Because all of their movies lately have been basically the same story?? (So this may contain spoilers for their recent movies) There has always been someone that has betrayed the main character(s). King Candy, Hans, that professor from Big Hero 6, and the sheep from Zootopia. They were all chummy chummy with the protags, but turned out to be super evil and betrayed the main cast. I'm sorta sick of them reusing the same story, and this has been throughout all of their recent movies?
I hope their new movie Moana doesn't suffer from this as well. :I
I so happen to be a sucker for that trope myself, but you have a valid criticism. There's other plot twists and "big reveals" you could make in a story. They might need to go in a different direction a bit in the future.
I haven't seen Moana so I don't know if there's a secret villain in it as well. And I'd rather not know until after I get a chance to see it.
I'm more disappointed by the fact that they're doing so many live-action remakes. I mean at first I didn't think too much of it since, they were older movies that could use some updates. But Beauty and the Beast? Mulan? THE FREAKING LION KING?
To me it would make more sense to just re-release the original movies on the big screen. It'd cost less money to do so, they could focus on their other medias instead, and they'd make just as much if not more money as they would from these remakes.
It's called Liar Reveled, and yeah, I'm really tied of that trope.
I don't think it's exactly the same thing. Usually Liar Revealed is when someone lies in order to get something they want and wind up actually making friends along the way, but then they all find out he lied and everyone hates him but it's okay in the end because he saves the day and blah blah blah. What they're talking about is just a side character turning out to be the villain in the end for a surprise twist.
Ah, sorry, my mistake then. >.<;
Disney has been using the same idea, or trope haha, over and over and it is really tiring and definitely putting me off their new movies.
But Sess, doesn't the main plot revolve around these character's betrayals anyway? Not so much Frozen, but with the other movies I mentioned the story wouldn't have happened at all without the "secret villans'" actions and interference.
And Adam, I don't like the idea of all of these live action remakes either, but those are being made by a different studio. The original movies are still really relevant today and people regularly watch them, so do they even need a remake? But I guess that's why they are doing it, because they are still popular and they can make of money off it.
(To be honest though, I've never seen the original Beauty and the Beast and Mulan, haha!)
Pretty sure that complaint appears on Zootopia's TVTropes page, actually. As in, people were hoping the plot would go down the full government conspiracy route and just have Mayor Lionheart as the Big Bad (I mean, he's Lion!Cave Johnson, so I could've gotten down with it). <.<
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That's why I'm a little irked at you for trying to simplify it to the point of legitimately trying to argue that they all have the same plot, when that isn't the case whatsoever.
Similar trope being used =/= same plot
Ah, sorry, again, that was my mistake! I didn't mean for it to come across that way, but I guess I used to wrong wording ... so it did.
Again, sorry!
Hans wasn't really evil, the theory goes he represents a mirror who reflects the characters he speaks to and their desires
A couple examples
When he first met Anna she just finished singing a song about love, and immediately runs into a love interest and loves her back. When he was smiling underneath the boat, he likely could see her.
Also the song "love is an open door" (which btw is what Anna wants with her sister, well the open door relationship part) has plenty of reflection and symmetrical shots.
When the guards were attacking Elsa inside of the castle his line "Don't be the monster they fear you are" can easily be taken as what Elsa was feeling at that moment. Almost as if he literally read her mind
Later when she was locked away in prison, he wanted her to just stop and bring back summer. Elsa (who was taught to fear her magic and lock it up) wants to know how to fully control her magic, and bring back summer as well, she just doesn't know how. (Before someone says "But the song Let it Go shows she accepts her powers". The First Time in Forever reprise shows she still fears her magic. "Yes I am alone but I am alone and free, just stay away and you will be safe from me )
Even the moment when he basically holds the middle finger up to Anna's face and doesn't save her, he is still mimicking. Only he isn't mimicking her desperation, he is mimicking the betrayal Anna felt from Elsa.
He literally changes his personality in every scene, so this isn't too farfetched. I mean characters change, but seriously nobody changes like that.
i mean it really wasnt and it was miles better than frozen but okay
I guess i'd have to say it was disappointing to me then.
I wasn't comparing it to Frozen nor do I like Frozen in the least bit, although I do have a strong bias against the movie.
In my opinion, while the songs were nice, I didn't feel like they were great. There was nothing that I found myself wanting to listen to again and neither did my 8 year old sister and her friends that went with us. I'm not saying that they should include lazy, cliche, catchy songs that you've heard a million times, but something about the way the lyrics went and beat of the songs just didn't mesh well in my head. Completely subjective though.
The animation was phenomenal, yes. It's Disney, what do you expect? But the whole time I watched I didn't see anything that surprised me. The colors were really bright and vibrant and the water was gorgeous, but it didn't stand out to me? Not to mention, lot's of the scenes were just Moana and Maui sailing on the sea, which wasn't very appealing to me. The whole scene with the crab seemed included to change the scenery simply because of how plain and uninteresting the sailing scenes were. I don't know what they could have included, mind you, as it is the sea and it is pretty boring, but I don't know. Something about it.
The dynamic and relationship between Maui and Moana was PERFECT. It had just enough humor, heart, and sass to keep me interested in both characters. However, just like almost every other movie with 2 main buddy characters, they did the stupid trope of some stupid fight where suddenly they hate each other. Like, it's just so annoying and unneeded everytime I see it. Why did he even come back to save her? Why did he leave her in the first place?! The fight was unneeded except to create the atmosphere to shove in another song and add impressive visuals.
The chicken was literally the stupidest ****ing thing I have seen in my entire life. The whole time, whenever the thing came on screen, everyone was laughing while I sat there thinking where was the joke. A retarded chicken (using the term literally) counts as humor now? Pecking wood instead of food and falling into the water not 2 or 3 times, but dozens of times, is funny? Yes, the first 2 or 3 times it happened, it was chuckle worthy, but then they just keep repeating the same joke with no variance and I just wanted the chicken to ****ing drown. The chicken literally ruined the whole movie for me, honestly. The humor between Moana and Maui was just SO GOOD, so there was NO reason to shove this stupid chicken into the mix. While I would say a saving grace for him was the fact Maui claims Moana is a Princess due to her having a pet sidekick, it feels like that single punchline was the only reason the chicken was on the boat. I'd rather the dog-pig have been on the boat instead of this chicken. The chicken did ONE thing, ONE. It wasn't needed at all.
Some nitpicky things that don't influence my opinions too much are things like some of the weak lines from Moana, the fact that they zoomed in to show the sand particles in her hair only to have it all disappear magically in the next scene, and a few other small things.
The plot was predictable and simple. But I mean, to be fair what else should I expect from Disney? Also, I was genuinely surprised about the twist at the end, and didn't see it coming.
If the goddness turned into the fire monster, how did she get to the border islands? If she was trapped on the border islands, how did she get there? Did the water do a Moses and let her cross only to trap her because apparently the sea is an asshole?
The saving grace had to be that it was self-aware of how cliched it was. It understood that it was the classic Disney Princess movie with the songs and the sidekicks, and that excused a few of the problems.
I'm not saying it's bad. I did enjoy the movie watching it and I felt I got my money's worth. I wasn't really bored at all during the movie and I found some parts to be funny, but I feel it could have just been so much better. Even with it having to conform to fit the Disney Princess theme, it could have done some things differently. It's even worse when every single person i talk to about it says it's a masterpiece and could be one of the greatest movies of 2016. I'm glad you enjoyed it and I'm glad you got what you wanted, but I just felt it was lacking.
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Gay 4 GARcher
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 03:23:22 14/12/2016 by DragonCamo
It's called Liar Reveled, and yeah, I'm really tied of that trope.
I don't think it's exactly the same thing. Usually Liar Revealed is when someone lies in order to get something they want and wind up actually making friends along the way, but then they all find out he lied and everyone hates him but it's okay in the end because he saves the day and blah blah blah. What they're talking about is just a side character turning out to be the villain in the end for a surprise twist.
Yeah I thought about my post whilst at work today, and kinda realized that what I said didn't really fit to well.
I agree that the surprise villain trope is being overused. Particularly Big Hero 6 could have benefitted from having a more overt villain with more screen time and character development.
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Just ate a time muffin and now I'm traveling through the time vortex.
Yokai the villian of big hero 6 was using hiro invention to save his daughter. That's when everyone went to stop him even though he did the portal to try save his daughter. I don't see villian in there mybe a bit but not as much. Sometimes villains do something evil to save someone or something
In Tarzan there example of betrayal with Clayton betraying everyone even Tarzan.
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"ryuujin no ken wo kurae!"
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 08:16:46 14/12/2016 by sky-dragon
Why do some people gotta get all pissy when people don't like a movie they do? I felt like Moana was the same Disney princess shtick but they were more self aware about it, so they got to have their cake and eat it too. That doesn't make it a bad movie it just made it....okay to me. It's weird I see so many people praise it so much just for not giving Moana a romantic interest.... that's such a low bar.
I hate the phrase "have your cake and eat it too." What else is your average person going to do with cake?
"Putting you off the new movies" as if Disney hasn't always been a box full of tropes throughout its history.
Did we forget in the beginning when every film they made featured a princess who's kind and young and beautiful but has an evil stepmother who locks her away while all she wants is a handsome prince to sweep him up and take him far away for a happy ending?
Playing things by the books is not a new thing for Disney. They're just taking from a different book.
Also Liar Revealed is a trope that's more associated with a protagonist pretending they're something they actually aren't (Shark Tale, Rango, Avatar, etc). Not so much an antagonist being revealed.
Don't forget the strong independent woman that is the main character in every single movie
I hate this trope, too.
Not to sound rude or anything (legit asking cause I want to write a thing with a female lead) but what about that "trope" is bad to you? What's an example of a good female protagonist? I've heard people be against the "strong independent female character" thing but I've never understood what they meant.
Don't forget the strong independent woman that is the main character in every single movie
I hate this trope, too.
Not to sound rude or anything (legit asking cause I want to write a thing with a female lead) but what about that "trope" is bad to you? What's an example of a good female protagonist? I've heard people be against the "strong independent female character" thing but I've never understood what they meant.
At least in my opinion, they tend to get annoying. There's is nothing wrong with strong female protagonists, even forgetting about all the girl empowerment and ****, but like everything else, it can be overused and misused. From what I see, as of late, many of these characters get really annoying and *****y to keep up their independence. They become *****y to everyone wanting to do stuff on their own, or going along the lines of "i'm a women so i don't need a man to help with this", or just being rebels with no reason to be such other than "i'm independent leave me alone I don't need your helpful advice"
EDIT: Also, it can tend to be the one thing about the character. Sometimes you can only describe the main character as an "Independent women" and she has no other defining characteristics, nothing to her character, or any motives.
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Gay 4 GARcher
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 04:45:08 18/12/2016 by DragonCamo
Don't forget the strong independent woman that is the main character in every single movie
I hate this trope, too.
Not to sound rude or anything (legit asking cause I want to write a thing with a female lead) but what about that "trope" is bad to you? What's an example of a good female protagonist? I've heard people be against the "strong independent female character" thing but I've never understood what they meant.
It annoys me because it's just bland by this point.
Not to sound rude or anything (legit asking cause I want to write a thing with a female lead) but what about that "trope" is bad to you? What's an example of a good female protagonist? I've heard people be against the "strong independent female character" thing but I've never understood what they meant.
It annoys me because it's just bland by this point.
If you were to write a thing with a female lead, what would you do differently?
Isn't it the argument of, say, the Cinderella remake when compared to characters like Rapunzel? Remake! Cinderella is said to be independent, but it's only because she "stands her ground despite her struggles"(read: waits for the plot to solve itself instead of doing anything about it). Meanwhile, Rapunzel does what she wants, tries to make plans, and does reckless things because she's SHOWN to be independent when given the chance rather than described as, since before she was sheltered.
It's like the previous trend of "strong female, character" vs "strong character, female" where you'd have to make a tomboy to appeal to the progressive side despite that never affecting the plot in any way. Maybe throw in the fact she does heavy work to "really" get to the point despite the fact any male character captures/binds her anyway if it's needed.
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Edited 1 time - Last edited at 15:45:44 18/12/2016 by Bifrost
If we want a "strong female lead" why don't the writers just write a character that is originally male, but then just change their gender to be female? We seem to have no complaints against male characters so why not just do that? Because I do agree, I'm a little sick of the strong woman trope myself. And that completely sucks to me. I want to be able to enjoy a movie with a lead female because there are so many movies out there that just don't have it ... but when people do do it the female characters are just annoying and bland, like their only personality is "strong female lead". But people have already said that before me in this thread, right?
Come to think of it, I thought of another problem with modern Disney movies: Their lack of a good villain. ...Which comes back around to the whole point about the hidden antagonists and stuff said earlier.
I mean, don't get me wrong, a movie doesn't NEED villains to tell a story, movies like Inside Out prove that, but damn it, Disney has had some great villains. Jafar, Ursula, Shere Khan, Captain Hook...
And then you have villains like Prince Hans and the secretary sheep from Zootopia, both of which I didn't find very memorable, have barely any motivation for their actions, and just seem to be tacked on for no reason other than "we need a bad guy".
In their next movies, I hope we get some better baddies, or, even if they're just a jerk, as long as they're interesting and I love to hate them.
Disney's pretty much trying to make up for all the years they spent enforcing stereotypes and following certain tropes that they're now doing whatever it takes to flip it over its head, even if it means becoming a trope itself.
Personally I'm a little tired of strong female character type too if the entire character is written around "look at what I can do even though I'm a girl". But has Disney really done that a whole lot lately? I'm talking Ghostbusters-level pandering.
Zootopia doesn't count because it was less Judy being female and more her being a non-predator.
Why even need a reason to have a particular character be a certain sex? You don't really need a reason for why they're male or female. Just make them male or female because you want them to be one or the other. As long as they're a well-written character there really shouldn't be a problem.
I'd argue both of the female protagonists in Frozen weren't strong independent womyn. Anna desperately sought love to the point where she threw herself on the first hansome man that gave her attention. Elsa was depressed, and let her fear control her.
I'd argue both of the female protagonists in Frozen weren't strong independent womyn. Anna desperately sought love to the point where she threw herself on the first hansome man that gave her attention. Elsa was depressed, and let her fear control her.
Elsa's still has more control in a situation than many other Disney princesses, even if she's emotionally unstable.
Though tbh I was just referring to why gender even matters to Disney.
i really like tiana and why has nobody mentioned her yet
Yeah, she's actually a well-used version of the trope.
And Dr. Facilier is a great villain, and he wasn't a secret plot twist. So yeah.
My problem is not Disney using the tropes. It's the handling and frequency. I like all their recent CGI movies, but they are using the same tropes pretty frequently. Maybe a film like Lion King will eventually appear and shake things up.
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Bruh
Edited 1 time - Last edited at 05:14:57 19/12/2016 by Crash10
What has disappointed me from Disney is that they are using many of their classics movies and turning them into live-action. It's like they have been lacking originality and are just making the same movies over again. The only live-action I really enjoyed was The Jungle Book. It's possibly even a little bit better than the original. And I haven't seen Pete's Dragon, but that's the only other one that interests me.
Disney is not what it use to be, and they only nail very few movies. In my opinion, I absolutely loved Zootopia. The concept was a little original, even if the plot wasn't that much. It has a great lesson though. Big Hery 6 was alright, though not incredibly great. I preferred How to Train Your Dragon and Song of the Sea. They aren't Disney, yet they were the more superior movies that year.
I recently saw Moana, and it wasn't what I expected. It's not that bad though. I absolutely loved those hand drawn scenes. You barely see any hand draw in animation today. And Frozen... well, I use to think I hated it, but now I realize that what I truly despise is the extremely overwhelming hype it still has. Merchandize about it everywhere! The movie itself was pretty good, and I loved the sisterly love message. What I think was a major flaw was that it tried to be too musical. It had musical numbers in scenes that, in my opinion, didn't need it at all. And Olaf wasn't that great of a sidekick, even if he was important to the story. And Sven acting like a dog? Seriously man, they did that with the horse in Tangled. Why does every animal has to act like a dog? That's a very overused trope. It's getting annoying.
Whew. That was an intense analysis
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Pretty sure that complaint appears on Zootopia's TVTropes page, actually. As in, people were hoping the plot would go down the full government conspiracy route and just have Mayor Lionheart as the Big Bad (I mean, he's Lion!Cave Johnson, so I could've gotten down with it). <.<
Portal fans are conditioned to see any character J.K. Simmons voices as Cave Johnson, so maybe it would've been too obvious to go down that path.
Pretty sure that complaint appears on Zootopia's TVTropes page, actually. As in, people were hoping the plot would go down the full government conspiracy route and just have Mayor Lionheart as the Big Bad (I mean, he's Lion!Cave Johnson, so I could've gotten down with it). <.<
Portal fans are conditioned to see any character J.K. Simmons voices as Cave Johnson, so maybe it would've been too obvious to go down that path.
Yeah. I watched it a few weeks ago and I half expected him to start screaming about combustible lemons.
Pretty sure that complaint appears on Zootopia's TVTropes page, actually. As in, people were hoping the plot would go down the full government conspiracy route and just have Mayor Lionheart as the Big Bad (I mean, he's Lion!Cave Johnson, so I could've gotten down with it). <.<
Portal fans are conditioned to see any character J.K. Simmons voices as Cave Johnson, so maybe it would've been too obvious to go down that path.
No, it's not that. The voicing he gave Lionheart is the Cave Johnson/J. Jonah Jameson voice, as opposed to his more subdued roles where his voice is noticeably deeper (see Law & Order, The Closer, Korra, Whiplash). <.<;
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What has disappointed me from Disney is that they are using many of their classics movies and turning them into live-action. It's like they have been lacking originality and are just making the same movies over again. The only live-action I really enjoyed was The Jungle Book. It's possibly even a little bit better than the original. And I haven't seen Pete's Dragon, but that's the only other one that interests me.
This is the closest thing that actually bothers me. Taking these huge animated classics and ensuring that we have to make a difference when talking about either the animated or live action adaptation.
Also how is a live action Lion King going to work? It's just going to be all CG regardless.
Otherwise I really don't see why everyone's getting into a fuss about what Disney is today. IMO Disney is the best it's been in a very long time, especially when you factor in Marvel and Star Wars. Back in the mid-2000s it was really just Pixar and sometimes the Pirates movies keeping them afloat, but now it seems like they realized that making quality entertainment is the best way to earn a profit.
Pretty sure that complaint appears on Zootopia's TVTropes page, actually. As in, people were hoping the plot would go down the full government conspiracy route and just have Mayor Lionheart as the Big Bad (I mean, he's Lion!Cave Johnson, so I could've gotten down with it). <.<
Portal fans are conditioned to see any character J.K. Simmons voices as Cave Johnson, so maybe it would've been too obvious to go down that path.
All I'm ever waiting for is for him to demand pictures of Spiderman.
I also personally think that Disney is going great. Almost all of their 2010's animated stuff is great (with few exceptions), most of their live-action stuff is good, and their treatment to their side companies is great (with the exception of Interactive Studios). I would say they are better than even the 90's.
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