darkSpyro

Now I know this site is kind of mixed on fan types, some love LoS and some hate LoS. I personally like the series. However, usually when I ask people why they hate LoS, they're answer is "because it's not like the originals" or "it's different" or "it's not Spyro."

Now I'm here to inquire... what specific things about the GAMES (just the games, not anything like the examples above) do you find you dislike? Of course there might be some things that you DO like about it.

For example, I like LoS. I love the story, the music, the atmosphere, the characters. I like the beautiful worlds and growing personalities of the characters. However, I dislike the combat system because it's too repetitive and overdone. I play LoS mostly for its story.. and fun boss fights!

So you try! Why exactly do you dislike LoS, and what are the things you DO like, if any?

Having just gone back to A New Beginning and reached Dante's Freezer, I've found pros and cons based on my (RIGHTEOUS TEACHINGS FROM THE AMETHYST DRAKE) bias. My feelings toward the story are more positive - if Spyro was done today and had a movie tied to it, I'd expect it to look and sound like it does. But perhaps that's a problem, that the Hollywood-iness is too apparent; the cinematography, the character dialogue, the voice actors - none of it feels natural, it's just there to be flashy. Elijah Wood is not Spyro. He's Elijah Wood. Richard Steven Horvitz is Kaos. Sometimes voice actors make the character, it's why I advocate for more variety. But their abilities as voice actors aren't bad, it's merely jarring and takes me out of what I think is quite a dignified and well-meant reboot to Spyro. It's not perfect by any means, but it does the job and feels like a linear adventure. I'm going to play the other games and see what else I like and dislike.

But in terms of gameplay there's not much I can get behind. The combat just isn't my bag, and the game attempts to teach you all these moves that I'm either going to forget or I can't pull off thanks to the awkward camera or collision detection. I like that Spyro's elemental attacks see the most use here (IIRC it was one of the GBA games that made the best use; Enter the Dragonfly and A Hero's Tail did this woefully), and I love Cynder's abilities especially - darkness and poison? Yes please! The two characters being tethered to one another isn't something I enjoy, but I can appreciate the possibilities in puzzle design that would create.

I cannot hate The Legend of Spyro like I used to because despite what I dislike about it, it is doing exactly what a spin-off of any franchise is supposed to do: spin off. This means it can still be criticised on its own merits, but I don't encourage holding it to the same standards and expectations of the original style game.

LoS is actually mainline, since it's a reboot >__>'

You really have to judge game by game. As a whole, the series was alright, but so many flaws and created a rift in the fandom that will never heal, be it towards Classic or Skylanders. It's our Shadow the Hedgehog, but three whole games, and to this day I see 15 year old girls trying to justify its mistakes.

Off the top of my head tho:

ANB:

+Music. A bit of a no brainer, but except for Dante's Freezer, all are memorable and bombastic.
+Art direction. Jared Pullen is da MVP. So much in the world's structure and its weird jagged style gave the series identity, and despite the Star Wars-y story, it felt like an epic
+Use of color. The "real is brown/dark" was creeping into games, and thankfully ANB wasn't affected yet. For a dark coming of age story, all the levels are colorful and weird, and I still remember each not having touched the game in 10 years.
+Characters. We know they cut out a bunch of dialogue and minor characters(plus Pyra), but even then, the designs and the main 7 characters had a lot of personality and potential. Volteer and Cyril even did some much needed comic relief when Sparx waas starting to sound samey.

-Level design. Linear. I can tell you one instance of deviating from the path and it's the XP gems at Munitions Forge. Nothing else makes you do more than follow the dotted line.
-Combat. Super repetitive. Until TEN introduced the combo spells, there's no incentive for anything but mash mash mash. Doing elemental breaths actually breaks your combo half the time, and if you upgrade them, it gets disgustingly easy
-Story. While the origin story was an attempt, it was also done a thousand times more. No interesting twists, no oddities other than the "spyro thinks he's a fat dragonfly" which is never explored for humor. You watched SW? You watched this. The lore is interesting, but being cut from the game means they never actually use all the cool things Pullen and Ron Marz invented for this series alone, like the concept of Aether.

TEN:

+Music. Memorable and dark, as it's fitting.
+Twice over art direction and use of color. Even better this time with the new locations.
+- Combat. It's better, but still repetitive, since while it's great to combine the spells with melee, you still have one tool for melee and most of these spells either end or start combos. No movelist, no incentive.
+New characters. Gaul is a cool villain(shame they never explained he's a mercenary and a cult leader based on Pullen's notes rather than Sub-Big Bad), Cynder had some interesting developments as trying to act as a double agent, Skabb is hilarious and Malefor's background is necessarily creepy. Only one I don't care about is the Chronicler, you can kinda predict all of his lines.
+Levels. Not as non linear as I'd like, but there's now the possibility of going off the beaten path for collectibles and that's awesome. But they nail the theming, with the Ancient Grove, the White Isle, and especially the Mountain of Malefor, which I goddamn hope gets brought back in Skylanders.
+Story. It's still SW, but the twists are much more unique, and thenlore starts to become a thing of its own. A tiny bit of the Aether lore creeps in despite more cut content, and the whole idea that Malefor created an underworld on earth is great. Ending is a bit expected, but having them lose after all is a big twist, and only gets you hype for the final game.

-Physics. Started looking pretty bad. Dragon Time worked when it wanted and sometimes stopped you dead on your tracks.
-Graphics. The cracks were unfortunately starting to show, and the CGI cutscenes don't look good at all.


...oh boy. DOTD. Not Darkest Hour, from Krome. Why.

+Combat. Only one that integrated battles and puzzles and feels good man. Every spell now can be comboed in and out of, and sometimes even in the middle, and there's a movelist. Except...
-Physics. Jesus christ Cynder Spyro stop skiddying all over the place. Ground combat is great, aerial combat is atrocious and floaty.
+Chapter structure. One of my biggest pet peeves of the previous two are that you have to replay the entire game, every time. Now it shows you completion for eveey area without feeling disconnected, and even has extra secrets in revisits.
+Huge nonlinear levels. While it's shoddily designed at times around the flying mechanic(Floating Islands? More like Float Into A Wall Islands), the areas itself are huge and always reward you for snooping around.
+Music. Kneubuhlmann are back for one last romp(for real, I think they split afterwards) and it's awesome. More bombastic than ANB could manage, with a lot of new tunes for the setpieces. A few get repetitive but nothing that you can particularly dislike.

Ehh... Free flying is so-so. It was well integrated, but it's not as satisfying as it should be for faster movement, and the physics don't help it.

-Ugh... Character designs and art direction. EL **** the bed, plain and simple. It went from unique and dynamic to generic epic realistic, and it can't succeed at even that. Spyro and Cynder are an abomination of anatomy, with kites for wings, double knees, nonexistent necks... Why why why. Other characters don't fare much better, either looking super generic like the moles/cheetahs or just a bad translation of the originals like the elders and Malefor with his flappy spikes. Levels with few exceptions are uninspired even in color usage, and either have too much or too little bloom.
-Story. by the love that is all holy, how could you screw up TEN's set up. It's stupid, it's generic, everyone acts like they're in a fanfic, Ignitus dies in a fire literally... No. They even insulted the original story by bringing the Dark/Light Aether lore as the cycle of death and rebirth, only to make it a generic forced "join me, protagonist!" scene that also butchers what was left of Cynder's already ruined character. Oh and I guess a bunch of ghosts at the core of the world solved everything. Skylanders is a lyrical masterpiece in comparison.
-Enemy designs. Sub complaint to the art direction, but aside from the DS version, the enemies are a bunch of animated rocks and grass for no reason, even with the perfectly good monsters and apes from previous games. Can't even tell them from the rest of the level most of the time.


Soooo... Yeah. I don't like DOTD, much less its impact. But I still find ANB and okay start and I love TEN, but overall, it really didn't deserve to inflate the fandom wars the way it did.

ANB

+Music was very nice. Although, outside of the Swamp Hide and Seek music, I don't listen to it anymore;

+ Levels were good. Dante's Freezer was a fun level for what it was. The Swap remains my favorite, very nostalgic, even past LoS and just a cute place to be.

+ The cast. Holy ****, it's got big names in it. Gary Oldman, Elijah Wood,, David Spade, Cree Summer, Kevin Micheal Richardson, they got great talent.

+Combat. Nothing expansive, but I enjoyed it when I was younger. It's simple, but good.

- What an unneeded reboot and would only fall from there.

- Story. It's cliche and takes itself to seriously. I don't like how Spyro, instead of just being a Purple Dragon because it's just one of the many colors, he's a special destiny boy ALA Avatar Aang, except it's awful.


TEN


+SOME of the levels. I liked the Dark Forest and Night Temple, but other than that, nothing was memorable.

+Dark Spyro. Very fun to be crazy OP, but that's about it. Great reward, I'll give'em that.

+Gaul was cool

-Story. Uninteresting, bland, and very forgettable. Thaht's all I can say, I really don't remember the story.


DOTD

+Twilight Falls and Avalar are gorgeous levels and I remember those two very fondly. Legit love them and it's a shame they're in THIS game.

+ Free Flying. Loved this despite how limited it is.

- Character design, outside of the cool Solider dragon, everyone else looks hideous. The Cheetahs look more like dogs than they do look feline. Bifrost nailed the head on the anatomy for the dragons.

- The fighting. I didn't enjoy it. It was too God of Wary and didn't feel like I hit hard. The previous games had great sound effects to hitting and pummeling, allowing for you to feel like you packed a good wallop. DOTD has none of that.

-As Bifrost said, the story was ****. Bland, generic, wanna be LOTR Dragon praising fanfic.

-Acting. GOOD GOD, LOOK AT ALL THAT WASTED TALENT! Gary Oldman is one of the greatest actors currently alive(IMO, but it seems to be a very popular opinion), and even HE stinks in this. Christina Ricci's performance was by far the worst and she's normally a pretty good actor. Wayne Brady is the only one who sounded good, maybe even great. He's an improvisational actor, so it doesn't surprise me.

There's not a lot that I like about the Legend of Spyro. The things that I do like however are the level designs, and Spyro himself as a character doesn't look too bad, I think he looks a lot worse in Dawn of the Dragon, the combat felt too repetitive, and I found it really annoying how easily Spyro can be stunned, especially in TEN. I also found it stupid that you could slow down time in TEN, but Spyro was going slow at the same time, now it would have made sense if he moved at normal speed and the enemies moved slower, so that means that slowing down time is pretty much useless.

The soundtrack was okay, but I don't think it's very memorable, in fact the only track I appreciated was the opening theme in A New Beginning, and I hated that they reused some of the tracks in Dawn of the Dragon, there should have been an entirely new soundtrack.

The characters were also pretty bland and forgettable, I thought Ignitus was cool, and some of the dragon elders had great personalities, and then they sort of lost those personalities in Dawn of the Dragon. Sparx was supposed to be a comic relief, but in the end he was just useless and annoying. I also found it stupid that they completely changed his voice in DOTD.

I must admit DOTD was the most enjoyable to play in terms of gameplay, the combat system felt a little fairer than before, but the combat in flying was terrible.

The story was very poor, it was just a rip off of the Lord of the Rings mixed in with their own garbage. It's a shame really The Legend of Spyro had lots of potential, it probably would have made the storyline a lot more interesting if it was a prequel to the original series, maybe?

Spyro actually moves slightly faster than the enemies, but overall, it was a weird slowdown mechanic since it's more of a switch that makes the hazards slow,which is a weird thing to struggle with despite so many games with that.

The reusal was real in DOTD, but I went back after a few years to listen to the one or two tracks I still cared about and found out a lot that I really liked in the end.

Floating Islands Battle is surprisingly catchy but it plays like once before the final boss??
Another that plays for two loops at the most, but this is exactly fitting for a phase of magic timing and agility.
One of the few moments in the game where it actually reached awesome for me, mostly because of the song. They actually worked on not having the flight mechanic throw you at every possible corner.

There's a LOT more tracks in the other two games, but bringing up DOTD since it's the tougher pill to swallow. It's not just the reused songs that are the problem though, there's also songs that are basically ambience in a series where Ancient Grove just BARELY got away with it, and whatever the **** happened to the Burned Lands Battle theme that just sounds like someone holding all the instruments at once after hearing a few GOW tracks.

GBA TEN is on another category entirely, I love it so much I replay it every few years or so. It's no Super Metroid, and it's actually pretty darn short as far as metroidvanias go, but it's such a polished and nice looking experience,and easily one of the best last games on that handheld. The entire series, except for the classics and maaaayyybeeee AHT, is just below the bar for amazing AAA quality and/or polish, but TEN GBA of all things gets through it.

I think DOTD DS has the better plot, but it's more because it removes most of Cynder's whining and actually develops the Golem a bit as one of four creatures that unlock the Destroyer's power. Malefor just kinda has the power to end the world once he feels like it in the console, and waited 3 years for that.

The issue with the plots is kinda like this:
ANB knows it's Star Wars and LOTR, and doesn't try to pretend it's not. It's alright for a silly spinoff, not for your attempt at a reboot. Cut content kept it from standing out. Every character fits the archetype, but it's got its own style, the locales are its own thing, the gameplay is about things punching each other rather than some gimmick that everyone uses.

TEN knows it's Star Wars and LOTR, and tries to do something a little different. A darker plot, but unlike Empire Strikes Back, it's a lot about stumbling around as the plot catches up to the gang and discovering what's truly happening. Cut content rears its head once again, but more gets through, and you get something unique. Dragon Time starts being something apart of the cliche as it turns out to be an emergency power for when sheep's about to hit the fan, there's the Shadow Wraiths and Skavengers factions having their own struggle which ends up letting Spyro progress, there's Malefor's lair actually being a seal for a LOT of things other than him.

DOTD does not know it's Star Wars and LOTR, and thinks of itself as the cool thing every fan wanted. Realistic(lol) graphics! Malefor is back! The elders do something(get their asses kicked by the Golem? it was advertised as good)! Cynder confesses her feelings! Spyro's true purpose is revealed! Etc etc. Except you've seen this plot everywhere else, from Cynder being Shadow the Hedgehog as this dark creature fighting its dark impulses and complaining nonstop that she isn't nice, from Spyro being the chosen one for eevvil, but no, it's actually good and the villain was lying. From Malefor being Palpatine and nothing else and he's more remembered for his shoddy filter. Ignitus is Obi-Wan/Gandalf and gets the latter's death and rebirth. From randos criticizing Cynder for no good reason despite the hero trying to prove they're alright, from the all-destroying thingamaijig that -big whoop- can't be stopped until the big villain is defeated. And through all the marketing, all the presentation, it's this big epic adventure that everyone should remember as the end of something big.

I might be biased because I went back to see stuff about these games with MUCH more cynical eyes, but dunno, I hope I got my point across. Yeah, plot shouldn't eclipse the gameplay ever unless it's a visual novel, but these games advertised themselves ENTIRELY on plot and hack-and-slash. Deliver that or back to the drawing board it should've gone, especially for EL who gets thrown the game haflway through development and dumps all of the existing concepts(Pullen probably couldn't mention much because of NDA, but the twist that Malefor is just a puppet to the Dark Aether comes to mind) to "please the fans".

like: atmosphere, music, character design, not celebrity voice actors like mae whitman/cree summer/billy west

dislike: writing/derivative plot, celebrity voice actors, gameplay, fans of los

+Cynder.
+Main theme from ANB.
+The ending songs 'This Broken Soul' and 'Guide You Home' from TEN and DotD respectively.
+The scenery in DotD.
+Art style.

-The linear gameplay of the first two games.
-The more serious atmosphere.
-The fact that using your breath abilities cost MP.
-None of the games are collectathons like the other Spyro games are.
-Sparx's design and his voices, apart from Billy West.
-Hunter's personality.
-The motion controls in the Wii version of DotD.

Reading through these, I'm surprised that I actually don't have unpopular opinions after all! I'll just be redundant and say that I love the music, the atmosphere, and the environments (not the level design though). The story in ANB and DOTD was unbearably generic and predictable, but I liked most of TEN (the later parts, at least. The beginning is slow and uninteresting).

I will say that I am kind of a fan of TEN's combat, meaning that I know it's flawed but it's so, so, so much better than ANB. I appreciate that different breaths work differently against different enemies, and I like that Dragon Time is almost required to give you a fighting chance. And it goes without saying that TEN GBA is pretty dang rad.

Like:

- tried defining a personality for Spyro
- combat was an interesting idea
- the flying that is actually in DotD is somewhat forgiveable when considering technical limitations ruining ambitions

Dislike:

- screwed up Spyro's original identity as a public figure character further than Universal did
- combat failed too damn much
- people don't consider the technical limitations that ruined the ambitions of DotD's flight mechanics and thus dis on them.

It destroyed and threw away Spyro's personality and identity and replaced it with a bland character with nothing very unique or memorable about him.

It had a lot of potential and all of it was wasted. Someone uploaded an interview with one of the creators of TLoS and they shared some deleted story information and I want to cry over what could have been. I actually want to see someone on the team make an official graphic novel series for TLoS with the whole story played out properly, character development and all.

Spyro x Cynder. It was rushed and forced. They were enemies in one game, apart for the next, and hurriedly fighting a war for the third. Spyro saved her in the first game as any hero would do, went after her again in the second as any hero would and also any soldier would to keep a weapon out of enemy hands, and fought with her in the third. There were few if any significant character interactions never mind something that would qualify as love. And please don't bring up that whole 'You left me nothing to fight for' line. It was as forced as the sudden 'I love you' from Cynder and infuriatingly stupid. Aside from his mentors, his best friend and surrogate parents there was an entire world to fight for.

Cynder's personality. She had a lot to atone for (in her mind) and we never really saw her struggle beyond that one conversation with Spyro in TEN. They had an opportunity in DotD but didn't use it right and actually created a plort whole in how they did. When they go to the Cheetah village one person points and says 'I have not forgotten what she has done.' In return Cynder squints. That's it. She went form being guilty enough to run away to giving someone a defiant look when the most traumatic point in her history is thrown in her face. She could've stood up for herself more clearly, declaring herself a victim and not responsible for her actions if they wanted her to start becoming more confident. She could've had a heart to heart with this character, still declaring she wasn't as fault, but apologizing for what everyone had been through and promising to make things right as best she could, which would be my first choice.

Missing characters. What happened to Sparx's parents, Kane, the Manweersmalls?

The music was pretty good in places.

The art style in the first two was pretty unique. Got rekt in DotD tho.

The combat was repetitive and battles felt drawn out. Too much dominant strategy too; there were lots of cool looking moves but if I can mash one one button why bother with anything more?

Too linear. I like open world and with all the stuff they meant to do with the reboot it would've been a good way to show more of the world and the people and things in it.

Quote: ClassicSpyroLUV

It destroyed and threw away Spyro's personality and identity and replaced it with a bland character with nothing very unique or memorable about him.

It's not like Spyro had a shining personality to begin with. To me he was always Sonic but purple and four-legged.

That's still a personality. LOS Spyro had very rare moments of snark in TEN but everywhere else he's just main character, does main character things, says main character lines.

Krome Cynder only goes anywhere in TEN GBA. The console game implies it's the same situation, as she pretends to be a villain to all of Gaul's minions at first and loses her **** when she has a moment to kill him. In the consoles it's just a quick scene where she betrays him and that's it, but in the GBA version it was very clear they played her as clever and cold. All of that's pretty gone in DOTD.

Sounds awesome, I'll have to find a video of that scene.

It's more subdued than I made it seem since it's all text, but she actually gets some hits in! Not that it matters, Gaul in that version has a parry mechanic as long as his arms are up, but it's helpful as it's your hint for the boss fight.

I've only played ANB and DOTD, since TEN didn't come out on XBOX/360 and that's all I had as a kid. And that was quite a while ago!

Things I loved:
MUSIC, environments, the different elements, how dragons stood on four legs instead of two, Cyril, Cynder's design in ANB, being able to fly in DOTD, the sound of breaking crystals...

Things I didn't love:
Spyro's design in ANB/DOTD, Cynder's design in DOTD, how linear it was, the combat, having to go to the dojo in ANB, the ending of DOTD, the voices, the tether between Cynder and Spyro in DOTD...

And so on. I rarely replay them because of having to go back and do the dojo all the time in ANB (even though it's much easier for me now!) and the fact that I don't understand what's happening in DOTD because I haven't played TEN. But then, I don't care enough to buy a Wii or Playstation to play it.

Overall, I hate seeing the lost potential of this series. It could have been so much better!

I strongly dislike Spyro's design choice in DotD. He's literally a panting dog whenever he's onscreen during gameplay.