darkSpyro

When do you guys believe more DLC will be announced?

The earliest I see it being would be around mid September-Ballot ending

I WANT WOLF PLS

Quote: I-Brawler

The earliest I see it being would be around mid September-Ballot ending

This.

Quote: Mesuxelf

I WANT WOLF PLS

I DO TOO BECAUSE OF THE BET

Quote: Mesuxelf

I WANT WOLF PLS

I do too. I think he's pretty likely as well.

I'm sure a DLC character will be released near the end of the ballot. It would really suck if after this huge news drought they say "Thanks for giving your input! We're counting the votes now and choosing who will be the next fighter! Look forward to a DLC fighter coming Spring 2016!" The last known DLC characters released in June and Stages in July, Sakurai's said that he can't keep the team together forever, so there's no way they've just been twiddling their thumbs for 4 months.

I'm expecting Wolf or K. Rool to be announced first.

Quote: LunarDistortion

I'm sure a DLC character will be released near the end of the ballot. It would really suck if after this huge news drought they say "Thanks for giving your input! We're counting the votes now and choosing who will be the next fighter! Look forward to a DLC fighter coming Spring 2016!" The last known DLC characters released in June and Stages in July, Sakurai's said that he can't keep the team together forever, so there's no way they've just been twiddling their thumbs for 4 months.

I'm expecting Wolf or K. Rool to be announced first.

Please understand.

Well, they probably won't make a decision from the ballot before it has finished in October, and we know that characters take several months to make. Spring 2016 sounds very likely for a fighter from the ballot. I think we'll get at least one more character before that, though - I also don't imagine they've just been resting since completing Roy, Ryu and Lucas.

Monthly unofficial tier list! Thoughts?


I feel Wario shouldn't be higher than ROB, and Olimar should be nowhere near where he is right now. As much as I love DK, he's not B tier material. Same goes with Ike. He's got potential, but he's not as good as Mii Brawler. Toon Link is definitely not better than Link, and Mewtwo should be with the C tier characters IMO.

Thoughts from the reddit thread that I also agreed on.

Greninja (a character we can universally agree is pretty flawed) above mii brawler, toon link

lucas below the pits

bowser below mac is pretty bull**** (source: mac main)

mii brawler below donkey kong (really, what the hell)

zelda, samus, m2, pal, mii gunner and mii swordfighter below ganondorf, a character who quite literally has nothing going for him: no representation and no actual good stats such as a good neutral or combos like the characters below him.

I would say stuff about Bowser Jr. but I'll be hated for it anyway so why bother

Quote: Mesuxelf

Monthly unofficial tier list! Thoughts?


I feel Wario shouldn't be higher than ROB, and Olimar should be nowhere near where he is right now. As much as I love DK, he's not B tier material. Same goes with Ike. He's got potential, but he's not as good as Mii Brawler. Toon Link is definitely not better than Link, and Mewtwo should be with the C tier characters IMO.

Thoughts from the reddit thread that I also agreed on.

Greninja (a character we can universally agree is pretty flawed) above mii brawler, toon link

lucas below the pits

bowser below mac is pretty bull**** (source: mac main)

mii brawler below donkey kong (really, what the hell)

zelda, samus, m2, pal, mii gunner and mii swordfighter below ganondorf, a character who quite literally has nothing going for him: no representation and no actual good stats such as a good neutral or combos like the characters below him.

It's pretty good, but I have disagreements.

I feel like Lucario should be higher than Peach and Olimar

Wario Should switch with Pit and Pitto switches with Rob.

Greninja should be between Peach and Pac-Man

Switch Marth and Robin

Switch Ryu and Meta Knight

That one is all over the place.

Rosalina should be in S tier, nothing has changed for her so her tier position shouldn't either. Her and Sheik are still the best charracters without a doubt. I know Dabuz hasn't been doing as well with Rosalina lately and doesn't use her as much, but that shouldn't drop her a tier when she still has tons of potential and hasn't been touched by patches in any significant way. Her standing shouldn't rely on him and his limited playstyle, which it seems to.

Sonic and Yoshi should not be below either Mario or Diddy or Fox.

Meta Knight could be bumped up a tier.

Roy should be in A- at least. Definitely not below Ryu, the latter has more obvious flaws.

WFT, Link, and Toon Link should at least be B tier.

Just a few off the top of my head, not going into detail right now since I'm on my phone.

Shulk seems off. :/

Quote: sonicbrawler182

That one is all over the place.

Rosalina should be in S tier, nothing has changed for her so her tier position shouldn't either. Her and Sheik are still the best charracters without a doubt. I know Dabuz hasn't been doing as well with Rosalina lately and doesn't use her as much, but that shouldn't drop her a tier when she still has tons of potential and hasn't been touched by patches in any significant way. Her standing shouldn't rely on him and his limited playstyle, which it seems to.

Sonic and Yoshi should not be below either Mario or Diddy or Fox.

Meta Knight could be bumped up a tier.

Roy should be in A- at least. Definitely not below Ryu, the latter has more obvious flaws.

WFT, Link, and Toon Link should at least be B tier.

Just a few off the top of my head, not going into detail right now since I'm on my phone.

I thought WFT and Yoshi were a bit too high up. Care to explain why you think they should be higher than they already are?

And lots of characters have unused potential. Bowser, Little Mac, Marth, DK, but they're not S tier. What makes potential give you a high rating?


Quote: somePerson

Shulk seems off. :/

Shulk thoughts.

My biggest complaint with the tier list is that there is no justifiable reason that Sheik should be the highest tiered character in the game. It just feels like more "Lol, she's fast and combos, therefor she's high tier." So basically being fast and being able to pull off weak combos is more important than being able to actually KILL the opponent? In order to actually win, she has to rely on her smash attacks, which are also not that strong and besides her F-smash are VERY close-range. Not to mention her Up Special's only good for recovery, her side special is way too slow and her down special requires specific timing to pull off. She's also quite light and easy to launch. I'm sorry, but I do not see how she is in any way, shape or form S tier just because she's fast.

Also, was there anything really added to the update besides character "balancing?"

Quote: MugoUrth

My biggest complaint with the tier list is that there is no justifiable reason that Sheik should be the highest tiered character in the game. It just feels like more "Lol, she's fast and combos, therefor she's high tier." So basically being fast and being able to pull off weak combos is more important than being able to actually KILL the opponent? In order to actually win, she has to rely on her smash attacks, which are also not that strong and besides her F-smash are VERY close-range. Not to mention her Up Special's only good for recovery, her side special is way too slow and her down special requires specific timing to pull off. She's also quite light and easy to launch. I'm sorry, but I do not see how she is in any way, shape or form S tier just because she's fast.

Also, was there anything really added to the update besides character "balancing?"

*cough*forwardair*cough*

Forward air strings/"combos" on some bigger characters
Guarenteed down throw followups
Side Special is near useless don't use it
Down Special is best used for edgeguarding and it works relatively well
Up Special explosion kills under 150 I believe

On a more competitive level, however, bait and punish are two very important things

For bait, she has freaking almost no lag on any moves and all of those moves are very fast (excluding smash attacks and down air from the line up) allowing her to lead right into important thing number 2, punishing.
Baiting allows for your opponent to attempt to punish you for doing the bait while you have the ability to punish them for trying to punish you.....in a sense.

Go watch ZeRo or someone play Sheik, FG or other places don't cut it sometimes.

Sheik is always good. D: But who would anybody use her smash attacks to kill? If you rely on smash attacks to get a majority of your kills then you are a casual.

Quote: somePerson

Sheik is always good. D: But who would anybody use her smash attacks to kill? If you rely on smash attacks to get a majority of your kills then you are a casual.

She literally has nothing else, though. I find it odd that people can complain about minor things like "Oh, that character's too big" or "that character's slow" or "that character can do over 20% of damage with a single attack but can't combo" yet a MAJOR thing like a character having no means of actually winning is what people forgive.

watch high level sheik play plz

Quote: I-Brawler

watch high level sheik play plz

Believe me, I've seen a LOT of of them, but they're always against scrubs who don't play well. I've seen quite a few replays with Sheik players where they get their butts kicked by so-called "Low tier" characters.

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: I-Brawler

watch high level sheik play plz

Believe me, I've seen a LOT of of them, but they're always against scrubs who don't play well. I've seen quite a few replays with Sheik players where they get their butts kicked by so-called "Low tier" characters.

For Glory =/= Competitive

Just because you see some video of a guy playing For Glory does not mean that the character is played like a 12 year old.

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: I-Brawler

watch high level sheik play plz

Believe me, I've seen a LOT of of them, but they're always against scrubs who don't play well. I've seen quite a few replays with Sheik players where they get their butts kicked by so-called "Low tier" characters.

watch high level sheik play plz

Mewtwo in bottom tier? He is most certainly not that bad.

Quote: Mrmorrises

Mewtwo in bottom tier? He is most certainly not that bad.

He kinda is around there, and I say this as someone who mains him. He has the same problem Meta Knight had early on, and then a whole lot more:

Link and Rosalina should be top tier imo

Of course, Mewtwo is low tier. Yeah, he is not as good as the other DLC characters, but I don't think he is that low. His Up Smash can kill really early.

Thank you for your thought out post SB ^.^

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: somePerson

Sheik is always good. D: But who would anybody use her smash attacks to kill? If you rely on smash attacks to get a majority of your kills then you are a casual.

She literally has nothing else, though. I find it odd that people can complain about minor things like "Oh, that character's too big" or "that character's slow" or "that character can do over 20% of damage with a single attack but can't combo" yet a MAJOR thing like a character having no means of actually winning is what people forgive.

Literally? She literally has up air, down air, forward air, back air, up tilt, down tilt, forward tilt, side b, up b, down b. There's "literally" something else.
Don't use literally if you don't know how to use it. It makes you sound like an uneducated 12 year old white girl.

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: somePerson

Sheik is always good. D: But who would anybody use her smash attacks to kill? If you rely on smash attacks to get a majority of your kills then you are a casual.

She literally has nothing else, though. I find it odd that people can complain about minor things like "Oh, that character's too big" or "that character's slow" or "that character can do over 20% of damage with a single attack but can't combo" yet a MAJOR thing like a character having no means of actually winning is what people forgive.

If a character is too big or slow then they will get punished easily leading to their deaths. Hitting a single attack that does 20% shouldn't be you main source of damage. Plus those moves are hard to hit and can be punished easily.(Warlock punch, rest, etc) They should primarily be used for taking stocks instead. Combos can do more than 20% if you play your cards right and won't take as much work to connect it. It's not like Sheik is in the finals in the majority of every major ssb4 tourney. >.> You are the true definition of a casual Brawl player.

Quote: [url=http://forum.darkspyro.net/spyro/viewposts.php?topic=116871&post=5733895

His Up Smash can kill really early.

.....So do a lot of other ones.

It's also a very slow move, and the only characters he can hit with it when they are in a standing position are Bowser and Ganondorf IIRC (or a fellow Mewtwo). With all other characters, they have to already be elevated above a him a little. MAYBE Rosalina too, if you are like, RIGHT inside of her, but you are not going to really have that happen especially with Luma being a thing.

Not to mention the tons of hitbox problems and what not he has.

Mewtwo up move is pretty powerful.

Quote: skylandersspyro

Mewtwo up move is pretty powerful.

There's quite a few up moves.

Quote: Mesuxelf

Quote: skylandersspyro

Mewtwo up move is pretty powerful.

There's quite a few up moves.

I think he means that insanely broken up tilt

Quote: skylandersspyro

Mewtwo up move is pretty powerful.

His Up B is so powerful. >.>

Quote: I-Brawler

Quote: Mesuxelf

Quote: skylandersspyro

Mewtwo up move is pretty powerful.

There's quite a few up moves.

I think he means that insanely broken up tilt

i know.It needs a fix.

Mewtwo's Up Tilt is broken but not in the "it's good for Mewtwo" kinda way. The hitboxes don't even nearly match the length of the animation.

Also, any clue on why Donkey Kong is so high up?

Because Reddit loves le expand dong meme.

Quote: somePerson

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: somePerson

Sheik is always good. D: But who would anybody use her smash attacks to kill? If you rely on smash attacks to get a majority of your kills then you are a casual.

She literally has nothing else, though. I find it odd that people can complain about minor things like "Oh, that character's too big" or "that character's slow" or "that character can do over 20% of damage with a single attack but can't combo" yet a MAJOR thing like a character having no means of actually winning is what people forgive.

If a character is too big or slow then they will get punished easily leading to their deaths. Hitting a single attack that does 20% shouldn't be you main source of damage. Plus those moves are hard to hit and can be punished easily.(Warlock punch, rest, etc) They should primarily be used for taking stocks instead. Combos can do more than 20% if you play your cards right and won't take as much work to connect it. It's not like Sheik is in the finals in the majority of every major ssb4 tourney. >.> You are the true definition of a casual Brawl player.

Being big and slow is ONLY a big deal if you're a complete idiot. If you're REALLY good at playing, you can work around it.

Because Warlock punch and smash attacks are the only way to easily deal 20% without combos. Some of the really strong characters like Bowser and Ganondorf can deal quick and easy damage, as well as KO early.

Comboes take an EXCRUCIATING amount of work, and while they can do a lot of damage, alone they cannot kill opponents. Sheik also has to use a LOT of combos before she can even remotely KO opponents. She "supposedly" has other ways to kill opponents, but mostly they work if your opponent is a complete idiot, and her arial moves that SUPPOSEDLY kill opponents kill them very late.

Also, I am NOT a casual player. I am highly competitive. I play every single day, Omega stage, no items, EXACTLY the way as it is for Glory matches. I play constantly to train and get better for online matches so that I can be the best player I can be. However, I have constantly played as some really crappy characters like Diddy Kong, Sonic and Shiek to see what the heck people see in them, and I have found them to ultimately be WAY more trouble than their worth. The Shiek players in those tournaments are either god-like players with almost flawless skills or they fight a bunch of scrubs who can't play.

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: somePerson

Quote: MugoUrth

She literally has nothing else, though. I find it odd that people can complain about minor things like "Oh, that character's too big" or "that character's slow" or "that character can do over 20% of damage with a single attack but can't combo" yet a MAJOR thing like a character having no means of actually winning is what people forgive.

If a character is too big or slow then they will get punished easily leading to their deaths. Hitting a single attack that does 20% shouldn't be you main source of damage. Plus those moves are hard to hit and can be punished easily.(Warlock punch, rest, etc) They should primarily be used for taking stocks instead. Combos can do more than 20% if you play your cards right and won't take as much work to connect it. It's not like Sheik is in the finals in the majority of every major ssb4 tourney. >.> You are the true definition of a casual Brawl player.

Being big and slow is ONLY a big deal if you're a complete idiot. If you're REALLY good at playing, you can work around it.

Because Warlock punch and smash attacks are the only way to easily deal 20% without combos. Some of the really strong characters like Bowser and Ganondorf can deal quick and easy damage, as well as KO early.

Comboes take an EXCRUCIATING amount of work, and while they can do a lot of damage, alone they cannot kill opponents. Sheik also has to use a LOT of combos before she can even remotely KO opponents. She "supposedly" has other ways to kill opponents, but mostly they work if your opponent is a complete idiot, and her arial moves that SUPPOSEDLY kill opponents kill them very late.

Also, I am NOT a casual player. I am highly competitive. I play every single day, Omega stage, no items, EXACTLY the way as it is for Glory matches. I play constantly to train and get better for online matches so that I can be the best player I can be. However, I have constantly played as some really crappy characters like Diddy Kong, Sonic and Shiek to see what the heck people see in them, and I have found them to ultimately be WAY more trouble than their worth. The Shiek players in those tournaments are either god-like players with almost flawless skills or they fight a bunch of scrubs who can't play.

Oh you only play on Omega stages. You are a For Glory casual. Sorry for the mistake. :c

Quote:

Because Warlock punch and smash attacks are the only way to easily deal 20% without combos.

I regularly deal over 40% by catching opponents in between Rosalina & Luma's endless jab. It literally requires I hold A for a few seconds.

Rosalina can also easily deal over 20% using her pummels in a grab and then throwing. Her throws all deal 9-12%, IIRC. Pummels deal 2%.

And honestly most combos in Smash 4 are super easy and often lead to early, confirmed KO's.

Also, playing FG rules =/= competitive. Tournaments don't use FG rules.

Quote: Mrmorrises

Also, any clue on why Donkey Kong is so high up?

Nah he just bribed with his dong.

Quote: somePerson

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: somePerson

If a character is too big or slow then they will get punished easily leading to their deaths. Hitting a single attack that does 20% shouldn't be you main source of damage. Plus those moves are hard to hit and can be punished easily.(Warlock punch, rest, etc) They should primarily be used for taking stocks instead. Combos can do more than 20% if you play your cards right and won't take as much work to connect it. It's not like Sheik is in the finals in the majority of every major ssb4 tourney. >.> You are the true definition of a casual Brawl player.

Being big and slow is ONLY a big deal if you're a complete idiot. If you're REALLY good at playing, you can work around it.

Because Warlock punch and smash attacks are the only way to easily deal 20% without combos. Some of the really strong characters like Bowser and Ganondorf can deal quick and easy damage, as well as KO early.

Comboes take an EXCRUCIATING amount of work, and while they can do a lot of damage, alone they cannot kill opponents. Sheik also has to use a LOT of combos before she can even remotely KO opponents. She "supposedly" has other ways to kill opponents, but mostly they work if your opponent is a complete idiot, and her arial moves that SUPPOSEDLY kill opponents kill them very late.

Also, I am NOT a casual player. I am highly competitive. I play every single day, Omega stage, no items, EXACTLY the way as it is for Glory matches. I play constantly to train and get better for online matches so that I can be the best player I can be. However, I have constantly played as some really crappy characters like Diddy Kong, Sonic and Shiek to see what the heck people see in them, and I have found them to ultimately be WAY more trouble than their worth. The Shiek players in those tournaments are either god-like players with almost flawless skills or they fight a bunch of scrubs who can't play.

Oh you only play on Omega stages. You are a For Glory casual. Sorry for the mistake. :c

I'M NOT A CASUAL PLAYER!

I also play with alt-moves quite a lot to switch things up, as well as creating challenge modes like KOing an opponent five times before losing losing a single life. I'm always trying to improve my skills with my mains, as well as characters I'm not good with.


Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote:

Because Warlock punch and smash attacks are the only way to easily deal 20% without combos.

I regularly deal over 40% by catching opponents in between Rosalina & Luma's endless jab. It literally requires I hold A for a few seconds.

Rosalina can also easily deal over 20% using her pummels in a grab and then throwing. Her throws all deal 9-12%, IIRC. Pummels deal 2%.

And honestly most combos in Smash 4 are super easy and often lead to early, confirmed KO's.

Also, playing FG rules =/= competitive. Tournaments don't use FG rules.

If you were to tell me that Rosie/Luma was S tier, I would not argue. Shiek is NOT S tier. I've fought her a lot of times, and while I did have problems fighting her at first, I eventually learned to adapt to her style and I generally don't lose to her even with big characters. I mean, I'm not a god player, but I'm still pretty good on a good day.

Like I said, I don't always play FG rules.

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: somePerson

Quote: MugoUrth

Being big and slow is ONLY a big deal if you're a complete idiot. If you're REALLY good at playing, you can work around it.

Because Warlock punch and smash attacks are the only way to easily deal 20% without combos. Some of the really strong characters like Bowser and Ganondorf can deal quick and easy damage, as well as KO early.

Comboes take an EXCRUCIATING amount of work, and while they can do a lot of damage, alone they cannot kill opponents. Sheik also has to use a LOT of combos before she can even remotely KO opponents. She "supposedly" has other ways to kill opponents, but mostly they work if your opponent is a complete idiot, and her arial moves that SUPPOSEDLY kill opponents kill them very late.

Also, I am NOT a casual player. I am highly competitive. I play every single day, Omega stage, no items, EXACTLY the way as it is for Glory matches. I play constantly to train and get better for online matches so that I can be the best player I can be. However, I have constantly played as some really crappy characters like Diddy Kong, Sonic and Shiek to see what the heck people see in them, and I have found them to ultimately be WAY more trouble than their worth. The Shiek players in those tournaments are either god-like players with almost flawless skills or they fight a bunch of scrubs who can't play.

Oh you only play on Omega stages. You are a For Glory casual. Sorry for the mistake. :c

I'M NOT A CASUAL PLAYER!

I also play with alt-moves quite a lot to switch things up, as well as creating challenge modes like KOing an opponent five times before losing losing a single life. I'm always trying to improve my skills with my mains, as well as characters I'm not good with.


Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote:

Because Warlock punch and smash attacks are the only way to easily deal 20% without combos.

I regularly deal over 40% by catching opponents in between Rosalina & Luma's endless jab. It literally requires I hold A for a few seconds.

Rosalina can also easily deal over 20% using her pummels in a grab and then throwing. Her throws all deal 9-12%, IIRC. Pummels deal 2%.

And honestly most combos in Smash 4 are super easy and often lead to early, confirmed KO's.

Also, playing FG rules =/= competitive. Tournaments don't use FG rules.

If you were to tell me that Rosie/Luma was S tier, I would not argue. Shiek is NOT S tier. I've fought her a lot of times, and while I did have problems fighting her at first, I eventually learned to adapt to her style and I generally don't lose to her even with big characters. I mean, I'm not a god player, but I'm still pretty good on a good day.

Like I said, I don't always play FG rules.

You play on 3DS. There aren't that many good players on 3DS For Glory. You also said you played every day with FG rules.

Quote: FireMeowth

Well, they probably won't make a decision from the ballot before it has finished in October, and we know that characters take several months to make. Spring 2016 sounds very likely for a fighter from the ballot. I think we'll get at least one more character before that, though - I also don't imagine they've just been resting since completing Roy, Ryu and Lucas.

Sakurai has said he oversees the ballot votes, so I can't imagine them wasting four months doing nothing ballot-related even though by the time Roy, Ryu, and Lucas came out, they would have already had a few standout characters in the ballot. They've shown they can work on multiple DLC fighters at once, so I wouldn't even be surprised if the ballot fighter came with Wolf as another pre-ballot character they've been working on to release in time for Star Fox Zero.

Quote: somePerson

You play on 3DS. There aren't that many good players on 3DS For Glory. You also said you played every day with FG rules.

So? That doesn't make me a "Casual player." Believe me, I HAVE played some very good players on the 3DS though. I'd argue I'm about average when it comes to skill, but I still consider average to be pretty decent.

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: somePerson

You play on 3DS. There aren't that many good players on 3DS For Glory. You also said you played every day with FG rules.

So? That doesn't make me a "Casual player." Believe me, I HAVE played some very good players on the 3DS though. I'd argue I'm about average when it comes to skill, but I still consider average to be pretty decent.

filthy casual

New meta announced! Move over 20XX because this is the new next thing.

Quote: TacoMakerSkys

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: somePerson

You play on 3DS. There aren't that many good players on 3DS For Glory. You also said you played every day with FG rules.

So? That doesn't make me a "Casual player." Believe me, I HAVE played some very good players on the 3DS though. I'd argue I'm about average when it comes to skill, but I still consider average to be pretty decent.

filthy casual

Dude, shut up. Seriously, internet=/=excuse to be a jerk and/or hide behind "lol im joking".

BTW, I remember when MetaKnight used to be considered one of the worst in this game, but over time he became more ballanced and usefull. What things ultimately seperate him then from now?

Quote: MugoUrth

If you were to tell me that Rosie/Luma was S tier, I would not argue. Shiek is NOT S tier. I've fought her a lot of times, and while I did have problems fighting her at first, I eventually learned to adapt to her style and I generally don't lose to her even with big characters. I mean, I'm not a god player, but I'm still pretty good on a good day.

Like I said, I don't always play FG rules.

*politely shoves in your face*