darkSpyro

While not illegal, it is a practice of questionable ethics. It's akin to buying a steel wrench to fix something at your house, then returning it when done. Is the wrench damaged or less usable to the next customer? No, but you got your use of the wrench and the store got nothing. Worse, some poor store employee now has to schlep the wrench back to its home on the sales floor. If you want to borrow Skylanders, buy used ones and trade them in when done. Better yet, borrow from a friend or convince your local library to stock Skylanders. Target, Walmart, and Best Buy aren't nonprofit organizations.

Quote: Dark fhoenix

Wow thats just so SAD . All this just to unlock some goofy ingame content ? The 6 yr old Portal Master community applaud your " heroics "

6 Year olds? It's a rather ignorant misconception that the game is targeted at 6 year olds when ESRB rates its content as appropriate for nearly DOUBLE that age... (E10+ means its for 10 year olds and up)... If Activision were to OPENLY target an audience of 6-year olds (as in, go out of their way to appeal to an audience that ESRB says shouldn't be playing the game), then they'd be hearing from the FCC
And no, it's not just Trap Team that's rated E10+, Spyro's Adventure, Giants, AND SWAP Force are ALL E10+

There's a BIG difference between parents buying their kids a game they're supposed to be too young for, and a company INTENTIONALLY pitching their product to an audience that's too young

(they've been that way since the beginning too, my Spyro's Adventure case, which was like, 1st/2nd edition... says E10+, unlike Smash Brothers, which has been rated T at launch, then eventually downgraded to E/E10+ since Melee [at least Melee and Brawl, but its too soon to tell for sure for SSB4])

Quote: Pacifickarma

While not illegal, it is a practice of questionable ethics. It's akin to buying a steel wrench to fix something at your house, then returning it when done. Is the wrench damaged or less usable to the next customer? No, but you got your use of the wrench and the store got nothing. Worse, some poor store employee now has to schlep the wrench back to its home on the sales floor. If you want to borrow Skylanders, buy used ones and trade them in when done. Better yet, borrow from a friend or convince your local library to stock Skylanders. Target, Walmart, and Best Buy aren't nonprofit organizations.

To me, this sort of comment demonstrates a lack of perspective, specifically the company's overall perspective.

10 years ago (perhaps before your days) returns were a lot more difficult and subject to more stringent requirements. But big boxes like Best Buy, Target, and Wal Mart have liberalized their return policies as a courtesy to the consumer. The calculus here is that yes, some customer may avail themselves of a liberal return policy more than others, but these same customers are also return customers. They still net profit, because someone who buys and returns without hassle, is more likely to return to the store and purchase again.

I think you're getting hung up on the details of your hypothetical rather than what the company wants as a whole.

Let's return to your wrench analogy. Ok I got a leaky faucet, needs to be tightened, so I trot on down to target, pick up this wrench. I return home, crank the faucet and it's not working so well. I can't get a good grip on the smooth metal of the wrench, so I return the wrench and purchase one with a rubber handle. That first wrench gets back on the shelf, despite use. Because it was hassle free, I have now walked out with a slightly more expensive wrench.

Or let's say I used the wrench and my girlish arms maintained grip and I fixed that leak. I don't want the wrench anymore because I'll never need to crank anything again (sarcasm) and I return the wrench for a full refund. Next time I need to purchase a tool (which I may or may not return) where am I going to go? probably the same store that I went to for the wrench. Or how about that trip to return the item? clerk asks me if I used it and say yes, but I just don't like it or think i will need it anymore. Per their return policy, they return the item. Maybe I purchase a case of soda while i'm there, or a pack of undershirts.

Again, this is big perspective stuff. The companies have calculated that they are more likely to receive higher volume return customers with a generous return policy. They don't have these return policies out of the kindness of their hearts, they are doing it for themselves and for profit.

It's a lot like those discount cards you carry on your key chain. Do you think your local grocer can only offer discounts because of the card? Absolutely not, they are tracking your purchases for consumer data. Again, this for the benefit of shareholders, not consumers.

This topic is derailing faster than the Nightmare Express, if a molekin was driving it.

You ALL do realize that he never said that he was systematically going to return all the characters that unlocked something, just for the sake of it... Right?

He specified that he first plays with all ther characters enought to understand if he likes them or not, and then decide.
I doubt he, or anyone, would simply buy a character just for the sake of opening a Gate or reaching a specific area, without giving him/her a chance.
That wouldn't be immoral, in my opinion... Just... Plain nonsensical.
And unrespectful, since someone else could have bought that Skylander (to keep it).

The title asks what it asks, but from what Slamzilla posted, I doubt he does it himself.

Again, legally, buying something with the intent to use it for the intended purpose, then return it *IS* return fraud. Period. It is not libel to state what return fraud is. If YOU choose to admit to it, that's on you, my friend.

Fraud is all about intent. If I buy a figure and I don't like it, it doesn't work, whatever - that's one thing. HOWEVER, if you intend, from the outset, to purchase the figure in order to use it and return it, then you are partaking in fraud. Stores have policies in place (like satisfaction guaranteed) because they want to take care of you if the wrench doesn't work, not because you used it for the intended purpose, were satisfied with it, but were done with it and no longer needed it.

As for Target's return policy quoted above - not that it says "NEW". if you take a device intended to store data, use it to store data, then that device has been used.

Oh, and, as for returns being easier now - I don't know what world y'all live in. Nowadays, most major retailers now require a receipt in order to process a return. Toys R Us, Best Buy, Target, Menards... the list goes on. The main major hold-out there is Walmart, where you're required to produce an ID for returns without a receipt. Back in the day, you didn't really have this issue and could bring merchandise in without a receipt or ID and walk out with store credit (or even cash). It's a give-and-take. Retailers are trying to determine what they can do to make customers happy while minimizing fraudulent returns. I foresee Walmrt going to a receipt-required system in the next ten years.

Quote: Slamzilla

Quote: Pacifickarma

While not illegal, it is a practice of questionable ethics. It's akin to buying a steel wrench to fix something at your house, then returning it when done. Is the wrench damaged or less usable to the next customer? No, but you got your use of the wrench and the store got nothing. Worse, some poor store employee now has to schlep the wrench back to its home on the sales floor. If you want to borrow Skylanders, buy used ones and trade them in when done. Better yet, borrow from a friend or convince your local library to stock Skylanders. Target, Walmart, and Best Buy aren't nonprofit organizations.

To me, this sort of comment demonstrates a lack of perspective, specifically the company's overall perspective.

10 years ago (perhaps before your days) returns were a lot more difficult and subject to more stringent requirements. But big boxes like Best Buy, Target, and Wal Mart have liberalized their return policies as a courtesy to the consumer. The calculus here is that yes, some customer may avail themselves of a liberal return policy more than others, but these same customers are also return customers. They still net profit, because someone who buys and returns without hassle, is more likely to return to the store and purchase again.

I think you're getting hung up on the details of your hypothetical rather than what the company wants as a whole.

Let's return to your wrench analogy. Ok I got a leaky faucet, needs to be tightened, so I trot on down to target, pick up this wrench. I return home, crank the faucet and it's not working so well. I can't get a good grip on the smooth metal of the wrench, so I return the wrench and purchase one with a rubber handle. That first wrench gets back on the shelf, despite use. Because it was hassle free, I have now walked out with a slightly more expensive wrench.

Or let's say I used the wrench and my girlish arms maintained grip and I fixed that leak. I don't want the wrench anymore because I'll never need to crank anything again (sarcasm) and I return the wrench for a full refund. Next time I need to purchase a tool (which I may or may not return) where am I going to go? probably the same store that I went to for the wrench. Or how about that trip to return the item? clerk asks me if I used it and say yes, but I just don't like it or think i will need it anymore. Per their return policy, they return the item. Maybe I purchase a case of soda while i'm there, or a pack of undershirts.

Again, this is big perspective stuff. The companies have calculated that they are more likely to receive higher volume return customers with a generous return policy. They don't have these return policies out of the kindness of their hearts, they are doing it for themselves and for profit.

It's a lot like those discount cards you carry on your key chain. Do you think your local grocer can only offer discounts because of the card? Absolutely not, they are tracking your purchases for consumer data. Again, this for the benefit of shareholders, not consumers.

Someone who returns something is more likely to purchase something in the future, yeah, but they're also more likely to RETURN what they buy then someone who NEVER does unless the product was already damaged or something...

And, we're talking about principles, and that's not about what this does for the company... It's about getting something for nothing, it's about cheating your way AROUND the system, and for what? a save file that reads 100%? a few hats that do next to NOTHING but look cool?
Yeah, you earned it... I mean, it's not like the only difficulty in getting the stuff in those gates is having the right figurine for the job or anything... No, there's some REALLY tough puzzles past them... /sarcasm

It's been nearly four years since Skylanders first appeared on store shelves; this topic probably comes up at least once every iteration. Activision knew that people could do this before Spyro's Adventure was even released, and yet they have always made the figures playable within the box.

Did this influence Swap Force, in which you have to open the package to utilize the main component of that gimmick? Other than that, so far, they've been very accomodating to Portal Masters who like to keep their figures in the box. It just really doesn't seem to be an issue for them. And the stores freaking love Skylanders; the racks empty almost as soon as they're replenished. Except for water traps, natch.

The morality of this issue possibly resides entirely within the relationship between the purchaser and the retailer. You could probably look right in the face of most store managers, tell them that you purchased a figure simply to open in-game content, and now want a full refund, and as long as the product is still in sellable condition, they'll give you back your money without hesitation.

Have I ever purchased a figure with the sole intent of unlocking a gate and then returning it? No.

As Drek pointed out, that's kinda silly, in a lost opportunity kind-of way. Almost all of these characters, once fully upgraded and tested on the field of battle, prove their merit in some way, be it form or function.

Also it's not just hats behind gates... Spotlight's Soul gem is behind a light elemental gate.

Quote: Slamzilla

Also it's not just hats behind gates... Spotlight's Soul gem is behind a light elemental gate.

That's a good point. Where on Spot Light's or Black Out's package does it say "Additional TRAP MASTER ONLY purchase required for final move"? Yet another stinging realization once you've already committed to the game and a figure but have NO WAY OF KNOWING before you buy that you need yet another more expensive figure.

Where on Spotlight or Blackout's package does it say the figure has the move unlocked by the soul gem?

Quote: UncleBob

Where on Spotlight or Blackout's package does it say the figure has the move unlocked by the soul gem?

Ummmmm what? Every Skylander since SSA has had an additional move unlocked by obtaining their Soul Gem. Previously you could do this with most of your collection (although this problem of gimmick gates did start in Swap Force) you could unlock and gain the ability mostly with elements you already had. If your point is that a lot is left off the label, yeah it is. I do believe it's quite crappy to lock content and abilities behind other purchases when I'm expecting to, AT LEAST, be able to use the figure I just purchased to it's full potential. Is that unreasonable? Has the system of "buy another Skylander to fully use the one you already bought" ever been the case? Were there any Soul Gems locked behind Swap gates in Swap Force? My point is that they are clearly going down a morally ambiguous path themselves and I doubt they care if we find a work around to their own dubious business practices.

Quote: Slamzilla

Lol, methinks someone had to look up the word libel. I'm not internet lawyer but I'm pretty sure claiming someone is breaking the law when they are not amounts to a false statement. Not return fraud.

I understood the word just fine. But, while we are in the business of looking up things, here let me help you out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_fraud

Bullet point number 1:

Quote:

Some examples of the return fraud and abuse problems include:

Wardrobing or renting: Purchasing merchandise for short-term use with the intent to return the item, such as a dress for a special occasion, a video camera for graduations and weddings or a big-screen television for the Super Bowl.

That is exactly what you are doing. No libel. (I'm still laughing at how quickly you fell into that like you thought you were going to scare kids or something)

I understand that you wanted to come here and proclaim your brilliant plan and have us all marvel your ingenuity, but that isn't what happened. Most people would have realized what they were saying isn't as awesome as you thought it was, and maybe packed it in after a post or two realizing the mis-calculation. But not you, no sir, time to get mad at everyone and say they are libeling you and being meanies! And you keep confusing "what you can get away with" and "what is right/legal".

BTW, you can thank people in the past with your brilliant plan for "restocking fees" that many stores charge on electronics.

Quote: defpally

Quote: Slamzilla

Lol, methinks someone had to look up the word libel. I'm not internet lawyer but I'm pretty sure claiming someone is breaking the law when they are not amounts to a false statement. Not return fraud.

I understood the word just fine. But, while we are in the business of looking up things, here let me help you out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_fraud

Bullet point number 1:

Quote:

Some examples of the return fraud and abuse problems include:

Wardrobing or renting: Purchasing merchandise for short-term use with the intent to return the item, such as a dress for a special occasion, a video camera for graduations and weddings or a big-screen television for the Super Bowl.

That is exactly what you are doing. No libel. (I'm still laughing at how quickly you fell into that like you thought you were going to scare kids or something)

I understand that you wanted to come here and proclaim your brilliant plan and have us all marvel your ingenuity, but that isn't what happened. Most people would have realized what they were saying isn't as awesome as you thought it was, and maybe packed it in after a post or two realizing the mis-calculation. But not you, no sir, time to get mad at everyone and say they are libeling you and being meanies! And you keep confusing "what you can get away with" and "what is right/legal".

BTW, you can thank people in the past with your brilliant plan for "restocking fees" that many stores charge on electronics.

So there should be a statute that could be cited, correct? What is the statute?

Quote: Drek95

This topic is derailing faster than the Nightmare Express, if a molekin was driving it.

I'm going off the rails on this crazy train.

Besides, you're comparing apples and oranges. I'm not wearing this skylander, and it's not an electronic that I'm taking out of the box and returning. It's an unopened electronic toy. No worse for the wear, and also (I seemingly can't stress this enough) returned according to the stipulations of the target return policy.

Unopened= new condition
Skylander reset = no data = new condition

Reading through your wikipedia article (which should always be your first choice to cite)
1.) this is "Return abuse" described as "a form of “friendly fraud” where someone purchases products without intending to keep them.
2.) you'll see the kinds of acts that constitute "fraud" according to your article generally involve some form of theft. (e.g. stealing an item and returning, stealing a receipt, or buying a similar item and returning a broken one in its place). This is none of those things.
3.) If it's criminal there should be a statute where all elements are satisfied by my transactions. So... what's that statute?

I'll help ya out and provide with a link to the NC theft laws http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLe...Article_16.html

The most germane statute I can find reads:

§ 14-72.11. Larceny from a merchant.
A person is guilty of a Class H felony if the person commits larceny against a merchant under any of the following circumstances:
(1) If the property taken has a value of more than two hundred dollars ($200.00), by using an exit door erected and maintained to comply with the requirements of 29 C.F.R. § 1910.36 and 29 C.F.R. § 1910.37 upon which door has been placed a notice, sign, or poster providing information about the felony offense and punishment provided under this subsection, to exit the premises of a store.
(2) By removing, destroying, or deactivating a component of an antishoplifting or inventory control device to prevent the activation of any antishoplifting or inventory control device.
(3) By affixing a product code created for the purpose of fraudulently obtaining goods or merchandise from a merchant at less than its actual sale price.
(4) When the property is infant formula valued in excess of one hundred dollars ($100.00). As used in this subsection, the term "infant formula," has the same meaning as found in 21 U.S.C. § 321(z). (2007-373, s. 2; 2008-187, s. 34(b).)

Quote: Slamzilla

So there should be a statute that could be cited, correct? What is the statute?

I'm not sure where you are from, but I'm sure they have laws pertaining to obtaining items/money through deceptive methods. Besides the term "Return Fraud" does not necessarily mean "against the law". Again you are falling back on that "if I can get away with it that makes it ok".

Look, it's cool if unlocking a gate so a number in your video game goes up is more important to you than honesty, but don't try to dress it up as anything else.

Quote: Tigorus

Ummmmm what? Every Skylander since SSA has had an additional move unlocked by obtaining their Soul Gem. [...]Has the system of "buy another Skylander to fully use the one you already bought" ever been the case?

Just because it's been that way in previous games, does not mean Activision has any obligation to keep it that way. Mewtwo. was a free unlockable character in previous Smash games - now, he isn't. Same with Lucas.
Just because your parents used to let you drive their car, it doesn't mean you can just take off with it at the age of 40.

The claim is "The package doesn't state you need to buy more figures to access this feature!"

Well, the package doesn't state the figure has that feature.

And *this* has been the practice since the second entry in the series. None of my SSA figures said I had to buy an entire second game to "fully upgrade" my figures to level 20.

Quote: defpally

I'm not sure where you are from, but I'm sure they have laws pertaining to obtaining items/money through deceptive methods. Besides the term "Return Fraud" does not necessarily mean "against the law". Again you are falling back on that "if I can get away with it that makes it ok".

I provided you with the list of NC larceny laws, and you can read about the laws pertaining to obtaining items/money through deceptive methods. Read the statutes and you will clearly see that the activity under discussion is not against any of these laws.

But now you just want to play semantics? If that's the case, according the article you cited, at best you can use the phrase "return abuse" or "friendly fraud."

My entire point about libel was that no one can accurately claim what I'm doing is illegal/criminal/breaking the law and I have demonstrated that with evidence (NC penal code). If you don't like it, contact Target or your congressmen. But you don't need to tell me ten times that you find it morally reprehensible.

Quote: UncleBob

Quote: Tigorus

Ummmmm what? Every Skylander since SSA has had an additional move unlocked by obtaining their Soul Gem. [...]Has the system of "buy another Skylander to fully use the one you already bought" ever been the case?

Just because it's been that way in previous games, does not mean Activision has any obligation to keep it that way. Mewtwo. was a free unlockable character in previous Smash games - now, he isn't. Same with Lucas.
Just because your parents used to let you drive their car, it doesn't mean you can just take off with it at the age of 40.

The claim is "The package doesn't state you need to buy more figures to access this feature!"

Well, the package doesn't state the figure has that feature.

And *this* has been the practice since the second entry in the series. None of my SSA figures said I had to buy an entire second game to "fully upgrade" my figures to level 20.

O.k. well Mewtwo was free if you signed up for him until recently. Source: http://www.ign.com/articles/20...and-dated?watch

Not gonna touch the car analogy.

In the example of Giants I could have one Skylander of each element form SSA and or Giants and one Giant (which it came with) and unlock all the elemental gates in the core game. Your example is ridiculous and you know it. It also doesn't say your Skylander does anything but there's a safe assumption that it will perform in a consistent manner to what we've experienced in the past since it is a sequel. There are millions of things that aren't on the package so let's not go there. It does mention that you will need to make a separate purchase for traps to play as villains...that seems fairly self evident to me since there isn't a trap packaged with the fig. Yet Activision feels the need to point that out while excluding the fact certain aspects of the figure you are purchasing are lock behind another. That feels wrong to me...and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Mewtwo is free if you purchased two versions of the game and registered. I didn't have to buy a portable Smash Bros. to unlock him before. Unfair! Strike! Lawsuit!

Quote:

There are millions of things that aren't on the package so let's not go there.

Good advice. I suggest you discuss it with the individual who tried to use that excuse to begin with. Anyone seen that guy 'round these parts?

Quote: UncleBob

Mewtwo is free if you purchased two versions of the game and registered. I didn't have to buy a portable Smash Bros. to unlock him before. Unfair! Strike! Lawsuit!

Quote:

There are millions of things that aren't on the package so let's not go there.

Good advice. I suggest you discuss it with the individual who tried to use that excuse to begin with. Anyone seen that guy 'round these parts?

lol what the hell are we even talking about any more.../facepalm.

Just for the sake of closure, where do you personally sit with Soul Gems being locked behind additional purchases? You can't be o.k. with it. Now I know your collection is vast and I personally have like 150 opened Skylanders and have purchased every adventure and battle pack released so buying and keeping the figures isn't an issue for me. It's more of a fundamental thing for me in that I feel it's pretty underhanded on Activision's part.

It doesn't bother me. Many games have additional powerd for characters being locked behind Paywalls (look at all the weapons and powerrups in Hyrule Warriors locked behind DLC /amiibo).

My view point is if I don't like something, I won't support it. Period.
My view point is that two wrongs don't make a right. Learned that when I was a wee laddie.
My view point is that I cannot define your morals. You cannot define your morals. Your morals are defined by the actions you take.

Quote: UncleBob

It doesn't bother me. Many games have additional powerd for characters being locked behind Paywalls (look at all the weapons and powerrups in Hyrule Warriors locked behind DLC /amiibo).

My view point is if I don't like something, I won't support it. Period.
My view point is that two wrongs don't make a right. Learned that when I was a wee laddie.
My view point is that I cannot define your morals. You cannot define your morals. Your morals are defined by the actions you take.

And yet morality is still one of those 'Eye of the Beholder" things...but I get your point.

I get additional powers unlocked from other DLC/Add-ons but those are additional abilities. A Soul Gem is part of a Skylander's core abilities and kind of a unique feature. I will personally never be o.k. with core mechanics behind pay-walls and frankly neither should anyone else, but to each their own.

Who gets to determine what a "core ability" is and please define "core ability" to me.

Quote: UncleBob

Who gets to determine what a "core ability" is and please define "core ability" to me.

A core ability would be in a characters default bag of tricks. Think of it as their vanilla arsenal. Every Skylander has it's basic abilities, path abilities and a Soul Gem ability as a Series 1 Skylander. Wow Pows would be considered additional or expansion abilities. I would consider any ability accessible in a Skylander's Series 1 ability list to be it's core abilities. I think most of us would be o.k. with that explanation.

Quote: Slamzilla

Also it's not just hats behind gates... Spotlight's Soul gem is behind a light elemental gate.

.........

I'm not sure I agree with that.

Someone remind me where Wind Up and Pop Thorn's Soul Gems were.

Quote: UncleBob

I'm not sure I agree with that.

Someone remind me where Wind Up and Pop Thorn's Soul Gems were.

Agree with my definition? How else would you define it? A Soul Gem ability is something EVERY skylander has.

Regarding Wind Up and Pop Thorn's Soul Gem I don't see your point. Their Soul Gems are in the core game. Once you purchase them you have access to the Soul Gem, no additional purchase required.

Whoops. For some reason, I was thinking their soul gems were in the expansion packs. :D

Every Skylander has the ability to switch paths, but it's locked out for any Series 1/Lightcore figures. Would you consider path switching a basic ability?

Quote: UncleBob

Whoops. For some reason, I was thinking their soul gems were in the expansion packs.

Every Skylander has the ability to switch paths, but it's locked out for any Series 1/Lightcore figures. Would you consider path switching a basic ability?

No, and here's why. While I would love the ability to switch paths on all series 1 Skylanders, it has always been a perk for series 2 and above Skylanders along with their Wow Pow. It's never been a feature for a series 1 Skylander so it's not what I would consider a basic ability. Just like you've always (in previous installments) been able to unlock a Skylanders Soul Gem once you posses said figure. I know what you were thinking with the Adventure Pack Soul gems and to that point, back in the day when you purchased an SSA Adventure pack with a Skylander and a level it's Soul Gem was in the level. So the Adventure Pack gave you what you needed to unlock the Soul Gem. If you owned the Skylander you owned the level in which it's Soul Gem was located.

So we can agree, just because a figure *can* do it, doesn't mean it's a basic feature?

Quote: UncleBob

So we can agree, just because a figure *can* do it, doesn't mean it's a basic feature?

Correct...I think. That being said I do believe that Soul Gem abilities are in the basic/stock/entry level/vanilla/series 1/core ability crowd. I should be able to unlock it when I get the figure and only that figure.

Hell maybe that could be an interesting system in and of itself. The game file hides the Soul Gem until you scan the toy in. Then it places it in a level. The game would give you a hint similar to the wanted poster for villains. That could/should make everyone happy. Although that would kill my other suggestion of unlocking a demo version of a Skylander by obtaining it's Soul Gem.

I'd rather have the demo and having them go back to the SSA principal of Adventure Pack Skylanders having their Soul Gems in their Adventure Pack levels and everyone else in the Core game.

Sorry I got bored reading a lot of the legal comments here. So in the end we all agree that Activision are bad trying to pull a swifty making people purchase extra toys and anyone smart enough to return figures after opening the gates are the good guys. Have I followed that correctly?

I would think that Activision would rather me purchase their starter pack and a handful of other characters that I really like - like Enigma, EE Stealth Elf etc - than not buy anything off them at all. At a guess I doubt they would care too much if I bought a Skylander, put it on the portal to open one of their stinking, sneaky gates and then returned it having only had it on the portal for a few moments.

Still making between $100 and $200 out of me. Surely that's better than $0?

If they didn't care *how* you opened the gates, then they could have kept them so that any elemental character could unlock them, n'est-ce pas?

By continuing to support the game, you're telling Activision "I'm okay with this, please take my money." - and they'll continue to do the same things they've always done.

Quote: UncleBob

Where on Spotlight or Blackout's package does it say the figure has the move unlocked by the soul gem?

Swap Force did not hide Soul Gems in the Adventure Packs. Still, content you could not play WAS locked in those packs - bonus missions, solo survival maps, etc. But nothing that would restrict another purchase. In my opinion, Trap Team set a bad precedent doing that, which is encouraging some of this stuff...but I'm old school. What's right is right and what's wrong is wrong.

If I feel strongly against what the Big Corporation is doing, my best message is to close my wallet.

Quote: UncleBob

If they didn't care *how* you opened the gates, then they could have kept them so that any elemental character could unlock them, n'est-ce pas?

By continuing to support the game, you're telling Activision "I'm okay with this, please take my money." - and they'll continue to do the same things they've always done.

I am ok with it. What's the alternative - to not buy any further games and then have 200 Skylanders to only use in SSA, SG, SSF & STT? No I want more content for my existing investment, so they can keep taking my money. Some of it at least.

You know, you could just buy the new game and not worry about the new figures at all.

Yep, and although I love VV, it's time to say something this go round. People will say your stand means nothing etc. I guess if we listened to them then US would still be under British rule now huh?

They are literally going to have to have a grand slam with it all for me to be "all in". Just the starter sounds like a refreshing change to me.

Quote: UncleBob

You know, you could just buy the new game and not worry about the new figures at all.

Just like they could stop locking content behind more pay walls than there already are....There's a lot of coulds and shoulds but it all comes down to our individual breaking points. My fear is that they ultimately don't care about making the franchise vets. happy anymore. Which is weird to say considering that older Skylanders work in newer games, but to what end. I'd like to see a benefit in game for owning the older generations. I still plan on making new purchases for whatever release block we're in but it would be nice to be rewarded for my multi-thousand dollar investment in this franchise beyond simply allowing me to play with older figures. Plus incentivizing older purchases would help out retailers as well by clearing out older figures.

Quote: CountMoneyBone

Quote: procrstntngdrgn

This isnt cheating anyone. The toy is unopened. It will sell to someone else who wont even know it was a return. This is not a big deal at all people

exactly.

Umm...it is hurting the next kid who purchases the toy thinking it is new. The figure will not register automatically in the game since the ownership was initially logged with the first chump who put it on his/her portal. Obviously, us adults know we can simply take ownership of the character and reset it...no harm, no foul...but what about the young kid who doesn't know how to reset a character or take ownership??? He'll miss out on the elemental bonus and will never have the character show up on his collection screen. You people who seem to be ok with testing out or trying a character and returning for a full refund don't seem to understand this and have probably never played the Skylanders game with somebody in the 4-6 age group. Imagine if movies and video games could be viewed without opening the package...the video game and movie industry would go out of business....but according to some of you guys, it's perfectly fine to use for a test run and return since the packaging and it's contents inside haven't been physically touched. I for one, don't ever want to purchase a new Skylander only to get home and see it's already got some upgrades and money on it. Once Enigma comes out, I'll play with it for a week and sell it to one of you guys still in pristine packaging for $14.99...any takers???? I didn't think so.

Quote: Tigorus

Quote: UncleBob

You know, you could just buy the new game and not worry about the new figures at all.

Just like they could stop locking content behind more pay walls than there already are....There's a lot of coulds and shoulds but it all comes down to our individual breaking points. My fear is that they ultimately don't care about making the franchise vets. happy anymore. Which is weird to say considering that older Skylanders work in newer games, but to what end. I'd like to see a benefit in game for owning the older generations. I still plan on making new purchases for whatever release block we're in but it would be nice to be rewarded for my multi-thousand dollar investment in this franchise beyond simply allowing me to play with older figures. Plus incentivizing older purchases would help out retailers as well by clearing out older figures.

Yeah, they keep iterating how it's cute we've kept going, but their target market is their target market. Might have to leave and see how miuch of their target market sustains them in order for them to pay homage to the Skyvets. Definitely agreed that having things both in content and stat system that can keep people going/wanting to go beyond the story and beyond the game would be appreciated, but after seeing 2 or 3 mainstay "after the main course" elements eliminated (heroics, quests, PvP, etc) I leave little hope that our dream will come true.

Quote: mastermc54

Quote: CountMoneyBone

Quote: procrstntngdrgn

This isnt cheating anyone. The toy is unopened. It will sell to someone else who wont even know it was a return. This is not a big deal at all people

exactly.

Umm...it is hurting the next kid who purchases the toy thinking it is new. The figure will not register automatically in the game since the ownership was initially logged with the first chump who put it on his/her portal. Obviously, us adults know we can simply take ownership of the character and reset it...no harm, no foul...but what about the young kid who doesn't know how to reset a character or take ownership??? He'll miss out on the elemental bonus and will never have the character show up on his collection screen. You people who seem to be ok with testing out or trying a character and returning for a full refund don't seem to understand this and have probably never played the Skylanders game with somebody in the 4-6 age group. Imagine if movies and video games could be viewed without opening the package...the video game and movie industry would go out of business....but according to some of you guys, it's perfectly fine to use for a test run and return since the packaging and it's contents inside haven't been physically touched. I for one, don't ever want to purchase a new Skylander only to get home and see it's already got some upgrades and money on it. Once Enigma comes out, I'll play with it for a week and sell it to one of you guys still in pristine packaging for $14.99...any takers???? I didn't think so.

/sigh

I have tried and returned figures that have been reset with out fail every time. Granted it's only happened like 6 times but it is part of their business model. Otherwise they wouldn't be playable in the package now would they? Also I don't think too many 4-6 year olds care about the small bump in elemental power so let's not be overly dramatic. I have also purchased figures that already had progress on them and I assure the world didn't end. I simply reset it and went on about my business. The return all comes down to most retail establishments have a satisfaction guarantee. If I'm not satisfied, I bring it back and I'll receive a full refund. Now a lot of these places even cover food with this policy. Now let me ask you where they stand with that returned box of burnt cheese-its. They are ass-out and can only r.t.v. (return to vendor) for a credit or partial credit. They are out nothing with a returned, unopened and reset Skylander. If your not happy with your purchase and it's in salable condition there are usually no issues with it being returned. How can I know if I'm satisfied with my purchase until I try it? Are you suggesting that I should hope for the best and feel stuck with my purchase even if I don't like it? Do you think this franchise is where it is because it's a home run with everyone who tries it? Now with DLC all digital purchases are final. However these are toys with magic inside (as they keep pointing out that Skylanders is the #1 figure line) and unopened toys are returnable...end of story.

I get people not wanting their new character being "used", and I get people ok with it. Neither way is right or wrong, the conversation was about intent and purpose. If the purpose is to with intent buy a character knowing you will return it, some of us have a problem with it being return fraud. If you're legitimately not satisfied and the store has a fair return policy that you don't abuse then by all means take advantage of it.

That about sums it up.

Quote: GhostRoaster

I get people not wanting their new character being "used", and I get people ok with it. Neither way is right or wrong, the conversation was about intent and purpose. If the purpose is to with intent buy a character knowing you will return it, some of us have a problem with it being return fraud. If you're legitimately not satisfied and the store has a fair return policy that you don't abuse then by all means take advantage of it.

That about sums it up.

Pretty much. I've never purchased a Skylander with the intent to return it from the get go. Now that you mention it I should have read that first post a little more closely...plus when I finally made it in here it was a total Philosophical debate about returning tried Skylanders in any shape or form. It's so bizarre because these types of threads usually stay on track.... .

Quote: Tigorus

Quote: UncleBob

You know, you could just buy the new game and not worry about the new figures at all.

Just like they could stop locking content behind more pay walls than there already are....There's a lot of coulds and shoulds but it all comes down to our individual breaking points. My fear is that they ultimately don't care about making the franchise vets. happy anymore. Which is weird to say considering that older Skylanders work in newer games, but to what end. I'd like to see a benefit in game for owning the older generations. I still plan on making new purchases for whatever release block we're in but it would be nice to be rewarded for my multi-thousand dollar investment in this franchise beyond simply allowing me to play with older figures. Plus incentivizing older purchases would help out retailers as well by clearing out older figures.

Wait. Did you really just say, in the same post, that they should stop "locking content" behind "pay walls" (what I assume you mean purchasing figures), then go on to say how they should lock more content behind more figures, but that it's okay just because *you*, personally, already have the older figures - but everyone else would then have to buy both the older and newer figures? That seems fair.

Quote: UncleBob

Quote: Tigorus

Quote: UncleBob

You know, you could just buy the new game and not worry about the new figures at all.

Just like they could stop locking content behind more pay walls than there already are....There's a lot of coulds and shoulds but it all comes down to our individual breaking points. My fear is that they ultimately don't care about making the franchise vets. happy anymore. Which is weird to say considering that older Skylanders work in newer games, but to what end. I'd like to see a benefit in game for owning the older generations. I still plan on making new purchases for whatever release block we're in but it would be nice to be rewarded for my multi-thousand dollar investment in this franchise beyond simply allowing me to play with older figures. Plus incentivizing older purchases would help out retailers as well by clearing out older figures.

Wait. Did you really just say, in the same post, that they should stop "locking content" behind "pay walls" (what I assume you mean purchasing figures), then go on to say how they should lock more content behind more figures, but that it's okay just because *you*, personally, already have the older figures - but everyone else would then have to buy both the older and newer figures? That seems fair.

I took that to mean a boost for the older figures rather than content being locked that only older figures could open.

Quote: Slamzilla

My entire point about libel was that no one can accurately claim what I'm doing is illegal/criminal/breaking the law and I have demonstrated that with evidence (NC penal code). If you don't like it, contact Target or your congressmen. But you don't need to tell me ten times that you find it morally reprehensible.

I never said you were breaking the law, I said you were committing return fraud. Whether that is against the law depends on your state. I don't have to call Target, because what you are doing would pretty much get you banned from their store if you told them what you are up to - it isn't something they would need to be convinced. And in NC the legislature is filled with right wingers, I'm half surprised that one Art Pope's cronies doesn't have a bill in the works to allow stores to come to your house and literally beat you to a pulp for doing it after some of the other crazy stuff they have introduced.

And you don't need to tell me ten times it is all cool because you can get away with it. I told you that it's cool if you are fine with being dishonest. You aren't a clever, savvy consumer nor are you master criminal, you are just a garden variety cheapskate that wants something for nothing. My main beef is you bragging about it, particularly on a forum frequented by minors. If anything comes of this, I'd hope they learn that it isn't something to be proud of at all.

GhostRoaster is right, the way to send a message about costs it to buy just the game and no figures, or nothing at all. This business model has been going on for four years now.

You get that now with the elemental bonus.

I don't think a mere boost for older figures is going to go very far to "help out retailers as well by clearing out older figures"

Quote: UncleBob

Quote: Tigorus

Quote: UncleBob

You know, you could just buy the new game and not worry about the new figures at all.

Just like they could stop locking content behind more pay walls than there already are....There's a lot of coulds and shoulds but it all comes down to our individual breaking points. My fear is that they ultimately don't care about making the franchise vets. happy anymore. Which is weird to say considering that older Skylanders work in newer games, but to what end. I'd like to see a benefit in game for owning the older generations. I still plan on making new purchases for whatever release block we're in but it would be nice to be rewarded for my multi-thousand dollar investment in this franchise beyond simply allowing me to play with older figures. Plus incentivizing older purchases would help out retailers as well by clearing out older figures.

Wait. Did you really just say, in the same post, that they should stop "locking content" behind "pay walls" (what I assume you mean purchasing figures), then go on to say how they should lock more content behind more figures, but that it's okay just because *you*, personally, already have the older figures - but everyone else would then have to buy both the older and newer figures? That seems fair.

"You're killing me Smalls!!!"

lol how did you get that out of what I said? I made two separate points. Point #1 is that they need to stop requiring an additional purchase on figures that I've already purchased just to unlock their basic/core ability roster (please don't make me go over that again). Point #2 was wanting them to provide some kind of in game benefit for older figures I've already purchased. Like a "Hey you've supported us quite heavily over the years since launch...here's a little nod of appreciation in the form of stats, maybe some hats, heroics, arenas, etc. and whatever". It wouldn't be something you'd feel you have to do but if you wanted to hunt down the older content you'd be rewarded for it. Just a simple "thanks" in-game. Hell I'd settle for the ability to have elemental games or Giant chests, feats of Strength, Swap Zones...something...ANYTHING to add some longevity out of my vast collection of older landers. Also I'm not the only one who's been here since the beginning. This would benefit more than just myself. Here's small example:

In World of Warcraft they have a pet battle system (think Pokemon without evolution). They have these milestone achievements that award you a special pet at certain milestone. At 25 pets you get a squirrel, at 50 a skunk, 75 a fawn, etc.

It's not anything that's going to break the game but it's rewarding you for your collection and effort.

Oh, I get it, all right.

You're complaining about them locking more content behind the requirement of purchasing additional figures.

and

You're saying that they should lock more content behind the requirement of purchasing additional figures, but the ones that you already own, so it's okay.

It makes total sense.