darkSpyro

Just leaving this here. I would really recommend the site put an age verification in the registration and limit access for individuals under 13.
http://consumerist.com/2014/09...-from-children/

I 100% agree. Dark has said no before, but why? I'd like to know why he says no...but he's pretty arrogant and probably won't give a reason.

He doesn't owe us a reason for his decisions. I just really feel that it would be in his (and the site's) best interest.

Quote: UncleBob

He doesn't owe us a reason for his decisions. I just really feel that it would be in his (and the site's) best interest.

Skylanders does happen to be for kids, but most forums make it clear that kids under thirteen are not permitted. I understand where you're coming from and I totally agree with you.

I'm not here for Skylanders, hell, I don't really like being here. I joined this forum when I was thirteen or fourteen, and I'm twenty now. I joined because I wanted to discuss about the original Spyro the Dragon trilogy, ended up staying for the general chats, and am hardly active anymore especially with my second year of college starting in four days. The only reason I'm still here is because my friends happen to still come by here, and I enjoy talking to them.

With kids thirteen and under posting here all I see are a lot of drama and scenes. Hell, a lot of them post in Stuff & Nonsense (where a lot of inappropriate jokes are found) and it's absolutely ridiculous. I've mentioned before that I wanted to see S&N become password protected, but dark never responded to my personal message.

Unfortunately, neither of these are going to happen. The day my friends leave this site, I'm out of here. I've gotten to the point where I feel far to old to be posting on a Spyro the Dragon forum, especially since there hasn't been a Spyro game since 2008. There also hasn't been a good Spyro game since 2000. For Christ's sake, I'm a Math/Physics major, I have other things to do and am no longer interested into Spyro the Dragon.

How to make an age verification quiz.

[img]picture of some Skylander[/img]
who is this?

*word box*

Quote: UncleBob

He doesn't owe us a reason for his decisions. I just really feel that it would be in his (and the site's) best interest.

But apparently there are some decisions of his that we need to know the reasons why though.

Quote: UncleBob

He doesn't owe us a reason for his decisions. I just really feel that it would be in his (and the site's) best interest.

I disagree with that statement with a burning passion from hell. With various reasons that would explain a lot, but I'm not gonna even bother with you because you're really stubborn to the point it's intolerable to argue with you. Because it always has to seem like "I'm right, and there's no other reason why I'm not." even though your claims came with no evidence.

And what are those decisions that you feel that you are entitled to know the reasons behind?

Quote: UncleBob

And what are those decisions that you feel that you are entitled to know the reasons behind?

Why he never tends to user concerns, and is in fact, only concerned mostly about the news involving Skylanders. I don't want no excuses made up for him, I just want a straight answer from the "admin" himself.

Quote: UncleBob

And what are those decisions that you feel that you are entitled to know the reasons behind?

Like with evidence of CountFunnyBone being Kappa, how come he has yet to ban him again? There's more, just I can't think of any other good ones at the moment.

Quote: Aura24

Why he never tends to user concerns, and is in fact, only concerned mostly about the news involving Skylanders.

That's a good question, I suppose. Now, why do you feel that you're entitled to know the answer to it? What are the circumstances that make you feel that dark owes you an explanation as to why he isn't consumed with the burning desire to respond to every user's every single whim?

Quote: Trix Master 100

Like with evidence of CountFunnyBone being Kappa, how come he has yet to ban him again?

A.) I thought you were done.
B.) It's a private forum, dark can ban or not ban whomever he wants for whatever reason he wants (including no reason).

Quote: UncleBob

Quote: Trix Master 100

Like with evidence of CountFunnyBone being Kappa, how come he has yet to ban him again?

A.) I thought you were done.
B.) It's a private forum, dark can ban or not ban whomever he wants for whatever reason he wants (including no reason).

This is a public forum e.e. It's not the matter of want if it's an already ripto'd user returning though.

A.) Now I think I'm done with you. Clearly I see that you might have you head in a place that is not on your shoulders.

No, this is not a public forum. It's privately owned by dark. I'm not sure at what point you went under the misunderstanding that the public owned this forum, but they do not.

Quote: UncleBob

Quote: Aura24

Why he never tends to user concerns, and is in fact, only concerned mostly about the news involving Skylanders.

That's a good question, I suppose. Now, why do you feel that you're entitled to know the answer to it? What are the circumstances that make you feel that dark owes you an explanation as to why he isn't consumed with the burning desire to respond to every user's every single whim?

Because some users have been trolling me in the past and for a while, I have sent dark messages regarding the issue but he either just ignores them or he waits five to ten months before he actually takes action. In 2012, I was trolled excessively by Kappapopm (who was banned two times, but is on another account now), and dark didn't do a single thing when I was being a target for harassment.

And when gnarlytreesnex kept posting his private information earlier this year, dark only removed the messages but never banned gnarly for his own personal safety and apparently saw no problem with it. It got worse when gnarly posted his account password on the forum and users got in, that's when dark finally took action, which was weeks too late.

And now recently, a user had tried to rally several other users in an effort to get rid of me, something Kappa had done in the past. When I brought it up to dark, he didn't do anything but post in the Skylanders section and ignore my messages altogether. I'm still in fact PO'ed at dark52 for allowing the trolling to escalate out of control while he just sat there and attend to duties that "are more important" than a user being harassed constantly. He still hasn't shown no signs of improvement.

When news of Skylanders brews, dark52 is eager to go and post about it, but when it comes to user concerns like harassment, he does nothing until he feels like it.

Sickening.

Quote: UncleBob

No, this is not a public forum. It's privately owned by dark. I'm not sure at what point you went under the misunderstanding that the public owned this forum, but they do not.

I'm pretty sure it's public if anyone can see the forum without an account. Private forums, won't that be more like Dark choose a selective amount of people to join then allow them to choose who and so on. Or requires a account to access the site :/

Aura24:
A.) It seems to me, you bring a lot of the "hate" upon yourself.
B.) If you hate dark so much, then why not leave his forum?
C.) All of this is off topic and I'd thank you if you would return to the topic at hand (the age verification issue) and/or move on to another topic. If you prefer to be in another "dark sucks" topic, feel free to go to one of those or start yet another one...

Quote: Trix Master 100

I'm pretty sure it's public if anyone can see the forum without an account.

You would be incorrect.

Quote: UncleBob

Aura24:
A.) It seems to me, you bring a lot of the "hate" upon yourself.
B.) If you hate dark so much, then why not leave his forum?
C.) All of this is off topic and I'd thank you if you would return to the topic at hand (the age verification issue) and/or move on to another topic. If you prefer to be in another "dark sucks" topic, feel free to go to one of those or start yet another one...

Quote: Trix Master 100

I'm pretty sure it's public if anyone can see the forum without an account.

You would be incorrect.

Perhaps our definitions of "public forums" and "private forums" are to different things.

Oh my ****ing god why are you Dark's kiss ass? Look Aura tries not to get hate on herself, hate just freaking happens, regardless. Also there's no rule saying she has to like the admin in order to stay in a forum (that would be stupid). Also This topic went to hell after you said "Dark doesn't owe you any explanations". that's what helped derail your own topic.

Quote: UncleBob

Aura24:
A.) It seems to me, you bring a lot of the "hate" upon yourself.
B.) If you hate dark so much, then why not leave his forum?
C.) All of this is off topic and I'd thank you if you would return to the topic at hand (the age verification issue) and/or move on to another topic. If you prefer to be in another "dark sucks" topic, feel free to go to one of those or start yet another one...

You're hilarious, Bobby. Simply, utterly hilarious. Funny enough to assume that my actions of just wanting to enjoy this community I've grown to love is enough for me to become a target for trolls to constantly berate me, or others, while the admin didn't do **** when his attention was needed on the matter.

But whatever, you'll only make excuses for our "dear admin" and constantly praise him all you want. He can't keep quiet about his actions forever.

"Open to the public" isn't the same as "owned by the public".

I'm not sucking up to dark by stating facts.

And I didn't say she *had* to like the owner of the forum to stay here. I just don't understand why someone would willingly hang around somewhere where they hate the person who owns the place so much.

Age limits have been denied time and time again. And since you believe Dark doesn't owe you an explanation, there's no reason to try and explain why.

Also with Dark not being a US citizen, laws such as this may not apply in the same way.

Quote: UncleBob

"Open to the public" isn't the same as "owned by the public".

I'm not sucking up to dark by stating facts.

If the forum is open to the public, it is a public forum. Yeah it's owned by one guy but that doesn't make it a private forum.

They aren't really facts. It's speculation since we don't have Dark to say anything and clear the air.

Quote: UncleBob

"Open to the public" isn't the same as "owned by the public".

I'm not sucking up to dark by stating facts.

And I didn't say she *had* to like the owner of the forum to stay here. I just don't understand why someone would willingly hang around somewhere where they hate the person who owns the place so much.

I find that a load of bull****. Perhaps some people like it here, because of the community and not the admin?

So... if you have a garage sale, does that mean your garage is now public property because you allowed the public in it?

And you're right, dark doesn't *owe* me an explanation - and I never came here demanding one from him. Merely showing another example of why an Age Verification system needs to be in place.

Quote: CAV

Also with Dark not being a US citizen, laws such as this may not apply in the same way.

Doesn't matter - the forum is hosted in the US - he's opening the hosts of the site to all kinds of liability issues - most of which are probably covered by agreements he made when he set up the forums on their servers, potentially opening him to civil damages as well.

Dark doesn't sell anything here. I see it more like him owning a buliding and allowing everybody to reside in it. He owns it, but it's public.

Well no I didn't say that I agreed with such a concept, merely stating that you claim such.

EDIT: Worth noting that this, from what I know of, a rather rare case of this rule actually being enforced. Youtube, Facebook, and many other forums on the web have children under 13 on them and they don't get in any trouble. Age limits are rarely enforced on the internet.

I never claimed the website was public?

Quote: UncleBob

So... if you have a garage sale, does that mean your garage is now public property because you allowed the public in it?

And you're right, dark doesn't *owe* me an explanation - and I never came here demanding one from him. Merely showing another example of why an Age Verification system needs to be in place.

Quote: CAV

Also with Dark not being a US citizen, laws such as this may not apply in the same way.

Doesn't matter - the forum is hosted in the US - he's opening the hosts of the site to all kinds of liability issues - most of which are probably covered by agreements he made when he set up the forums on their servers, potentially opening him to civil damages as well.

Garage sales are too complex for this.

Quote: UncleBob

I never claimed the website was public?

No you are misreading my posts. I'm saying that you've claimed that Dark doesn't owe anybody an explanation, which I disagree with, but used your logic in a response.

Quote: CAV

EDIT: Worth noting that this, from what I know of, a rather rare case of this rule actually being enforced. Youtube, Facebook, and many other forums on the web have children under 13 on them and they don't get in any trouble. Age limits are rarely enforced on the internet.

Youtube, Facebook and many other forums have an Age Verification system in place (where you enter your birthdate - it doesn't have to be anything complex) and will remove user accounts the moment they discover that the user is under 13 in order to comply with COPPA.

In fact, Facebook works so hard to comply with COPPA that they've been working on a complex system that allows them to use the site.
http://www.politico.com/story/...ren-107246.html

Quote: UncleBob

Quote: CAV

EDIT: Worth noting that this, from what I know of, a rather rare case of this rule actually being enforced. Youtube, Facebook, and many other forums on the web have children under 13 on them and they don't get in any trouble. Age limits are rarely enforced on the internet.

Youtube, Facebook and many other forums have an Age Verification system in place (where you enter your birthdate - it doesn't have to be anything complex) and will remove user accounts the moment they discover that the user is under 13 in order to comply with COPPA.

In fact, Facebook works so hard to comply with COPPA that they've been working on a complex system that allows them to use the site.
http://www.politico.com/story/...ren-107246.html

You can still lie about your age on the internet. It's not difficult.

And what about the ton of forums online that don't abide to this rule (or have very loose rules about it)? They don't get shut down for it.

Quote: JCW555

You're acting like one because your calling everyone idiots

Where did I call anyone an idiot? Please quote.

Quote:

because you keep proposing this idea over and over and over, and it's been denied before, so why bring it up again.

Because a ruling just came down where a website was fined $300,000 and I don't want to see the same thing happen here?

Quote:

Also a forum is public if you can read it w/o an account. I've had forums that ask you to create accounts before you can even view it. That's private.

Accessible to the public isn't the same as owned by the public.

Quote:

Now darkSpyro is based in the UK,

No, it isn't. Please research your statements before you make them. It will make the conversation easier for both of us.

Quote:

So you thinking an age limit would never be bypassed.

What?

Quote:

You just doing this because you don't want to get in trouble anymore, and your continuing of this argument is useless.

How would this keep me out of trouble?

Quote:

AND THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE, BECAUSE JCW SAID SO!

Hey, JCW - can you delete the off topic posts from this thread?


Quote: CAV

Quote: UncleBob

I never claimed the website was public?

No you are misreading my posts. I'm saying that you've claimed that Dark doesn't owe anybody an explanation, which I disagree with, but used your logic in a response.

I said dark didn't owe me an explanation and you used that against me saying that dark doesn't owe me an explanation?

Quote: CAV

You can still lie about your age on the internet. It's not difficult.

And what about the ton of forums online that don't abide to this rule (or have very loose rules about it)? They don't get shut down for it.

Sure, you can lie. But having the system in place PROTECTS dark and PROTECTS the forum. Period.

As for who gets in trouble, there's a lot around it, but, basically, is generally take someone reporting it to the FCC. There's a quick and dirty webform and takes about two minutes to fill out. All it takes is one banned user to decide "Hey, I want to screw this site over." and blammo.

Ni got Dark's attention faster then most users. #fakingdeathisabignono

Quote: UncleBob

Quote: CAV

You can still lie about your age on the internet. It's not difficult.

And what about the ton of forums online that don't abide to this rule (or have very loose rules about it)? They don't get shut down for it.

Sure, you can lie. But having the system in place PROTECTS dark and PROTECTS the forum. Period.

As for who gets in trouble, there's a lot around it, but, basically, is generally take someone reporting it to the FCC. There's a quick and dirty webform and takes about two minutes to fill out. All it takes is one banned user to decide "Hey, I want to screw this site over." and blammo.

It doesn't happen to other forums that have more traffic and users. It's not likely to happen here.

And even if it is a good idea, Dark will not do it. Age limits and verification have been denied time and time again. Sorry.

CAV:
As for the "Facebook does it" comment:
An older article, but on-topic: http://thenextweb.com/facebook...safety-experts/

And their official policy: https://www.facebook.com/help/157793540954833

Curious - any users here under 13 want to point me to their account? I'll report it to Facebook and we'll see how long it takes to get shut down.

*most* larger forums have a age verification system ("Enter your birthdate") - I'd be curious if you could point me to one that is larger than DarkSpyro and does not ask for an age upon registration.

JCW555: Once again, other users drag my thread off topic and, instead of deleting the off-topic posts that are reported, my topic gets closed. At the *very* least, it'd be nice if you quoted where I called people "idiots", since you made the statement claiming I had. It's only fair.

So you made a topic to continue why it was closed? Good job, you're annoying as hell.

Larger sites enforce it more since they're more closely watched and have to abide to law. A mid-level random forum like this one wouldn't have such issues, and so likely wouldn't has as much trouble.

And once again, Dark has rejected the idea of age limits or verification systems. I highly doubt it would change now, especially with the average age for users getting younger because of Skylanders users.

I'm saying this now because Dark likely will not reply to this thread with his own answer. I'm sorry.

Quote: Trix Master 100

So you made a topic to continue why it was closed? Good job, you're annoying as hell.

You could always, you know, not read my topics. Sounds like it'd make us both happier.


Quote: CAV

Larger sites enforce it more since they're more closely watched and have to abide to law. A mid-level random forum like this one wouldn't have such issues, and so likely wouldn't has as much trouble.

And once again, Dark has rejected the idea of age limits or verification systems. I highly doubt it would change now, especially with the average age for users getting younger because of Skylanders users.

I'm saying this now because Dark likely will not reply to this thread with his own answer. I'm sorry.

I don't know how likely it is that someone would report the site - or that the FCC would take action. But I see the results of what happens when they *do* take action and I merely wanted to show, yet again, that it *does* happen. Last time this topic came up, there were users saying "this is never enforced" and "this is impossible to enforce" - yet, the article linked in the original OP clearly shows that it *does* get enforced - and the results are pretty bad.

I don't even *agree* with the law. I just don't want to see the site suffer the consequences for failing to abide by it.

And it's okay if Dark doesn't reply - so long as he sees the post. I can't make him reply or change his mind - all I can do is hope he does what he thinks is best for the community to continue.

I don't think the other topic should have been closed. The topic has serious potential for debate. Just because a certain user doesn't like another's opinion (which was well thought out IMO) doesn't mean it deserves a lock.

Yes, dark is a piece of crap. He happens to be the most amateur Admin's I've ever seen. Can we get that out of the way? Can we please just discuss the pro's and con's for or against the forums becoming 13+?

Dark really should spare some light on the issue.

I want to clarify something, since everyone is talking about it.

I don't want to force younger folks away from the site. I don't hate kids and I don't think they automatically devalue the community. In fact, I'd say several of the younger users here are more polite, have better grammar, are more mature, and simply add more value to the community than some of the older users around here.

It's not that *I* don't want anyone here simply because of his or her age.

It's that the law is written in such a way that can get the site shut down and potentially leave dark on the hook for thousands of dollars.

I don't think anyone here wants that (and if you do want the site to be shut down, then I don't understand what you're doing here anyway... seriously, I don't understand why folks hang around things that make them so unhappy). Virtually no one here wants the site shut down and I hope no one here wants dark to end up paying the US Federal Government or his web hosts thousands of dollars over something so very simple.

The Age Verification is clearly in the community's best interests - because, simply, the alternative is that we could lose this community.

I Am Not A Lawyer, but it seems there are two basic things that dark needs to do in order to be fully compliant with the law:

1.) Add a step to the registration process that requires users to enter his/her birth date. Sure, users can lie, but as long as this is there, it seems to absolve the website operator from liability. Tied into this, all current users would need to go in and verify their age.

2.) If any user admits to lying on the Age Verification or if it is discovered that they are under the age of 13, then they need to have their personal information removed from the site, along with their ability to post on the forums. Again, there are ways about this (don't admit to lying, don't say you're under 13) - but as long as dark and his self-appointed moderation staff address these issues as they arise, this should absolve them from liability.

Another alternative would be to shift web-hosting to a service provider outside of the US. Some countries have laws similar to COPPA (the UK has *something*, but I do not know it as well) and there could be other issues (for example, dark could still be found in violation of local UK laws, even if he hosts the site elsewhere) - but removing the site from a US-based server would prevent COPPA from applying (there are other issues ties to that, but I'm not sure that the US government really has much ability to enforce those, nor have I ever read a case where they have).

tl;dr version - No, I don't want underage users forcibly removed from the site - I simply want the site to have every chance it can at surviving and thriving - something that is very much at risk here.

Thank you.

Quote: UncleBob

I want to clarify something, since everyone is talking about it.

I don't want to force younger folks away from the site. I don't hate kids and I don't think they automatically devalue the community. In fact, I'd say several of the younger users here are more polite, have better grammar, are more mature, and simply add more value to the community than some of the older users around here.

It's not that *I* don't want anyone here simply because of his or her age.

It's that the law is written in such a way that can get the site shut down and potentially leave dark on the hook for thousands of dollars.

I don't think anyone here wants that (and if you do want the site to be shut down, then I don't understand what you're doing here anyway... seriously, I don't understand why folks hang around things that make them so unhappy). Virtually no one here wants the site shut down and I hope no one here wants dark to end up paying the US Federal Government or his web hosts thousands of dollars over something so very simple.

The Age Verification is clearly in the community's best interests - because, simply, the alternative is that we could lose this community.

I Am Not A Lawyer, but it seems there are two basic things that dark needs to do in order to be fully compliant with the law:

1.) Add a step to the registration process that requires users to enter his/her birth date. Sure, users can lie, but as long as this is there, it seems to absolve the website operator from liability. Tied into this, all current users would need to go in and verify their age.

2.) If any user admits to lying on the Age Verification or if it is discovered that they are under the age of 13, then they need to have their personal information removed from the site, along with their ability to post on the forums. Again, there are ways about this (don't admit to lying, don't say you're under 13) - but as long as dark and his self-appointed moderation staff address these issues as they arise, this should absolve them from liability.

Another alternative would be to shift web-hosting to a service provider outside of the US. Some countries have laws similar to COPPA (the UK has *something*, but I do not know it as well) and there could be other issues (for example, dark could still be found in violation of local UK laws, even if he hosts the site elsewhere) - but removing the site from a US-based server would prevent COPPA from applying (there are other issues ties to that, but I'm not sure that the US government really has much ability to enforce those, nor have I ever read a case where they have).

tl;dr version - No, I don't want underage users forcibly removed from the site - I simply want the site to have every chance it can at surviving and thriving - something that is very much at risk here.

Thank you.

I'm going to be honest here.

You have a compelling argument and the fact that dark isn't going to listen or respond upsets me. But whatever makes him money!!

I seriously, seriously doubt dark makes much from this website. If he's doing *great*, he's probably making a few meals a month off of it.

Now, if he were to set up some referral links so that anytime some linked to Amazon, GameStop, etc., he got a kick-back... he could probably make some dough then.

but then Eevee would have to go ;_______;

Quote: Jaggedstar

but then Eevee would have to go ;_______;

And me.

Quote: Trix Master 100

Quote: UncleBob

"Open to the public" isn't the same as "owned by the public".

I'm not sucking up to dark by stating facts.

And I didn't say she *had* to like the owner of the forum to stay here. I just don't understand why someone would willingly hang around somewhere where they hate the person who owns the place so much.

I find that a load of bull****. Perhaps some people like it here, because of the community and not the admin?

I agree with this statement. You don't have to love the admin, to love the community. The place could be better than the admin, Bob. Lots of people like it here. It doesn't mean you should leave the site if you're not happy with dark. Who brings the fun to dS? See, I love S&N. Doesn't mean I should leave if I dislike the admin. It's funny you say that.

Quote: Sesshomaru75

I think you're way too worried about the what ifs, bro. It really isn't good for your health, or your reputation.

I'm not sure what made you think I was concerned with what you or any other particular members of this forum think about me or my "reputation". I'm not going to censor myself because someone thinks I'm a big meanie.

Quote: whirlwind fan

I agree with this statement. You don't have to love the admin, to love the community. The place could be better than the admin, Bob. Lots of people like it here. It doesn't mean you should leave the site if you're not happy with dark. Who brings the fun to dS? See, I love S&N. Doesn't mean I should leave if I dislike the admin. It's funny you say that.

Here's the thing though - the community here is very mobile. If one, ten, twenty, or 200 folks wanted to up and leave, they can. Easily. Dark isn't "mobile" - I don't foresee him giving up the site any time soon. So, for the folks that hate and despise him so much, why tie yourself down to a forum where you spend so much energy being negative about things?

I don't know - maybe you think your friends here don't care enough about you to make an effort to stay in touch outside of this forum. Maybe you're worried about having to make new friends on a different forum. Maybe you're really unable to figure out how to use another forum like some folks seem to imply.

Sticking with something you hate so much isn't good for you.

Just a heads up, guys - being allowed to say things inside the rules means one can defend the other's right to say it... But NOT that you can't call out that person for the stuff they're saying.

That means I get mad at the things I damn want to get mad at, thank you very much.

Quote: UncleBob

Quote: Sesshomaru75

I think you're way too worried about the what ifs, bro. It really isn't good for your health, or your reputation.

I'm not sure what made you think I was concerned with what you or any other particular members of this forum think about me or my "reputation". I'm not going to censor myself because someone thinks I'm a big meanie.

Quote: whirlwind fan

I agree with this statement. You don't have to love the admin, to love the community. The place could be better than the admin, Bob. Lots of people like it here. It doesn't mean you should leave the site if you're not happy with dark. Who brings the fun to dS? See, I love S&N. Doesn't mean I should leave if I dislike the admin. It's funny you say that.

Here's the thing though - the community here is very mobile. If one, ten, twenty, or 200 folks wanted to up and leave, they can. Easily. Dark isn't "mobile" - I don't foresee him giving up the site any time soon. So, for the folks that hate and despise him so much, why tie yourself down to a forum where you spend so much energy being negative about things?

I don't know - maybe you think your friends here don't care enough about you to make an effort to stay in touch outside of this forum. Maybe you're worried about having to make new friends on a different forum. Maybe you're really unable to figure out how to use another forum like some folks seem to imply.

Sticking with something you hate so much isn't good for you.

No, I like the site, when things piss me off. I will deal with it. I'm not being negative, I'm just proving a point... That wasn't what I was talking about. When I first joined, dark52 didn't look very into he's job, didn't deal with trolls probably. I completely understand he's busy and stuff. I do believe he's improved on he's job over the years. Look, hunters are leaving/retiring. Already 2. I don't want to leave this site. It's definitely my favs, I have experienced other forums, I always thought this forum was up there. I will be honest, the moderation poor. Really poor.