darkSpyro

Quote: I-Brawler

Quote: Mesuxelf

Lucina's counter (and others too, probably) can kill at 0 percent.

Marth's and Lucina's (and I think Ike's but I could be wrong) are as powerful as the attack they countered. Ike's Neutral B was near full charged and that does a heck ton of damage to anything.

But an instakill?

Would anyone like to smash? My Wii U thing is echoTriangle.

Who should I like better? Shulk or Mega Man?

Quote: WilltheWizard

Who should I like better? Shulk or Mega Man?

You can't say no to that face.

I feel like I'm the only person who actually plays w/ Meta Knight...

Quote: Mesuxelf

I feel like I'm the only person who actually plays w/ Meta Knight...

I guess he's really lost his luster to most people.

Quote: Mrmorrises

Quote: Mesuxelf

I feel like I'm the only person who actually plays w/ Meta Knight...

I guess he's really lost his luster to most people.

He's not bad, he's just not as good as in SSBB.

Quote: Mesuxelf

Quote: Mrmorrises

I guess he's really lost his luster to most people.

He's not bad, he's just not as good as in SSBB.

He's not bad, he's fine, but there is no way in hell that he is as good as he was in SSBB. His moves have more lag, and therefore are less spammable, his range on almost all of his attacks has been shortened and his aerials are much less reliable.

Quote: Mrmorrises

Quote: Mesuxelf

He's not bad, he's just not as good as in SSBB.

He's not bad, he's fine, but there is no way in hell that he is as good as he was in SSBB. His moves have more lag, and therefore are less spammable, his range on almost all of his attacks has been shortened and his aerials are much less reliable.

Plus his smashing capabilities are really bad. ...But then again, so are most supposed "high tiered characters." I just don't get how all the high tier characters are the ones with non-existant smashing capabilities. Speed and durability mean nothing if you can't kill your opponent, and on that note, most of them AREN'T durable.

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: Mrmorrises

He's not bad, he's fine, but there is no way in hell that he is as good as he was in SSBB. His moves have more lag, and therefore are less spammable, his range on almost all of his attacks has been shortened and his aerials are much less reliable.

Plus his smashing capabilities are really bad. ...But then again, so are most supposed "high tiered characters." I just don't get how all the high tier characters are the ones with non-existant smashing capabilities. Speed and durability mean nothing if you can't kill your opponent, and on that note, most of them AREN'T durable.

The top 4 based on tiering, Rosalina, Sheik, Diddy, and ZSS, are there because of their fast attacks and the ability to rack up damage well because of it, while taking little to none in return on more skilled players. (Though I think Rosalina is there because of basically a 2v1 scenario every match, rather than super fast attacks, like the other 3.) Strong Smash attack mean little to nothing at high percentages, as your opponent will be flying off much easier.

Yeah, but with no good smash attacks, they would have to rack up LOTS of damage in order to KO an opponent.

Quote:

Yeah, but with no good smash attacks, they would have to rack up LOTS of damage in order to KO an opponent.

Smash attacks are far from the only way to KO. For a lot of characters, it's not their best KO option.

Quote: I-Brawler

Quote: MugoUrth

Plus his smashing capabilities are really bad. ...But then again, so are most supposed "high tiered characters." I just don't get how all the high tier characters are the ones with non-existant smashing capabilities. Speed and durability mean nothing if you can't kill your opponent, and on that note, most of them AREN'T durable.

The top 4 based on tiering, Rosalina, Sheik, Diddy, and ZSS, are there because of their fast attacks and the ability to rack up damage well because of it, while taking little to none in return on more skilled players. (Though I think Rosalina is there because of basically a 2v1 scenario every match, rather than super fast attacks, like the other 3.) Strong Smash attack mean little to nothing at high percentages, as your opponent will be flying off much easier.

Yeah, but with no good smash attacks, they would have to rack up LOTS of damage in order to KO an opponent. A character like Bowser can KO something before it hits 100%, yet he's not considered that high tier just cause he can't combo? Plus, Shiek, Zero Suit Samus's and Diddy's attacks are pretty predictable and easy to counter. Even Bowser's attacks are less predictable.

I think it's just a case of speedtards thinking that speed is everything and as long as something's fast, it's automatically god tier.

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: I-Brawler

The top 4 based on tiering, Rosalina, Sheik, Diddy, and ZSS, are there because of their fast attacks and the ability to rack up damage well because of it, while taking little to none in return on more skilled players. (Though I think Rosalina is there because of basically a 2v1 scenario every match, rather than super fast attacks, like the other 3.) Strong Smash attack mean little to nothing at high percentages, as your opponent will be flying off much easier.

Yeah, but with no good smash attacks, they would have to rack up LOTS of damage in order to KO an opponent. A character like Bowser can KO something before it hits 100%, yet he's not considered that high tier just cause he can't combo? Plus, Shiek, Zero Suit Samus's and Diddy's attacks are pretty predictable and easy to counter. Even Bowser's attacks are less predictable.

I think it's just a case of speedtards thinking that speed is everything and as long as something's fast, it's automatically god tier.

Unlike Smogon's bull**** Pokemon tiers, I BELIEVE (could be wrong) that the Smash tiering is based on how many tournaments were won with that particular character, last time I checked. Yeah, Bowser is strong, but is one of the bigger characters and thus can be hit multiple times due to his size by someone like Diddy before he can even land an attack. Though yes, I agree that they are predictable, but when I came across some Diddys and ZSSs online, they were the ones that gave me the most trouble. (And those Marths that refuse to attack you and then when you come up to attack them, they counter and unleash a hell of a lot of follow up attacks.)

Quote: I-Brawler

Quote: MugoUrth

Yeah, but with no good smash attacks, they would have to rack up LOTS of damage in order to KO an opponent. A character like Bowser can KO something before it hits 100%, yet he's not considered that high tier just cause he can't combo? Plus, Shiek, Zero Suit Samus's and Diddy's attacks are pretty predictable and easy to counter. Even Bowser's attacks are less predictable.

I think it's just a case of speedtards thinking that speed is everything and as long as something's fast, it's automatically god tier.

Unlike Smogon's bull**** Pokemon tiers, I BELIEVE (could be wrong) that the Smash tiering is based on how many tournaments were won with that particular character, last time I checked. Yeah, Bowser is strong, but is one of the bigger characters and thus can be hit multiple times due to his size by someone like Diddy before he can even land an attack. Though yes, I agree that they are predictable, but when I came across some Diddys and ZSSs online, they were the ones that gave me the most trouble. (And those Marths that refuse to attack you and then when you come up to attack them, they counter and unleash a hell of a lot of follow up attacks.)

Yeah, Bowser kind of relies on how smart the user is. A really good Bowser player can still dodge attacks and send the hurt-down. Me, I'm okay but I can't say I really take pride in my skills with him. The other day I fought a Pikachu player, and I couldn't help but feel a bit disappointed in myself every time I fell for fake-out motions. Still, the one satisfaction I got out of that fight was that Pikachu was at about 50-60 so percent of damage, and with one well-timed dropkick, Pikachu was gone. I still lost, but I did kind of feel good about that attack, and I did kind of admire the dude's skill.

As for the counter-spammers, they sound like the kind of characters only idiots fall for. A counter has to be unexpected, and is not exactly ideal against divebombers like Bowser or Yoshi or the Mii Brawler. ...Speaking of Yoshi, I'm kinda surprised that a character that's been considered low-tier for so long is actually considered high-tier in this game.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Quote:

Yeah, but with no good smash attacks, they would have to rack up LOTS of damage in order to KO an opponent.

Smash attacks are far from the only way to KO. For a lot of characters, it's not their best KO option.

Oh right, cause I'm POSITIVE good players are dumb enough to get meteor smashed. Personally, again I think it's just speedtards deciding things. Speed and fast attacks aren't everything. Power and weight counts too.

Quote: I-Brawler

Quote: MugoUrth

Yeah, but with no good smash attacks, they would have to rack up LOTS of damage in order to KO an opponent. A character like Bowser can KO something before it hits 100%, yet he's not considered that high tier just cause he can't combo? Plus, Shiek, Zero Suit Samus's and Diddy's attacks are pretty predictable and easy to counter. Even Bowser's attacks are less predictable.

I think it's just a case of speedtards thinking that speed is everything and as long as something's fast, it's automatically god tier.

Unlike Smogon's bull**** Pokemon tiers, I BELIEVE (could be wrong) that the Smash tiering is based on how many tournaments were won with that particular character, last time I checked. Yeah, Bowser is strong, but is one of the bigger characters and thus can be hit multiple times due to his size by someone like Diddy before he can even land an attack. Though yes, I agree that they are predictable, but when I came across some Diddys and ZSSs online, they were the ones that gave me the most trouble. (And those Marths that refuse to attack you and then when you come up to attack them, they counter and unleash a hell of a lot of follow up attacks.)

Yeah, Bowser kind of relies on how smart the user is. A really good Bowser player can still dodge attacks and send the hurt-down. Me, I'm okay but I can't say I really take pride in my skills with him. The other day I fought a Pikachu player, and I couldn't help but feel a bit disappointed in myself every time I fell for fake-out motions. Still, the one satisfaction I got out of that fight was that Pikachu was at about 50-60 so percent of damage, and with one well-timed dropkick, Pikachu was gone. I still lost, but I did kind of feel good about that attack, and I did kind of admire the dude's skill.

As for the counter-spammers, they sound like the kind of characters only idiots fall for. A counter has to be unexpected, and is not exactly ideal against divebombers like Bowser or Yoshi or the Mii Brawler. ...Speaking of Yoshi, I'm kinda surprised that a character that's been considered low-tier for so long is actually considered high-tier in this game.

Quote: MugoUrth

Quote: I-Brawler

Unlike Smogon's bull**** Pokemon tiers, I BELIEVE (could be wrong) that the Smash tiering is based on how many tournaments were won with that particular character, last time I checked. Yeah, Bowser is strong, but is one of the bigger characters and thus can be hit multiple times due to his size by someone like Diddy before he can even land an attack. Though yes, I agree that they are predictable, but when I came across some Diddys and ZSSs online, they were the ones that gave me the most trouble. (And those Marths that refuse to attack you and then when you come up to attack them, they counter and unleash a hell of a lot of follow up attacks.)

Yeah, Bowser kind of relies on how smart the user is. A really good Bowser player can still dodge attacks and send the hurt-down. Me, I'm okay but I can't say I really take pride in my skills with him. The other day I fought a Pikachu player, and I couldn't help but feel a bit disappointed in myself every time I fell for fake-out motions. Still, the one satisfaction I got out of that fight was that Pikachu was at about 50-60 so percent of damage, and with one well-timed dropkick, Pikachu was gone. I still lost, but I did kind of feel good about that attack, and I did kind of admire the dude's skill.

As for the counter-spammers, they sound like the kind of characters only idiots fall for. A counter has to be unexpected, and is not exactly ideal against divebombers like Bowser or Yoshi or the Mii Brawler. ...Speaking of Yoshi, I'm kinda surprised that a character that's been considered low-tier for so long is actually considered high-tier in this game.

Bowser is a bit underrated in this game, but unlike our general consensus of the top 4 characters (Rosalina, Sheik, Diddy Kong and ZSS) he lacks any spammable ranged attacks, and is pretty limited in combo capability. The previously mentioned top 4 not only excel at speed, but have incredibly convenient special attacks, good aerial moves, and reliable ways of racking up damage. Plus, with the exception of Rosalina, they aren't very big targets. Their smashing capability is still stronger than that of, say, Pikachu's Jigglypuff's or Toon Link's, a fast character with more limited launching ability would be Sonic or Meta Knight. A good Bowser player can kick major ass in certain matches, but those top 4 are actually extremely well rounded characters who excel in much ore than just speed.

They're up there because they're good. Really good, and it isn't hard for anyone to learn how to use them, though more experienced ones will use them better, y'know? Let's take what makes Sheik good compared to what makes Bowser good.

Sheik
- Fast running speed
- Easily fireable ranged attacks
- Good recovery
- Strong Smashes
- Easy to keep opponents at a distance

Bowser
- Moderate running speed but still quite fast
- VERY strong Smashes
- Specials have their uses, some more than others
- Air attacks are very good
- One of the heaviest characters and thus harder to KO

However, what Bowser doesn't have compared to Sheik and the others is Ranged Attacks, and Spammability. This doesn't make him bad by any means, because in the right hands he's a monster. And just going by ranged attacks alone,

Rosalina has the Luma Shot
Diddy has the Peanut Popgun
Sheik has the Needle Storm
ZSS has the (though less distance) Stun Gun(or whatever its name is)
Bowser has nothing, except the poor range Fire Breath. And if he's facing against a good Sheik player, he's probably going to lose.

Now, I'm not saying that "this character is bad, use this character instead" because I'm actually quite decent with every character, though some more than others. (Luigi being the "some more than others" part) I, along with others, am just trying to tell you what makes these characters good and why people use them over others.

^ Yeah, but you can't use customs on For Glory mode.

Quote: I-Brawler

^ Yeah, but you can't use customs on For Glory mode.

Since when are we talking about For Glory?

Quote: I-Brawler

^ Yeah, but you can't use customs on For Glory mode.

Since when are we talking about For Glory?

They're up there because they're good. Really good, and it isn't hard for anyone to learn how to use them, though more experienced ones will use them better, y'know? Let's take what makes Sheik good compared to what makes Bowser good.

Sheik
- Fast running speed
- Easily fireable ranged attacks
- Good recovery
- Strong Smashes
- Easy to keep opponents at a distance

Bowser
- Moderate running speed but still quite fast
- VERY strong Smashes
- Specials have their uses, some more than others
- Air attacks are very good
- One of the heaviest characters and thus harder to KO

However, what Bowser doesn't have compared to Sheik and the others is Ranged Attacks, and Spammability. This doesn't make him bad by any means, because in the right hands he's a monster. And just going by ranged attacks alone,

Rosalina has the Luma Shot
Diddy has the Peanut Popgun
Sheik has the Needle Storm
ZSS has the (though less distance) Stun Gun(or whatever its name is)
Bowser has nothing, except the poor range Fire Breath. And if he's facing against a good Sheik player, he's probably going to lose.

Now, I'm not saying that "this character is bad, use this character instead" because I'm actually quite decent with every character, though some more than others. (Luigi being the "some more than others" part) I, along with others, am just trying to tell you what makes these characters good and why people use them over others.

Quote: Mesuxelf

Quote: I-Brawler

^ Yeah, but you can't use customs on For Glory mode.

Since when are we talking about For Glory?

Well, For Glory is the "competitive" side of Smash, kind of. Most official tournaments would follow For Glory standards with Final Destination, No items, No customs. Since tiers were brought into the discussion I assumed Mugo was talking about For Glory only.

I got my Smash CD a few days ago

I don't have an SD card, but I took this cool pic while trying my Shulk amiibo, I thought you'd all like it.

I do, but I have, no idea how to do it with a specific person.

Quote: StriderSwag

I don't have an SD card, but I took this cool pic while trying my Shulk amiibo, I thought you'd all like it.

I keep forgetting how good the Wii U version looks; I only really play the 3DS version because I carry my 3DS everywhere I go. But if I'm sitting down, I like to play the Wii U version.