtually no toy past the mid to late 80's will hold any value unless it's an unexpected thing that people didn't keep.

This happened with comics. Look how many "collectors" comics came out in the 90's and look up their value now. £35 comics selling for 25p or not at all. There are just too many and they are all in perfect condition!

Buy the toy. Open the toy, play with the toy. Enjoy the toy and/or the time with your child(ren). Don't expect it to be an investment. If you want that buy gold or property. Gamble with shares or Bitcoin, but not toys.

This. I've been in the comic, gaming, and action figure business for years. We have so so many people bringing in "old" stuff expecting we'll buy it for a mint. You feel really bad sometimes. Like Pyrofer said, the stuff that worth money is the stuff people thought of as throw away things. Stuff like Skylanders, or variant covers of #1 issues of comics do go for much for long now because that attitude has changed. Only the really rare stuff (like employee figures) is likely to be worth much later. I collect tons of stuff, but I've long since learned that if something is billed as collectible then don't think of it as worth anything except a thing you enjoy. If you're wrong and it ends up worth something, that's awesome. If not, worst case scenario you own stuff you like.

Lot's of people would come into the comic shop for variant covers and #1 issues and anything particularly hot. They fell into three groups, people interested in the story or the art (aka comic fans), scalpers that put them instantly on ebay and people who bought them purely to sell down the road and were usually disappointed when they were worth maybe cover price a year later.

I have a massive comic collection, all pretty much worthless 90's stuff. However, I never bought a comic I didn't like and I READ every single one of them.

The key is to enjoy them and feel you get value for money when you buy them. Anything else is a bonus.
I avoid variants pretty much for this reason. I have a couple of store exclusives but that's it.

Only one I REALLY want is S1 Flocked Stump Smash, who I think looks amazing

Yeah, I had never thought of it like you guys described it, but I do agree with it with regards to why things don't grow in value. And when things do spike in value - its due to demand, and ultimately, drops to pennies once the market corrects for it (look at furbees or N64 or tickle me elmo).

I've always felt that if you plan on trying to 'invest' in something, then you invest in it. Buying a figure and leaving it in the box isn't investing., it's just trying to not take a loss. If you want to invest, you buy MULTIPLES. As well, if you want to invest in something, do your homework. It's almost hilarious to me when I would get on eBay and see people who obviously thought the value would skyrocket and are now trying to move their all in box collection. Me? I invested. But I just bought lots and sold it as pieces. But I have no disillusion that I can whoop out Ghost Roaster 2 years from now and its going to be worth more than it's worth now.

As for comics, no no no. Keeping things 'mint' is not why the value plummeted. It's because the major players tried to milk the market with 'variants' if you will.


It just became rampant, special covers to jack up prices...companies forcefully trying to raise the resale value of their comics. When Superman died - Superman #75, and came back, DC did everything they could to make it a collector's item. I remember, rebirth I think it was - was glow in the dark in a second wrap along with a momento card and a harder stock to make it sturdier. It also had a premium attached to it. Doing all that slowly but surely crashed the value, you'd walk into a comic store and the entire front shelf was 'reflective' or glow in the dark. :smh:
- Unreall

Quote: Unreallystic

As for comics, no no no. Keeping things 'mint' is not why the value plummeted. It's because the major players tried to milk the market with 'variants' if you will.

It just became rampant, special covers to jack up prices...companies forcefully trying to raise the resale value of their comics. When Superman died - Superman #75, and came back, DC did everything they could to make it a collector's item. I remember, rebirth I think it was - was glow in the dark in a second wrap along with a momento card and a harder stock to make it sturdier. It also had a premium attached to it. Doing all that slowly but surely crashed the value, you'd walk into a comic store and the entire front shelf was 'reflective' or glow in the dark. :smh:

You're describing the comics crash. Certainly that's what caused the crash. But I'm taking about the Golden and Silver age books, especially Golden, vs Bronze/Modern age. Those are worth the big bucks because people usually threw them away, like a newspaper. Same thing with older baseball cards (tobacco card). They weren't thought of as collectibles at first so people didn't preserve them and now they are rare. But now they don't generally get thrown away. People keep them or sell them or maybe give them away. There are tons of people keeping tucking their comics away bagged and boarded inside comic boxes. Too many are printed, saved, and kept in good condition for them to ever be worth as much as the Golden and Silver age stuff. If they had never gone crazy with all the silly cover nonsense those books would still not be worth much. But yeah, all that nonsense (and the buying of multiple copies that went with it) just flooded the market and made sure the books would be worth next to nothing. You're lucky if you move some of that stuff in the 50 cent bins now. Ugh.

Not just the quantity of prints of each comic, but the total quantity of comics. They flooded the market, new titles every couple of weeks.

This is the same situation with toys. Back in the day they were expensive and rare (relative to today). Now every kid has so many toys you can bin a bucket full and they don't notice.

Just the sheer quantity of toys in general let alone Skylanders means there won't be as much call for them in later years. Will our kids get a nostalgia kick at 30 and want to re-buy their Skylanders? YES, will it be hard? No.
So prices will stay low.

Quote: Earth-Dragon

Comics also have something called the "trade paperback" that hurts their value. They are effectively printed twice these days.

But to all those that hate it, trade paperbacks are the other thing I've bought for years, and wouldn't purchase books without them. So it is what it is.

Don't forget ComiXology and digital format. That will ultimately kill the medium. EDIT: Maybe not...!!!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/br...xology-outrage/

Didn't know I had comic connoisseurs in my mist. I'm impressed

Even though print lows are DRASTICALLY lower than in the heyday, people know how to keep them safe...and the printing process is significantly better. No more cheap newprint with questionable printing processes. Print runs of 15,000 versus HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS is quite a difference.

Quote: wombatandchips

Quote: Unreallystic

As for comics, no no no. Keeping things 'mint' is not why the value plummeted. It's because the major players tried to milk the market with 'variants' if you will.

It just became rampant, special covers to jack up prices...companies forcefully trying to raise the resale value of their comics. When Superman died - Superman #75, and came back, DC did everything they could to make it a collector's item. I remember, rebirth I think it was - was glow in the dark in a second wrap along with a momento card and a harder stock to make it sturdier. It also had a premium attached to it. Doing all that slowly but surely crashed the value, you'd walk into a comic store and the entire front shelf was 'reflective' or glow in the dark. :smh:

You're describing the comics crash. Certainly that's what caused the crash. But I'm taking about the Golden and Silver age books, especially Golden, vs Bronze/Modern age. Those are worth the big bucks because people usually threw them away, like a newspaper. Same thing with older baseball cards (tobacco card). They weren't thought of as collectibles at first so people didn't preserve them and now they are rare. But now they don't generally get thrown away. People keep them or sell them or maybe give them away. There are tons of people keeping tucking their comics away bagged and boarded inside comic boxes. Too many are printed, saved, and kept in good condition for them to ever be worth as much as the Golden and Silver age stuff. If they had never gone crazy with all the silly cover nonsense those books would still not be worth much. But yeah, all that nonsense (and the buying of multiple copies that went with it) just flooded the market and made sure the books would be worth next to nothing. You're lucky if you move some of that stuff in the 50 cent bins now. Ugh.

Ah I misunderstood what you were getting at. Yeah, from my comic collecting days, there was a gap in around the 80s where things stop being worth anything.
- Unreall

Quote: GhostRoaster

Don't forget ComiXology and digital format. That will ultimately kill the medium. EDIT: Maybe not...!!!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/br...xology-outrage/

Didn't know I had comic connoisseurs in my mist. I'm impressed

Even though print lows are DRASTICALLY lower than in the heyday, people know how to keep them safe...and the printing process is significantly better. No more cheap newprint with questionable printing processes. Print runs of 15,000 versus HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS is quite a difference.

I'm not a connoisseur, but I am a fan. I forgot to tell you GR, but a couple good friends of mine are big into the comics business. One is an inker that has done everything from Spider-man to X-Men to Batman over the years. His name is listed on the 700th Spider-man issue cover last year that had the names of all the contributors over time, right under Stan Lee. The other does Doctor Who comics and some other really awesome stuff. Both are in my Facebook friends list, they have had some really cool stuff that comes up on my News Feed over time. I love seeing what they have done.

Quote: GhostRoaster

Quote: Earth-Dragon

Comics also have something called the "trade paperback" that hurts their value. They are effectively printed twice these days.

But to all those that hate it, trade paperbacks are the other thing I've bought for years, and wouldn't purchase books without them. So it is what it is.

Don't forget ComiXology and digital format. That will ultimately kill the medium. EDIT: Maybe not...!!!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/br...xology-outrage/

Didn't know I had comic connoisseurs in my mist. I'm impressed

Even though print lows are DRASTICALLY lower than in the heyday, people know how to keep them safe...and the printing process is significantly better. No more cheap newprint with questionable printing processes. Print runs of 15,000 versus HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS is quite a difference.

You mean no more Green Hulks that are supposed to look grey, but the editors think the green one look better so they make him green permanently sort of stuff occurring? But it helped innovation