darkSpyro

Quote: StriderSwag

Quote: Seiki

Pokemon Trainer

MAN I WANT HIM AND SNAKE BACK
THEY WERE MY MAINS IN BRAWL

Honestly, if they do bring PKMN Trainer back, I'd rather it be Ethan instead of Red using Totodile, Bayleaf, & Typhlosion; especially since Charizard is a fighter on his own.

I've voted for Wolf 137 times.
I really want Ivysaur back though.

Can somebody please explain why I keep losing my double jump whenever I jump off the stage. It should be my normal jump but it uses my second jump instead which I don't realize until it's too late.

Quote: somePerson

Can somebody please explain why I keep losing my double jump whenever I jump off the stage. It should be my normal jump but it uses my second jump instead which I don't realize until it's too late.

I experience this same problem.

Quote: Mesuxelf

Quote: somePerson

Can somebody please explain why I keep losing my double jump whenever I jump off the stage. It should be my normal jump but it uses my second jump instead which I don't realize until it's too late.

I experience this same problem.

When you use your midair jump when leaving the stage it's because you used it too late when you were not standing on said stage. Might be hard to notice because they animation is interrupted by you jumping.

- - -

^That...really doesn't mean anything? It's just Etika re-reading the article.

Quote: Seiki

Quote: StriderSwag

Quote: Seiki

Pokemon Trainer

MAN I WANT HIM AND SNAKE BACK
THEY WERE MY MAINS IN BRAWL

Honestly, if they do bring PKMN Trainer back, I'd rather it be Ethan instead of Red using Totodile, Bayleaf, & Typhlosion; especially since Charizard is a fighter on his own.

Or Brendan. Brendan with Mudkip, Grovyle, and Blaziken would be absolutely amazing.

Quote: Matteomax

Quote: Seiki

Quote: StriderSwag

MAN I WANT HIM AND SNAKE BACK
THEY WERE MY MAINS IN BRAWL

Honestly, if they do bring PKMN Trainer back, I'd rather it be Ethan instead of Red using Totodile, Bayleaf, & Typhlosion; especially since Charizard is a fighter on his own.

Or Brendan. Brendan with Mudkip, Grovyle, and Blaziken would be absolutely amazing.

I'd be down with Ethan or Brendan.

Quote: Matteomax

Quote: Seiki

Quote: StriderSwag

MAN I WANT HIM AND SNAKE BACK
THEY WERE MY MAINS IN BRAWL

Honestly, if they do bring PKMN Trainer back, I'd rather it be Ethan instead of Red using Totodile, Bayleaf, & Typhlosion; especially since Charizard is a fighter on his own.

Or Brendan. Brendan with Mudkip, Grovyle, and Blaziken would be absolutely amazing.

NO NO NO!

Treeko, Combusken SWAMPERT!

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

Quote: Matteomax

Quote: Seiki

Honestly, if they do bring PKMN Trainer back, I'd rather it be Ethan instead of Red using Totodile, Bayleaf, & Typhlosion; especially since Charizard is a fighter on his own.

Or Brendan. Brendan with Mudkip, Grovyle, and Blaziken would be absolutely amazing.

NO NO NO!

Treeko, Combusken SWAMPERT!

UM no. Mega Sceptile.

Nothing else.

Quote: OnionCakes

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

Quote: Matteomax

Or Brendan. Brendan with Mudkip, Grovyle, and Blaziken would be absolutely amazing.

NO NO NO!

Treeko, Combusken SWAMPERT!

UM no. Mega Sceptile.

Nothing else.

We've got a Fire and Water type Starter in Sm4sh. Why not Grass?

I don't really want anymore Pokemon. Getting Ivysaur and Squirtle back would be cool though.

Quote: LunarDistortion

I don't really want anymore Pokemon. Getting Ivysaur and Squirtle back would be cool though.

Yeah it would, but we've got 6 Pokemon, which is the amount of Pokemon you can have in your party at a time in the main series games.

Quote: Matteomax

Quote: Seiki

Quote: StriderSwag

MAN I WANT HIM AND SNAKE BACK
THEY WERE MY MAINS IN BRAWL

Honestly, if they do bring PKMN Trainer back, I'd rather it be Ethan instead of Red using Totodile, Bayleaf, & Typhlosion; especially since Charizard is a fighter on his own.

Or Brendan. Brendan with Mudkip, Grovyle, and Blaziken would be absolutely amazing.

This would never happen, but what if the trainer and his pokemon changed when you did a color palette change?

Quote: LunarDistortion

I don't really want anymore Pokemon. Getting Ivysaur and Squirtle back would be cool though.

Yessss.

Wonder if the Smash 4 tier list is gonna end up with one character alone in the top tier. Probably not.

Quote: Mrmorrises

Wonder if the Smash 4 tier list is gonna end up with one character alone in the top tier. Probably not.

tiers are trash tbh

Quote: StriderSwag

Quote: Mrmorrises

Wonder if the Smash 4 tier list is gonna end up with one character alone in the top tier. Probably not.

tiers are trash tbh

^truth

speaking of so we may never get an official list for smash 4 ever

Quote: I-Brawler

Quote: StriderSwag

Quote: Mrmorrises

Wonder if the Smash 4 tier list is gonna end up with one character alone in the top tier. Probably not.

tiers are trash tbh

^truth

speaking of so we may never get an official list for smash 4 ever

Why wouldn't we?

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: I-Brawler

Quote: StriderSwag

tiers are trash tbh

^truth

speaking of so we may never get an official list for smash 4 ever

Why wouldn't we?

In addition to the standard movesets for all characters, we have

- Custom moves
- Future DLC characters
- and balance patches (remember when Diddy was considered the best?)

Quote: I-Brawler

Quote: StriderSwag

Quote: Mrmorrises

Wonder if the Smash 4 tier list is gonna end up with one character alone in the top tier. Probably not.

tiers are trash tbh

^truth

speaking of so we may never get an official list for smash 4 ever

Is that why you keep making your own list?

Quote: somePerson

Quote: I-Brawler

Quote: StriderSwag

tiers are trash tbh

^truth

speaking of so we may never get an official list for smash 4 ever

Is that why you keep making your list?

why not

i explicitly say it's opinionated too

Quote: Matteomax

Quote: Seiki

Quote: StriderSwag

MAN I WANT HIM AND SNAKE BACK
THEY WERE MY MAINS IN BRAWL

Honestly, if they do bring PKMN Trainer back, I'd rather it be Ethan instead of Red using Totodile, Bayleaf, & Typhlosion; especially since Charizard is a fighter on his own.

Or Brendan. Brendan with Mudkip, Grovyle, and Blaziken would be absolutely amazing.

Not yet. Preferably, I'd like to see PKMN Trainer return in each Smash installment and have Brendan appear in the next one. After Redm the next step should be Johto. Skipping it would piss me off for a number of reasons, mainly OCD ones and the fact that Johto is my favorite region.

Not saying I don't want Brendan, I wouldn't mind seeing him or May, but I'd rather they waited and we get a Johto trainer (Ethan, Lyra, or Kris) first.

Quote: I-Brawler

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: I-Brawler

^truth

speaking of so we may never get an official list for smash 4 ever

Why wouldn't we?

In addition to the standard movesets for all characters, we have

- Custom moves
- Future DLC characters
- and balance patches (remember when Diddy was considered the best?)

DLC and Balance Patches have an end, and thus far, they have only had major effects on the tier placement of certain characters. Custom moves, similarly, only effect certain characters to any noticeable degree. For example, Sheik and Rosalina are still the best in the game with or without customs (as fundamentally the characters are just really good, and their customs are also really solid and simply give them more appropriate options in certain match-ups - for example, Shulk is probably one of the best if not the best character to use against Rosalina with customs off as the match-up is very even if not in Shulk's favour, but with customs on, Rosalina wins against Shulk by a landslide, as literally all of the problems she otherwise has in the match-up are fixed, and Shulk has nothing he can compensate with, as his customs are honestly quite bad and are pretty gimmicky), while Palutena is easily one of the worst characters in the game without customs, but is considerably better with customs on (I would say high tier but they nerfed one of her customs pretty badly).

Tier lists aren't really opinionated, they are based on objective data. The only reason there isn't an official tier list yet is because 1) this game technically is not even fully developed yet, and 2) we simply haven't had enough time to gather enough players of different characters to see their tournament results, and to assess whether or not characters have reached their full potential yet.

That being said, ZeRo's tier list is a pretty good reference for now, as most other tier lists seem to align pretty well with it anyway.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: I-Brawler

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Why wouldn't we?

In addition to the standard movesets for all characters, we have

- Custom moves
- Future DLC characters
- and balance patches (remember when Diddy was considered the best?)

DLC and Balance Patches have an end, and thus far, they have only had major effects on the tier placement of certain characters. Custom moves, similarly, only effect certain characters to any noticeable degree. For example, Sheik and Rosalina are still the best in the game with or without customs (as fundamentally the characters are just really good, and their customs are also really solid and simply give them more appropriate options in certain match-ups - for example, Shulk is probably one of the best if not the best character to use against Rosalina with customs off as the match-up is very even if not in Shulk's favour, but with customs on, Rosalina wins against Shulk by a landslide, as literally all of the problems she otherwise has in the match-up are fixed, and Shulk has nothing he can compensate with, as his customs are honestly quite bad and are pretty gimmicky), while Palutena is easily one of the worst characters in the game without customs, but is considerably better with customs on (I would say high tier but they nerfed one of her customs pretty badly).

Tier lists aren't really opinionated, they are based on objective data. The only reason there isn't an official tier list yet is because 1) this game technically is not even fully developed yet, and 2) we simply haven't had enough time to gather enough players of different characters to see their tournament results, and to assess whether or not characters have reached their full potential yet.

That being said, ZeRo's tier list is a pretty good reference for now, as most other tier lists seem to align pretty well with it anyway.

Hm, wonder if there will be a tier list with and without customs, cause they really do make a difference. Some of ZeRo's rankings surprised me (Palutena, Donkey Kong and Meta Knight are in the upper mid tier) but then I remember he is talking about with customs being on.

Quote: Mrmorrises

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: I-Brawler

In addition to the standard movesets for all characters, we have

- Custom moves
- Future DLC characters
- and balance patches (remember when Diddy was considered the best?)

DLC and Balance Patches have an end, and thus far, they have only had major effects on the tier placement of certain characters. Custom moves, similarly, only effect certain characters to any noticeable degree. For example, Sheik and Rosalina are still the best in the game with or without customs (as fundamentally the characters are just really good, and their customs are also really solid and simply give them more appropriate options in certain match-ups - for example, Shulk is probably one of the best if not the best character to use against Rosalina with customs off as the match-up is very even if not in Shulk's favour, but with customs on, Rosalina wins against Shulk by a landslide, as literally all of the problems she otherwise has in the match-up are fixed, and Shulk has nothing he can compensate with, as his customs are honestly quite bad and are pretty gimmicky), while Palutena is easily one of the worst characters in the game without customs, but is considerably better with customs on (I would say high tier but they nerfed one of her customs pretty badly).

Tier lists aren't really opinionated, they are based on objective data. The only reason there isn't an official tier list yet is because 1) this game technically is not even fully developed yet, and 2) we simply haven't had enough time to gather enough players of different characters to see their tournament results, and to assess whether or not characters have reached their full potential yet.

That being said, ZeRo's tier list is a pretty good reference for now, as most other tier lists seem to align pretty well with it anyway.

Hm, wonder if there will be a tier list with and without customs, cause they really do make a difference. Some of ZeRo's rankings surprised me (Palutena, Donkey Kong and Meta Knight are in the upper mid tier) but then I remember he is talking about with customs being on.

Most likely there will be, as there is a schism in the community as to whether or not customs should even be allowed as some characters are a bit bogus with customs (for example, Pikachu and Captain Falcon have infinite combos if they use customs - I'm not sure if the Pikachu one was patched yet, but the Falcon one was only just discovered). Some tournaments allow them, some don't, and people are considering banning individual custom moves that prove problematic.

Why does the respawn invincibility exist?

b4 wolf we need

Quote: Sleepy0429

b4 wolf we need

Reveal Spoiler

Pichu

#bringbackpichu

Quote: Sleepy0429

b4 wolf we need

Reveal Spoiler

Pichu

pichu + rage + hurting itself


my god

Quote: Sleepy0429

b4 wolf we need

Reveal Spoiler

Pichu

I love Pichu <3

Quote: Sleepy0429

b4 wolf we need

Reveal Spoiler

Pichu

It's probably gonna happen, but definitely not before Wolf.

Quote: Sleepy0429

b4 wolf we need

Reveal Spoiler

Pichu

I really don't see it happening. No one liked Pichu in Melee, and they brought Mewtwo back because people wanted him to be better. I rarely hear anyone give two cents about Pichu.

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: Sleepy0429

b4 wolf we need

Reveal Spoiler

Pichu

I really don't see it happening. No one liked Pichu in Melee, and they brought Mewtwo back because people wanted him to be better. I rarely hear anyone give two cents about Pichu.

Joke


You

I only voted for Ice Climbers and Hat Kid... Which are both likely to not happen...

Quote: AJAwesome

I only voted for Ice Climbers and Hat Kid... Which are both likely to not happen...

I'm really hoping the Ice Climbers comeback. I was kinda surprised when then weren't in the actual game.

I feel like if they return somebody will forget to nerf the infinite combo and make the Ice Climbers op.

Imagine their smash ball in some of the stage...

Quote: slambam104

Imagine their smash ball in some of the stage...

Imagine 8-player smash

Quote: I-Brawler

Quote: slambam104

Imagine their smash ball in some of the stage...

Imagine 8-player smash

Who plays 8 player smash?

Quote: somePerson

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: Sleepy0429

b4 wolf we need

Reveal Spoiler

Pichu

I really don't see it happening. No one liked Pichu in Melee, and they brought Mewtwo back because people wanted him to be better. I rarely hear anyone give two cents about Pichu.

Joke


You

You think I didn't know that ***hole?

Not playing along with a joke =/= Not realizing it's a joke

Quote: somePerson

Quote: I-Brawler

Quote: slambam104

Imagine their smash ball in some of the stage...

Imagine 8-player smash

Who plays 8 player smash?

I would if I had the WiiU version.

I really would like Pichu to get in if they changed him up a tiny bit: He'd be extremely powerful with his electric attacks, more so than Pikachu and most other fighters, being one of the most powerful fighters in the game. Due to him using so much powerful energy however, he damages himself when he uses them. That would make Pichu a pretty interesting risk-reward fighter that is small, fast, and powerful, while also being easily KO'd due to his small weight and self-damaging attacks.

Quote: LunarDistortion

I really would like Pichu to get in if they changed him up a tiny bit: He'd be extremely powerful with his electric attacks, more so than Pikachu and most other fighters, being one of the most powerful fighters in the game. Due to him using so much powerful energy however, he damages himself when he uses them. That would make Pichu a pretty interesting risk-reward fighter that is small, fast, and powerful, while also being easily KO'd due to his small weight and self-damaging attacks.

That's literally what they did with Pichu in Melee and he was the worst character in the game. Sakurai even said he was only included as a joke, to intentionally create a bad character.

but now there's rage

I always thought it would be cool if the Pichu brothers from the Pokemon anime were their own characters, kind of like Ice Climbers. Obviously it won't happen but it'd still be interesting to see.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: LunarDistortion

I really would like Pichu to get in if they changed him up a tiny bit: He'd be extremely powerful with his electric attacks, more so than Pikachu and most other fighters, being one of the most powerful fighters in the game. Due to him using so much powerful energy however, he damages himself when he uses them. That would make Pichu a pretty interesting risk-reward fighter that is small, fast, and powerful, while also being easily KO'd due to his small weight and self-damaging attacks.

That's literally what they did with Pichu in Melee and he was the worst character in the game. Sakurai even said he was only included as a joke, to intentionally create a bad character.

It was pretty poorly executed, because as you said, he was intentionally bad. That doesn't make it impossible for him to change. Make him better this time, increase how much damage he deals and decrease weight a bit. Do something to make him play better.

Roy's different than he was in Melee. So is Mewtwo, Doc, and a lot of other veterans. Just because he was the worst character in Melee doesn't mean he always has to be.

Quote: LunarDistortion

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: LunarDistortion

I really would like Pichu to get in if they changed him up a tiny bit: He'd be extremely powerful with his electric attacks, more so than Pikachu and most other fighters, being one of the most powerful fighters in the game. Due to him using so much powerful energy however, he damages himself when he uses them. That would make Pichu a pretty interesting risk-reward fighter that is small, fast, and powerful, while also being easily KO'd due to his small weight and self-damaging attacks.

That's literally what they did with Pichu in Melee and he was the worst character in the game. Sakurai even said he was only included as a joke, to intentionally create a bad character.

It was pretty poorly executed, because as you said, he was intentionally bad. That doesn't make it impossible for him to change. Make him better this time, increase how much damage he deals and decrease weight a bit. Do something to make him play better.

Roy's different than he was in Melee. So is Mewtwo, Doc, and a lot of other veterans. Just because he was the worst character in Melee doesn't mean he always has to be.

But the entire point of his inclusion was that Sakurai knew nobody would want to play as him. I highly doubt he will be brought back, especially since Mewtwo already fills the quota as a Pokémon DLC character.

Plus, bringing back Pichu would ruin the interesting little tidbit of Smash lore, that the Pikachu in Brawl and Smash 4 IS the Pichu from Melee.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: LunarDistortion

Quote: sonicbrawler182

That's literally what they did with Pichu in Melee and he was the worst character in the game. Sakurai even said he was only included as a joke, to intentionally create a bad character.

It was pretty poorly executed, because as you said, he was intentionally bad. That doesn't make it impossible for him to change. Make him better this time, increase how much damage he deals and decrease weight a bit. Do something to make him play better.

Roy's different than he was in Melee. So is Mewtwo, Doc, and a lot of other veterans. Just because he was the worst character in Melee doesn't mean he always has to be.

But the entire point of his inclusion was that Sakurai knew nobody would want to play as him. I highly doubt he will be brought back, especially since Mewtwo already fills the quota as a Pokémon DLC character.

Plus, bringing back Pichu would ruin the interesting little tidbit of Smash lore, that the Pikachu in Brawl and Smash 4 IS the Pichu from Melee.

I don't think he'll be included either, but I think it would be fun to have him back.

While that is true about the Pichu/Pikachu connection, the easiest solution for that is to simply bring in a new Pichu. :P

I just really don't want another clone/semi-clone as DLC (Wolf barely even counts as a semi-clone so I'd be fine with him, though). Lucas was fine since a lot of people liked him, and I guess the same could be said for Roy in a meme kind of way (in truth, he isn't genuinely liked in the game he comes from, Smash fans just bandwagoned for him and that's where his "demand" came from), but Pichu is pushing it, since he's so similar to Pikachu, and in a way, IS Pikachu. And you can't really do anything to differentiate him beyond what was done in Melee, since by virtue of the fact he's just a younger evolution of Pikachu, he HAS to be strikingly similar. It's in his character.

Also I don't see The Pokémon Company allowing it, as Pichu isn't really marketable at all anymore.

Although Pichu wasn't actually ranked the worst SSBM character, that was Kirby.