darkSpyro

Of course that could (and would) be done.

The difference is if the admins know that a user is underage. Like, if they're dumb enough to post their real age and they're 13-.

Admins of websites aren't expected to inspect two forms of government issued photo ID for everyone who registers, but they're expected to make a good faith effort in preventing the collection of information from children 13 and under.

Honestly though, this COPPA stuff is kinda off-topic...

Actually, it's not.

One of the reasons that keep coming up for *not* having a B/S/T thread is that the younger crowd could be harmed/taken advantage of.

If this website is following the law, then that's not an issue.

Quote: Sesshomaru75

Quote: jet-vac6000

Thanks for ruining everyone's day UncleBob. It must feel good to have broken so many kids hopes and dreams.

Are you actually serious? lol

*cries*

Quote: UncleBob

I'm just stating what the law is. I didn't write it and I don't enforce it. It would have likely never even come up if not for the fact a moderator acknowledged that he is aware of the fact the site is currently breaking Federal Law.

And look at it this way - should all of the users who are thankful for this site and follow the rules have to risk losing the site altogether simply because a few kids think that the rules shouldn't apply to them? Should Dark have to risk paying fines because you don't think the rules apply to you?

Basically, are you willing to destroy this site? 'If I can't use it, no one can!"?

Actually, no, that's not how it is at all. It's just people who won't let them selves get walked over and people who do not at all have a say in anything. Why should us honest, surprisingly mature users, who by the way are just as much a part of this site as you are, leave because of a law in a country that we don't live in? Oh and about that last bit, I'm under 13, not 3

Sorry for the double post

Because it's the law and your actions risk getting someone else in trouble.

If you don't care about them, then by all means, continue.

Quote: UncleBob

Actually, it's not.

One of the reasons that keep coming up for *not* having a B/S/T thread is that the younger crowd could be harmed/taken advantage of.

If this website is following the law, then that's not an issue.

United States laws have not caught up with modern day technology. We're innovating too fast and the people writing the laws are not the ones using most of this technology. Just look at the whole NSA surveillance fiasco. But this is straying quite a bit from the point of this. It's impossible to verify a user's age without an invasion of privacy, so your idea of restricting use of the site is not plausible.

I heard someone mention PayPal. That could work, but a lot people I know in the generation older than me have difficulty with the site and aren't willing to trust it with any of their financial information. Not saying that that would actually happen or anything. What about Google Wallet, or whatever they're doing these days? <.>

Quote: HIR

United States laws have not caught up with modern day technology. We're innovating too fast and the people writing the laws are not the ones using most of this technology. Just look at the whole NSA surveillance fiasco. But this is straying quite a bit from the point of this. It's impossible to verify a user's age without an invasion of privacy, so your idea of restricting use of the site is not plausible.

It doesn't matter if you (or I) don't like the law. Xanga didn't agree with it and their pockets ended up $1million lighter after their court battle with the government.

Quote: Kitty

Quote: UncleBob

Quote: terranakari

And HONESTLY if there are under 13 yr olds here (whether they should or shouldn't) doesn't matter because obviously theyre super mature about everything OR they get banned for being obnoxious. so what's the deal guys??

Because there are potential legal implications that could end up with the hosts of this site getting fined, Dark getting fined and/or the site getting shut down?

The buy/sell/trade thing is nothing more than a *preference* of the administrator of the site. By all means, he is welcome to that preference.

The 'Under 13' thing is a legal issue that can have real-world consquences that could end up destroying this site. If anyone here is under 13 and they're willing to allow that to happen, then... ick.

If every site were to get fined for having users who are 13 or younger, the whole internet would be shut down.

Was gonna say this, myself.

Justin Beiber Fan Site fined $1 Million for COPPA Violations:
http://www.insidecounsel.com/2...oppa-violations

Path (social network startup) fined $800k for COPPA Violations:
http://gigaom.com/2013/02/01/p...ppa-violations/

Xanga (social network startup) fined $1 Million for COPPA Violations:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/1471...y/#.UglqqW2cFnU

Etch-a-Sketch fined $35k for COPPA Violations:
http://www.keytlaw.com/FTC/Actions/ftc020422.htm

UMG Records fined $400k and Banzai Software fined $75k for COPPA Violations:
http://www.internetnews.com/bu...A+Violators.htm

Disney subsidiary fined $3 Million for COPPA Violations:
http://www.dailyfinance.com/20...ns-privacy-vio/

W3 Innovations fined $50k for COPPA Violations:
http://www.newsfactor.com/news...id=100005SIGR38

SONY fined $1 Million for COPPA Violations:
http://www.wileyrein.com/publi...etter=4&id=4806

Need I go on?

Fan sites, gaming sites, major corporations, independent folks... Government doesn't care.

I'll post my two cents.

regarding trading:
I do agree that the exchange of Spyro-related goods would be more easily possible on a site where people have related interests compared to a general auction site. Assuming there's no such trading forum happening, I would just make a thread related to Spyro goods that people may want to show off to others. And if you're interested in an item someone has, then deal with it privately through email, Skype, or PM. I know it's not as direct as a forum dedicated to trading, but that's the only way I can see any form of trading happening now. It's dark52's choice and I tend to see him as a guy who strictly wants this site to be informational only and not expand beyond that. That's the impression I get when it comes to change in general.

regarding COPPA:
Other forums will not allow you to even sign up if you're under the age of 13, or if they do find out you're under 13 after lying/not revealing your age, they will ban you until you are of age. It doesn't mean that all kids under 13 are "dumb"/"immature". I suppose the law has interpreted it as the most efficient way of enforcing child protection. You can say that the responsible few under 13 are victims to the act. 13 just seems to be the semi-arbitrary number that encompasses a wide net of what age "acceptably responsible" persons are supposed to be. Conversely, you can have very immature persons older than 13. Unfortunately, it's something you'll just have to live with...
It is -unlikely- that the government will catch darkspyro and charge them, when they have bigger fish in the pond to go after, so to speak. UncleBob is simply trying to justify the rule's existence, that's all.

Its not the government. Its if something happens to a child on here. For example, a kid gives an address to a pedophile on here. The pedophile could go to his house and do stuff to the kid like rape, murder, or stay home and steal their identity. If this happened, they would call local police. Then the police would find the site and get police in Huntsville, Alabama (Curse headquarters) and charge fines against the folks at Curse. And in severe cases, shutdown darkSpyro. I understand that it is the kid's fault if ever, but it happens. Like Uncle Bob said, websites get charged for this. The rape-murder case on Facebook is different. They have too many members to keep track who is under 18.

In conclusion, it is too risky for dark to do this. He can't risk getting charged or dropped from Curse because Curse would be the ones in trouble, so therefore they would lose his trust. I don't want anything to happen to anyone on this site either.

What is wrong with advertising about eBay deals anyway? Yes, it is possible to trade on there. You can put up sales for the same exact price and buy from each other.

One more thing, Dark wouldn't add this also because he has his rules. He wants them to stay that way.

You people think of some truly morbid stuff. Perhaps it's not the lurkers we should be concerned about. Maybe it is the regulars?

Quote: sniper52

Its not the government. Its if something happens to a child on here. For example, a kid gives an address to a pedophile on here. The pedophile could go to his house and do stuff to the kid like rape, murder, or stay home and steal their identity. If this happened, they would call local police. Then the police would find the site and get police in Huntsville, Alabama (Curse headquarters) and charge fines against the folks at Curse. And in severe cases, shutdown darkSpyro. I understand that it is the kid's fault if ever, but it happens. Like Uncle Bob said, websites get charged for this. The rape-murder case on Facebook is different. They have too many members to keep track who is under 18.

In conclusion, it is too risky for dark to do this. He can't risk getting charged or dropped from Curse because Curse would be the ones in trouble, so therefore they would lose his trust. I don't want anything to happen to anyone on this site either.

What is wrong with advertising about eBay deals anyway? Yes, it is possible to trade on there. You can put up sales for the same exact price and buy from each other.

One more thing, Dark wouldn't add this also because he has his rules. He wants them to stay that way.

Because I traded with theGooch and the next day he turned up at my door with a knife...

Quote: sniper52

Its not the government. Its if something happens to a child on here. For example, a kid gives an address to a pedophile on here. The pedophile could go to his house and do stuff to the kid like rape, murder, or stay home and steal their identity. If this happened, they would call local police. Then the police would find the site and get police in Huntsville, Alabama (Curse headquarters) and charge fines against the folks at Curse. And in severe cases, shutdown darkSpyro.

Right, I just popped a rather general word there, but that is what I mean.

Quote: TheGooch

You people think of some truly morbid stuff. Perhaps it's not the lurkers we should be concerned about. Maybe it is the regulars?

None of it matters if dark52 doesn't voice his thoughts. I'd just say to wait for a verdict, and if nothing happens, then just forget about it.

We should never live our lives based off of fear. Is life worth living if we hide in the shadows too afraid to face the uncertain? Embrace change and all the amazement that can come out of it.

in all honesty everyone is making valid points & i dont want anyone to think i'm arguing instead of discussing lol i like EVERYONE here on darkspyro. so since my view has been heard & i have nothing else to add atm, i will be lurking until dark closes this topic with an answer. thank you all for hearing me out.

Quote: bmah

It is -unlikely- that the government will catch darkspyro and charge them, when they have bigger fish in the pond to go after, so to speak. UncleBob is simply trying to justify the rule's existence, that's all.

Actually, all it takes is one person to get banned or fed up with the site to fire off an e-mail to the FTC. All they have to do is link to posts where kids mention their age to be under 13 and blammo.

Well there you have it.

Yup, there you have it alright.

Quote: UncleBob

Quote: bmah

It is -unlikely- that the government will catch darkspyro and charge them, when they have bigger fish in the pond to go after, so to speak. UncleBob is simply trying to justify the rule's existence, that's all.

Actually, all it takes is one person to get banned or fed up with the site to fire off an e-mail to the FTC. All they have to do is link to posts where kids mention their age to be under 13 and blammo.

We get youf point UncleBob, stop stating the same things over and over again. It is getting nauseating. If you are saying what you are to threaten people instead of inform us then do what you have to and shuffle off. The intention of starting this discussion was just that, to have a discussion. You have made you point, with detailed information a few hundred times now. Ok, that's exaggerating but it is how it feels. There have been a couple of instances that I have seen since I have been on Darkspyro where you could have easily said your piece and left it at that but you continue to drone on for some reason. We believe what you are saying but stop trying to scare everyone. You have sabotaged a completely innocent discussion into something much more than it needs to be. Allow the powers that be to make up their minds as to what is going to happen on this forum, allow people to discuss both sides in a reasonable manner, but I ask that you stop trying to scare people with this constant nonsense. You appear to have the desire to win every argument you put yourself in if it is the last thing you do. It must be tiring for you to have to keep up with that constant desire to win, I do know for sure it is tiring on this end to see all the needless bickering.

Quote: TheGooch

Quote: UncleBob

Quote: bmah

It is -unlikely- that the government will catch darkspyro and charge them, when they have bigger fish in the pond to go after, so to speak. UncleBob is simply trying to justify the rule's existence, that's all.

Actually, all it takes is one person to get banned or fed up with the site to fire off an e-mail to the FTC. All they have to do is link to posts where kids mention their age to be under 13 and blammo.

We get youf point UncleBob, stop stating the same things over and over again. It is getting nauseating. If you are saying what you are to threaten people instead of inform us then do what you have to and shuffle off. The intention of starting this discussion was just that, to have a discussion. You have made you point, with detailed information a few hundred times now. Ok, that's exaggerating but it is how it feels. There have been a couple of instances that I have seen since I have been on Darkspyro where you could have easily said your piece and left it at that but you continue to drone on for some reason. We believe what you are saying but stop trying to scare everyone. You have sabotaged a completely innocent discussion into something much more than it needs to be. Allow the powers that be to make up their minds as to what is going to happen on this forum, allow people to discuss both sides in a reasonable manner, but I ask that you stop trying to scare people with this constant nonsense. You appear to have the desire to win every argument you put yourself in if it is the last thing you do. It must be tiring for you to have to keep up with that constant desire to win, I do know for sure it is tiring on this end to see all the needless bickering.

Have a look at previous posts from yourself in this topic, as you seem like such a hypocrite right now.

The ratio of UncleBob posts to mine are not even comparable. There is nothing wrong with having a healthy debate about something but enough with the U.S. law garbage already. Ever since I have been on here I have been respectful to everyone. Sure I will call somebody out when they are being obnoxious though, who wouldn't? I actually accept other individuals opinions but from the looks of your signature you can't say the same.

But you have been repeating your posts a lot, and even when someone explains to you, you repeat yourself again, and ignore everything you've been told. It's like you don't take "No" for an answer.

And really? Are you so gullible to believe my signature? That's just something else...that I've found to be very amusing indeedy.

I know there's certain risks that we take in everyday life, but in some cases we don't want to deliberately put ourselves into danger, anyone with a bit of common sense should realize this. Right?

Things will never change if people don't try. It never hurt anyone to talk about the possibilities of having a trading thread. If you get told "no" doing something one way the next logical step would be to say "well if we can't do it that way, how about this way instead"? Also, it is okay to ask questions too. Why is it not okay to trade figures but openly trading cards is fine? Why are the mods going after certain individuals signatures while some of the mods themselves are clearly not in compliance of the forum rules? Enquiring minds want to know these things!

Dude, every one of my posts is a *direct* reply to a post or question made by someone else. That is how conversations work.

Quote: TheGooch

Why is it not okay to trade figures but openly trading cards is fine?

I've pretty much answered this for you already - because Dark said so.

As I've stated before (and not to drone on...), all the excuses everyone is posting as to why we can't have a trading thread/forum are nothing more than excuses. The reason we don't have one is simply because Dark doesn't want there to be one. That's it, plain and simple.

Seriously, the idea of Dark getting into trouble because of a deal gone bad? Someone find me an article where the operator of a site was found guilty of anything when a deal went bad. I'd love to read about that.

Quote:

Why are the mods going after certain individuals signatures while some of the mods themselves are clearly not in compliance of the forum rules?

Have you tried using the "report" feature? I moderate on a couple of forums and let me tell you, I don't read every single post. In fact, I have signatures turned off because I don't even care to look at them. I rely on people to use that "report" feature.

Quote: BahamutBreaker

Quote: TheGooch

UncleBob, stop stating the same things over and over again. It is getting nauseating. You appear to have the desire to win every argument you put yourself in if it is the last thing you do. It must be tiring for you to have to keep up with that constant desire to win.

TheDouche, you are indeed the proverbial pot calling the kettle black, sir.
When I end up siding with UncleTroll against you, you should know you have reached a new low.

It is time to let this "trade thread" idea die. It was on life support from its birth and its vital signs are now failing. Pull the plug and give it rest.

Don't you have something better to do, anyway, TheDouche? Like maybe go hunt some black bears?

Yeah, as soon as your back, your already hurling around insults.

You've linked most of my posts, yet not the previous one. I actually have authority over somewhat seeing as I am a much superior user to you. Anyway, don't you have a rock to go crawl under?
Oh and now I'm getting penalized for my grammar by a 9-year old

Quote: jet-vac6000

You've linked most of my posts, yet not the previous one. I actually have authority over somewhat seeing as I am a much superior user to you. Anyway, don't you have a rock to go crawl under?

Jet-vac6000 ignore the ignorance. He will dig his own hole into suspension again. Hopefully this time for longer. I know it is ridiculous that we have to put up with such immature garbage but some people can't help themselves.

Quote: TheGooch

Quote: jet-vac6000

You've linked most of my posts, yet not the previous one. I actually have authority over somewhat seeing as I am a much superior user to you. Anyway, don't you have a rock to go crawl under?

Jet-vac6000 ignore the ignorance. He will dig his own hole into suspension again. Hopefully this time for longer. I know it is ridiculous that we have to put up with such immature garbage but some people can't help themselves.

Nah...

Quote: BahamutBreaker

Quote: TheGooch

Quote: jet-vac6000

You've linked most of my posts, yet not the previous one. I actually have authority over somewhat seeing as I am a much superior user to you. Anyway, don't you have a rock to go crawl under?

Jet-vac6000 ignore the ignorance. He will dig his own hole into suspension again. Hopefully this time for longer. I know it is ridiculous that we have to put up with such immature garbage but some people can't help themselves.

Nah. I'm done with you two.

Not quite sure why you ever started but to each their own I suppose. Hopefully your latest foolishness will give us more time away from you.

Yah, real mature. Oh and happy 5th Birthday

If we don't stand up & fight & let ppl know what we want, like gooch said, nothing will change. that's how life works!! Boston Tea Party, the fight between the US & British for thier freedom & own country, the fight for native americans to keep thier lands, & the fight for blacks to no longer be slaves & eventually vote & have inter racial marriages. a big one in history ppl laughed about & believed would NEVER HAPPEN was women's rights, AND women's roles in the military! But look at society now... so NEVER say never.. history prooves itself.. so we will continue to fight for what we want. i have listed SEVERAL ways to keep it safe.. tons of forums deal with B/S/Ting &there have been no death issues. just money or trading issues & ONLY when they dont follow the B/S/Ting rules carefully. Paypal is VERY easy & we can even have a easy step by step stickied topic with links & videos. EDIT: why not AT LEAST give it a trial run??! if dark isnt satisfied then he can shut the thread & topics down.

Okay, this topic is getting really out of hand here..

Quote: Aura24

Okay, this topic is getting really out of hand here..

No kidding! My original intention was to have a list of people who were interested in a trading forum which could then be submitted to Dark for his review. It was certainly open for discussion but not to turn into an argument.

Quote: TheGooch

I know it is ridiculous that we have to put up with such immature garbage [...]

I think the more burning question is how someone could be allowed to put what he put on your guest book, on a site where "the average user based of DarkSpyro could start at children younger than 10" and still be around.

Quote: terranakari

If we don't stand up & fight & let ppl know what we want, like gooch said, nothing will change. that's how life works!! Boston Tea Party, the fight between the US & British for thier freedom & own country, the fight for native americans to keep thier lands, & the fight for blacks to no longer be slaves & eventually vote & have inter racial marriages. a big one in history ppl laughed about & believed would NEVER HAPPEN was women's rights, AND women's roles in the military! But look at society now... so NEVER say never.. history prooves itself.. so we will continue to fight for what we want. i have listed SEVERAL ways to keep it safe.. tons of forums deal with B/S/Ting &there have been no death issues. just money or trading issues & ONLY when they dont follow the B/S/Ting rules carefully. Paypal is VERY easy & we can even have a easy step by step stickied topic with links & videos. EDIT: why not AT LEAST give it a trial run??! if dark isnt satisfied then he can shut the thread & topics down.

You're over-reacting here, and you're bringing up history that is completely irrelevant. And the history you speak of was nothing to do with you in the first place. You didn't fight for all of that, you wasn't even born then, so don't go bringing that old rubbish up. Don't go bragging about things that was never under your control, or part of your control to begin with.

Quote: SuperSpyroFan

Quote: terranakari

If we don't stand up & fight & let ppl know what we want, like gooch said, nothing will change. that's how life works!! Boston Tea Party, the fight between the US & British for thier freedom & own country, the fight for native americans to keep thier lands, & the fight for blacks to no longer be slaves & eventually vote & have inter racial marriages. a big one in history ppl laughed about & believed would NEVER HAPPEN was women's rights, AND women's roles in the military! But look at society now... so NEVER say never.. history prooves itself.. so we will continue to fight for what we want. i have listed SEVERAL ways to keep it safe.. tons of forums deal with B/S/Ting &there have been no death issues. just money or trading issues & ONLY when they dont follow the B/S/Ting rules carefully. Paypal is VERY easy & we can even have a easy step by step stickied topic with links & videos. EDIT: why not AT LEAST give it a trial run??! if dark isnt satisfied then he can shut the thread & topics down.

You're over-reacting here, and you're bringing up history that is completely irrelevant. And the history you speak of was nothing to do with you in the first place. You didn't fight for all of that, you wasn't even born then, so don't go bringing that old rubbish up.

All that stuff was of far more significance than what is being discussed here. This is just a simple suggestion on a single forum. They don't even compare. Doesn't matter how important this is to you, it's still a simple suggestion on one site.

Quote: UncleBob

Quote: TheGooch

I know it is ridiculous that we have to put up with such immature garbage [...]

I think the more burning question is how someone could be allowed to put what he put on your guest book, on a site where "the average user based of DarkSpyro could start at children younger than 10" and still be around.

Please tell me what is so immature in my guest book?

I'm not going to repost it. Go read the comments in your guestbook and you'll see what I'm talking about.

i was using examples you would all understand.... T_T i may not have been there during those times but we are the product of those historical events. it DOES effect me on what happened then. & if we DO get a B/S/Ting thread it'll be apart of the forums history. much like the forum finally getting mods.

Oh, "others" comments. Yeah I know. Isn't that lovely? Still waiting for all of my reported items to catch up with him again. This man of such high moral character can stoop so low sometimes.

Quote: terranakari

i was using examples you would all understand.... T_T i may not have been there during those times but we are the product of those historical events. it DOES effect me on what happened then. & if we DO get a B/S/Ting thread it'll be apart of the forums history. much like the forum finally getting mods.

Yes, I suppose you're right in that sense. It's still a rather inappropriate subject to bring up though. Just seems liike your finding random reasons to justify it. The REAL history was a big thing, but something as little as this is something different. I'm not sure if you actually READ my post or not.

I can not believe that the suggestion to bring a trading forum into this website is being compared to events of the American Revolution.

Oh hi again, finally decided to come out your cave?

i read it but must not have fully understood it??? but no i fully understand the comparison is a bit extreme but it was the only thing i figured that'd make any sene to understand. instead of ''jimmy had to negotiate & fight his mom to stay up later at night, & even though he felt he'd never win, his mom gave, in'' which is almost a joke to try & compare xD lol but no, i agree these two events are completely on the oposite ends of the scale, but they're still the same jist.

Quote: Spyrobaro

Quote: UncleBob

I think the more burning question is how someone could be allowed to put what he put on your guest book, on a site where "the average user based of DarkSpyro could start at children younger than 10" and still be around.

What other people post in someone's guestbook is not their fault.

Did *anyone* say that?