darkSpyro

Obesity poses health risks. The health risks suck up billions of dollars worth of healthcare resources, which is bad. Here's the problem.

1) There's a genetic component to appetite and metabolism. You can be an incredibly fit individual and still be considered "fat" by medical personnel and everyday people. If you have the wrong combination of genes, becoming an "acceptable weight" is extraordinarily difficult. And the average person can't look at someone who's overweight and say, "Oh, it's not their fault. It's their genes." This can even apply to morbidly obese individuals at times (see: familial hypercholesterolemia).
2) Socioeconomic factors. Healthy foods are expensive. Someone trying to make ends meet may not have the time to sit there and prepare a healthy food. You can't write prescriptions for mandatory time to exercise and prepare meals.

There's more than just health problems for an individual but us citizens as well. The medical cost is about 200 billion tax dollars and obese workers are more likely to work less leading to the lost of a few billion dollars annually. I also have an issue with people bring against the bmi because of the excuse of everybody being different. I mean yeah we are all different but that doesn't mean we should try to kill ourselves slowly.

Quote: DirtPrincess

I'll say what I said in what was essentially the same topic just a month ago. Let people do what they want with their bodies and lives instead of being dicks just because fat people make you uncomfortable.

As said a thousand times in this topic, being "overweight" doesn't necessarily equate to being unhealthy, and nobody should have a problem with someone considered plus sized.

But if someone is 500 pounds, not doing much to change that, and then insist that private businesses and the government should accommodate that to make their lives better, I'm sorry but that's not how it should be. Losing weight is absolutely difficult and grueling, but you shouldn't be awarded handicap parking spots over something you did to yourself.

Going into the healthcare aspect of it changes things a lot for me. My viewpoint on this was heavily based around how we treat people on a personal level. Going into like, what extra things we pay for and government accommodations is a separate issue than what I myself was speaking on. I was just saying that I don't think we should be berating people over it. Like a solution that most people seem to think will work is attacking people on a personal level and shaming them into losing weight, and I don't agree with that.

The example CAV gave about the handicap parking spots was a great one, and it goes into the thing of like preventable vs. unpreventable medical issues. I hate to think that someone with a medical issue they couldn't prevent is having a harder time receiving help with healthcare and stuff due to an influx of people who have weight related medical issues.

For both mental and physical health, if you're trying to better yourself and fix your own problems then I have no issue with it at all. But if you're someone who doesn't take an active role in your own life and you let yourself be miserable then I lose a lot of respect for you.

Quote: DirtPrincess

Going into the healthcare aspect of it changes things a lot for me. My viewpoint on this was heavily based around how we treat people on a personal level. Going into like, what extra things we pay for and government accommodations is a separate issue than what I myself was speaking on. .

Well that's exactly the issue I was speaking on so I think you kinda missed the point lol

why are we avoiding idle chatter like the plague

no srsly these kind of posts belong there.

Quote: HIR

Obesity poses health risks. The health risks suck up billions of dollars worth of healthcare resources, which is bad. Here's the problem.

1) There's a genetic component to appetite and metabolism. You can be an incredibly fit individual and still be considered "fat" by medical personnel and everyday people. If you have the wrong combination of genes, becoming an "acceptable weight" is extraordinarily difficult. And the average person can't look at someone who's overweight and say, "Oh, it's not their fault. It's their genes." This can even apply to morbidly obese individuals at times (see: familial hypercholesterolemia).
2) Socioeconomic factors. Healthy foods are expensive. Someone trying to make ends meet may not have the time to sit there and prepare a healthy food. You can't write prescriptions for mandatory time to exercise and prepare meals.

This. So much

Some people are just unfortunetly prone to suffering form overweight due to **** metabolism or other factors. I know there is even a disease where you just put on weight. :

I'm prone to eating the instant noodles because of the fact that they're like just over $1. A lot of students eat them too because of the extremely cheap price.

However if the person is so bad to the point where they struggle to walk, or their weight is proven to be unhealthy, then yes, I do agree that they need to lose weight. However I do feel that some chub is fine. Most people I know aren't perfectly slim and its kind of hard to be slim nowadays.

Its alright saying this, but its not like we're even doing anything to stop it. If anything we're just making it harder and harder to not be overweight. Instead we're all focus on making the ideal body on magazines and making that pretty much all you see lol. If it weren't for my fat mostly going into my legs I would probably look overweight too rather than fitting into an australian 6. there is just so much insecurity now, even with those who aren't even overweight. :\

Quote: Metallo

Quote: DirtPrincess

Going into the healthcare aspect of it changes things a lot for me. My viewpoint on this was heavily based around how we treat people on a personal level. Going into like, what extra things we pay for and government accommodations is a separate issue than what I myself was speaking on. .

Well that's exactly the issue I was speaking on so I think you kinda missed the point lol

Yeah but you never mentioned any way that you would like to see a change, or anything positive you could do to assist a change, so I just said that I don't think we should be dicks to people because you provided nothing to go off of. I didn't miss the point I just stated my opinion lol

Quote: DirtPrincess

Quote: Metallo

Quote: DirtPrincess

Going into the healthcare aspect of it changes things a lot for me. My viewpoint on this was heavily based around how we treat people on a personal level. Going into like, what extra things we pay for and government accommodations is a separate issue than what I myself was speaking on. .

Well that's exactly the issue I was speaking on so I think you kinda missed the point lol

Yeah but you never mentioned any way that you would like to see a change, or anything positive you could do to assist a change, so I just said that I don't think we should be dicks to people because you provided nothing to go off of. I didn't miss the point I just stated my opinion lol

You sure about that?


Quote: Metallo

The solution is to change the culture, which means using the media.

Half a generation ago, smoking was cool. Now it's on the decline and quitting has become a trend. If you live in the US, you probably know of the massive ad campaign "Truth" with the anti-smoking message. There are definitely others like it, and they contributed to (if not outright fueled) the change.

Why can't we do the same thing with obesity and active lifestyles? There was the "Get up and play an hour a day" campaign that was popular a little over a decade ago, but I haven't seen much since then and it was mostly aimed at children anyway. Simply put, we need more ink.

Also I never once advocated being dicks to overweight people so that's a non sequitur

EDIT: As far as what I personally can do, I mentioned in the Starfire topic that I'm a journalist. The media is literally my job and I think that's where the change needs to be made

There's so much quoting and I don't wanna, but in regards to eating healthy on a budget I know how hard that can be. I'm able to grow a lot of the more expensive vegetables I eat and the grocery store near my house doesn't have that bad of prices, but I know that I'm part of the lucky few.

If you can't afford fresh fruits and vegetables, frozen is a good option. Definitely a better option than canned and they usual average out to about the same price when you consider the liquid they're canned in.
Making sure you're buying the fruits and veggies that are in season is also a good option, as they're usual more expensive and more processed when you buy them out of season.

Eggs, greek yogurt, spinach, brown rice, oatmeal, onions, carrots, cabbage. Obviously you can't base an entire diet around these foods, but these are some examples of cheaper, healthier options that you can find just about anywhere. Choosing white meat over red meat can help cut costs as well.

Don't forget seafood! Fish is delish!

Quote: DirtPrincess

Going into the healthcare aspect of it changes things a lot for me. My viewpoint on this was heavily based around how we treat people on a personal level. Going into like, what extra things we pay for and government accommodations is a separate issue than what I myself was speaking on. I was just saying that I don't think we should be berating people over it. Like a solution that most people seem to think will work is attacking people on a personal level and shaming them into losing weight, and I don't agree with that.

The example CAV gave about the handicap parking spots was a great one, and it goes into the thing of like preventable vs. unpreventable medical issues. I hate to think that someone with a medical issue they couldn't prevent is having a harder time receiving help with healthcare and stuff due to an influx of people who have weight related medical issues.

For both mental and physical health, if you're trying to better yourself and fix your own problems then I have no issue with it at all. But if you're someone who doesn't take an active role in your own life and you let yourself be miserable then I lose a lot of respect for you.

just saying I understand more what you mean, and me and you were on different pages, but I agree with the points you're making here.

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

Don't forget seafood! Fish is delish!

fish > every other meat

such an underrated meat

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

Don't forget seafood! Fish is expensive!

Fixed

Quote: DarkCynder_543

why are we avoiding idle chatter like the plague

no srsly these kind of posts belong there.

Because nobody posts in Idle Chatter and the discussion would probably die after four posts. So instead it's posted in S&N where it will get more attention, leading to further decrease in IC activity and a smaller chance that a serious thread there would get responses.

It's a vicious cycle.

Quote: CAV

Quote: DarkCynder_543

why are we avoiding idle chatter like the plague

no srsly these kind of posts belong there.

Because nobody posts in Idle Chatter and the discussion would probably die after four posts. So instead it's posted in S&N where it will get more attention, leading to further decrease in IC activity and a smaller chance that a serious thread there would get responses.

It's a vicious cycle.

This.

I also wanna add that I'm aware of the excuse that it isn't always self inflicted or done because they want to. Depression and comfort eating can absolutely be a reason for ballooning weight and it isn't that easy to break (you may as well be saying "just stop being depressed").

But there's still more control and more you can do to prevent or repair the damage there than, say, someone who suffers a debilitating disease that affects their mobility or motor skills.

At some point saying "I gained the weight due to depression" stops being a sad truth and more of an excuse.

EDIT: I feel like what I'm saying is coming off harsh to those who are overweight.

Quote: CAV

I also wanna add that I'm aware of the excuse that it isn't always self inflicted or done because they want to. Depression and comfort eating can absolutely be a reason for ballooning weight and it isn't that easy to break (you may as well be saying "just stop being depressed").

But there's still more control and more you can do to prevent or repair the damage there than, say, someone who suffers a debilitating disease that affects their mobility or motor skills.

At some point saying "I gained the weight due to depression" stops being a sad truth and more of an excuse.

EDIT: I feel like what I'm saying is coming off harsh to those who are overweight.

Obesity usually does have psychological factors and it's definitely worth examining.

That being said, as someone with clinical depression I completely agree about personal responsibility.

Quote: CAV

I also wanna add that I'm aware of the excuse that it isn't always self inflicted or done because they want to. Depression and comfort eating can absolutely be a reason for ballooning weight and it isn't that easy to break (you may as well be saying "just stop being depressed").

But there's still more control and more you can do to prevent or repair the damage there than, say, someone who suffers a debilitating disease that affects their mobility or motor skills.

At some point saying "I gained the weight due to depression" stops being a sad truth and more of an excuse.

EDIT: I feel like what I'm saying is coming off harsh to those who are overweight.

no, I think you're dead on, and you're just speaking the truth exactly how it is.

I mean it could definitely seem rather harsh. I'm essentially pinning a lot of the blame on them as opposed to any psychological factors that are at play.

I think I may just be coming at it thinking about how, while it's extremely difficult, you can fight those factors. Just like how you can fight depression or anxiety. You aren't always going to win but it feels like someone who balloons to 700 lbs because of depression is someone who gave up.

I used to be overweight as a kid, and while it wasn't due to any depression I also realize it was my own doing and a destructive thing, and over the years I made changes to fix that. I have my own psychological hangups I'm dealing with but the reactions I get now are night and day. It can be as simple as cutting out soda, Lindsey.

Quote: CAV

I mean it could definitely seem rather harsh. I'm essentially pinning a lot of the blame on them as opposed to any psychological factors that are at play.

I think I may just be coming at it thinking about how, while it's extremely difficult, you can fight those factors. Just like how you can fight depression or anxiety. You aren't always going to win but it feels like someone who balloons to 700 lbs because of depression is someone who gave up.

Don't forget about enablers. They're worse than the patients themselves.

Watch an episode of My 600-lb Life and you'll see.

Quote: CAV

cutting out soda

Blasphemy.

Enablers don't often seem to even be aware that they're feeding into this cycle until someone else points it out. If they're fully aware and doing it anyway then they're absolutely being malicious.

I think most of the time they're fully aware, they're just afraid of the consequences if they stop enabling, which in their mind is worse than the consequences for the patient.

Quote: CAV

I mean it could definitely seem rather harsh. I'm essentially pinning a lot of the blame on them as opposed to any psychological factors that are at play.

I think I may just be coming at it thinking about how, while it's extremely difficult, you can fight those factors. Just like how you can fight depression or anxiety. You aren't always going to win but it feels like someone who balloons to 700 lbs because of depression is someone who gave up.

I used to be overweight as a kid, and while it wasn't due to any depression I also realize it was my own doing and a destructive thing, and over the years I made changes to fix that. I have my own psychological hangups I'm dealing with but the reactions I get now are night and day. It can be as simple as cutting out soda, Lindsey.

that's a lot of what it is I think. there's a psychological thing at play, and I don't want to rag on people for that, I can understand that for sure. I was never overweight, but there were things I did because of my depression, and one day I woke up and realized that I was a quitter and I was giving up. I turned it around after that, and i'm better for it now. so I think you have the right idea, yep.

sometimes harsh words is what people need to hear.

^ That's the biggest thing with any health related issues is trying to do better for yourself, and with almost any health issue there are steps you can take to improve your situation.

Quote: DirtPrincess

^ That's the biggest thing with any health related issues is trying to do better for yourself, and with almost any health issue there are steps you can take to improve your situation.

completely agreed...!

I recently watched a documentary on an immobile, morbidly obese man that solely relied on his wife to feed him, bathe him, keep in alive basically. She claimed she couldn't help his eating habits, but she was the ONLY one supplying him with food, and it was excessive, horrible junk food all of the time. IIRC, she's also the one who supplied him with the pills that he used to kill himself. It's a horribly tragic story about food addiction and enabling. It's called The Man Who Ate Himself To Death.
I don't want to blame her for enabling him, since he's the one who ate himself into relying on her to simply survive. It's not fair to put that pressure on someone. But if she was going to LET him rely on her, she could have done so many things differently, starting with NOT FEEDING HIM JUNK FOOD!!
I'm uncomfortably familiar with the idea of enablement since my brother is a homeless heroin addict (no, I would never supply him with drugs. But sometimes you don't realize the little help you offer is enabling them), and this documentary was the worst case of enabling I've seen. And it happens so often. How many times have you guys seen an obese child? They rely on their parents for food, and parents enable them to start their lives unhealthy.

Quote: Darby

I recently watched a documentary on an immobile, morbidly obese man that solely relied on his wife to feed him, bathe him, keep in alive basically. She claimed she couldn't help his eating habits, but she was the ONLY one supplying him with food, and it was excessive, horrible junk food all of the time. IIRC, she's also the one who supplied him with the pills that he used to kill himself. It's a horribly tragic story about food addiction and enabling. It's called The Man Who Ate Himself To Death.
I don't want to blame her for enabling him, since he's the one who ate himself into relying on her to simply survive. It's not fair to put that pressure on someone. But if she was going to LET him rely on her, she could have done so many things differently, starting with NOT FEEDING HIM JUNK FOOD!!
I'm uncomfortably familiar with the idea of enablement since my brother is a homeless heroin addict (no, I would never supply him with drugs. But sometimes you don't realize the little help you offer is enabling them), and this documentary was the worst case of enabling I've seen. And it happens so often. How many times have you guys seen an obese child? They rely on their parents for food, and parents enable them to start their lives unhealthy.

^ ^ ^ ^

I never heard of that of story, thanks for sharing it hear. it was a great example. and same to you and your situation, i'm sorry to hear that.

and also, I completely agree with everything you just said here, so i'm kind of just up voting you here!

I just want to say something that seems to be in result of this movement and it really pisses me off.

And that's the fact that there is no support for the skinny. Because skinny is to be desired when in reality it forms a whole bunch of problems.

For example, I can't fit into any clothes in the cheaper clothes stores because they're always too big on me and I find they don't go any smaller, yet I always see support for large sizes that even go up three times the average size. There is just no support for the smaller built people at all. Also my issues can't even get talked about because all I ever get in response is ****ing jealousy. And I'm not even skinny, just small built. And my best friend is even smaller than me and is an Australian 4, and she has it even worse and hates it and wishes to be bigger.

But it pisses me of when people trash others that are skinny, because apparently social acceptance doesn't apply to them for some reason even though being skinny is another major health issue itself.

Quote: DarkCynder_543

I just want to say something that seems to be in result of this movement and it really pisses me off.

And that's the fact that there is no support for the skinny. Because skinny is to be desired when in reality it forms a whole bunch of problems.

For example, I can't fit into any clothes in the cheaper clothes stores because they're always too big on me and I find they don't go any smaller, yet I always see support for large sizes that even go up three times the average size. There is just no support for the smaller built people at all. Also my issues can't even get talked about because all I ever get in response is ****ing jealousy. And I'm not even skinny, just small built. And my best friend is even smaller than me and is an Australian 4, and she has it even worse and hates it and wishes to be bigger.

But it pisses me of when people trash others that are skinny, because apparently social acceptance doesn't apply to them for some reason even though being skinny is another major health issue itself.

^ ^ ^ ^

this coming from someone who is also very very skinny, I feel this on a personal level.

While on this subject can we talk about how absolutely horrible women's sizes tend to be anyway?

Depending on the store, brand, or sometimes even within the same brand I'm a US 0, 4, or 6. It's impossible for me to ever find anything that fits right because I have a big chest and I'm short ontop of the fact that I never know what size to try to look for. I've been in stores that put a US size 4 in the plus size section, and I've been in stores that didn't carry below a US size 8.
I would say overall that women have more variation in body shapes than men, so it would make so much more sense for our clothes to be measured by shoulders, chest, waist, hips, length.

Quote: DirtPrincess

While on this subject can we talk about how absolutely horrible women's sizes tend to be anyway?

Depending on the store, brand, or sometimes even within the same brand I'm a US 0, 4, or 6. It's impossible for me to ever find anything that fits right because I have a big chest and I'm short ontop of the fact that I never know what size to try to look for. I've been in stores that put a US size 4 in the plus size section, and I've been in stores that didn't carry below a US size 8.
I would say overall that women have more variation in body shapes than men, so it would make so much more sense for our clothes to be measured by shoulders, chest, waist, hips, length.

^ ^ ^ ^

exactly. for the love of goodness, the clothing industry needs to revamp there so-called sensical conclusion on the sizes for woman's clothing. it should never be that hard to find something that actually fits, it's terrible. ;~; i'm tall, but skinny, but rather well sized in the chest with somewhat wide shoulders, so it it makes it horrid finding something that works the way I want it to...

Quote: DirtPrincess

While on this subject can we talk about how absolutely horrible women's sizes tend to be anyway?

Depending on the store, brand, or sometimes even within the same brand I'm a US 0, 4, or 6. It's impossible for me to ever find anything that fits right because I have a big chest and I'm short ontop of the fact that I never know what size to try to look for. I've been in stores that put a US size 4 in the plus size section, and I've been in stores that didn't carry below a US size 8.
I would say overall that women have more variation in body shapes than men, so it would make so much more sense for our clothes to be measured by shoulders, chest, waist, hips, length.

Indeed, but "Screw sense," say clothing manufacturers. "The only sense we want to see is the .99 at the end of the price tag!"

I'm not really qualified to talk much about this subject but one thing I know for a fact is that enabling unhealthy eating from a young age can not only cause obesity problems, but can generally turn a kid into a pretty spoiled one. I had some little cousins who were like that when I was younger and their parents were basically obese themselves. They mostly ate chips, potatoes, meat, and other such foods without any real moderation. They didn't eat vegetables. And they didn't do a whole lot of exercise.

The boy is now a teenager and he seems to have turned things around. He started playing sports a lot, especially once he got to secondary school, and now much of his fat has been replaced by muscle. He still plays lots of video games but he moderates it with his exercise and schoolwork.

The girl is still in primary school I think and not much has changed, but I don't see them as often these days. She used to get pretty spoiled when I was a teenager though, and threw a lot of temper tantrums (as did the boy), and that was partly because what started as spoiling them with junk food and the like became general spoiling.

^ What exactly makes you unqualified, again? X3

Seriously, you may not have "firsthand" experience, but I'd say you have the next closest thing, and you seem to be very knowledgeable on the matter.

I just mean I haven't done much research on the topic of obesity, what causes it (genetically and psychologically, obviously some people get it because they just eat too much), and how best to treat an obese person. I wouldn't feel right telling people they're doing it wrong when I don't have much experience treating an obese person.

The situation I described before was anecdotal, but it goes without saying that parents shouldn't overly spoil their kids with junk food. They'll probably like vegetables given enough time. I know I wasn't the best at eating vegetables when I was young, but nowadays, some of my favourite dishes involve vegetables.

^ Ah, I see. Okay, that makes sense, but I still find your post valuable and informative.

And, yes, people, eat your veggies! They'll grown on you! (metaphorically, of course...)