darkSpyro

This is the first Skylanders game I have properly followed.
I constantly hear people shout about how we aren't getting a lot of info on Trap Team
Did we know more about Swap Force this time last year?

Yup. We sure did.

Yeah, this is very little information compared to the last 2 games. Also bear in mind that a lot of our info has come from the leak last month, we had more info this time the last 2 years that had been officially announced than we have this year.

I would assume it's the same reason as for the no-show at toy fair; holding off due to competition.

We weren't getting enough even if E3 would be the best place for them, but lately it's been picking up the pace at least with the leaks. Not that Swap Force and Giants were too different aside from more press releases, they were getting pretty huge leaks as well but I guess Acti is getting too scared of them with all the NDAs on youtubers.

But don't worry, the complaints are going from 'not enough info for me to pre-order the game' to 'I can't afford these characters,FINE they're all bad anyway TFB doesn't care'(though compared to SF, even if TFB didn't care the toys would still look better).

People are overreacting.

if they keep shut at gamescom2014, its game over im afraid....

Quote: CountMoneyBone

if they keep shut at gamescom2014, its game over im afraid....

We know already that t they will be showing things. Even if they didn't it wouldn't be game over.

The game is over when you run out of figures and even then you just restart the level. Sorry, Trap Team isn't bombing just because the forum's fandom wants it to.

The boards are actually dead; people are even tired of "complaining" (everything I'm reading is vigorous discussions, but maybe I'm good at shutting out unwanted noise). This is a new pre-launch low from where I sit. Pretty sure no one here is actively desiring failure here. We all have a ton of money in these things, that would be counter-productive. Doesn't prevent us from acting like Monday morning quarterbacks.

What we knew on this date last year...

http://web.archive.org/web/201....net/swapforce/

Quote: GhostRoaster

The boards are actually dead; people are even tired of "complaining" (everything I'm reading is vigorous discussions, but maybe I'm good at shutting out unwanted noise). This is a new pre-launch low from where I sit. Pretty sure no one here is actively desiring failure here. We all have a ton of money in these things, that would be counter-productive. Doesn't prevent us from acting like Monday morning quarterbacks.

i did check my gamestop, game and toyrus last week and they still havent bothered to even get trap shadow, doom stone waves here yet. so that is a pretty good sign of how things are losing popularity. now everything that is left is also on sale. i was just lucky that i stumbled over the last few waves, in shops that usually dont to get any skylanders stuff. if its gonna be this struggle to get all new characters, its gonna be even worse next year, that is for sure.

i guess the reason for this happening is that there is to much figures and shops get stuck with overstock. so when the usually shops say no, activision stuff the new waves everywhere else they can. they should take the hint and not release as many figures. the giants had the perfect release of figures, 16 was more than enough of new characters for the game.

i think activision will be in for a shock next year, when they dont sell as much as they think they will.

Quote: GhostRoaster

The boards are actually dead; people are even tired of "complaining" (everything I'm reading is vigorous discussions, but maybe I'm good at shutting out unwanted noise). This is a new pre-launch low from where I sit. Pretty sure no one here is actively desiring failure here. We all have a ton of money in these things, that would be counter-productive. Doesn't prevent us from acting like Monday morning quarterbacks.

Yeah, I'm done complaining. But, I will say this since it was asked, I want the game to succeed, but for me it needs to entice me and my kids. I'm not going to continue collecting figures simply because I have up to this point - I need to have a compelling reason. I'll get the new game (it's starting to look like a sale purchase rather than Day 1) because it is new content for my already large collection. But, for the OP, the feel that we have a lack of information is this:

They are introducing a new "innovation" that they haven't really explained how it all works. We know you can play as some of the enemies. We know there are these new Traps and Trap Masters. But, how many of the traps and masters will we need to fully experience it and how is playing an enemy different from playing one of the 112 figure character options?. Will it be a novelty or something you actually use to great effect. TfB isn't blowing my skirt up with details, it seems like TfB is really hesitant to add spice to the mixture. They flat out admit they wouldn't have added jumping, and only embrace it now because Swap Force made it a thing (and a welcome thing, IMHO). They also probably wouldn't have evolved the engine beyond Wii level if VV hadn't re-written it from scratch. They seem to just be focusing on giving us more things to buy than reasons to buy them, and I suspect that is why there is a lack of info on how trapping works - it is just a gimmick made specifically for giving them more objects to sell rather than altering the gameplay significantly.

@defpally- Huh? they already explained it. 8 traps to get every villain, only one per trap at a time in a level, they're overpowered as heck but have 1-2 minutes of usage followed by around the same time of cooldown; it's an extended Lightcore who can mow down several waves of enemies. Also after the button changes because of jumping I'd take not having that if they can't make you map it somewhere else.

Oh yeah, and the figure avaliability doesn't reflect how the series is doing at all. It's been almost an entire year since SF and they obviously stopped production - heck Brazil never saw the last waves of Giants either because we were 3 months late for them, though in SF the figures started showing up sooner. You judge a game by the sales and not how much is avaliable to buy. But knowing CountMoneyBone's attitude last time I tried it's not worth arguing really.

i have no interest in discussing anything with you ever again either. so that is that...

Well tomorrow and the day after tomorrow we may be getting something so they need to chill

@defpally: I do get a sense of mistrust between TfB and VV over some of the cosmetic changes--going back "old school" on the chompies was interesting--I personally would've put a new spin on it. The number of "reuse" on characters is both comforting and confusing at the same time, whereas many of the elements introduced in SF was mostly new. I'm starting to get a sense that TfB is better at the creative side (I-Wei being a huge part of this and having a greenfield franchise to start was a huge undertaking) and VV is better at technical and frankly marketing execution. We'll see next year, I guess.

I think BitFrost answered you on some of the "required" purchase stuff--don't blame you if you're not up to speed as it's not much.

Totally agreed that we have excuses for purchases, but no REASONS for them. At least I got 256 swapabilities with the Swap Force...which in of itself was huge and provoked experimentation even if the levels didn't necessarily promote it. Activision could also be scratching their head as they seem to be trying very hard not to bang us over the head with "required" purchases....the traps definitely are the anti-thesis of being required...but the odd choice of having trap master only elemental zones is interesting. It's a mix that's perplexing to me, and arbitrary. Wasn't the idea as a skylander in this adventure was to "trap" all of the villains? Apparently, there's no risk/reward in doing so, but visiting all of those elemental zones requires at least 8 trap masters.

Personally for me, the gimmick is a step down from last year. I would've loved actually simply having evil figures and the story side spruced up to support a "us vs them" type of story telling, with online capabilities of having simple teams. Who the heck DOESN'T want an actual Kaos figure? I just don't get it with the traps, other than a way to increase margins.

Maybe others feel the same way and have jumped aboard the "where's the content" discussion that I was prone to do last year.

Quote: SirKev7

This is the first Skylanders game I have properly followed.
I constantly hear people shout about how we aren't getting a lot of info on Trap Team
Did we know more about Swap Force this time last year?

It's being overblown 'a little'...

It's not so much that we have less info at this point, its that this game has the most 'caveats' associated with it.

The previous games have been SUPER straight forward

There was Spyros.

then Giants came along where they were just adding Giants, but they weren't some kind of unlock, just new characters.

Then swap Force came, hey they swap and now on top of element gates there are swap gates...oh and its a next gen engine now so it will look good on your XBOne's and PS4s.

It's been a single thing each time that's been fairly 'obvious', so there WEREN'T any questions.

This time around, there are questions, will the trap crystals work on the next skylander game? Up until recently we had more questions about the elemental gates, etc. We have gotten the same level of info as before, here are some of the figures, this is the new mechanic/concept. Its just more complex than before.
- Unreall

I don't know how to make 40 villains interesting without getting complaints about how traps are too important, though the fact they're cheaper should make up for it. Maybe bigger Heroic Challenges for each of them, but with a twist involving whatever they did to become outlaws in first place (probably their backstories will mention it - X villain who stole from a pottery has to defeat bandits trying to do the same,for example). It's not much but it's not that different from Bonus Missions from SF either.
I don't need any incentive to buy a character that I like because I haven't been collecting everything to begin with (beating SSA with only the starter pack really makes you work for your fun), but it's a thing that only new players and collectors would look twice at a Series 4 unless it's amazingly better than the previous ones - BUT if it's such, it'll be another SF balancing fiasco where only new characters are worth your time and older players feel robbed.

No, I get the whole what you have to buy bit, although it is a bit fuzzy on why you need 40+ traps they are releasing (why get more than one for each element?). What I mean is why do I need to use trapped villains? Do they open a specific gate (cheese way out, but that's what they go with before)?

To get into it more than I planned, things off the top of my head they could have done with trapped villains to make them compelling. Make them true tag team, like you have both on screen and you can switch control (with the other becoming "hollow", but corporeal so they could hold switches/etc., also allowing you to command them to follow you) and make puzzles that require using both to operate two switches/etc. that use certain villains special abilities (think Lost Vikings on this one). Make "combo" attacks where you can fight and setup an attack for your trapped guy to finish off (think Marvel vs. Capcom here), like tee the up with an uppercut and the trapped guy swaps in and bats them out of the air. Make enemies/bosses that are much easier with the right combo of master/villain - like fire and water, use fire to burn then water to douse, or air to knock up and earth to slam them down with gravity (take advantage of the way two elements are opposites, Swap Force could have used some of this). Or even make them not playable, and simply you issue commands to them (go there, stay here, defend me, attack this enemy, defend this spot aggressively or passively, draw attention/taunt, etc.) where part of the strategy is not just fighting, but also leading/directing your trapped guy (and choosing an effective complement to your character) and being an effective team.

The last thing we need is moar playable characters!!1!!111 We have a ridiculous number of options already, that strategy worked ok for Swap Force because of the physical aspect of the magnets in the figure and Frankensteining them together into abominations. And simply making them overpowered general monster crushing machines on a timer isn't it. They already did the overpowered character thing with Giants, and VV had to seriously nerf them in Swap Force (eliminating their one compelling feature) so you didn't just stomp through the game using your previous bought eight Giants.

Edit: Swap Force was a balancing fiasco because they had 320 different playable options to balance. That number is going up a lot more now. Don't expect it to get better. Most fighting games suffer from this and have "tiers" of characters, and most tournaments consist of people using the same four or five characters in the top tier from a 40+ roster. Diablo has a heck of a time balancing SIX classes to make each compelling enough to be a valid choice, and they have the advantage of post release patches that can be designed after they observe players using them.

Totally agreed that the focus shouldn't be so much on the character itself but what can be done in GAMEPLAY to make it more compelling (apart from the moveset). I'm even ok if this focus is only on the new guys. We just can't have a giant-esque figure with a crystal on his back and say "voila".

I think however we risk overthinking it for the "target audience". You're right, I do need to play Diablo.

Quote: defpally

No, I get the whole what you have to buy bit, although it is a bit fuzzy on why you need 40+ traps they are releasing (why get more than one for each element?). What I mean is why do I need to use trapped villains? Do they open a specific gate (cheese way out, but that's what they go with before)?

Someone implied Villain only areas at the very first videos, but I think it was just speculation. So as far as we know, no, Villains are just extended Lightcores. You don't need 40 traps, you need 8 - one for each element, and you can swap the villains inside them around in the hub. The different trap sculpts are probably for bragging rights, telling traps apart or just for looking pretty.

And I know fighting games. If they make a character useless instead of just being too challenging(think S1 Chop Chop in SSA) to be popular, it's betraying the fanbase. VV didn't care and outright lied about the fact they'd keep the speed stats consistent - nope, only their characters aren't horribly slow so why bother with anyone else specially in Nightmare, and there are no hats or charms strong enough to solve the issue. I haven't played Diablo though so I don't know how difficult balancing is in beat-em-ups in general.

One thought about the lack of info...it seems to be assumed that Activision's statement that they were holding back because 'competitive advantage' met that they didn't want DI or others stealing their ideas. Perhaps it wasn't about that at all. Activision knew the release date Guardians of the Galaxy and subsequent DI 2.0 release a month before their release. If they released too much info early, it would get drowned out by all the GotG hype and such. It may all just be marketing. We know everything about DI 2.0, at least the big stuff it seems, so Acti now swoops in with Skylander news, hoping to push out your DI cravings a bit.

DI 2.0 kinda comes out at a bad time. Yes, they beat Skylanders to the market, but they come out right around the kids are still in 'new school year' mode, and too early to catch the Christmas market very well. However, they could do really well, and drain parent pocket books before they have a chance to consider skylanders. Then again, there is always Christmas. But I'm rambling now.

One question though, does it really matter to you if you know everything a 2 weeks before release, or 3 months before release? I understand the want to know now, but will you really change your purchase habits in the end?

...And Diablo is already pre-ordered.

I don't even preorder, so no. I get it usually one or two months AFTER release because Brazil takes forever to get it in stores and Ebay obviously can't ship it in less than that time. Not to mention, since I don't really care for a 100% unless it's cheap, I can take notes in the meantime of what I'll buy after the Starter Pack so I just get what I actually want.

But with the marketing, yeah it's a guessing game. Do you avoid the hype of another franchise, but risk people losing interest? Or do you release it anyway in the same window and hope people will be looking for it then?
Hey at least Acti isn't choosing between rushing for Christmas or actually finishing the game like it happens sometimes. When it comes to getting the game done they have plenty of time with the two teams.

Bitfrost, I totally forgot about how they hosed both the communication and execution of character stats. I agree it's a balancing act but they nerfed older characters to a detriment to the fans and to the game itself. Good point--and I do think TfB is better equipped at finding this balance, although I think they tend to still be too generous (and VV perhaps too stingy).

I am a bit perplexed as to the number of actual observed changes we've seen this time around. I'm not sure if it's customary to make changes that late in the game, but it doesn't sit well with me.

They really need the elaborate on Trapmasters, I only know 3 things about them

1. They can destroy Traptanium Crystals

2. They do bonus damage to trappable villains

3. They can open their own lazy elemental gates so people will buy them

At launch, we knew nothing about their abilities at all, and the information we have now is still kind of vague or lacking

Isn't that enough? Given that the poster is light on new cores, there should be less distraction this time with too many new characters.

To be honest, I think WBB is kinda right on that people overreact.
But on the other hand, recently, I do agree with the others too.


Comparing the information we knew about Swap Force, around this date with Trap Team, we knew more about Swap Force.

Now I don't say I like it that Info is given fast. I rather like to wait. Eh, my opinion.