darkSpyro

No gimmick is fine by me. They should focus on improving the replayability of the game than adding in a new mechanic. With so many figures, there needs to be some thought put into ways of making the game more fun to play through multiple times. I play with my son, and we've finished the game once with only 10 or so characters, and it already feels like a chore to play through again with the constant interruptions for dialog, cutscenes, and other things that don't involve fighting enemies and navigating puzzles.

I heartily agree. If they want this to be a long lasting franchise they better step up the game.

No more glaring bugs like portal rank disappearing for no reason or the many others I won't list.
If there ARE bugs then god damn at least patch them, all the consoles allow that now!

SORT OUT THE LOADING! A lot of the unskippable cut-scenes are to cover up loading times This should not be the case in any modern game. I am pretty sure Skyrim wasn't this frustrating in loading stuff.
Needless dialogue and cut-scenes should always be skippable!

The level selection on SF was NOT child friendly. What's wrong with having paths/routes from the woodburrow/ship/island that take you into levels?

The idea of elemental "gates" or Swap Zones is just silly. Make it an area only characters with a certain ability can get through.
Have a High wall that only "climbers" can climb or a wide river that only water characters can cross, Lava for fire characters. Anything to make the areas feel connected.

The whole thing is too disjointed. You get, Menu, Level, Gate, Transition to zone, zone, transition back, Level.
It SHOULD be simply walking between different areas in the world.

I hope somebody from TFB/Activision is reading this

@Pyrofer I'm hoping some of the game mechanics we don't like were just because a different developer was in charge. I think TFB knows what works better. I also wonder though, if there's anything that's been copyrighted by them that VV just wasn't allowed to use. I really don't know much about copyrights between developers of the same franchise tbh.

Just how much does Actvision look at on here? Do they read everything, or do they skim the thread titles to see what're the hottest topics? And do they take into account the imput from parents who are getting tired of the lack of info on release dates? Some parents might be willing to constantly check stores, but most just don't have time. If they push this too much, they could lose more parents and therefore, have less kids playing the game. Even if it's the biggest game-changer, if parents are tired of the chase, they'll lose overall in sales.

Activision and TFB made a few accounts on here, so... they're very likely skimming the forums for anything going on.

I am pretty sure the developer doesn't worry about copyright. Once they are hired to write the game they get the rights to use all Activisions copyrights and patents. So any TFB used are available to VV etc, Activision actually own them all and let whatever developer use them. So no worries there.

It is possible it was just differing styles between VV and TFB, if so that bodes well for 4.

I feel very strongly that fixed cut-scenes and long loading times are something out of the last generation of hardware not the current or even "next gen" stuff. There is no excuse for quite how badly SF made us sit around waiting for stuff.

I would rather be running along a path hacking at greebles while the level at the end of the path loads than watching a cut scene that you can't skip or listening to "Welcome back to Woodburrow Skylander" for the billionth time.

The natural experience of walking around a starting location and actually going to different places rather than loading a menu and picking from a list is MUCH better, especially for kids. Having a linear progression through levels is fine for first run through, but when you finish the game you STILL WANT TO PLAY and you still want it to be fun, otherwise you lose the interest in buying figures after you complete it.

People have said "open world" isn't right for Skylanders but I think they misunderstood what I meant. The "home" location needs to be much bigger with things to find and do. It needs things only certain elements can get to. SSA had a much better "home" world than Giants or SF, go back to that and expand it a bit please!
Also, have the levels accessible from it without menus. Paths, forks in the path, signs to places. More natural. Have a tunnel you jump down, a river you slide down, a hill to climb etc.
Make the levels bigger with as I said before the zones and element areas more integrated.

The whole world needs to feel more like a world.

TFB, if you are reading this please PLEASE take some of this into consideration, I really do think it would put SK4 in a whole new class when it comes to game play.

^
---

Pyofer, agreed...and I would go so far as to say open world CAN be appropriate for skylanders, if designed and implemented correctly. Scenes should help progress story, not just be the fluff you have to watch at the beginning and end of a "chapter". Subtle stuff but makes for a better experience.

The lack of controls over the videos knocks a whole star for me in terms of liking the game. What were they thinking?

They tried to use the videos to cover load times. They obviously knew the loading was an issue but went about hiding it instead of fixing it.

I hope they read this thread, as fans of the game we want them to do well so it's in their best interest to at least listen to what is said here.

I wonder if they will ever drive the game closer towards Zelda, with more elements based puzzles and dungeon type levels around a hub world. I guess it wouldn't be very kid friendly.

Is that kind of what you guys are thinking though when you say open world? Like a Zelda over world with a town and enemies on it to fight through and 'dungeon' stage entrances around the map?

I don't know about you guys but I really like lock puzzles. It would be nice if there was randomly generated lock puzzles to do every day and you could get hats or treasure from finishing them. If they did something like that, that would be awesome

I really there won't be gimmicks, but if they don't then the toy sales would probably decrease sadly.

I really dislike the use of the term gimmicks when we are talking about technological innovation on the toy. Sure, Giants was less of an innovation, but they introduced lightcore then.

Coupled with that is great MARKETING, which sells product.

If you guys insist with the dumbed down terminology, have at it.

Quote: GhostRoaster

I really dislike the use of the term gimmicks when we are talking about technological innovation on the toy. Sure, Giants was less of an innovation, but they introduced lightcore then.

Coupled with that is great MARKETING, which sells product.

If you guys insist with the dumbed down terminology, have at it.

I personally think "gimmick" is a fitting word because the flavor of the day seems to fall out of the spotlight after debut. Giants? there are only 8. and their role in Swap Force was kind of laughable. Swap Force? i doubt we'll ever see more than the 16 in this game. Note: I like the series, all 3 games, and I am fine with this being the system of the franchise.

Quote: gta1134

I would be happy to see the next game run a no "gimmick" approach.

Yeah by this point, most of us wish that would happen, but from what we know about Activision, that may never happen. Of course there's nothing wrong with dreaming, but yeah Activision isn't going to go simple from here on out and I kinda see why. With Disney Infinity now throwing their hat on the field, they need to out shine them in order to stay in the game.

"they need to out shine them in order to stay in the game."

Yup, that is exactly right. The way to do that is look at the BEST part of infinity, the sandbox and work out why it was so popular.

I call the Swap Force figures a "gimmick" because really it plays NO PART in the game at all. You can complete the game without even having a SF character. The zones are pointless extra mini-games.

IF the SF abilities had a role in the actual levels it would be different but they don't. It was totally just a gimmick.

Can/Should they do something new with the figures? Why not? Who cares! However they can NOT afford to neglect the game and gameplay this time round.

Quote: AzureStarline

Quote: GhostRoaster

I really dislike the use of the term gimmicks when we are talking about technological innovation on the toy. Sure, Giants was less of an innovation, but they introduced lightcore then.

Coupled with that is great MARKETING, which sells product.

If you guys insist with the dumbed down terminology, have at it.

I personally think "gimmick" is a fitting word because the flavor of the day seems to fall out of the spotlight after debut. Giants? there are only 8. and their role in Swap Force was kind of laughable. Swap Force? i doubt we'll ever see more than the 16 in this game. Note: I like the series, all 3 games, and I am fine with this being the system of the franchise.

So, anytime a game company changes something in their franchise to increase interest/sales...that's a "gimmick"? Think about what these companies do on the digitial end of this, and you'll realize you've been duped for longer than you think.

For me, toys make the appearance of a "gimmick" more obvious than gameplay changes--but for me personally...it's an innovation first, driven by marketing. If you took the time to realize the brain power to drive that "gimmick" I think you'd appreciate it a bit more.

Anywho...skylanders 4 is a game changer....yawn...almost two months of no Swap Force figures...forgotten all about this franchise...which is kinda nice.

Quote: Pyrofer

"they need to out shine them in order to stay in the game."

Yup, that is exactly right. The way to do that is look at the BEST part of infinity, the sandbox and work out why it was so popular.

I call the Swap Force figures a "gimmick" because really it plays NO PART in the game at all. You can complete the game without even having a SF character. The zones are pointless extra mini-games.

IF the SF abilities had a role in the actual levels it would be different but they don't. It was totally just a gimmick.

Can/Should they do something new with the figures? Why not? Who cares! However they can NOT afford to neglect the game and gameplay this time round.

The best part of Infinity is not the sand box mode, it is the characters they have at their disposal. Many parents from my son's school comment on how after a few plays that their children stop playing Infinity because of the lack of direction. Admittedly I have no experience with the game, but for skylanders target audience it might be reaching too far. For older players I agree sand box sounds cool but if you are 5 or 6 do you think they would be able to make the levels?

Quote: gta1134

Quote: Pyrofer

"they need to out shine them in order to stay in the game."

Yup, that is exactly right. The way to do that is look at the BEST part of infinity, the sandbox and work out why it was so popular.

I call the Swap Force figures a "gimmick" because really it plays NO PART in the game at all. You can complete the game without even having a SF character. The zones are pointless extra mini-games.

IF the SF abilities had a role in the actual levels it would be different but they don't. It was totally just a gimmick.

Can/Should they do something new with the figures? Why not? Who cares! However they can NOT afford to neglect the game and gameplay this time round.

The best part of Infinity is not the sand box mode, it is the characters they have at their disposal. Many parents from my son's school comment on how after a few plays that their children stop playing Infinity because of the lack of direction. Admittedly I have no experience with the game, but for skylanders target audience it might be reaching too far. For older players I agree sand box sounds cool but if you are 5 or 6 do you think they would be able to make the levels?

The thing is people play games differently. Some people LOVE sandbox games, others don't. I'm not a huge fan of open world or sandbox non-directed, do anything kind of games. Others cannot get enough of them. Having fun in the sandbox requires a good bit of out of the box imagination. I personally prefer a good directed story (even if the story is light), but my youngest loves just running around and playing in Infinity. I think Infinity and Skylanders are great, because they can co-exist in the market without major overlap, at least if you leave out the figure collecting aspect. If you gotta collect them all, then obviously most people would choose one or the other, but people that pick based on the gameplay style they like have two really great options. Comparing Infinity and Skylanders is like comparing GTA to Call of Duty - they both serve their genre well, and their strengths do not overlap.

Quote:

Anywho...skylanders 4 is a game changer....yawn...almost two months of no Swap Force figures...forgotten all about this franchise...which is kinda nice.

I assume there are greater marketing minds than mine at Activision, but this does seem shortsighted. This is the first time I have been on here in a while because nothing is happening, no characters are being released, the game has gotten stale. My boys don't even ask to go into shops to see if any new characters are out and they are spending their pocket money on Infinity characters. I can't remember the last time they played SF.

The thing I don't get is that SF had momentum over the Christmas period. The game itself I find boring. I haven't played it in a long time now. The companies best chance of getting myself and my boys to part with our cash for new characters was just after New Years before we got sick of playing the game. I will be interested to see how well they sell when the next waves come out. Personally I don't see us buying them. We have sooooo many Stealth Elfs, Eruptors, Spyro's etc. We really can't be bothered buying more of the same. And there is no real motivation to buy any of the new characters now because we could only use them in SF and we are sick of playing it.

As for 'game changer' - the best change in my opinion is to NEVER release another repose ever again. Have only new characters and focus on replayability. But I can't see that happening.

What I would want is something like Giants, with only 16 new characters, as my opinion about this is the less, the better. They could also just release 8 reposes, and just 8 Lightcores, giving us a perfect 32, what SSA had. There can be some variants here and there, that are not Lightcore or a repose. They could even keep the Battle Packs and the Adventure packs. I just want a game with less figures, and more in game content.

I love Open World games. If TFB created an open world game for Skylanders, I might just get back to it, with the reasons above being fulfilled. It would be fun just to beat up enemies in the hub world, and go to areas that haven't accessed before in the enemy area, with none of those special gates, just a little hint. Then, at the end there would be a little cash prize, a Sapphire, maybe a hat, but nothing to special. What they should also do is just have more things to do with the money you've earned.

I do have an idea of what they could do with the money. What if the hub world was a town in progress, and it only had the necessities for the main characters to live in, and for the Skylanders to upgrade? Well, with the money earned, you could build a bank to deposit and withdraw money, or more houses for people to live in, or for you to explore. There could even be a gallery to view all of your collectibles from the game. You could even choose were to place the buildings, making the town more unique. You could even name the town!

I would love something like this. But I am sure this might never happen.

I know it's too late in the development cycle now but it would have been nice to have a "vote for the repose" type of pole so instead of getting figures people complain about we could get the ones people are asking for. It would also be nice if they did a cap on the amount of different series. 2 different wow pows are more than enough.

Honestly, Skylanders is at a crossroads - and this thread shows it.

It's a kid's game that little little kids can access because it's straight forward, yet as it's audience's age has increased, the interest in going open world or adding things that would make it 'deeper' has increased.

So it can remain a kids game or grow. Disney Infinity is 'mildly' a kids game - the fact that you don't really die lends to that, but being open world it requires a little more than the linear Skylanders series.

I like both sides of the coin, I like how accessible it is, that's a BIG part o the allure for me, yet I also know that I've dropped WAY too much money on it for it to be so 'limiting'. I have figure-fatigue because as I've mentioned in other threads I don't play the friggin game because I don't want to run through it before I have all the figures I want. A more open world would help fix that. I mean for all the thoughts about DI copying Skylanders, well Skylanders would be wonderful to copy from DI...imagine taking the open world of DI and applying various Skylander aspects - walking on water, climbing up buildings, using tech to fix vehicles or stuff to access areas.

But doing all that WOULD make it so my son can' really play anymore.

So I can't say for sure which way I think they should go. But they NEED PATCHING and all future chase variants need to be in-game variants. Dagonit - I bought a metallic chick in a tank, I want her to be metallic in game too haha
- Unreall

Also, importing previous game content into the new game. Maybe via presentation of a disk to show ownership or a purchased code, but it sucks to have to load a different disk for each game. Sometimes we want SSA levels, sometimes Giants, etc.

If they did that they could also look at back-porting 'some' characters to the older game levels. Obviously Giants wouldn't fit in some SSA stuff but no reason Rollerblade etc couldn't.

There is much they could do and I think they should start letting us know their plans early so if it's garbage we can tell them

Of course keep it so kids can play, I am not saying fully open world or totally free sandbox, but getting to levels via a menu ONLY sucks. and even my 4 year old gets bored of walking around Wood Burrow quite quickly with no real enemies and nowhere to go.

Quote: Pyrofer

Also, importing previous game content into the new game. Maybe via presentation of a disk to show ownership or a purchased code, but it sucks to have to load a different disk for each game. Sometimes we want SSA levels, sometimes Giants, etc.

If they did that they could also look at back-porting 'some' characters to the older game levels. Obviously Giants wouldn't fit in some SSA stuff but no reason Rollerblade etc couldn't.

There is much they could do and I think they should start letting us know their plans early so if it's garbage we can tell them

Of course keep it so kids can play, I am not saying fully open world or totally free sandbox, but getting to levels via a menu ONLY sucks. and even my 4 year old gets bored of walking around Wood Burrow quite quickly with no real enemies and nowhere to go.

I like the idea of bringing in old levels. Maybe having a section in the main Hub World that has a gate that only regular characters can enter (i.e. no giants) and have a mini hub world of SSA levels. And if you were to swap to a Giant while in said zone, it could say something like 'giants are not allowed in this section'. And then a second gate for giants levels.

The problem being they wouldn't be able to jump in these levels unless they drastically change them around.

This is an interesting article and opinion.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/an...kylanders-2014/

I like the idea of redoing some old levels or at least make the level packs available in all the games, yeah it might require some reworking but I think it would be worth it to many of the gamers.
Also there is no way they are going to let us know what they are working on early enough to make a difference, if they did they would have to worry about other companies grabbing their ideas and running them on different games. Even if they did take our input no one would ever agree on the ideas so it would either never get made or it would just not take input from people which is what they are doing now. I'm sure they have a focus group that gives them the ideas they run now.

Quote: Unreallystic

It's a kid's game that little little kids can access because it's straight forward, yet as it's audience's age has increased, the interest in going open world or adding things that would make it 'deeper' has increased. So it can remain a kids game or grow.

They've already stated (Lou Studdard I believe) that the game is about being ALL INCLUSIVE to their target market....so growing isn't an option. They've conceded they know they will lose the original audience as a result, or even the many adults who want change but will probably not receive it. I think they think that marketing thinks that they can make up that lose for the next batch of 6-10 year olds.

We are officially in the game franchise paradox, I'm afraid.

Quote: GhostRoaster

Quote: Unreallystic

It's a kid's game that little little kids can access because it's straight forward, yet as it's audience's age has increased, the interest in going open world or adding things that would make it 'deeper' has increased. So it can remain a kids game or grow.

They've already stated (Lou Studdard I believe) that the game is about being ALL INCLUSIVE to their target market....so growing isn't an option. They've conceded they know they will lose the original audience as a result, or even the many adults who want change but will probably not receive it. I think they think that marketing thinks that they can make up that lose for the next batch of 6-10 year olds.

We are officially in the game franchise paradox, I'm afraid.

Bah, I wish this forum had a "Like"/"Insightful", that's good info. So that really points to expecting more of the same with slight engine tweaks and a 'gimmick' for lack of better term with each iteration.
- Unreall

This bothers me a lot. If that were truly the case why make a new game AT ALL.

They could just do a big marketing push each year before xmass and have some deals on the game. As it would be for "new" players who hadn't seen it before they wouldn't care that it was 3 years old.

Truth is they KNOW that while it is aimed at 8 year olds etc they are not the ones with the wallet full of cash. They have to hook an older audience who can PAY for the game and figures.
"Pester power" from young children isn't enough to get the sales they want so if older children and parents playing with them get nothing out of the game it will die rapidly.

Who wants to buy a 3 year old game that they don't enjoy just because their son has suddenly decided he wants it?

The reason it's had 3 versions of the game and new figures etc is the know it needs to be kept fresh and interesting. Especially as they need to compete with other new games all the time.

^ Look, I agree but the reason should be obvious:

(It's just a joke guys... Cool your jets... My butt ain't that tight. )

I saw a post a long time ago here about how someone bought new Pokémon games not because the gameplay had significant changes or anything but for the improvements they made to the formula, which I agree with- I think you can make sequels to just improve things, because there's always something you can tweak and revise- but I fear they're going to hit a roadblock soon on that front where any improvements will be menial and they won't be hugely changing anything to keep it exciting. Or they'll just keep changing things and never figure out how exactly they want the game to be and never really "master" it(I posted about how I felt SF ruined too many things I liked about Skylanders a while ago, but can't be bothered to find it, however that's basically what I'm getting at if you've seen said post).

Regardless wether it's worth it is more subjective and I don't think it's worth $500 more for a new game just because it has "improvements"- personally I like to go for a full set or bust, if you buy less figures then you'll probably get more bang for your buck from it. The problem with Skylanders is that it isn't just a regular disc game, depending on how much you want to buy it could cost hundreds. And for that the formula had better be darn near perfect but... While initially brilliant and at the least very very solid, it lacks much interesting replayability and has quite a few issues, many of which have been bought up on these forums and even this very topic...

But as I said it's subjective, depending on your buying habits, wether it is worth it- if you choose to spend $100s that's exactly it, it's YOUR CHOICE, but I do believe the companies in charge of the series should keep some balance with how many toys are available and how much replayability you can get from them. Like, we don't need five versions of Eruptor. It's your choice if you buy them, but it still reeks of greed for them to repose and milk that one popular character, and I think we would all enjoy a new repose of Sunburn rather than a new version of Eruptor who (IMO) has an inferior Wow Pow to the version which was available last year. Now, not only do we have Series 1, 2 and 3 Eruptor- at least the Series 2 & 3 versions DO DIFFERENT THINGS- but we have TWO INGAME VARIANTS OF HIM (LightCore and Volcanic) THAT AREN'T DIFFERENT FROM OTHER AVAILABLE VERSIONS AT ALL. Not just one, but TWO of those. That's just unnessicary. The same goes for Spyro (S1, S1 Legendary, S1 Dark, S2, S3, S3 Dark) and Stealth Elf (S1, S2, S2 Legendary, S3, S3 Dark) and Trigger Happy(S1, S1 Legendary, S2, S3, S3 Springtime). Imagine if you're aiming to completely max out everything like I am, now, you have to do Spyro SIX TIMES OVER(though that's just me venting). Besides... Who wants SIX SPYROS? Who's really so fussy that they need SIX SPYROS to choose between? Why do we need SIX SPYROS? Same with the other characters I listed- and we can see characters like Jet-Vac who have a ridiculous amount of variants as well. But, we all know why they're doing it: because it's an easy, safe way for them to get some money...

I'm just kind of mad about the franchise in general at this point, but I hope you guys can see the point I'm trying to make. I'd like to see them just perfect the game but the way it's going I think it's a bit too samey and the series currently has some really annoying issues. However, the issue is if they want to "perfect" the game this probably cuts into the time they can use to come up with new ideas and they may end up relying on and recycling a formula if they took it to the extreme. But there must be some balance they can strike, right?

Besides everything else I've said in this post, I think they need to do one of two things with their sequels: either IMPROVE THE FORMULA AND MAKE TWEAKS WHERE NEEDED with each iteration or CHANGE THINGS ENOUGH TO KEEP PEOPLE INTERESTED(while keeping appealing aspects from previous games where appropriate). Or alternate lol. Where you draw the line... Ehh... Like I said, while there's definitely gotta be some objective point that appeals to the most possible people it's more subjective. I personally think SF got rid of too much stuff...

Honestly, I don't know how I feel about SF any more. It has some massive improvements over the last games but it fails at some important things they did as well, like storytelling- like I said, people have gone over this stuff. I enjoyed SF but it wasn't what I wanted... And I mean that in the "oh, kinda disappointing" way rather than the "I liked this in ways I wasn't expecting" way.

Arc just gave me an idea. Maybe instead of making so many new characters for one game, make the same amount of characters and create 3 games that go along with the characters. For example, spyros adventure had green base skylanders, giants had orange base characters, and swap force had blue base characters. Many collectors are going to want all the characters/lightcores/in game variants. Therefore, instead of playing the same game (swap force for example) with all those same characters. Make 3 versions of swap force for 3 years and focus on the game itself instead of the characters. This will give us a chance to collect all the characters and not have to keep playing the same levels and missions over and over.

Quote: FlameSlinger11

Arc just gave me an idea. Maybe instead of making so many new characters for one game, make the same amount of characters and create 3 games that go along with the characters. For example, spyros adventure had green base skylanders, giants had orange base characters, and swap force had blue base characters. Many collectors are going to want all the characters/lightcores/in game variants. Therefore, instead of playing the same game (swap force for example) with all those same characters. Make 3 versions of swap force for 3 years and focus on the game itself instead of the characters. This will give us a chance to collect all the characters and not have to keep playing the same levels and missions over and over.

I'd rather they keep doing what they are doing, and instead just release additional 'Arcade' style games for like XBLA or the PS Store so that you can use the figures in more games. They could release a racing game. They could release that one Dave'n'Buster type game they have. They can do some puzzle games. I wouldn't mind coming out of pocket for little onsey twosy games like that.
- Unreall

I saw the same video as you did ghost, I just couldn't place where I did.
I sort of liken this franchise to a madden football or call of duty for children, the game looks a bit different each year, throws in a new "mechanic" or "gimmick" and gives you a different roster. But it will in the end be pretty easy to tell it's a skylanders game. Is that for the best? Who knows, it obviously did for quite sometime with those franchises so it may here too. Will they lose some people for keeping it the same? Yes, but they would also lose some people for making it different so it's hard to say which would be the better long term answer, and they may even change their mind later and go more mature with it and target the audiences they lost to the age gap. Just because it's their stance now doesn't mean it will be in the future. It will be nice to see what they can do with the franchise going into the future, though I do think they need to revisit how they decide which characters get the reposes and which take a sideline.

Quote: gta1134

I saw the same video as you did ghost, I just couldn't place where I did.
I sort of liken this franchise to a madden football or call of duty for children, the game looks a bit different each year, throws in a new "mechanic" or "gimmick" and gives you a different roster. But it will in the end be pretty easy to tell it's a skylanders game. Is that for the best? Who knows, it obviously did for quite sometime with those franchises so it may here too. Will they lose some people for keeping it the same? Yes, but they would also lose some people for making it different so it's hard to say which would be the better long term answer, and they may even change their mind later and go more mature with it and target the audiences they lost to the age gap. Just because it's their stance now doesn't mean it will be in the future. It will be nice to see what they can do with the franchise going into the future, though I do think they need to revisit how they decide which characters get the reposes and which take a sideline.

I will tell you what happen if they stay the same. The franchise will die fast just like guitar hero

Quote: nitendofan92

Quote: gta1134

I saw the same video as you did ghost, I just couldn't place where I did.
I sort of liken this franchise to a madden football or call of duty for children, the game looks a bit different each year, throws in a new "mechanic" or "gimmick" and gives you a different roster. But it will in the end be pretty easy to tell it's a skylanders game. Is that for the best? Who knows, it obviously did for quite sometime with those franchises so it may here too. Will they lose some people for keeping it the same? Yes, but they would also lose some people for making it different so it's hard to say which would be the better long term answer, and they may even change their mind later and go more mature with it and target the audiences they lost to the age gap. Just because it's their stance now doesn't mean it will be in the future. It will be nice to see what they can do with the franchise going into the future, though I do think they need to revisit how they decide which characters get the reposes and which take a sideline.

I will tell you what happen if they stay the same. The franchise will die fast just like guitar hero

To be fair, the death of Guitar Hero had more to do with Rockband and then oversaturation of the market with rhythm games. Disney Infinity 'could' be a Rockband, but out the gate, Rockband was just a better product, not so with DI. I don't think Activision is going to shoot themselves in the foot much the same way.

*shrug*
But I've been wrong before...
- Unreall

I tend to want to agree with that but in all honesty we have no evidence to back a claim like that, yes guitar hero died but has madden or the FPS franchises? for each instance we have it one way we have another that disproves the statement. I feel that they had to do at least some serious research into what would be the best for the franchise, though research does not always equal results. It may not go the way we want it to but if they are making these type of profits they have at least some room to error and still right the ship.

Well my assumption is that...

Seasoned vet, someone like myself, I've got all three 'main' games, as well as two of the 3DS offerings. I've got all the figures plus some variants. I complain about reposes as such. Eventually, I'll say "its not worth it, I'm paying for on disc DLC", and I'll box up my set and either eBay it or box it up and forget about it.

The big thing about that example is that 1) no matter what they do, at some point I WILL retire simply because the cost is too absorbent and 2) my stuff will go second hand to eBay.

Now on the flipside, if they focus on the younger market constantly and never grow up a la Sesame Street, then instead of worrying about holding on to the vet who won't buy reposes and the such because he has them all, they sink their hooks into new kids who WILL buy the reposes and other money making items, with actually fewer pick ups from the second hand market.

It makes sense for a game where Activision makes wheel barrels out of hundreds to transport the money they make from figures that represent on disc content to milk those figures more so than to try and milk the game.
- Unreall

Quote: LegendaryFlames

The next game can't be a racing game, because what about the main story line? Do you really think Kaos will change Skylands into a race just so they all have to drive around? He may but its a little stupid and what good would it give Kaos on helping him to take over the world?

It may have a story line like Crash Team Racing or Crash Nitro Cart. A alien (or some other baddie) comes and wants to race the best racer of Skylands.... Or he will do something bad. And Kaos could get jealous or "THIS IS MY WORLD TO CONGER!" and he joins them. After the races Kaos leaves and starts planing his next way to attack.... And the Skylanders stop him somehow in game 5.

Madden survives for several reasons:

1. They can trade-in their older Madden game to get credit for the new one. EA only keeps the servers for the old games up for so long, and then, BAM! You gotta get that new game so you can play online again.

2. Fantasy Football. For some reason, this is something that excites enough teens and men who act like teens (no offense to female fans. I'm sure there are some but I've never met them. And I'm hoping we are more mature than this tbh...) that they GOTTA HAVE IT! Because what's better than watching football? Making your favorite team and their players do what you WANT them to do and WIN IT ALL!! >.> Personally, Real Football>Fantasy Football any day.....

3. Season passes. They probably make more off those than anything else. Sure you can reduce costs on the game itself with credit from a trade-in, but DLC like the Season Pass? Not as often. And the really diehard fans want to play against other *cough* fanatics *cough* fans, so the only way they can is that Pass.

I know some games last longer than we think they should. Part of that is not being the target audience, and hence not "getting it". But another part of it is how a company markets their product and gets people to cash into it.

Once upon a time, we had Beanie Babies. They were cute, cuddly, and not long after release, retired at a growing rate. It got to the point that people were frantic to get them before they were "gone" and try to keep them for a lofty "someday" that would supposedly have them rolling in dough from the value. Well, we all saw how that worked! As long as they kept people thinking that they were an "endangered species" that "must be bought now, or gone forever", it worked to get anyone and their mother to grab up the admittedly easy-to-make and overpriced toys. As soon as people realized that, wait a minute, these guys cost too much, and take up too much room for useless things, the market collapsed. Let's face it, products are only as valuable as we think they are as a group. If a company tells us they're extremely valuable, we have the choice to take that hype, or to ignore it. The fact that some game franchises survive despite crappy offerings is testament to how much influence we as consumers can have on an industry, and how good some marketing is to make a dud look like a blockbuster.

Now, how far can Skylanders go? We don't really know, do we? We can speculate, and worry and even argue over what we like best. But ultimately, they'll bring out something, and once they do, we'll have the choice of whether to take it, or leave it.

The point I was making with Madden was simply saying that some franchises are capable of putting out basically the same thing and still surviving. There are many reasons for which this happens (though I think fantasy football has zero to do with it) and there are reasons why people bought the differing FPS games each year though the reasons are not the point I was making. The point is that even if we don't agree with the stance other games do this and are fine, not putting down the franchises that do this.

All of this table pounding and gnashing of the teeth is for nothing. Activision has admitted that it's GREAT that older gamers and collectors are in the franchise, but they aren't going to cater to your whims. They will still focus on the 6-10 year olds, and if you get sick of it...don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I've come to terms with this. Everyone else should too.

My point is that it's fine to target the new 6-10 range but it is possible to retain older customers without alienating the core.
This means new sales AND retained sales, which is best for everybody.
Making things better means making them better and should be for everyone, I would not advocate changes that damage core playability.

For me, personally, I just want interesting discussion about here. At this point, honestly, I've just decided to give up on trying to argue for any "reason" because I realised it was pointless to try that(although some employees do have accounts and are probably reading this forum), but this is seriously what I think is most interesting to discuss right now. Because it's the only thing people will discuss here.

I guess it would be more useful to try to start discussion about other stuff though. Really disappointed that there isn't really much chat about other stuff like... Gee, I dunno, the Skylanders, or the game, or Time Attack. Nobody is starting up topics and sharing their opinions about those, or trying to analyse them. Outside of maybe the PVP thread(and personally, I hate the PVP because it's so small this game, never play it any more). For what's supposed to be a game with more content than the previous titles there seems to be a big lack of discussion. Maybe I'm being a bit whingey about it but these reasons are precisely why I decided to leave before, because I hardly see any of the community chatting about the actual game which is a massive downer. Instead, we're just repeating the same criticisms over and over- and I think it's because that's the only thing that gets any real discussion on these forums, at least from what I see, and when you try to make other lengthy posts they don't garner anything then fade away and it isn't worth bothering. It seems nobody wants to talk about the actual game. And outside of that just favourites lists and news about the toys.

Of course, I'm just part of the problem for adding to the critical discussion and not posting anything else these days, and I'm not really gonna try to make any excuse or justify it because it wouldn't be kidding anyone.

If I may ask, would anyone else here add to it and add their opinions and get into deeper discussions if you saw deeper posts about the game itself? It just demotivates me when I make a long post specifically to try to get more discussion, and then nobody responds and my post is ignored. Not all my posts are like that, I do enjoy the analysis and writing the post itself in a lot of cases, but I'm so sick of the series at this point that analysing the game [besides Time Attack] wouldn't be any fun for me unless I could get some discussion from it and other people joined in. The discussion is really fun to me, I love hearing what other people think about games and seeing people share their experiences with them and just discussing it! It's kept me interested in a couple of games I otherwise would be bored with too, like Animal Crossing.

Quote: Arc of Archives

If I may ask, would anyone else here add to it and add their opinions and get into deeper discussions if you saw deeper posts about the game itself? It just demotivates me when I make a long post specifically to try to get more discussion, and then nobody responds and my post is ignored. Not all my posts are like that, I do enjoy the analysis and writing the post itself in a lot of cases, but I'm so sick of the series at this point that analysing the game [besides Time Attack] wouldn't be any fun for me unless I could get some discussion from it and other people joined in. The discussion is really fun to me, I love hearing what other people think about games and seeing people share their experiences with them and just discussing it! It's kept me interested in a couple of games I otherwise would be bored with too, like Animal Crossing.

I was just thinking along the same lines yesterday. Comparatively, the swapforce thread is very damp to what the spyros adventure was. We might have lost some users through the games, but I even noticed it with youtube. There is a lot less videos about the break downs. But to answer your question yes I would participate.

Meh, you may sound 'whiney', but it is legit - so it's not really 'whiney'.

Cut it down to what the core issue is. Be blunt.

Swap Force had its moments, but it lacked content.

It's not that "oh they did this wrong" or "it was too easy" or whatever, it simply lacked content. Me? I'm still going through it, I haven't beaten the bonus maps or 3 star-ed everything, or even played the stuff unlocked by the Arkeyan Crossbow. But that's because I'm pacing myself with the release of the figures. Let's lay more cards on the table.

1. If you play Swap Force, there is a high chance you've played/owned one of the previous titles and/or have previous figures. If you've amassed a nice size collection, part of the allure is playing older characters in a new game....that's the whole point of the backwards compatibility, even though they didn't re-release Ghost Roaster, I can still throw him on the portal and play. However, with the amount of content provided - it's very easy to get through all the content without leveling your characters or playing everyone. This is expecially true with the level limit of 20. I like that they raised the limit, but I beat the game and I only have ONE level 20 (Rattle), and most of my Swaps (all I play in Swap Force really) are between 7-12. If it wasn't for the money cheat it would be even WORSE.

2. If you've got a large collection, then difficulty doesn't mean SQUAT. The first time I fought Kaos (SSA), I won. Why? Because I had 20 something characters to throw at him. I'm an extreme case as a pseudo collector - but at this point a lot of players have well over 20 or 30 characters - meaning you can 'juggernaut' your way through virtually everything.

3. I LOVE deep discussions on topics, but its a kids game where things like 'frame counting' and 'DPS' amount to squat. There is Nightmare, but it's not like Diablo on "Inferno" difficulty where you are truly pushed to the limit. The number of bad guys is pretty much the same, they just hit harder and can take more. I don't PvP as my wife wouldn't be a challenge.

*shrug*

There is just not too much to talk about with Swap Force. I can talk till I'm blue in the face about what I'd like for them to do in th next installment, but seeing as AV won't even PATCH their own game, I can't expect anything more than ideas and speculation on the next installment.

I'd LOVE for them to have a better difficulty slider, not just hitpoint adjustments, but more attacks per bad guy, different patterns, large groups, etc. What's the point in having a character with awesome abilities and damage - when the only time you fight alot of bad guys, they are chompies who die from just being in near your existence (especially as a Giant haha).

I'd LOVE for them to add multiple pathways.

I'd Love for them to have online co-op.

I'd love for my old characters to feel as good as my new characters.

I'd love for the waves to be on a set timetable that's not spaced out so much, I'd be fine with a one or two character wave if that's what it took for 'monthly' waves, but the inconsistency does nothing but make me want to buy another video game from another company to play.

I'd love a more open world - though as discussed - that's not happening.

I'd love for ALL VARIANTS to show up in game. There is NO EXCUSE for this. Color replacement is not a big deal, and if I am willing to spend the additional $10+ dollars for a variant, that dag gone it I deserve for it to show up in game.

I'd love for levels/expansions to be added. Not on disc content that's unlocked by buying another toy, but actual new stuff. I'm not saying for free - but if they are going to have a yearly cycle for releasing toys, then give me more reason to want to buy figures at the end of the cycle. Instead of "Springtime Trigger Happy" - why not a "Springtime Event" where a special Springtime Map can be purchased online for $5 or something like that?

Customization is currently limited to hats, this is very understandable from an execution stand point, but I would love to have more customization akin to at least heroics. If I want to make Wrecking Ball 'fast' then let me. Provide a reason to own multiple copies of a character or reposes.

Blu-Rays hold a ton of data, compile the first two games with the new one. I'd like to get the new Landers on the XBOne, but everything else I have is for the 360, I do not want multiple portals.

*sigh*
-Unreall

Quote: Unreallystic

I don't PvP as my wife wouldn't be a challenge.

Want her to be a real challenge? Tell her that her friend is prettier, but be ready for some real life PvP.
But in all seriousness the DLC thing would be great, having the ability to create new levels is not something that should be difficult. Hopefully in the future we are at least looking at them being able to patch problems.

She's just not a real gamer like I am *despite my retirement from competitive fighting games*, all my time practicing in various Street Fighters, Tekkens, and VS Series games along with going to tournaments and the such...its either no fun for me as I have to dial back so far, or no fun for her because I overwhelm so much (general issue). Heck, she couldn't keep up in Diablo 3 and that was Co-Op, but I just love spending time with my wife - especially when its doing stuff that I actually like for once - so I just deal. But I do NOT play against her in anything.

And my son is about to turn 3...yeah...he's gotten a lot better, but he's still prone to just walking into a wall and getting frustrated because the character isn't doing anything else.

But yeah, while I'm not an advocate for spending MORE money, I have to admit that one of my big issues with Swap Force (not so much with previous titles because of 'when' I started playing) is simply the release of figures. I'm not saying they need to change the schedule or they are doing it wrong, but with such a long cycle that last I heard they were EXTENDING, then they need to provide the content to match, otherwise NO ONE will buy 'Doomstone' or 'Ninjini' or S2 Drobot because they will be done with the game.

AV makes TONS of money with CoD, same way EA does with Madden. Despite the little innovation that goes into those titles, the reason they can resell them every year is because of competition. Competition creates its own longevity. Skylanders doesn't really have that as a content based series, so if they want it played year round, then they need to release content year round. Heck, even with the CoD series, AV STILL releases 'Content Packs' every so often WITHIN the year to keep players playing. So long term success of their year round strategy more than likely needs to incorporate some of that strategy. DLC

And they can solve several things doing it to. IT would create a 'patch'. It would allow for "Game of the Year" editions with a variant packaged. It would allow them to expand the mythos without alienating the base - they could keep Kaos as the main villain, yet with a 3 level expansion - add in a completely separate villain and build him/her up to be a main villain in a subsequent game. They could even pick the waves BASED on the expansion. I mentioned a Springtime event, well besides Springtime Trigger Happy, the story could revolve around Fryno, Fire Kraken, DoomStone, and Punk Shock...so that wave would come out along with the expansion, and it would make sense to get them.

Shrug

I just want to play my Landers more without getting bored.
- Unreall

Oh, but Unreall, you're just demonstrating something I really hate about this community(and many online communities in general). It no longer becomes about discussing the game and sharing the experiences we've had with it or just having fun- it's no longer about sharing "this was the first Skylander I got and I love them for this", or "I gave myself this challenge in the game for the fun of it and I juuust made it"- it's no longer about that at all and now posts which are simply discussion like that are pushed aside, everything becomes about gathering NEWS and everything has to be NEW INFO or TOTALLY OVERLY COMPETITIVE or bust. I understand the desire to want more challenge from the game, I wish there was an "Impossible" mode or even extra custom difficulty options or something, so I'm not saying that can't be fun. If you really want an extra difficulty, you can try making an opinion post and putting it up here so we can all discuss it! I just don't get it if that's the big thing keeping you in the franchise or why you're picking up the games when it was never difficult in the first place. And you can make your own challenges, like playing with some Skylander you suck with the whole game through from their default, giving them a nickname and stuff, and if you die it's over... I wrote more about player-created difficulty later in this post. The game should entertain you, but if it's not doing that any more and you're still trying to get some entertainment out of it, then try to find something which can make it more exciting again and POST ABOUT IT HERE! That encourages others to do the same, which will garner more discussion, and that can make the whole thing more interesting. I think I'm going to start a Dune Bug run myself when I get the time. Maybe I'll write a journal about it here?

Anyway, I'm not just talking about more "competitive" or "serious" discussion but "casual" discussion as well. Perhaps that sounds strange coming from me, but I don't like to just make long posts about serious things and nothing else and if that happened I'd just get even more bored of this. I've made a few long posts about my favourites lists and things like that. And like I said when I do try to garner some discussion like that I never see people join in. And besides, as you'll know if you have opinions, not everything we think perfectly matches up. Regardless, I'm less upset that there are less long posts and more upset that it seems there are hardly ever member just having discussions about the topic within topics, and actually responding to one another, outside of a few kinds of topics, so it's barely worth trying to strike anything up. And there's hardly anything we do discuss here.

But... Why don't we start doing stuff where we start self-imposed challenges and post about them here, like the Nuzlocke in Pokémon? Why aren't we just discussing our ideas about that? Why aren't we just chatting about what we've done in the game, like we took time to play some character or beat some arena, or how it felt when we first went through the story? And if you want to get more competitive, why don't you get your Magna Jet and help contribute to the Time Attack community and challenge others to do so, or play someone's self-made challenge? Of course, I'm making it sound much more simple than it is, and like I said it's not like I'm adding to it right now, and I won't try to make some excuse for it like I'be gone over. But if we collaborate as a community to share all our thoughts on these things and create this environment, it could make the games feel fresh again! I'm not saying that excuses the lack of postgame content or that I'm not frustrated that they aren't adding more to the game- to a very big extent, it's the game's job to give us something entertaining too- but I think it would be the best if we all challenged ourselves as players and being able to contribute and join in on those things and if we had more in-jokes like Wicked Thumpback that we could joke about together it would be exciting, no? And the games can't POSSIBLY entertain us on their own forever, but if we had a better community it could make them more exciting, since then you could play and then hop on here and post about what you did and people would actually discuss it with you. It's not part of the game, but it does involve the franchise, and could make it more interesting again. It sounds weird when I put it like that, but if a lot of people were talking about the game and we had all kinds of different discussions I'd be more interested in playing because then I could join in on all those discussions. And that'd lead to more and more discussions. It'd develop over time. And please, don't tell me there's not a lot of stuff to discuss- I know there aren't a lot of levels but there are quite a few Skylanders and I'm sure we all have our own stories about playing the games that we can share, simple stuff like that. They're all unique, and personally, I find it pretty fun to chat about those just so I can hear what other people have to say and share my own stories. And we can all come up with our own little challenges for the game, or try out Score Attack to beat some other player's score, if we had that community we were sharing those things with. You could play the game in those new ways. Imagine if we did have a bustling forum like that. It would be amazing. I hope it happens someday, but it'd only work if some of us kickstarted it and people actually did join in on it.

... C'MON GUYS, LET'S CALL THIS "OPERATION: LET'S JUST HAVE FUN" AND DO THIS!
If it ever happens, it'll take ages, but all we can do is try! ~

Quote: TheLurk

Just how much does Actvision look at on here? Do they read everything, or do they skim the thread titles to see what're the hottest topics? And do they take into account the imput from parents who are getting tired of the lack of info on release dates? Some parents might be willing to constantly check stores, but most just don't have time. If they push this too much, they could lose more parents and therefore, have less kids playing the game. Even if it's the biggest game-changer, if parents are tired of the chase, they'll lose overall in sales.

Their target market barely knows how to spell or navigate a board site. I'm guessing they write off much written here because most of us are the older gamers and collectors (you know, the segment of their community that they are very pleased to have but really don't give a rat's behind about).

Quote: GhostRoaster

Their target market barely knows how to spell or navigate a board site. I'm guessing they write off much written here because most of us are the older gamers and collectors (you know, the segment of their community that they are very pleased to have but really don't give a rat's behind about).

Hmm...that's interesting. Considering that enough people on here are vocal about being Skylander fans' parents as well as fans themselves. I would think they'd consider the insight of parents into their calculations, if only to avoid buyer fatigue and alienating them.