darkSpyro

Quote: ace

Quote: Darchangel

I don't appreciate some of you guys telling us that we shouldn't be disappointed. I'm entitled to my own opinion.
I don't have a Wii U or 3DS, and probably never will. So while I am glad that other people will be able to better enjoy new Wi-Fi games, I will never enjoy one out of Nintendo again.

In other words, this is doing nothing positive for me personally, only stealing what I paid for...

It happens though. You paid for a handheld system and got a handheld system. You paid for games and got games. As far as i know Nintendo never charged for access to wifi services so what exactly is being stolen? Something you had access to for free is going away. Its had it's run. It happens when things get older.

It's fine by me at this point. No more pokegen and pokedit! now if they could only do away with Powersave -___-

Uh, you ever think maybe I bought a game for the Wi-Fi features. Yeah, that's what I paid for.

What you intend to buy =/= what you paid for.

exactly, which is why it amuses me when i see playstation user complain when online isnt working correctly. Its not a service you pay for, its free. You may buy it to use those features but you arent paying for those features you're paying for a system that can potentially use them. They are free, you're not entitled to them.

I'm not exactly sure how sony works but i can see them doing the same thing with the PS3 in the future unless they have done what microsoft did and switch them to this gen's servers. It's how things progress. New systems come out, people upgrade, not as many people are on the older stuff so it doesnt justify the cost to keep the servers going

Quote: ace

exactly, which is why it amuses me when i see playstation user complain when online isnt working correctly. Its not a service you pay for, its free. You may buy it to use those features but you arent paying for those features you're paying for a system that can potentially use them. They are free, you're not entitled to them.

I'm not exactly sure how sony works but i can see them doing the same thing with the PS3 in the future unless they have done what microsoft did and switch them to this gen's servers. It's how things progress. New systems come out, people upgrade, not as many people are on the older stuff so it doesnt justify the cost to keep the servers going

This post was barely relevant to my point...

Quote: Darchangel

Quote: ace

exactly, which is why it amuses me when i see playstation user complain when online isnt working correctly. Its not a service you pay for, its free. You may buy it to use those features but you arent paying for those features you're paying for a system that can potentially use them. They are free, you're not entitled to them.

I'm not exactly sure how sony works but i can see them doing the same thing with the PS3 in the future unless they have done what microsoft did and switch them to this gen's servers. It's how things progress. New systems come out, people upgrade, not as many people are on the older stuff so it doesnt justify the cost to keep the servers going

This post was barely relevant to my point...

...I was going off of what sonicbrawler posted. It followed along fairly well to your post though, in which case you don't really have much to reply to either of our comments. The point remains that you dont pay for online with Nintendo so you cant complain too loudly when a free service that is outdated is taken away.

Put it this way then:

If you buy a Pokémon game JUST for the online, you are ripping yourself off, because realistically, a game comprising of just online Pokémon battles is not worth a full retail price. However, a game with the online and a single-player adventure is. So when you bought that Pokémon game, you paid for both of those things. However, you only wanted to use the online, therefore, you ripped yourself off, because you only cared for the online portion, yet paid for BOTH the singleplayer and online portion. Not to mention that you HAVE to play the singleplayer to properly play online, because you need to catch Pokémon, train them, buy items, etc.

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Put it this way then:

If you buy a Pokémon game JUST for the online, you are ripping yourself off, because realistically, a game comprising of just online Pokémon battles is not worth a full retail price. However, a game with the online and a single-player adventure is. So when you bought that Pokémon game, you paid for both of those things. However, you only wanted to use the online, therefore, you ripped yourself off, because you only cared for the online portion, yet paid for BOTH the singleplayer and online portion. Not to mention that you HAVE to play the singleplayer to properly play online, because you need to catch Pokémon, train them, buy items, etc.

Your point? The online play seems like a huge part of it to some people rather than the actual story. Many people are willing to buy it just for that.

Quote: DummyZ

Quote: sonicbrawler182

Put it this way then:

If you buy a Pokémon game JUST for the online, you are ripping yourself off, because realistically, a game comprising of just online Pokémon battles is not worth a full retail price. However, a game with the online and a single-player adventure is. So when you bought that Pokémon game, you paid for both of those things. However, you only wanted to use the online, therefore, you ripped yourself off, because you only cared for the online portion, yet paid for BOTH the singleplayer and online portion. Not to mention that you HAVE to play the singleplayer to properly play online, because you need to catch Pokémon, train them, buy items, etc.

Your point? The online play seems like a huge part of it to some people rather than the actual story. Many people are willing to buy it just for that.

Doesn't change the game's price tag.

If you took Pokémon's online mode, and sold it as a standalone product, it would probably be digital only, and would cost €10 at most, compared to the €40 price tag of most new handheld games. When you pay €40 for a brand new Pokémon, you are literally paying for more than the online play. You are paying for everything else in the game too.

So no, Nintendo are not taking away what anyone paid for in this game when they shut down the WFC servers. A fraction of it, maybe, but they've already put out a better version of the same game for you, with BETTER online features (because the 3DS and Wii U's online infrastructure craps ALL OVER Nintendo WFC to begin with).

It's quite ironic how people claim Nintendo are being "selfish", when the people not willing to buy the 3DS (or Wii U, if they were Wii players), are only being like that because they feel they can't afford the system right now. I'm not saying it's wrong to not even be able to afford it, but it's stupid to get angry at Nintendo over the fact (especially in the 3DS's case, as the system is great value and pretty cheap to boot. The latest iPhone costs more than a 3DS). If you're not willing to save up for and buy new systems, then you don't deserve to have them in the first place, because money needs to be made for the technology to advance.

What I meant was, I love single-player and online on Pokemon. but neither one is complete without the other. I probably would not have paid for the game without online. I will probably never complete the darn pokedex. (and before anyone says anything, I won't use cheat codes.) bottom line, I paid for both things, I'm losing half.

And, for what will hopefully be the last time, I do not have a 3DS or Wii U, and so can not play Pokemon X or Y if that's what you were referring to. Not that your statement about it being a better version of the same game was at all true. Real Pokemon fans know the difference.

Quote:

What I meant was, I love single-player and online on Pokemon. but neither one is complete without the other.

So you're saying Gen I - Gen III are not complete games?

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Not that your statement about it being a better version of the same game was at all true. Real Pokemon fans know the difference.

...Actually, it is. Because it's literally the same thing, only bigger and better, especially in regards to online functionality (as I already said, the 3DS's online infrastructure is MILES better than WFC. This is an objective fact). And to be honest, the DS Pokémon games had the least interesting worlds, and X and Y FINALLY gave us a fully 3D world and characters, and took advantage of the concept (which could have been done on the DS. Wouldn't have looked as nice, but it would have been better than using sprites again. I know some parts of the DS games were 3D, but they didn't really make interesting use of it for the most part). X and Y also added a bunch of things Pokémon fans wanted for years (more extensive character customisation, a proper counter to the Dragon Type Pokémon to help further balance the competitive scene, etc).

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I will probably never complete the darn pokedex.

You can if you get X and Y. You can transfer your Pokémon over to it, and pick up where you left off, while also having MORE Pokémon to put in it, AND a new world to explore.

X and Y definitaly are major improvements over any previous gens. Just by looking and keeping your ears open a real Pokemon fan can see that. The only thing any previous gen game has over it is the story length and size of the map. If online is that big of a selling point for you then Xor Y seem ideal. They seem built with online in mind since they have made it so easy to bread and raise competitive pokemon. At this point older games are for nostalgic value or to catch pokemon you need to transfer.

I'm saying that Gen IV and V are incomplete without online. Stop putting words in my mouth.

And it is not the same game. The story's different, the appearances of Pokemon are different, the characters are different, some features are missing. (Contests for example.) Not to mention, I personally don't like the 3D art, but that's just me.
I could go on and on. It's like saying Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 are the same game.

And nothing you can say is gonna change my mind, so drop it.

Nobody is putting words in your mouth, simply stating what your implying by your comments. And yeah they arent the same game, but the general structure for every pokemon game is the same. Yes the characters are different and the story varies but in the end you start at your home town, get 8 badges, fight an evil organization, each character fills a reoccurring role, and usually there is a legendary involved with the story. Online gets less important the further back you go.

Its unfortunate for you but things move forward. The general mass of pokemon fans progress with the games. I knew well in advance that pokemon would be coming to the 3ds because it was the obvious next step which gave me plenty of time to save for one considering its been out for a few years. Nobody is forcing you to upgrade, or keep up with current games but you cant really be mad or surprise when you're left behind. If you dont like the 3d models it's fine, you can stick with gen 5 and lower since the sprites arent coming back

Quote: Darchangel

I'm saying that Gen IV and V are incomplete without online. Stop putting words in my mouth.

And it is not the same game. The story's different, the appearances of Pokemon are different, the characters are different, some features are missing. (Contests for example.) Not to mention, I personally don't like the 3D art, but that's just me.
I could go on and on. It's like saying Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 are the same game.

And nothing you can say is gonna change my mind, so drop it.

If Gen IV and V lacked online after having being announced to have online, and no official cancellation was made, they would be incomplete games, much like GTA V when that launched without online (and when the online launched, it was a buggy mess). However, if Gen IV and V never ended up having online planned, and released as offline games, they'd still be complete games, as the feature would not be planned to begin with. A "complete" game is not defined by what you personally want in a game, it is defined by whether or not the game launches with all of the content that was planned and announced (unless these things are announced as cancelled BEFORE the release), and whether or not these features are fully implemented and playtested.

And when I say Gen VI is "the same game", I mean it's just an evolution of the EXACT same formula. It's the same game as past generations, except bigger and better and more refined. Things like the story and characters being different don't really mean anything to how the game itself plays, and the new world can just be seen as a huge expansion pack (not to mention that you said yourself you bought the game for the online, so those details should be irrelevant to you). This is not me criticising Pokémon though, rather, I'm pointing out that you have no excuse to be against the decision to shut down WFC if you just upgrade to the objectively better online mode in X & Y (which is LITERALLY the same as past games, but with better online infrastructure and more options than before).

Also, making a comparison between the Galaxy games and this is flawed, as Galaxy 1 and 2 are very different games with different design philosophies. Galaxy 1 had a more complex structure, and was very focused on story and atmosphere, introducing the character of Rosalina, and showing off how the Wii was more powerful than the Gamecube. To the point where a lot of people realise that Galaxy 1 wasn't exactly amazing in the gameplay and level design department, as a lot of missions were either boring or tedious (when they weren't, they were very good, but it was not a consistent level of fun). Galaxy 2, on the other hand, focused purely on having crazy level design that didn't even have much theming, in a lot of cases, that were much more ambitious and fun. They felt like very different games, despite using the same controls.

*AHEM!*
Quote: Darchangel

I'm saying that Gen IV and V are incomplete without online. Stop putting words in my mouth.

And it is not the same game. The story's different, the appearances of Pokemon are different, the characters are different, some features are missing. (Contests for example.) Not to mention, I personally don't like the 3D art, but that's just me.
I could go on and on. It's like saying Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 are the same game.

And nothing you can say is gonna change my mind, so drop it.

Quote: Darchangel

*AHEM!*
Quote: Darchangel

I'm saying that Gen IV and V are incomplete without online. Stop putting words in my mouth.

And it is not the same game. The story's different, the appearances of Pokemon are different, the characters are different, some features are missing. (Contests for example.) Not to mention, I personally don't like the 3D art, but that's just me.
I could go on and on. It's like saying Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 are the same game.

And nothing you can say is gonna change my mind, so drop it.

*ahem* If you want it dropped then dont respond. Your the one who doesnt want to be involved in the subject anymore so take some initiative. Simple as that skippy

Quote: Darchangel

*AHEM!*
Quote: Darchangel

I'm saying that Gen IV and V are incomplete without online. Stop putting words in my mouth.

And it is not the same game. The story's different, the appearances of Pokemon are different, the characters are different, some features are missing. (Contests for example.) Not to mention, I personally don't like the 3D art, but that's just me.
I could go on and on. It's like saying Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 are the same game.

And nothing you can say is gonna change my mind, so drop it.

Just because you're trying to use a scapegoat to dodge my responses when you're the one who's making incorrect points, doesn't mean I'm going to listen. You don't have to respond, but I am fully entitled to say whatever I want on the subject, whether you like it or not.

You guys are so immature.
Every point you made was invalid, and even if I was wrong, and I'm not, my opinion's not gonna change so arguing with me is pointless.

Way to go everyone, we've completely trashed this topic. I'm gonna be the mature one here and walk away now, bye!

Quote: Darchangel

You guys are so immature.
Every point you made was invalid, and even if I was wrong, and I'm not, my opinion's not gonna change so arguing with me is pointless.

Way to go everyone, we've completely trashed this topic. I'm gonna be the mature one here and walk away now, bye!

Cause the mature thing is to complain, insult, and leave......logic

Things have been on topic, you're mad because your complaints were easily defused. Tootles skippy

Well looks like I won't be getting Pachycephalasaurus in Dinosaur King DS
*goes hoping to win enough matches in time*

Quote: Darchangel

You guys are so immature.
Every point you made was invalid, and even if I was wrong, and I'm not, my opinion's not gonna change so arguing with me is pointless.

Way to go everyone, we've completely trashed this topic. I'm gonna be the mature one here and walk away now, bye!

Have fun living in the past, where you can't learn to grow up! ^.^