darkSpyro

Is there a reason there isn't a sub-forum for trading (or even selling)? I know we can put it in our signature lines (as I've just update mine), but how is that different from a topic on it?

Good luck getting an answer. I've been asking about that for months.

been wondering the same thing , people that have been a member for alittle while posted often and maybe a rating system could be added , I would rather trade with fans of spyro and skylanders rather than some random ebay member that may not even really know what skylanders is, he just knows there is a high demand. And if a member doesn't hold up to their end give them negative feedback on their board that cant be taken down. I think it should be something you sign up for on top of the forum. Members that are not members of the "Skylanders traders" sub forum can't trade.

I THINK I read once that the website owners or forum runners didn't want to be responsible, and it just made it easier to not have it. Anyone confirm this or direct me to the topic where this was stated?

There are several reasons why trading forums do not exist on this site:

-It attracts sellers, scalpers and other possible undesirable visitors that would potentially distract from the value of the site. This is a fan site where visitors can come and discuss the games and share their passions and offer help and information for others to complete their collections. Simply authorizing a board or the action itself could potentially erase a line that keeps this site from becoming a specialized version of ebay. If this was instituted there would be a lot new users literally overnight selling their wares. If you don't believe me consider the regular threads that pop up from new users selling variants.

-There is little that can be done to enforce trading and selling controls on a site like this. There is a legitimate danger in engaging in trades and buying from anonymous users. I am aware of several horror stories from site members that have sent hundred plus dollar figures off in the mail never to receive any compensation. In my opinion encouraging an activity that places site members at risk for fraud and theft bears some moral weight on the site itself.

-In all actuality the proposal of trading, buying and selling of figures in signatures IS against site rules. There has never been an official site announcement to suggest otherwise. The issue here is that signatures have become seen as acceptable because a lot of users do advertise in them. I have sent multiple personal e-mails to users to alert them that their signatures are in violation of site rules but it seems for every one user that fixes their signature two more adopt the trend under the belief it is acceptable because they have seen others with similar signatures. It is easier to moderate and control threads than signatures so the understanding of site expectations on posts and threads seems clearer.

-A method for more easily monitoring signature usage in relation to site rules is and has been discussed recently.

yeh duh don't send off your entire collection but I don't see the harm trading , euro variants for American ones or new characters that have not made it across the country yet.

Quote: ItsJustMe

There are several reasons why trading forums do not exist on this site:

-It attracts sellers, scalpers and other possible undesirable visitors that would potentially distract from the value of the site. This is a fan site where visitors can come and discuss the games and share their passions and offer help and information for others to complete their collections. Simply authorizing a board or the action itself could potentially erase a line that keeps this site from becoming a specialized version of ebay. If this was instituted there would be a lot new users literally overnight selling their wares. If you don't believe me consider the regular threads that pop up from new users selling variants.

-There is little that can be done to enforce trading and selling controls on a site like this. There is a legitimate danger in engaging in trades and buying from anonymous users. I am aware of several horror stories from site members that have sent hundred plus dollar figures off in the mail never to receive any compensation. In my opinion encouraging an activity that places site members at risk for fraud and theft bears some moral weight on the site itself.

-In all actuality the proposal of trading, buying and selling of figures in signatures IS against site rules. There has never been an official site announcement to suggest otherwise. The issue here is that signatures have become seen as acceptable because a lot of users do advertise in them. I have sent multiple personal e-mails to users to alert them that their signatures are in violation of site rules but it seems for every one user that fixes their signature two more adopt the trend under the belief it is acceptable because they have seen others with similar signatures. It is easier to moderate and control threads than signatures so the understanding of site expectations on posts and threads seems clearer.

-A method for more easily monitoring signature usage in relation to site rules is and has been discussed recently.

Here's what I get from your answers:

Rather than police who you allow to be users to the site, restricting commerce is the easier solution for the admin and staffers. Let's play pretend for a second - say someone joined the site and put a white flocked prism break up for $50. Is that scalping? That's up for discussion. Is anyone forced to buy it? No. If the admin or mods don't like it, then give that user the boot or tell them to amend their listing (or pull it yourself). But don't punish everyone else who is straight up trading a swarm for a crusher. To be honest with you, I'd rather buy the prism break here for $50 than pay much more on ebay.

I haven't seen anyone asking the admin or mods to enforce or take responsibility for a damn thing. All you need to do is have a clear write-up about what will be tolerated. Here is the rule – clearly posted - from the commerce section of one of the Star Wars sites I frequent:

Items currently shipping in retail must be sold for actual costs. Older items should be consistent with fair market value. No auction or retail advertisements allowed.

If I want to make a trade with someone - Matteomax as an example - I should be allowed to. But I shouldn't have to jump through hoops to find someone to trade with. I shouldn't have to do is sent a PM to every single user on the board to say "hey I have a green gil grunt and need a gnarley tree rex - do you have one?". By not having a dedicated section, that's pretty much what I’d have to do to let people know what i have and want for trade.

If someone is dumb enough to send hundreds of dollars off to a complete stranger without seeing any sort of feedback, then they will probably get burned. If they don't want to rely on feedback from past trades at other forums (but we aren't going to see any of that on here, are we?) or on eBay, then they will probably get burned. This is honestly the first "collecting" site I've been to where not only was commerce not promoted, but it was frowned upon...and I've been a member of various Star Wars sites for over 15 years. Not once have I gotten burned because I knew what I was doing. You don't want this place to become some sort of eBay, but what you've pretty much forced member to do is resort to eBay to sell their extras or buy what they don’t have. Let's say that gamemaster needs Granite crusher, but the stores by him are out of stock. He can't post that he needs one, so he has to go to ebay. Let's say I have 3 granite crushers because I figure that someone - anyone -here might need them, so I'm willing to let them go for cost. But I can't tell anyone that, because I'm not allowed to post it. So i put them on ebay with a starting bid of $15 - my cost. So after all is said and done, my item got bid up and ended at $32. I'm glad I made extra money, but gamemaster either paid more than he should have, or just didn’t get it because the price went too high. So explain to me again how this helps members.

Quote: Help Files

Don't advertise.
This includes the buying/selling/trading of Skylanders toys on the forums.

*cough*

big_matt: Those who exist in this life all have ideological views that define them. The issue with those views is that they are developed through complex belief system and personal experience. No amount of simple conversation on a message board or even in face to face conversation is likely to convince someone to shift their ideological views. Doing so just becomes a pointless exercise and it becomes easier just not to talk about these things. Notable ideological views include a person's perspective on the death penalty, politics, or abortion. When it comes to skylanders the concept of open trading and selling and scalping become similarly sensitive issues. If you were to ask 50 site users their opinions on scalping you would receive 45+ very distinctly different view and about 30 of them would be overtly passionate in nature.

I like your image of the system in theory but am personally cynical that it could happen and sustain itself without becoming something different than it is (perhaps greater but likely just an ebay clone). It is a nice thought to think the system would generate a fluid amount of $50 white flocked listings but at this point the free market would quickly up the price. The system of supply and demand would pit users in direct competition with each other over price just like ebay. In my opinion it would likely become possible for items of perceived value to have a higher asking price on a specialty price on a site like this than ebay because the viewers are niche and specifically looking for those items and would theoretically find them easier with less other items to sort through. Your example of selling Granite Crusher on ebay is flawed because you purposely placed it on ebay not as a buy it now price. In a way it is nothing more than the ebay posters "greed" that made the buyer pay $32 than the $15 you claim you would have sold it at. If you think you can get more money from selling an item there is nothing wrong with that but you have to acknowledge the same principle would happen here. In addition "professional skylander sellers" would be quickly attracted here because there are no additional use charges (like ebay) and the cliental has a defined interest and demand for the product. This place could be a seller's dream. In my head I see the mechanics quickly shifting on those that would like to use this for noble intent.

GM himself has been very vocal about having a small additional fee for the items he sells. Again this is fine and makes sense, as the man spends money on gas and their is value to his personal time when hunting figures. The issue becomes when someone else decides their time or gas is worth an additional $2 to $3. The dynamics of control on this could be very spotty (they would be similar to the already discussed rules on advertising in signatures where it is technically not okay but many do anyway). Another issue is how do you keep someone who bought figures at a TRU buy one get the second 40% off honest while posting the actual cost of their figure. The answer is you don't.

The names you chose to use in your post to sell the methodology of trading seemed carefully picked and viewed as the upper tier of those you can trust on this site (the top 3-5% of users that openly condone trading). An issue occurs when you expand this there are many blue and older sparx I would not trust and maybe a fewer newer users I would. I can tell by you selection of names we have similar judgment skills in choosing who to make deals with. This may help you specifically from getting burned but I would be concerned about the casual user without the poster character knowledge we possess and their own good judgment skills. There seems to be a cavalier "oh well I'm fine, who cares about anyone else aura" to your approach on the subject.

As it stands this is a board full of valuable knowledge on collecting, locating and identifying skylanders. I cannot see how adding a trading ad buying section would add to that. Instead, I see users already hesitant to share information that they have stop and hoard information for themselves. Imagine if UncleBob just showed up on the board with 50 Molten HotDogs to trade and had not given out any prior information to their existence. I don't think he would have, but he could have. In more of a certainty the posts that warn when rare characters are available on TRU.com, amazon and gamestop.com would completely disappear. This is a dynamic of the free market system and would give an increased value to specific skylanders for users that use this site. Here is where many will post that users will still be good to each other. I will preemptively remind everyone that uses this argument that the above poster in their theoretical argument purposely did not put a buy it now price of $15 on their figure and then blamed it on free market dynamics. This will happen here.

As I opened this post with my statements reflect my own ideological beliefs and I don't feel anything I say will convince anyone not on the fence about the subject. Many use darkspyro to communicate and trade privately through PM and this will continue no matter what anyone views of this ideology. Making trading more public on the forums would likely compromise what this site is in my opinion and to other users. There are other methods in existence of doing what is proposed in this conversation like ebay. The pro-arguments that will highlight the addition of this behavior will focus on the positives and not negatives of the concept. The funny thing is people will preach this because they don't like ebay but will not accept that allowing this will just bring the negatives one fears from ebay and its similar existing entities.

Quote: Sivadreamer

Is there a reason there isn't a sub-forum for trading (or even selling)? I know we can put it in our signature lines (as I've just update mine), but how is that different from a topic on it?

I take it you didn't read, or forgot, the Don't advertise Forum Rule?

just plain and simple its a fan site not an online market place

Question that I have on this.... It was stated earlier that advertising in Sigs for trades was/is being discussed. I get not wanting the whole trading section thing. However, maybe as a "I'll meet you in the middle." We make/keep the signature thing okay? I know it is not the answer everyone on either side is looking for. However, I think it is a fair compromise.

Wait, what? Are we actually allowed to put up for trades in our signatures?
Last time I did that, it was considered against the rules... Grumble...

From the other posts in this topic, I don't think it is allowed/okay or frowned upon either. My feeling is that it is a way to meet in the middle. It also gives people a reason to come to the site and post. The more you post the more your sig pops up.

Yeah, but the site shouldn't encourage posting by quantity. Quality is more important.

With that said, I'd love to see a b/s/t forum. Face it, it happens on this site, has been encouraged (Sidekicks thread) by this site, is somewhat allowed on this site (trading card thread) etc., etc.

If the forum were limited by rank, it would help cut some of the dump and run posters out.

As for forum liability - there is none. Even more so, if you put a few simple disclaimers. I've never heard of anyone successfully suing a forum for a deal gone wrong. Ever.

Finally, this thread is probably a good reason as to why we don't have a b/s/t forum. This thread should have gone in the "Site Help and Suggestions" subforum. Instead, it was posted on the wrong forum, showing how hard it is to follow the rules.

Quote: GamingMaster_76

Wait, what? Are we actually allowed to put up for trades in our signatures?
Last time I did that, it was considered against the rules... Grumble...

The official site stance is that advertising in signatures including buying/trading and selling is violation of site policy.

Quote: UncleBob

Finally, this thread is probably a good reason as to why we don't have a b/s/t forum. This thread should have gone in the "Site Help and Suggestions" subforum. Instead, it was posted on the wrong forum, showing how hard it is to follow the rules.

This definitely is in the wrong section. Honestly the only reason why I did not move it is because I thought the people this conversation related to were more likely to see it here.

I'm going to agree on the side of ItsJustMe. This site is better off not having a buy/trade/sell forum. I will admit to PMing others on here and offering to help them get figures that are readily available in my area that they are having a hard time finding but none the less I wouldn't want to actually see a forum for it.

P.S. if anybody is looking for a Glitter Hothead pm me, I got one to sell....... only kidding!!! I haven't ever seen on in the wild and would probably leave it on the shelf if I did. Point is getting involved with buying, selling, or trading on this site is far too risky for many reasons. First thing that comes to my mind are the number of younger kids on here who could be scammed by an adult scalper all too easily and the parents of those said kids who then have to deal with the fallout at home on a personal level.

Keep DarkSpyro the way it is, why mess with a good thing?

Quote: ItsJustMe

Quote: GamingMaster_76

Wait, what? Are we actually allowed to put up for trades in our signatures?
Last time I did that, it was considered against the rules... Grumble...

The official site stance is that advertising in signatures including buying/trading and selling is violation of site policy.

I'm not saying that anyone's doing a bad job- but why are there so many in signatures that are still there then?

Quote: UncleBob

Yeah, but the site shouldn't encourage posting by quantity. Quality is more important.

With that said, I'd love to see a b/s/t forum. Face it, it happens on this site, has been encouraged (Sidekicks thread) by this site, is somewhat allowed on this site (trading card thread) etc., etc.

If the forum were limited by rank, it would help cut some of the dump and run posters out.

As for forum liability - there is none. Even more so, if you put a few simple disclaimers. I've never heard of anyone successfully suing a forum for a deal gone wrong. Ever.

Finally, this thread is probably a good reason as to why we don't have a b/s/t forum. This thread should have gone in the "Site Help and Suggestions" subforum. Instead, it was posted on the wrong forum, showing how hard it is to follow the rules.

I'm glad to see that someone has been vocal about agreeing with me.

I have so many rebuttals to itsjustme's response, but am typing this on an iPhone and there will be so many spelling errors, it's not even funny. So I'm waiting until I can get to a pc.

Now, I can see both points of views on this. I just want to bring this to light that even though we don't have a trading forum on here we still get scalpers on here... [url]//forum.darkspyro.net/spy...php?topic=75062">//forum.darkspyro.net/spyro/vi...topic=75062

Still, having a trade/sell/buy forum would break one of the forum rules, and would bring in unwanted attention.

Quote: ItsJustMe

As it stands this is a board full of valuable knowledge on collecting, locating and identifying skylanders. I cannot see how adding a trading ad buying section would add to that. Instead, I see users already hesitant to share information that they have stop and hoard information for themselves. Imagine if UncleBob just showed up on the board with 50 Molten HotDogs to trade and had not given out any prior information to their existence. I don't think he would have, but he could have. In more of a certainty the posts that warn when rare characters are available on TRU.com, amazon and gamestop.com would completely disappear. This is a dynamic of the free market system and would give an increased value to specific skylanders for users that use this site. Here is where many will post that users will still be good to each other. I will preemptively remind everyone that uses this argument that the above poster in their theoretical argument purposely did not put a buy it now price of $15 on their figure and then blamed it on free market dynamics. This will happen here.

I do have to say, I completely disagree with this.

For a practical example of what happens, check out CAG. There's a forum for B/S/T and a forum for plugging one's own eBay auctions. Yet, all the great deals get posted and everyone gets a chance to take advantage of them.

Truth be told, I could have done what you suggested anyway. A month ago, if I put up a post with a picture of 48-in hand Molten Hot Dogs and said "Wow, I don't know what I'm going to do with all of these.", my PM box would have been blown up with offers. Likewise, when I post something like "What's the going rate for a GitD Fright Rider", I received a couple of PMs with offers to hook me up (and took the best offer from a very awesome poster here).

Truthfully, I would love to see a B/S/T thread and I think the general dynamics of the forum would address most issues. For those trying to sell figures at ridiculous eBay prices, they're going to find that most users here won't go for that. For those trying to scam folks here, they'll find that most users here are going to ask for references for trading (eBay, other forums, etc.)

But, for those who are hard-core Skylanders fans who wish to help out other hard-core Skylanders fans, I think a Skylanders-focused site would be the way to go.

The only thing is, a B/S/T forum would need strict rules and stricter moderation - something that I get the impression that Dark doesn't want the responsibility of (not a negative comment against Dark - just a general observation - if Dark came to me and said "Okay, I'll create a B/S/T forum, but you're in charge of making sure it stays sane.", I'd turn him down because I don't have the personal time to devote to it.). Unless he has a change of heart and wants to undertake that responsibility (or finds someone that he trusts who's willing to do it), then a B/S/T forum here would end in flames.

I can also see both points of views on this one. However, I think us being able to post something in out signatures, at our own risk, is a good compromise. Now, is it perfect? No, not at all. However, I think to make most people somewhat happy it shouldn't be frowned upon.

Most of us, (either way you are going to get a few bad apples on here) are looking to help other people out and will do what we can for others.

Quote: Aura24

Still, having a trade/sell/buy forum would break one of the forum rules[...]

Umm... I think any logical individual would realize that if there was an official B/S/T forum on here, the rules would be modified to reflect that.

Dark is at liberty to change the rules at his whim. He could introduce a B/S/T forum today, close it tomorrow, then bring it back next Wednesday and say that you can only use it to post links to your eBay auctions. That's his right.

Quote: big_matt

Quote: ItsJustMe

There are several reasons why trading forums do not exist on this site:

-It attracts sellers, scalpers and other possible undesirable visitors that would potentially distract from the value of the site. This is a fan site where visitors can come and discuss the games and share their passions and offer help and information for others to complete their collections. Simply authorizing a board or the action itself could potentially erase a line that keeps this site from becoming a specialized version of ebay. If this was instituted there would be a lot new users literally overnight selling their wares. If you don't believe me consider the regular threads that pop up from new users selling variants.

-There is little that can be done to enforce trading and selling controls on a site like this. There is a legitimate danger in engaging in trades and buying from anonymous users. I am aware of several horror stories from site members that have sent hundred plus dollar figures off in the mail never to receive any compensation. In my opinion encouraging an activity that places site members at risk for fraud and theft bears some moral weight on the site itself.

-In all actuality the proposal of trading, buying and selling of figures in signatures IS against site rules. There has never been an official site announcement to suggest otherwise. The issue here is that signatures have become seen as acceptable because a lot of users do advertise in them. I have sent multiple personal e-mails to users to alert them that their signatures are in violation of site rules but it seems for every one user that fixes their signature two more adopt the trend under the belief it is acceptable because they have seen others with similar signatures. It is easier to moderate and control threads than signatures so the understanding of site expectations on posts and threads seems clearer.

-A method for more easily monitoring signature usage in relation to site rules is and has been discussed recently.

Here's what I get from your answers:

Rather than police who you allow to be users to the site, restricting commerce is the easier solution for the admin and staffers. Let's play pretend for a second - say someone joined the site and put a white flocked prism break up for $50. Is that scalping? That's up for discussion. Is anyone forced to buy it? No. If the admin or mods don't like it, then give that user the boot or tell them to amend their listing (or pull it yourself). But don't punish everyone else who is straight up trading a swarm for a crusher. To be honest with you, I'd rather buy the prism break here for $50 than pay much more on ebay.

I haven't seen anyone asking the admin or mods to enforce or take responsibility for a damn thing. All you need to do is have a clear write-up about what will be tolerated. Here is the rule – clearly posted - from the commerce section of one of the Star Wars sites I frequent:

Items currently shipping in retail must be sold for actual costs. Older items should be consistent with fair market value. No auction or retail advertisements allowed.

If I want to make a trade with someone - Matteomax as an example - I should be allowed to. But I shouldn't have to jump through hoops to find someone to trade with. I shouldn't have to do is sent a PM to every single user on the board to say "hey I have a green gil grunt and need a gnarley tree rex - do you have one?". By not having a dedicated section, that's pretty much what I’d have to do to let people know what i have and want for trade.

'If someone is dumb enough to send hundreds of dollars off to a complete stranger without seeing any sort of feedback, then they will probably get burned. If they don't want to rely on feedback from past trades at other forums (but we aren't going to see any of that on here, are we?) or on eBay, then they will probably get burned. This is honestly the first "collecting" site I've been to where not only was commerce not promoted, but it was frowned upon...and I've been a member of various Star Wars sites for over 15 years. Not once have I gotten burned because I knew what I was doing. You don't want this place to become some sort of eBay, but what you've pretty much forced member to do is resort to eBay to sell their extras or buy what they don’t have. Let's say that gamemaster needs Granite crusher, but the stores by him are out of stock. He can't post that he needs one, so he has to go to ebay. Let's say I have 3 granite crushers because I figure that someone - anyone -here might need them, so I'm willing to let them go for cost. But I can't tell anyone that, because I'm not allowed to post it. So i put them on ebay with a starting bid of $15 - my cost. So after all is said and done, my item got bid up and ended at $32. I'm glad I made extra money, but gamemaster either paid more than he should have, or just didn’t get it because the price went too high. So explain to me again how this helps members'.

your last argument is great, most of us on here are hard working dads/moms/uncles/young people who just love to play and collect skylanders y cant we help each other out. Ive got a trade going on right now with a very nice member we have had many conversations and I really don't think i'm gonna get burned but I may. I'm putting my faith in another human, people use to do that a lot. just because a small group of people , scalpers, try to take advantage of people it has ruined it for all. it would be great if we had a place to trade with others who we know are adding a figure to their collection or opening it to play with it, and not charge each other a arm and a leg.

It's simple, really. Allow the people who wish to b/s/t to do it in a dedicated forum. Allow the people who do not wish to do it to avoid said forum. I, for one, would definitely participate. I've already b/s/ted on here anyhow. I was all through PMs and I've only been burned once. What happened? Nothing. I just remember that persons name and I won't deal with them again. I put on my biggie girl panties and realized that hey, this is real life, it can happen. However, with the number of people I've been able to help out and who have helped me out, I'd say the benefits far outweigh the risks.

Quote: Kesrael

It's simple, really. Allow the people who wish to b/s/t to do it in a dedicated forum. Allow the people who do not wish to do it to avoid said forum. I, for one, would definitely participate. I've already b/s/ted on here anyhow. I was all through PMs and I've only been burned once. What happened? Nothing. I just remember that persons name and I won't deal with them again. I put on my biggie girl panties and realized that hey, this is real life, it can happen. However, with the number of people I've been able to help out and who have helped me out, I'd say the benefits far outweigh the risks.

and why couldn't there be a list where you could write what happened and how the person wronged you to let others know , I say we get a petition started to take to dark,..................imaging bash in biggie girl panties lol j/k

^Lol!

Anyways.... I feel that it is something that is happening here anyways. Why not give it a test run. As it has been stated before if someone burns you that way we can have a way to report it to others. Instead of us having to resolve to PMs and hopefully it getting around that someone has been burned by another poster on here.

It seems that there are arguments FOR and AGAINST this B/S/T forum. I think it should be offered to the willing be don't lose the integrity and purpose of this site/forum and the members of it.

Has someone contacted dark52 about this topic?

I have sent a PM!

Quote: ItsJustMe

big_matt: Those who exist in this life all have ideological views that define them. The issue with those views is that they are developed through complex belief system and personal experience. No amount of simple conversation on a message board or even in face to face conversation is likely to convince someone to shift their ideological views. Doing so just becomes a pointless exercise and it becomes easier just not to talk about these things. Notable ideological views include a person's perspective on the death penalty, politics, or abortion. When it comes to skylanders the concept of open trading and selling and scalping become similarly sensitive issues. If you were to ask 50 site users their opinions on scalping you would receive 45+ very distinctly different view and about 30 of them would be overtly passionate in nature.

I like your image of the system in theory but am personally cynical that it could happen and sustain itself without becoming something different than it is (perhaps greater but likely just an ebay clone). It is a nice thought to think the system would generate a fluid amount of $50 white flocked listings but at this point the free market would quickly up the price. The system of supply and demand would pit users in direct competition with each other over price just like ebay. In my opinion it would likely become possible for items of perceived value to have a higher asking price on a specialty price on a site like this than ebay because the viewers are niche and specifically looking for those items and would theoretically find them easier with less other items to sort through. Your example of selling Granite Crusher on ebay is flawed because you purposely placed it on ebay not as a buy it now price. In a way it is nothing more than the ebay posters "greed" that made the buyer pay $32 than the $15 you claim you would have sold it at. If you think you can get more money from selling an item there is nothing wrong with that but you have to acknowledge the same principle would happen here. In addition "professional skylander sellers" would be quickly attracted here because there are no additional use charges (like ebay) and the cliental has a defined interest and demand for the product. This place could be a seller's dream. In my head I see the mechanics quickly shifting on those that would like to use this for noble intent.

GM himself has been very vocal about having a small additional fee for the items he sells. Again this is fine and makes sense, as the man spends money on gas and their is value to his personal time when hunting figures. The issue becomes when someone else decides their time or gas is worth an additional $2 to $3. The dynamics of control on this could be very spotty (they would be similar to the already discussed rules on advertising in signatures where it is technically not okay but many do anyway). Another issue is how do you keep someone who bought figures at a TRU buy one get the second 40% off honest while posting the actual cost of their figure. The answer is you don't.

The names you chose to use in your post to sell the methodology of trading seemed carefully picked and viewed as the upper tier of those you can trust on this site (the top 3-5% of users that openly condone trading). An issue occurs when you expand this there are many blue and older sparx I would not trust and maybe a fewer newer users I would. I can tell by you selection of names we have similar judgment skills in choosing who to make deals with. This may help you specifically from getting burned but I would be concerned about the casual user without the poster character knowledge we possess and their own good judgment skills. There seems to be a cavalier "oh well I'm fine, who cares about anyone else aura" to your approach on the subject.

As it stands this is a board full of valuable knowledge on collecting, locating and identifying skylanders. I cannot see how adding a trading ad buying section would add to that. Instead, I see users already hesitant to share information that they have stop and hoard information for themselves. Imagine if UncleBob just showed up on the board with 50 Molten HotDogs to trade and had not given out any prior information to their existence. I don't think he would have, but he could have. In more of a certainty the posts that warn when rare characters are available on TRU.com, amazon and gamestop.com would completely disappear. This is a dynamic of the free market system and would give an increased value to specific skylanders for users that use this site. Here is where many will post that users will still be good to each other. I will preemptively remind everyone that uses this argument that the above poster in their theoretical argument purposely did not put a buy it now price of $15 on their figure and then blamed it on free market dynamics. This will happen here.

As I opened this post with my statements reflect my own ideological beliefs and I don't feel anything I say will convince anyone not on the fence about the subject. Many use darkspyro to communicate and trade privately through PM and this will continue no matter what anyone views of this ideology. Making trading more public on the forums would likely compromise what this site is in my opinion and to other users. There are other methods in existence of doing what is proposed in this conversation like ebay. The pro-arguments that will highlight the addition of this behavior will focus on the positives and not negatives of the concept. The funny thing is people will preach this because they don't like ebay but will not accept that allowing this will just bring the negatives one fears from ebay and its similar existing entities.

Actually, when I buy figures for others, I take a loss of about 24-82 cents on the figure, and anywhere from 25 cents to 1 dollar on shipping. It's because I don't care about the change value of the tax on figures.

I think there should be a trade and sell form. We see now that loser scalpers are leeching info regardless, only to brag about it after someone posts information. Having these two types of forums won't make this site any different than it is now, which is riddled with scalpers who lurk on the forums, without posting, but leeching info. Some have the gall to sign up and brag though, after they get the info they seek.

Because it's been around so long and no one has enforced it.

I get not wanting a forum dedicated to trading.... however, for those of us who want to be able to help others and get things that we want/need., why can't the signatures be available for what we want/need.

ItsJustMe: You're right, you don't know if or when you're going to see a flocked prism break here for $50, and with the way things are now, you'll never know. As for my integrity of not making my BIN price $15, I beleive that you're missing the main point - why exactly it is that I had to go to eBay in the first place. Once I go to eBay, I'm not only helping those here. I'm selling to the whole world, so why should you really care if I collect more than retail from someone who may not be on the DS forums? If you allowed commerce, I'd only be able to help forum members. Plus, look at it this way, i may have been able to trade my Granite Crusher for a Ninjini. Since you didn't allow me to, that extra $17 I made will be put toward the purchase of her from eBay (probably from a seller who also couldn't trade here - thanks for helping out the members). As far as who I chose to mention in my examples, they are people who I've had conversations with and have discussed trades with in the past. Why shouldn't I be eager to have dealings with them again? And as far as sending money only to not get your product, well, that's why you don't put cash in an envelope and send it to a stranger. That's why PayPal was created. As far as a markup goes, PayPal charges a fee - the seller should be able to recover it. Gas and time do cost money - The seller should be able to recover their estimated value. The price I pay in NYC is more than the price that the Walmart near the cornfield in Nebraska charges. So yes, the Crusher I sell may be $18+shipping. But as long as it's not $30, I really don't see a problem. Now if I was trading my $18 Crusher for someone else's $11-on sale Swarm, then I shouldn't expect trade + $7. A giant for a giant is a fair trade enough.

To the member who wrote something to the extent of "But if commerce were allowed, wouldn't that violate the rules?" Hands down, that is the dumbest thing I've ever read. Thanks to UncleBob for providing a logical answer in a nice way. I would have probably been a bit more harsh. And has far as you modding the commerce section, UncleBob, there are "Hunters" here. I'm not sure exactly it is that they do now except for yelling at people for trying to work out deals, so here they could do it in a dedicated section.

To the user who asked if anyone contacted Dark52 directly about this, I beleive that I stated I did in my original post. I just checked my email outbox, and I sent an email on 11/18/12, which is still unanswered. I found the address at the bottom of the site. If it's the wrong address, then it needs to be changed. If there's no intention of answering emails sent to that address, then it should be removed. Here's what I wrote:

I am a fairly new member over at DarkSpyro.net, and was just wondering why the aversion to any kind of buying/selling/trading at the forums? I have been a member of many collecting sites - mostly Star Wars - including being a Mod/Staff at some sites, and the sales/trading sections have always been popular and successful. I do understand the downside, when deals go bad, but it is really up to the members to police themselves and know who to trust based on tenure at the site, and feedback on other sites and maybe ebay as a gauge of "do i want to do business with that person". When things go bad you may be called upon to ban a member, but that should be all that falls on you. Again, I'm not telling you how to run your site, I'd just like a bit of insight as to why there is not a trading section, considering how popular and hard to find the toys can be.

Really, I'm still of the opinion that "Management" would rather allow anyone, including scalpers, to be members here. But then they want to censor what they can post. I'm all for censoring posting, if it comes to attacking another member, inappropriate or obscene comments, politics (not that I personally have a problem, but we know how these arguements can get), but not for something like "who wants to buy my Hothead for $15?" The reality is that the quality of the members needs to be policed more than the content of the posts. Earlier today, in the "MHD is available on walmart.com" thread, someone posted that they ordered 36. Joking or not, that is the caliber of people that you've attracted here. On many of the sites I've been a member of, that user would have already have had his account shut down. Or how about the new "I found a gold SSA drill sergeant today" thread? Other users pointed out that it is fake, so it's just a forum member looking for attention. But then the original poster said "my school buddy hacked my account, posted this, and sent out some nasty PMs to people". So you'd rather have users of this quality - mostly kids, which I think is your biggest problem - running rampant, as long as they don't try to sell/buy/or trade. And as much as anyone seems to abhor eBay, by just making this an information site, and allowing everyone to be a member, all of the scalpers use this site to find out what the hot toys are and where to find them.

so i was misinformed then, as i was told when i first got here on this site and asked regarding this matter and was told that we can put the stuff we need in our signature. btw ever since the site was created have they even tried this buy/sell/trade sub forum????

I am not sure Flejia.... Like I have stated before I get both sides of this argument. However, I don't see the harm in letting us post stuff we need in our sigs. I have gotten a few things that I need from having stuff in sigs. If dark doesn't want to take responsibility for trades that can go wrong I understand that. I don't think any of us expect him to do that. It should be at your own risk, even with the stuff in our sigs.


I feel that I can judge people pretty well even if it is just from sending messages back and forth. As it was stated earlier, if I get burned on something it would not be anyones fault but mine and more the person who decided to be that way. Karma has a way of being a you know what. I guess I don't understand why when it seems a majority of us are okay with having a trading forum, we let the chance of someone getting greedy/screwed over ruin it for everyone. I take a chance driving a car to work or walking outside or eating a sandwich that might make me sick or whatever. However, we still do it. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

It seems that we are letting the chance of someone getting burned stopping us from being able to help other people. As far as the argument that it would attract people that are just here to make a buck, we clearly already have those type of people here. They may not post however, they do lurk and will use Darkspyro for nefarious purposes. Their is no way to stop these people. Also, I know people tend to make a big deal out of gems for no reason. This might be a case where using the gem system would work. I know that some people that have high gems are not people I get along with or would really care to do business with. However, someone with 100 gems would probably have a harder time getting someone to trade a 2011 E3 Trigger Happy for another rare item.

I respect dark's decision/opinion on this I just however have to disagree on some of the arguments that are brought up on this.

There are some valid points here I especially agree with Uncle Bob. The sad thing is that as the site exists and currently operates authorizing the open act of trading/selling or buying is simply not something that seems wise. The site was created as a fansite for Spyro. I can understand the demand to change the structure to a collectors site to placate the changes skylanders has made to the franchise.

The simple truth is what is being asked for here is not what this site is and is never what it was intended to become. This is a fansite and not a collectors site. The controls that would need to be added to make the practice of selling/buying and trading items safe for users would involve a lot more regulation than exists or was ever intended to exist. What is being sought here would require the site becoming something that at this point in time it is not ready to become.


Quote: FLEIJA

so i was misinformed then, as i was told when i first got here on this site and asked regarding this matter and was told that we can put the stuff we need in our signature. btw ever since the site was created have they even tried this buy/sell/trade sub forum????

You were misinformed. I and several of the other hunters have been sending out requests to change signatures over the last several weeks. Sadly there are still a large amount of users that have signatures in violation and other users have begun advertising as well. It's simply a case of users just following the examples of other users.

I am at this point asking all users that are viewing this thread to please edit your signatures so they do not include any offers to buy/sell or trade items

I wish Hunters could edit signatures.

Funny how everyone ignores my post when it says what you need to know.

Okay time for the newb view on all of this. I started collecting figures about 10 months ago, when my son turned six. The concept was cool and i love to collect things in the first place, even wrecklessly at times, and have beem burned and also had great experiences along the way.

I was refered to this site by a TRU employee and found that there was a great well spring of information here and a greater wellspring of overzealose rumor milling. It took me some time to learn who i could trust in posts and who was usually blowing smoke up our collective a**es. But I did not even have to be a member to view

I can see both sides of this argument and i think just being an fan and info site, taking the word of others and encouraging friendly debate, shows what may be expected in a trading venue as well. People will continue to violate any restrictions placed on B/S/T until there is any significant repercussion for doing so. It is one of the first things i noticed even before i joined the forums. I found this to be a level of trust and camaraderie among fans and collectors and that lead to my decision to join the forums. I appreciated the knowledge I gained and wished to help others if I could.

It appears many members have made good in roads valuable connections through PM communications and the regular users know who can and can not be trusted, and are quick to point out when things are snowballing out of control on speculation and negative postings. This community action leads me to believe that those same said people would be just as good at self policing bogus traders and scalpers in a B/S/T forum. GM, Mateomax, Unclebob just to name a few jumped quickly to my attention as trustworthy people and I would contact them before making any deals just to see if they would approve of any potential transaction I might make (even though I have never spoken to any of them) because their opinions would be valued, and they prove themselves trustworthy, reliable and accurate in thier posts.

I also see the value of a fan site and the likely hood of destroying that if an open market were to be opened, let alone encouraged on this site. AS I stated earlier I used to peruse this site frequently just to glean info to ensure the continued growth and completion of my sons and my collection to avoid getting scalped again as I did for Boomer, Wham Shell, and Hot Head, Because of the open nature of the site (which is the original appeal of it to most) it leaves open an element of danger to the novice user that, In my opinion, while not liable for it, would make Dark and the Hunters trepedacious about the integrity of the site and its original mission, and apprehensive about the deals going down and the young users being exploited. If it went wrong, the reputation of this page we all use and enjoy could be indelibly tarnished, and destroy the work dark and many others have put in.

I believe this originally began as a fan site for spyro the dragon, and when skylanders came out encompassing our plucky beloved hero into a new realm of collectible toys and gaming it was natural to acknowledge and embrace that evolution. However this is still a fan site, Dark being the foremost fan of us all, and why sully the joy he has in sharing that passion with the global community of spyro fans. Perhaps it is time to strike on your own and between the most passionate pro traders in the forum create a collectors site specifically for skylanders? It seems there would be a good starting base to launch from, and most of them would be reliable and trustworthy. Would it then not also be possible to create a partnership between that site and this one directing B/S/T traffic there and linking credible information back to this one?

Jsut my thought on the issue. I am officially Switzerland on this battle, and again am still quite the newb to this whole ball of wax. May the hunt go well for us all during the coming releases.

My 2 cents... I don't think DS members would sell extra chase variants they found for $50 on here when they could get $150 on Ebay. Seems like a lot of members buy/sell there already. And if there was an auction I think the prices would be as high (if not higher) as Ebay since the "super-fans" seem to be here. I wonder what percentage of the bought chase variants on Ebay is from DS members? It's probably this group that gets the prices so high, anyway.

I would prefer to not have selling here, but it is dark52's site to do what he/she wants with it. It's simply too easy to start another group somewhere else to trade/sell. Just invite who you want from here to join if you want.

Quote: bluerosedruid

Perhaps it is time to strike on your own and between the most passionate pro traders in the forum create a collectors site specifically for skylanders?

Don't worry, there will be one soon. Real world obligations have kept pushing it back, but after these most recent posts, my buddy and I are dedicating as much time as we can to getting the site up. Stay tuned.....

As much as I would like a bst section, I won't whine too much about it. But i was shocked to see there was not one when I first joined on here after lurking for a while. I frequent car forums the most and every single one of those has a trading section. For cars and parts. Like 4k dollar parts.

But its always about minimizing the risk of being ripped off so I see where that's coming from. But i wish there was something besides ebay where we could trade and haggle etc. Whateve, I still really like these forums