darkSpyro

Wanted to start a thread to discuss the ethics and realities of scalping. For the most part, I don't have a big problem with it, but I thought it would be interesting to discuss the pros and cons. I'll start with a definition, and move to cons first, since it generally seems like people are negative on the concept.

For this thread, I'm going to define scalping as selling a new/unused skylander figure for above normal retail price. The intention of acquiring the skylander (whether through retail, contest, or some other source) is/was to sell the figure.


Cons:
- A scalper will limit the supply available, making it near impossible for normal customers to purchase the skylander.
The math doesn't seem to add up on this, IMO. I could be wrong, but the number of retail stores is much larger then the number of scalpers. For scalpers to have such a dramatic impact, they would have to purchase very large quantities, larger then what I've seen on ebay/amazon. Perhaps their are other outlets I'm not aware of. From discussion I've seen on this board, and shortages of supply at a retail store has been due to a low volume of figures arriving at the store on the truck, not due to scalpers.
- Scalpers are greedy, they shouldn't make a profit off a kids toy.
Retailers, Activision, Toys for Bob, etc. They all make a profit. Not sure why scalpers should be looked at differently
- Scalpers should be responsible and make sure that they leave some figures in the store for other customers
Why is it all on them to do this? It's the store's responsibility to maintain it's stock, not the scalper. If the store doesn't want scalpers to clean them out, then they can limit the amount sold to a customer. I'm sure there are ways around this, but they can make it difficult and less cost effective for the scalper.
- Scalpers overprice their products, tricking naive customers in to spending more they they have to.
I do have somewhat of a problem with this. I do think sellers should be somewhat ethical on this. However, it's the customers job to understand the real value of what they're purchasing in the end.
- Scalpers are not good collectors. If you scalp, then you've lost the respect of your piers. Unless you only scalp at retail price, with the idea that you're providing joy to someone.
Seems rather judgmental to me

Pros:
- Scalpers serve customers that other retail stores do not, at least within a certain time frame.
Retail chains often only offer a figure in store at first, before it's available online. Even Amazon will usually be delayed. You can always find a figure on ebay immediately after it's made a available pretty much anywhere. If you're a customer who wants a figure immediately for whatever reason, scalpers provide this service
- Scalpers sometimes will ship to locations that other retailers will not.
This is almost the same as the previous bullet, but I separated because we often hear complaints from people in other countries about the lack of availability of figures there. I personally got a couple figures from UK scalpers that weren't available as singles.
- If you missed a limited release, scalpers may be your option.
Using this website, you can find out when something's released, but that is a lot to keep up with. If a customer is willing to pay a bit more, they won't have to monitor this site or several retailers. They can just go straight to ebay and find whatever's available, if they aren't concerned about getting the best deal. If you're a parent/grandparent who doesn't want to get into Skylander details, but want's to get little Jimmy that figure he's just dying to have, then scalpers help you out tremendously
- There is skill and knowledge involved with scalping. It's not just dumb money.
Scalpers have to know the product they're selling and what kind of market it could potentially have. They also have connections and the right sources in order to acquire the product at the right times for the right price in order to make a product. I'm a fan of capitalism when their is actual work involved and service is actually provided. There are plenty of other professions were people make money without providing any service whatsoever. I also don't see a problem for making money off of what you know and love.
- If we disallow scalping rare figures would be impossible to buy or sell.
Personally, I have never found a chase variant, but have acquired many through ebay. It seems hypocritical to me to be negative about scalpers for selling items I can get through retail, but not for rare items I can't get, or that I might want to sell myself.


Personally, I think a lot of the frustration with scalpers is due to frustration with not easily finding the figure you want, and they are the convenient target to blame whether they're responsible or not.

This topic is probably going to go on for some quite some time, but my opinion is rather simple. There will always be impatient people with more money then time or energy, as long as these people exist scalpers will also. With Swap Force the amount of scalping has greatly decreased, figures are readily available (for the most part). Disney Infinity has even less scalping, because of pre-order capabilities and clear release dates. Skylanders might want to take a hint from this excellent business practice.

Your argument about # of stores vs scalpers is pretty much invalid. True nationally or internationally there are more stores than scalpers, but locally it is very easy for someone to buy out a store of all their exclusive / low count figures from a shipment. The reality is that in this tight economy stores are not continuously restocking from an endless inventory source...they only try to keep on hand enough to sell through without needing to put it on clearance. Around the holidays this is less of an issue, but this time of year, demand is out-stripping supply on low count figures. This is made worse when you have figures like Zoo Lou eating up shelf space and not selling..if they don't clear em out, they don't get more in.

What Activision needs to do is the same thing that Mattel & Hasbro have done for years...continue to release chase variants if you want in the wild (knowing that no one outside the select few will find them), but then also set up a Skylanders Club where they themselves sell chase variants to club members at more than retail but less than scalper prices. Personally I'm surprised they haven't done this already as it builds brand loyalty and puts money directly in their pockets.

Excellent and thorough post, Melvimbe.

The bottom line is that scalping will exist and will persevere, no matter how much we protest. However, that doesn't mean that we, as a community, shouldn't denounce the practice or that we shouldn't make efforts to decrease the prevalence of scalping. There is no "right" or "wrong" with scalping ... that's all in the eye of the beholder. However, the objective part of this argument holds that artificially limiting supply of specific figurines and selling them for modest personal profit is good (from a purely economical standpoint) for the game's developers, publishers, distributors, retailers, and the scalper ... but it is bad for the average consumer. Since we know Activision, Target, and Wal-Mart are doing just fine financially, that comparison, from an everyday person's pragmatic viewpoint, boils down to the scalper vs. the average consumer. MOST of us on this forum are going to have little sympathy for the scalper, while readily empathizing with the average consumer.

I know it's an unsavory comparison, but scalping is not unlike solicitation (prostitution). There is a paying pool of customers for a service (i.e. demand) and there's people who are willing to sacrifice moral standards to gain monetarily (i.e. supply). Where there is supply and demand for a service, a business will evolve in a free market economy, regardless of the moral consequences. It is up to the community to determine how much we will tolerate it. When the practice exceeds our tolerance, we take action to curtail the practice.

So, really, choosing to condone or condemn "scalping" is a matter of personal comfort or tolerance. You each must decide your tolerance level, and collectively, the average tolerance of the community determines how well the "scalping industry" performs. If it doesn't perform well (i.e. removing the demand), the practice will stop. If it does perform well, it will continue regardless of protests from the minority.

Maybe Scalpers help keep figures like zoo lou from taking over. Maybe they keep the whole balance of the skylander eco system.


But as for scalpers clearing an entire area I think it depends where you live. If i wanted to make a 45 min drive I have 6 toysrus in a giant loop made from freeways that will dump me pleasantly right back at my house. Some people have to drive 45 min for 1. Scalpers could help those people however. X character comes out Thur. Oh no I have to work till 5pm. Drive 45 min to store and looks like they all got bought out. Not simply because of scalpers but because of other customers and their kids or the possible collector who buys like 10 of the darn things.

Scalping vs collecting is an interesting take too. And this is not directed at anybody. Person is buying 5 of brand new figure. Does it matter if you are planning to keep it or sell it? You are still taking a new character that usually is in short supply off the shelves. And how does it apply to Miss Mom or Dad that's like well I want one for each of my three kids, and our neighbor, and the best friend at school, and for that parent in my book club, etc

I think people just get butt hurt when they see anybody buying a large amount of any figure when it first comes out. When Phantom Cynder wave came out this kid and his dad nearly bought all of the Prism Break Cynder and dune bugs. And there were at least 15 boxes. I asked them what they were for and they said church donation for toys. And I thought that was odd, why take all the new characters that just came out when there are plenty of shelf warmers. Maybe they were telling the truth, maybe they were lying and scalping. I don't know, it doesn't really matter its not my business. But they could have said curing cancer and truthfully do people really care about the response when somebody is right there in front of your face buying 50 brand new figures. You get indignant seeing this ass buy all the figures and remembering the horror days of SSA scalping. But you get home, get yourself away from the situation and think. There is always two sides to a coin.

Quote: shadowfox

Maybe Scalpers help keep figures like zoo lou from taking over. Maybe they keep the whole balance of the skylander eco system.


But as for scalpers clearing an entire area I think it depends where you live. If i wanted to make a 45 min drive I have 6 toysrus in a giant loop made from freeways that will dump me pleasantly right back at my house. Some people have to drive 45 min for 1. Scalpers could help those people however. X character comes out Thur. Oh no I have to work till 5pm. Drive 45 min to store and looks like they all got bought out. Not simply because of scalpers but because of other customers and their kids or the possible collector who buys like 10 of the darn things.

Scalping vs collecting is an interesting take too. And this is not directed at anybody. Person is buying 5 of brand new figure. Does it matter if you are planning to keep it or sell it? You are still taking a new character that usually is in short supply off the shelves. And how does it apply to Miss Mom or Dad that's like well I want one for each of my three kids, and our neighbor, and the best friend at school, and for that parent in my book club, etc

I think people just get butt hurt when they see anybody buying a large amount of any figure when it first comes out. When Phantom Cynder wave came out this kid and his dad nearly bought all of the Prism Break Cynder and dune bugs. And there were at least 15 boxes. I asked them what they were for and they said church donation for toys. And I thought that was odd, why take all the new characters that just came out when there are plenty of shelf warmers. Maybe they were telling the truth, maybe they were lying and scalping. I don't know, it doesn't really matter its not my business. But they could have said curing cancer and truthfully do people really care about the response when somebody is right there in front of your face buying 50 brand new figures. You get indignant seeing this ass buy all the figures and remembering the horror days of SSA scalping. But you get home, get yourself away from the situation and think. There is always two sides to a coin.

I totally agree.

Scalpers help by buying excessive shelf warmers and make room for new characters to come in. That happened with Boomer, and now it happened with Roller Brawl (for some, she's gone, for others, she's everywhere.)

Funny.

I don't know of any "scalpers" that raid the retail store shelves buying up the "shelf warmers". That's naive to believe that.

The "scalpers" for Skylanders know EXACTLY which ones provide them with an opportunity to profit. The new ones and the low-quantity ones. Period. "Scalpers" do not go into a store and indiscriminately just buy up entire stocks of Skylanders without regard for which ones they're grabbing. To suggest that is absurd and totally out of touch with reality.

Think about it: if "scalpers" were notoriously buying out all the shelf-warmers ... would there be any shelf-warmers then? No.

Quote: BahamutBreaker

Funny.

I don't know of any "scalpers" that raid the retail store shelves buying up the "shelf warmers". That's naive to believe that.

The "scalpers" for Skylanders know EXACTLY which ones provide them with an opportunity to profit. The new ones and the low-quantity ones. Period. "Scalpers" do not go into a store and indiscriminately just buy up entire stocks of Skylanders without regard for which ones they're grabbing. To suggest that is absurd and totally out of touch with reality.

Think about it: if "scalpers" were notoriously buying out all the shelf-warmers ... would there be any shelf-warmers then? No.

But the thing is: Each one buys their fill of shelf-warmers. Some of them can't tell if they are shelf-warmers or not, others are experienced enough to tell.

Look at LC Countdown and LC Wham-Shell, in areas; they're everywhere, in other places, they're hard to find. It's just a game, overall.

Quote: Matteomax

Some of them can't tell if they are shelf-warmers or not, others are experienced enough to tell.

While I will partially agree with that statement, it should probably be amended to this:

"A few can't tell if they are shelf-warmers or not, most are experienced enough to tell"

Again, defending the practice of "scalping" based on the premise that it's good for "cleaning up" the shelf-warmers that sell very slowly otherwise ... that's a fallacy; bad/false logic.

Im assuming a bunch of scalpers picked up a ton of Trap Shadow because logically he would be a good one to scalp. Stink Bombs general census was meh so A hes the cool sneak character b hes a cat people love cats c hes had a lot of hype. But he was flooded in the stores. In massive amounts. so scalper buys box not realizing there are tons of him in the back. Thats one less box sitting later

sheesh! if this is the kind of crap i'm gonna get for selling my darklight crypt and flocked stump smash, WOAH!

its always a touchy biased subject

I agree that most people over estimate the impact that scalers have on inventory. I think people are just looking for a scape-goat. When people see that a figure is sold out, immediately the finger is pointed at scalper; as if no regular consumers were involved. I would love to see the numbers; the ratio of figures shipped compared to figures scalped. I don't know one would obtain that figure, but I'd be willing to wager that the percentage of figures scalped is far smaller than most people think.

That being said, new releases have been extremely easy to get recently. They seem to be readily available within days of being seen in the wild. So I really wouldn't trip if my local store sold out, the wait shouldn't be long to get another opportunity.

There is a scalper in my area that does in fact buy out all the shelf warmers any time there is a sale going on. With the 3 for 20 that toys'r'us just ran there is a total of about 10 skylanders at our Walmart right now. So this does indeed happen that scalpers buy out shelf warmers. Just because it doesn't take place when you want it too does not mean that it never happens. Scalpers don't always look for the big profit but can be just as appeased with making 3 or 4 dollars per transaction if they can do 40 transactions.

In my mind scalping is a part of the game and it always will be. I personally have no problem with it and to compare scalper to solicitation is just asinine. You are telling me that you truly look at someone the same who buys a stock of plastic figure the same way you look at someone who will kill and abuse people to get what they want? You my friend need to reevaluate your outlook on life.

As to the Mattel/Hasbro buyers club thing, as far as I'm aware they aren't so much as chase variants as hard to find or one offs they make specifically for said buyers club. If they did it as the chase variants then that would kill the thrill of the chase feeling for many people, however if they did this and put in figures like the volcanic eruptor or the punch pop fizz that are specific to certain starter packs this could be a great thing. They could even do special ones like they do for the employees that have a buys club sticker on it, they do the employee thing at least once a year so I could see them doing one for the club just as easily.

It's not very fair to call every one who sells skylanders online scalpers. It's all about the supply and demand. It's very hard to sell a toy at a higher price then retail when there is enough in the stores. But for example, just after christmas, stores got a very limited amount of stink bomb, spy rise and rubble rouser. Like maybe 2 of each, for one shipment, at a few stores. So I was seeing people selling them for $30 each on my local classified site, and even on ebay. But now that they've had a more steady release. No one is going to get that much for any of those figures. As long as a figure stays well stocked on the shelf.

BUT it all depends on your area, because canada didnt get figures like stink bomb etc till long after the US, then "scalpers" would be doing well selling online.

Every one knows that certain places get certain figures before others, and certain places get more of those figures then others. When enchanted star strike came out here in canada first. I could have easily bought a bunch and sold them for more online because there was a demand in other countries. Does that make me a scalper? Even if I only bought like 5 when theres still 80 on the shelves and made a $10 profit off of each one? No, it does not. Because there is a demand for them, so people are willing to pay more. And the stores in my area would still be flooded with them (and they still are).

So many of you bad mouth sellers, and call them scalpers because you feel that they are taking the only supply of figures that are available in your area. But we ALL know that the supply and demand is different every where. So all theyre doing is making a figure available for collectors who other wise can't find them, or may never find them. WE as consumers of these skylanders make them worth more. If none of us bought these, then they wouldnt be worth $1. I will buy a quick draw rattle shake for $80 on ebay because I never had the chance to get one from a chip bag. Does that mean I'm supporting scalpers?? NO, it means that figure was in limited supply to a certain area. and that area only... Thus making the figure cost more to buy it from a second source.

Not sure if someone mentioned this yet... There's the thing that scalpers also help get the toys sold to people who don't have acess to them in other countries. I had to rely on them to get a Series 2 Ignitor, for example, because every single store in here decided that some waves from Giants never existed. Could I get it from Amazon? For the same price I'd buy like 2 figures in here(and they're overpriced as heck in my country),yes. But when that was the only figure I could afford last year and maybe for the majority of this one too, I'd rather know I'd get one with a decent paintjob(more than what I can expect from retailers here) with shipping + taxation that cost less than an actual console game.

Do you guys consider the act of buying multiple times the same figure but not with the intent of selling it immediately on eBay for a higher price scalping? One time, there were 4 Scarlet Ninjini available in a store. It was the only store to ever sell this figure in my city. I bought 3 out of the 4 figures; one I unbox, one I keep in the package and one I sell for the same price to a friend (it's like I reserved it for the person in case she wouldn't be available elsewhere, which was the case). This is the closest thing I've done to scalping, there was probably more Scarlet available that have been sold before I arrived, so I don't think I prevented one or more kids to get the figure they wanted.

Does anyone know if Activision has retailers box up extras that are on the shelf and ship back to them when new skylanders are about to be released? Some retailers in my area would have a tremendous amount of certain skylanders and a week later new ones would be out and the old ones are not there. I around towns of 4,000 people and there isn't a high demand for skylanders nor do I think there is a a scapler around here either.

Quote: Sharpeido

Does anyone know if Activision has retailers box up extras that are on the shelf and ship back to them when new skylanders are about to be released? Some retailers in my area would have a tremendous amount of certain skylanders and a week later new ones would be out and the old ones are not there. I around towns of 4,000 people and there isn't a high demand for skylanders nor do I think there is a a scapler around here either.

More likely the retail store is shipping them to other locations in the chain that need more stock. Years ago when I worked for Gamestop we used to do that.

If you all remember back to the people on ebay who had 14 quickdraw rattleshakes while some here had none. Then if you remember I told many of you NOT to post the codes on the website, some people didn't pay attention to that one and of course it is possible one of the scalpers found the codes and kept winning when others couldn't. Some thought I was trying to hurt others by not winning, but it was for this reason why I didn't want to see the codes on there. I bring this up as this has happened and with things here we have many who wish to help others, but at times it ends up hurting them instead. I'd like to bring up if something like this does happen again in the future for a contest that codes are shared by message only and not publicly.

Not everyone is going to be as generous and they do look out for themselves at the end of the day, that's the sad truth of it, and you get many that do see skylanders or anything else like it as a quick buck if they can sell it immediately and at a high price.

I could have scalped this contest too. From everyone I helped I won a total of 25 quickdraw rattleshakes and I only have about two left. The rest went to many here on the forums and only very few under 5 went to relatives. I'd still like to have some roll call of those I helped to know if they ever got them. Some told me and some I never heard from again xD

Quote: Sharpeido

Does anyone know if Activision has retailers box up extras that are on the shelf and ship back to them when new skylanders are about to be released? Some retailers in my area would have a tremendous amount of certain skylanders and a week later new ones would be out and the old ones are not there. I around towns of 4,000 people and there isn't a high demand for skylanders nor do I think there is a a scapler around here either.

Yes, my local ToysRUs had Giants triple packs recalled, they had massive amounts of boxes.

Quote: BahamutBreaker

Excellent and thorough post, Melvimbe.

The bottom line is that scalping will exist and will persevere, no matter how much we protest. However, that doesn't mean that we, as a community, shouldn't denounce the practice or that we shouldn't make efforts to decrease the prevalence of scalping. There is no "right" or "wrong" with scalping ... that's all in the eye of the beholder. However, the objective part of this argument holds that artificially limiting supply of specific figurines and selling them for modest personal profit is good (from a purely economical standpoint) for the game's developers, publishers, distributors, retailers, and the scalper ... but it is bad for the average consumer. Since we know Activision, Target, and Wal-Mart are doing just fine financially, that comparison, from an everyday person's pragmatic viewpoint, boils down to the scalper vs. the average consumer. MOST of us on this forum are going to have little sympathy for the scalper, while readily empathizing with the average consumer.

I know it's an unsavory comparison, but scalping is not unlike solicitation (prostitution). There is a paying pool of customers for a service (i.e. demand) and there's people who are willing to sacrifice moral standards to gain monetarily (i.e. supply). Where there is supply and demand for a service, a business will evolve in a free market economy, regardless of the moral consequences. It is up to the community to determine how much we will tolerate it. When the practice exceeds our tolerance, we take action to curtail the practice.

So, really, choosing to condone or condemn "scalping" is a matter of personal comfort or tolerance. You each must decide your tolerance level, and collectively, the average tolerance of the community determines how well the "scalping industry" performs. If it doesn't perform well (i.e. removing the demand), the practice will stop. If it does perform well, it will continue regardless of protests from the minority.

Amen!

Quote: Bifrost

Not sure if someone mentioned this yet... There's the thing that scalpers also help get the toys sold to people who don't have acess to them in other countries. I had to rely on them to get a Series 2 Ignitor, for example, because every single store in here decided that some waves from Giants never existed. Could I get it from Amazon? For the same price I'd buy like 2 figures in here(and they're overpriced as heck in my country),yes. But when that was the only figure I could afford last year and maybe for the majority of this one too, I'd rather know I'd get one with a decent paintjob(more than what I can expect from retailers here) with shipping + taxation that cost less than an actual console game.

I basically said this in the comment above yours

Quote: Tupelo

I basically said this in the comment above yours

I was talking more about contries having the release dates completely wrong. We STILL don't have a Series 2 Ignitor around here and several others I can't remember right now.I could wait for the figure to come out in my country and actually support the original retailers,but it never did.

Look, this topic is too long for me to bother to read all of it at the moment, but I'll just repost how I think scalping figures is from an international standpoint:
Quote: Arc of Archives

Quote: ZapNorris

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NITRO-...=item2ecfa4463d

not so fast.

I think that's just how scalpers are scalping international customers, because a lot of us outside of the US are waiting for Freeze Blade and Trap Shadow and Scratch and Fryno and can't just go to a store to pick them up for $10, so we have no other option unless we have someone who could buy them for us or just wait for them... It's becoming standard pretty stuff now, and unfortunately a lot of scalpers seem to have latched onto the international buyers...

For the record, I'm just waiting for Wave 4. I buy so many figures that the cumulative cost of getting them at inflated prices would add up to even more and I've only imported a few figures just for the purpose of getting them early, so I don't import any besides my personal must-haves. But I understand why people do it: a. they have enough cash to blow, b. they don't really care and want them as soon as possible or c. they just import a few of their most anticipated figures early. I used to import more figures for much higher prices in SA though(which I regret doing).

But- that said, I don't understand how auctions like that Freeze Blade one that are selling for inflated prices but only ship to the US are succeeding. Can people really not find them in-stores? From what I hear the figure restock in the US is supposed to be pretty good so I don't get why people don't just wait for restocks(unless there are more areas where that's not the case?). Still, if some people really are that desperate then I guess they'll be willing to pay the inflated price.

I bet you guys were almost fooled and thought I didn't actually check the auction before posting. ;P Bait-n'-switch!

On a related note, I love how one of the other suggested searches in that "Skylanders freeze" search was "skylanders blade freeze" but there was no "skylanders freeze blade" suggested There are also a surprising amount of listings for Rattle Shake that misspell his name as Rattle Snake.

If they provide international shipping, your favourite scalper is probably still making a profit from selling Skylanders at inflated prices.

Besides that, I've scalped a few figures in the past for a bit of profit, I didn't even make that much, I only do it when we get figures first because that hardly ever happens and it's nice to make a bit of profit off of this hobby(which goes right back into buying more Skylanders). Even then I intentionally limit myself to not buying all the figures that are on the shelf, so that anyone else interested can still find them. I think it's fine to do it but buying out all the stock of figures just to resell them is ridiculous, IMO. Can't do anything to stop that either, though. I just avoid buying from scalpers when I can. But I know other people will be fine with that and it's their choice to buy them- not me holding them to a gun- plus usually we are left in the dust and other countries get a lot of stuff before us, which is why I occasionally do scalp. I don't take pride in it or mean to boast about it, I just don't think it every instance of scalping should be called out like I've seen sometimes. I've said if before, and I'll say it again: scalping might be a bad thing, but doing a bad thing doesn't make you a bad person, and I've seen a lot of scalper stereotypes implying that anyone who scalps is a greedy butthole, to put it bluntly. Which is a terrible generalisation.

So basically, (as I often do) I agree with Tupelo here.

Also,

Quote: newkill

Do you guys consider the act of buying multiple times the same figure but not with the intent of selling it immediately on eBay for a higher price scalping? One time, there were 4 Scarlet Ninjini available in a store. It was the only store to ever sell this figure in my city. I bought 3 out of the 4 figures; one I unbox, one I keep in the package and one I sell for the same price to a friend (it's like I reserved it for the person in case she wouldn't be available elsewhere, which was the case). This is the closest thing I've done to scalping, there was probably more Scarlet available that have been sold before I arrived, so I don't think I prevented one or more kids to get the figure they wanted.

No way! I think scalping is essentially just reselling figures for a higher price. Even with variants, it's still technically scalping because it's charging a lot more than the figure cost originally, but with those it's more accepted because they're rare and unique. You only resold one figure and even then you charged the same price you bought it for, just to recoup the cost.

I have over 250 figures. Aside from the ones I've had imported (Easter Chill, boxed Punch Pop Fizz, boxed Dark Spyro), I haven't had to resort to buying a single figure online.

If you're too impatient to wait and too lazy to work, then pay "scalper" prices and shut up about it. End of story.

Quote: UncleBob

I have over 250 figures. Aside from the ones I've had imported (Easter Chill, boxed Punch Pop Fizz, boxed Dark Spyro), I haven't had to resort to buying a single figure online.

If you're too impatient to wait and too lazy to work, then pay "scalper" prices and shut up about it. End of story.

Well, some don't have the time. Scalpers especially tailor to the group that have the money but no time. But I definitely agree with your statement--don't complain about the prices if you can't be vested enough into on the fly release timeframes/schedules. Personally, I'm tired of jumping to the store every time they get released. They should go subscription based and make my life totally hassle (and scalper) free.

Ghost that's an Awesome Idea! Acti come on go subscription based figures and sell them to us like magazine subs and then every 6 months we get to get a chase figure that would be cool skylanders of the month club.

Quote: GhostRoaster

Well, some don't have the time. Scalpers especially tailor to the group that have the money but no time.

But that's where the patience thing comes in... I can't think of a single figure that I rushed out to get at release that I didn't see some time later on the pegs. And I've gone to a lot of release events. And I'll probably go to several more. But I choose to do that.

There is a lot to be said about patience. Just recently, I learned again what it means. I only had 30 bucks to spend when wave 4 hit. So I got my daughter all but Jet Vac. A couple weeks later when I got paid again, I got Jet Vac from WalMart.com. Paid for shipping. A day or so later my daughter and were hunting at Gamestop and found him. No shipping. Lol. Patience IS a virtue.

Quote: BahamutBreaker

Excellent and thorough post, Melvimbe.

The bottom line is that scalping will exist and will persevere, no matter how much we protest. However, that doesn't mean that we, as a community, shouldn't denounce the practice or that we shouldn't make efforts to decrease the prevalence of scalping. There is no "right" or "wrong" with scalping ... that's all in the eye of the beholder.

I find these two statements contradictory. If there is no right or wrong, why are calling for the community to denounce it?

Quote: BahamutBreaker

However, the objective part of this argument holds that artificially limiting supply of specific figurines and selling them for modest personal profit is good (from a purely economical standpoint) for the game's developers, publishers, distributors, retailers, and the scalper ... but it is bad for the average consumer.

I don't see how this supply is 'artificial'. What makes a supply natural, and what make is artificial?

Quote: BahamutBreaker

Since we know Activision, Target, and Wal-Mart are doing just fine financially, that comparison, from an everyday person's pragmatic viewpoint, boils down to the scalper vs. the average consumer. MOST of us on this forum are going to have little sympathy for the scalper, while readily empathizing with the average consumer.

I don't know that I'm a fan of either side. I am not a fan of misplaced blame or morality judgements.

Quote: BahamutBreaker

I know it's an unsavory comparison, but scalping is not unlike solicitation (prostitution). There is a paying pool of customers for a service (i.e. demand) and there's people who are willing to sacrifice moral standards to gain monetarily (i.e. supply). Where there is supply and demand for a service, a business will evolve in a free market economy, regardless of the moral consequences. It is up to the community to determine how much we will tolerate it. When the practice exceeds our tolerance, we take action to curtail the practice.

That's a horrible comparison in my opinion. Prostitution has real measurable damages and is illegal (in most states). Scalping toys is neither.

Quote: BahamutBreaker

So, really, choosing to condone or condemn "scalping" is a matter of personal comfort or tolerance. You each must decide your tolerance level, and collectively, the average tolerance of the community determines how well the "scalping industry" performs. If it doesn't perform well (i.e. removing the demand), the practice will stop. If it does perform well, it will continue regardless of protests from the minority.

Agreed. However, if scalping were to stop it is much more likely to occur because of changes in the supply, not due to customers no longer purchasing from scalpers.

Quote: RevQuixo

Your argument about # of stores vs scalpers is pretty much invalid. True nationally or internationally there are more stores than scalpers, but locally it is very easy for someone to buy out a store of all their exclusive / low count figures from a shipment. The reality is that in this tight economy stores are not continuously restocking from an endless inventory source...they only try to keep on hand enough to sell through without needing to put it on clearance. Around the holidays this is less of an issue, but this time of year, demand is out-stripping supply on low count figures. This is made worse when you have figures like Zoo Lou eating up shelf space and not selling..if they don't clear em out, they don't get more in.

I agree with you that supply is more limited in certain areas, obviously. However, it's a poor assumption that scalpers buy up the supply in these areas. A scalper would do much better purchasing in an area where there is greater supply, selling to an area with lower supply. In my opinion, other customers and limited original supply are much better reason then scalpers for a lack of a figures retail availability. It can happen, for sure, but to say a scalper selling 14 Scratches on ebay is the reason I can't buy her at my local TRU....doesn't make any sense.

Quote: RevQuixo

What Activision needs to do is the same thing that Mattel & Hasbro have done for years...continue to release chase variants if you want in the wild (knowing that no one outside the select few will find them), but then also set up a Skylanders Club where they themselves sell chase variants to club members at more than retail but less than scalper prices. Personally I'm surprised they haven't done this already as it builds brand loyalty and puts money directly in their pockets.

This sounds pretty similar to what they do for the non-chase variants. Activision can make a profit by selling exclusive rights to retailers. Yes, they could sell other figures themselves, but retailers would not care for this, and much of the profit would be lost in the overhead costs in having to do their own sales.

Quote: UncleBob

Quote: GhostRoaster

Well, some don't have the time. Scalpers especially tailor to the group that have the money but no time.

But that's where the patience thing comes in... I can't think of a single figure that I rushed out to get at release that I didn't see some time later on the pegs. And I've gone to a lot of release events. And I'll probably go to several more. But I choose to do that.

Well, unfortunately you can't attest to availability in all areas. I know that some of the in game variants (Molten and Jade) were especially tricky at retail in my area for example. I never saw those in my area except for the first day or two I looked for them. For the regular characters though, I'd tend to agree with you (in the US). Our international brethren has been mis-handled on more than one occasion by Activision.

Molten and Jade were both available to order from their respective retailers online for about a week after their releases.

As for the international folks... yeah. They're getting screwed by Activision - but this goes back to the OP - at least they have the *option* to order them from "scalpers" if they want. If some folks had their way, "scalping" would be illegal and overseas folks would just be SOL getting some of these figures. I mean, sure, some of us would pick up the figures and ship them at cost - but there's no one here who would do that in any significant quantity (plus, of course, we can't use this forum to organize such services) - but, for the most part, there would just be no way for folks to get access to figures not released in their home country.

Quote:

If you're too impatient to wait and too lazy to work, then pay "scalper" prices and shut up about it. End of story.

ITA. Too many times, patience would have gotten people the figures they wanted without paying scalper prices. The only time I could see me getting upset is if a scalper tried to buy up all new stock while people are there trying to buy them too. That hasn't happened to me yet. There was one time when I felt there were scalpers, but too many other people were looking for the same figures, so they didn't try it.

Regardless, in every instance where I wasn't able to get a figure at initial release, all I had to do was wait and I purchased it later. Besides exclusives, there are too many stores selling Skylanders to be stressing about scalpers. I wasn't able to get Quickdraw Rattle Shake and, if it doesn't come out as a single, then I won't be getting it.

In my experience, scalping was only an issue after Christmas for Spyro's Adventure. The shipments must have been small enough for people to buy out stores as they came in. The hunt was pretty serious back then. Now, you just need to pay attention, or be patient. Scalpers gonna scalp. Go ahead. I'm just not buying.

Scalpers will always exist and some ppl will use them and others will hate them. It's how the world works. Thou Plus sides is finding things not in your area to buy. Downside paying more then you should for said item.

Quote: melvimbe

Wanted to start a thread to discuss the ethics and realities of scalping. For the most part, I don't have a big problem with it, but I thought it would be interesting to discuss the pros and cons. I'll start with a definition, and move to cons first, since it generally seems like people are negative on the concept.

For this thread, I'm going to define scalping as selling a new/unused skylander figure for above normal retail price. The intention of acquiring the skylander (whether through retail, contest, or some other source) is/was to sell the figure.


Cons:
- A scalper will limit the supply available, making it near impossible for normal customers to purchase the skylander.
The math doesn't seem to add up on this, IMO. I could be wrong, but the number of retail stores is much larger then the number of scalpers. For scalpers to have such a dramatic impact, they would have to purchase very large quantities, larger then what I've seen on ebay/amazon. Perhaps their are other outlets I'm not aware of. From discussion I've seen on this board, and shortages of supply at a retail store has been due to a low volume of figures arriving at the store on the truck, not due to scalpers.
- Scalpers are greedy, they shouldn't make a profit off a kids toy.
Retailers, Activision, Toys for Bob, etc. They all make a profit. Not sure why scalpers should be looked at differently
- Scalpers should be responsible and make sure that they leave some figures in the store for other customers
Why is it all on them to do this? It's the store's responsibility to maintain it's stock, not the scalper. If the store doesn't want scalpers to clean them out, then they can limit the amount sold to a customer. I'm sure there are ways around this, but they can make it difficult and less cost effective for the scalper.
- Scalpers overprice their products, tricking naive customers in to spending more they they have to.
I do have somewhat of a problem with this. I do think sellers should be somewhat ethical on this. However, it's the customers job to understand the real value of what they're purchasing in the end.
- Scalpers are not good collectors. If you scalp, then you've lost the respect of your piers. Unless you only scalp at retail price, with the idea that you're providing joy to someone.
Seems rather judgmental to me

<snip>

Personally, I think a lot of the frustration with scalpers is due to frustration with not easily finding the figure you want, and they are the convenient target to blame whether they're responsible or not.

Lots of interesting conversation, I'll just make a few points on the OP's comments.

1. The math does add up. Scalpers cause impact on availability when figures first come out - which is a critical period. Sure they have not much effect later, but if TRU gets in 12 on the first day and the scalper shows up first, they can clean the shelves creating artificial scarcity. If they want to go hog wild on figures that have been out a month, then go nuts. They are taking away an initial opportunity away from people that want them for retail, in order to prevent that and create another completely unnecessary barrier to entry, one which they intend to profit. When someone is responsible for the problem and offers to sell you the solution, that is typically seen as a scam.
2. TfB, Activision, and retailers all add value to the pipeline, scalpers do not. They don't make them. They don't package them, or maintain inventory, or provide a storefront. Sure you can say they offer the same value as a retailer, but they are adding an additional level of overhead to the process. They can't exist without retailers, but retailers can exist without them. They are nothing but an impediment to the whole thing (minus some extreme outliers where people live too far away from a store - but there are no scalpers that exclusively tailor to this market, and online retailers serve it sufficiently). If you owned a store and some yokel stood out front charging your customers to enter, would that be ok? By your statements - hey you are making a profit, why can't they?
3. Stores DO maintain stock. Scalpers dilute that, then if the item doesn't sell, they then return the item at no cost to the store within the return period. By that time, stores have restocked and now have the scalpers items to sell as well. They abuse return policies to turn the store into a risk free wholesaler.
4. Ethical problems are the worst. Search Doom Stone on EBay right now. How many of those auctions guarantee delivery windows? How many of them actually know when it will come out? How many of them can guarantee delivery if it does come out in small numbers initially? They are lying, period. It costs them NOTHING to throw up a speculation auction, then if they can't deliver under the terms, what's their risk? Our whole system is built upon risk versus reward. They short circuit the risk on offering bogus pre-order auctions then just blame TfB if they don't get it, they short circuit the risk of maintaining inventory by returning unsold items to stores making it THEIR problem.

Yes, part of it is frustration at not finding figures. But, they aren't just a convenient target, they cause real damage to fans and retailers. The fans face higher prices, availability issues and more restrictive return policies thanks to them. The retailers have a harder time judging correct stocking levels and serve as a free wholesaler to scalpers, then have to deal with upset customers over more restrictive return periods and not having items they advertise.

We, as a society, needs to stop viewing the pursuit of money as being a justification in itself - the fact that you are seeking a profit is not a virtue. I live in a state where the power company has been dumping toxic waste into our water supply, both intentionally and unintentionally for years. And yet there are still many, many defenders that support them on the basis that they are a highly profitable company that pulled in almost $3 billion in the past year. No, that has NOTHING to do with Skylanders in severity or impact, but it is yet another example of how we give a pass to the business due to profit for things we should condemn. How you make your money IS important, equally important as to how much you make. It isn't ok to act like a douchebag simply because being a douchebag makes money. Stop defending douchebags.

Yes, we are to blame for them existing. Yes, even if every darkspyro user would swear to never buy a scalped figure they would still exist. But, it would do significant damage to their presence if we all stopped.

Quote: defpally

Lots of interesting conversation, I'll just make a few points on the OP's comments.

1. The math does add up. Scalpers cause impact on availability when figures first come out - which is a critical period. Sure they have not much effect later, but if TRU gets in 12 on the first day and the scalper shows up first, they can clean the shelves creating artificial scarcity. If they want to go hog wild on figures that have been out a month, then go nuts. They are taking away an initial opportunity away from people that want them for retail, in order to prevent that and create another completely unnecessary barrier to entry, one which they intend to profit. When someone is responsible for the problem and offers to sell you the solution, that is typically seen as a scam.

You're talking about one store, and no one's saying that it doesn't happen like that at a few stores. However, that only happens at a very few stores. Yes, that stinks for customers of those specific stores, but for a customer to assume a lack of supply is due to scalpers is a rather poor assumption. Again, it's possible, but much more likely to be due to low original stock and other customers beating you to market.

Quote: defpally

2. TfB, Activision, and retailers all add value to the pipeline, scalpers do not.

I and others have listed the value scalpers provide. If you disagree, then I'd love to hear where my logic is incorrect.

Quote: defpally

They don't make them. They don't package them, or maintain inventory, or provide a storefront. Sure you can say they offer the same value as a retailer, but they are adding an additional level of overhead to the process.

They are providing preorder where others do not, the ship directly to you during a time period where others do not. They provide an online presense (through ebay) at a time when others do not.

Quote: defpally

They can't exist without retailers, but retailers can exist without them. They are nothing but an impediment to the whole thing (minus some extreme outliers where people live too far away from a store - but there are no scalpers that exclusively tailor to this market, and online retailers serve it sufficiently).

Yes, scalpers can't exist without retailers, but that means nothing. Retailers can't exist without manufacturers...so what? And if only a small portion of scalper customers are people who can't get it from elsewhere, and that's the only good reason, then the rest of these customers have been duped? They can't get it from the retailer because the scalper bought it already? No, that's not what happens, IMO. I'd say the typical customer doesn't care about price so much as they want it now, they want it easy, and don't want to spend time/money trying to find a better price elsewhere.

Quote: defpally

If you owned a store and some yokel stood out front charging your customers to enter, would that be ok? By your statements - hey you are making a profit, why can't they?

Of course not, but that's not what happens. Scalpers aren't charging at your door, they are buying you're product selling them to someone else. However, if they are turning my customers away by killing my inventory or what have you, I'd take steps to either limit what I sell them or not selling to them at all.

Quote: defpally

3. Stores DO maintain stock. Scalpers dilute that, then if the item doesn't sell, they then return the item at no cost to the store within the return period. By that time, stores have restocked and now have the scalpers items to sell as well. They abuse return policies to turn the store into a risk free wholesaler.

Again, I believe you're overestimating the effect of scalpers. However, if customers/scalpers are abusing my return policy (if I'm the store manager) then I either look at it as the cost of doing business, I again limit the quantity someone can purchase, change my policy, or just no longer sell to that customer.

Quote: defpally

4. Ethical problems are the worst. Search Doom Stone on EBay right now. How many of those auctions guarantee delivery windows?

Six, for the entire US. If it were 6 for the entire Houston area, where I live, then that would be a significant problem. For the whole US, I'm not worried.

Quote: defpally

How many of them actually know when it will come out? How many of them can guarantee delivery if it does come out in small numbers initially? They are lying, period. It costs them NOTHING to throw up a speculation auction, then if they can't deliver under the terms, what's their risk?

They are breaking ebay policy and risk losing the ability to sell on ebay.

Quote: defpally

Our whole system is built upon risk versus reward. They short circuit the risk on offering bogus pre-order auctions then just blame TfB if they don't get it, they short circuit the risk of maintaining inventory by returning unsold items to stores making it THEIR problem.

Agreed that their risk is pretty low, as is their reward. They do have a decent margin, but they have a very low volume.

Quote: defpally

Yes, part of it is frustration at not finding figures. But, they aren't just a convenient target, they cause real damage to fans and retailers. The fans face higher prices, availability issues and more restrictive return policies thanks to them. The retailers have a harder time judging correct stocking levels and serve as a free wholesaler to scalpers, then have to deal with upset customers over more restrictive return periods and not having items they advertise.

And this is where we disagree. I see no evidence of scalpers having such a dramatic effect on the retail market on a macro level. It does happen at certain stores for sure.

Quote: defpally

<snip>... It isn't ok to act like a douchebag simply because being a douchebag makes money. Stop defending douchebags.

I'm not about defending douchebags. I don't even know these people. However,I never said profit at all cost is ok. I'm also not going to say that scalpers provide no value when they do. I won't say that everything a scalper is known for is on the up and up either. I actually think you bring up a rather good point regarding the abuse of return policy.

Quote: defpally

Yes, we are to blame for them existing. Yes, even if every darkspyro user would swear to never buy a scalped figure they would still exist. But, it would do significant damage to their presence if we all stopped.

Again, I'm not seeing the math here. I don't believe that darkspyro members make up a significant portion of scalper customers.

I think we just simply disagree and not much will change that. We'll never see any real data that shows the full impact of scalpers. However, I'm enjoying seeing different viewpoints on the subject.

Not all scalpers are douchebags, and not all scalpers are villainous. Selling skylanders isn't an act of altruism, and imo selling for some "profit" considering ebay fees and time/effort is hardly a money making venture. Considering other hobbies I've had, the money just aren't in these plastic figures...I've seen scalpers get thousands on comics and coins in obvious flipping practices. This is all small stuff.

That being said--scalpers that help to dwindle supply isn't cool--but I must say...it HASN'T impacted me in Swap Force not one bit. this entire conversation is in theory world for the current game.

Btw, darkspyro: your new color combination is PAINFUL.

Quote: melvimbe

You're talking about one store, and no one's saying that it doesn't happen like that at a few stores. However, that only happens at a very few stores. Yes, that stinks for customers of those specific stores, but for a customer to assume a lack of supply is due to scalpers is a rather poor assumption. Again, it's possible, but much more likely to be due to low original stock and other customers beating you to market.

If it is happening at one store then it is happening too often. It doesn't have to occur at every store every time to be a thing. I find your lack of concern for others at those stores ... troubling. Not your problem, eh? I don't have to personally be affected to believe something is wrong.

Quote: melvimbe

I and others have listed the value scalpers provide. If you disagree, then I'd love to hear where my logic is incorrect.

Scalpers add zero additional value for current run figures. They provide value that retailers already provide. We do not need another layer adding additional overhead and raising prices. Leave them out and guess what, no impact - except more availability at the store.

Quote: melvimbe

They are providing preorder where others do not, the ship directly to you during a time period where others do not. They provide an online presense (through ebay) at a time when others do not.

They are claiming to allow you to pre-order something they may never have and have no real idea when they will get it. It's a false sense of security they are offering to make people think they get some sort of guarantee by ordering through them, or be able to get it before stores do. And they get to pay through the nose for it. Those pre-orders are scams. Yes, they might come through with the item eventually, but it is based on a lie.

Quote: melvimbe

Yes, scalpers can't exist without retailers, but that means nothing. Retailers can't exist without manufacturers...so what? And if only a small portion of scalper customers are people who can't get it from elsewhere, and that's the only good reason, then the rest of these customers have been duped? They can't get it from the retailer because the scalper bought it already? No, that's not what happens, IMO. I'd say the typical customer doesn't care about price so much as they want it now, they want it easy, and don't want to spend time/money trying to find a better price elsewhere.

Again, leave out scalpers and it has no negative impact on the market. That means they do not need to be there, and offer no positive value for their premium. In fact, based on typical sell prices, they often take a bigger piece of the pie than the retailers or the people who make the things. That's not good.

Quote: melvimbe

Of course not, but that's not what happens. Scalpers aren't charging at your door, they are buying you're product selling them to someone else. However, if they are turning my customers away by killing my inventory or what have you, I'd take steps to either limit what I sell them or not selling to them at all.

They are preventing customers from buying those figures so they can sell them to people willing to pay more. And if they don't sell them, guess what stores have to front them the inventory FOR FREE when they return it a month later and those figures now are the store's problem to sell. This is how we get more restrictive return policies and restocking fees. Because people take advantage of it. And as you mentioned, you recognize this.

Quote: melvimbe

Six, for the entire US. If it were 6 for the entire Houston area, where I live, then that would be a significant problem. For the whole US, I'm not worried.

The number will start to ramp up significantly soon. Do any of them put up an accurate release date (which we know they don't have) and can they guarantee 30 day delivery per EBay policy and whether they will actually be able to find the figure (what if it isn't common, like Wham Shell for the first game or Pop Fizz LC last year)? If not then they are being deceptive. Period.

Quote: melvimbe

They are breaking ebay policy and risk losing the ability to sell on ebay.

And it happens. ALL. THE. TIME.

Quote: melvimbe

And this is where we disagree. I see no evidence of scalpers having such a dramatic effect on the retail market on a macro level. It does happen at certain stores for sure.

If it happens at ANY store then that is a problem. Again, don't wait for problems to land at your own doorstep before speaking up.

Quote: melvimbe

I'm not about defending douchebags. I don't even know these people. However,I never said profit at all cost is ok. I'm also not going to say that scalpers provide no value when they do. I won't say that everything a scalper is known for is on the up and up either. I actually think you bring up a rather good point regarding the abuse of return policy.

Yes there are decent people that sell figures, but the market is rife with people trying to take advantage of others. Check out the extremely long EBay Fails thread. A little side market, particularly for figures that are not regularly available anymore or chase variants is a good thing, and it provides a reasonable service. If you want Darklight Crypt right now, you aren't going to have any luck at Walmart - go to EBay and have at it. The thing that chaps my hide is the current wave and next figures being sold. Wave 4 (and 5 and pretty much all of Swap Force) does not need a secondary market right now, you can buy them in stores, you can order them online. That guy that posted an auction with a picture of 12 Scratches wasn't providing a service, he cleaned out his Walmart and was trying to cash in from fans before they made it across the country. That's indefensible.

Quote: melvimbe

I think we just simply disagree and not much will change that. We'll never see any real data that shows the full impact of scalpers. However, I'm enjoying seeing different viewpoints on the subject.

I also enjoy a good debate and seeing different opinions.

You assume that everyone can run right out to walmart and grab these things anytime they want, and you are wrong in that regard. You love to point out that he doesn't worry about other peoples problems when you are doing the same thing. Is it fair that they charge a premium to ship to people in an area without a particular store? Maybe not, but that's for the buy to decide not a morals police on a website. Obviously these are selling at a decent pace or they would not bother trying this, just because we don't condone the action does not make it or the people who use it wrong.

Would I scalp a figure? Probably not but I'm also not in a place financially that I would have to. Would I buy a chase variant if I saw one on a shelf? You bet your ass I would. Would I keep it? Debatable, I honestly have no idea if I would or if I would try and make the quick buck a 10 to 1 is hard to pass up and you might do better than that.

Does it suck to go to the store and they not have the guys you are looking for, you bet. Is it always a scalper? No, it can just as easily be a collector buying 3 of the same guy so he can open one for each path and have one still in the box. Do you think collectors are as vile or do you feel bad when you buy 3 of the same guy to do this?

And even scalpers do provide a service to Activision, they increase perceived sales numbers, while not something the average consumer cares about the stockholders do. Even if they bring those figures back at a later date the store will end up selling through them when they clearance them and yes more often than not they still make a profit off clearance items.

I had a rather lengthy section in here about the comparison made to prostitution but I took it out, needless to say this is a stupid comparison and if you feel it's the same see a doctor because you need help.

You can reasonably find the figures online or in most stores within two weeks of when they appear. Wave 4 has been out about 3 weeks and they is practically everywhere and have been for a while. If you cannot find them in Walmart on a trip, ask yourself why. Yes it may be because a whole bunch of fans all went in there and bought them, or you might have just hit that scalper problem you don't think is a problem.

And yes, it is a problem for Activision and their share holders. They set the price of the figures in the range of $10 for regulars. If they thought they should sell for $40 then they would sell them for $40. They sell them at a price where they can expect fans to buy a reasonable number of figures from them. They can either sell them four figures for $40, or they can sell a scalper ONE figure for $10, who then takes the extra $30 for themselves.

Every time a parent can't find a figure that their kid wants for their birthday and resorts to a scalper, every time they take their kid to the store and they don't have anything new, they and their kid get a little more frustrated and a little closer to saying "screw this". High demand does build excitement, to a point. There is a breaking point where people just give up. Marketing is a precarious balance between getting enough to the shelves, but not overstocking where retailers and customers lose interest. They don't need Joe Trailer Park cleaning off the shelves, then returning a bunch of figures if he can't sell them at a profit mucking with the equation. They don't need grandmas looking for little Johnny's birthday gift on Amazon thinking $40 from Cindy Beans is the going rate for one of these little pieces of plastic.

Quote: defpally

Every time a parent can't find a figure that their kid wants for their birthday and resorts to a scalper, every time they take their kid to the store and they don't have anything new, they and their kid get a little more frustrated and a little closer to saying "screw this". High demand does build excitement, to a point. There is a breaking point where people just give up. Marketing is a precarious balance between getting enough to the shelves, but not overstocking where retailers and customers lose interest. They don't need Joe Trailer Park cleaning off the shelves, then returning a bunch of figures if he can't sell them at a profit mucking with the equation. They don't need grandmas looking for little Johnny's birthday gift on Amazon thinking $40 from Cindy Beans is the going rate for one of these little pieces of plastic.

This. Exactly. Perfect; this.

Quote: defpally

You can reasonably find the figures online or in most stores within two weeks of when they appear. Wave 4 has been out about 3 weeks and they is practically everywhere and have been for a while. If you cannot find them in Walmart on a trip, ask yourself why. Yes it may be because a whole bunch of fans all went in there and bought them, or you might have just hit that scalper problem you don't think is a problem.

Again, evidence shows that low supply in a store is much more likely to be due to other customers/collectors and low quantity in the shipment. Scalpers come in after that. Regarding your 14 scratch example earlier, agreed that it's a good possibility that he cleaned out an entire walmart, and that other customers didn't get a chance at it. It's a good possibility that those customers got it from a different walmart, or they didn't because other customers beat them. Some of the scalpers customers could have been duped into paying more they had to, while some may be happy with getting it sooner and not having to drive around and beat out other customers. I really don't know.

In my case, I had to wait for Scratch because (in order of most likely) my store didn't receive it yet, they didn't put it out yet, other customers already depleted the stock, a scalper bought the stock.

Quote: defpally

And yes, it is a problem for Activision and their share holders. They set the price of the figures in the range of $10 for regulars. If they thought they should sell for $40 then they would sell them for $40. They sell them at a price where they can expect fans to buy a reasonable number of figures from them. They can either sell them four figures for $40, or they can sell a scalper ONE figure for $10, who then takes the extra $30 for themselves.

I agree with all this, but don't see how it means that scalpers are a problem for Activision.

Quote: defpally

Every time a parent can't find a figure that their kid wants for their birthday and resorts to a scalper, every time they take their kid to the store and they don't have anything new, they and their kid get a little more frustrated and a little closer to saying "screw this". High demand does build excitement, to a point. There is a breaking point where people just give up. Marketing is a precarious balance between getting enough to the shelves, but not overstocking where retailers and customers lose interest. They don't need Joe Trailer Park cleaning off the shelves, then returning a bunch of figures if he can't sell them at a profit mucking with the equation. They don't need grandmas looking for little Johnny's birthday gift on Amazon thinking $40 from Cindy Beans is the going rate for one of these little pieces of plastic.

My kids love it when I get them a figure they can't find in a store. They aren't thinking screw this, their collection is a little bit more special. And Grandma doesn't care about spending $40 for a figure. To her, it's worth seeing the smile on the Grandkids face. And she has no desire at all to run around town trying to find it in the store. Does Activision care about this? Yes and no. Agreed that some are going to get frustrated and leave. Others, like me, will stay on because they can complete their collection where they couldn't without scalpers and the second hand market.

Quote: defpally

If it is happening at one store then it is happening too often. It doesn't have to occur at every store every time to be a thing. I find your lack of concern for others at those stores ... troubling. Not your problem, eh? I don't have to personally be affected to believe something is wrong.

I have concern for others when there is a need for concern. First off, most people seem to just blame scalpers when they can't find their figure without knowing the real cause. I don't find that worthy of sympathy. Second, half of the fun is in the hunt, and not being able to always find what you're looking for makes it all the better when you do. My kids are disappointed when a store doesn't have the stock, but they are that much more excited when the store does. My kids have learned that sometimes it's better to wait for what you want then immediate gratification. You don't always get what you want when you want. My kids are much better about asking store employees about backroom stock then when we started. And last off, it's a toy. We aren't talking about starvation, loss of a job, or some big emotional lose.

So am I concerned about it...not a lot. No.

Melvimbe, you seem to have invested an inordinate amount of time and energy into a thread about scalping, while claiming that you aren't concerned about scalping.

Odd.

In one post, the concern is that "scalpers" are wiping out the shelves.

In another post, the concern is a consumer will buy a figure for $40 from a "scalper" instead of buying four $10 figures off the shelf.

So, "scalpers" are actually helping to keep folks with too much disposable income from buying more figures, helping to keep stores stocked. At least, from this point of view.

Quote: melvimbe

I have concern for others when there is a need for concern. First off, most people seem to just blame scalpers when they can't find their figure without knowing the real cause. I don't find that worthy of sympathy. Second, half of the fun is in the hunt, and not being able to always find what you're looking for makes it all the better when you do. My kids are disappointed when a store doesn't have the stock, but they are that much more excited when the store does. My kids have learned that sometimes it's better to wait for what you want then immediate gratification. You don't always get what you want when you want. My kids are much better about asking store employees about backroom stock then when we started. And last off, it's a toy. We aren't talking about starvation, loss of a job, or some big emotional lose.

So am I concerned about it...not a lot. No.

Ok, I had no real problem with that until you went there. WHY ARE WE WORRIED ABOUT SKYLANDERS WHEN THERE ARE HUNGRY PEOPLE IN THE WORLD??!?!??!

Because my mind is capable of dealing with more than one thing at a time of varying levels of importance. I'm on a Skylanders forum so you just hear about one of them.

My kids learned that too, they don't get Skylanders when I get them, I still have some Wave 1 stuff they haven't gotten yet put up. Why do you think your kids are special snowflakes in this regard? Most parents don't cater to every whim of their children. He gets them when he accomplishes something. And he doesn't go hunting with me, because the best time to find the figures is almost always when he is in school.

And for the record, I've NEVER missed an initial release of a new Skylanders figure I wanted, I make sure I get what I want - and I help friends find them as well. So none of this affects me personally at all. I'm more interested in the parent that doesn't work right near a TRU like I do with a flexible schedule that I can go check when I need to. The hunt is fine for me, I typically am able to swing it. The hunt isn't fun for the parent that works across town from TRU and has to be at work before most stores open or get off after they close. It sucks for them and their kids.

What's the difference between buying extra figures as a favor to a friend and buying extra figures to sell on eBay?