darkSpyro

We all know what happened with the Harambe incident, and I have to ask you guys, do you think the parents of the child should be sued or prosecuted?

*Start of rant*
I believe that they should for irresponsibility that resulted in the death of Harambe. According to multiple articles, the child crawled through the fence and then fell into the enclosure. Don't you think that the mother should have been watching her child, and making sure what he was doing? And on her Facebook, she disregarded this by saying "accidents will happen." Excuse me, but your son falling into a gorilla enclosure that resulted in the death of a gorilla is not a dismissible accident. She should have been watching your three year old child, so this wouldn't have happened. It was her irresponsibility that resulted in Harambe's death, and the family should be held 100% responsible for it.
*End of rant*

So what are your thoughts on this incident? Should Harambe have justice, or is this something that should be water under the bridge?

I think that having their child death is enough punishment for their irresponsibility. In my opinion, the death of the gorilla was fault of the people rescuing the child, not the parents. Obviously, if they where taking care of the child, none of this would happen, but even parents commit errors, that sometimes end up like that. In my country (I don't know about the rest), people receive a lower punishment if they killed someone without intention, so maybe that's a good solution.

i believe, while a death penalty is not needed imo, people need to be held responsible. the parents, in specific. they should've watched their kid.

the rescuers for the kid had no other choice, really. gorillas are big. they are strong. they can hurt people. harambe was trying to nurture the child, but he wouldn't know his own strength. he could have accidentally killed the kid while trying to do something.

but zap what about tranqs tranquilizers wouldn't have worked, sadly. they don't work immediately. it takes AT LEAST 10 minutes for one to work, and that's the bare minimum. it would have taken a while for it to affect a big animal the size of harambe. and in that time, as i said earlier, harambe may have accidentally hurt/killed the kid.

but this entire incident would have been COMPLETELY AVOIDED of the parents were watching their kid. yes, accidents can happen, but this isn't an accident. this is more like negligence. negligence from the parents, by not paying attention to a 3 year old kid walking into a gorilla area. and it's only worse that the parents don't care.

but another point- gorillas shouldn't be in zoos, period. (imo)

they're like people. the behaviors shown by harambe when the child entered were not aggressive. they were the opposite- caring, nurturing, loving.

if a child showed up in your house one day, you'd take care of it. you'd nurture it. you'd love the child. the fact that the gorilla does these same behaviors is heavy evidence that they really shouldn't be put on display for people to gaze at.

to me, gorillas are like people. both humans and gorillas both do many things the same way. you could apply this to chimpanzees, orangutans, and other great apes. it's a personal view of mine that great apes shouldn't be in zoos.

in this kind of situation, there's a time to meme around and a time to analyze and be serious about the state of great apes.

so, i say this, in all seriousness,

harambe did nothing wrong.

I know small kids can easily slink away when you turn your back for just a second (especially when you're looking after several children), but the kid had to go under a rail, through some wires, and over a moat wall to get into the enclosure (Source). It's kind of ridiculous that she wasn't paying attention to him for long enough that he got through those obstacles without being detected. It's ESPECIALLY ridiculous considering that she should've kept a very close eye on him since he was saying that he wanted to get into the gorilla enclosure. Yes, small kids say stupid stuff sometimes that they won't act on, but sometimes they WILL do what they want if they find an opportunity. Not all small kids think about the consequences of their actions, and not all of them take "no" for an answer. That was a big red flag.

At least the zoo has bettered their enclosures now. I can't blame the zoo for what they did. Harambe didn't mean to cause harm to the child (if he really saw the child as a threat, he would've done something before the authorities came), but he could've accidentally hurt or even killed him by dragging him around like that. It's sad, but they did what they had to.

I don't really know how I feel about charging the mother. Again, I know he was a a rowdy kid and she had other kids to look after, but this accident easily could've been avoided, plus it does bother me that (I don't think) she ever expressed guilt or regret over what happened to Harambe. Plus her entire Facebook post about it (here) rubs me the wrong way tbh. Like, really bad. I do respect that the family has rejected people giving them donations (Source) but still, the kid was a giant walking red flag after he expressed interest in getting into the gorilla enclosure. Plus, you know, leashes for kids exist if you have a super hard time keeping track of them all in super crowded areas like zoos... But that's a moral issue for some people I guess. I dunno. I obviously don't have nor want kids so I'm not big in that debate.

Quote: Crash10

I think that having their child death is enough punishment for their irresponsibility.

Sorry if I misunderstood you, but the child didn't die in this case. He wasn't seriously injured or anything either.

Quote: LevanJess

Quote: Crash10

I think that having their child death is enough punishment for their irresponsibility.

Sorry if I misunderstood you, but the child didn't die in this case. He wasn't seriously injured or anything either.

Ooooooh, I tough the kid died.

So hey, why not a higher punishment?

/unpopular opinion.

Quote: parisruelz12

Reveal Spoiler

As sad as it is, the zookeepers themselves said that Harambe was already agitated when he was shot to death. Why? Because they already tried tranquilizers. You realize that an agitated gorilla can sit on a 200lbs man and kill him? Imagine what an agitated gorilla would do to a 3 year old kid. I personally feel as if the killing of Harambe was a necessary evil. Could it have been prevented? Yes. If the mother watched her kid. But here's the thing though, people are putting the life of an animal above the life of a human. A human that could be capable of great things. The gorilla would have lived and died in the zoo anyways. Yeah, the kid was stupid, but the kid was also 3. He barely had a chance to live. I don't mean to sound harsh, but animals aren't as sentient as we would like to believe. I know, gorilla's are intelligent, and we're related to them in some way..but that does not change the fact that it's still an animal. An animal capable of hurting things very easily.

/unpopular opinion.

As much as I prefer a gorilla 10000000 times over a kid, I think that I agree with you. Maybe there was no choice.

But we can't deny that it was not the gorilla's fault. Nor the zoo. I want to blame the kid but it's a 3 years-old kid, so yeah...

Oh, I don't think death penalty is necessary at all, but I do believe there shod be a fine.

Quote: ZapNorris

i believe, while a death penalty is not needed imo, people need to be held responsible. the parents, in specific. they should've watched their kid.

the rescuers for the kid had no other choice, really. gorillas are big. they are strong. they can hurt people. harambe was trying to nurture the child, but he wouldn't know his own strength. he could have accidentally killed the kid while trying to do something.

but zap what about tranqs tranquilizers wouldn't have worked, sadly. they don't work immediately. it takes AT LEAST 10 minutes for one to work, and that's the bare minimum. it would have taken a while for it to affect a big animal the size of harambe. and in that time, as i said earlier, harambe may have accidentally hurt/killed the kid.

but this entire incident would have been COMPLETELY AVOIDED of the parents were watching their kid. yes, accidents can happen, but this isn't an accident. this is more like negligence. negligence from the parents, by not paying attention to a 3 year old kid walking into a gorilla area. and it's only worse that the parents don't care.

but another point- gorillas shouldn't be in zoos, period. (imo)

they're like people. the behaviors shown by harambe when the child entered were not aggressive. they were the opposite- caring, nurturing, loving.

if a child showed up in your house one day, you'd take care of it. you'd nurture it. you'd love the child. the fact that the gorilla does these same behaviors is heavy evidence that they really shouldn't be put on display for people to gaze at.

to me, gorillas are like people. both humans and gorillas both do many things the same way. you could apply this to chimpanzees, orangutans, and other great apes. it's a personal view of mine that great apes shouldn't be in zoos.

in this kind of situation, there's a time to meme around and a time to analyze and be serious about the state of great apes.

so, i say this, in all seriousness,

harambe did nothing wrong.

This is exactly what I think.
Wow Zap, that was really deep...

Quote: Chompy-King257

Quote: ZapNorris

i believe, while a death penalty is not needed imo, people need to be held responsible. the parents, in specific. they should've watched their kid.

the rescuers for the kid had no other choice, really. gorillas are big. they are strong. they can hurt people. harambe was trying to nurture the child, but he wouldn't know his own strength. he could have accidentally killed the kid while trying to do something.

but zap what about tranqs tranquilizers wouldn't have worked, sadly. they don't work immediately. it takes AT LEAST 10 minutes for one to work, and that's the bare minimum. it would have taken a while for it to affect a big animal the size of harambe. and in that time, as i said earlier, harambe may have accidentally hurt/killed the kid.

but this entire incident would have been COMPLETELY AVOIDED of the parents were watching their kid. yes, accidents can happen, but this isn't an accident. this is more like negligence. negligence from the parents, by not paying attention to a 3 year old kid walking into a gorilla area. and it's only worse that the parents don't care.

but another point- gorillas shouldn't be in zoos, period. (imo)

they're like people. the behaviors shown by harambe when the child entered were not aggressive. they were the opposite- caring, nurturing, loving.

if a child showed up in your house one day, you'd take care of it. you'd nurture it. you'd love the child. the fact that the gorilla does these same behaviors is heavy evidence that they really shouldn't be put on display for people to gaze at.

to me, gorillas are like people. both humans and gorillas both do many things the same way. you could apply this to chimpanzees, orangutans, and other great apes. it's a personal view of mine that great apes shouldn't be in zoos.

in this kind of situation, there's a time to meme around and a time to analyze and be serious about the state of great apes.

so, i say this, in all seriousness,

harambe did nothing wrong.

This is exactly what I think.
Wow Zap, that was really deep...

there's a rare moment in s&n where i do serious posts.

Kids will be kids. The parents should NOT be prosecuted. However, whoever killed the gorilla should be.

@Zap, Silver back Gorilla's are endangered. I think it's necessary to keep them in zoo's to preserve the species, otherwise, they'll be wiped out. Saying "x doesn't belong in zoo" is kinda ignorant of you. It's like saying you'd rather see the species dead then alive. They can't be on wildlife preserves, either. People still come and poach them and kill them (see Cecil incident) Also, when multiple Tranqs are administered the effects speed up. They waited the time they were supposed too, and had no other choice.

Quote: Chompy-King257

Oh, I don't think death penalty is necessary at all, but I do believe there shod be a fine.

To who? The parents? The embarrassment and harassment on facebook is enough. It's not going to happen again. It was an accident and as Pam Tillis would say, Right now, you hate yourself, Cuz you knew better But there's no use crying Over spilled perfume.Also They already said they're not going to fine the parents. after the investigation, the officials found no signs of neglect. The mom also had 3 other kids she had to watch. As someone with 4 younger siblings (two of which are 5 and 5 months) do you know how hard it is keep an eye on all your kids at the same time? It gets a lttl stressful. Quoting CNN "Anyone who doesn't believe a 3 year old can scamper off..has never had children."

The zoo also shouldn't be fined because they did what they could and the child is okay.

Quote: Jaggedstar

Kids will be kids. The parents should NOT be prosecuted. However, whoever killed the gorilla should be.

Kids will be kids yeah, but if your child can't behave in public properly and as a parent you know this, you keep your child physically with you and in your sight at all times. Period. The parents put their child in danger by not properly watching him for a long enough time period that he was allowed to go into the enclosure.

And the rescuers who killed the gorilla did absolutely nothing wrong, they saved a human life.

Also I 10000% do not support zoos and I encourage anyone who has a local zoo not to either. Find a nature center or a wildlife rehabilitation center near you and go see the animals there, places like that are sooo much more animal friendly than zoos are.

There's no way they didn't investigate it. If the mother was at fault, hopefully she would've been prosecuted by now.

If they haven't, they should.

Quote: Metallo

There's no way they didn't investigate it. If the mother was at fault, hopefully she would've been prosecuted by now.

If they haven't, they should.

Several investigations have been done, and every single one has come back with "accidents happen, its best to move on."

Quote: parisruelz12

Quote: Metallo

There's no way they didn't investigate it. If the mother was at fault, hopefully she would've been prosecuted by now.

If they haven't, they should.

Several investigations have been done, and every single one has come back with "accidents happen, its best to move on."

Well that just foolish

Quote: Chompy-King257

Quote: parisruelz12

Quote: Metallo

There's no way they didn't investigate it. If the mother was at fault, hopefully she would've been prosecuted by now.

If they haven't, they should.

Several investigations have been done, and every single one has come back with "accidents happen, its best to move on."

Well that just foolish

What can they really do when it was an accident? Are they really going to prosecute a mom, with other kids, who looked away for a second? Do you really thing charging her is necessary when she really didn't do anything wrong?

Quote: parisruelz12

Quote: Chompy-King257

Quote: parisruelz12

Several investigations have been done, and every single one has come back with "accidents happen, its best to move on."

Well that just foolish

What can they really do when it was an accident? Are they really going to prosecute a mom, with other kids, who looked away for a second? Do you really thing charging her is necessary when she really didn't do anything wrong?

She should have been paying attention to her child.

Quote: Chompy-King257

Quote: parisruelz12

Quote: Chompy-King257

Well that just foolish

What can they really do when it was an accident? Are they really going to prosecute a mom, with other kids, who looked away for a second? Do you really thing charging her is necessary when she really didn't do anything wrong?

She should have been paying attention to her child.

I love repeating myself.

She had 3 other kids with her. Witnesses report that she kept telling the kid no and he did it anyways. He did it when she took her attention off of her kid for a second. She was obviously paying attention to one of her other kids. Again as an older sibling, it's hard to really focus on one kid, 3 other ones are trying to talk to you and get your attention. You can only multitask so much..Things like this happen, and saying that the mother is an awful mother for doing what she could is wrong and honesty really ignorant of you.

Quote: parisruelz12

Quote: Chompy-King257

Quote: parisruelz12

What can they really do when it was an accident? Are they really going to prosecute a mom, with other kids, who looked away for a second? Do you really thing charging her is necessary when she really didn't do anything wrong?

She should have been paying attention to her child.

I love repeating myself.

She had 3 other kids with her. Witnesses report that she kept telling the kid no and he did it anyways. He did it when she took her attention off of her kid for a second. She was obviously paying attention to one of her other kids. Again as an older sibling, it's hard to really focus on one kid, 3 other ones are trying to talk to you and get your attention. You can only multitask so much..Things like this happen, and saying that the mother is an awful mother for doing what she could is wrong and honesty really ignorant of you.

I apologize. I had missed the fact that she had multiple children with her.

If the parents can't handle responsibly, safely watching all 4 children, they shouldn't go to the zoo together.

Kid gets hit by a car ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ things happen
Kid drowns in public pool ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ kids will be kids
Kid is abducted by a stranger ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ what's a parent to do?

My 9 and 11 have a tendency to be kind of disruptive and defiant when we're doing something exciting, it's how kids are. When they become too much to handle, we hold hands until they call down. They don't get let out of my sight. There's plenty of times when we're grocery shopping or when I'm trying to do something serious that I would love to give all of my attention to whatever I'm doing, but I don't, because kids don't know better and you can't leave them unattended. It wasn't a split second thing that happened, he didn't trip over a small barrier and fall into the enclosure. He was left unsupervised long enough to climb over a few barriers and get into the enclosure. This was child negligence.

Quote: Bumblebunnii

If the parents can't handle responsibly, safely watching all 4 children, they shouldn't go to the zoo together.

Kid gets hit by a car ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ things happen
Kid drowns in public pool ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ kids will be kids
Kid is abducted by a stranger ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ what's a parent to do?

My 9 and 11 have a tendency to be kind of disruptive and defiant when we're doing something exciting, it's how kids are. When they become too much to handle, we hold hands until they call down. They don't get let out of my sight. There's plenty of times when we're grocery shopping or when I'm trying to do something serious that I would love to give all of my attention to whatever I'm doing, but I don't, because kids don't know better and you can't leave them unattended. It wasn't a split second thing that happened, he didn't trip over a small barrier and fall into the enclosure. He was left unsupervised long enough to climb over a few barriers and get into the enclosure. This was child negligence.

I agree with this.
Even if she did still have to watch all four children, what this user says is correct.

Quote: Bumblebunnii

If the parents can't handle responsibly, safely watching all 4 children, they shouldn't go to the zoo together.

Kid gets hit by a car ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ things happen
Kid drowns in public pool ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ kids will be kids
Kid is abducted by a stranger ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ what's a parent to do?

My 9 and 11 have a tendency to be kind of disruptive and defiant when we're doing something exciting, it's how kids are. When they become too much to handle, we hold hands until they call down. They don't get let out of my sight. There's plenty of times when we're grocery shopping or when I'm trying to do something serious that I would love to give all of my attention to whatever I'm doing, but I don't, because kids don't know better and you can't leave them unattended. It wasn't a split second thing that happened, he didn't trip over a small barrier and fall into the enclosure. He was left unsupervised long enough to climb over a few barriers and get into the enclosure. This was child negligence.

There's a 12 foot wall and a few bushes. It might not have been a split second thing, but it wasn't something that took 5 minutes either.



Here's another image, those look like the log fences at my local zoo. They're big enough for a kid to fit through. He obviously was got through those, went through the bushes and fell. Could the mohter have been paying more attention? Maybe. But in a large crowd where it's harder to keep track of one small person, letalong several of them. I get what you're trying to say, I really do, but I still thing it was neglect, but moreso a lack of better security on the zoo's part.

Everyone's a judge.

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