darkSpyro

Just started collecting/playing Skylanders when Target had their sale on the starter pack. Now I'm backtracking and trying to play catch up with the SSA figures and some of the store exclusives. Most of the normal release stuff I open and play with on the portal. However with some of the exclusives I prefer to leave them in the package. In the past week I received 2 items from eBay auctions, one of which was the Amazon gold Flameslinger, and when they showed up in my mailbox I was distraught. They were shipped in envelopes...one of them wasn't even a padded envelope, just a manilla envelope that you'd send a document in. Needless to say the bubble was crushed, cracked and destroyed. The figures survived but I wasn't happy.

Now I realize that to most these are just toys, but there is definitely a collector aspect to this. It's definitely become a pain to have to contact every seller for every item that I might bid on just to ask if they plan on shipping things to me in a box. What are your thoughts?

-Grishnaar

If the condition of the item you receive does not match what is described in the auction, you have every right to be upset. It is the seller's responsibility to ensure that an item is packaged correctly so you receive it in the same condition that they advertised. However, if you plan to pursue this then be prepared to get the runaround as a lot of sellers will try to weasel out of responsibility in situations like this.

Side note, I'm surprised that Amazon finally sold out of their gold Flameslingers. It was listed for quite a while.

Sorry that happened to you, Grishnaar.

You do have a right to be upset, and I would absolutely contact your Ebay seller and inform them about what happened immediately. If s/he is a responsible seller, s/he will issue you a refund. If not, you could be in for a long, drawn-out "battle" as you work your way through PayPal's dispute process.

It's kinda funny that this is the second time I've brought this up today on these forums.
If you purchase Skylanders via Ebay sellers, you *MUST* read their listing notes and policies to see what type of packaging they use. If it's not listed/described in the auction notes, pose the question directly to the seller via message. If s/he doesn't respond and/or will not commit to shipping in a cardboard box, then you can be almost certain that s/he uses envelopes for shipping.

I encourage people to be VERY wary of sellers that offer "free shipping" on Ebay for Skylanders. A lot of the sellers that offer "free shipping" are merely using that as a ploy to attract bidders ... and frankly, it works. But a LOT of those "free shippers" aren't going to eat the cost of shipping packing and shipping your item with quality protective packaging ... nope; instead they're gonna throw your item in an envelope and ship it. It's a lesson you learned the hard way, Grishnaar, but you're not the first, and you won't be the last. Thank you for posting this story, though. Hopefully, some other would-be Ebay buyers that read this will be able to avoid the same mistake.

Unfortunately, it is a necessary precaution to ask the seller to "protect" your purchase by asking them to wrap in bubble wrap and send in a sturdy cardboard box. Unless I've dealt with the seller and their auction states how they intend to ship, I will ALWAYS ask for my items to be shipped in bubble wrap within a sturdy cardboard box.

The saying "you get what you pay for," definitely applies to shipping if you have unaware sellers trying to make a quick buck.

I have received many refunds, some partial, as a result of this kind of mishap. If you're willing to live with the damage try reasoning with the seller and requesting a partial refund. Depending upon the damage I typically request a 15-40% refund of the purchase price. The key is to do so respectfully, quickly, and with adequate proof of what has happened.

Welcome to the Skylanders collecting world!!!

Oh well, thanks for the input guys, glad to see I'm not crazy. I guess I just got spoiled with the many years of collecting Star Wars stuff where I never really had to worry about stuff arriving that way. In most cases I'd get my Star Wars figures delivered in Star Cases for even more protection (man I wish they'd make some that fit Skylanders!) without even asking.

But that is a good point, with eBay shoehorning the whole free shipping movement on us I guess its time to be more careful.

-Grishnaar

Consider this a lessons learned on your part on assuming the eBay seller gives a flip about what you are purchasing. eBay is the largest flea market, and if you've been to one...you know it attracts "all sorts of interesting people". Most are trying to ship it to you with as least a cost to them as possible--especially if free shipping is offered. Many that offer free shipping will even state they will not box it. Read their auctions carefully.

Yes this is a pain to contact each and every seller but it gives them a heads up that you need special attention. Personally any seller on eBay should respect the merchandise but when you have huge corps like TRU that ship in similarly haphazard manner I guess it never hurts to "be safe rather than sorry". Here's what I send to each and every seller that I purchase from provided the auction itself doesn't turn me off. This helps qualifies the quality of the item and their shipping methods. Consider this free and sage advice:

"Hi--I'm interested in purchasing this item. Can you please tell me if there's any bends, creases or tears on the cardboard on the front or the back of the item, and if there's any blisters or any other observable defects on the bubble? Do you offer boxed shipping with bubble wrap/peanuts to fully protect the item so it arrives in displayed condition? I don't plan on opening my box and its condition is important to me."

My first skylanders purchase was for a Pirate Seas and Lightning Rod Cynder Zook 3 pack from SSA--both were sent in a bubble mailer. Still have em--don't know if I'm going to break em out and sell them individually or sell damaged. I like you learned the hard way (although I should've known better I was absent from eBay for a few years and have forgotten the countless hand holding required).

I also request more pictures if some are missing. Most have been amenable to the request. If they don't bother to respond, I don't bid--real simple. I don't recommend partial refunds as I don't think eBay supports that policy. That's lose lose since you are living with damaged merchandise and the seller is expected to receive less. If they offer a return, go for it if it gets damaged after all of the above--reason with the seller---and open a case "did not receive item in stated condition" if it goes south.

A seller sent me a 25th anniversary edition Super Mario Allstars wii game, inside the box was Super Mario galaxy, I contacted the seller, and was given a full refund and did not have to come out of pocket to send it back.

A seller sent me a collectible and due to the sellers cheap shipping methods, envelope with bubble wrap, the box was damaged, I contacted the seller and asked the seller what we could do to resolve this. Seller stated i can send it back or get a partial refund. You see the problem is, now I have to come out of pocket to pay for shipping on a return.?

No, if the seller refuses to give you a full refund on a damaged item, open a claim. Most sellers with a good track history will take a loss if they know they are at fault. I am only speaking from experience, everyone has a story.

it is a good idea to always check shipping method and type before purchasing an item. Best to contact seller prior to them shipping, and ensure they are shipping in a box on items you think to be of worth.

you do have the right to be upset on a item you purchased described and photographed as new, with your good hard earned money, only to receive it damaged. You did not pay for a damaged item, you payed for a new one and that is what you should receive.

And finally sorry for your misfortune, use this opportunity like most stated above, as a learning tool, and stay positive.

If you are purchasing it for a Collection and want the packaging in "Mint" condition, you should follow the 3 simple rules.

1) Check the ad to see if they discribe the shipping method (How it is being shipped). Go to step 3 if they are shipping it in a box.
2a) If they explain the shipping method and it is not in a box, move on to another ad.
2b) If they don't explain the shipping method, contact the seller and ask the questions below:
"Is this shipped in a box?" and "Is the item, including the packaging in "Mint" Condition?"
3) Even though they are shipping it in a box, you should still contact them asking them: "Is the item, including the packaging in "Mint" Condition?"

Make sure you copy the message (There is a "Copy Message" button that you should check before sending the message to the seller) so you have proof of your messages in case you need it in the future. This will help your claim if you need to get a refund.

I've received figures from the following in padded envelopes:

Private Sell from CAG (broken Cynder that I specifically wanted because it was broken, so it made no sense to ship in an envelope).
eBay Auction shipped from the UK (Dark Spyro that I specifically mentioned I already had an open one of from the 3DS starter, so it was obvious I wanted one in the package).
Amazon US (Gold Flameslinger, which is being sold as an exclusive collectable, so there's no excuse for shipping in an envelope).
Toys R Us (Twice, Blue Bash and Legendary Stealth Elf - both sold as exclusive collectables, again, no excuse).

From here on out, if I order from ANYONE eBay/private sales, I make it clear that I want it shipped in a box. Should I have to? No. But I do anyway.

Quote: UncleBob

I make it clear that I want it shipped in a box. Should I have to? No. But I do anyway.

The answer is "YES", you should ask. First off it is a toy. The seller does not know what you are using it for except that it is a toy and expects you to play with it or give it to some one who will play with it. When buying a TOY you should ask questions to the seller if you plan on using it for anything other than a TOY. The only exception that I would expect it to be in a box is if it is a Chase Variant that are selling for over $100's of dollars and that is if the seller claims that it is in "Mint" condition.

As for your Exclusive collectible from Amazon and TRU, No they are not sold as Exclusive "Collectibles", they are sold as exclusive "TOYS". Which means that they are exclusive to that store and means you can only get the "TOYS" there.

It makes me sick that I see people claim that they are buying these to collect and not ask questions, but if they are TRUE collectors they know better and ask questions before purchasing an item if they are truly collecting. I see it as an escape goat to get something at a discount or even for free. Some of these complaints are for figures that are not impossible to find if you take the time and look. Plus you can know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is in "Mint" condition when you find it in the store.

Dinoah2005 makes excellent points in my opinion.

From my perspective, I'd call myself an avid Skylanders enthusiast, but not a "true" collector. My family has a large collection, with some hard-to-find items, but we're not after the "chase" characters, and we don't own multiple copies of each/every possible character and alternate packaging. Viewing these forums, it's plainly obvious that there are many "true" collectors here.

What I'd like everyone reading this to consider is ... who do you think the average secondary market seller (Ebay, Amazon, etc.) sees as his/her customer base? Avid enthusiasts? Or "true" collectors?

In my opinion, the BEST secondary market sellers know that BOTH avid enthusiasts AND "true" collectors are important sectors of the Skylanders market.
However .... those sellers are most likely few and far between. The vast MAJORITY of secondary market sellers see us as avid enthusiasts ... at best ... it's more likely that they see us as children who are going to shred the packaging of the Skylanders toys as soon as they arrive in the mail, just like kids tend to do with wrapping paper on Christmas morning (no offense to anyone who doesn't celebrate Christmas!). To be frank, it probably doesn't even cross the mind of the average secondary market seller (or even major retailers that ship) that anyone bothers to collect Skylanders "in the box".

The bottom line is that collecting Skylanders in boxed mint condition is a very new phenomenon. We're not talking about baseball cards, vintage coins, stamps, or comic books where there is a long-established, well-understood expectation that buyers/sellers/traders tacitly share a unique appreciation for the goods they trade. In other words, if you expect a seller or retailer to ship a lightweight item (like most Skylanders) in a box, without checking or asking, then you're gambling and assuming too much. Should it be that way? Not from the "true" collector's perspective ... of course not. But just keep in mind that a lot of sellers and retailers have never visited DarkSpyro ... or even heard of it ... they don't know "true" collectors even exist for Skylanders ... at least not yet.

BahamutBreaker,
Thank You for backing me up.
I am sorry if I offend the TRUE Collectors and for those few, I know you are asking questions before purchasing and I applaud you for your dedication to collect this great game.

For "me"...I simply want the best presented copy...for some...it's making sure the figure wasn't painted by a monkey...for some, it's making sure the box is free from markings dents or creases etc. I collect comics so condition is in my blood, and unfortunately it drives me nuts when I buy sight unseen--which is why I'm limiting eBay purchases for the "can't find in store" chase variants.

Btw, I don't describe "condition" to a seller like "Mint" etc...cause these are subjective terms...even in comics everyone has an opinion of a "grade" even though Overstreet has very specific instructions on what constitutes a grade a comic gets. For this stuff--I simply ask for the basics---is it dinged? does it look like your dog chewed on it? etc...and I've been very successful just sticking to the facts of the product itself.

Overall, though---you are correct---most are avid gamers...the collectables market isn't necessarily created for this yet and is speculative. It won't stop others from treating it as such...and time will tell if it takes hold. I DO know that if the raw market for this stuff remains strong it probably won't matter what condition the box is in...20 years from now---it might be a different story. Food for thought: I would've never guessed there would be a collectable market for video games...but it's starting to take hold now. What do adults collect? Ask them what they played when they were kids. For my generation, it was Star Wars figures and comics...this generation...

I'm also not under any illusions on the word "rare". In an age with ever increasing population and the fact that mass quantities are the norm...odds are against these being "rare".

TRU tends to just throw stuff in envelopes. I tend to just take them to the store and exchange them for one i can pick out if they come in very bad shape.

I am also mad at someone when I bought a Skylander. It was not eBay, but at school. I was expecting to get a S2 Zap figure card and sticker. My friend said he didn't know where it went. He said theat my other friend kept the card. But when I asked, he said he didn't have it either. It got confusing, so unless the seller of the Zap finds the card, I will have to find a way to get one.

So, can someone help me get a S2 Zap stat card? The one that comes with the figure? If so, that would be nice. Just PM me for details.

No you have every right to be upset. But it will depend on the seller how easy it is to resolve this. Some are very open to working with you and some will give you a very hard time in cases like this.

You may need to involve ebay if its not resolved via the seller. Before you contact them be sure to screenshot the ebay item page so you have proof of what the item looked like prior to it being damaged.

Caveat emptor!

That is the motto for ebay. The policy ebay has states the product sold and delivered to the buyer must be as advertised. So if you bid on an item that does not specifically say "New in box" and that it will be shipped in its original packaging, the seller has every right to take it out of the packaging and ship it to you however they want. The seller does take the risk of the item being damaged by shipping in padded envelopes, but at the same time it is you, the buyer, that would have to pay to ship any damaged items back at your own expense. Something you must keep in mind when bidding on ebay. Since we are talking about toys that tend to be $10 or less, most of the time it is not even worth filing an ebay claim (and the seller is usually blissfully aware of this).

It is your responsibility to make sure you bid on an item that will arrive in the condition you want it in (or at least has the highest likelihood to meet your expectations). If the seller didn't meet the ebay listing requirements, then you have the right to be upset, but still are kind of screwed. If the seller met ebay's requirements and not your expectations, then you are SOL. A negative review is about all you can do.

Quote: dinoah2005

The answer is "YES", you should ask. First off it is a toy. The seller does not know what you are using it for except that it is a toy and expects you to play with it or give it to some one who will play with it. When buying a TOY you should ask questions to the seller if you plan on using it for anything other than a TOY. The only exception that I would expect it to be in a box is if it is a Chase Variant that are selling for over $100's of dollars and that is if the seller claims that it is in "Mint" condition.

Chase variants are toys too! I mean, if you want to play the "it's a toy" card, they're all toys.

Additionally, eBay has very specific guidelines for listing items as "new", which I'd almost be willing to bet most of these sellers do (mine did).

*If* you list it as a toy, then...
Quote:

New: A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item (including handmade items). See the seller's listing for full details.

I suppose it could be argued that the packaging isn't part of the item, but that's up for debate.

*if* it's listed as a video game accessory (which it should be), then...
Quote:

New: A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item in its original packaging (where packaging is applicable). Packaging should be the same as what is found in a retail store, unless the item is handmade or was packaged by the manufacturer in non-retail packaging, such as an unprinted box or plastic bag. See the seller's listing for full details.

Quote:

As for your Exclusive collectible from Amazon and TRU, No they are not sold as Exclusive "Collectibles", they are sold as exclusive "TOYS". Which means that they are exclusive to that store and means you can only get the "TOYS" there.

Both the Amazon listing for GFS and the TRU listing for LSE use the word "collectible".

Quote:

It makes me sick that I see people claim that they are buying these to collect and not ask questions, but if they are TRUE collectors they know better and ask questions before purchasing an item if they are truly collecting. I see it as an escape goat to get something at a discount or even for free. Some of these complaints are for figures that are not impossible to find if you take the time and look. Plus you can know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is in "Mint" condition when you find it in the store.

Golden Flameslinger cannot be found in stores.
Dark Spryo cannot be found in stores in the US.
Blue Bash was pre-ordered from TRU when figures were impossible to get.
LSE was bought from the website because I had to work and I didn't want to risk it.
The broken Cynder was purchased because I wanted that specific (broken) one.

I don't disagree that if you're super-worried about the condition that you should ask before hand. And the fact is, I'm not a complete freak when it comes to the condition of my packages.

But I do believe that it is the seller's responsibility to package the shipment in such a way that it protects the merchandise. Shipping a blister packed item in a bubble mailer does NOT do that. If you're a seller who is worried about people trying to use excuses to get discounts, then don't give them excuses. As a seller, it is your responsibility to do everything reasonable to get the item to the buyer in top condition. There is *no* excuse for shipping in a bubble mailer. Period.

Quote: Grishnaar

Just started collecting/playing Skylanders when Target had their sale on the starter pack. Now I'm backtracking and trying to play catch up with the SSA figures and some of the store exclusives. Most of the normal release stuff I open and play with on the portal. However with some of the exclusives I prefer to leave them in the package. In the past week I received 2 items from eBay auctions, one of which was the Amazon gold Flameslinger, and when they showed up in my mailbox I was distraught. They were shipped in envelopes...one of them wasn't even a padded envelope, just a manilla envelope that you'd send a document in. Needless to say the bubble was crushed, cracked and destroyed. The figures survived but I wasn't happy.

Now I realize that to most these are just toys, but there is definitely a collector aspect to this. It's definitely become a pain to have to contact every seller for every item that I might bid on just to ask if they plan on shipping things to me in a box. What are your thoughts?

-Grishnaar

Doesn't EBay have a rule about sending items to buyers if they are not properly taken care of? That's ridiculous especially if you can't receive a refund for it. This is the reason why I only buy from places who properly send things and besides you could find a better price on Amazon.

Quote: UncleBob

But I do believe that it is the seller's responsibility to package the shipment in such a way that it protects the merchandise. Shipping a blister packed item in a bubble mailer does NOT do that. If you're a seller who is worried about people trying to use excuses to get discounts, then don't give them excuses. As a seller, it is your responsibility to do everything reasonable to get the item to the buyer in top condition. There is *no* excuse for shipping in a bubble mailer. Period.

I think that's the bottom line.-if you want to risk saving a few pennies and pissing off customers, expect to get what you get. For me, regardless of whether you are picky or not about the box---it shows simple disrespect for the customer and the product you as the seller are in care of when you ship it haphazardly.

Nicely said and summarizes this all up neatly.

Quote: imanirox890

Quote: Grishnaar

Just started collecting/playing Skylanders when Target had their sale on the starter pack. Now I'm backtracking and trying to play catch up with the SSA figures and some of the store exclusives. Most of the normal release stuff I open and play with on the portal. However with some of the exclusives I prefer to leave them in the package. In the past week I received 2 items from eBay auctions, one of which was the Amazon gold Flameslinger, and when they showed up in my mailbox I was distraught. They were shipped in envelopes...one of them wasn't even a padded envelope, just a manilla envelope that you'd send a document in. Needless to say the bubble was crushed, cracked and destroyed. The figures survived but I wasn't happy.

Now I realize that to most these are just toys, but there is definitely a collector aspect to this. It's definitely become a pain to have to contact every seller for every item that I might bid on just to ask if they plan on shipping things to me in a box. What are your thoughts?

-Grishnaar

Doesn't EBay have a rule about sending items to buyers if they are not properly taken care of? That's ridiculous especially if you can't receive a refund for it. This is the reason why I only buy from places who properly send things and besides you could find a better price on Amazon.

As stated above by GhostRoaster, Amazon sends their toys or as GhostRoaster calls them "Collectables" in a Bubble envelope also, (TRU does the same). The fact is that it is not as easy to contact TRU/Amazon to ask/request to send in a box. However, you do have the option to contact the seller on Ebay with any questions you have (Including shipping methods). Its just plain STUPID (Sorry kids) not to use this feature that ebay provides when buying a TOY when the intention is to save for a collection. We (GhostRoaster and Myself) can disagree til the cows come home but the fact is, if you dont ask...
You can fill in the rest.
Just remember, dont blame ebay sellers if you dont ask, Big corporations (Amazon, TRU) are doing the same thing.

Quote: UncleBob

But I do believe that it is the seller's responsibility to package the shipment in such a way that it protects the merchandise. Shipping a blister packed item in a bubble mailer does NOT do that. If you're a seller who is worried about people trying to use excuses to get discounts, then don't give them excuses. As a seller, it is your responsibility to do everything reasonable to get the item to the buyer in top condition. There is *no* excuse for shipping in a bubble mailer. Period.

This is undeniably true.

However ... as an educational resource for everyone reading this thread, I believe it's crucial we tell people ... although there may be "no excuse" for shipping in a bubble mailer ... that will *not* stop many Ebay and retail store online sellers from doing *exactly* that ... *unless* you specify that you want your item shipped in a box.

Is it semi-inconvenient to have to "do homework" on the sellers that one is considering buying from? Yup. Get over it. Do it.
Is it semi-inconvenient to have to specifically ask a seller to use a box for shipping instead of a bubble mailer? Yup. Get over that, too. Do it.

Quote: dinoah2005

Quote: imanirox890

Quote: Grishnaar

Just started collecting/playing Skylanders when Target had their sale on the starter pack. Now I'm backtracking and trying to play catch up with the SSA figures and some of the store exclusives. Most of the normal release stuff I open and play with on the portal. However with some of the exclusives I prefer to leave them in the package. In the past week I received 2 items from eBay auctions, one of which was the Amazon gold Flameslinger, and when they showed up in my mailbox I was distraught. They were shipped in envelopes...one of them wasn't even a padded envelope, just a manilla envelope that you'd send a document in. Needless to say the bubble was crushed, cracked and destroyed. The figures survived but I wasn't happy.

Now I realize that to most these are just toys, but there is definitely a collector aspect to this. It's definitely become a pain to have to contact every seller for every item that I might bid on just to ask if they plan on shipping things to me in a box. What are your thoughts?

-Grishnaar

Doesn't EBay have a rule about sending items to buyers if they are not properly taken care of? That's ridiculous especially if you can't receive a refund for it. This is the reason why I only buy from places who properly send things and besides you could find a better price on Amazon.

As stated above by GhostRoaster, Amazon sends their toys or as GhostRoaster calls them "Collectables" in a Bubble envelope also, (TRU does the same). The fact is that it is not as easy to contact TRU/Amazon to ask/request to send in a box. However, you do have the option to contact the seller on Ebay with any questions you have (Including shipping methods). Its just plain STUPID (Sorry kids) not to use this feature that ebay provides when buying a TOY when the intention is to save for a collection. We (GhostRoaster and Myself) can disagree til the cows come home but the fact is, if you dont ask...
You can fill in the rest.
Just remember, dont blame ebay sellers if you dont ask, Big corporations (Amazon, TRU) are doing the same thing.

I've never had anything sold from Amazon directly come to me in an envelope. I've got several Amazon branded cardboard boxes laying around my desk for reuse. I also ordered 5 SSA figures from Toys'R'Us last weekend and they arrived in a box as well. I've certainly gotten stuff from other sellers on the Amazon marketplace in envelopes but it isn't the same.

As for the toys vs collectibles argument, that's a very, very gray area. Just because you find it in the toy section doesn't mean its not a collectible. I guess my biggest mistake was forgetting that there is actually a large group of children that play and collect Skylanders whereas most of my experiences in the toy aisles are very different. I collected Star Wars from about 1994 up until about 2008 or so. When I would make my runs on the way home from work every morning you know who I saw in the aisles? Adults, people with disposable incomes who were collectors. Not children. Children can't afford more than a figure or 2 a week if they're lucky. The same goes for Hot Wheels, sure kids like cars but who's in the aisles buying up the Treasure Hunts and new releases a dozen at a time? Where I live its the same four older guys in their 50's or 60's that are there in every store every morning when the doors open, not children.

For me, bottom line, if you make a series of something no matter what it is, someone will collect it. Pokemon cards, baseball cards, action figures, toy cars, vinyl records, anything.

-Grishnaar

Nobody said that there is no collectors out there. As for who you see in the toy isle, have you every thought that the reason you see more adults is because kids take 30 seconds to look at the figures and leave, the dont have the attention span to go through every figure to find the one they are missing or for variants plus they are in school in the morning. Parents do, to see the joy in their kids eyes when they give them something they have been wanting. I know, I have a 7 year old. He looks at the front of the pegs and if its not there he tells me "nope, no new ones" I then go through and on occasions find one we need. Think about this, Skylanders is a Multi-Million dollar business, they did not get there because of collectors. Plus, you said it your self, Kids don't have the money, Parents do. I know alot of parents that buy toys without there kids present, either as a surprise gift of some sort or as an incentive (Some may call it bribbery) to do well in school, do their chores or some other reason. My point is, if you buy online to collect, you should ask questions before expecting the seller to read your mind.

Yeah I've already committed to investigate things further before bidding. I merely took brief exception to Skylanders being unquestionably pigeonholed as toys as if there was no reason for them to be considered collectibles.

-Grishnaar

Quote: Grishnaar

Yeah I've already committed to investigate things further before bidding. I merely took brief exception to Skylanders being unquestionably pigeonholed as toys as if there was no reason for them to be considered collectibles.

-Grishnaar

Grishnaar,

I got your back. Activision IS IN FACT marketing to collectors too--you simply have to make your desires known to the seller. Most have gotten enough inquiries that two things are happening: 1. they immediately reject their stock as being worthy (which saves you time) or 2. they work with you to help you assess if it meets your requirements.

Also, I know of a number of eBay sellers starting to market to the collectors market. Prices are much higher--but you definitely get what you want.