darkSpyro

Quote: Sesshomaru75

Get ready for the repeated "It doesn't happen that often, though".
And "I'd rather trust a potential victim than a potential rapist, and therefore would rather ruin the latter's reputation even if we don't have any evidence and they might have done nothing wrong".

Oh, and let's not forget the legendary "We're not the judge and jury, so we can't possibly ruin a person's reputation even though we as a people can still effect things through our voices and outcries for "justice"".

As I've already mentioned, as somebody who's been raped more than once, this kind of mindset is pretty disgusting, even to me. :/

@DirtPrincess

I think you're entitled to your own opinions just as I'm entitled to mine. I apologize that the things I've said in this discussion have offended you this badly. My intention was just to state how I feel about things, and I reiterated that first point because I think it's important to remember when discussing how we handle these things in our society.
People have different ways of coping with trauma but I don't think that makes my mindset anymore "disgusting" than yours.

Uh dunno about celebrities and I won't look up the exact article right now, but there was this guy that got kicked out of university and his job over a woman that made a habit out of making false rape accusations at several men. Even after she got arrested, his life was still ****ed and he mentioned the first thing you find searching his name is being accused of rape, not that the accusation was false.

I don't actually remember how long it was, but it was floating on reddit.

Quote: Bifrost

Uh dunno about celebrities and I won't look up the exact article right now, but there was this guy that got kicked out of university and his job over a woman that made a habit out of making false rape accusations at several men. Even after she got arrested, his life was still ****ed and he mentioned the first thing you find searching his name is being accused of rape, not that the accusation was false.

I don't actually remember how long it was, but it was floating on reddit.

That's most likely the result of a search engine's algorithms prioritizing links with the most hits. But I'm not a programmer or anything so I could be wrong.

I can't comment on the other stuff because I only have your word to go on. There has to be more to the story than that.

Quote: Sesshomaru75

It's not your mindset specifically that I find disgusting, it is the mindset of ruining someone's life in general without any evidence that I find disgusting. Not just with this kind of thing specifically, but in general.
That's not really as subjective, I feel, as it's being logical and awaiting evidence before throwing stones like we're uncivilized. :/

I'm not and I haven't been advocating for ruining anyone's life. My choice to believe someone's accusations doesn't have an effect on how the accused person is treated or what happens to them. I'm simply saying that if someone were to say to me "X person sexually assaulted me" I would offer my support, because I know how crucial that can be.
Ruining someone's life would be if I started looking for justice towards the accused person, or I started trying to slander their name somehow. I haven't said anything that could imply that I was in support of that at all.
You and I have different experiences, and the way I view this is based on my personal experience. I want to be able to be the supportive person that I so desperately needed when I was dealing with my own stuff.

Quote: Sesshomaru75

Once again, wasn't talking about you specifically, just in a general sense. Only used your quotes because it's what everyone was repeating basically.

I'd be supportive as well, and I never said that I wouldn't, but at the same time I wouldn't go and ***** and yell at the accused until evidence is brought forth. I'm not saying that you go and do that, I simply meant it in a general sense.

Even before proof, the accused should still be made aware of how serious the situation is. They shouldn't be surprised when they're suddenly under scrutiny and people behave differently towards them.

On the subject, someone's reaction to an accusation can be a pretty damn good indicator of guilt.

Quote: Sesshomaru75

I mean, fair enough, but we shouldn't be slandering them or anything of that sort until we get evidence. Definitely supporting the victims, yes, but even then wait until we know more before we pass judgement.

That is true, as well, I suppose, but even then that isn't exactly an accurate way to know for sure if someone has done something bad, nor is it evidence.

Careful with the legal lingo. We're not lawyers, we're just observers.

Falsity in these cases is the exception, not the rule. We shouldn't tiptoe around a burgeoning and long overdue social change because of what ifs IMO.

It could be possible that someone under pressure might feel guilty for something they didn't do and cave-in toward people making accusations or things along those lines. Since we're human beings we can't all act like complete robots under pressure and if a bunch of people started accusing you for something you didn't do then you'd get nervous and stressed out because it and feel like they might've did something wrong, everyone reacts differently toward pressure. That's why even that can also be somewhat of an iffy area.

I just wanted to say that about that subject, I uh... I don't know what to say about the topic on-hand, sorry about not contributing to the actual topic and just the current subject. ;

Quote: Sesshomaru75

@Metallo - Okay, but that's your opinion, one which I heavily disagree with, especially based on experience. I'm not really going to argue any further because I've already said what I've wanted to say, so... :/

And I had a personal experience where disbelieving a victim turned out poorly for everyone involved, so it drives me differently.

Society needs both of us. This is why it's necessary to disagree.

Quote: Sesshomaru75

Well, alright then. It's not the same thing, really, but you do you, I guess? *shrug*

Of course it's not. I didn't mean to imply that it was.

I don't wholly disagree with you. There's definitely merit in what you've said.

You're good, don't worry

I want to point out that I very much so agree with a lot of (if not all, really) of your posts in here sess. I was offline today, but you said a lot of what I could've added to the discussion already, so i'm just upvoting you!

Quote: Metallo

Quote: Sesshomaru75

And it's a lot harder for someone who's generally well known across the world to recover, than it is for an average person.
The latter might still get media attention, but it is generally the celebrities and well-known people who will get thrown under the bus by the media, even after they end up being proven innocent if they didn't do anything wrong.

I feel like I've repeated myself numerous times in this single post. o_o

Give me an example of this happening.

Seriously, please do. I've never heard of the news media continuing to report that an assault happened after being proven false.

I can only think of one big case of a false accusation that got mass coverage recently, and after it was proven false the media dropped it completely. The only reason it was covered in the first place was an isolated case of bad journalism.

Michael Jackson was treated like a joke and pariah due to his accusations even after it was decided that he was innocent and likely never did anything he was accused of.

Quote: CAV

Quote: Metallo

Quote: Sesshomaru75

And it's a lot harder for someone who's generally well known across the world to recover, than it is for an average person.
The latter might still get media attention, but it is generally the celebrities and well-known people who will get thrown under the bus by the media, even after they end up being proven innocent if they didn't do anything wrong.

I feel like I've repeated myself numerous times in this single post. o_o

Give me an example of this happening.

Seriously, please do. I've never heard of the news media continuing to report that an assault happened after being proven false.

I can only think of one big case of a false accusation that got mass coverage recently, and after it was proven false the media dropped it completely. The only reason it was covered in the first place was an isolated case of bad journalism.

Michael Jackson was treated like a joke and pariah due to his accusations even after it was decided that he was innocent and likely never did anything he was accused of.

The general public may have treated him that way, but the news media left the accusations alone after the court decided.

Those two don't mesh nearly as well as people seem to think.

Well my post focuses on both aspects and notes that the issue lies more with the general public's perception and it's something that needs to be fixed.

It isn't the false accuser's fault that the public will do that, but it's still damning. And media outlets that prey on gossip such as TMZ may continue to perpetuate or imply things even after it's been proven false.

I may have put too much emphasis on the media though, in which case I apologize.

Quote: CAV

Well my post focuses on both aspects and notes that the issue lies more with the general public's perception and it's something that needs to be fixed.

It isn't the false accuser's fault that the public will do that, but it's still damning. And media outlets that prey on gossip such as TMZ may continue to perpetuate or imply things even after it's been proven false.

I may have put too much emphasis on the media though, in which case I apologize.

Yes and Sess's post was talking about the media which I was addressing.