darkSpyro

I was just wondering how widespread this practice is amongst portal masters?

I purchased Blastermind to test him out, not very cool. So now I'm gonna open the magic gates and return him to the store without opening the package. Unfortunately looks like i can't find a standard Krypt King (who I'd actually like to keep), so i guess i might have to do the same with Short Cut. Just found a single of Knight Light, so same there. Really enjoying Thunderbolt though, I opened and am now keeping him because he's a beast!

Most of the trap masters i'm not very into, although i do like a few of the new core landers. It's a darn shame they had make the elemental gates accessible only via trap masters. I don't want any trap masters from life, earth, tech, fire or dark elements.

It's annoying too because I actually shelled out money to get all 8 swap force types and now they don't do me any good.

Wish I could do that. I like a lot of Trap Masters of the same element while some I don't like either. But since TT won't be released in my country, the only ones you can find are all final purchases and too expensive since they're imported. On previous games I just have enough of every element I like so it's not an issue, but I already spent far too much just for my two lone trap masters.
Then again,even for the previous games, used figures show up once in a blue moon also being final purchases, and the stores with new ones don't allow returns,only trades(also take way too much time to even allow such trades so it'd never be worth it).

I personally go with a figure for every character each year, no matter what, because I love trying out all the different playstyles, and no Skylanders has disappointed me to the point of thinking he wasn't worth the purchase, so far.

I honestly never bought a figure because it unlocked something, but could very easily see how it would be a pain, for someone who can't/doesn't want to buy some of them.

I was going to buy one trap master per element, but then I changed my mind. I don't care if I miss out on a few hats. I bought Wild Fire and Jawbreaker when the game first came out, but I now plan to trade them in because I don't really like them. The only Trap Masters I'm keeping are Snap Shot, Gusto, Knight Light, Knight Mare and I plan to buy Enigma when he comes out.

Practice of using the character to further your game file and then return it? Sounds morally ambiguous to me.

Quote: GhostRoaster

Practice of using the character to further your game file and then return it? Sounds morally ambiguous to me.

That depends.The figure isn't getting damaged by opening gates - at the most the next buyer has to reset ownership, and if it's preowned it's a no-brainer that it'll be needed. I would go for preowned always if I could actually do that,though. From the store it'd be like reading an entire book while you're still at the bookstore - yes no one is going to lose significant amount of money from that but it's still dishonest if the place is nice enough to let you do that.

Morally ambiguous? I don't think so. Pretty sure they would change the packaging to prevent playing without opening if it were a problem.

Since the first Skylanders game, I've invested quite a bit of money in my skylanders collection. As I mentioned earlier I even purchased all 8 swap force to unlock all the gates. But I'm not purchasing 7 trap masters (for all of the elements buy water), 2 element expansions, and 2 levels, in addition to 7 traps. This game here requires far more purchases than any of the previous titles to get 100%

I wish they could have made this game like Giants...where you didn't 8 new special types or new portal and was basically just a sequel to the first game.

Wow thats just so SAD . All this just to unlock some goofy ingame content ? The 6 yr old Portal Master community applaud your " heroics "

Not everyone has a ton of money to spare. Again, if it's preowned and you can sell it again, you're not doing anything wrong, you're passing it foward to someone who actually wants it.

Quote: Bifrost

Quote: GhostRoaster

Practice of using the character to further your game file and then return it? Sounds morally ambiguous to me.

That depends.The figure isn't getting damaged by opening gates - at the most the next buyer has to reset ownership, and if it's preowned it's a no-brainer that it'll be needed. I would go for preowned always if I could actually do that,though. From the store it'd be like reading an entire book while you're still at the bookstore - yes no one is going to lose significant amount of money from that but it's still dishonest if the place is nice enough to let you do that.

Ambiguous by definition is a grey matter. You can find brand new/open for half price easy on eBay. For me personally I wouldn't use a character in any capacity and return it. It's like testing new underwear and deciding it isn't working out. YMMV. Not here to preach. And since he asked about the practice and ASKED for my opinion, I gave it.

It is nothing like underwear. Come on now.

yea im not 100% on this ether, just seems...wrong. But to each there own. This is just something i wouldnt do, mainly because i want to collect them all. I agree blastermind is not the best ( for me he is one of my least favorites) but i bought him anyways for the gates and my collection. But thats my rule, get what i need to 100% the game first then collect 1 of each when i get more money.

Yeah I'm never disappointed with any skylander, I love them all eventually. They are all amazing, and once you play with any character for a while you feel like they are completely over powered.

But I'm a huge replayer of the games after a year or 2.

don't you want replay the game again in the future and be able to unlock everything again? They are great for replaying after a while and that's when you get your money's worth for all the charscters you bought. They arnt really supposed to be the type of game you just complete once then never play again.

Quote: GhostRoaster

Practice of using the character to further your game file and then return it? Sounds morally ambiguous to me.

more than acti's milking your pocket with cheap gimmicks?

Vast majority of people who go through the process of spending money on Skylanders actually enjoy what Activision is offering.

Quote: Slamzilla

Morally ambiguous? I don't think so. Pretty sure they would change the packaging to prevent playing without opening if it were a problem.

They do that so kids can place it on the portal in the store and get a demonstration, not so some joker can buy and return figures to game the system. They wouldn't lock it at all if they didn't want you to buy the figures. They don't have a package that prevents this (like Amiibos) because they want kids to pick them up and see them "come to life" in the store.

By the way, I hope you aren't doing this at TRU (or some other linked stores), because frequent buy/returns like that will get you banned from ALL returns at every store that is using the return verification service. TRU put this service into action last Summer/Fall, there was a big discussion of it on a thread a while back. Several other stores also use it.

If you don't want to buy the figure, either skip the content or get some friends and you can open each other's content. Abusing a return policy isn't acceptable.

^ Excellent point. Returns = risk.

Quote: wild_defender

don't you want replay the game again in the future and be able to unlock everything again? They are great for replaying after a while and that's when you get your money's worth for all the charscters you bought. They arnt really supposed to be the type of game you just complete once then never play again.

It's the reason why I keep the SSA location pieces. It isn't to strut my stuff by showing everyone my magic collection is complete. I want to play those levels again in a new save file.

Wow, interesting responses.

I'll keep my comments brief by noting that returns in package are accepted as a matter of store policy. Because walmart/target know they are getting business high volume return business, they have liberal return policies. So I'm just a savvy consumer.

Quote: Slamzilla

Wow, interesting responses.

I'll keep my comments brief by noting that returns in package are accepted as a matter of store policy. Because walmart/target know they are getting business high volume return business, they have liberal return policies. So I'm just a savvy consumer.

That's an interesting way of saying it. Getting something for nothing? Being cheap? That sounds more appropriate. I won't cry a tear that Activision didn't get their $14.99, though.

Living in a country where being hopelessly cheap is called part of our "culture", overusing the return policy doesn't sound like much. That's not to say it's unforgivable or not, I don't really know what's behing returns and how much of a hassle it truly causes - outside it just feels like just wasting someone's time rather than money(not bringing up the proverb, I mean more that switching out figures isn't doing a hole in someone's salary).

Quote: Slamzilla

Wow, interesting responses.

I'll keep my comments brief by noting that returns in package are accepted as a matter of store policy. Because walmart/target know they are getting business high volume return business, they have liberal return policies. So I'm just a savvy consumer.

And when you get banned for returns you will be just plain out of luck. A matter of store policy also allows them to refuse returns - it is in the fine print, check it out next time - you know, that big wall of text most stores have posted. What you are doing isn't "savvy" or clever, it's just straight up conning the store by abusing a return policy. People have been doing that for years, like buying a dress or shoes to wear for one occasion or something else.

It's also why return policies get more and more restrictive and they implement services that track return patterns and ban abusive returns. Gamestop used to have a policy a long time ago where you could return opened games you didn't like, but then people started using them as a free rental service and now you can't do that. Buy a game that stinks and you are stuck with it. I don't like return policy abuse because it ends up hurting us all, even the people that aren't trying to get stuff for free - because then we are all limited by new restrictions on returns.

I've been promoting the buy-use to open-return strategy for a while now. I own about 200 Skylanders from across the 4 games as I'm sure many of you do. Activision have a fair chunk of money from me, so I had no trouble not purchasing and keeping their overpriced toys this time around. I will probably buy a few of them when they start selling them cheap later in the year.

As for the morality of such a practice, well I personally don't find it as morally questionable as Activision selling a kids game with a percentage of content locked that can only be opened by spending an additional $14.99.

I also doubt that the practice is wide spread enough to have an impact on the return policies of the major stores.

This topic comes up every so often.

Let me say this - what you are doing *IS* illegal and is the clear definition of return fraud - buying a product with the intent of using it for the intended purpose, using it, then returning it for a full refund.

Will you ever get caught and have charges brought against you? 99.99999999999999999999999999999999% chance, no. "Getting Caught" isn't the same as being illegal though.

Morally wrong? That's up to the individual. That's the thing about morals - no one can tell you what your morals are. They're defined by what you do.

Ultimately, you can keep doing what you're doing, I'll keep doing what I'm doing. Just remember, when someone cheats you over later down the road... well, Karma is a *****.

But what about getting preowned products,just using them for gates and stuff, then selling them again probably at the same site and similar price? Keep in mind game retail stores that have any sort of organized section for used products are nearly nonexistent in Brazil(and charge 90% of the retail price even if it's used because of reasons). Would that be immoral? When I meant to be passing the figures foward I meant that,were they not so costly around here.

This isnt cheating anyone. The toy is unopened. It will sell to someone else who wont even know it was a return. This is not a big deal at all people

Ok, let me say what I think about the "moral".
It would be immoral if he sistematically returned every single character, after unlocking the Gates.

It isn't, in my opinion, in this case, because he specified that he played with Blastermind, before returning it, and I assume he plays with a Skylander long enough to understand if he likes it or no.
And if he doesn't, he has the right to return it.

I would never do it, but it's a personal thing.

Guys, stop it with the justifying it. If you do it, you probably aren't going to get caught. But, you aren't hurting Activision (at least not directly), you are hurting the store. And the store turns around and restricts the return policy for EVERYONE if it is being abused. They also aren't selling as many figures, which results in harm to the franchise. Justifying it because "you have already paid a lot of money" is nonsense too. If you don't want to pay the price the stores are charging for the content, then go without - you don't get to just take it and say it is ok because you have decided the price to unlock all of the content is too high. These are toys for videogames, not necessities for living. I don't like greedy corporations either, but I'm not going to start stealing from them to make my point.

Activision will hear you much louder if you say "I've lost interest in your game because of the cost" than "I want your game bad enough to scam a store for parts of it".

If you want to use return fraud to unlock stuff in a game, go for it - you will almost certainly not face anything worse than a possible return ban at a store. But don't act like what you are doing isn't wrong.

^ Bingo. Let your wallets speak. I've talked a good game for a while, haven't pulled the trigger....yet.

Quote: procrstntngdrgn

This isnt cheating anyone. The toy is
unopened. It will sell to someone else who wont even know it was a return. This is not a big deal at all people

The store gets robbed of it's sale, as does Activision. The resale of the item may vary from days to weeks to never. The real purchaser of this toy will likely know it's been used, and may return it. The store in turn will lose another sale or a unit labeled "defective" and in turn Activision may have to refund the retailer. So, the actual outcome isn't clearly no harm and likely not my apocalyptic vision, but it's not a victimless act.

But looking the other way because "it's no big deal at all". Sounds like rationalization to me.

The only Trap Masters I've kept so far are Dark Snap Shot, Gearshift, Legendary Bushwhack, Tuff Luck, and Nitro Krypt King. As soon as Enigma comes out, I'll be keeping him, too.

I think that Activision should change to a packaging that does block the use of the character. They could use a second chip on the bottom of the package for the in-store display to read. Because the second chip would not need to be as large, as it only needs identification data and not the extra space for levels etc, they are not expensive. They use them in warehouses and shipping labels. So I don't see the cost increase compared to the benefits being an issue. And I feel this may cause people to actually buy more toys. They want to try the character, and have to open the figure to try it. Make them all in the Trap Master style packs instead of a paperboard back and this problem is completely gone.

I keep all the Skylanders I buy...I love seeing them in my inventory/collection in subsequent games. I'll gaze upon them with fond memories one day when they are a distant memory of the past.

I have on occasion returned and rebought characters when on sale, but I'm definitely against using a Skylander to unlock a gate or register them into the game and then returning it. Somebody else will get a used figure and it won't automatically register into their collection in their game...they will have to go out of their way to take ownership of the character...and I know plenty of young kids who play the game and don't know how to do that...they'll miss out on the elemental boost as well. All in all, it's poor form and a very bad practice to buy and return after using the figure in game.

Ehhh I usually try Skylanders in their package and return them if I don't like them. I see it as part of their own system. It's a "try after you buy and return if you don't like" kind of thing. With the cost of this franchise I don't feel a bit guilty. Iv'e never returned anything I've opened though. It also takes a lot of the risk out of buying something that you're unsure will work out. Again the option to try after you buy is part of their (Activision's) buying system so no harm, no foul.

In regards to the buying and returning a Trap Master just to open a gate...I'd never do it. Not for moral reasons though. I want to have access to everything when I do play-thrus. That being said I pretty much only own one Trap Team per element (except life because I liked both) just so I can open any gate I find. I think it was totally crappy that you can only open ANY and ALL of the new gate with the new gimmick figures. This is a franchise first. I also wasn't aware of this before I purchased the software. locking all the new content behind the new gimmick pay way is total bad hat.

Quote: defpally

Guys, stop it with the justifying it. If you do it, you probably aren't going to get caught. But, you aren't hurting Activision (at least not directly), you are hurting the store. And the store turns around and restricts the return policy for EVERYONE if it is being abused. They also aren't selling as many figures, which results in harm to the franchise. Justifying it because "you have already paid a lot of money" is nonsense too. If you don't want to pay the price the stores are charging for the content, then go without - you don't get to just take it and say it is ok because you have decided the price to unlock all of the content is too high. These are toys for videogames, not necessities for living. I don't like greedy corporations either, but I'm not going to start stealing from them to make my point.

Activision will hear you much louder if you say "I've lost interest in your game because of the cost" than "I want your game bad enough to scam a store for parts of it".

If you want to use return fraud to unlock stuff in a game, go for it - you will almost certainly not face anything worse than a possible return ban at a store. But don't act like what you are doing isn't wrong.

I'm not trying to justify anything.

Would it be better if we talked about Skylanders in general, and not only about Trap Masters?

In my point of view, it is a customer's right to return something he doesn't want.
Of course, it shouldn't be abused, but that goes without saying, and this doesn't seem to be the case.

Again, I would never do it, but if it doesn't get out of hand, I doubt it would become something this serious.

And, frankly, I don't think it's about the price either.
He never said he didn't liked the game, or lost interest in it, he simply doesn't want some characters that disappointed him.
If he never bought them, he would have never known if he liked them or not.

Ghostroaster, that is the craziest thing i've ever heard. Thanks for the entertainment.

Several times, I've purchased a figure thinking to myself "it would be very easy to just return this if we don't like it." Especially because I keep as many cores as possible in the package; protection, looks cool, acoustics when they think we're asleep and start in on a nice sea shanty, etc. Yet we either end up keeping them to complete the collection, or give them away.

While Trap Team is definitely a more obvious cash-grab this time around, I don't feel compelled to own more than one Trap Master of each element except for water and air (Snap, Lob, Gusto, and Thundershanks are all excellent), or more than one trap per element (except Broccoli Guy and Wolfgang get their own permanent traps at my house), or to even purchase a single mini (we already had sidekicks). Those freaking Swappers were just so very compelling, with the different combos and that infernal 256 combo grid screen that we just HAD to see completed... My gang is definitely spending less money on Trap Team than Swap Force.

But yeah, buying a figure to unlock a gate and then returning it for a full refund is not good. If everyone did that, eventually there'd be no more Skylander games, right?

I don't think it would stop them making the game altogether. But it would change the way they package the toys I would suspect. So I personally think the rest of you should do the right thing and buy all the toys. Don't return any. Returning things is bad.

If Activision blocks the chips, there's a good chance I'm out.

Activision may not have forseen this development and, if it is becomes a problem, they'll make a change. And, it has every right to do it. No one is forced to purchase the game. I don't agree with rationalizing it by saying "I've spent enough money already or its just a money grab". Don't like it, don't purchase. I stopped buying Call of Duty because of the direction it took. Granted, my boycott hasn't changed anything, but I don't pirate it and try to rationalize it away because I don't like the game designer's practices.

I continue to be fascinated by the divergent responses here. I'm not sure how many are old enough to vote here, but I am realizing slowly that the Skylanders audience must contain a large Republican contingent. That's the only way I can explain so of the exceedingly pro-corporate responses. Others I think are just trolling.

Quote: UncleBob

If Activision blocks the chips, there's a good chance I'm out.

Really? So even needing to purchase an extra $200 worth of mercy to get 100% you remain committed but not if you have to open your purchases before playing? That doesn't sound reasonable.

Again, I am simply following the return policies of stores, with a receipt and within 30 days (30 because it's electronic). I can understand if you think I'm taking advantage of this policy, but to claim that it's "illegal" is just plain false and getting close to libel.

And I, my good portal masters, have not libeled anyone here even though I disagree with about half the posters here.

Quote: Slamzilla

I continue to be fascinated by the divergent responses here. I'm not sure how many are old enough to vote here, but I am realizing slowly that the Skylanders audience must contain a large Republican contingent. That's the only way I can explain so of the exceedingly pro-corporate responses. Others I think are just trolling.

I'll assure you I'm no Republican. I don't like big corporate at all, I rant as much as anyone about corporate greed. I'm just not pro-stealing.

Like I said, if you do not like a corporate practice, you don't do business with them. End of story. Taking what you want without paying isn't an effective or honest protest. You are not justified in taking something that does not belong to you because you feel the seller is over-valuing their item or being greedy. That is NOT a liberal principle. Dishonesty is not a facet of being liberal.

Just stop trying to wrap yourself up in the idea that what you are doing is noble. You are helping no one but yourself, and that is a perfect example of greed. Go ahead and keep doing it if you want, but just don't expect a pat on the back for it.

If we assume political positions based on what we think on a toy brand we're gonna have a baad time.
But return policies are far from familiar territory for me and I'll stay off the discussion, and just my two cents before that: I've pirated games from previous generations before and I'll probably do so again as new consoles appear, but it's not for some entitlement or right, I'm just cheap in that regard and it's just too easy with original game taxing being so ridiculous in here in comparison to the great number of stores selling pirated.. No political or moral orientation in specific. Trying to rationalize getting game content for free or really cheap or attempt to justify is just asking for a flamewar of gross proportions.

Quote: Slamzilla

Again, I am simply following the return policies of stores, with a receipt and within 30 days (30 because it's electronic). I can understand if you think I'm taking advantage of this policy, but to claim that it's "illegal" is just plain false and getting close to libel.

And I, my good portal masters, have not libeled anyone here even though I disagree with about half the posters here.

No, you aren't following the return policy. Try this next time you do your little thing if you think you are:

Ask for the store manager. Explain that you purchased the item and took it home and used it to unlock the content in your game and now want to return it for full value. See if that flies. If you have to leave out parts of what you are doing then chances are you aren't following their policy.

And libel? Really? Oh look, we have an Internet lawyer here! You apparently know as little about how libel works as you do about how honesty works. You aren't being libeled because you would have to indicate harm, which given you are anonymous there is none - hurt feelings don't count. Secondly, saying your are being dishonest and borderline committing return fraud isn't libel, because you are.

Here what going to happen now.

Now that developers most likely read this post. Next Skylanders will have lil plate not allowing to be used unless u open the package ;p just like Amiibos.

Quote: procrstntngdrgn

Ghostroaster, that is the craziest thing i've ever heard. Thanks for the entertainment.

Not crazy as all. My outcome is just as likely statstically speaking as yours. I would surely return a USED skylander when I bought a NEW one. You're the entertainer. And I'm cool with people returning skylanders they purchased as a mistake. In fact I have a skylander I need to return. But I haven't used it. And I don't do it on a regular basis. In fact, this is my first. My first would've been returning a defective skylander had I been smart enough to test it in store.

Quote: TTD

If this does become the norm Activision will probably just place a foil sticker under the figure in the packaging just like amiibo to prevent it.

If I were Activision and reading this, I'd say "Hey guys, we're moving along nicely. We don't need people to pull this kind of stuff and we need to preserve out sales. Foil sticker it is!" Savy consumer = foiled....get it! HAHAHAHAHAHA

Now I've never purchased a figure to unlock content and return it but there are larger issues to concern ourselves with if the figures are no longer playable in the package. In regards to the moral aspect of returning a Skylander you've tried at home, there are none. The ability to try it before opening it is park of the brands marketing. If you're not satisfied you can return it since most big box retailers have a "Satisfaction Guarantee" as part of the purchase and return policy. If they disallow the ability to play in the package, we're going to see a lot of returned merchandise that's been opened and won't look good on the shelf. This will only hurt retailers unless they change their return policy. If they do that it will hurt the brand so ultimately I don't see a change to either system.

The morality of buying a fig. to unlock and return sounds wrong, but is it? Nowhere on the box does it say "Additional Figure purchases REQUIRED to unlock parts of the game you already paid for". It also doesn't say that you're buying an incomplete game and will have additional content purchases to unlock "mystery portions" of the game. Where are those little disclaimers? Isn't that morally ambiguous? New parents/players don't have any idea what their getting into. Plus this was the first Skylanders that required the new gimmick to unlock any and all gates. That's never been a requirement and we've always been able to open some or all of the gates with previously purchased Skylanders. We should be buying the new Skylanders because their fun and because we want to play them not because they are a requirement to unlock content.

For me, at least, it's more important that I like the Skylander I purchased than using it to unlock content and return it but I can see the other side too. If they somehow added the ability to try a Skylander I didn't own in a training room or say the hub and not allowing the figure to be played int he package that would be better but it would kill their whole display model and enticing the customer to purchase after that oh so cool preview.

Quote: Drek95

I personally go with a figure for every character each year, no matter what, because I love trying out all the different playstyles, and no Skylanders has disappointed me to the point of thinking he wasn't worth the purchase, so far.

I honestly never bought a figure because it unlocked something, but could very easily see how it would be a pain, for someone who can't/doesn't want to buy some of them.

Same for me.

Quote: procrstntngdrgn

This isnt cheating anyone. The toy is unopened. It will sell to someone else who wont even know it was a return. This is not a big deal at all people

exactly.

Quote: defpally

Quote: Slamzilla

And libel? Really? Oh look, we have an Internet lawyer here! You apparently know as little about how libel works as you do about how honesty works. You aren't being libeled because you would have to indicate harm, which given you are anonymous there is none - hurt feelings don't count. Secondly, saying your are being dishonest and borderline committing return fraud isn't libel, because you are.

Lol, methinks someone had to look up the word libel. I'm not internet lawyer but I'm pretty sure claiming someone is breaking the law when they are not amounts to a false statement. Not return fraud.

to quote target's return policy:
"Most unopened items in new condition and returned within 90 days will receive a refund or exchange. Some items have a modified return policy noted on the receipt, Target policy board (refund exceptions), Target.com or in the item department. Items that are opened or damaged or do not have a receipt may be denied a refund or exchange."

and subsections relevant to this item:
"Open or defective collectibles (e.g., sports cards, special edition Barbie dolls, porcelain dolls, action figures and die-cast cars) cannot be returned."
"All Electronics and Entertainment items must be returned within 30 days for a refund or exchange. For these items purchased between 11/1 – 12/25, the 30-day refund period will start on 12/26."

I don't see how I can anymore plainly demonstrate that this is not illegal. If you don't like it that's one thing and you should write to Target and your congressmen to complain. But do not accuse me of doing anything illegal.

I haven't been name-calling, or impugning the integrity or intelligence of anyone on this forum. And yet, some of you, certainly defpally, are lobbing personal attacks by implying that I lack an understanding of a word I know (libel), a return policy I fully understand (as cited in Target's policy), honesty (I've never lied to a customer service rep at target), and also claiming that I'm greedy (I think accusation you should have made there is that I'm cheap or stingy, although I'd use the word frugal).

Surely this sort of immature and inane behavior has no place in world of adults. If you disagree with the practice, you can say so and you can say so respectfully. And then you can move on. I was very curious about this practice and wanted people's opinions. But you don't need to tell me five times that you think i'm dishonest, greedy, and going to destroy the future of skylands.

I usually get the first release of each element first and then nothing else, but in this case I will probably end up getting Enigma later on instead of just skipping him.