darkSpyro

First off if you don't want to hear political things on this forum you mine as well just zoom on past my post. .......


Just because Someone or a place makes money does it make it okay to cost them a few dollars. Does it make it okay to steal from them then? Why does it always boil down too they make millions so its Okay to take from them and it won't hurt. We all end up paying for it with higher prices. I am not trying to day that is what this person did but it seems to be the cool thing of they have money it wont hurt them.... or pay your fair share but that is only a one way street in most cases where only million dollar corps or rich people need to do that. Yet, when it is the businesses that are doing the money making and job creating for a lot of people in the USA. Yet we can't have real discusses with most "adults" or "leaders" in this country because it quickly turns into well that is not fair. Or some other reason..... Which I will leave out because of it opening another can of worms that I really don't want to get into.

Weather it be a big business, or something else don't just look at it they are Wal-Mart or what ever box store you can put in here, that it won't hurt them or us. In the end we will end up paying more because if it costs the store money they pass it on. I don't think I have ever heard of someone going into business just to lose money or break even.

Quote: Zook

My gosh, it's not fraud. The companies have the no receipt returns. They have no way of proving if it was purchased from there store or not. If they didn't have that policy it wouldn't happen, so they know of the possibility. Besides, these companies are multi million dollar corporations. A few dollar loss won't shut them down.

Just because you can't prove something or because it's not worth someone's time to go after you, doesn't mean it isn't fraud, it isn't illegal and it isn't wrong.

Quote: Zook

My gosh, it's not fraud. The companies have the no receipt returns. They have no way of proving if it was purchased from there store or not. If they didn't have that policy it wouldn't happen, so they know of the possibility. Besides, these companies are multi million dollar corporations. A few dollar loss won't shut them down.

Why do you think Wal-Mart ties it to your Drivers License and can only do three in a year? Because they have people to scam the system and steal and then get the money back on a card and then use that to buy stuff. They just didn't come up with the 3 in year rule while sitting around doing nothing. Everything happens for a reason. Which makes it harder for the rest of us.
(I want to say that I am not mad/upset at the person who did this in this thread. What gets me upset is the kind of thinking from above. People have this kind of thinking, that they are multi-million dollar corps and they can lose a couple of dollars and it is okay. Stick it to them, they are stinking rich and have vaults of gold sitting around that they can swim in. Yet, really most of the people who work for them are the average joe who needs money and lives pay check to pay check. Did you know that most places unless you are full time will not let you work more that 28 hours or so in a week now. Thanks to the government. Those are the people that end up getting hurt by people scamming or "costing the company a couple of dollars.")

Bazinga, I actually agree with you. I was never out to rip anyone off, no matter how much money they make. I'm sorry if what I did offended someone else and caused a commotion. I never meant to brag. I only included it in my experience to explain why I went to the other two Gamestops. I can see why some would consider it fraud. But if I could just go to the store and price match, what's the difference? I even got a little concerned because they originally only gave me a $20 gift card because they had previously been on sale and didn't give me the option to just go back and get the item I wanted. I thought I was going to have to pay the extra $5. I thought about not getting it at all if that was going to be the case, but I had already received the gift card and knew it wouldn't be right to just take $20 in credit for other things. So I took the item up to the front expecting to pay the extra $5, talked to the same lady and showed her what I was wanting to get. She saw that it was the same item and an even exchange and took care of it with no problems.

I have read many threads out there on other forums about buying games, movies, etc., especially at Target when they are B2G1 Free and returning some of the games to get a discounted price. That, to me, could be considered fraud. Because everyone was doing it, it was very tempting to do that, especially when they had the sale on Skylanders and didn't always have a good stock to warrant getting 3 of them. But I didn't do it.

UncleBob, you say I need to suck it up. What's to suck up? I have never argued. Just explained my side of things. If you don't agree with me, then fine. No skin off my back. I debated for a while even joining this forum because of all the childish talk, but it was always good for information, and I wanted to start putting my own information and discussion into it and be able to ask questions as well. I'm thankful for the support, even from those that may not totally agree with me, but are willing to move on. So that's what I'm doing. I ask for others to do the same and give UncleBob the courtesy of agreeing to disagree. I respect his opinion, and others as well, even if I don't respect the harshness that some were willing to go to. I think that was the real problem. I'm not sure UncleBob ever got as harsh as calling names as some did (although by claiming something is illegal when it's not or is questionable, does try to judge that person as a thief, but I'll digress). Sorry for all the commotion that sidetracked from the real topic. So let's move on and enjoy talking about why we're really here, and that's Skylanders.

Quote: Bazinga

First off if you don't want to hear political things on this forum you mine as well just zoom on past my post. .......

Just because Someone or a place makes money does it make it okay to cost them a few dollars. Does it make it okay to steal from them then? Why does it always boil down too they make millions so its Okay to take from them and it won't hurt. We all end up paying for it with higher prices. I am not trying to day that is what this person did but it seems to be the cool thing of they have money it wont hurt them.... or pay your fair share but that is only a one way street in most cases where only million dollar corps or rich people need to do that. Yet, when it is the businesses that are doing the money making and job creating for a lot of people in the USA. Yet we can't have real discusses with most "adults" or "leaders" in this country because it quickly turns into well that is not fair. Or some other reason..... Which I will leave out because of it opening another can of worms that I really don't want to get into.

Weather it be a big business, or something else don't just look at it they are Wal-Mart or what ever box store you can put in here, that it won't hurt them or us. In the end we will end up paying more because if it costs the store money they pass it on. I don't think I have ever heard of someone going into business just to lose money or break even.

Well, I will have to say to you that I agree with the idea on it not being right to knowingly return an item to somewhere you did not buy it without a receipt. Just because the company makes tons, treats their employees like crap and depends on the rest of us to make up what they aren't paying their employees doesn't make it right to commit return fraud. It isn't going to cause me a great deal of tears on behalf of Walmart or anything, but if society tells itself that committing a bad action is justified by the other person behaving badly it is a bottomless hole. At what point does someone choose to do the right thing? Do the right thing because it is the right thing. If their business model upsets you that much, then limit your shopping there as much as possible.

As far the big corporations doing the "money making" and the "job creating", LOL, they do far more of the former than the latter. There is a great disconnect in this country in the belief that wealth and success are a direct result of hard work and responsibility. And the same people believe that the low paid/unemployed are that way from lack of hard work. It is a political commercial, tailor made for the people that read the headlines and "feel" like it is correct. A great deal of the wealth in this country remains at the very top because the deck is so stacked in their favor, not because they are working harder than the next guy. Every time I hear "job creator" it reminds me that someone else has fallen for the Frank Luntz report that renamed "rich people" as "job creators" because it resonated better with the less intelligent.

I don't hate Walmart because they make a lot of money, I hate them because they do it by underpaying their employees so badly that a significant chunk of them are on government assistance in order to make a living wage. People have forgotten the lessons of Henry Ford. Costco operates a similar business and model, yet they exceed Walmart's growth significantly, and they treat their employees like living, breathing humans.

I was never upset at the original post in the first place. What gets me is the people who say they are an multi mission dollar corp and screw them they can handle it. That really gets under my skin.

Quote: Bazinga

I was never upset at the original post in the first place. What gets me is the people who say they are an multi mission dollar corp and screw them they can handle it. That really gets under my skin.

That's what I was agreeing with you about.

Quote: Himewad

I'm just glad Uncle Bob isn't razzing me this time about return fraud. Go get 'em, bobby.

And I'm glad that you're not making blind, ignorant attacks on someone's character, then refusing to apologize - even after you've been proven wrong. Stay Classy.

This discussion has become comical ... which is ironic since I think the people who have turned it into comedy appear to have done so while trying to be ultra-serious.

I don't even remember who in this thread originally stated that he bought a Battle Pack at GameStop and then EXCHANGED it for a different Battle Pack at another store ... but I want to be clear about two things in that person's defense:
1. He EXCHANGED it at a different store. He did NOT "return" the item to another store to make profit (in the form of cash or store credit). As far as the store is concerned, it's an EVEN SWAP. You can argue that the store lost a trivial amount of hypothetical profit based on the man-power required to process the exchange and re-shelve the item, but I assure you the store was paying those employees anyways, whether they are processing an exchange or picking their nose.

2. He did not come on here "bragging" about what he did. The tone of that post may have had a tinge of pride in it, but it was mostly just stating the facts and expressing excitement. I realize that tone is highly subjective when reading internet posts, but again I highly doubt that person was "bragging".

Lastly, B F D.
You're wasting your collective breaths trying to defend morality in the retail industry. If you want to bash someone or something in this scenario, BASH GAMESTOP. GameStop pulled a classic "Bait and Switch" with this promotion, and THAT is a far more flagrant and reprehensible foul than one individual's actions which are being misconstrued as "return fraud".

Okay.... So what BahamutBreaker said last is the right thing to do in this. I have sent them a couple of emails to their customer care department or whatever they call it. Last time it took 4 or 5 days to hear from them even though it says 48 hours on their website. I can only encourage others to tell Gamestop how they tried to pull the wool over our eyes while they did what they did and we have caught on and are not happy about it.

As far as the other stuff, I am sorry as I contributed to the derailing of this topic and will admit when I am wrong or do something that should not have been done. My main point in what I was trying to say is that Big Business get blamed for everything.... Some of which they may deserve. However, keep in mind that they have business models that work. From Wal-Mart all the way to Wells Fargo and Bank of America. The only way to change that is too take your business somewhere else and get them to change it.

My next comment is not directed at defpally in anyway shape or form, just more of a thing that I have come to my own conclusion in life.....

When people get mad because Wal-Mart (Or any type of business) does not pay their employees XX.XX amount of dollars an hour, it is still a job. Which with out them the employee would be fulling living off of government and my tax dollars. Which keep in mind they already take 500 dollars every two weeks so I think they can keep their hands off. (No, I don't make millions of dollars. I gross about 1300 every two weeks.) People seem to think that just because someone does not get 40 hours a week at 20 bucks an hour that it does not help someone. It does.

Here is the problem with the "exchange" logic. Let's say you pick up a, for example, Swarm at a Gamestop in order to get a Sidekick, then you take it to Walmart and "exchange" it for a Ninjini. Yes, you have not decreased their stock list value, but what you have done is replace their stock of one highly desired item with a shelf warmer. Again, this is an example. But while technically you haven't stolen, if they wanted more Swarms they would buy more Swarms not have their customers shift their stock around. That's why it isn't right, even if it is a less extreme example. I do not like Walmart, but I also don't justify doing mean things to people I don't like either. It's just me.

Now Bazinga, I don't take it wrong so don't worry, there are just some hot button points in debates that will definitely solicit my input. No, I don't want you to have to give up thirty percent of your paycheck - and that is my point, you shouldn't have to. No one really argues that Walmart or wealthy people should have to pay 40% in taxes (although 40-50 years ago they did and the economy did just fine). I just think maybe you need to pay 20% instead AND Walmart needs to pay 20% as well. Thanks to tax loopholes the highest tax rates have to be set at 35+% to get the Mitt Romneys of the country to cough up 11%. Should you pay 30 cent of every dollar you make when he only pays 11 simply because he makes more of them? Walmart pays as little as possible because they know they can get you to foot the bill for the rest of what people need to live then fight for them because they are the "job creators". You should bow down and love them because they throw a pittance at the economy while they fill their pockets.

And you know what, if in this example, Walmart employees were paid more they would probably spend more at places like ... Walmart, and they would require less government assistance. But why help the whole economy to help yourself when you can just shave it off the top and just help yourself only? Direct your anger at them for making you subsidize their business model not at the people that just want to eat and pay rent.

Quote: BahamutBreaker

GameStop pulled a classic "Bait and Switch" with this promotion, and THAT is a far more flagrant and reprehensible foul than one individual's actions which are being misconstrued as "return fraud".

Yeah, I opened a ticket on the web site; we'll see what happens. I like breathing, so I won't hold my breath. But at least they'll know that I know.

See I think that is where you and I disagree. While I don't agree with the 11% (which if you look at our president know he does/did the same thing) I think instead of holding anger towards someone for doing something that is not illegal hold your anger to the government for putting those loopholes in and not closing them. Honestly, If I had money to pay someone to find me ways to save money and put more in my pocket, I would. I can bet you that everyone on here would do it too.

Gamestop sent me a pretyped email asking me for the receipt information, sale #, contact phone number, and address if they have to send me one.

EDIT: Here's the email. I'm just gonna contact them and speak to them directly

And who funds our politician's campaigns? You and I? Who can score a personal phone call or a sitdown lunch with a senator? You and I? Nope. But Walmart's top brass can do it. That's how those loopholes get put in. It isn't like the politicians sit around and go "hmm, how can I help some rich people". My anger is directed at exactly the right place, the source of the problem. You are being naive if you blame it on the politicians alone, they are but the vessels of the problem.

And the issue with people having to work multiple jobs because companies are trying to skirt providing healthcare? And you want to blame that on the president? Healthcare should not be a profit center, it should be a right. We are a first world country, we shouldn't be denying people healthcare because Papa Johns might have to raise the price of their pizzas 14 cents. Don't blame me for having to punish my employees because I'm too cheap! If they paid a decent wage and provided decent benefits then maybe they wouldn't be able to undercut their competitors that take care of their employees. And those employees would then command more buying power that drives those same business' bottom line. Or we can just make rich people richer and poor people poorer.

I don't think people should be denied healthcare, but insurance is funny...you have to not need it to buy it. I have type II diabetes and think it's wrong that someone 20 years old has to pay higher premiums because of covering pre-existing conditions. The effort / heart was in the right place here, but the government running it is asking for problems.

I say if everyone pays out of pocket and insurance companies go away you would have competition for services and prices would be driven lower NATURALLY. And you pay for what you need. For the first time in my life I'm wondering if I should just go out of pocket and leave the rest for disaster insurance.

Difficult problems sometimes don't need difficult solutions...in my mind this is all very achievable...problem is as you say politicians will always listen to the squeaky wheel and there's too many lobbyists with too much money swaying the vote.

My only political post here.

This is just some dimwitted argument going on.....

Taco... As in reference to what? The original one? Maybe kinda. Otherwise most of us are having a healthy discussion on things. Again, it kind of boils down too if you don't like the discussion then don't partake.

Quote: GhostRoaster

I don't think people should be denied healthcare, but insurance is funny...you have to not need it to buy it. I have type II diabetes and think it's wrong that someone 20 years old has to pay higher premiums because of covering pre-existing conditions. The effort / heart was in the right place here, but the government running it is asking for problems.

I say if everyone pays out of pocket and insurance companies go away you would have competition for services and prices would be driven lower NATURALLY. And you pay for what you need. For the first time in my life I'm wondering if I should just go out of pocket and leave the rest for disaster insurance.

Difficult problems sometimes don't need difficult solutions...in my mind this is all very achievable...problem is as you say politicians will always listen to the squeaky wheel and there's too many lobbyists with too much money swaying the vote.

My only political post here.

The government doesn't screw everything up, and neither does private business do everything correctly. That is a myth, and the government is beneficial because it can provide something without it being profit driven, in some cases that is needed. Reagan's aura is far more made up than reality these days, he sure could turn a phrase in a speech - that's what actors do. His own family/close friends even admit he wouldn't be welcomed by the right anymore.



You do not have to eliminate the health insurance industry to do this, they could still exist as contractor to the government that manages payments. The individual would just see their Medicare rate go up and their need to buy insurance go away. And when they went to the doctor instead of going "hey, maybe I can muscle through this sinus infection and not have to pay $150 to get an office visit and $50 for a prescription" they would go "I'll just get this fixed and not get anyone else sick". Or they would get a yearly checkup and find out they had a problem before winding up in an emergency room.

And yeah this debate is way more dimwitted than "I didn't get my sidekick!" or "they had Ninjini and not SCARLET Ninjini!". Gamestop's event was a bust and they didn't prepare their employees. Pretty much par for the course with them. At least most people were able to get Polar finally.

This is a topic discussing the Gamestop event, not have a huge argument .-.

It isn't an argument, it is a debate. People can disagree without being mad at each other. Sometimes topics will flow into other discussions, especially when the topic at hand was pretty much covered by the end of page 1. Not much going on in Skylanders Giants anyways with all the nonsense and silence from TFB/Activision.

^Two words, rationed healthcare...and "there's no such thing as a free lunch"...

Nice pic...goes up there with Keynesian Economics.

On Topic...Gamestop's management needs to reflect on the event...it's a disaster...much like our deficit.

Quote: GhostRoaster

^Two words, rationed healthcare...and "there's no such thing as a free lunch"...

Nice pic...goes up there with Keynesian Economics.

On Topic...Gamestop's management needs to reflect on the event...it's a disaster...much like our deficit.

Heaven forbid you not be able to get a doctor appointment right this freaking second. The haves and the have nots is great when you "have". Sucks to be those other guys, but hey they are all just lazy bums that deserve to get sick, right? The least among us are often not there by their own lack of effort, and I for one don't have to be on the short end of the stick in order to have compassion for those that are.

And one of those economic theories is proven to help recover in a recession (including the most recent one), and one has repeatedly proven it does nothing more than trash the economy as wealth is funneled upwards (including the most recent recession). I would think people would want to not embrace the economic policy that Dubya wielded so elegantly.

If you are so worried about the deficit, did you complain as Bush started two trillion wars and the hawks are clamoring for a new one now? Or when he blew billions on tax cuts that didn't help the economy AT ALL? Or backed a completely unpaid for Medicare expansion? Or are those only bad when a Democrat does it? Same thing happened 20 years ago, Clinton was elected, oh noes the DEFICIT, think of the children! GW Bush gets elected, deficit who? Maybe since Bush isn't doing much other than painting these days Gamestop can hire him and everyone will conveniently forget about this mess.

What happened to cause this argument?

DragonCamo...

Let me tell you a story...

This thread started with people posting about the gamestop event and who was going and what not.

It then turned into... Gamestop really screwed the pooch on it and something needs to be done.

It then went to someone doing something with a battle pack......

Then someone came in and said something about screwing a big box store... maybe not in those exact words but that is what was said.


Defpally a couple of things. (I have had the day from hell and not really into any arguing right now but I will continue this convo.)

I agree that government has it place. However, I think that it has gotten way too big for his pants and it needs to back down. As far as Bush and causing stuff. Yes, he did cause some stuff. But last time I checked he had not been in office for 4.5 years or so. When do we stop blaming Bush for everything and have our president take blame for some of the 6-7 trillion in debt he has racked up. I get that it is not all Obama's fault but he does need to take some blame. I know that if Bush got the same treatment that Obama did we would have a different light on things now. Benghazi is a big one that Obama has gotten a free pass on. Could he have stopped what was going on? Probably not. However, he could tell us where he was, and why/who ordered the stand down. Yes, Hilary it does matter.

One final note. To the people who don't like these type of convos please just skip over them and do other things. We are two adults who actually agree on most stuff just to a different extent of them. It is a healthy convo that we can have and we are not getting mad at each other and are just discussing our views and points within the natural flow of the convo of this topic.

Here's to Defpally... Someone I can have a reasonable convo with on a website.

I enjoy these derails at times I do enjoy ppls inputs on things other then skylanders. (I am being serious, not sarcastic) Just as long as they don't turn into a war

defpally: There's plenty of decisions by both parties that irritate me. For me, I'll earn what I spend and spend what I earn. I don't ask anyone to hand me anything. If everyone had that motto, and an economy to support it...we wouldn't need the government. And, I don't need my liberties taken away for me for the "good" of anyone. Lasseiz-faire is a thing of the past, but more laws don't seem to be helping either. Good ole freedom of choice--oh wait.

Btw, I'm not defending any government entity. I'd be just find without them, thank you. Well, except for local/state municipalities. They actually provide me a service.

And guys, I'm sure defpally isn't "arguing"---it's simply debating/point of view. I don't get that at all from his posts. He's good in my book...Gamestop and the government on the other hand...hehehe

Hey guys! I pre-ordered Swap Force at TRU tonight (still undecided) and found Drobot! Wa-hoo!

Quote: GhostRoaster

defpally: There's plenty of decisions by both parties that irritate me. For me, I'll earn what I spend and spend what I earn. I don't ask anyone to hand me anything. If everyone had that motto, and an economy to support it...we wouldn't need the government. And, I don't need my liberties taken away for me for the "good" of anyone. Lasseiz-faire is a thing of the past, but more laws don't seem to be helping either. Good ole freedom of choice--oh wait.

Btw, I'm not defending any government entity. I'd be just find without them, thank you. Well, except for local/state municipalities. They actually provide me a service.

Hey guys! I pre-ordered Swap Force at TRU tonight (still undecided) and found Drobot! Wa-hoo!

Congrats on Drobot!

I was just saying your logic works fine until something bad happens. It is a very "won't happen to me" type of thing. That's what everyone thinks until it happens to them. Another thing Reagan was big on was the "welfare queen" stereotype. It made people think that everyone that needs help is just lazy and taking advantage of the system.

Let me put it this way, lets say you lost your job and had something bad happen and had trouble finding a new job (and in the recent years this was NOT uncommon). Would you "spend only what you earn" if your kids were hungry, or didn't have clothes to wear to school or a roof over their head? Of course not, and no one expects you to. You would be surprised the number of hard working people that end up in that situation.

Quote: defpally

Quote: GhostRoaster

defpally: There's plenty of decisions by both parties that irritate me. For me, I'll earn what I spend and spend what I earn. I don't ask anyone to hand me anything. If everyone had that motto, and an economy to support it...we wouldn't need the government. And, I don't need my liberties taken away for me for the "good" of anyone. Lasseiz-faire is a thing of the past, but more laws don't seem to be helping either. Good ole freedom of choice--oh wait.

Btw, I'm not defending any government entity. I'd be just find without them, thank you. Well, except for local/state municipalities. They actually provide me a service.

Hey guys! I pre-ordered Swap Force at TRU tonight (still undecided) and found Drobot! Wa-hoo!

Congrats on Drobot!

I was just saying your logic works fine until something bad happens. It is a very "won't happen to me" type of thing. That's what everyone thinks until it happens to them. Another thing Reagan was big on was the "welfare queen" stereotype. It made people think that everyone that needs help is just lazy and taking advantage of the system.

Let me put it this way, lets say you lost your job and had something bad happen and had trouble finding a new job (and in the recent years this was NOT uncommon). Would you "spend only what you earn" if your kids were hungry, or didn't have clothes to wear to school or a roof over their head? Of course not, and no one expects you to. You would be surprised the number of hard working people that end up in that situation.

Now that my wife is finishing up the Stanley Cup Final (she was rooting for Chicago), maybe I can play him!

Yep, understood there...but on the flip side I'm also tired of the programs ENABLING dependency. That swirling sound you hear is not Whirlwind but our future going down the tubes.

Quote: defpally

Quote: GhostRoaster

defpally: There's plenty of decisions by both parties that irritate me. For me, I'll earn what I spend and spend what I earn. I don't ask anyone to hand me anything. If everyone had that motto, and an economy to support it...we wouldn't need the government. And, I don't need my liberties taken away for me for the "good" of anyone. Lasseiz-faire is a thing of the past, but more laws don't seem to be helping either. Good ole freedom of choice--oh wait.

Btw, I'm not defending any government entity. I'd be just find without them, thank you. Well, except for local/state municipalities. They actually provide me a service.

Hey guys! I pre-ordered Swap Force at TRU tonight (still undecided) and found Drobot! Wa-hoo!

Congrats on Drobot!

I was just saying your logic works fine until something bad happens. It is a very "won't happen to me" type of thing. That's what everyone thinks until it happens to them. Another thing Reagan was big on was the "welfare queen" stereotype. It made people think that everyone that needs help is just lazy and taking advantage of the system.

Let me put it this way, lets say you lost your job and had something bad happen and had trouble finding a new job (and in the recent years this was NOT uncommon). Would you "spend only what you earn" if your kids were hungry, or didn't have clothes to wear to school or a roof over their head? Of course not, and no one expects you to. You would be surprised the number of hard working people that end up in that situation.

Good Job on Drobot....

The thing about the welfare queen is that it is true to some extent. I AM NOT SAYING IT IS ALWAYS TRUE, but the program does get abused more than it should. I worked at Quik Trip for years. (It is a convenience store) People would come in with their EBT/Food Stamps and would buy pop, chips, candy, energy drinks and all the unhealthy sorts. Sometimes 75 plus dollars, then turn around and buy an 18 pack of bud, some Newports and lottery tickets. I don't really blame the person in that case more of the program needs changed to make it more for healthy foods instead of junk. In some states they give money on their EBT/Food Stamp cards to buy "Household goods" in which they mean... anything. I had to explain to people from Minnesota that they couldn't buy beer or cigs with that card. I think some state had passed a law stating they couldn't use the EBT card at an adult establishment anymore. Kind of a weird place to buying the milk if you ask me.

I think we can agree that maybe the program needs to be changed and some of the people who state hop for their cards or sell them need to have something done with them.

Quote: Bazinga

Defpally a couple of things. (I have had the day from hell and not really into any arguing right now but I will continue this convo.)

I agree that government has it place. However, I think that it has gotten way too big for his pants and it needs to back down. As far as Bush and causing stuff. Yes, he did cause some stuff. But last time I checked he had not been in office for 4.5 years or so. When do we stop blaming Bush for everything and have our president take blame for some of the 6-7 trillion in debt he has racked up. I get that it is not all Obama's fault but he does need to take some blame. I know that if Bush got the same treatment that Obama did we would have a different light on things now. Benghazi is a big one that Obama has gotten a free pass on. Could he have stopped what was going on? Probably not. However, he could tell us where he was, and why/who ordered the stand down. Yes, Hilary it does matter.

The thing is though, people complain about the budget deficit, but in reality it is coming down - actually pretty quickly. The early Obama years were the bills of the Bush years coming due, so yes - let's put blame where it is due. People were blaming Obama for Bush's problems before he even got his suitcase unpacked.

And Benghazi is such a red herring. Yes, four people died and that is a shame - but there have been dozens of attacks in the past with more deaths that didn't cause hearing after hearing after hearing. The only reason people are even still talking about it is because Fox has been trying to make hay over it since it happened. Fox conveniently leaves out the fact that Congress CUT the security budget of our embassies in the months leading up to it. Sure Rice said some premature things on the Sunday talk shows, but come on - Fox freaks out if Obama doesn't use the word "terrorist" in a timely fashion after an attack, so now they are upset that his administration spoke too soon. Make up your mind, you either want from the hip or measured, thought out comments - you cannot have both.

And the most telling thing about this whole thing is that this is the best they have against the president. Not that he could have done something that would have saved those people, but all of this BS about who knew what when or said what on TV right after it happened. Bad things happen in destabilized countries. What has Congress done to prevent this from happening again, raise security budgets? Nope, they've been holding hearings about what was said on the Sunday talk shows. Trust me, if they had found something then Darrel Issa would have painted it in twelve foot tall letters on the outside of the Capitol Building.

Honestly, I'd be a little more upset about how the previous president willfully lied to get us into a war that cost us thousands of lives and a trillion dollars. Number of hearings on that one? Zero.

Quote: Bazinga

The thing about the welfare queen is that it is true to some extent. I AM NOT SAYING IT IS ALWAYS TRUE, but the program does get abused more than it should. I worked at Quik Trip for years. (It is a convenience store) People would come in with their EBT/Food Stamps and would buy pop, chips, candy, energy drinks and all the unhealthy sorts. Sometimes 75 plus dollars, then turn around and buy an 18 pack of bud, some Newports and lottery tickets. I don't really blame the person in that case more of the program needs changed to make it more for healthy foods instead of junk. In some states they give money on their EBT/Food Stamp cards to buy "Household goods" in which they mean... anything. I had to explain to people from Minnesota that they couldn't buy beer or cigs with that card. I think some state had passed a law stating they couldn't use the EBT card at an adult establishment anymore. Kind of a weird place to buying the milk if you ask me.

I think we can agree that maybe the program needs to be changed and some of the people who state hop for their cards or sell them need to have something done with them.

Yes, there absolutely is abuse of our welfare system. I'm all for cleaning up abuse where it occurs, and for work requirements. The problem is to fix it takes a good deal of effort and would likely harm the people that truly need it and will use it correctly. People that take advantage of the system tend to be far better at using the system than people that truly need the help. That's the tricky part and why they don't just cut it out, the fix needs to do more good than bad. And a interesting point to all of this, the lobbyists for corporations like Walmart do quite a bit behind the scenes to keep those food stamps available and able to be used on "junk" food. It would be a big hit on Walmart's bottom line if Food Stamps had to be used on healthy food.

Quote: GhostRoaster

Now that my wife is finishing up the Stanley Cup Final (she was rooting for Chicago), maybe I can play him!

Yep, understood there...but on the flip side I'm also tired of the programs ENABLING dependency. That swirling sound you hear is not Whirlwind but our future going down the tubes.

Our biggest problem isn't the people that are satisfied sponging $20k a year off the government buying Cheetoes and beer instead of healthy food. Our biggest problem is that 1% of our population controls almost half of the wealth and the gap keep growing. The distribution looks like the 1920s, and there was a major reckoning from that. Hard work is less and less correlated with success because that group has insatiable thirst for more and more, and they have no intentions of allowing anyone else join them. They pay pennies on the dollar in taxes and want every social program cut to pay even less. You didn't hear too many people arguing about the 2% payroll tax increase we all got in January, but gosh darn it we heard all about people making over a quarter million a year having to put in a bit more. That is so backwards.

I'm at least heartened that last election proved that despite the indication to the contrary, all the private money they threw at getting people elected had next to no return on their investment. That's why they are going after voting laws. Not because there is widespread fraud, but because they can't get poor people to stop voting.

Im sorry i asked
Now if youll escuse me, i shall abandon the thread.
Good day sirs

Quote: DragonCamo

Im sorry i asked
Now if youll escuse me, i shall abandon the thread.
Good day sirs

No, it is fine. And as mentioned, it isn't an argument, it is a debate. There is no name calling or personal attacks, it is just a few people with differing opinions debating the points. A healthy discussion.

The thread stopped having a point long before the debate started. It's nice to talk about some other things with these guys.