darkSpyro

After the failure of my Alabaman Cousin Loving (ACL) thread, I have a new hot topic for darkSpyro.net.
Should prisons focus on punishment or rehabilitation? Does it depend on the crime committed? Are some people unrehabilitable?

i think we should allow the inmates to 1v1 me in a mud wrestling match and if i win i get to hit them with a really hard stick until they feel bad about what they did

Prison tries to help people to become better people -> person has some ground to stand on after prison time and it's their choice to make that count or not, excluding societal ostracism -> big chance of true rehabilitation

Prison is just slavery and torture with set dressing -> machine to make mentally unstable people who can't hold down a job for no fault of their own (most of the time) after prison time, including or excluding societal ostracism -> tiny tiny chance of true rehabilitation

it's uhh not a hard choice

Quote: Bifrost

Prison tries to help people to become better people -> person has some ground to stand on after prison time and it's their choice to make that count or not, excluding societal ostracism -> big chance of true rehabilitation

Prison is just slavery and torture with set dressing -> machine to make mentally unstable people who can't hold down a job for no fault of their own (most of the time) after prison time, including or excluding societal ostracism -> tiny tiny chance of true rehabilitation

it's uhh not a hard choice

just to play devil's advocate, what if they're serving a life sentence, so there's no after prison time to consider?

I think the factor that most people forget is the prisoners opinion on this matter. Like do they want to be changed? There programs in prison that let prisoners get degrees but the type of people in prison can differ so much that it's pretty mixed on who does it.

From an American point of view having a felony pretty much limits the amount jobs possible to get. Like sure you can have an education and be a member of society but having that felony charge is gonna prevent you from working most office jobs.

Quote: Bifrost

Prison tries to help people to become better people -> person has some ground to stand on after prison time and it's their choice to make that count or not, excluding societal ostracism -> big chance of true rehabilitation

Prison is just slavery and torture with set dressing -> machine to make mentally unstable people who can't hold down a job for no fault of their own (most of the time) after prison time, including or excluding societal ostracism -> tiny tiny chance of true rehabilitation

it's uhh not a hard choice

^^^^so much of this

Quote: YesterdayFemmey

Quote: Bifrost

Prison tries to help people to become better people -> person has some ground to stand on after prison time and it's their choice to make that count or not, excluding societal ostracism -> big chance of true rehabilitation

Prison is just slavery and torture with set dressing -> machine to make mentally unstable people who can't hold down a job for no fault of their own (most of the time) after prison time, including or excluding societal ostracism -> tiny tiny chance of true rehabilitation

it's uhh not a hard choice

just to play devil's advocate, what if they're serving a life sentence, so there's no after prison time to consider?

my answer to this is you can be somewhat of a useful person these days from prison so even if you are serving a life sentence if we can convert these people to the good side to honorable jedi they could still make worth what they have of the life they are now left with

my thing comes up when i feel a relentless spite toward the person they committed such heinous horrible acts i feel like i want to throttle them just for existing if i try to remove my emotion from it i suppose having them rehabilitated is better than having them remain a psychopath... that said i do believe there are people who are beyond help they dont want help and you cannot give it to them and the idea of a serial killer or other serial criminals of high crime mass murderers terrorists and people like that not getting punished is... jarring to me... but given the option to punish everyone the same including the guy who got locked up for having a little too much marijuana in his pocket on the way home versus just trying to rehabilitate everyone despite the evil... i would hope i could pick the latter its tough for me specifically as i imagine it would be with some others

Quote: somePerson

I think the factor that most people forget is the prisoners opinion on this matter. Like do they want to be changed? There programs in prison that let prisoners get degrees but the type of people in prison can differ so much that it's pretty mixed on who does it.

From an American point of view having a felony pretty much limits the amount jobs possible to get. Like sure you can have an education and be a member of society but having that felony charge is gonna prevent you from working most office jobs.

thats the problem with felony charges is how they stick to you and effect you i am highly against that uh... you served your time right? like everyone else what come with a felony is already bigger and badder charges so why tack on making life harder for them if they are in fact released and supposedly rehabilitated it doesnt make sense to me because if the thought upon releasing them is that they are still some kind of threat why would you release them

genuine question. i know a lot of people here are uncomfortable with associating with pedos. are you able to work with former pedos or murderers? a lot of people on the internet get sick from drawn child porn so what's gonna happen when they work with a registered sex offender?

i think that rehabilitation is a great idea but there is a huge risk for the employer when hiring someone with a felony charge. but it's kind of a screwed situation because nothing stopping them from going back to their former life when they cant get a job.

^ no i could not do it so that may be a problem on my part i couldnt do it with any you listed or sexual violence it would not happen for me ...i could potentially be the one in the wrong though if they are supposed to be rehabilitated the only thing i can say is the charges for these crimes are not as high as they should be in most cases and we dont currently live in a world where i believe prison is rehabilitating people like that so maybe in a different reality i would think differently but i couldnt say for certain

Quote: somePerson

genuine question. i know a lot of people here are uncomfortable with associating with pedos. are you able to work with former pedos or murderers? a lot of people on the internet get sick from drawn child porn so what's gonna happen when they work with a registered sex offender?

i think that rehabilitation is a great idea but there is a huge risk for the employer when hiring someone with a felony charge. but it's kind of a screwed situation because nothing stopping them from going back to their former life when they cant get a job.

I wanted to comment on this topic but was having a hard time wording it, but I feel I can get my point across just replying to this question ya raised...

I 100% believe that people can change... some people.

If you are disgusting enough to be a pedophile to begin with, I have a really hard time imagining a person like that changing. Some people say that pedophilia is actually a genetic thing or whatever (I don't know if I believe that necessarily, that's a whole 'nother topic), but that could in turn make the situation even worse, because it's literally a part of you, therefore you can't change it. I think most people might look at it that way, but I might even be more put off if it's not genetic, and you're just a piece of **** who targets children for no reason. Like, I can't even imagine being in the same room as someone like that no matter how much they say they changed. Like, seriously, what level of insanity does it take for you to get there?

With all of that being said, the actual situation depends more on who the person actually is. I can make up scenarios in my head all I want, but if it's not a real person that I don't personally know, there's no way of me knowing exactly how I would react to someone who was a completely piece of **** (and the prison system, law, etc.,) claiming that they're a changed person and ready to walk the earth like anyone else. And I'm saying that meaning I don't know if my opinion would be "better" or "worse" than what I'm saying right now.

In other words, I would really need to know them to form a proper opinion on if I think that they're changed or not, and if I would feel comfortable working with them or not. I have been on both ends before, although not dealing with topics as heavy as this one, so I can't just say it one way or the other if I'm not actually in the situation.

If I believed rehabilitation was possible for everybody, then sure, absolutely, why not just rehabilitate everybody? Don't punish them eternally for something that they can overcome. But it's not possible for everybody, and everybody knows that, even if it's just because some people don't want to be rehabilitated. They don't regret what they've done, they would do it again, they want to do it again, all of the above. People like that should just rot in prison (and hell) for the rest of their lives, also given what they did was something inexcusably horrible and not just something irrelevant to mankind like having one bag of weed in their trunk that their cousin accidentally left there.

Quote: YesterdayFemmey

just to play devil's advocate, what if they're serving a life sentence, so there's no after prison time to consider?

My answer is actually "don't have a life sentence" tbh. One of the few things I kind of approve in Brazil's justice system is that no sentence goes above 30, and the rest of the person's life is house arrest or nothing.

As for all the questions of "what if it's a big bad criminal" or "what if they don't want rehab"... I covered it in the first post. There's a CHOICE and a CHANCE. I'd rather the system try and fail sometimes, but also suceed sometimes, than fail everyone always.
like how many people in prison are the americans' favorite what-if-evil-pedo-murderer-sociopath, and how many got arrested for smoking the devil's lettuce, being poc in the wrong place, or both

Quote: Bifrost

Quote: YesterdayFemmey

just to play devil's advocate, what if they're serving a life sentence, so there's no after prison time to consider?

My answer is actually "don't have a life sentence" tbh. One of the few things I kind of approve in Brazil's justice system is that no sentence goes above 30, and the rest of the person's life is house arrest or nothing.

As for all the questions of "what if it's a big bad criminal" or "what if they don't want rehab"... I covered it in the first post. There's a CHOICE and a CHANCE. I'd rather the system try and fail sometimes, but also suceed sometimes, than fail everyone always.
like how many people in prison are the americans' favorite what-if-evil-pedo-murderer-sociopath, and how many got arrested for smoking the devil's lettuce, being poc in the wrong place, or both

i think they should fight to the death in single combat to see if they get a life sentence reduced. a life for a life. then we should put them in the military

Quote: Bifrost

As for all the questions of "what if it's a big bad criminal" or "what if they don't want rehab"... I covered it in the first post. There's a CHOICE and a CHANCE. I'd rather the system try and fail sometimes, but also suceed sometimes, than fail everyone always.

I can't imagine they would make a system like this without giving EVERYONE a chance. "The serial killer said he didn't want help? Well, you heard him, Larry, give 'im the death sentence!" I mean... with the way the justice system is right now, I can imagine that, but if we got to the point of prisons working on rehabilitation to begin with, then I think no matter what, they would try to rehabilitate everyone, it just most certainly would not work on everyone, and they would essentially end up spending the rest of their lives in prison anyways.

That'd probably happen, but again, I'd rather it try and fail, than just go, you smoked weed, spend 5 years in horrible conditions working for the government and then lose any job opportunities once you're out lmao
It's the donation argument imho. If I have some to spare, I'd rather donate even if there's a chance it's a scam (but not donate to anyone regardless of red flags ofc), because if I refuse, there's a chance I let someone starve.

^yeah im definitely vibin with this donation argument is a pretty good comparison i think too