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Shut up and take my money. [CLOSED]
Samius Hunter Gems: 9336
#1 Posted: 19:18:05 03/02/2014 | Topic Creator
Maybe I'm just slow to catch up with all the latest news in gaming, but I just found out about this today.

[User Posted Image]

Apparently this hunk of machinery is called "Virtuix Omni", and it only costs about as much as an Xbox One. Anyone ever seen one or used one?
sonicbrawler182 Platinum Sparx Gems: 7105
#2 Posted: 19:23:40 03/02/2014
While it's interesting, I don't think I'd be caught dead using one of those regularly. Nice novelty, but much like Kinect, I feel it's more suited to arcades than home use. That's just my opinion though, I can see why some would eat this up.

I could see a few silly sausages getting themselves on the news with it, though. :V
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"My memories will be part of the sky."
Samius Hunter Gems: 9336
#3 Posted: 19:29:18 03/02/2014 | Topic Creator
Quote: sonicbrawler182
While it's interesting, I don't think I'd be caught dead using one of those regularly. Nice novelty, but much like Kinect, I feel it's more suited to arcades than home use. That's just my opinion though, I can see why some would eat this up.

I could see a few silly sausages getting themselves on the news with it, though. :V


Sure, It's not for everybody. I can understand why some people woud like to stick with the "traditional" way of playing games.
As for myself, I'd probably use it all the time.
Seiki Platinum Sparx Gems: 6150
#4 Posted: 19:59:58 03/02/2014
If there is ever a Kingdom Hearts game compatable with this, I would buy it in a heartbeat.
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Once in my dreams, I rose and soared. No matter how I'm knocked around or beaten down, I will stand up restored.
sonicbrawler182 Platinum Sparx Gems: 7105
#5 Posted: 20:01:48 03/02/2014
For me it's less that it's not traditional (I still like the Wii Remote, PS Move, and lightgun games) and more that it looks uncomfortable to use (as I'm literally strapped to it), and that it would probably get nauseating after prolonged use.

Oh, and it seems like it needs to be combined with the Oculus Rift for the full experience. I actually really like the Oculus Rift, though it is also more money out of my pocket.
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"My memories will be part of the sky."
hardcoreignitor Gold Sparx Gems: 2583
#6 Posted: 22:15:08 03/02/2014
*shuts up*
*takes money*
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nyeheheheheh

hey lois, i’m dustah from mudda 3
MoonHorizons Gold Sparx Gems: 2826
#7 Posted: 22:16:55 03/02/2014
Oculus Rift + Razor Hydra + Virtuix Omni + As Real as it Gets = LEVEL 100 VIRTUAL REALITY MAGE.
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the more obscure your favorite cartoons are, the more refined your taste is
wspyro Emerald Sparx Gems: 4422
#8 Posted: 23:17:13 03/02/2014
I would love to try Mirror's Edge in one of these things. If is possible.
Matteomax Platinum Sparx Gems: 5378
#9 Posted: 23:23:48 03/02/2014
Here's a list of games that support it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...us_Rift_support

Team Fortress 2 is on the list. smilie
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Will still be checking the forums every now and then!
DummyZ Gold Sparx Gems: 2844
#10 Posted: 23:31:41 03/02/2014
*eyegasm*
cowpowa23 Emerald Sparx Gems: 4833
#11 Posted: 03:24:53 04/02/2014
That looks awesome.
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I am a Cow.

"Moo".
Dragon Lover Emerald Sparx Gems: 4649
#12 Posted: 04:11:27 04/02/2014
Seeing as that's probably the only real exercise I'd get, sure, I'd invest in it. RPGs would be hella.
somePerson Diamond Sparx Gems: 8864
#13 Posted: 04:20:25 04/02/2014
Ew exercise.

Looks cool to be honest.
Apoc Gold Sparx Gems: 2941
#14 Posted: 06:01:22 04/02/2014
Too bad it's probably just gonna work with Battlefield and everything else will just suck. I can't see this thing working with CoD, you can only sprint for 2 seconds.
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DarkSpyro's resident "cool person" except there's nothing cool about me.
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sonicbrawler182 Platinum Sparx Gems: 7105
#15 Posted: 13:18:44 04/02/2014
In general, I think this piece of equipment will be awkward for a lot of games.

I looked up a video with more details, and there is one huge problem with it - the fact that it is essentially just emulating controller/keyboard inputs means it's probably very imprecise for existing games. I'm sure this thing could be fun if games were specifically designed for it in the future, but already released games like CoD, Battlefield, and even Skyrim (especially since we only see this guy using a gun for a shooter game - Skyrim is not a shooter) are going to have input discrepancies and delays due to the emulation process. Battlefield may turn out OK, but in general, this is not an ideal way of playing existing games. Even doing something as simple as emulating one console's controller with another's generally requires tweaking to get working perfectly, as the control sticks generally have different dead zones and other such complications. Trying to emulate other controllers, ESPECIALLY keyboard inputs (which are digital, meaning they are not pressure sensitive - they have to be pushed the whole way to read any input, and will not create any variable results in-game) through actual movement, is not going to be very precise at all.

This thing is only going to work well for games that are specifically designed for it, or games with incredibly simple controls (like, Super Mario Bros simple). And in the latter case, it still won't be a better option than a controller.
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"My memories will be part of the sky."
Samius Hunter Gems: 9336
#16 Posted: 15:49:48 04/02/2014 | Topic Creator
Quote: sonicbrawler182
In general, I think this piece of equipment will be awkward for a lot of games.

I looked up a video with more details, and there is one huge problem with it - the fact that it is essentially just emulating controller/keyboard inputs means it's probably very imprecise for existing games. I'm sure this thing could be fun if games were specifically designed for it in the future, but already released games like CoD, Battlefield, and even Skyrim (especially since we only see this guy using a gun for a shooter game - Skyrim is not a shooter) are going to have input discrepancies and delays due to the emulation process. Battlefield may turn out OK, but in general, this is not an ideal way of playing existing games. Even doing something as simple as emulating one console's controller with another's generally requires tweaking to get working perfectly, as the control sticks generally have different dead zones and other such complications. Trying to emulate other controllers, ESPECIALLY keyboard inputs (which are digital, meaning they are not pressure sensitive - they have to be pushed the whole way to read any input, and will not create any variable results in-game) through actual movement, is not going to be very precise at all.

This thing is only going to work well for games that are specifically designed for it, or games with incredibly simple controls (like, Super Mario Bros simple). And in the latter case, it still won't be a better option than a controller.


I'm not sure about all those problems you mentioned. First of all, no games ever are "specifically designed for" this thing. It's essentially just a movement controller the same way the sticks in an Xbox controller are. It's only purpose is to transfer real life movement into game movement (a task in which the Omni succeeds in very well from what I've seen).

Second, I can't think of any first person games that didn't have similar controls (and it's obviously made to be used with first person games only). You can use a joystick to play a PC game meant for a keyboard too, no problem. Why would this apparatus suddenly have trouble with the same deal?

Third, the gun is a separate piece of equipment. You can use this thing with a controller or with a mouse and a keyboard as well.

As to how well it actually performs, it looks pretty damn precise to me (check the video below). And it looks like it'd be a lot more fun than simply pressing a stick or a forward button, which to me at least is infinitely more important than the fact that it might not be as just handy as a controller.

Besides, it eliminates many things ordinary movement controls had trouble with. It simulates balance in a way that you can't go from a full sprint to a sidestep or a backwards jog in a split second. In the same way it simulates your mass, meaning that you can't instantly turn yourself around or start running without putting any effort to it.
It can actually make you exhausted IRL, which lowers your reaction time and the awareness of your surroundings.
Also it serves an obvious task when it comes to immersion and realism. I can't imagine many people really continously jogging through the whole province of Skyrim in one go without any touble.
The Oculus rift also enables you to snap to a target accurately and quickly and make minimal adjustments to your in-game targeting with ease, just like turning your head in real life.

sonicbrawler182 Platinum Sparx Gems: 7105
#17 Posted: 18:06:57 04/02/2014
Quote:
I'm not sure about all those problems you mentioned. First of all, no games ever are "specifically designed for" this thing. It's essentially just a movement controller the same way the sticks in an Xbox controller are. It's only purpose is to transfer real life movement into game movement (a task in which the Omni succeeds in very well from what I've seen).

Second, I can't think of any first person games that didn't have similar controls (and it's obviously made to be used with first person games only). You can use a joystick to play a PC game meant for a keyboard too, no problem. Why would this apparatus suddenly have trouble with the same deal?


If no games are ever going to be specifically designed with this in mind, then it is a problem. It is not "essentially" a movement stick, it is attempting to emulate a control stick. Emulation requires manual setup, for one thing. It also requires a lot of hurdles be jumped to play a game in a way that closely replicates the way the game is originally intended to be played. This applies to controller emulation, which is what the Virtuix Omni is (and I am not making a guess here, one of the promotional videos I found for it specifically stated it was merely emulating other controllers and even showed the interface for the configuration. It's like how I use a program that allows for Xbox 360 controller emulation using a PS3 controller - this is a much simpler emulation than what the Omni is trying to achieve, though).

You can use a joystick to play a keyboard game, but that's because most games these days are programmed to detect whether or not you are using one or the other, and execute different processes accordingly. Notice how camera control works completely differently when playing a modern PC game with a controller as opposed to keyboard and mouse. It's not emulation in that instance, the game is just specifically programmed to work with two different types of controllers. The reason I know how this works is because I've actually dabbled into the process myself, as I am enrolled in a college course in video game's design, and as such, I need to know how to set up controllers for my projects.

Quote:
Third, the gun is a separate piece of equipment. You can use this thing with a controller or with a mouse and a keyboard as well.

So I need to fork out more money for the gun then, eh? :V
That aside, using a keyboard in conjunction with this would not be desirable in the slightest, and I think everyone would agree with that. Firstly, it'd have to be a wireless one, because if you're twisting and turning on this thing, a wire would get tangled all around you. If you don't have a wireless keyboard, that's more money to be spending.
A wireless controller wouldn't be too bad, but it would kind of make the Omni redundant (even if it did work perfectly).

Quote:
As to how well it actually performs, it looks pretty damn precise to me (check the video below). And it looks like it'd be a lot more fun than simply pressing a stick or a forward button, which to me at least is infinitely more important than the fact that it might not be as just handy as a controller.


Checked the video, and within ten seconds of gameplay, I could already spot discrepancies that would suggest that the gameplay footage wasn't even being played with the Omni. That video is a mock-up, not a live performance. Heck, it doesn't even look like the Oculus Rift is being used in the footage. If it's not a mock-up, then the only explanation for these discrepancies is that the Omni is poorly configured in that demonstration.

Quote:
Besides, it eliminates many things ordinary movement controls had trouble with. It simulates balance in a way that you can't go from a full sprint to a sidestep or a backwards jog in a split second. In the same way it simulates your mass, meaning that you can't instantly turn yourself around or start running without putting any effort to it.
It can actually make you exhausted IRL, which lowers your reaction time and the awareness of your surroundings.
Also it serves an obvious task when it comes to immersion and realism. I can't imagine many people really continously jogging through the whole province of Skyrim in one go without any touble.
The Oculus rift also enables you to snap to a target accurately and quickly and make minimal adjustments to your in-game targeting with ease, just like turning your head in real life.


And you just described the BIGGEST flaw with the Omni's current application - these games simply are not designed for a player to be physically tired.
You tried to make a point about how most FPS games utilise controllers in similar ways, which is true. Your shoot button is generally the Right Trigger in most shooters, for example. However, these games have entirely different level design, mechanics, movement values, enemy placement, etc...
Take CoD, for example. CoD is, by no means, a realistic shooter. It is tight and arcade-y, and is appealing to many because it's fast paced, the characters are nimble to control, you can pull of various tricks like quick scoping, etc. The game also has excellent, precise controls. However, that's because they are designed with control sticks in mind, and gamers won't become physically fatigued using those. They could be moving, jumping, shooting for hours, and the controls would remain responsive. However, if the players had to physically, run, jump, and crouch to play this game, then the game would be unplayable, as their body movements that are designed to merely emulate button/control stick inputs, and as a result, the effect achieved is essentially forcing the player to make very slow inputs. What would be split second reactions on the controller, would be inputs with delays of over a second on the Omni, increasing according to player fatigue. However, CoD is DESIGNED for split second inputs. The levels are designed with the assumption that your controller can make them possible, and they are especially needed in multiplayer. If the Omni is preventing you from achieving these split second inputs, the game would likely be unplayable.

This is what I mean when I say games will need to be designed for this sort of thing. I think this will be wonderful for playing first person horror games like Slender or whatever, as those games are designed to make you feel powerless and have minimalist controls and level design, and the fatigue from physically trying to run around would really enhance the immersion they bring. The games are also very short and have replay value, so having to take a break when tired would not really detract from the experience or interrupt anything.

However, if they want to implement this for more full-on games that are designed for challenge and competitive play or anything like that, the games need to be designed with player fatigue accounted for.

I'm not against this piece of technology, it is impressive, but there are not a lot of things on the market that would work well with it.
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"My memories will be part of the sky."
Samius Hunter Gems: 9336
#18 Posted: 19:43:28 04/02/2014 | Topic Creator
Quote: sonicbrawler182
*snip*

Alright, I understand what you mean but since I'm not a professional nerd myself I can't really say much to that, but what I've got is empirical evidence. What little videos I've seen of people using Omni it's worked absolutely fine.
That is, or course, if you believe that what you see is real. I don't think I saw any of those discrepancies that you mentioned. If you could elaborate on what you meant instead of just dismissing the video I could perhaps have a better look.
What I did notice was that the parts of the video aren't in complete sync. The view on the right seems to play a bit late, you can see it evey time this guy pulls the trigger and every time he turns his head.

And if it's your wallet you're worried about, nobody is telling you to buy this thing. I'm not trying to advertise it. It doesn't make the device itself any worse if you don't want to spend the money on the equipment.
I was just saying that the option is there to use other types of controllers with the Omni, because in your last post you seemed to be under the impression that the gun is the only option that you're going to get.

And about redundancy. This whole thing is redundant, ok? It's not required to play the game at all as I'm sure you know by this point.
It's simply for making the experience more immersive, not to give you the best perfomance in a multiplayer match of Battlefield 4 or CoD. That's it's selling point, and why anybody would want to buy this thing. That is also what I was after with my last paragraph.
The point of Omni is to simply give you a virtual reality experience. That's all. If you don't want one then of course it's redundant and useless and you shouldn't give it a second thought.

As for if any games are going to be made with this system in mind in the future or not, it really depends on if it will ever be mass produced. Right now I'm thinking not because I don't think people will ever be selling this thing in retail.
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