darkSpyro

seriously this is the first I'm hearing of Luigi being top tier

can someone please explain to me how in the heck he got there

Quote: I-Brawler

seriously this is the first I'm hearing of Luigi being top tier

can someone please explain to me how in the heck he got there

He's not top tier. He's high tier, along with Mario.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: I-Brawler

seriously this is the first I'm hearing of Luigi being top tier

can someone please explain to me how in the heck he got there

He's not top tier. He's high tier, along with Mario.

Oh. KK then.

My brother thinks Mewtwo is a girl....

Quote: skylandersspyro

My brother thinks Mewtwo is a girl....

I'm guessing you haven't watched this movie then.

On the topic of Smash though, Mewtwo is technically Genderless, but its laugh in Melee, and its lines in Japanese in the same game hint towards male.

Quote: skylandersspyro

My brother thinks Mewtwo is a girl....

..There isn't just one Mewtwo, there are multiple. One is a "female," and the other is a "male."

The quotation marks meaning that Mewtwo is completely genderless, along with about 95% of all Legendary Pokemon.

Quote: Mesuxelf

I'm up to smash if anyone else is.

Quote: mega spyro

Quote: TacoMakerSkys

Diddy's just broken as hell, and I expect that he's fixed with the new update coming on the 15th, so that's why he's apparently god tier

How is it that he's so good? I've tried him a couple times, and I don't know why he is so good. Is there some kind of strategy that I'm missing, or what?

Down throw Up air

Sorry, but there is nothing special about that combo.

Quote: Mrmorrises

Personally, I find Zero Suit Samus to be the most overpowered character in the game, though that's probably just because her play style and attacks go well with me and I'm just good with her. I'm working on utilizing the seemingly greater potential that Rosalina and Sheik have. Oh and yes, Diddy Kong is broken.

ZSS, Diddy and Shiek just have fast movement speed. Their specials are actually kind of slow, and they basically rely on being able to combo for as long as possible because they take hits horribly. Even the big guys can't be countered forever, and the big guys, as slow and combo lacking as they are, can usually KO those characters in only a few hits.

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: Mesuxelf

I'm up to smash if anyone else is.

Quote: mega spyro

How is it that he's so good? I've tried him a couple times, and I don't know why he is so good. Is there some kind of strategy that I'm missing, or what?

Down throw Up air

Sorry, but there is nothing special about that combo.

Quote: Mrmorrises

Personally, I find Zero Suit Samus to be the most overpowered character in the game, though that's probably just because her play style and attacks go well with me and I'm just good with her. I'm working on utilizing the seemingly greater potential that Rosalina and Sheik have. Oh and yes, Diddy Kong is broken.

ZSS, Diddy and Shiek just have fast movement speed. Their specials are actually kind of slow, and they basically rely on being able to combo for as long as possible because they take hits horribly. Even the big guys can't be countered forever, and the big guys, as slow and combo lacking as they are, can usually KO those characters in only a few hits.

let me just

there is everything special about that combo

Diddy's up air is a very strong K.O. move at mid percentages when near the upper blast line. And his down throw leads right into 2 or 3 of them.

Honestly I don't think Diddy's down throw to up air combo is all that special. Simply because so many characters have great down throw to something combos. I KO'd a Marth player yesterday with Rosalina's Up air at 40%. I've also seen Diddy get KO'd by it as early as 20%. And her Down Throw sets up for it perfectly, as does her up throw.

I'm just gonna leave this here.

Quote: Lunarz

I'm just gonna leave this here.

Pretty accurate.

Quote: Lunarz

I'm just gonna leave this here.

That was made before the Wii U version came out.

Tier lists are not constant, they change and develop over time. Sonic and Yoshi were bumped up a while ago because people discovered loads of cool tricks and combos with Sonic, and the sheer solidity of Yoshi's toolset. ZSS was also bumped down because people learned how to deal with her stun gun and Down B, which were the two things keeping her so high.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: Lunarz

I'm just gonna leave this here.

That was made before the Wii U version came out.

Tier lists are not constant, they change and develop over time. Sonic and Yoshi were bumped up a while ago because people discovered loads of cool tricks and combos with Sonic, and the sheer solidity of Yoshi's toolset. ZSS was also bumped down because people learned how to deal with her stun gun and Down B, which were the two things keeping her so high.

Where? Just general public opinion?

LUIGI HOW DID YOU GET SO HIGH UP

Quote: Mrmorrises

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: Lunarz

I'm just gonna leave this here.

That was made before the Wii U version came out.

Tier lists are not constant, they change and develop over time. Sonic and Yoshi were bumped up a while ago because people discovered loads of cool tricks and combos with Sonic, and the sheer solidity of Yoshi's toolset. ZSS was also bumped down because people learned how to deal with her stun gun and Down B, which were the two things keeping her so high.

Where? Just general public opinion?

Ah, I see now it was made in February.

It's a culmination of votes from the 'Official' /r/ Smash bros page.

I found a more reliable list. http://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssb4/ Or so I believe.

Once again all of you are obviously far more versed in Smash so if this list is just bull**** then call it out.

Quote: Lunarz

Quote: Mrmorrises

Quote: sonicbrawler182

That was made before the Wii U version came out.

Tier lists are not constant, they change and develop over time. Sonic and Yoshi were bumped up a while ago because people discovered loads of cool tricks and combos with Sonic, and the sheer solidity of Yoshi's toolset. ZSS was also bumped down because people learned how to deal with her stun gun and Down B, which were the two things keeping her so high.

Where? Just general public opinion?

Ah, I see now it was made in February.

It's a culmination of votes from the 'Official' /r/ Smash bros page.

I found a more reliable list. http://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssb4/ Or so I believe.

Once again all of you are obviously far more versed in Smash so if this list is just bull**** then call it out.

Yeah, that's the list I look at, as it's the most credible one out there.

Quote: I-Brawler

LUIGI HOW DID YOU GET SO HIGH UP

IDFK LIKE WHAT

Customs off



Customs on

Why is my waifu Zelda on the bottom of that tier list? Take her off or I will eat you.

Also does Charizard actually suck? But Charizard is my boi ;~;

They should've brought Pokemon Trainer back and just buffed him tbh.

I personally don't listen to /r/smashbros tier list/ Mainly because everyone is so butthurt about who is op and who's not.

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

I personally don't listen to /r/smashbros tier list/ Mainly because everyone is so butthurt about who is op and who's not.

not yelling at you

Quote: Lunarz

Why is my waifu Zelda on the bottom of that tier list? Take her off or I will eat you.

Also does Charizard actually suck? But Charizard is my boi ;~;

They should've brought Pokemon Trainer back and just buffed him tbh.

No one in this game sucks (other than Mii swordfighter), but they're just not as good as others.

r/smashbros tier lists are pretty damn ridiculous sometimes. Pac-Man was once at the bottom tier which is ridiculous considering how he is, and they only started to give him slight credit after APEX.

They ranked Ike super high once because of one decent tourney performance. They overrate Cpt. Falcon because he's just popular with everyone. And they underrate Palutena, Little Mac, and Falco, among other issues.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Honestly I don't think Diddy's down throw to up air combo is all that special. Simply because so many characters have great down throw to something combos.

I agree and disagree. HOO HAH is pretty damn good at setting up for a kill and his uair kills pretty easily. His fair also has good knockback at high percentages, which is what I often end up using instead of uair.

But at the same time I think R.O.B.'s d-throw > uair is the best in game. Deals good damage, can lead into two uairs if you know what you're doing, can set up into other strings, and can kill fairly easily.

/r/smashbros have a crappy tier list, and eventhubs are not much better. They are basically popularity contests. I can literally go on eventhubs right now and give Mii Swordfighter a ton of votes if I wanted to.

A tier list is not supposed to be represent intermediate opinion, it is based off of character potential in high level play and tournament results.

EDIT: Hoo Hah is good but it's not inescapable as people claim it is, you can DI out of it. I find Rosalina and Mario have much better combos starting from their Down Throws, and Sonic has some really interesting things he can do with his too.

What you all think of Lucario?

I know he's generally considered very good, but I feel like he's underrated.

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

What you all think of Lucario?

I know he's generally considered very good, but I feel like he's underrated.

Lucario isn't really that great until he is at high damage. He's basically a clutch character.

It's a shame too, because if it weren't for the obnoxious Aura effect and if he had his power more consistently balanced, I would really like Lucario. In theory, his moveset is really diverse and covers a lot of bases.

Lucario is pretty good. Personally I think he's a bit too weak at the start for my tastes, meaning that me playing him practically requires getting pummeled until aura really kicks in. His counter is the most difficult for me to land in the entire game and his side-B isn't very great for me.

But I definitely understand the appeal.

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

What you all think of Lucario?

I know he's generally considered very good, but I feel like he's underrated.

MAX AURA

Yoshi has been and always will be my greatest friend.

Also I hear there's a Yarn Yoshi amiibo.....So why wasn't Yarn Yoshi a skin in Smash and where is my Yarn Yoshi DLC right the heck now?

Any thoughts on DK?

Quote: Lunarz

Yoshi has been and always will be my greatest friend.

Also I hear there's a Yarn Yoshi amiibo.....So why wasn't Yarn Yoshi a skin in Smash and where is my Yarn Yoshi DLC right the heck now?

I've heard they're compatible with SSB, too. There's a stage for Wooly World, though.

I'm hoping for a Newcomer "Clones" DLC pack with Yarn Yoshi, Paper Mario, Kamui, etc., with each character having slight differences to their normal counterparts, or a completely different moveset altogether.

DK is pretty good slow but good

Quote: Qcumber

Quote: Lunarz

Yoshi has been and always will be my greatest friend.

Also I hear there's a Yarn Yoshi amiibo.....So why wasn't Yarn Yoshi a skin in Smash and where is my Yarn Yoshi DLC right the heck now?

I've heard they're compatible with SSB, too. There's a stage for Wooly World, though.

I'm hoping for a Newcomer "Clones" DLC pack with Yarn Yoshi, Paper Mario, Kamui, etc., with each character having slight differences to their normal counterparts, or a completely different moveset altogether.

Honestly why isn't Paper Mario a character instead of stupid Dr. Mario? Paper Mario could EASILY have his own moveset, EASILY. And it'd be amazingly cool because he could use his TTYD ****erparts to do attacks (Let's be honest, screw the Super Paper mario partners and screw Sticker Star having no partners)

Or better yet we could just have Dimentio from Super Paper Mario, he's one of the best Nintendo villains and he could do anything Paper Mario could and more.

Quote: Mesuxelf

Any thoughts on DK?

He's one of my favourite heavyweights along with Ike.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Or better yet we could just have Dimentio from Super Paper Mario, he's one of the best Nintendo villains and he could do anything Paper Mario could and more.

And yet Paper Mario still defeats him.

Question.

Am I the only one who feels like A LOT of characters have too much open/ending lag after moves? Charizard, Shulk and Robin suffer from this along. I now it's supposed to be balanced but it still feels like WAY TO MUCH.

Quote: Lunarz

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Or better yet we could just have Dimentio from Super Paper Mario, he's one of the best Nintendo villains and he could do anything Paper Mario could and more.

And yet Paper Mario still defeats him.

Through the power of biased and "we have to make the mascot shine" writing, yeah. Same BS that caused Rosalina to "need Mario's help" even though she can fly and teleport and turn gigantic in a platforming game, and is basically the Mario universe's equivalent to god.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: Lunarz

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Or better yet we could just have Dimentio from Super Paper Mario, he's one of the best Nintendo villains and he could do anything Paper Mario could and more.

And yet Paper Mario still defeats him.

Through the power of biased and "we have to make the mascot shine" writing, yeah. Same BS that caused Rosalina to "need Mario's help" even though she can fly and teleport and turn gigantic in a platforming game, and is basically the Mario universe's equivalent to god.

But that's why I like Paper Mario, cuz it really isn't biased, at least TTYD isn't. You start off sucking like crazy and need to build yourself accordingly to your challenges and opponents.

Quote: Lunarz

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote: Lunarz

And yet Paper Mario still defeats him.

Through the power of biased and "we have to make the mascot shine" writing, yeah. Same BS that caused Rosalina to "need Mario's help" even though she can fly and teleport and turn gigantic in a platforming game, and is basically the Mario universe's equivalent to god.

But that's why I like Paper Mario, cuz it really isn't biased, at least TTYD isn't. You start off sucking like crazy and need to build yourself accordingly to your challenges and opponents.

Dimentio can teleport Mario to different dimensions. At will. If he did more of that, Mario would never beat him. Simple as that. It's just a case of "main character needs to win or look like the needed hero, so we will conveniently make it so that he can be", except they don't do it effectively in Mario games, they just automatically expect us to assume Mario is needed or is the best even if we see he clearly isn't.

This isn't even what I meant with my initial post, though. I just meant that I'd rather an actual character unique to the Paper Mario series in Smash than just Paper Mario. Paper Mario is just Mario drawn in a different art style. You could give him different moves, but why not just make a unique moveset for another Paper Mario character instead?

Am I the only one who feels like A LOT of characters have too much open/ending lag after moves? Charizard, Shulk and Robin suffer from this along. I now it's supposed to be balanced but it still feels like WAY TO MUCH.

But really, there is a lot more of it then in Brawl and Melee.

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

Am I the only one who feels like A LOT of characters have too much open/ending lag after moves? Charizard, Shulk and Robin suffer from this along. I now it's supposed to be balanced but it still feels like WAY TO MUCH.

But really, there is a lot more of it then in Brawl and Melee.

There isn't. It's balanced on a move by move basis this time, rather than having an overarching slowness or speediness.

Quote: HeyitsHotDog

What you all think of Lucario?

I know he's generally considered very good, but I feel like he's underrated.

He's up there.One of the best and most versatile pokemon characters.

Quote: Mesuxelf

Customs off



Customs on

I'm seeing something rather different on Event Hub. Wario, especially, is kind of high up there considering how low he is on Event Hub. Do people have different tiering?

Quote: Lunarz

Quote: Qcumber

Quote: Lunarz

Yoshi has been and always will be my greatest friend.

Also I hear there's a Yarn Yoshi amiibo.....So why wasn't Yarn Yoshi a skin in Smash and where is my Yarn Yoshi DLC right the heck now?

I've heard they're compatible with SSB, too. There's a stage for Wooly World, though.

I'm hoping for a Newcomer "Clones" DLC pack with Yarn Yoshi, Paper Mario, Kamui, etc., with each character having slight differences to their normal counterparts, or a completely different moveset altogether.

Honestly why isn't Paper Mario a character instead of stupid Dr. Mario? Paper Mario could EASILY have his own moveset, EASILY. And it'd be amazingly cool because he could use his TTYD ****erparts to do attacks (Let's be honest, screw the Super Paper mario partners and screw Sticker Star having no partners)

Because of time constraints, they didn't have the time to make Paper Mario his own original character with custom assets, victory music, hit/hurt boxes, and stats different from everybody else in the cast. Instead of leaving the roster smaller than it is now, they took 3 of the existing models being used for Alternate costumes (Doc was a Mario alt, Lucina was a Marth alt, and Dark Pit an alt for Pit.), and took a short amount of time working on turning those 3 in separate fighters. They didn't say "Doctor Mario is a much better character choice than Paper Mario!", they didn't have a choice and did what made Doc into a character in the first place back in Melee, make him a last minute addition.

I'm pretty sure they never considered Paper Mario in the first place. There's been no indication of it.

I mean, not like I'm trying to....argue here, but they could've just taken Mario, given him some new textures, and flattened him like Mr G&W.

Though I don't think Mario's moves would fit in with Paper Mario but hey....*decent end to sentence*

I'm honestly happy to see that ROB, Wario, Game and Watch and the master King Dedede finally have a fighting chance now.

Quote: I-Brawler

I mean, not like I'm trying to....argue here, but they could've just taken Mario, given him some new textures, and flattened him like Mr G&W.

Though I don't think Mario's moves would fit in with Paper Mario but hey....*decent end to sentence*

Paper Mario doesn't share like, any abilities with 3D mario other than his jump

Quote: Lunarz

Quote: I-Brawler

I mean, not like I'm trying to....argue here, but they could've just taken Mario, given him some new textures, and flattened him like Mr G&W.

Though I don't think Mario's moves would fit in with Paper Mario but hey....*decent end to sentence*

Paper Mario doesn't share like, any abilities with 3D mario other than his jump

Fire Balls, jumping for coins. and.....