darkSpyro

I always see a lot of complaining (particularly this time of year, every year) from folks (mostly kids, probably/hopefully) about the way that Activision releases figures in waves, forcing people to often wait months before they get the figures they want the most for a particular release. This year, the most prominent example has been the light/dark series. Some of the time, the complaining includes the argument that (paraphrasing) releasing the figures all at once would be no different, from a marketing standpoint, than doing the staggered releases.

I just thought now would be a good time to point out what a big difference the staggered releases can make. As many of you are aware, Nintendo's Amiibo line has absolutely caught fire in recent weeks amidst rumors of figures being discontinued, rarity, short-packing and all of that. In fact, it had turned my attention mostly away from Skylanders until last weekend. Then, in spite of being aware of them for months, Skylanders light and dark started launching. My excitement and anticipation of those figures/sets has been so great that I've now almost entirely forgotten about Amiibos (to the point that I missed out on a pre-order figure last night - sigh), right before Christmas. Activision has essentially clutched my last Christmas gift dollars that would've gone to Amiibos, and instead brought them back toward itself.

Had Activision released light and dark a month-and-a-half ago, along with everything else, it would've ceased being the most exciting thing for me as soon as this Amiibo storm hit. Instead, they're actively and successfully engaged in a tug-of-war for my cash-money. It doesn't matter than I knew about light and dark months ago. What matters is that they only now released them, and turned momentum in their favor.

I know how Activision releases figures in waves frustrates some people, and I understand it being a bummer waiting long periods of time for the figure(s) that you think look(s) the coolest, but they know what they're doing, and they're doing it right. And yeah, it's a money-grubbing tactic, but that's the whole name of the game; without it, there would be NO Skylanders.

...
I'm not going to argue against what Activision did. However, it has nothing to do with Amiibo. Heck I'm about to return my unopened Amiibos...they are simply useless thus far, and inconvenient due to lack of a portal of any sort.

People complain about the waves for multiple reasons, most of which are truly 'fair'.

Do you know what happens in October/November at TRU? Its the most consistent length of time for sales on these kind of items. It's when a parent (such as myself) is willing to load up their TRU credit card doing holiday shopping, because they can get the Krankcase castle for $50 (woo hoo) instead of the beyond overpriced $100. Between new games, skylanders, and disney, I put about $800 on my card. I would have loved to be able to buy everything at once under those sale conditions. When they stagger the releases, especially after the holidays, the sales are far less frequent, and usually not as good either. We've had some kind of sale at TRU 4/5 weeks for the past like 4 months, in 2015? Maybe once a month we'll get a sale, and only once every other month will the sale be significant enough to matter. So FINANCIALLY its easier to swallow it all up front, then to get stretched into buying figures often at full or near full price through the next year.

Then there is the unlocked content portion of the equation. Some will argue it increases longevity (in reality it doesn't, and that method of extending playtime shows poor game design to be honest). I'm not arguing for or against, I understand both sides of the debate, but it can be rather annoying to be able to SEE that you can't get into areas. To be honest, I'd rather the game purposely HID all elemental gates until you put a 'Lander that can unlock it on the portal. That would increase the the replay as you hunt things down. As well. completion percentage should be irrelevant of figures, with additional stars and the such being rewarded when you DO start to unlock content. It's irritating now because you can SEE how much you can't play.

The third and most obvious reason people don't like the staggered dates? Characters they want simply aren't out. Since I saw him, I've wanted Enigma, he doesn't look like his moves are going to be effective or strong, but he just looks so good. My son has earned enough stickers that I owe him Short Cut and Fling Kong, but they aren't out yet despite him wanting them. It's an annoyance. Again, I think more figures should just be 'hidden' until thety plan to release the figures. The way they wanted to do Dark/Light would actually be welcome moving forward for most content. We get upset because we know what we want.

But, there is good reason they do what they do. Making them is more efficient if they focus on fewer figures, I can't help but wonder if the paint on the DI figures would be cleaner if they started with fewer characters. They obviously don't lose money in 'sales', though a lot of the recent TRU sales are 100% TRU sales, and not sponsored by the manufacturer. They maintain momentum, since they refuse to do XBLA style add-on games that use existing portals and figures (Skylander Cart, make it happen, Super Skylander Fighter II: Spyro Edition - the narrative writes itself), it keeps the name bubbling, content on the shelf, etc until the next game in the cycle. It allows them to offer the largest quantities of figures as well. If they released all the figures at once, certain characters would be incredibly too hard to find for not being variants/chases.

So, they aren't wrong for staggering, but there are legit reasons why some of us wish they didn't.
- Unreall

i dont mind them releasing in waves. what irritates me the most is that i must sit and wait to get figures to access the whole game. waiting for adventures pack i can do to but when its stuff in the actually game i cant access then its not good. release one of all elements and no locks from adventures packs in the game... then its good.

It's probably not a well known fact that Activision doesn't consider what they release as "waves" even though they have Wx on the boxes. They simply refer them to shipments without a real regard of when and communicating it. They're taking a page out of the Beanie Babies era to promote excitement.

You know, I'm sure if they released everything needed to 100% the game on day 1, I'm sure it would just be: "Oh, what a short game. This is stupid! It took me only a few days to unlock everything, the only thing I can do now is play for fun!" Seriously, I get that it's annoying to not be able to 100% the game for a few months, but you can at least play for fun, right? If you are going to spend your money on a ton of figures, just to 100% the game, it obviously doesn't mean anything to you.

Quote: mega spyro

You know, I'm sure if they released everything needed to 100% the game on day 1, I'm sure it would just be: "Oh, what a short game. This is stupid! It took me only a few days to unlock everything, the only thing I can do now is play for fun!" Seriously, I get that it's annoying to not be able to 100% the game for a few months, but you can at least play for fun, right? If you are going to spend your money on a ton of figures, just to 100% the game, it obviously doesn't mean anything to you.

Why would you EVER play for fun, and enjoy what you previously bought, when you could easily access the whole game on D1, and simply put away the disc after a few days, waiting for Skylanders 5 to be revealed?

It would make NO SENSE!

I actually like the staggered releases, it gives me something to look forward to throughout the year. That and if they were all available Day 1 I would never be able to sum up all that money to buy them all like I usually do, buying around 10 or so every couple months is much more manageable for most people.

The thing with no being able to 100% the game day 1... I really dont care, it makes me want pick the game up again when the remaining areas/content become available. I more collect them than play the games, that might be why. In between waves I train with my friend on pokemon for VGC so every couple months I can pick up skylanders and play with the new figures, can take a break from each of the games this way.

Quote: mega spyro

You know, I'm sure if they released everything needed to 100% the game on day 1, I'm sure it would just be: "Oh, what a short game. This is stupid! It took me only a few days to unlock everything, the only thing I can do now is play for fun!" Seriously, I get that it's annoying to not be able to 100% the game for a few months, but you can at least play for fun, right? If you are going to spend your money on a ton of figures, just to 100% the game, it obviously doesn't mean anything to you.

This is the one argument I take issue with. When I bought Sunset Overdrive, I didn't need them to stagger the release of content for me to log 40 hours+. The game was fun and has me constantly coming back for more - even after I beat it, a REAL rarity. I even put CoD back on the shelf because of SO. NO OTHER GAME HIDES CONTENT and uses it as a way to 'extend gameplay'. Sure you may have DLC on disc, but usually, it's unfinished or out right purchasable, it's NOT the core of the game with missing parts. If there is a concern that people will burn through the game with 100% of the characters needed to 100% the game, then I'm sorry...

There is something wrong with the game

It's that plain and simple. It's merely a mask to cover up holes - and that is simply not good enough for the cost of the series. That is why I'm a proponent of DLC, small games on XBLA and PSN that expand the use of the figures, etc. I'm not going to sit here and complain about the game length (I find it actually spot on here), but if the concern is burning through content, then they need to establish things to extend the content further. DI simply added 'self content creation' with the Toy Box - some would argue that's even the core of the game. Skylander's has TONS of options to tap into from mini-games, to expanded lore, to copying DI with a content creation option.

And don't get me wrong, I'm actually not arguing for or against anything, but acting as though it's a players fault for wanting to PLAY THE GAME THEY BOUGHT, isn't fair. Imagine playing a Final Fantasy, and not being able to use half the spells or summons, because Square thinks you'll play the game longer, waiting for those abilities. It's flawed thinking.
- Unreall

Half the spells and summons? Really? More like a couple. You haven't been locked out of large swaths of content, they just left a few areas to drive interest later. Boo Hoo. The idea is to keep interest going for a year until the next game, so they spread things out some. Not to mention manufacturing realities mean you can't have everything made and out on the first day. This isn't digital stuff, it is physical toys.

Besides, most of the target audience (kids, yo - not grown ups that run from store to store so they can fill their shrine and complain about their OCD on the Internet) haven't even played the game yet. And by the time they do next Thursday, the ability to access every single bit of content will *shock and awe* actually be accessible with released figures. That's right those horrible locked off magic gates and Light/Dark areas will be completely available using figures all those kids you can walk into a store and buy. As far as they are concerned they can do everything on Day 1 - which is Christmas.

Hey, I'm a collector too - I like to cross things off my list ASAP too. But, I don't for one second believe they need to tailor their marketing to what works best for me.

I'll never understand why highly invested collector fans are so anxious to be 100% finished with a game that costs so much.

I'm *personally* not worried, I haven't 100% what I can now, nor am I torn up about not having everything (that's on purpose this year, cutting back on the $$$). But I'm firm on my stance, withholding content doesn't equate to 'extending replay value'. Usually, when a game has something remotely close to 'this' like unlocking a special move after beating the game (Mega Man X), you might toy around with it afterwards, but it doesn't change up the experience enough to warrant a full 'playthrough'. Activ's release schedule has NO baring on how people play the game. People who rush through games might collect some of the newer figures, but they'll still rush through that...it makes NO difference in reality from a 'gameplay' stand point.

Again, don't take me out of context, I'm not for or against the release schedule - there is logic on both sides of the fence as I enumerated in my first post, the only thing I take issue with is the idea that it extends the life of the game - it doesn't. I took my time, played through the game. Beat maybe a month after it came out. Didn't hunt down collectibles. I did Kaos mode after that. Since then? It's just sat there as I've decided to wait until 'what turns out to be Sunday' to play it again. No salt, no tears. But it's not extending the replayability, just 'when' I play it. I think its the big flaw in all things skylanders that I wish they would work on...reasons to keep playing.

Take Diablo 3, I think it's a PERFECT example. They have had 'one' add on campaign, but for the most part the core game has been the same since 2012 or 2011. People STILL play it, because there is a reason too, you can keep getting 'stronger'. I'm not indicting the series over that, just wanting them to look at the example as a "goal" moving forward, making an experience that truly can last a year. There is no online component a la CoD, no growth system like Diablo, no content creation like DI, and the 'equivalent to DLC' adventure packs have been so short that people *on the forums at least* have been complaining about the length. I don't want them to double the campaign or anything silly like that, just don't use a staggered release as an excuse or short-cut to solving the real 'problem' - content.
- Unreall

The problem with this light and dark release date of 12-21 is its simply too close to Christmas, this should have been released 1-2 weeks ago. Doing so would have given parents plenty of time and planning to buy them as gifts (and could have possibly taken away from some amiibo sales). Now it is getting too close to Xmas which leaves parents scrambling. Its also too late to do online shipping for these items because they will not arrive for Xmas. Not everyone has a TRU near them and can go on a whim to get them so that they are Santa gifts for kids If they were released 1-2 weeks ago people would buy just as many if not more as they are going to this weekend. What about all those kids who asked for these items for Xmas, now some will not get them. This is poor planning on the part of Activision.

Everything hinges on Xmas, and Activision seems to have forgotten this, once Xmas and Xmas break is over for the kids, there will be almost no sales of these products. TRU also seems to have forgotten that they are a TOY store and people want toys for Xmas and they want them in time for Xmas (this is mainly a rant about how slow TRU's online shipping has been lately even when items are ordered around BF or the first of Dec and how some people are just finding out about orders being cancelled, not leaving enough time for them to get replacement gifts in time for Xmas). Over in my area people are not buying skylanders probably because they can't afford them and they just tell their kids no you can't have it as we have plenty on the shelves. We also have full shelves of DI Figures with literately none missing from any pegs and Amiibo figures are stocked so high they are falling off the pegs. No store in my area has had winterfest lob star except for the overpriced Gamestop and Target did not get this figure in at all unless it comes this weekend and even GS's shipment did not arrive till like 5 days after the Skylanders day. If I did not place an order from TRU online I would not have this figure and thankfully I had other things to buy so I was able to get to the $49 for free shipping mark.

I don't care about myself as I will surely find these figures easily at Target, Sam's club or somewhere else and Sam's club might I say has been a haven for rare figures, ours just got in a full case of Quick Draw Rattle Shake which I don't want but would be a nice gift for a kid but for all the parents who need these items as Santa gifts Acti is sure making this difficult.

The same shenanigans happened last year with non-lc HB HB and P

If they're going to withhold content, it should be the APs, which introduce WHOLLY NEW LEVELS and NOTHING ELSE. The purpose of the APs should be to extend interest in coming back to the game, and they can do it a lot better. If you don't want to buy them, or you're still waiting for them, they're a lot easier to ignore. It isn't fun seeing Gates you can access and Quests you can't do, just because the characters for it aren't out yet, in levels you've replayed dozens of times.

I've stopped exploring all the levels because I keep running into Gates I can't do anything anything about, and honestly don't care about doing besides the satisfaction of 100%, since I don't like most Hats and there's plenty of treasure.
Also, it's going to be annoying going through some of the levels I don't like when this stuff is actually out, because in some I just need to finish one Quest/Gate that's 10-15 minutes into the level.

SF did the same thing with Dig/Sneak swappers (hell, I couldn't use a Sneak until FEBRUARY because of how the releases are here), but at least the SWAP Zones had more unique gameplay and you could 3-star them as well.

Diablo 3 is a far cry from the game that released some two and a half years ago (the first Skylanders was the rage back then), and it isn't just the expansion. It has changed vastly over that time period to the point where people don't even play it the same way anymore. It was a straight up loot grind for most of that period. These days it is more of a competition on the ladder and greater rift running than to simply run the same area pattern over and over waiting for hours to get one legendary. You still grind some for loot, but mainly that's just to find perfect roll items.

For Skylanders to ape that, it would have to fundamentally change over patches, which I don't think is really going to happen. It would also involve more character development than simply leveling to max level. Leveling to max level in Diablo 3 is just the start of things, in fact on a double exp holiday weekend it can also be done in 20 minutes with a well geared friend. A buddy of mine made two level 70s for me and four level 70s for my wife in one evening a while back by running Torment 6 with us on his mega equipped Demon Hunter - all I did was follow him out of range of the bad guys and collect stuff. For a Skylander, that would be "done" - but in Diablo 3, my new level 70s are just starting and no where near my Barbarian.

Damn now that's a lot of time spent on reading I just commited to with this thread, lol.. I'm just glad we are getting way more than expected before this years end! Most ever in franchise history

Quote: skylander_chaos

Damn now that's a lot of time spent on reading I just commited to with this thread, lol.. I'm just glad we are getting way more than expected before this years end! Most ever in franchise history

In terms of STUFF/TOYS, yes. Jury is out on actual content. Based on level lengths, we're getting more VARIETY...just not convinced QUANTITY is more.

^ oh so true buddy! Yes , just in terms of toys.

I have no problems at all with waves because that's how toylines usually work.
New products keep up excitement and sales, a reason to keep checking the store instead of being set day 1.

Plus, it would be much harder to find your favorites if they were released all at once because they can only ship/carry so many at a time. Think you're having a hard time with the 4-per-shipment Amiibos? Imagine if it was only one!

Quote: defpally

Diablo 3 is a far cry from the game that released some two and a half years ago (the first Skylanders was the rage back then), and it isn't just the expansion. It has changed vastly over that time period to the point where people don't even play it the same way anymore. It was a straight up loot grind for most of that period. These days it is more of a competition on the ladder and greater rift running than to simply run the same area pattern over and over waiting for hours to get one legendary. You still grind some for loot, but mainly that's just to find perfect roll items.

For Skylanders to ape that, it would have to fundamentally change over patches, which I don't think is really going to happen. It would also involve more character development than simply leveling to max level. Leveling to max level in Diablo 3 is just the start of things, in fact on a double exp holiday weekend it can also be done in 20 minutes with a well geared friend. A buddy of mine made two level 70s for me and four level 70s for my wife in one evening a while back by running Torment 6 with us on his mega equipped Demon Hunter - all I did was follow him out of range of the bad guys and collect stuff. For a Skylander, that would be "done" - but in Diablo 3, my new level 70s are just starting and no where near my Barbarian.

Oh yeah it has changed through patches and I'm not actually advocating that, but marinate on it, we are working through our 4th entry in the series, they are on a noted 'yearly' cycle, etc - so instead of a patch, its a new game based on the same concept. I just think they should look at why people are still playing games like Diablo or Path of Exile, and figure what they can bring over to make people WANT to play more. The adventure packs are really the 'content' packs here, just like the expansion of D3, it adds a character and a new level (instead of a new arc). That's fine and all, but after I beat it, there is very very very little appeal to replay the level, as opposed to D3 where people at least used to farm the heck out of certain areas. There are parts of D3 I hated, but the rewards made it worth it at times.

Is there anything like that here? If you don't like an area, you just never redo it (that's what hurt Swap Force so much IMO with the long levels, you just didn't want to do most of them). I'm not going to pretend to have the answer, and I hope I don't sound bitter, because I'm quite satisfied with Trap Team - and I have 3 copies of it (Dark-XBOne, 360, Tablet). But I can see the writing on the wall, if someone like me is scaling back, I know others are doing the same, and as someone who used to buy lots from parent's who kids just stopped playing the game, its even more obvious that they need to find a way to keep people playing longer...not just over a longer period of time, but more hours logged.
- Unreall

Hey, I love Diablo 3, so I get it. Me, my wife and oldest son have put a ton of time into it. And for those that haven't tried it but love Skylanders, it is an easy recommendation (if you meet the age on the rating, of course).

For Skylanders to reach that point it would have to implement gearing more than hats. The levels themselves are pretty straight forward, that's not what keep people coming back. You would need to want to put more time into a single Skylander though, which is kind of counter to what Activision wants us to do - they don't want us to grind ONE figure. What Skylanders could do, and they should, is implement the level randomization. Design levels as a "tile set" with certain "story" tiles set up to appear at fixed intervals - but the connecting pieces would vary every time you play - one time you might be going forward, the next left, etc.. It would create some of a generic feeling and put a significant limit on puzzle layouts (thinking that Giants pipe level for instance which wouldn't work with randomization well), but it would increase longevity.

Skylanders could also increase monster density, particularly since the Wii version is already being deprecated. I love big epic 1 vs. 100 battles.

Quote: defpally

Hey, I love Diablo 3, so I get it. Me, my wife and oldest son have put a ton of time into it. And for those that haven't tried it but love Skylanders, it is an easy recommendation (if you meet the age on the rating, of course).

For Skylanders to reach that point it would have to implement gearing more than hats. The levels themselves are pretty straight forward, that's not what keep people coming back. You would need to want to put more time into a single Skylander though, which is kind of counter to what Activision wants us to do - they don't want us to grind ONE figure. What Skylanders could do, and they should, is implement the level randomization. Design levels as a "tile set" with certain "story" tiles set up to appear at fixed intervals - but the connecting pieces would vary every time you play - one time you might be going forward, the next left, etc.. It would create some of a generic feeling and put a significant limit on puzzle layouts (thinking that Giants pipe level for instance which wouldn't work with randomization well), but it would increase longevity.

Skylanders could also increase monster density, particularly since the Wii version is already being deprecated. I love big epic 1 vs. 100 battles.

I love those epic challenges as well, its what drove me to Kaos mode...I don't care about running around a level, I want to beat stuff up hahaha.

As for D3, I guess that's why I'm saying look at it and other games to figure it out, I'm not calling for them to clone D3 at all, just study the underlying concept - replaying content improves your character or rewards you. Holding back 'magic' trap masters to force a replay - doesn't count. I think your right in that in may not necessarily be tied to "making Spyro epically strong", maybe they could make legendary items that unlock after certain conditions, that have a strong enough affect that they can alter gameplay. Something where everytime you get hit, you emit a wave of your 'element' to 'some affect' to foes, and it can be amped up based on how many of the items you unlock. Maybe it cost money (the game needs money sinks, I never understood it until D3 added them) to do the trials to access these 'new tier' items. It would prevent things from being backwards compatible, so that wouldn't be a concern, it won't break things in the future like a ridiculous hat, etc. On that same note - why not ladders? That wouldn't be PvP, and dungeons with truly scaling difficulty could be designed to take advantage of the new strengths of the skylanders. Even on TOP of it all, it would/could add variables to the gameplay...

In D3, you could focus on certain gear on a wiz for an 'ice build', well you could possibly do the samething here, magic items that boost speed, along with maybe momentum items that increase damage based on how much damage you've done in x amount of time, or maybe pets that follw you to the point that Grilla Drilla could go 'full pet master'. the potential is right there without copying diablo, without spending a bunch of money in development, etc. Heck it would still 'be' Skylanders ya know?
- Unreall

I have no issue with them releasing toys in waves. Most brands do that with their toys, it gives stores time to sell things before new stuff hits shelves. It also keeps people interested and waiting for new stuff. My problem is that things are not being given hard release dates until a few days before launch, and we're not even sure what stores will be carrying new stuff. We're also not sure how much supply will be there for this demand. Even though I'm planning on being at TRU first thing Sunday morning I'm still worried about possibly going home without a Light or Dark park. Disney handles it the best, all their waves get hard release dates way in advance and there is always tons of stock so you never have to worry about not finding something and having to give into inflated scalper prices on Amazon or eBay. Nintendo is handling it the worse by far, sometimes I wonder if these scalpers are Nintendo employees making a buck off people.

Defpally, Unreallistic - what platform are you playing Diablo 3 on?

Quote: defpally

Hey, I love Diablo 3, so I get it. Me, my wife and oldest son have put a ton of time into it. And for those that haven't tried it but love Skylanders, it is an easy recommendation (if you meet the age on the rating, of course).

For Skylanders to reach that point it would have to implement gearing more than hats. The levels themselves are pretty straight forward, that's not what keep people coming back. You would need to want to put more time into a single Skylander though, which is kind of counter to what Activision wants us to do - they don't want us to grind ONE figure. What Skylanders could do, and they should, is implement the level randomization. Design levels as a "tile set" with certain "story" tiles set up to appear at fixed intervals - but the connecting pieces would vary every time you play - one time you might be going forward, the next left, etc.. It would create some of a generic feeling and put a significant limit on puzzle layouts (thinking that Giants pipe level for instance which wouldn't work with randomization well), but it would increase longevity.

Skylanders could also increase monster density, particularly since the Wii version is already being deprecated. I love big epic 1 vs. 100 battles.

Ironically, I've bought Diablo months ago to play with defpally and I haven't had time.

Quote: Rom713

Defpally, Unreallistic - what platform are you playing Diablo 3 on?

I have vanilla D3 on the PC and I got the RoS version on the XBOne. I stopped playing on the PC about a year ago, so I'm horribly out of date (do Barbs still run? hahaha j/k), and on XBOne, I haven't progressed through the 'whole' game yet on my wiz (I think I beat Diablo 3 times now?). I bought it and then if memory serves - Skylanders and DI came out a little after that, then Sunset Overdrive and CoD...with Sunset Overdrive just absorbing ANY game time I have...man that game is delicious...its a guilty pleasure too, like maple syrup bacon deviled eggs.
- Unreall

I have Diablo 3 RoS on PC, PS4 and PS3 (both vanilla and UEE). I played mostly on PC, now more on PS4. But PC is not forgotten, have pet WD, M6 DH there.
Barbs do not run in WW build with perma berserk anymore they now jump or charge. But WW build is expected to be back soon(tm) with new set for it in patch 2.2

Quote: Rom713

I have Diablo 3 RoS on PC, PS4 and PS3 (both vanilla and UEE). I played mostly on PC, now more on PS4. But PC is not forgotten, have pet WD, M6 DH there.
Barbs do not run in WW build with perma berserk anymore they now jump or charge. But WW build is expected to be back soon(tm) with new set for it in patch 2.2

Nice. I'd like to get back into it, but I just started a new job and I'm trying to get my music career back on track honestly, so I refuse to go overboard on gaming.
- Unreall