darkSpyro

Ok so your problem with scalpers is that they take stock from people who go to the store to look for it right? So then in essence you hate yourself too because you buy them for friends and take stock from people who go to the store and look for it.

*edit* I apologize I had quoted the portion of your post but the page reloaded and killed my comment.

Quote: defpally

YEvery time a parent can't find a figure that their kid wants for their birthday and resorts to a scalper, every time they take their kid to the store and they don't have anything new, they and their kid get a little more frustrated and a little closer to saying "screw this". High demand does build excitement, to a point. There is a breaking point where people just give up. Marketing is a precarious balance between getting enough to the shelves, but not overstocking where retailers and customers lose interest. They don't need Joe Trailer Park cleaning off the shelves, then returning a bunch of figures if he can't sell them at a profit mucking with the equation. They don't need grandmas looking for little Johnny's birthday gift on Amazon thinking $40 from Cindy Beans is the going rate for one of these little pieces of plastic.

On the surface...sure. But outside of when a figure first gets released....I don't think this has played out as often as the previous entries. That of course may be because everyone said "screw this" because of htf items in the previous entries, but somehow I doubt it. Excessive supply is generally the trend in Swap Force so scalpers not making a huge impact on this entry (be it because of excessive production, reduced interest, or both).

However, I must say that the chase items on this entry is in much less supply than the blurples...so prices are skyrocketing. Evil scalpers, or true supply/demand? I'd argue that when the later makes it unprofitable for scalpers is when they stop doing it. Stores have increasingly instituted policies on preventing mass purchases. That presents an inconvenience as someone will have to shop at more places--again it's all risk / reward vs time needed.

So, do we need scalper insurance? Government mandates to minimize sales to individuals? (I know you know I'm being sarcastic here, but we're all just describing market forces at work--at least as much as government entities allow it to happen). In my mind, this is all on a continuing trend line---it's never perfect...but trust me I don't think Activision is EVER wanting to present a situation where someone who wants a figure can't get it--that would be just bad business---it's all about profits for them you know. They aren't doing this for the betterment of mankind.

Quote: UncleBob

What's the difference between buying extra figures as a favor to a friend and buying extra figures to sell on eBay?

Ethics. In both cases the figures have been purchased by legitimate means, but where they end up is different and may impact someone else differently. People sympathize more if someone is buying for a relative, relative's child or a friend who can't make it due to the fact that it stops there and someone who should have one can. The other scenario is just another means to an end with the buyer becoming the middle man to inflate the price for their own pockets. Capitalism at its finest.

In all respect to it I am getting more in between both scenarios now. While I get for relatives, I may at some point take my figures I don't want that are still sealed and sell them on ebay if I find I don't want some of them and their values for most have climbed. Just like anything else there. If I want to sell my sealed granite crusher for 80 bucks, or a target exclusive whirlwind for 50 or a polar whirlwind for 30 I will. I kept them in that new condition and I know someone else will keep them just as respectable as I did for the price. Sometimes you have to look at it that way. Not everyone wants to make a quick buck from their items, but want them to be treated in a way like a collector would. The value of the item makes sense to part with in getting that much back for keeping them that way.

Scalping can be bad in a sense of all those in it for quick money, but I think activision has made it easier for everyone to get figures and the demand is falling on this game. Compared to giants last year not many people are really interested in swap force and it is much more expensive due to the swaplanders and the deals are low this time. Except for toysrus ones.

Scalping is what it is. I stand by the saying "Don't hate the player. Hate the game" on this issue. While I personally would like to see such re-selling activity stop (especially with, of all things, children's toys), my guess is that most "scalpers" are younger folks college aged and younger...and they are just looking to score a few extra bucks for the things that kids spend money on. If the scalper is an adult, they must really need the money because there's no way this stuff is that lucrative.

*shrugs*

Not really my idea of a group that needs to be scoffed at. That all said, I do everything in my power to buy each new wanted character at retail at the store when it is released to avoid the re-sell market. So by those actions alone I guess I'm indirectly showing my lack of support for scalping....Just keepin on keepin' on. No need to get angry about it. We're all spinnin' on this earth together and there's gonna be a million other reasons for me to lose my cool (Hello Target Ad with Wave 3...LOL).

My biggest condolences are for late-comers to the game that want to collect for SSA and the lack of reposes for the chosen few that all regs on this board know about by now. That's a bummer situation. Hopefully Skylanders 4 will re-release some of them for you folks.

Yes, ethics is the reason. When I've bought figures for a friend, it has been as a favor, not to extract profit from him. I picked up most of Wave 4 for GhostRoaster, but why? To save his wife a trip to the store, he has been out of town and she would have had to run from store to store or across town - so I saved him some gas, and a result he gave me a little bit more to cover my time and gas since I saved him those things. I don't do it to profit. I do it because he is a friend that I enjoy meeting up with for lunch to talk over Skylanders. It also saves him Honey Points by not having to have his wife do the hunting, I know all too well the eye rolls a wife can give over hunting Skylanders.

And it isn't just for a friend, I have had extras of fairly rare figures in the past (usually from online orders, then finding one with a good paint job in the store). I just don't go buy a bunch with the intention to sell, if I pick up an extra for a friend, I contact them from the store and if they can't make it I might help them out. I just last week sold one to a parent I ran into at TRU I had seen many times in the past there. Her son mentioned he didn't have it, I said I had an extra so she met me at the store the next day. I charged her the retail price plus a couple dollars to round it off to an even amount and cover having to drive back to the store the next day. I could have EASILY gotten $80+ for that figure on EBay, but ethics told me I should help out a fellow parent that wasn't able to get that figure. I did the same with a parent on my son's baseball team last year, and it made her day and her son's that she only paid retail for figures going for much more than that on EBay. I don't have a problem with people selling figures, even for a minor profit, I just abhor people that scoop them up with the intention to scalp 300% or more profit. And as I said before for chase or unavailable figures, all bets are off - I'm just talking about current run figures for the current game.

No, we don't need scalper insurance. We don't need anti-scalping laws for Skylanders like we currently have in this state for necessities like gas. But, as a comparison, there is already an established dim view on excessive profit taking in retail. They clearly won't take action over toys, but the idea is the same - you aren't allowed to jack up the price to unreasonable levels simply because you can get someone to pay it. I've always felt stores, in general, on popular items like Skylanders should have a general two per unique item per person policy. It's not a silver bullet, but at least it makes a good attempt at spreading the love around. If someone walks up with a cart full of the same popular item, tell him two and you're done. Some stores and most online retailers already do this. At Best Buy, you can be banned and have your Gamer's Club revoked if you buy more than three of the same item within a particular timeframe - it's explicitly stated in their policy. Gamestop cancels orders and forwards people to their wholesale bulk order arm. Another more challenging policy to implement that would help is to track returns and limit people that are using the store as a wholesaler. Sorry, if you are going to speculate you have to participate in the risk of holding inventory.

And yeah, the diminishing scalper impact this time is mainly due to overstocking. I worry this action by Activision is going to have a negative impact on the franchise. We've seen the massive numbers of backstock they have of certain things at TRU. I wonder how much of this is in part due to them being unable to judge appropriate stocking based on how things moved for the first two games. Going to the store and not finding a figure you want is bad, but going to the store and seeing 50 untouched triple packs is also bad. The eventually have to clearance those things out, and it makes them cut back on future orders. I'm wondering if Sheepwreck Island has been stocked in very low levels simply because there are TONS of Tower of Time hanging on the pegs. Wondering if Triple Packs 3,4,5 & 6 will remain very uncommon since 1 & 2 aren't selling. Judging stocking is such an artform.

Quote: defpally

No, we don't need scalper insurance. We don't need anti-scalping laws for Skylanders like we currently have in this state for necessities like gas. But, as a comparison, there is already an established dim view on excessive profit taking in retail. They clearly won't take action over toys, but the idea is the same - you aren't allowed to jack up the price to unreasonable levels simply because you can get someone to pay it. I've always felt stores, in general, on popular items like Skylanders should have a general two per unique item per person policy. It's not a silver bullet, but at least it makes a good attempt at spreading the love around. If someone walks up with a cart full of the same popular item, tell him two and you're done. Some stores and most online retailers already do this. At Best Buy, you can be banned and have your Gamer's Club revoked if you buy more than three of the same item within a particular timeframe - it's explicitly stated in their policy. Gamestop cancels orders and forwards people to their wholesale bulk order arm. Another more challenging policy to implement that would help is to track returns and limit people that are using the store as a wholesaler. Sorry, if you are going to speculate you have to participate in the risk of holding inventory.

I'm in complete agreement here. If a store wants to make sure they sell to the most customers, they can take action to limit quantities they sell to specific customers. Agree on the return policy as well, which can also be abused in order to avoid shipping costs. However, the return policy would be difficult to enforce if someone purchases in cash all the time without the use of a club card.

Really, I think limiting orders resolves quite a bit of what people seem to have a problem with. If a scalper has to to hit 7 stores in order to acquire 14 Scratches, then he can't clean out any one store (by himself) and will have the added cost of time and travel, cutting in to his profits. That would get some scalpers out of the game. It could scalper prices could go up, but not likely since price is primarily based on demand.

I still hold that overall supply in stores would not change much for the vast majority of customers though.

Stores track returns through driver's licenses/ID you usually have to show to do one. If they have a record of making lots of returns of the same item, or are trying to return many of the same item they can disallow it. Tough to police and track, but they already do some of that now to prevent fraud/abuse.

And limiting quantities isn't perfect either, as you noted. Many times they will return and buy more, or have acquaintances help them, but it is a speed bump. Again, not a "silver bullet".

The goal is simply to agree with some common sense changes they could make (and some already do). Stores want to sell to lots of customers. They would much rather make 20 people happy than 1 person really happy and 19 unhappy. It isn't just about the sale you make today, it's about the sale you want to make tomorrow, too. You will never purge scalping, it's in human nature - all you can do is put up some hurdles to limit the value of it, especially when you consider sellers have to also deal with EBay overhead and packaging/shipping costs. Most people aren't going to do it if they have to go to lengths to get more to sell, but they will if they can just throw a pile in their cart, pay and walk out. There will always be some people that would 150 foot hand-over-hand crawl across a 60 gauge Hemp-Jute line with a blister factor of 12 suspended a full 40 feet over a solid British acre of Old Growth Connecticut Valley Thorn Bushes for a dollar - you will never completely stop that (a Simpsons reference for the older crowd).

Quote: defpally

Yes, ethics is the reason. When I've bought figures for a friend, it has been as a favor, not to extract profit from him. I picked up most of Wave 4 for GhostRoaster, but why? To save his wife a trip to the store, he has been out of town and she would have had to run from store to store or across town - so I saved him some gas, and a result he gave me a little bit more to cover my time and gas since I saved him those things. I don't do it to profit. I do it because he is a friend that I enjoy meeting up with for lunch to talk over Skylanders. It also saves him Honey Points by not having to have his wife do the hunting, I know all too well the eye rolls a wife can give over hunting Skylanders.

So, you are under the belief that it's less ethical to buy multiple figures to resell in exchange for extra money than it is to buy multiple figures to resell in exchange for "favors". The tangible, end of transaction, dollar amount is bad, but the intangible "now this person will fell indebted to me" is okay.

Quote: UncleBob

Quote: defpally

Yes, ethics is the reason. When I've bought figures for a friend, it has been as a favor, not to extract profit from him. I picked up most of Wave 4 for GhostRoaster, but why? To save his wife a trip to the store, he has been out of town and she would have had to run from store to store or across town - so I saved him some gas, and a result he gave me a little bit more to cover my time and gas since I saved him those things. I don't do it to profit. I do it because he is a friend that I enjoy meeting up with for lunch to talk over Skylanders. It also saves him Honey Points by not having to have his wife do the hunting, I know all too well the eye rolls a wife can give over hunting Skylanders.

So, you are under the belief that it's less ethical to buy multiple figures to resell in exchange for extra money than it is to buy multiple figures to resell in exchange for "favors". The tangible, end of transaction, dollar amount is bad, but the intangible "now this person will fell indebted to me" is okay.

That's ok. I'm mowing his lawn over the summer to pay him back.

Just show some patience guys & scalpers can't affect you. I didn't storm out to get any of wave 4 except for the store exclusives (ESS & Nitro Freeze Blade) in March. I went on vacation out of the country for a week not thinking about Skylanders and today wound up ordering pretty much all the wave 4 core figures from Toysrus.com for 20% off using the FRIEND20 code & got free shipping. I know I missed out on the 3 for $20 deal last week, but I'm perfectly content having bought my Punk Shock, Fryno, Scratch, & Springtime Trigger Happy (3 of them in Easter packaging) below retail without having to actively hunt in stores & do the regular price impulse buy...or padding the pockets of a scalper.

Quote: BahamutBreaker

Melvimbe, you seem to have invested an inordinate amount of time and energy into a thread about scalping, while claiming that you aren't concerned about scalping.

Odd.

Not really. I find the topic interesting. That and I recently sprained my knee and therefore have some extra time on my hands for idle conversation.

Quote: defpally

Ok, I had no real problem with that until you went there. WHY ARE WE WORRIED ABOUT SKYLANDERS WHEN THERE ARE HUNGRY PEOPLE IN THE WORLD??!?!??!

Because my mind is capable of dealing with more than one thing at a time of varying levels of importance. I'm on a Skylanders forum so you just hear about one of them.

Sorry, I'm just now seeing this. You're taking this out of context. My comment was in regard to you're suggestion that I lacked sufficient concern for people who couldn't find their skylanders. I wasn't saying that you shouldn't have concern.

Quote: defpally

My kids learned that too, they don't get Skylanders when I get them, I still have some Wave 1 stuff they haven't gotten yet put up. Why do you think your kids are special snowflakes in this regard? Most parents don't cater to every whim of their children. He gets them when he accomplishes something. And he doesn't go hunting with me, because the best time to find the figures is almost always when he is in school.

Again, not sure where you're getting that I think my kids are snowflakes. Point was that there was a positive to not being able to get what you want when you want it, just using my kids as an example.

Quote: defpally

And for the record, I've NEVER missed an initial release of a new Skylanders figure I wanted, I make sure I get what I want - and I help friends find them as well. So none of this affects me personally at all. I'm more interested in the parent that doesn't work right near a TRU like I do with a flexible schedule that I can go check when I need to. The hunt is fine for me, I typically am able to swing it. The hunt isn't fun for the parent that works across town from TRU and has to be at work before most stores open or get off after they close. It sucks for them and their kids.

Quote: GhostRoaster

That's ok. I'm mowing his lawn over the summer to pay him back.

Depending on the size of his lawn, that's like a $20-$50 value there!

If you have that much of a problem with scalpers I guess they should just do a one of each unique item per customer, or maybe a limit on certain returns they take back. Either way the big box stores must not see this as a big enough problem to address or they would. We can discuss it all we want but honestly they decide what the problem is and how to address it.

Quote: UncleBob

Quote: defpally

Yes, ethics is the reason. When I've bought figures for a friend, it has been as a favor, not to extract profit from him. I picked up most of Wave 4 for GhostRoaster, but why? To save his wife a trip to the store, he has been out of town and she would have had to run from store to store or across town - so I saved him some gas, and a result he gave me a little bit more to cover my time and gas since I saved him those things. I don't do it to profit. I do it because he is a friend that I enjoy meeting up with for lunch to talk over Skylanders. It also saves him Honey Points by not having to have his wife do the hunting, I know all too well the eye rolls a wife can give over hunting Skylanders.

So, you are under the belief that it's less ethical to buy multiple figures to resell in exchange for extra money than it is to buy multiple figures to resell in exchange for "favors". The tangible, end of transaction, dollar amount is bad, but the intangible "now this person will fell indebted to me" is okay.

Really, Unclebob? Really?

You know some of us do favors for people and never expect anything in return. We do it just to be nice because they are a friend.

You have a problem with helping out friends, or do you expect quid pro quo from everyone you interact with?

I think his statement was more to the point that you see it as evil when doing it for money but perfectly acceptable when you do it for friends. Now I get it but honestly you can't have it both ways, it's either bad to remove stock of figures that you yourself are not going to use or it's acceptable to do so.

This debate is more than moot anyway, many of you have said that for chase or rare figures all bets are off but who is it that determines rare? If it is in the eyes of the beholder it is fairly easy to justify any purchase as rare (I've never seen this figure here before) so giving in that it's ok for any rare figure to be scalped is basically saying that you are ok with it for any figure.

Quote: gta1134

I think his statement was more to the point that you see it as evil when doing it for money but perfectly acceptable when you do it for friends. Now I get it but honestly you can't have it both ways, it's either bad to remove stock of figures that you yourself are not going to use or it's acceptable to do so.

It can absolutely be had "both ways".

Hey buddy, I'm at the store and they have these. Oh really, that's cool, can you get me one so I don't have to drive over there? Sure, no problem.

is worlds different from

Hey, they have this new figure, I'm going to buy 8 of them to sell on EBay for 4 times their value.

If anyone considers those equivalent, in impact on stock or ethics, please let me know so we can start using smaller words.

Quote: defpally

Really, Unclebob? Really?

You know some of us do favors for people and never expect anything in return. We do it just to be nice because they are a friend.

You have a problem with helping out friends, or do you expect quid pro quo from everyone you interact with?

I'm not one to say that there is no such thing as a selfless act - but we're talking about buying cheap plastic toys, not pulling someone from a burning car. It might be picking up figures so someone will mow your lawn, so they'll help you out later if they find something, or just that you feel good for helping a friend (and really, aren't our friendships worth more than money?) - but you're getting *something* out of it. Don't pretend like you're a saint because you bought 5 hard to find figures for your friend, then complain when the kid in line behind you wasn't able to get a figure because some dirty "scalper" bought them all.

The "anti-scalper" brigade always tries to use the "it makes it harder to find the figures" excuse... but it really falls flat when those same people are buying multiple figures. It's not about making it harder to find the figures, it's about making it harder for you and your friends to find stuff - after all, you plainly stated you don't mind buying multiples for yourself/your friends.

Hey Derp, the lawn mowing thing was a joke. GhostRoaster isn't going to be mowing my yard.

And no, I'm not getting "something" out of it. That isn't the definition of being a saint, it's the definition of being a friend. Yes, we are talking about little plastic toys, and helping a friend so he doesn't have to drive to the store is a very minor thing to which I would consider myself petty were I to expect anything in return for it.

You kind of destroyed your own rebuttal by pointing out that we are talking about very trivial things like toys. And thusly claiming I must be getting "something" out of it doesn't make sense. If I were to pull him out of a burning car, then I might consider a mowing of my yard. As it stands though, if he were to never ever help me out in any way I would not consider myself at a disadvantage. Because they are just toys.

Scalpers are just like buying a figure for a friend! Except you don't know them. And they pay you a lot more money. And you have a lot of "friends". But it is THE SAME! From henceforth "being a scalper" shall be known as "being a good friend". Because stuff. The profit margin shall be known as "friendship points". And yes, this is sarcasm.

I'd say stop being petty and trying to make hay out of minor little details taken out of context or think I might be able to make my point with you in such a way that might change your mind, but yeah I know (*wink*).

Didn't mean to raise a ruckus, everyone knows a wink at the end of my statements are to be construed as "just kidding". But hey--defpally---if you do need help, I can repay in kind...cause that's what friends do.

Quote: GhostRoaster

Didn't mean to raise a ruckus, everyone knows a wink at the end of my statements are to be construed as "just kidding". But hey--defpally---if you do need help, I can repay in kind...cause that's what friends do.

Well, you remember what we talked about the other day at lunch in reference to this? I think the wink is enough in most cases, I don't think many others were confused. I know I wasn't.

Quote: defpally

Quote: GhostRoaster

Didn't mean to raise a ruckus, everyone knows a wink at the end of my statements are to be construed as "just kidding". But hey--defpally---if you do need help, I can repay in kind...cause that's what friends do.

Well, you remember what we talked about the other day at lunch in reference to this? I think the wink is enough in most cases, I don't think many others were confused. I know I wasn't.

You guys know each other in real life?

I think your issue is that you hate scalpers for making money from the toys they are selling where many peoples arguments are that they are taking stock away from other people. The end result in the eyes of the large part is that taking stock is taking stock, you justify it by saying its for a friend and they justify it by saying they are only making money. Which case is right or if any case is right depends on who you are.

Name calling? That's what you're resorting to?

I know it was a joke (thus my reply to him earlier where I winked back). I guess you're right - sometimes a wink isn't enough.

I threw out a couple of examples of ways where one might get something in return for picking up figures for a friend. Lawn mowing was mentioned because it was mentioned in the thread.

Again - the complaint that "scalpers" take figures off the shelves from legitimate customers who are looking for them falls flat when you, too, are taking multiple figures off the shelves, preventing legitimate customers who are looking for them from getting them. Just because you can justify it (just like a "scalper" can justify it), doesn't change the end result - poor Timmy's Grandmother goes to the store, Freeze Blade isn't there, so she has to go online and buy from a "scalper" or something.

Can't we all just get along?

Quote: gta1134

I think your issue is that you hate scalpers for making money from the toys they are selling where many peoples arguments are that they are taking stock away from other people. The end result in the eyes of the large part is that taking stock is taking stock, you justify it by saying its for a friend and they justify it by saying they are only making money. Which case is right or if any case is right depends on who you are.

LoL, okie dokie. You just didn't read at all now did you? I gave several examples where I specifically did not seek profit where I could have done so, and in some cases, significant profit. But now I'm jealous of the people that make money when I have specifically not attempted to do so? Or did I just misread your run-on sentences?

And Unclebob, "derp" is most often less of something you use to name call someone than something you indicate about how what they said is "stupid" or "derp"y. Probably shouldn't have capitalized it, sorry. Like, for example, if I were to use it here to relate to our friend gta1134's post, I would say that his post sounds like a big "derp", or something that someone with a traumatic head injury would say. It really isn't used as a proper name. It is a fairly common word used in Internet slang. I'm not saying you are a moron or a "derp", I'm just saying that your comment bears a striking resemblance to one that a moron would feel comfortable saying. Just picture someone standing in front of you saying "deeeeeeeerrrrrrrrpppp" and that just about covers it. I hope this comforts your fears of me calling you names, as I certainly wouldn't resort to that. I apologize if you feel I was calling you a bad name.

Look, I get it. Be it buying multiples of figures, resorting to name calling, or attacking people you know virtually nothing about over the internet. As long as you can justify it to yourself, then you're okay with it.

That's how virtually everyone is. S'all good.

Look, I get it. Be it buying multiples of figures, getting pedantic over minor quibbles and phrasing, taking things wildly out of context, taking even minor slights to moderators and making dubious assumptions about others you know virtually nothing about over the internet. As long as you can justify it to yourself, then you're okay with it.

Two can play that projection game. And yes, S'all good.

I get that you support scalping. You've made no secret that you sell them, and at a profit - you posted asking about it, and made clear you weren't going to sell them for retail. You made no secret that you buy multiples when they first come out for "friends" - yes, I remember you doing that for Ninjini, for example. You steadfastly defended scalpers like CindyBeans and others. It's how you justify it to yourself. When you see me post that buying several figures for profit is different from buying an extra for a friend that asks you to do so, it rings your bell - because to you ALL of that is okay. And apparently you AREN'T okay with my moral compass on this being located in a different place than your own. You seem to need me to feel my friends are indebted to me for being a friend. You need me agree what I've done is the same as scalping.

I'm not trying to convince you, I'm not trying to convince ANYONE, I'm simply stating my opinion. I'm under no false impression anyone will change their mind.

ha. I haven't sold a single figure at a profit. Heh.
Yes, I posted about selling a few of my extras that I had gathered. Guess what, they didn't sell. I made a half-hearted effort because I wasn't really interested in selling them. You sure got me there, didn't you? Not sure what specific thing around Ninjini you're talking about, but yes, I had two co-workers that I was picking up figures for for a period of time, the first through most of SSA and Giants, the second during part of Giants. Both folks' seemed to tune out of the game, leaving me with some extras (which explains some of the extras I had gathered).

But, more to your point - I don't care what you think and feel. I just have no issues pointing out the hypocrisy when someone whines about "X", when they're part of the reason "X" is happening.

I don't mind that you're picking up figures for friends. Likewise, I don't mind if CindyBeans or whatever eBay seller you have a crush on this week is buying/selling multiple figures. I just get my little plastic toys and play my game. Come a year from now, I won't *still* be harping on something that happened on the internet roughly a year ago that had no real effect on my life.

Another scalping thread with lots of drama comes to an end.

Quote: UncleBob

Come a year from now, I won't *still* be harping on something that happened on the internet roughly a year ago that had no real effect on my life.

Because you are the KING of letting things go, amirite? What was that thing about pointing out hypocrisy where you see it ...

Some people are just really good at repeatedly being hypocritical on a recurring basis.

Maybe there's a round or two remaining here. I'll get the popcorn.

Get ya popcorn here! Buy 2 and get a coupon for a limited edition Doom Stone!

*eats popcorn* This is gonna get food!

Quote: UncleBob

Some people are just really good at repeatedly being hypocritical on a recurring basis.

Yes, yes they are. And when you point out the errors in their logic they just keep right on going, like the Energizer Bunny.

By the way, you won't mind if I hang on to that quote and the one below for next time someone isn't instantly trusted without any evidence and you demand they get an apology, do you? What can I say, I'm a fan of irony.

Quote: UncleBob

Come a year from now, I won't *still* be harping on something that happened on the internet roughly a year ago that had no real effect on my life.

You mean the next time it happens all over again? Sure. because that quote won't apply. But please, do hang on to it and pull it out over and over again. I'm sure it'll prove some kind of point you're trying to make to yourself.

For someone that claims to feel the need to point out faulty logic, you sure don't seem to see it.

You say you won't "harp" on things that happen on the Internet that have no effect on your real life.

Yet you STILL demand apologies from people that so much as doubt someone making a claim with no proof, over and over and over. All because people didn't believe you over Molten Hot Dog ... over a year ago. You just did it on the Red Dune Bug thread, even the guy that posted didn't mind people wanting some evidence.

And then you say others are hypocritical. I am starting to think you may not know what that word means. Because the thing you keep going back to on me is me pointing out picking up a figure for a friend at no profit isn't the same as buying a bunch to resell for big profit.

What you lack in logic and common sense, you certainly make up for in persistence. I figured when you made the statement about how these are all just toys and none of this really matters to you you would then walk away to prove your point. Then when it gets pointed out strange of a claim that is when you never walk away you still come back for some more.

I'm anxiously awaiting your next gem that is inevitably coming, you know, because it's just toys and all on the Internet and you don't care. You're just here to point out hypocrisy. By demonstration of it, apparently.

Quote: defpally

Yet you STILL demand apologies from people that so much as doubt someone making a claim with no proof, over and over and over. All because people didn't believe you over Molten Hot Dog ... over a year ago. You just did it on the Red Dune Bug thread, even the guy that posted didn't mind people wanting some evidence.

Funny. Between the two of us, you're the only one who keeps bringing up the Molten Hot Dog thread, over and over again. I'm sorry you're losing sleep over it, but I'm not.

The most amusing this is, we get new members joining our little group and posting useful information. When they get attacked, I stand up for them. And you're trying to make me out to be the bad guy because of this. I don't know if your issue is with new people joining or people posting useful information because you're more interested in junk threads... but I'm not sure *why* any sane person would be against standing up for new people who are taking time out of their lives to share their information with us.

Quote: UncleBob

Funny. Between the two of us, you're the only one who keeps bringing up the Molten Hot Dog thread, over and over again. I'm sorry you're losing sleep over it, but I'm not.

The most amusing this is, we get new members joining our little group and posting useful information. When they get attacked, I stand up for them. And you're trying to make me out to be the bad guy because of this. I don't know if your issue is with new people joining or people posting useful information because you're more interested in junk threads... but I'm not sure *why* any sane person would be against standing up for new people who are taking time out of their lives to share their information with us.

You vastly over estimate your impact on me. I don't lose sleep over ANYTHING on the forums. I just happen to have a really good memory, and I read posts instead of skimming them looking for stuff I can get all offended about out of context - like some. It's kind of why you have such a rough time debating against me, because I remember things you have previously said and you can't just conveniently leave those details out.

So, I keep bringing up the Molten Hot Dog thing and I'm losing sleep over it, but you are just being a helpful soul for all those new people out there when you keep bringing it up? If it was no big deal at all to you, then why are you so quick to run to everyone's defense? Because they aren't as "resilient" as you? Ha, good one.

Again with the projection stuff? The whole thread you have been trying to project negative things on to me that are just your incredibly negative perspective. Not once have I attacked a new member for not providing photo evidence (although a couple years back I and others did give a guy with a record of scamming other users a hard time for a false claim of having seen Thumpback). Pull up every single one of them. I HAVE thanked them and pointed out that it would bolster their case if they provided one, as well as pointing out that as a new user they should not expect instant trust. If that isn't being helpful and supportive to new people, then I don't know what is. In fact, that's what almost every single person does, that's why every time you claim foul over this you get zero support. You earn respect and trust, not demand it. And it is the perspective of the overwhelming majority of this forum. Perhaps you should re-evaluate your desire to continue to hang around since we are all such horrible, negative people. Go out and find your tribe instead of trying to judge everyone else for not adhering to your strict perspective.

UncleBob, it's really time for you to stop posting now. Actually, that time came and went long ago. But since you missed that signal, and the dozen or so of the same signal that followed, I'll just pretend that it's now time for you to stop posting; maybe you won't miss this signal.

Quote: defpally

You vastly over estimate your impact on me. I don't lose sleep over ANYTHING on the forums. I just happen to have a really good memory, and I read posts instead of skimming them looking for stuff I can get all offended about out of context - like some.

Do me a favor - use that really good memory to tell me how many different threads *you* bring up the Molten Hot Dog thing vs. the number of threads where I brought it up. Should be easy for someone with your vastly superior memory.

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It's kind of why you have such a rough time debating against me, because I remember things you have previously said and you can't just conveniently leave those details out.

Dude... don't make me read stuff like this while I'm drinking. I laughed so hard milk came out of my nose. Not cool.

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So, I keep bringing up the Molten Hot Dog thing and I'm losing sleep over it, but you are just being a helpful soul for all those new people out there when you keep bringing it up?

Not sure what you're confused over, but I'm not the one that keeps bringing up the Molten Hot Dog thing... so this statement makes ZERO sense.

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If it was no big deal at all to you, then why are you so quick to run to everyone's defense? Because they aren't as "resilient" as you? Ha, good one.

Because I'm tired of a few sour-puss jerks running away members of this forum. There's about 3-5 people who can't help but attack new folks providing information on this forum on a regular basis. *That* annoys me.

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Again with the projection stuff? The whole thread you have been trying to project negative things on to me that are just your incredibly negative perspective. Not once have I attacked a new member for not providing photo evidence (although a couple years back I and others did give a guy with a record of scamming other users a hard time for a false claim of having seen Thumpback). Pull up every single one of them.

I don't need to. Because I never, once, said that *you* attacked a new member for not providing photo evidence (in fact, this "photo evidence" statement just came up in your post). Perhaps if you really spent the time reading my posts instead of skimming them, you would have realized I never said "defpally is a big meanie that runs off new members by being a jerk."

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I HAVE thanked them and pointed out that it would bolster their case if they provided one, as well as pointing out that as a new user they should not expect instant trust. If that isn't being helpful and supportive to new people, then I don't know what is. In fact, that's what almost every single person does, that's why every time you claim foul over this you get zero support. You earn respect and trust, not demand it.

I've never told anyone on this forum that they have to implicitly trust anyone. Ever.
I have, however, stated many times, that blind mistrust is as dangerous as blind faith. I don't know what part of the country you're from, but in my neck of the woods, there's a lot of deer that dart out on the road. We locals often blink our headlights as a "head's up" to slow down and watch for deer when we see them on the side of the road (as they often run in groups). Just because I have never met, nor will I likely meet, the random stranger I'm passing going the opposite direction, when they blink their headlights, I'm going to move my foot over to the brake pedal and be alert. It's because I'm not immediately suspicious of every person I meet. This is my message for those on this forum.

Have you ever noticed (and I'm sure you have, since you have a great memory and seem to spend a lot of time reading my posts) that I never chime in to defend the OP in one of these situation *until* he/she is proven correct (unless I happen to also have advance knowledge that what they're saying is true)? It's because I don't have blind faith in random posters. But, in that same situation, I don't have blind mistrust and thus don't go attacking them either. I know the situation will play out and they'll be proven wrong - in which case, they likely had no intentions of staying around anyway - or they'll be proven right, in which case, I want to encourage them to stick around. The best way to do that is for any a-holes who attacked them to apologize. You seem to find it insulting that someone who was rude is asked to apologize. I don't.

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And it is the perspective of the overwhelming majority of this forum. Perhaps you should re-evaluate your desire to continue to hang around since we are all such horrible, negative people. Go out and find your tribe instead of trying to judge everyone else for not adhering to your strict perspective.

I have to disagree with this statement. There's about 3-5 people who, on a regular basis, are just a-holes. The vast, vast majority of folks here are pretty sweet. That's why I don't need a huge list of people in my guestbook to remind me who's a jerk and who isn't - the number is so small, I can pretty much remember it at any time.

Quote: BahamutBreaker

UncleBob, it's really time for you to stop posting now. Actually, that time came and went long ago. But since you missed that signal, and the dozen or so of the same signal that followed, I'll just pretend that it's now time for you to stop posting; maybe you won't miss this signal.

Iterative post re iterated.

Unclebob, people that tell other new people that simply posting "hey I saw this" or "a manager told me this" and are reminded that trust is a little harder than that to come by are just getting headlights blinked at them (using your analogy). They are being told (overwhelmingly in polite ways) that we have seen many people simply make up stuff and are offered suggestions that will help them fit in. If that's what you calling "being a sourpuss", then clearly you need to grow a skin. If I'm new somewhere, I like to be informed of etiquette in the group. If I disagree I'll walk away and find somewhere that does fit me better. I have a feeling we don't lose many like this, but if they aren't going to fit in well, maybe it's best they don't stick around - regardless of whatever information they have. Personally, I'm not the kind of person to blow sunshine up someone's rear in order that they might bless me with their information. I'd rather do without if I can't be straight up with you. You get what you see here. I'm not mean to people, but I also don't become a saccharine sweet version of me for people I just meet or have something I want. That tends to get you into more trouble when people discover you are just yanking their chain.

It isn't just me or a few others. You get into it all the time with others. Many others. And it's almost always over something incredibly trivial. You are constantly a "tone troll" who gets offended with all kinds of ridiculous things. You delight in teasing things over people when you find out something not well known.

In fact this whole thread was about user's perspective on one of the impacts of scalping and somehow you turned it against me for simply having an opinion, and you blew a friendly action which I plainly stated into a giant thing about hypocrisy. Why do you do that? I was harming NO ONE. I mentioned I had a problem with scalpers clearing the shelves, and I admitted I helped out a friend (another user here) by buying ONE more of a few figures that had a large stock level for him since he was out of town. You could just point out hey, while you aren't clearing the shelves, it does have an impact on your point. I get that, I admitted doing that because in making my point I felt I should not leave out parts to bolster my argument. After all, this thread is a discussion about it. I made the point that someone that sells a figure or two isn't the same as someone that loads up a cart and scalps them for a big markup - I don't think there is any debate with most about that. But that isn't enough. You need to DRILL IT HARD. Why? Do you think people appreciate you grinding threads to dust with your constant contrarianism? You seem to think EVERYONE ELSE should just stop first and let you win by default, even when you are in the significant minority of opinion. Your strategy seems to be to simply win by wearing the other side out and never giving up the ghost - or to get the thread locked by feigning offense. How many different people over time have to tell you to stop it before you get the hint?

You aren't having an honest debate. You get into arguments over minor points. I came in and you weren't part of this when I offered my opinion, but something about my perspective just sets off red lights in your head. You aren't here to debate about the point, you are here to debate about ME - not one of your comments has addressed points made by anyone else. You seem to feel the need to come in and call people out on little things. Who crowned you as the morals police? Are people not allowed to think about something differently from you? And why do you seem to care so much? Do you have a compulsion to insert your morals on others? Do you lack the ability to give yourself a timeout or let something go? I cannot count the number of times I had an opinion on something you or someone else said in another thread where I typed up a response and decided against posting, or simply didn't start at all. In fact, I pretty much go kid's gloves on you because I have my suspicions that there is a little more going on here than it appears at first glance based on one of your previous outbursts - and I don't feel good about being overly harsh, particularly on a forum for toys and games where children often read. I've actively avoided arguing with you - AND made a point to indicate when you and I were in agreement recently.

I'm here to talk Skylanders, find out about new releases and information, offer my opinion, and an occasional lively debate. My life isn't consumed by it, but you might assume that based on my posts. This is such a minor part of my life and I tend to multitask. My time here is fun time. I play the game with my kids, but they have their own other interests as well. I'm sure you like to picture me as anxiously clicking reload waiting for your next response. But unless I have idle time, which I haven't had much of this weekend, I forget about this place.

But, it seems my presence rubs you the wrong way. Sorry. Not going to change. Many people agree with me, some do not. I feel I have contributed to the forum in the past and have gotten many private messages indicating so. I've had unsolicited messages asking my perspective on something, as well as asking for information. I've even made a few real life friends from here. So, while YOU don't like me and you think I'm terrible, there are many that seem to enjoy my insight. And I have a good idea of the other 3-5 you indicate and they are also in general pretty interesting people that help out (and if you count those that you argue with, that number is much larger than 5). If it isn't working out for you, then crank up your own forum and you can host all the people you like and ban the rest of us. Until that point, you are not the morals police. You are not legal counsel. You are not the moderator. And you are going to need to learn to deal with the fact that people disagree with you from time to time.

I'm not going to address each and every one of your points one at a time. Frankly, it's not worth my time - it's quite obvious you and I will never see eye-to-eye on many things. But I would very much to address one comment you made...

Quote:

you are not the morals police.

This. This is the crux of what started this argument between you and I. This is what tends to bring us out over and over. You want to be the "morals police" over "scalpers". I think that "you are going to need to learn to deal with the fact that people disagree with you from time to time." about reselling.

I think that if we can both agree that neither one of us are the "morals police", then I think we can both move on...

It seems to be "worth your time" when you think you have a snappy comeback. I'm not the one that jumps on your posts and dissects your opinions and calls you things like "hypocrite" and tells you that you cannot be helping a friend as a selfless act. I was debating the points of the thread, and the OP and I actually were somewhat in agreement on many points (and not on others) and were being respectful of each others opinions. Then you to stir things up and turned it about me. This thread isn't about "How defpally feels about scalping", the title of the thread is "Scalping". Our debates always seem to be you attacking me, or in some rarer cases, when I defend a friend you are currently attacking. Me firing back in defense isn't me attempting to be your "morals police". I actively avoid responding to you on one of your posts unprovoked. I ignored two of your shots at me in this thread before I actually responded to your third. I guess you weren't getting the feedback you craved so you kept at it until we got to this point.

And if I want to dislike scalpers for my reasons that is my business. They don't need your defense against me, unless you are one - which you indicate you do not have any skin in that game. So, tell me why, despite a distaste for scalping being present in the majority of users on this forum, it is my opposition that you need to address directly and repeatedly?

I really don't think we can move on because I did so previously. I sensed I was dealing with some underlying personal issues of yours several months ago, ones I did not want to make worse. But you chose to keep needling at me. And now you want me to agree with you and move on as if it is some sort of mutual problem.

... I just realised that this topic is a perfect demonstration of how the topics here have gone downhill over time, while people are becoming more bored and frustrated and waiting for Sky4 news to discuss. It's a topic about something that's already been discussed many times where many points in posts have been iterated in other topics. It's devolved into arguing between users which should be taken to PMs to be worked out, instead of overtaking the discussion on the topic which should have just died and faded away rather than making more drama on the forums. :V

Not trying to get involved in it, just sayin'.

Okay, you want "witty comebacks"... I bypassed a bit your previous post, so let's go back to it.

Quote: defpally

They are being told (overwhelmingly in polite ways) that we have seen many people simply make up stuff and are offered suggestions that will help them fit in.

I've said many times, it's not the polite ones I'm talking about that should apologize. It's the ones that post crap accusing posters of being scammers, flat out liars, and similar BS. You can call me a "tone troll" if you want, but there's a world of difference between "Where'd you get this information?" and "You're a scammer and a liar." It'd be like getting out of your car and yelling at the guy who blinked his headlights because you don't *think* there's deer ahead.

Quote:

I have a feeling we don't lose many like this, but if they aren't going to fit in well, maybe it's best they don't stick around - regardless of whatever information they have.

I get it. "Conform or leave." What a wonderfully welcoming attitude you have there. High class and all.

Quote:

Personally, I'm not the kind of person to blow sunshine up someone's rear in order that they might bless me with their information. I'd rather do without if I can't be straight up with you.

While I've never said anyone should "Blow sunshine" - here's the thing - when people get chased off this forum, that doesn't just effect you. Now, you may only care about you - and that's fine, I guess - but losing members on this forum effects EVERYONE here. Not just you. Mayhaps you should think beyond yourself?

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It isn't just me or a few others.

Yeah, it pretty much is.

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You delight in teasing things over people when you find out something not well known.

Yeah, I'm going to need something to back up this claim. Truth be told, I've just stopped sharing everything. As I said before, it's not worth it.

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even when you are in the significant minority of opinion.

"Conform to the majority or STFU.". Again, classy.

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I came in and you weren't part of this when I offered my opinion, but something about my perspective just sets off red lights in your head.

For someone who reads every post and has such a great memory, you seem to have absolutely NO idea what the timeline of this thread actually was. I wasn't a part of it until you posted? That's complete bull. I had three replies in this thread before you came in.

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You aren't here to debate about the point, you are here to debate about ME - not one of your comments has addressed points made by anyone else.

Again, absolutely no idea of the timeline of this thread. Three posts before you even came in, and a fourth post that had nothing to with you after you posted. Quit trying to revise history just to prove your point that isn't there.

Quote:

Who crowned you as the morals police? Are people not allowed to think about something differently from you? And why do you seem to care so much? Do you have a compulsion to insert your morals on others?

This is rich coming from you.

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My life isn't consumed by it, but you might assume that based on my posts. This is such a minor part of my life and I tend to multitask. My time here is fun time. I play the game with my kids, but they have their own other interests as well. I'm sure you like to picture me as anxiously clicking reload waiting for your next response. But unless I have idle time, which I haven't had much of this weekend, I forget about this place.

You made the comment disparaging my "not worth my time" comment, so I'll go here. Your last two posts in this thread were nearly fifteen hundred words. For something that's so minor that you don't lose sleep over, you sure seem passionate about it.

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But, it seems my presence rubs you the wrong way. Sorry. Not going to change.

Ditto. The big difference is that I don't expect others to leave just because I can't get along with them.

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I feel I have contributed to the forum in the past and have gotten many private messages indicating so. I've had unsolicited messages asking my perspective on something, as well as asking for information. I've even made a few real life friends from here.

While I can't say I've met anyone from the forums (which might have more to do with population density), I've received several PMs, e-mails and have even had folks from this forum offer to help me get figures (of which, I've only taken up one folk due to the figure I needed not being sold here in the states). So, congrats. We've both made friends here.

Quote: defpally

It seems to be "worth your time" when you think you have a snappy comeback.

Again... fifteen hundred words.

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I'm not the one that jumps on your posts and dissects your opinions and calls you things like "hypocrite" and tells you that you cannot be helping a friend as a selfless act.

No, you just like to make snide comments accusing me of mental ailments. And, for the record, the "hypocrite" comment wasn't until several posts after you started the name calling. But, again, revisionist history and all.

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I was debating the points of the thread, and the OP and I actually were somewhat in agreement on many points (and not on others) and were being respectful of each others opinions. Then you to stir things up and turned it about me.

You know, I apologize. I assumed that when you started talking about how great of a guy you were for buying extra figures, that meant others could talk about it too. You brought it into the conversation. I didn't realize that you had the exclusive right to talk about your buying habits. Does this exclusive right to talk about one's own buying habits extend to everyone, or is it just you?

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This thread isn't about "How defpally feels about scalping", the title of the thread is "Scalping". Our debates always seem to be you attacking me, or in some rarer cases, when I defend a friend you are currently attacking.

Me attacking you? Again, I asked a question on how what you did differs from what you're complaining about. You're the one that started the name calling and personal attacks.

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Me firing back in defense isn't me attempting to be your "morals police".

No, but you talking about resellers being scammers and how immoral they are is. What makes you the morality police when it comes to reselling?

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I actively avoid responding to you on one of your posts unprovoked. I ignored two of your shots at me in this thread before I actually responded to your third.

I'll give you this - mostly. Someone else directly responded to me and you directly responded to that person - to which I responded to again.

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And if I want to dislike scalpers for my reasons that is my business.

Sure. And if I want to have a dislike for hypocrites, then that is my business as well. But when you post about it on a public forum that's designed for public interaction, don't cry about it when someone *does* try to discuss it.

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So, tell me why, despite a distaste for scalping being present in the majority of users on this forum, it is my opposition that you need to address directly and repeatedly?

Again, revisionist history. I posted three replies in this thread about "scalpers", none of which had *anything* to do with you, before you ever got involved. The world doesn't revolve around you. We tend to butt heads on the subject more than most because you and I seem to be more passionate about the subject than most. You think it's an offense to mankind, I think it's a minor offshoot of the hobby being so popular and isn't something to get worked up over.

Now that's more like what I was expecting from good ole Unclebob. Funny that you put down my 1,500 words yet you make a post with no less than 20 quotes and responses. I like to post. I can be wordy, but I like to put thought into what I say.

Yes, I expect people to conform to forum rules and standards if they expect to be good contributors. Rules exist to which people must conform to. And there are standards for what people consider helpful information. And as you recognize, I do not attack others over it, I try to offer helpful advice to help them fit in better. I think that is pretty high class, but hey if you think a wild west environment where people post every rumor they have ever heard from random people as if it is reliable information would be helpful, then I think you have a minority opinion. In fact I know you do, because you have gotten significant disagreement every single time you try this. Do you know how many people just skim the posts and might have their time and gas wasted by some guy that "heard" some figure is coming out? This is what we expect as a protection for other users, if you were really thinking of others this would have crossed your mind. And yes, scammers have posted rumors on here before, you need to be more understanding about regular posters that have been burned in the past.

And no, I don't think "Conform or leave". I think "If this forum does not live up to your standards, find somewhere that does instead of demanding everyone thinks like you do". If you are going to post new information, be prepared to offer more than a rumor if you want people to believe you, otherwise you might want to find somewhere that is more tolerant of it. Scalping is overwhelmingly frowned upon here, if that doesn't suit you maybe another forum that welcomes it might be more your taste. You are going to get blowback for unpopular opinions on a forum.

And yeah I gather that you might have stopped "sharing". I guess we will have to do without the "I know the TRU release week special" with no other info. Or other "teasing" about things you have found out. If you know something, post it. If you are bitter about a previous experience, then don't. If it is sensitive information that could affect your job, then clarify that or wait until you can. Don't expect people beg you to share. I'd rather not know than play 20 questions. There is no information that gets posted here that is critical to me. Helpful at times, yes, but I'll do just fine without. I assume you probably knew about Enchanted Star Strike early, based on a couple teases you posted. You know what, we all got it just fine without your help.

It's not revisionist history. I know you posted before me. I saw your posts, and I didn't agree with them. I don't like how you told people to stop being lazy or shut up. You know what I did? I simply let them go. Because I know how you are. I deliberately avoided responding to you and was talking with the OP, because he seems a reasonable fellow. I ignored you when you responded to me directly, multiple times. But then you kept on going until you got a response. Is that the kind of interactions you want with others? Where they avoid speaking to you because you are so insufferable then only acknowledge you because you goad them into it?

And no, I'm not the only one that has gotten into it with you, far from it. Most others simply gave up because they figured out you will grind and grind until you make them stop. Don't offer up the old "well no one says anything so it's fine". Most people simply ignore you lately, and I've tried to do that as well.

OMG stop! please take this to pms nobody cares

A perfectly good topic destroyed