I'm not crazy about the overall design but it could be worse
I fail to see how.
So far from what I've seen, everything looks really bad. Raven, Beast Boy, Starfire. I hope Cyborg is amazing enough to redeem the rest of it because nobody cares about Robin.
I don't think it's a "ruined childhood" thing or a nostalgia thing. I think it's just the disappointment over something that had the potential to be really amazing and something that people were excited for doesn't look great so far.
I'm not crazy about the overall design but it could be worse
I fail to see how.
So far from what I've seen, everything looks really bad. Raven, Beast Boy, Starfire. I hope Cyborg is amazing enough to redeem the rest of it because nobody cares about Robin.
FIGHT ME
---
a true saiyan always sprinkles when he tinkles
I actually hate it when people needlessly race wash established characters. Mostly it just comes off to me as "We need more representation so we'll make every character that's not [insert race] to that inserted race". Like if you really need to show representation that badly, just make your own characters and establish your own work (Or actually support works that have a diverse cast set. Like I never heard of Black Panther until CA: Civil War so maybe a **** ton of support would get that diverse cast the spotlight it deserves). Because with that logic there you're just gonna have a completely different character than the character you originally changed.
Also I don't see why they made Starfire black. Like there's already a Black character, Cyborg, through out the DC series he was black. What I got from this is that's not good enough really. Idk. Hopefully that the show in a AU or something.
Also don't get me wrong, I understand the need for representation. I just don't think race-washing is a good way to go about it.
Outside of my controversial af opinion. I really don't like the outfit they went with. She straight up look like a pimp that came out of the club. Thought Starfire was supposed to be a curious af humanoid from another planet.
---
If you cannot handle me at my pumpkin spiciest, you do not deserve me at my pumpkin sweetest
icon from Empoh
I actually hate it when people needlessly race wash established characters. Mostly it just comes off to me as "We need more representation so we'll make every character that's not [insert race] to that inserted race". Like if you really need to show representation that badly, just make your own characters and establish your own work (Or actually support works that have a diverse cast set. Like I never heard of Black Panther until CA: Civil War so maybe a **** ton of support would get that diverse cast the spotlight it deserves). Because with that logic there you're just gonna have a completely different character than the character you originally changed.
Also I don't see why they made Starfire black. Like there's already a Black character, Cyborg, through out the DC series he was black. What I got from this is that's not good enough really. Idk. Hopefully that the show in a AU or something.
Also don't get me wrong, I understand the need for representation. I just don't think race-washing is a good way to go about it.
Outside of my controversial af opinion. I really don't like the outfit they went with. She straight up look like a pimp that came out of the club. Thought Starfire was supposed to be a curious af humanoid from another planet.
i was going to type something like this but was scared of the backlash but im glad somebody said it
I actually hate it when people needlessly race wash established characters. Mostly it just comes off to me as "We need more representation so we'll make every character that's not [insert race] to that inserted race". Like if you really need to show representation that badly, just make your own characters and establish your own work (Or actually support works that have a diverse cast set. Like I never heard of Black Panther until CA: Civil War so maybe a **** ton of support would get that diverse cast the spotlight it deserves). Because with that logic there you're just gonna have a completely different character than the character you originally changed.
Also I don't see why they made Starfire black. Like there's already a Black character, Cyborg, through out the DC series he was black. What I got from this is that's not good enough really. Idk. Hopefully that the show in a AU or something.
Also don't get me wrong, I understand the need for representation. I just don't think race-washing is a good way to go about it.
Outside of my controversial af opinion. I really don't like the outfit they went with. She straight up look like a pimp that came out of the club. Thought Starfire was supposed to be a curious af humanoid from another planet.
thank you for posting this. I was going to type this up, and yet again, you saved me time by pinning precisely what I was thinking.
controversial or not, I think that you are completely right.
---
Trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble! - Taylor Swift
I actually hate it when people needlessly race wash established characters. Mostly it just comes off to me as "We need more representation so we'll make every character that's not [insert race] to that inserted race". Like if you really need to show representation that badly, just make your own characters and establish your own work (Or actually support works that have a diverse cast set. Like I never heard of Black Panther until CA: Civil War so maybe a **** ton of support would get that diverse cast the spotlight it deserves). Because with that logic there you're just gonna have a completely different character than the character you originally changed.
Also I don't see why they made Starfire black. Like there's already a Black character, Cyborg, through out the DC series he was black. What I got from this is that's not good enough really. Idk. Hopefully that the show in a AU or something.
Also don't get me wrong, I understand the need for representation. I just don't think race-washing is a good way to go about it.
Outside of my controversial af opinion. I really don't like the outfit they went with. She straight up look like a pimp that came out of the club. Thought Starfire was supposed to be a curious af humanoid from another planet.
I actually hate it when people needlessly race wash established characters. Mostly it just comes off to me as "We need more representation so we'll make every character that's not [insert race] to that inserted race". Like if you really need to show representation that badly, just make your own characters and establish your own work (Or actually support works that have a diverse cast set. Like I never heard of Black Panther until CA: Civil War so maybe a **** ton of support would get that diverse cast the spotlight it deserves). Because with that logic there you're just gonna have a completely different character than the character you originally changed.
Also I don't see why they made Starfire black. Like there's already a Black character, Cyborg, through out the DC series he was black. What I got from this is that's not good enough really. Idk. Hopefully that the show in a AU or something.
Also don't get me wrong, I understand the need for representation. I just don't think race-washing is a good way to go about it.
Outside of my controversial af opinion. I really don't like the outfit they went with. She straight up look like a pimp that came out of the club. Thought Starfire was supposed to be a curious af humanoid from another planet.
this is why i love trix master reason #1
i had a reply typed up basically saying most of this plus other things, I'll retype it tomorrow when im not half asleep
To those saying she looks like a prostitute, the instagram post she made after the photo was leaked says that it was 19 degrees outside and they were in between shoots. Makes sense she'd be wearing a coat.
I actually hate it when people needlessly race wash established characters. Mostly it just comes off to me as "We need more representation so we'll make every character that's not [insert race] to that inserted race". Like if you really need to show representation that badly, just make your own characters and establish your own work (Or actually support works that have a diverse cast set. Like I never heard of Black Panther until CA: Civil War so maybe a **** ton of support would get that diverse cast the spotlight it deserves). Because with that logic there you're just gonna have a completely different character than the character you originally changed.
Also I don't see why they made Starfire black. Like there's already a Black character, Cyborg, through out the DC series he was black. What I got from this is that's not good enough really. Idk. Hopefully that the show in a AU or something.
Also don't get me wrong, I understand the need for representation. I just don't think race-washing is a good way to go about it.
Outside of my controversial af opinion. I really don't like the outfit they went with. She straight up look like a pimp that came out of the club. Thought Starfire was supposed to be a curious af humanoid from another planet.
i was going to type something like this but was scared of the backlash but im glad somebody said it
I agree, and I didnt say anything for the exact reason. >.>
---
a true saiyan always sprinkles when he tinkles
yeah the main problem is with her costume anyway — obviously the coat and the pants aren't going to be there but the hair, makeup, and dress don't look quite right.
idealistically it would look like either of these
of course, it might look better in post-production anyway.
I mean, even a redesign could work, but you can do MILES better than a shiny dress. That's not an interesting outfit, let alone iconic. Put in some white belts, adorn the boots, etc etc.
--- SO I'LL GIVE YOU WHAT YOU WANT
(What I need is never what I want)
I actually hate it when people needlessly race wash established characters. Mostly it just comes off to me as "We need more representation so we'll make every character that's not [insert race] to that inserted race". Like if you really need to show representation that badly, just make your own characters and establish your own work (Or actually support works that have a diverse cast set. Like I never heard of Black Panther until CA: Civil War so maybe a **** ton of support would get that diverse cast the spotlight it deserves). Because with that logic there you're just gonna have a completely different character than the character you originally changed.
Also I don't see why they made Starfire black. Like there's already a Black character, Cyborg, through out the DC series he was black. What I got from this is that's not good enough really. Idk. Hopefully that the show in a AU or something.
Also don't get me wrong, I understand the need for representation. I just don't think race-washing is a good way to go about it.
Outside of my controversial af opinion. I really don't like the outfit they went with. She straight up look like a pimp that came out of the club. Thought Starfire was supposed to be a curious af humanoid from another planet.
I wholeheartedly disagree.
Making a new character wouldn't have the same impact as changing an established character. In that light, I fully support the decision.
Until recently, black women have had very little representation in superhero fiction. It's a bold strategy to change an established character, but I think overall, it's a good move. Aside from the fact that people will complain about "race-washing," there is no real reason not to try this.
Edited 4 times - Last edited at 15:06:57 13/04/2018 by Metallo
Putting a new villain in Mulan and removing the songs isn't seen as a good decision, but it wouldn't have the same impact as making a new story altogether. That doesn't make it okay.
Like, yeah, there's no problem changing how a character looks like when it's not really a part of their traits anyway; but we know they'll use that for Very Special Episodes. You're putting a ton of extra baggage on an estabilished character that has already tons of flaws, prejudice from other characters, etc to work with.
--- SO I'LL GIVE YOU WHAT YOU WANT
(What I need is never what I want)
Edited 2 times - Last edited at 15:13:33 13/04/2018 by Bifrost
Putting a new villain in Mulan and removing the songs isn't seen as a good decision, but it wouldn't have the same impact as making a new story altogether. That doesn't make it okay.
Like, yeah, there's no problem changing how a character looks like when it's not really a part of their traits anyway; but we know they'll use that for Very Special Episodes. You're putting a ton of extra baggage on an estabilished character that has already tons of flaws, prejudice from other characters, etc to work with.
Because the villain and the songs were an integral part of the story. The color of Starfire's skin is completely irrelevant to her as a character. Hell, she's not even human, they can make her whatever color they want.
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 15:14:17 13/04/2018 by Metallo
I added more on the post above. And once you think about it, why just not use Cyborg? He's... Part of the team still, I hope.
I saw. Doesn't really change my mind.
Why not just use Cyborg? Because they wanted to take a creative risk and make a statement. It's an artistic decision that would surely cause some debate and discussion, which is what's happening right now between (and that's a good thing).
I actually hate it when people needlessly race wash established characters. Mostly it just comes off to me as "We need more representation so we'll make every character that's not [insert race] to that inserted race". Like if you really need to show representation that badly, just make your own characters and establish your own work (Or actually support works that have a diverse cast set. Like I never heard of Black Panther until CA: Civil War so maybe a **** ton of support would get that diverse cast the spotlight it deserves). Because with that logic there you're just gonna have a completely different character than the character you originally changed.
Also I don't see why they made Starfire black. Like there's already a Black character, Cyborg, through out the DC series he was black. What I got from this is that's not good enough really. Idk. Hopefully that the show in a AU or something.
Also don't get me wrong, I understand the need for representation. I just don't think race-washing is a good way to go about it.
Outside of my controversial af opinion. I really don't like the outfit they went with. She straight up look like a pimp that came out of the club. Thought Starfire was supposed to be a curious af humanoid from another planet.
I wholeheartedly disagree.
Making a new character wouldn't have the same impact as changing an established character. In that light, I fully support the decision.
Until recently, black women have had very little representation in superhero fiction. It's a bold strategy to change an established character, but I think overall, it's a good move. Aside from the fact that people will complain about "race-washing," there is no real reason not to try this.
So black characters can't stand on their own and need the reputation of white characters to work? How lazy
^ I'm not sure what your point is. I can change any story to have more inclusive/minority characters... Or I can make a new story with them that actually uses that for something other than goodwill and PR. The show has to be good and make people identify with characters and have their own heroes(kinda like Black Panther), not cause maximum twitter discussions about such a huge risk they're taking - because being DC they're already at a disavantage.
--- SO I'LL GIVE YOU WHAT YOU WANT
(What I need is never what I want)
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 15:22:01 13/04/2018 by Bifrost
I actually hate it when people needlessly race wash established characters. Mostly it just comes off to me as "We need more representation so we'll make every character that's not [insert race] to that inserted race". Like if you really need to show representation that badly, just make your own characters and establish your own work (Or actually support works that have a diverse cast set. Like I never heard of Black Panther until CA: Civil War so maybe a **** ton of support would get that diverse cast the spotlight it deserves). Because with that logic there you're just gonna have a completely different character than the character you originally changed.
Also I don't see why they made Starfire black. Like there's already a Black character, Cyborg, through out the DC series he was black. What I got from this is that's not good enough really. Idk. Hopefully that the show in a AU or something.
Also don't get me wrong, I understand the need for representation. I just don't think race-washing is a good way to go about it.
Outside of my controversial af opinion. I really don't like the outfit they went with. She straight up look like a pimp that came out of the club. Thought Starfire was supposed to be a curious af humanoid from another planet.
I wholeheartedly disagree.
Making a new character wouldn't have the same impact as changing an established character. In that light, I fully support the decision.
Until recently, black women have had very little representation in superhero fiction. It's a bold strategy to change an established character, but I think overall, it's a good move. Aside from the fact that people will complain about "race-washing," there is no real reason not to try this.
So black characters can't stand on their own and need the reputation of white characters to work? How lazy
That's not really what I meant by impact. I meant getting attention from the community.
^ I'm not sure what your point is. I can change any story to have more inclusive/minority characters... Or I can make a new story with them that actually uses that for something other than goodwill and PR. The show has to be good and make people identify with characters and have their own heroes(kinda like Black Panther), not cause maximum twitter discussions about such a huge risk they're taking - because being DC they're already at a disavantage.
My point is that it's certainly a gamble, but I personally disagree that it's an altogether bad thing.
Historically speaking, original POC characters tend to fade into obscurity. Most people have never heard of Blade, and Black Panther got zero ink before they put him in the MCU, despite the fact that he's been around since the 60s. Only hardcore fans know who Miles Morales is as well.
Edited 2 times - Last edited at 15:29:23 13/04/2018 by Metallo
Speaking personally, I would rather have original black characters with depth and interesting qualities over literal reskins of existing characters for brownie points. It can come off as lazy if you don’t know what you’re doing.
At the same time, I kinda am wishywashy on this too, because I really love Deadpool 2 Domino as opposed to the black female Iron Man character they had a while back. I guess that goes back to the “not knowing what you’re doing” design wise.
On Starfire’s design, though. My biggest issue isn’t the fact that she is black and playing Starfire, it’s that they really shoulda pulled a Gamora and hit her up with that body paint. Same with Beast Boy.
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 15:33:37 13/04/2018 by TheToyNerd
For the record, I definitely think making original POC characters is preferable to changing existing ones. I just also think that changing existing ones, as in this case, is a creative risk worth taking.
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 15:37:25 13/04/2018 by Metallo
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