darkSpyro

So I wasn't even going to get back on to do this even though I wanted to, but I honestly felt like I should.
Before I get into my rant though, concerning last night, I'm cis. Anything I said about cis people last night was a joke. Calm yourselves.
Also I said that there are literally 5 billion kids in orphanages first of all. There's only 7 billion people on the planet. If you couldn't tell it was ****posting you should probably get off the internet, because you're going to run into a bunch of stuff like that elsewhere.

Okay, onto the point of this post. This concerns Windumup, Hi Windumup, and I highly suggest all of you read it.
You're bullies. A pretty large handful of you on here are bullies. This obviously doesn't apply to all of you, I've gotten to know quite a bit of you on here and you're great, but a lot of S&N is very toxic.
I don't care how annoying you find someone, it does not give you a right to straight up bully them. It's not trolling, it's not joking around, it's bullying. You guys jump on the Windumup hate bandwagon and target her specifically no matter what stupid **** anyone else in the topic is saying. It's not funny, it's not cute, it's not cool, it's not edgy, it's ****ing mean. Like it's genuinely mean. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you guys have probably been bullied at least once in your life. You know how it feels. Why do it to someone else?
Windumup probably uses this place as an escape, like most of us do, so why make this a horrible place for her too? If she says something that you don't like and someone calls her out for it 10 other people don't need to do the same. That's when it's bullying. That's when it goes beyond making your point. It's unnecessary and it's mean. Obviously there's no malicious intent in anything that she says, ever. So why be a dick? You can calmly and politely explain yourself to her if something offends you without having to be bullies.

I'm not going to be monitoring this, so feel free to say whatever but there's no point in trying to justify your bullying. Mods can delete this if they feel it's necessary, this is the last post I'm going to be making on this site.
Thank you to everyone that's been so nice and friendly on here, I genuinely do like talking to a lot of you. <3

o my god
finally someone that gets it
thank you *claps*

I agree with this completely.

you can't deny that 80% of S&N are toxic bullies

I mean, I'm not exempt, I've gone too far with windumup, but I can at least admit what I said was wrong and that it was crossing a line. it's just so easy to attack her because she doesn't understand ****posting or sarcasm like we do, so we do it for jollies, but it's like, at what point does it become attacking, and it has been attacking and bullying for so long now. Like, we all say stupid ****, and windumup is still young, look back at your posts or yourself four years ago, did you like the person you were? were you not stupid and cringey? I mean, ****, most of the users here are really dumb a lot of the time and no one calls them out, so why do we always call windumup out?

She could have a mental disorder that prevents her from understanding sarcasm, just like some forms of autism do, like she can't help who she is

I just think it's dumb cuz what if we reach a point where we put windumup on suicide watch, like "oh haha it's funny" yea you say that now, but someone could ****ing get hurt badly

..... time to rethink everything....

Seriously.... I had no idea this was going on....

I come back to see this well golly what have I missed and why the heck has this happen come on guys how many times has this been going on! Another user gone seriously what have I been missing!

If you guys noticed I barely even touch these topics because it's obvious the "joke" if there is any, will be taken too far. Windumup is no saint but people have really taken to drop the posting part of ****posting as long as it expresses they don't like when she's around. But hey, calling out both sides is complaining about complaining the only ones listening don't need to hear it and those that do just keep on doing it, at this point it is a worry if it'll take someone getting in the way of harm for it to stop entirely.

Outsiders speak the truth.

Here's the thing about last night I kind of had no idea that you were joking as well as a few others. Because we didn't know you too well or just flat out are unfamiliar with such humor. So it's my bad on my end for being clueless until the last minute. And I am sorry for not doing my homework on jokes.

As for the Windumup paragraph honestly I kind of agree. Although there are some things that Windumup has done to deserve being called out on some posts, it does feel like at least 5 people jump on them on a post that didn't need to be called out or 1 person making a thread about it. Which kind of needs to stop or calm the heck down. I'm no saint on this, I have called them out on several occasions, normally not for trolling reasons, but more of a "why and what are doing or saying that?" sort of reason. But still it should be 1-2 people trying to make a point not a freaking army.

Quote: Trix Master 100

Here's the thing about last night I kind of had no idea that you were joking as well as a few others. Because we didn't know you too well or just flat out are unfamiliar with such humor. So it's my bad on my end for being clueless until the last minute. And I am sorry for not doing my homework on jokes.

As for the Windumup paragraph honestly I kind of agree. Although there are some things that Windumup has done to deserve being called out on some posts, it does feel like at least 5 people jump on them on a post that didn't need to be called out or 1 person making a thread about it. Which kind of needs to stop or calm the heck down. I'm no saint on this, I have called them out on several occasions, normally not for trolling reasons, but more of a "why and what are doing or saying that?" sort of reason. But still it should be 1-2 people trying to make a point not a freaking army.

Five billion kids in orphanages
seven billion people on earth

it was so obvious even without that

I do kind of wonder if it's grounds for reporting as harassment yet though. With all the ****posting and hyperbole it'll probably be just a context issue sometimes, but imho if it didn't stop on its own yet it might need enforcement. My opinion tho, in the ends it's up to the mods.

Quote: Bifrost

I do kind of wonder if it's grounds for reporting as harassment yet though. With all the ****posting and hyperbole it'll probably be just a context issue sometimes, but imho if it didn't stop on its own yet it might need enforcement. My opinion tho, in the ends it's up to the mods.

I think we need a bit more enforcing, but just in terms of the bullying aspect, like if an obvious line is crossed

I should be studying instead of lurking, but after this ****storm, I decided that I'm taking action.

For the most part, I agree with Bumblebunnii. Yeah, I know, I've **** on Windumup a few too many times too, I'm a hypocrite, ****ing sue me, I'm working on not being a total *****. Even if Windumup does something we here on S&N deem problematic, we don't need The Asshat Brigade to come in and pummel her into the ground. Like it or not, on dS we're sort of a family. Granted, we're a really, REALLY dysfunctional family, but family none the less. We shouldn't treat others like they're some kind of digital punching bag. There are people on the other end of that account you're insulting. You don't have to like them, you don't have to even talk to them, but realize your actions have consequences. Every punch comes at a cost. If you don't think that your words can harm someone, then you need a reality check. Treating people decent isn't that hard.

Windumup also has some issues, most of which were covered expertly by Baro in the other topic.
Quote: Spyrobaro

Quote: Windumup

Well most people think gender is not a choice so it does mess with the numbers.

It's not a choice.

The whole entire point of the LGBT+ movement is that gender and sexuality aren't a choice, but everybody should accept each other even if they're different from them. It's that LGBT+ identities should be seen as normal, not as either something to scorn or something that makes you special (depending on which side of the spectrum you're on). Your posts for the last few months on this subject have gone from cringe-worthy to legitimately concerning. You act as if you just watched a few videos on YouTube rather than putting in the time and effort to do more in-depth research, and that you instantly assume that everybody in those videos knows exactly what they're talking about. You're lapping up extremist beliefs like they're candy or something, reminding everyone all the time that you're this or that. It makes it very hard to take you seriously.

Windumup hasn't been learning. Like, at all. As Baro said, it's like she just watched a couple of YouTube videos and ran with it, and didn't do any actual research. She hasn't done the research pretty much from the very beginning when she came out as trans. A lot of people, both in real life AND on the Internet aren't going to take you seriously if you shove extremely skewed beliefs in their face. That's something Windumup has hopefully learned from last night. If not, there's always room for improvement. She needs to do some research on actual LGBT+ stuff, and get her mind out of the "special snowflake" place. Windumup has this sort of romanticized view of LGBT+ issues, and isn't taking it as seriously as she should. Just because you're trans, gay, asexual, whatever, that doesn't give you automatic respect.

/endrant

Quote: Lunarz

Quote: Trix Master 100

Here's the thing about last night I kind of had no idea that you were joking as well as a few others. Because we didn't know you too well or just flat out are unfamiliar with such humor. So it's my bad on my end for being clueless until the last minute. And I am sorry for not doing my homework on jokes.

As for the Windumup paragraph honestly I kind of agree. Although there are some things that Windumup has done to deserve being called out on some posts, it does feel like at least 5 people jump on them on a post that didn't need to be called out or 1 person making a thread about it. Which kind of needs to stop or calm the heck down. I'm no saint on this, I have called them out on several occasions, normally not for trolling reasons, but more of a "why and what are doing or saying that?" sort of reason. But still it should be 1-2 people trying to make a point not a freaking army.

Five billion kids in orphanages
seven billion people on earth

it was so obvious even without that

True. Atm I was thinking that a million was more than a billion. Then again I was being quite stupid and blinded by some rage. I do apologize for my behavior.

Quote: StriderSwag

I should be studying instead of lurking, but after this ****storm, I decided that I'm taking action.

For the most part, I agree with Bumblebunnii. Yeah, I know, I've **** on Windumup a few too many times too, I'm a hypocrite, ****ing sue me, I'm working on not being a total *****. Even if Windumup does something we here on S&N deem problematic, we don't need The Asshat Brigade to come in and pummel her into the ground. Like it or not, on dS we're sort of a family. Granted, we're a really, REALLY dysfunctional family, but family none the less. We shouldn't treat others like they're some kind of digital punching bag. There are people on the other end of that account you're insulting. You don't have to like them, you don't have to even talk to them, but realize your actions have consequences. Every punch comes at a cost. If you don't think that your words can harm someone, then you need a reality check. Treating people decent isn't that hard.

Windumup also has some issues, most of which were covered expertly by Baro in the other topic.
Quote: Spyrobaro

Quote: Windumup

Well most people think gender is not a choice so it does mess with the numbers.

It's not a choice.

The whole entire point of the LGBT+ movement is that gender and sexuality aren't a choice, but everybody should accept each other even if they're different from them. It's that LGBT+ identities should be seen as normal, not as either something to scorn or something that makes you special (depending on which side of the spectrum you're on). Your posts for the last few months on this subject have gone from cringe-worthy to legitimately concerning. You act as if you just watched a few videos on YouTube rather than putting in the time and effort to do more in-depth research, and that you instantly assume that everybody in those videos knows exactly what they're talking about. You're lapping up extremist beliefs like they're candy or something, reminding everyone all the time that you're this or that. It makes it very hard to take you seriously.

Windumup hasn't been learning. Like, at all. As Baro said, it's like she just watched a couple of YouTube videos and ran with it, and didn't do any actual research. She hasn't done the research pretty much from the very beginning when she came out as trans. A lot of people, both in real life AND on the Internet aren't going to take you seriously if you shove extremely skewed beliefs in their face. That's something Windumup has hopefully learned from last night. If not, there's always room for improvement. She needs to do some research on actual LGBT+ stuff, and get her mind out of the "special snowflake" place. Windumup has this sort of romanticized view of LGBT+ issues, and isn't taking it as seriously as she should. Just because you're trans, gay, asexual, whatever, that doesn't give you automatic respect.

/endrant

tbh i agree with you

she doesn't deserve to be bullied, but she has realize why people are pissed at her a lot

Quote: StriderSwag

I should be studying instead of lurking, but after this ****storm, I decided that I'm taking action.

For the most part, I agree with Bumblebunnii. Yeah, I know, I've **** on Windumup a few too many times too, I'm a hypocrite, ****ing sue me, I'm working on not being a total *****. Even if Windumup does something we here on S&N deem problematic, we don't need The Asshat Brigade to come in and pummel her into the ground. Like it or not, on dS we're sort of a family. Granted, we're a really, REALLY dysfunctional family, but family none the less. We shouldn't treat others like they're some kind of digital punching bag. There are people on the other end of that account you're insulting. You don't have to like them, you don't have to even talk to them, but realize your actions have consequences. Every punch comes at a cost. If you don't think that your words can harm someone, then you need a reality check. Treating people decent isn't that hard.

Windumup also has some issues, most of which were covered expertly by Baro in the other topic.
Quote: Spyrobaro

Quote: Windumup

Well most people think gender is not a choice so it does mess with the numbers.

It's not a choice.

The whole entire point of the LGBT+ movement is that gender and sexuality aren't a choice, but everybody should accept each other even if they're different from them. It's that LGBT+ identities should be seen as normal, not as either something to scorn or something that makes you special (depending on which side of the spectrum you're on). Your posts for the last few months on this subject have gone from cringe-worthy to legitimately concerning. You act as if you just watched a few videos on YouTube rather than putting in the time and effort to do more in-depth research, and that you instantly assume that everybody in those videos knows exactly what they're talking about. You're lapping up extremist beliefs like they're candy or something, reminding everyone all the time that you're this or that. It makes it very hard to take you seriously.

Windumup hasn't been learning. Like, at all. As Baro said, it's like she just watched a couple of YouTube videos and ran with it, and didn't do any actual research. She hasn't done the research pretty much from the very beginning when she came out as trans. A lot of people, both in real life AND on the Internet aren't going to take you seriously if you shove extremely skewed beliefs in their face. That's something Windumup has hopefully learned from last night. If not, there's always room for improvement. She needs to do some research on actual LGBT+ stuff, and get her mind out of the "special snowflake" place. Windumup has this sort of romanticized view of LGBT+ issues, and isn't taking it as seriously as she should. Just because you're trans, gay, asexual, whatever, that doesn't give you automatic respect.

/endrant

I do agree with BB, but I also agree with Strider on this. I'm a hypocritical ***** considering I'm a big, if not the biggest ass, on dS. I've been working on it, slowly. There are a few topics that I would have started a fight in a year ago that I didn't even post in this year. (2015-2016) and at least I know when I'm wrong about something.

What I'm saying is that it's entirely one group of people's fault. It's the fault of all the people who participated last night. I'm sorry to Windumup. However, you need to work on the issues that strider posted above. I need to work on a few things myself.

I was away for less than 24 hours...what happened???

Quote: Samius

Not to go morbid on you, but this thing sorta reminds me of that one case where the kid who threatened others with a toy gun in public got shot by the police.
Now, obviously nothing that serious is happening here, so why is that? Well, my point is this: It was bad, and I wish it hadn't happened, but I can kinda see why it happened. The same goes with this case.

Whenever I see somebody getting bullied, I wish the bullies would know well enough to take it upon themselves to raise themselves above that kinda behavior.
But, whenever that somebody is getting bullied for saying or doing something strange or stupid, I also think that the person in question should learn not to do that. If not for any other reason, then simply to avoid such confrontations in the future.
No-one can live a completely sheltered life, not IRL and not online. The only thing we have to rely on to not get us in trouble is our own behavior, since it is completely in our own hands. Thus, I think everybody should mind theirs.

As for the bullying that you mentioned; I have noticed the same thing happening myself. People do focus on Windumup's posts and tend to attack any opinions of hers that they disagree on, but it's not all done deliberately to make her feel bad and unwelcomed, so calling all of it "bullying" is taking it a bit far IMO. Actual trolling does happen from time to time though, and we do try to weed it out with the help of reports.

Anyway, since replying to posts is not an offense (unless it turns into harassment or insults), I can only really urge everyone to think before they post.

but that's not how bullying works???? Bullies don't give a **** about who theyre hurting as long as it makes them feel powerful, they don't care who they hurt or to know better, and if you see someone getting bullied why wouldn't you step in? I mean, I'm no saint, i should've stepped in before but like, if you know it's bullying then step in

that's basically like saying it's the persons fault for getting bullied, despite just being themselves
If someone was getting bullied by jocks cuz they liked Pokemon, should they stop liking Pokemon so they won't get bullied? No.
it's also entirely possible that kid being bullied has a mental disability that makes it hard for them to be quote unquote "Normal" and mesh in with everyone else, they can't help it

People should think before they speak but like, i know we had a whole thing with moderators in the past where we went through a period of "oh they don't do anything" and while it's gotten better, stuff like this, like bullying, gets ignored. And there is such a fine line between trolling and bullying, if the trolling was spread out I could understand, but most of the "trolling" goes towards windumup and that can't be denied, it's bullying a lot of the time, or at the very least it's attacking due to windumup being an easy target

I know Paris does a lot for one about telling people to ease off so it's not like nothing is being done, but it's just annoying cuz every single topic windumup is in, someone insults her, you can quote me on that too. So, obviously it is bullying if every time she posts she's attacked, it doesn't matter if she says something we don't like, or disagree with or is stupid, it's not our place to be a dick to her because of it

Adios.

I really try not to be in a negative mood when I'm on this website but the fact that this is being talked about AGAIN really struck a nerve with me.

I know it's redundant for me to say this kind of toxicity needs to stop, but it really needs to be emphasized. How many topics like this have we had since 2016 began? How many topics about this were made back in 2015? How many times has this section had this SAME EXACT CONVERSATION over and over again?

Everyone really needs to work on their behavior and actions at a faster pace. It feels like this toxic nature in S&N never goes away and I honestly feel like it's because people don't have the motivation to change. Everyone says they're working on trying to not be rude or be bullies or whatever, and I get it. we make mistakes. We're all human. I doubt Windumup was trying to offend anyone and I doubt everyone was intentionally trying to dogpile on Windumup again. But everyone always says in these conversations that there needs to be change and IT NEVER HAPPENS. Users talk about how they want things to be better but it really seems like no one ever really makes the effort to change and get rid of S&N's toxicity. And until we crack down on change, then it's never going to change. We're just going to keep coming back to the same exact conversation about S&N's problems and they're never going to be solved because no one is going to take the extra mile to enforce that change and try their best to make change happen.

I'm sorry if this ends up offending anyone. That's not my intent at all. I know most(if not, all) people really are trying to make S&N and dS in general a much better website to be on, and are just as tired of all the negativity as I am. I am well aware that people really are trying their hardest to change themselves as well. But I'm just so tired of seeing this conversation pop up over and over again and them having absolutely no impact over and over again. We keep pitting ourselves back to square one and I honestly think at this point, if we don't crack down on enforcing change, then it will never happen.

Think of it this way. Before you post, ask yourself if what you're saying is something you could honestly say to that same someone face to face. When posting, remember that the other people posting are just as human as you are. No matter what kind of person they are.

And I'll leave it with reinforcing this statement I made on a similar previous topic, because I really want to emphasize it:

Quote:

A long while back, I talked with a friend of mine about this website and my experience with it, and one thing they asked was why I go on this website specifically, let alone stay on it for so long. My first initial response was that I enjoyed the community itself more so than other websites. Every other fansite I've been on I've either not been interested in long enough or I didn't feel very welcome on it. I noticed since I had this conversation that I also stay because I have a ton of common interests with people on here, and I enjoy debating on certain topics, whether it's a serious subject or not.

But what stood out to me was that one of my initial responses when I had this conversation was that "I liked how generally accepting the community is compared to other websites I've been on." And i specifically remember this conversation because of this specific statement. After I had this conversation with my friend, I noticed that there are more fights and arguments on here than I thought there were. i noticed a lot more how users typically liked to pile up on other users, whether it was civil or not and whether it was intentional or not(admittedly I have done this too before). So I typically asked myself the question since then: Why did I think it was generally accepting when drama happens a lot more often than it should?

And with topics like these existing every now and then, I think the reason I initially thought that is because this community does have the potential to be accepting. What I've noticed with topics like these is that people on this site are constantly trying to struggle between being a loving community and just jumping on anyone who doesn't agree with them. What I've noticed is that this site struggles a lot because the community here knows that they can be accepting, but generally it misses the mark because it's very easy to lose sight of that on the internet.

And I think that's why I love this site and speaking to the community so much. Because users on dS try their absolute hardest to be generally accepting. As I said before, sometimes I didn't exactly feel welcome on other websites. but this website actually put up with some of the over-the-top hyperactivity I spammed back when I joined almost 6 years ago. And that's what I enjoy about the site most, that people want to be nice and kind on here, even when drama brings problems on here.

This website has me coming back all the time because through topics like this, debating topics that stay civil, simple topics to talk about dumb stuff, and just the stupid stuff that gets posted on this board, I know that this website has been one of the nicest before, and it tries its hardest to be one of the nicest even when negativity starts to brew. It's why I've stayed for almost 6 years and it's why I plan to stay for a lot longer in the future.

We have the potential to be a great community and we have been before. But until we try our damned hardest to change the current negativity level that this website has, we will always be coming back to these conversations and we'll always be riding that line between being good-natured and chaotic.

I was thinking of making a post like this before but was waiting for a good example so that way I don't get hit with the "it wasn't that bad this time" excuse that I've heard way too often when trying to talk about problems. It wouldn't surprise me if this particular situation also gets the same response of "you're overreacting nothing is wrong" but to be honest I am so sick of hearing that line being used by some people to avoid discussing such problems.

But I agree. Particularly about Windumup related things.

Yeah Windumup tends to make mistakes and say things that puts them in hot water but it pretty much always escalates into drama because other people react to it and gang up on them en mass. This should not be acceptable and I'm honestly really ****ing sick and tired of getting notifications in the mod Skype group about how something related to Windumup is going down yet again.

And as much as I've vouched and defended them time and time again in the past, some of the blame is on the Skype group here. The Skype group is absolutely a clique mentality (among the best examples of such on the site outside of S&N itself with users who aren't in the group) and when one person in the group mentions something about what Windumup is doing everybody needs to run in and get their two cents in. Not just exclusive to Windumup either; but also other members on the forum (not just S&N) that are considered "controversial" or "difficult" And yeah I'm including myself in that pattern of taking note and going in to post more often than not. And while speaking your mind on the matter is perfectly fine and I openly encourage it (and don't want to discourage speaking in the group on dS matters; the group is unbound by site rules and nothing is going to change that), there is one thing that I want to really make clear.

Keep the bile out of the damn site.

Unfortunately there are some people in that group that love to troll and **** around with someone even if they aren't in on the joke and there have been cases of it being taken too far, especially with people like Windumup. Or some people who might get a little over zealous and boil themselves to the point of attacking. That **** shouldn't be ok and the "it wasn't even that bad" excuse is getting old.

And god ****ing forbid I delete something from there, or something from someone people actually like. The level of "why was this removed it wasn't that bad" lines I've gotten is asinine. The problem is that this is not ****ing 4chan. We all loved to say that to zer0 back when he was doing his **** (and don't get me wrong he was worse than anyone currently here). But it seems to have been forgotten that while some playful teasing or trolling is fine here and there it's only acceptable when it's someone who's perfectly fine with that and/or is in on the joke.

And don't think this is an exclusive thing to either Windumup or Skype group stuff. Let's not forget Pokemon2. Yeah yeah I see the people lining up to get on me for how I've made posts towards him about his lists but I never resorted to saying "your music taste is **** stop posting" like some people here, including those who have actually spoken out against bullying and are doing so right above me have done in the not-so-distant past. Don't try and act like a saint.

---------------------------------------------------

Little anecdote time...

I'm aware that I used to be super blunt and harsh myself. I wasn't very kind to new users, I was a part of that clique mentality (I still am), and I had that reputation for being the serious brutally honest one that was hard to approach. Thing is that's changed over the years specifically because I left this site.

In 2013 I jumped ship from dS to a site known as EqF (doesn't exist anymore; merged with another). While there I realized just how hard it really is to be a new user on a site with a major mob mentality. The site was loaded with cliques and groups of people who were friends with each other and didn't really give a **** about new guys (or would act like they gave a **** only to pay no mind). I tried my damnest to get in with them over the course of the year in attempt to start fresh after what was, at the time, a less than graceful departure from dS. But I was largely shut out and ignored in favor of other, more popular users. This went on and on until I finally called it quits and left that fall, and returned to dS in early 2014.

It was there, being shunned out, that I remembered being a new guy is tough in any social group, IRL or online. I was so used to being one of the popular kids that I forgot how others could be treated. It's a ****ty feeling and I'm pretty sure many of you are familiar with it, whether it be when you first joined here or some other forum, or when you try(ied?) to join a social circle in person. You probably felt alone, like people were ignoring you, like nobody wanted anything to do with you. And if this happened in person, perhaps you felt like at least you could go to dS as an escape to where you do have friends who care about you. That you can joke around with and play games or discuss games or whatnot.

So for someone like Windumup, a user who has been here for nearly 3 years now, is still going through something like that; that's just not cool. I'm aware that Windumup makes mistakes. Regularly makes mistakes. I am just as likely to call them out on them as anyone else will. But there's also a matter of being civil about it, not resorting to attacks or trolling, and learning when to drop it when the matter is finished (this one applies just as much to Windumup as everyone else).

Like Bumble has said, this is likely an escape for Windumup as well. I've seen Windumup's posts in PT and they clearly have issues affecting them in person, most particularly their father. This site is likely an escape from those problems and instead it becomes a problem to them. And instead of leave despite the trouble and trolling surrounding them, Windumup has still remained on here, which really is something to be commended and a sign that this is someone who really wants to be here (that or someone who is hardcore trolling and we all fell for it).

I'm really tired of having to deal with drama surrounding this one particular user. And while a decent chunk of the drama can happen because they say something that's controversial or inaccurate, a good chunk of that is other people choosing to react in negative ways or even poke the bear beforehand. And while us mods are here to maintain the rules and break up fights, we shouldn't have to be around 24/7 babysitting people who are old enough to know that bullying is wrong (especially if they've been victim of it themselves at some point).

Even if you don't necessarily like someone, unless they've done something to you personally to warrant your scorn, please act like a decent person.

Quote: Sesshomaru75

Yeah, I really don't see the point of repeating this preachy rant every couple of months if no one is actually going to make any effort to change, Windumup included.

What do you propose as an alternative?

I'd rather not have users like Bumble and Avatari constantly leaving.

Basically, calling out or joking VERY MUCH different from trolling or bullying.

I'm still proposing mods stepping in. People don't get the message? Gnorc more. Ripto someone if necessary. Maybe when that "fun" is outlawed we understand that it wasn't funny at all. It's absolutely stupid someone has to babysit 19 year olds but it feels necessary if it reached such a point that people are leaving and being a-holes even over this very subject(because will you look at that Windumup's thread has someone telling her it's not a big deal).

Quote: Bifrost

I'm still proposing mods stepping in. People don't get the message? Gnorc more. Ripto someone if necessary. Maybe when that "fun" is outlawed we understand that it wasn't funny at all. It's absolutely stupid someone has to babysit 19 year olds but it feels necessary if it reached such a point that people are leaving and being a-holes even over this very subject(because will you look at that Windumup's thread has someone telling her it's not a big deal).

I look forward to the follow up topic calling mods too harsh.

The biggest problem is that S&N was made to be more lenient than other sections of the site, so therefore not every single rule can translate as rigidly here as it would in Skylanders (except the obvious ones like no porn). So as a result there's no clearly defined line for something like trolling or harassment and it gets treated on a case by case basis (if there's even mods online to begin with).
We were able to define what is and isn't appropriate as far as sexual/violent content/discussion is concerned. Best I can try is to round up other mods and try a similar deal for trolling and harassment (even though it should be rather clear already).

Tough luck if they don't like harsh then. People proved they aren't deserving the lenient modding. Of course, that's the person outside the issue talking,but I hope I'd show some maturity and just grit my teeth if I got a timeout gnorc at some point, because I probably needed it.

tbh I trust most of the mods, such as CAV

so whatever he thinks is best I'll follow. I don't believe gnorcs are necessary but MM's maybe, whenever I get one I'm terrified

I actually agree that we are bullies. All of us are anti social and want to be an elitist like the so called popular kids. We act as if they're assholes yet we act like them on the internet where we have no history or faces. We are in incognito mode and are allowed to do anything we want with our internet persona. We become what we always wanted to be in real life. The guy that has lots of friends and picks on everybody else. We see somebody that could be us in real life and harass them because we want to be like the so called popular kid that picks on us. We are just as bad as bullies in real life and this toxic behavior repels me from this site everyday.

Quote: somePerson

I actually agree that we are bullies. All of us are anti social and want to be an elitist like the so called popular kids. We act as if they're assholes yet we act like them on the internet where we have no history or faces. We are in incognito mode and are allowed to do anything we want with our internet persona. We become what we always wanted to be in real life. The guy that has lots of friends and picks on everybody else. We see somebody that could be us in real life and harass them because we want to be like the so called popular kid that picks on us. We are just as bad as bullies in real life and this toxic behavior repels me from this site everyday.

tbh I said this exact same thing earlier to a few other users.

Teenagers on an internet forum for a family friendly video game are incapable of treating each other with normal, socially acceptable tact.

News at 11.

I'll admit first hand that I'm probably the most hesitant to pull the trigger on suspensions on the mod team (or at least the part that we're in contact with). Multiple times other mods in the group have suggested, discussed, or even came really close to suspending people and I often ended up blocking it (though more than once it has been because it wouldn't be justified; such as an instance where Windumup being suspended was a proposition).

I tend to prefer prevention methods. Not allowing the event to take place to begin with. Unfortunately this had lead to incidents where I've closed threads before anything bad actually happened on the assumption that "it's going to go down soon". It's an issue that, while possibly been done to actually prevent what may have been drama or inappropriate behavior, has also lead to me jumping the gun too soon.

Can't you just use gnorcs though? It's not permanent,and it was done to some users who like to derail on the Skylanders boards quite a lot, though they're "smart" enough to come back with a victim card. If the user has to leave for an hour or day, can't post and it's time for them to think about how far they went to get that. If they take that to ragequit, then it's because they're not willing to learn.

its kinda ridiculous that a user that causes so much trouble and may even be a troll themselves is constantly allowed to run amock on the site

Quote: arceustheprime

its kinda ridiculous that a user that causes so much trouble and may even be a troll themselves is constantly allowed to run amock on the site

I agree you need to be reigned in.

EDIT: Really though Windumup isn't actually allowed to run around on the site because they're being dog piled by everyone on it. Mods step in to control and tell them to stop when they're going too far and actually breaking rules.
And frankly the majority of cases where mods have discussed suspending Windumup are cases where they weren't really breaking the rules yet.

Quote: CAV

Quote: arceustheprime

its kinda ridiculous that a user that causes so much trouble and may even be a troll themselves is constantly allowed to run amock on the site

I agree you need to be reigned in.

EDIT: Really though Windumup isn't actually allowed to run around on the site because they're being dog piled by everyone on it. Mods step in to control and tell them to stop when they're going too far and actually breaking rules.
And frankly the majority of cases where mods have discussed suspending Windumup are cases where they weren't really breaking the rules yet.

IM GOING TO JAIL GOODBYE GUYS

edit 2- though that dog piling involves three topics and an extra topic about bullying and just causes a mess

she may not be breaking the rules but it does get annoying when she doesn't listen to anyone and makes dumb posts to bait everyone into replying

Quote: Bifrost

Can't you just use gnorcs though? It's not permanent,and it was done to some users who like to derail on the Skylanders boards quite a lot, though they're "smart" enough to come back with a victim card. If the user has to leave for an hour or day, can't post and it's time for them to think about how far they went to get that. If they take that to ragequit, then it's because they're not willing to learn.

This.
Also, mods please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they stay on your account forever? If people were gnorced, over time you could tell who the problem is.

Quote: arceustheprime

its kinda ridiculous that a user that causes so much trouble and may even be a troll themselves is constantly allowed to run amock on the site

It's kinda ridiculous that we have to have the same goddamn conversation over and over about the exact same user when the drama isn't even completely their fault.
Windumup needs to learn right now, that's it. There's no conversation past that. We need to be more welcoming, not more ostracizing.

Quote: arceustheprime

Quote: CAV

Quote: arceustheprime

its kinda ridiculous that a user that causes so much trouble and may even be a troll themselves is constantly allowed to run amock on the site

I agree you need to be reigned in.

IM GOING TO JAIL GOODBYE GUYS

rip i hardly knew ye

Serious time. I have been trying to be not bad about this myself. I know I may still respond to some of Windumup's posts, but I try to avoid them from coming off as bullying or piling on. I will admit I'm not always good about this and that doesn't just concern Windumump. However, this issue does continue to come up and I do agree that something needs to change. I do support the idea of mods stepping in to control the situation. If I am suspended for a post I made that was bullying, then I will know I deserved it as I do often look back after such a post and feel I could've worded it better or perhaps done better to not have posted at all.

Quote: Drawdler

^ no, i got an mm a couple weeks ago and it disappeared this morning

I think it's just gnorcs that stay, though I had a warning over a thread that stayed for weeks while more recent ones just disappeared after a few days.

Quote: Drawdler

^ no, i got an mm a couple weeks ago and it disappeared this morning

A gnorc and an MM are two very different things.

Quote: Seiki

Quote: arceustheprime

Quote: CAV

I agree you need to be reigned in.

IM GOING TO JAIL GOODBYE GUYS

rip i hardly knew ye

Serious time. I have been trying to be not bad about this myself. I know I may still respond to some of Windumup's posts, but I try to avoid them from coming off as bullying or piling on. I will admit I'm not always good about this and that doesn't just concern Windumump. However, this issue does continue to come up and I do agree that something needs to change. I do support the idea of mods stepping in to control the situation. If I am suspended for a post I made that was bullying, then I will know I deserved it as I do often look back after such a post and feel I could've worded it better or perhaps done better to not have posted at all.

Seiki said this pretty perfectly.

Quote: StriderSwag

Quote: Bifrost

Can't you just use gnorcs though? It's not permanent,and it was done to some users who like to derail on the Skylanders boards quite a lot, though they're "smart" enough to come back with a victim card. If the user has to leave for an hour or day, can't post and it's time for them to think about how far they went to get that. If they take that to ragequit, then it's because they're not willing to learn.

This.
Also, mods please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they stay on your account forever? If people were gnorced, over time you could tell who the problem is.

Quote: arceustheprime

its kinda ridiculous that a user that causes so much trouble and may even be a troll themselves is constantly allowed to run amock on the site

It's kinda ridiculous that we have to have the same goddamn conversation over and over about the exact same user when the drama isn't even completely their fault.
Windumup needs to learn right now, that's it. There's no conversation past that. We need to be more welcoming, not more ostracizing.

it would be all fine if windumup actually did learn and wanted to learn but that's not the case, she refuses to learn no matter what happens
yeah it's not only windumups fault but people aren't gonna stop responding to them so what do we do

Quote: arceustheprime

edit 2- though that dog piling involves three topics and an extra topic about bullying and just causes a mess

she may not be breaking the rules but it does get annoying when she doesn't listen to anyone and makes dumb posts to bait everyone into replying

When I refer to dog piling I mean other incidents not these multiple topic things.

Oh don't get me wrong Windumup isn't innocent in any of this and I am asking that they cooperate and think twice about what they say before they say it. But at the same time you have to admit that this site has a nasty habit of jumping on them more than any other user here and often for more petty reasons.

I can't help but feel like some of the less extreme things they say would be completely ignored if someone else said them.

Quote: arceustheprime

Quote: StriderSwag

Quote: Bifrost

Can't you just use gnorcs though? It's not permanent,and it was done to some users who like to derail on the Skylanders boards quite a lot, though they're "smart" enough to come back with a victim card. If the user has to leave for an hour or day, can't post and it's time for them to think about how far they went to get that. If they take that to ragequit, then it's because they're not willing to learn.

This.
Also, mods please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they stay on your account forever? If people were gnorced, over time you could tell who the problem is.

Quote: arceustheprime

its kinda ridiculous that a user that causes so much trouble and may even be a troll themselves is constantly allowed to run amock on the site

It's kinda ridiculous that we have to have the same goddamn conversation over and over about the exact same user when the drama isn't even completely their fault.
Windumup needs to learn right now, that's it. There's no conversation past that. We need to be more welcoming, not more ostracizing.

it would be all fine if windumup actually did learn and wanted to learn but that's not the case, she refuses to learn no matter what happens
yeah it's not only windumups fault but people aren't gonna stop responding to them so what do we do

So instead of bringing in The Asshat Brigade to come publicly harass her, how about we calmly teach her?

Quote: arceustheprime

it would be all fine if windumup actually did learn and wanted to learn but that's not the case, she refuses to learn no matter what happens
yeah it's not only windumups fault but people aren't gonna stop responding to them so what do we do

We reign in both sides.

Coming in to criticize her and respond to posts in a civil manner is fine but once it gets down to trolling and name calling it immediately stops being their fault.

Quote: arceustheprime

Quote: StriderSwag

Quote: Bifrost

Can't you just use gnorcs though? It's not permanent,and it was done to some users who like to derail on the Skylanders boards quite a lot, though they're "smart" enough to come back with a victim card. If the user has to leave for an hour or day, can't post and it's time for them to think about how far they went to get that. If they take that to ragequit, then it's because they're not willing to learn.

This.
Also, mods please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they stay on your account forever? If people were gnorced, over time you could tell who the problem is.

Quote: arceustheprime

its kinda ridiculous that a user that causes so much trouble and may even be a troll themselves is constantly allowed to run amock on the site

It's kinda ridiculous that we have to have the same goddamn conversation over and over about the exact same user when the drama isn't even completely their fault.
Windumup needs to learn right now, that's it. There's no conversation past that. We need to be more welcoming, not more ostracizing.

it would be all fine if windumup actually did learn and wanted to learn but that's not the case, she refuses to learn no matter what happens
yeah it's not only windumups fault but people aren't gonna stop responding to them so what do we do

I don't do this on purpose! :/ I wish I could learn from this but I literally cannot see when something bad is going to happen before it's too late!

Quote: Windumup

Quote: arceustheprime

Quote: StriderSwag

This.
Also, mods please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they stay on your account forever? If people were gnorced, over time you could tell who the problem is.


It's kinda ridiculous that we have to have the same goddamn conversation over and over about the exact same user when the drama isn't even completely their fault.
Windumup needs to learn right now, that's it. There's no conversation past that. We need to be more welcoming, not more ostracizing.

it would be all fine if windumup actually did learn and wanted to learn but that's not the case, she refuses to learn no matter what happens
yeah it's not only windumups fault but people aren't gonna stop responding to them so what do we do

I don't do this on purpose! :/ I wish I could learn from this but I literally cannot see when something bad is going to happen before it's too late!

but you can think to yourself if it could cause trouble and if it should be said