darkSpyro

Quote: Mesuxelf

- - -

This doesn't work against Rosalina & Luma's edge shield lock though, because you are being attacked and shield pressured from both sides. Her shield lock entails Luma is spinning just past the edge, meaning you can't shield DI in either direction. The resulting shield stun and shield damage is also much greater than Lucario's Aura Sphere lock, so your shield gets broken much faster (like what happened at the end of the video there, with the two Lucario's pressuring Sheik's shield super fast - except with Rosalina & Luma, that's possible in 1v1).

Quote: sonicbrawler182

They didn't nerf Sheik if I'm not mistaken. It hasn't been documented yet anyway.

I mean, she's a ****y, overrated character anyway, but I still want to see her get nerfed just so people will stop treating her as the ****ing Smash Brothers GODDESS (who can NOT kill ****) that she isn't.

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

GREAT LADY PALUTENA! A VIRIDI COSTUME!

Anything related to her makes me want to destroy stuff.

Quote: LunarDistortion

Duck Hunt was also added to 3DS for free with the update.

I love the fact there's a new free stage, but... did it have to be one of those ugly 8-bit stages?

Sue me, I'm feeling negative right now.

Also, is it just me or does the whole entire game feel sped up?

MugoUrth, I agree that Sheik is completely overrated. I just can't see what makes people think she's overpowered. She's fast, yes, but 95% of her attacks are so weak...

Anyway, my mains are Ike and Dark Pit. Hoping that Isaac from Golden Sun is one of the ballot winners (if there will be more than one winner), I'm a huge Golden Sun fan.

Quote:

I mean, she's a ****y, overrated character anyway, but I still want to see her get nerfed just so people will stop treating her as the ****ing Smash Brothers GODDESS (who can NOT kill ****) that she isn't.

If anything, Sheik has just been buffed as a result of the universal shield stun nerf. One of the things that made Sheik one of the best characters before, was that her lack of end lag on everything and her overall quick moves made most of her moves safe on shield (i.e she couldn't really be punished with an attack even if you shielded her attacks, as she recovered fast enough to get away and then punish you for trying to punish her).

Now she is even harder to punish on shield.

Quote: Spellslamzer75

MugoUrth, I agree that Sheik is completely overrated. I just can't see what makes people think she's overpowered. She's fast, yes, but 95% of her attacks are so weak...

Anyway, my mains are Ike and Dark Pit. Hoping that Isaac from Golden Sun is one of the ballot winners (if there will be more than one winner), I'm a huge Golden Sun fan.

1v1 me Ike only.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote:

I mean, she's a ****y, overrated character anyway, but I still want to see her get nerfed just so people will stop treating her as the ****ing Smash Brothers GODDESS (who can NOT kill ****) that she isn't.

If anything, Sheik has just been buffed as a result of the universal shield stun nerf. One of the things that made Sheik one of the best characters before, was that her lack of end lag on everything and her overall quick moves made most of her moves safe on shield (i.e she couldn't really be punished with an attack even if you shielded her attacks, as she recovered fast enough to get away and then punish you for trying to punish her).

Now she is even harder to punish on shield.

I don't care how fast she is, how fast her moves are (which except for her needles, they really aren't), or how fast she can destroy shields, SHE CAN'T KILL. Being able to kill the opponent is the very point of the game, yet people forget that every time they praise Sheik.

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote:

I mean, she's a ****y, overrated character anyway, but I still want to see her get nerfed just so people will stop treating her as the ****ing Smash Brothers GODDESS (who can NOT kill ****) that she isn't.

If anything, Sheik has just been buffed as a result of the universal shield stun nerf. One of the things that made Sheik one of the best characters before, was that her lack of end lag on everything and her overall quick moves made most of her moves safe on shield (i.e she couldn't really be punished with an attack even if you shielded her attacks, as she recovered fast enough to get away and then punish you for trying to punish her).

Now she is even harder to punish on shield.

I don't care how fast she is, how fast her moves are (which except for her needles, they really aren't), or how fast she can destroy shields, SHE CAN'T KILL. Being able to kill the opponent is the very point of the game, yet people forget that every time they praise Sheik.

We've gone over this many times. She can kill. She doesn't need 50 thousand kill options. If you get edgeguarded, that's a kill. Up Air, Up B, and Up Smash are her standard kill options.

She can KO though. She builds up damage so fast that her low KO power is a non-issue in almost every MU, she can just pressure you off the stage or simply juggle you around to super high percents, as her moves are so fast and deal so much hit stun (for example, Sheik can KO Mewtwo from 30% simply by pressuring him with a ton of F-airs, and he will be stuck in hitstun, unable to escape). Most of Sheik's KOs happen off-stage, and she is excellent at getting those.

Not being able to KO from an early percent (and again, Sheik CAN do so if you utilise her off-stage game) means jack, when you can get people to really late percents faster and more reliably than most characters anyway.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

She can KO though. She builds up damage so fast that her low KO power is a non-issue in almost every MU, she can just pressure you off the stage or simply juggle you around to super high percents, as her moves are so fast and deal so much hit stun (for example, Sheik can KO Mewtwo from 30% simply by pressuring him with a ton of F-airs, and he will be stuck in hitstun, unable to escape). Most of Sheik's KOs happen off-stage, and she is excellent at getting those.

Not being able to KO from an early percent (and again, Sheik CAN do so if you utilise her off-stage game) means jack, when you can get people to really late percents faster and more reliably than most characters anyway.

Every fricking strategy involving her, you name it, I've tried it, most of it requires ABSOLUTE PERFECT accuracy and that your opponent is an idiot. Her needles, sure they're fast, but they need to set up too. Her other attacks aren't that fast, have small hitboxes and require pin-point accuracy. Plus, she's not a particularly heavy character, so she can be killed easily and early. Her low KO Power and lack of conventional KO options, whether you see it or not, absolutely KILLS any potential she has, especially since her killing power is the ABSOLUTE WORST in the game except for Diddy Kong.

Oh, but what do I know. Apparently anyone who thinks Sheik is overrated is automatically a "casual." Anyone who mains Bowser is a "casual." Anyone who seems to think there are more important things than mere speed is automatically a "casual."

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: sonicbrawler182

She can KO though. She builds up damage so fast that her low KO power is a non-issue in almost every MU, she can just pressure you off the stage or simply juggle you around to super high percents, as her moves are so fast and deal so much hit stun (for example, Sheik can KO Mewtwo from 30% simply by pressuring him with a ton of F-airs, and he will be stuck in hitstun, unable to escape). Most of Sheik's KOs happen off-stage, and she is excellent at getting those.

Not being able to KO from an early percent (and again, Sheik CAN do so if you utilise her off-stage game) means jack, when you can get people to really late percents faster and more reliably than most characters anyway.

Every fricking strategy involving her, you name it, I've tried it, most of it requires ABSOLUTE PERFECT accuracy and that your opponent is an idiot. Her needles, sure they're fast, but they need to set up too. Her other attacks aren't that fast, have small hitboxes and require pin-point accuracy. Plus, she's not a particularly heavy character, so she can be killed easily and early. Her low KO Power and lack of conventional KO options, whether you see it or not, absolutely KILLS any potential she has, especially since her killing power is the ABSOLUTE WORST in the game except for Diddy Kong.

Oh, but what do I know. Apparently anyone who thinks Sheik is overrated is automatically a "casual." Anyone who mains Bowser is a "casual." Anyone who seems to think there are more important things than mere speed is automatically a "casual."

Do you main Sheik? Do you play her at high level? I think the answer is no. You are more than likely just very unskilled at the character.

Also, no one was talking about casuals. You can main Bowser, I literally don't care who you main, I'm not changing my view of you.

And we've established that there are other things besides speed.

Quote: I-Brawler

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: sonicbrawler182

She can KO though. She builds up damage so fast that her low KO power is a non-issue in almost every MU, she can just pressure you off the stage or simply juggle you around to super high percents, as her moves are so fast and deal so much hit stun (for example, Sheik can KO Mewtwo from 30% simply by pressuring him with a ton of F-airs, and he will be stuck in hitstun, unable to escape). Most of Sheik's KOs happen off-stage, and she is excellent at getting those.

Not being able to KO from an early percent (and again, Sheik CAN do so if you utilise her off-stage game) means jack, when you can get people to really late percents faster and more reliably than most characters anyway.

Every fricking strategy involving her, you name it, I've tried it, most of it requires ABSOLUTE PERFECT accuracy and that your opponent is an idiot. Her needles, sure they're fast, but they need to set up too. Her other attacks aren't that fast, have small hitboxes and require pin-point accuracy. Plus, she's not a particularly heavy character, so she can be killed easily and early. Her low KO Power and lack of conventional KO options, whether you see it or not, absolutely KILLS any potential she has, especially since her killing power is the ABSOLUTE WORST in the game except for Diddy Kong.

Oh, but what do I know. Apparently anyone who thinks Sheik is overrated is automatically a "casual." Anyone who mains Bowser is a "casual." Anyone who seems to think there are more important things than mere speed is automatically a "casual."

Do you main Sheik? Do you play her at high level? I think the answer is no. You are more than likely just very unskilled at the character.

Also, no one was talking about casuals. You can main Bowser, I literally don't care who you main, I'm not changing my view of you.

- - -

I've never been a fan of characters that need perfect timing or accuracy to do something good. There's more room for something to go wrong than people seem to think, and if it does go wrong, it will go really wrong. Counters, for example.

It's a lot easier to imagine how something will happen than to actually do it that exact way.

To be honest Smash 4 sheik isn't as good as Melee Sheik. :/ However she is still a great character because her moves have barely end lag on them leading to new combos that can't be escaped from as easily. To nerf her all they really need to do is put about 2 frames of lag on her Fair and make her up b kill at higher percentages. And 3DS gets a tourney legal stage because that was everybody plays 3DS.

Quote: I-Brawler

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: sonicbrawler182

She can KO though. She builds up damage so fast that her low KO power is a non-issue in almost every MU, she can just pressure you off the stage or simply juggle you around to super high percents, as her moves are so fast and deal so much hit stun (for example, Sheik can KO Mewtwo from 30% simply by pressuring him with a ton of F-airs, and he will be stuck in hitstun, unable to escape). Most of Sheik's KOs happen off-stage, and she is excellent at getting those.

Not being able to KO from an early percent (and again, Sheik CAN do so if you utilise her off-stage game) means jack, when you can get people to really late percents faster and more reliably than most characters anyway.

Every fricking strategy involving her, you name it, I've tried it, most of it requires ABSOLUTE PERFECT accuracy and that your opponent is an idiot. Her needles, sure they're fast, but they need to set up too. Her other attacks aren't that fast, have small hitboxes and require pin-point accuracy. Plus, she's not a particularly heavy character, so she can be killed easily and early. Her low KO Power and lack of conventional KO options, whether you see it or not, absolutely KILLS any potential she has, especially since her killing power is the ABSOLUTE WORST in the game except for Diddy Kong.

Oh, but what do I know. Apparently anyone who thinks Sheik is overrated is automatically a "casual." Anyone who mains Bowser is a "casual." Anyone who seems to think there are more important things than mere speed is automatically a "casual."

Do you main Sheik? Do you play her at high level? I think the answer is no. You are more than likely just very unskilled at the character.

Also, no one was talking about casuals. You can main Bowser, I literally don't care who you main, I'm not changing my view of you.

And we've established that there are other things besides speed.

Of course not. I still play as her often, like I do with most characters that don't share the name of a hairy body part under your arm or associates. And believe me, I can still do more with her than Diddy. However, she requires such ridiculous skill and timing, that the main reason she's "high tier" is that the guy that uses her plays her completely perfectly.

Also, I asked this already, but besides the shieldstun, it feels like the entire game sped up.

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: I-Brawler

Quote: MugoUrth

Every fricking strategy involving her, you name it, I've tried it, most of it requires ABSOLUTE PERFECT accuracy and that your opponent is an idiot. Her needles, sure they're fast, but they need to set up too. Her other attacks aren't that fast, have small hitboxes and require pin-point accuracy. Plus, she's not a particularly heavy character, so she can be killed easily and early. Her low KO Power and lack of conventional KO options, whether you see it or not, absolutely KILLS any potential she has, especially since her killing power is the ABSOLUTE WORST in the game except for Diddy Kong.

Oh, but what do I know. Apparently anyone who thinks Sheik is overrated is automatically a "casual." Anyone who mains Bowser is a "casual." Anyone who seems to think there are more important things than mere speed is automatically a "casual."

Do you main Sheik? Do you play her at high level? I think the answer is no. You are more than likely just very unskilled at the character.

Also, no one was talking about casuals. You can main Bowser, I literally don't care who you main, I'm not changing my view of you.

And we've established that there are other things besides speed.

Of course not. I still play as her often, like I do with most characters that don't share the name of a hairy body part under your arm or associates. And believe me, I can still do more with her than Diddy. However, she requires such ridiculous skill and timing, that the main reason she's "high tier" is that the guy that uses her plays her completely perfectly.

Also, I asked this already, but besides the shieldstun, it feels like the entire game sped up.

To be a good character the player has to be good. That is one of the dumbest things that I have ever heard on this topic. There's plenty of reason why Sheik is top tier and being played by a good player isn't one of them. That's basically saying that Yoshi in Melee is an overpowered character because aMSa plays him amazingly. Yoshi is still a **** character but having a player who knows how to play them will make them look amazing. Sheik in Smash 4 is one of the best characters in the game because of her lagless moves, an amazing projectile, and combos that can rack up damage quickly.

Quote: somePerson

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: I-Brawler

Do you main Sheik? Do you play her at high level? I think the answer is no. You are more than likely just very unskilled at the character.

Also, no one was talking about casuals. You can main Bowser, I literally don't care who you main, I'm not changing my view of you.

And we've established that there are other things besides speed.

Of course not. I still play as her often, like I do with most characters that don't share the name of a hairy body part under your arm or associates. And believe me, I can still do more with her than Diddy. However, she requires such ridiculous skill and timing, that the main reason she's "high tier" is that the guy that uses her plays her completely perfectly.

Also, I asked this already, but besides the shieldstun, it feels like the entire game sped up.

To be a good character the player has to be good. That is one of the dumbest things that I have ever heard on this topic. There's plenty of reason why Sheik is top tier and being played by a good player isn't one of them. That's basically saying that Yoshi in Melee is an overpowered character because aMSa plays him amazingly. Yoshi is still a **** character but having a player who knows how to play them will make them look amazing. Sheik in Smash 4 is one of the best characters in the game because of her lagless moves, an amazing projectile, and combos that can rack up damage quickly.

Actually, people see one person kick butt with someone, they automatically think it's a good character. It's called the sheep effect. But... I guess "speedfanboys" have something to do with it too.

Yeah, she has lagless moves, a quick projectile and comboes, BUT she STILL has **** killing capabilities. Also, she's not very heavy, so she can be killed early. Her abilities aren't as perfect as people make them out to be. Her Side-B is way too slow, her Down-B is easily readable, and her Up-B is basically just a weaker version of Zelda's Up-B. People act like she's perfect just because of her N-B, speed and comboing abilities, but she's not.

Look, my opinion on her isn't going to change. I will always see her as an overrated character.

Quote: somePerson

To be honest Smash 4 sheik isn't as good as Melee Sheik. :/ However she is still a great character because her moves have barely end lag on them leading to new combos that can't be escaped from as easily. To nerf her all they really need to do is put about 2 frames of lag on her Fair and make her up b kill at higher percentages. And 3DS gets a tourney legal stage because that was everybody plays 3DS.

In the context of her game, Smash 4 Sheik is easily better than Melee Sheik. Melee Sheik might be more fun to some because of L-cancelling and wave dashing and all that, but every character in Melee has access to those, and there are characters in Melee that benefit more from Melee's mechanics than Sheik does. In Smash 4 though, Sheik, Rosalina, and Pikachu benefit from the game's mechanics more than anyone.

Quote:

Actually, people see one person kick butt with someone, they automatically think it's a good character.

If that was the case, Rosalina wouldn't be agreed as being a top tier, or have people complain about her being broken all of the time. She hasn't been winning tournaments that much and not many people play her.

While the Rosalina player base is mostly very bad and just rides off of Dabuz's early success and copies him and treats him like a god, people agree she's top tier because it's so plain to see that if people just took advantage of her properly, she'd be dominating. It's just that most Rosalina players play overly defensively, so that holds the character's tournament results back.

Quote: MugoUrth

Her Side-B is way too slow, her Down-B is easily readable, and her Up-B is basically just a weaker version of Zelda's Up-B. People act like she's perfect just because of her N-B, speed and comboing abilities, but she's not.

give me some reasoning besides specials

How is Sheik's a weaker version of Zelda's Up B? It doesn't go as far, but it's still a really good recovery and does it's job (and Sheik has a better double jump and can wall jump). She also isn't left as open as Zelda's Up B (Zelda's has an obnoxiously long cool down, especially in the air), and the initial explosion hits very hard.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

How is Sheik's a weaker version of Zelda's Up B? It doesn't go as far, but it's still a really good recovery and does it's job

It also has slower startup as well, and cannot be followed up as easily. With Zelda, both the start and end damage. I think same is true for Sheik, but it's much harder to connect with the second one.

Also people say her Up Smash is good despite its decrepit range. Most of her aerials don't have that good of range either.

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: sonicbrawler182

How is Sheik's a weaker version of Zelda's Up B? It doesn't go as far, but it's still a really good recovery and does it's job

It also has slower startup as well, and cannot be followed up as easily. With Zelda, both the start and end damage. I think same is true for Sheik, but it's much harder to connect with the second one.

Also people say her Up Smash is good despite its decrepit range. Most of her aerials don't have that good of range either.

Sheik doesn't need range because she can get away from her lagless moves. She's not a spacing character okay?

Diddy back on top.

Quote: somePerson

Diddy back on top.

hoo hah is dead long live invinci-grab

^While it's stupid it can be done, I don't think it's as "OMG DIDDY TOP TIER NOW" as people are making it out to be. The thing about it is that once activated, the Diddy player has to literally never let their shield get hit or else the glitch stops working. So basically, they can't use their shield.

They become invincible to grabs, but they become really vulnerable to everything else if they choose to actively try to maintain the glitch.

Also keep in mind that the main reason grabs exist, is to counter shields. If Diddy won't ever shield, you have no reason to grab.

Quote: somePerson

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: sonicbrawler182

How is Sheik's a weaker version of Zelda's Up B? It doesn't go as far, but it's still a really good recovery and does it's job

It also has slower startup as well, and cannot be followed up as easily. With Zelda, both the start and end damage. I think same is true for Sheik, but it's much harder to connect with the second one.

Also people say her Up Smash is good despite its decrepit range. Most of her aerials don't have that good of range either.

Sheik doesn't need range because she can get away from her lagless moves. She's not a spacing character okay?

She kind of does unless she's fighting idiots.

Quote: I-Brawler

Quote: The Bone Chompy

What's so different? I don't do much Luigi, sorry.

Also, shield breakers have been nerfed. So much for Headbutt+Giant Punch.

This is what it previously looked like. The opponent was thrown slightly outward and above Luigi. Base 75 and growth at 30, making it send the opponent basically the same place every time.
Now the base has been lowered (30 from 75, about where Mario's down throw goes), and the growth increased (from 30 to 83, making it harder to combo at higher percents.)

Oh alright, thanks.

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: somePerson

Quote: MugoUrth

It also has slower startup as well, and cannot be followed up as easily. With Zelda, both the start and end damage. I think same is true for Sheik, but it's much harder to connect with the second one.

Also people say her Up Smash is good despite its decrepit range. Most of her aerials don't have that good of range either.

Sheik doesn't need range because she can get away from her lagless moves. She's not a spacing character okay?

She kind of does unless she's fighting idiots.

...All I have to say to all of these arguments...

look down

This is pretty cool too see. I wonder if it includes the ballot winner?

I voted Rayman when the ballot started, but I have voted my other three characters just now:



Might do more if they come to mind but this is it for now.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

I voted Rayman when the ballot started, but I have voted my other three characters just now:

Reveal Spoiler

Might do more if they come to mind but this is it for now.

Not bad. But, gender:mänlicch?

Quote: The Bone Chompy

Quote: sonicbrawler182

I voted Rayman when the ballot started, but I have voted my other three characters just now:

Reveal Spoiler

Might do more if they come to mind but this is it for now.

Not bad. But, gender:mänlicch?

I believe it's Male in German

Quote: Wreckingball13

Quote: The Bone Chompy

Quote: sonicbrawler182

I voted Rayman when the ballot started, but I have voted my other three characters just now:

Reveal Spoiler

Might do more if they come to mind but this is it for now.

Not bad. But, gender:mänlicch?

I believe it's Male in German

Ok. I was just wondering, since the first one was in English.

Neku Sakuraba plz!

Anybody want to play now? Hit me with a PM or reply this post, please and thank you <3

http://www.nintendolife.com/ne...uper_smash_bros


Good stuff.........

Quote: sonicbrawler182

I voted Rayman when the ballot started, but I have voted my other three characters just now:

Reveal Spoiler

Might do more if they come to mind but this is it for now.

Interesting Choices. I diden't vote for anyone in the ballot.

I voted for Vile from Mega Man X.

I had a really good Roy ditto but I ****ed up trying to counter his neutral b. :c


But,

In other news, Super Smash Bros. for 3DS came out everywhere a year ago.

Quote: LunarDistortion

In other news, Super Smash Bros. for 3DS came out everywhere a year ago.

Damn, what a great day for sure!

He has fallen!

And it was a Sonic too.

Mah boi.

I hope King K. Rool and Bandana Waddle Dee are two of the DLC characters, but I think I know who we're going to get.

- Inkling Boy/Girl
- Wolf
- Some Mario clone

As for the characters I main, I main Donkey Kong, Lucina, Ganondorf, Bowser, and King Dedede, so pretty much just Lucina and the heavyweights.

I remeber 365 days ago when I was so ****ing pumped for the 3DS version. c;

Quote: Eggs

I hope King K. Rool and Bandana Waddle Dee are two of the DLC characters, but I think I know who we're going to get.

- Inkling Boy/Girl
- Wolf
- Some Mario clone

As for the characters I main, I main Donkey Kong, Lucina, Ganondorf, Bowser, and King Dedede, so pretty much just Lucina and the heavyweights.

NO

PLEASE

NO

NOT THOSE THREE

Sorry about that

I would want Shantae, Bandana Waddle Dee, and possibly Shovel Knight. But Shovel Knight is only because my friend will stop whining if that happens.

Also, who here actively plays mostly Smash Bros 3DS?

I really want to form a DarkSpyro Crew Battle.

Quote: The Bone Chompy

Quote: Eggs

I hope King K. Rool and Bandana Waddle Dee are two of the DLC characters, but I think I know who we're going to get.

- Inkling Boy/Girl
- Wolf
- Some Mario clone

As for the characters I main, I main Donkey Kong, Lucina, Ganondorf, Bowser, and King Dedede, so pretty much just Lucina and the heavyweights.

NO

PLEASE

NO

NOT THOSE THREE

Sorry about that

I would want Shantae, Bandana Waddle Dee, and possibly Shovel Knight. But Shovel Knight is only because my friend will stop whining if that happens.

Also, who here actively plays mostly Smash Bros 3DS?

I only play 3DS since I don't have a WiiU.

I play 3DS more because it's more convenient. My 3DS is always in my room, or on my person, but my Wii U is downstairs.

---

I hope that the 3DS's limited space doesn't hold back on how much DLC there'll be.

Quote: somePerson

I really want to form a DarkSpyro Crew Battle.

How would we get that to work?

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: somePerson

I really want to form a DarkSpyro Crew Battle.

How would we get that to work?

10 stocks a team I guess. We could send in a player one at a time through pm and results will be posted here. Teams will be another question however.