darkSpyro

Let me start off by stating that I like this game. I like it a lot. I know it's a game designed for kids, but I really like playing it with my son, and the completionist in me enjoyed finishing every heroic challenge for all 37 figures in SSA. But over time, the people in control of the Skylanders machine have annoyed me.

1. The way they strung out the release of the final figures for SSA. This was initially explained away by assumptions that the popularity of the game took them off guard, and they had to play catch-up with their manufacturing. But releasing a game in October 2011 with the final figure released the following summer? That's ridiculous. And considering they are doing the same thing again in Giants just shows that this is by design.

2. The fact that Series 1 figures do not unlock heroic challenges in Giants. This is when it started to get really annoying for me. Not only do I spend hundreds of dollars buying all of the figures for SSA, but now you are telling me that I need to buy them AGAIN to fully upgrade my new figures? Again, this was a conscious decision made by TPTB (the-powers-that-be) in order to sell the Series 2 re-poses.

3. The fact that Series 2 figures get benefits that the newlanders do not. The ability to switch out upgrade paths is very cool. I wish they would have thought of it for the S1 figures. But apparently they weren't able to retroactively allow that capability. But why don't the Giants and the other new figs have this option? I'll tell you why. They intend to re-release the same figures in another game, but the Series 3 (for lack of a better term) figures will have this path-switching ability. Bank on it.

The bottom line is this: even though I am financially able to spend hundreds of dollars on these figures each year, I have no intention of doing so. I thought the initial cash outlay with SSA would be the biggest expense for this game, and then it would get less and less with each new release. But WOW was I wrong. No other game we play requires additional purchases to this extent (yes, I said "requires"). A big part of the game for us is getting the figures fully upgraded (through the heroic challenges). The game requires the purchase of every figure in order to accomplish this. Not once, but now twice. Will they require a third purchase down the line? I wouldn't put it past them.

My son has already lost some interest in the game, and if he isn't excited about this year's release, we won't continue with this franchise. They have done a lot of harm to what could have been a really, really cool game.

Quote: Himewad

... My son has already lost some interest in the game, and if he isn't excited about this year's release, we won't continue with this franchise. They have done a lot of harm to what could have been a really, really cool game.

^ basically this for both of my sons.

unfortunately the main disappointment with both games is the lack of replay value. once the game was beaten and the characters upgraded they hardly played again as there is nothing new to do.

I am exactly with you on this Himewad, The sad thing is acti/blizz would only have to make very minimal changes to keep many players like us, but like with wow we know they wont as long as they still make $ they will continue. They wont change anything just like with guitar hero if sales drop to much they will just abandon the idea assuming there is no longer a market for it rather then change it the way they should, oh well.

I know it's hard to believe, but I actually agree 100% with every single point you made. It IS absolutely atrocious. My favourite point of yours is the path switching. Like you, I can understand not being able to do it retroactively to SSA figures. Fine. But leaving it out of Giants and newlanders? That's blatant evidence that this is just a gimmick to sucker people into buying the re-poses. And I'm sorry, path switching & Wow Pow aren't enough to get me to ignore that I already have a character.

And between me and my nephews, we have all SSA characters except 3, and 2 of them weren't rereleased! Thanks a buttload! The only real use of S2 seems to be to give us another chance to get the whole army, but if we happen to be missing any of the 8 dropped ones we're out of luck! Thanks!

And so far I haven't even been interested in Swap Force enough to read anything about it, so far I've seen a couple of pictures, that's it. I have heard enough that there seems to be plans to release Series 2 versions of I think all 8 forgotten Skylanders, as well as most if not all of the new characters.

eh, im enjoying it, i dont buy all the figures..so perhaps im not as burnt out as some, and i enjoy the replayabillity built into giants over SSA.

When you stop enjoying it, its certainly the time to move on with things.

I get the business model with the figures and the desire to want to push the newer ones. I'm an adult and I grasp how business works in these kinds of areas. Some people like it, some don't. Not being able to play the heroic challenges with the S1s was a bit annoying but it wasnt enough to totally kill my interest in things. Giants had enough of other things to keep my interest and I have gotten all the reposes so far, so the lack of challenges hasnt really been a issue.

I agree... It's a bit annoying that since I can't bring Giants and newlanders into SSA that they're limited to what I have in Giants... All told, I have 18 Challenges in Giants, and I've just had to accept that this is the limit for Giants and newlanders, that's all (on my system anyway). It would be nice to bring them further, but at least most of mine are Giants and already pretty effective fighters, I'm not really missing the other challenges.

In the end it DOES mean I can "complete" characters quicker.

Quote: GothamLord

When you stop enjoying it, its certainly the time to move on with things.

I get the business model with the figures and the desire to want to push the newer ones. I'm an adult and I grasp how business works in these kinds of areas. Some people like it, some don't. Not being able to play the heroic challenges with the S1s was a bit annoying but it wasnt enough to totally kill my interest in things. Giants had enough of other things to keep my interest and I have gotten all the reposes so far, so the lack of challenges hasnt really been a issue.

Please, enlighten me with your knowledge of "how business works in these kinds of areas." I'm also an adult. I get that the main goal of a business is to make a profit. But to take a two ton crap on your existing customers is bad business.

Quote: Himewad

Quote: GothamLord

When you stop enjoying it, its certainly the time to move on with things.

I get the business model with the figures and the desire to want to push the newer ones. I'm an adult and I grasp how business works in these kinds of areas. Some people like it, some don't. Not being able to play the heroic challenges with the S1s was a bit annoying but it wasnt enough to totally kill my interest in things. Giants had enough of other things to keep my interest and I have gotten all the reposes so far, so the lack of challenges hasnt really been a issue.

Please, enlighten me with your knowledge of "how business works in these kinds of areas." I'm also an adult. I get that the main goal of a business is to make a profit. But to take a two ton crap on your existing customers is bad business.

Well since you already have the stance that you are "being crapped on" by their business model I doubt there will be much of a fruitful discussion coming from any in depth conversation regarding it. You've already drawn your line in the sand so to speak.

Yes, the main goal of any business is to make money. They also need to continue to recycle existing characters or rely completely on new characters with every game released. Its the same concept with a Collectible Card Game. Making new characters takes time, and if the goal is a yearly release schedule that's not going to be a reliable concept if a certain level of quality is desired. So with that, we fall back to needing to recycle/repose the characters. That means that they need a reason for people to buy them. So they tweak them with new powers and new abilities here and there. Collectors and the Hardcore gamers are the ones worried about 100% and maxing out everything. Most the *target audience* is children that aren't worried about those things. They just want the characters they think are cool or appeal to them on some level. You can even have kids that want to play with the figures as toys, that don't even play the video game. Stranger things have happened.

You can only make but so many variants, legendary, lightforce, etc with any given release and still have it considered within reason. I have no doubt with the numbers mentioned with Swap-Force they are going to try and push it again and see how many people bite. If people continue to buy everything, the base line will increase again. If sales drop, they'll scale back.

GothamLord, you're missing my point, and you haven't really addressed any of the issues I have with TPTB. I have no problem with them re-posing existing characters, as long as the original figs aren't nerfed. But this is exactly what they did. People who didn't buy SSA but did buy Giants SHOULD be able to buy the original figs if they want to. That is a good reason to make re-posed figs. But the fact that the new figs unlock heroics that the originals don't is equivalent to TPTB taking a crap on those of us that bought into the first game.

Himewad, I am 100% there with you... I am also an adult and have no problem spending hundreds a year on this franchise... however after seeing the plan for Swap-Force (not to mention the toddler-esque downgrade in character design with the Swap figures) and learning that I would NEED to buy all the Swap-force figures just to access all the areas to complete the game (not just cross the "finish line"), I have lost all interest in this franchise. I am hoping they see the large scale impact it will have this next year and am very curious to see how it affects them in 2014. I have collected every figure for both games, every in-game variant and even numerous chase variants but I will draw the line at Giants. I am undecided if I may purchase any "S3" reposes that I could play in S:SA or Giants, but I am guessing I will not. I am suspecting they will lose a lot of money in their greedy pursuit to "require" purchasing dozens more figures for another game (not to mention their competition from the infamous Disney company this year now)!! I prolly would be suckered in if the swap-force figures weren't required (just wouldn't buy those ones, like many did with the lightcores this time around), but unfortunately that's not the case. Oh well, I think they will realize their mistake too late and they will have already lost too many devoted fans (at hundreds of dollars a piece, that will add up quickly)!! I'm pretty anxious to see how it plays out a year from now!!

It would be NICE, and a way to reward long term players, if they did things to encourage people to keep playing with their existing toys in the newer games. So far, I think they are not doing that.

With Swap force, there will be even more people coming into it with s1 or s2 toys. I wonder if they will, this time, do things to encourage those players to stick around.

Quote: Shroomy_Boomy

Himewad, I am 100% there with you... I am also an adult and have no problem spending hundreds a year on this franchise... however after seeing the plan for Swap-Force (not to mention the toddler-esque downgrade in character design with the Swap figures) and learning that I would NEED to buy all the Swap-force figures just to access all the areas to complete the game (not just cross the "finish line"), I have lost all interest in this franchise. I am hoping they see the large scale impact it will have this next year and am very curious to see how it affects them in 2014. I have collected every figure for both games, every in-game variant and even numerous chase variants but I will draw the line at Giants. I am undecided if I may purchase any "S3" reposes that I could play in S:SA or Giants, but I am guessing I will not. I am suspecting they will lose a lot of money in their greedy pursuit to "require" purchasing dozens more figures for another game (not to mention their competition from the infamous Disney company this year now)!! I prolly would be suckered in if the swap-force figures weren't required (just wouldn't buy those ones, like many did with the lightcores this time around), but unfortunately that's not the case. Oh well, I think they will realize their mistake too late and they will have already lost too many devoted fans (at hundreds of dollars a piece, that will add up quickly)!! I'm pretty anxious to see how it plays out a year from now!!

where do they "require" the additional purchase of anything? as always, the game can be played and completed with the characters from the starter kit. why are you making crap up to ***** about?

Quote: DragonsDream

where do they "require" the additional purchase of anything? as always, the game can be played and completed with the characters from the starter kit. why are you making crap up to ***** about?

You must have missed this part, so here it is again.

Quote: Himewad

No other game we play requires additional purchases to this extent (yes, I said "requires"). A big part of the game for us is getting the figures fully upgraded (through the heroic challenges). The game requires the purchase of every figure in order to accomplish this. Not once, but now twice.

My statement stands. If you wanted to fully upgrade your figures in SSA, you were required to buy every figure to unlock every heroic challenge. I was fine with that. It was a unique game, and the figures were cool, and my son loved it. When they released Giants, if you want to fully upgrade all of your new figures, you are required to re-purchase figures that you have already purchased.

What part, exactly, am I "making crap up to ***** about?"

I guess you and I have different definitions of "requires"

The game does not "require" any additional purchases. To say othrwise is simply a lie.
To complete every challenge (or to visit every area or collect every hat, etc) does. But that is a personal choice. You are not "required" to do so. You are not required to play the game and you are not required to beat the game. Find another word.

Quote: Himewad

GothamLord, you're missing my point, and you haven't really addressed any of the issues I have with TPTB. I have no problem with them re-posing existing characters, as long as the original figs aren't nerfed. But this is exactly what they did. People who didn't buy SSA but did buy Giants SHOULD be able to buy the original figs if they want to. That is a good reason to make re-posed figs. But the fact that the new figs unlock heroics that the originals don't is equivalent to TPTB taking a crap on those of us that bought into the first game.

The original figures arent "nerfed" they still function as they were designed to with the game that they were released with. Nerfing them would imply they lost something from their original design. Again, the reposes and additional figures need to provide a purpose and additional selling point for people to open their wallets again for them. This comes with new powers and designs with each game. The old figures still work, they just arent as powerful. People can still buy the older figures if they want, assuming they can find the ones they want. People buying the older figures again arent the target demograph though.

Quote: GothamLord

The original figures arent "nerfed" ... Nerfing them would imply they lost something from their original design.

Quote: GothamLord

The old figures still work, they just arent as powerful.

I don't even know how to respond to this logic.

Quote: DragonsDream

I guess you and I have different definitions of "requires"

The game does not "require" any additional purchases. To say othrwise is simply a lie.
To complete every challenge (or to visit every area or collect every hat, etc) does. But that is a personal choice. You are not "required" to do so. You are not required to play the game and you are not required to beat the game. Find another word.

I will continue to use the word "requires" because it fits my beef with TPTB. My personal choice, as you put it, is to fully upgrade every figure. In order to to that in SSA, I purchased all 32 figures. I should not be expected to re-purchase 24 of those 32 figures in order to fully upgrade the new figures.

YOU can use whatever word you like, but I am required to re-purchase figures that I already own in order to unlock heroic challenges that I had been playing for the past year.

TPTB could have easily allowed S1 figs to unlock those older heroic challenges. But they made a decision to only allow S2 figs to do so. If figures sold for a few bucks each, I MIGHT not mind so much. But when you are talking about spending hundreds of extra dollars, it rubs me the wrong way.

Quote: Himewad

Quote: GothamLord

The original figures arent "nerfed" ... Nerfing them would imply they lost something from their original design.

Quote: GothamLord

The old figures still work, they just arent as powerful.

I don't even know how to respond to this logic.

Then why even post anything? CCGs work this same way. Certain cards upgrade, evolve, get new abilities with new sets. It doesnt mean the old ones dont work anymore, they just might not provide the same benefits. They need to change/add things to the figures again to warrant a demand for them. You dont like this business model. Thats fine. That doesnt mean its a lack of logic.

Quote: Himewad

Quote: GothamLord

The original figures arent "nerfed" ... Nerfing them would imply they lost something from their original design.

Quote: GothamLord

The old figures still work, they just arent as powerful.

I don't even know how to respond to this logic.

hes right they havent been nerfed, the new figures have been buffed, but the old figures havent changed at all

by your logic if they were to buff ghost roaster in the next game so he has an extra 100 HP, the thats a nerf to Zap because he didnt get the buff.

The fact that you can use the old figures is great, they had to have a reason for you to want to get s2, but i have about 12 s1 figures and i have no intention of getting the s2 version because of a wow pow, or heroic challenge (which i can do in the original if i so desire)

they would of '**** on us' if they didnt allow previous figures to work with the new game and then released s2 versions that did.

i dont see the problem here

Quote: GothamLord

Then why even post anything? CCGs work this same way. Certain cards upgrade, evolve, get new abilities with new sets. It doesnt mean the old ones dont work anymore, they just might not provide the same benefits. They need to change/add things to the figures again to warrant a demand for them. You dont like this business model. Thats fine. That doesnt mean its a lack of logic.

I didn't know how to respond because you stated one thing in your prior post, then stated another, contradictory thing shortly thereafter.

Quote: IJJusion

hes right they havent been nerfed, the new figures have been buffed, but the old figures havent changed at all

by your logic if they were to buff ghost roaster in the next game so he has an extra 100 HP, the thats a nerf to Zap because he didnt get the buff.

The fact that you can use the old figures is great, they had to have a reason for you to want to get s2, but i have about 12 s1 figures and i have no intention of getting the s2 version because of a wow pow, or heroic challenge (which i can do in the original if i so desire)

they would of '**** on us' if they didnt allow previous figures to work with the new game and then released s2 versions that did.

i dont see the problem here

But they HAVE been nerfed. They don't have the same functionality as before. That's my point. In order to get their heroic challenged unlocked, you need the S2 figs. The S1 figs are playable, but they no longer unlock the challenges. In other words, they have been nerfed.

Your Ghost Roaster / Zap comparison is without merit. I'm not comparing one figure to another figure. I'm comparing one figure to the SAME figure.

And I completely disagree that they HAD to have a reason for us to buy the S2 figs. They already got my money once. If TPTB wanted to give the new figs the switchable upgrade path option, fine. I can live without that in my S1 figs. Wow Pow? Not a deal breaker. But to require the purchase in order to unlock an old heroic challenge is a joke.

Quote: Himewad

Quote: DragonsDream

I guess you and I have different definitions of "requires"

The game does not "require" any additional purchases. To say othrwise is simply a lie.
To complete every challenge (or to visit every area or collect every hat, etc) does. But that is a personal choice. You are not "required" to do so. You are not required to play the game and you are not required to beat the game. Find another word.

I will continue to use the word "requires" because it fits my beef with TPTB. My personal choice, as you put it, is to fully upgrade every figure. In order to to that in SSA, I purchased all 32 figures. I should not be expected to re-purchase 24 of those 32 figures in order to fully upgrade the new figures.

YOU can use whatever word you like, but I am required to re-purchase figures that I already own in order to unlock heroic challenges that I had been playing for the past year.

TPTB could have easily allowed S1 figs to unlock those older heroic challenges. But they made a decision to only allow S2 figs to do so. If figures sold for a few bucks each, I MIGHT not mind so much. But when you are talking about spending hundreds of extra dollars, it rubs me the wrong way.

How about finding someone else with the new figures you need coming over to the house and unlocking the challenge with their figure for you? You dont spend the money and you still get it unlocked. The issue from what I see is your self-admitted completionist personality clashing against what your wallet warrants as justified. The whole concept of the figures working across multiple console platforms was so kids could play with each other at their houses without the need to worry about different systems conflicting. Kids having varying collections of Skylanders but still able to help one another by unlocking things for each other through co-play. Kids that of course have ALL the characters are at an advantage but again its far from REQUIRED.

Again though note that its YOUR personality to get everything at 100%. If your son doesnt give two shakes about it, neither should you. If he's lost interest with the franchise it all really becomes a moot point. Of course if *you* want to continue with interest separately thats another story.

Quote: Himewad

Quote: GothamLord

Then why even post anything? CCGs work this same way. Certain cards upgrade, evolve, get new abilities with new sets. It doesnt mean the old ones dont work anymore, they just might not provide the same benefits. They need to change/add things to the figures again to warrant a demand for them. You dont like this business model. Thats fine. That doesnt mean its a lack of logic.

I didn't know how to respond because you stated one thing in your prior post, then stated another, contradictory thing shortly thereafter.

No I didnt.

The SA figures work as they were designed to.... for Spyro's Adventure. They still work they same way they were originally designed to in Giants. Nothing was removed. Therefore they arent nerfed. The designers choose not to incorporate them unlocking the challenges in Giants. That doesnt nerf them because not adding the feature for the new game isnt subtracting from the original.

Do you have a stake in Activision or something? There is no justification for doing what they did. They could have made new AND old customers happy at the same time. But instead, they dicked over their SSA customers and pandered to the Giants customers.

There have been many who agree with me on this. It's not just me and my opinion. If you want to continue getting hosed, by all means go ahead. I'm hoping that they get their act together next time, because I'm telling you that people will not continue to spend hundreds of dollars with each release.

They messed up with Guitar Hero, but you never really needed to buy a new guitar each time a game was released. The new songs were what people wanted, and the cost was simply the cost of a game. Now it's hundreds of dollars with each release? Good luck with that, Activision.

i can agree that it would of been good to have them unlock their heroic in the second game as well as the first, but you seem to be making a really big deal out of this which i dont get.

and youve agreed that the other 2 things arent a big deal so eh. ill just leave it at that.

Quote: Himewad

Do you have a stake in Activision or something? There is no justification for doing what they did. They could have made new AND old customers happy at the same time. But instead, they dicked over their SSA customers and pandered to the Giants customers.

There have been many who agree with me on this. It's not just me and my opinion. If you want to continue getting hosed, by all means go ahead. I'm hoping that they get their act together next time, because I'm telling you that people will not continue to spend hundreds of dollars with each release.

They messed up with Guitar Hero, but you never really needed to buy a new guitar each time a game was released. The new songs were what people wanted, and the cost was simply the cost of a game. Now it's hundreds of dollars with each release? Good luck with that, Activision.

Because my opinion doesnt agree with yours I'm suddenly in with "The Man" ? Comon' now. Sure there are people that share your opinion. There are also plenty on my side of the fence. Some have already posted in here. If you look at each game as its own separate entity there isnt a issue. The ability of the old figures working into the new game is a bonus provided by the designers but not something they are required to do. They didnt screw/hose/dick over anyone. Your SA figures still work in SA the same way as always. The Giants figures work for Giants as they were designed. They provided the SA players the bonus of having those characters work in Giants with a larger level cap to make the game easier to start with characters already leveled up.

I just don't understand how anyone could be in favor of paying more money to unlock the same features. It's not like SSA was originally released 5 years ago and now they need to play catch-up. The game is one year old. The S1 figs should have held more value than just being able to play with them in Giants.

In all seriousness though, you are certainly allowed to think that way. Would it be a nice feature? Without a doubt. Not arguing with you on that. Just that its not required.

Again though I rewind back to my previous statement a few posts back. Does your son have friends that also play? Do you know others that have the figures? Or one could argue about it being ethical I guess... Buy the s2 figure, plop it on the portal in the package. Get the challenge unlocked and take the figure back to the store. You arent technically stealing anything.


Otherwise we can continue to bounce this back and forth. It beating a dead horse on the internet. It generally doesnt get any of us, any further. You have your stance. I have mine. Random Person #456798 has theirs. In the end it come down to us speaking with our wallets, and whoever is the majority wins. Is it a bit of a over used response? Maybe a little bit, but that doesnt make it any less true.

Himewad, I'm completely with you on this. It's one of the rules of business to do what you can to get repeat business, and here that means to reward SSA players who now buy Giants. The only way they've done that is that SSA figures keep their progress (their upgrades, their heroic challenges completed, their level). That's nice, but that's not much. And that's from someone who greatly benefitted from this: I finished upgrading my Stealth Elf early on in SSA, but she was my go-to character for speed runs and difficult spots (like the XBox Achievement for beating Kaos without switching characters). As such, she got LOADED with money she couldn't use. In Giants she's been my bank, I bought everything from Auric and Hatterson with her extra money.

One advantage there SHOULD have been and they missed out on is to make the SSA and SG figures equivalent, to be one collection, to make it easier for original players to get a complete collection, and your point IS the difference. If S1 would unlock HCs, then they'd be sufficiently equivalent. They don't, so they aren't.

Let me put it this way: My Tree Rex can never do Ghost Roaster's Heroic Challenge (yes, I know some of the dropped guys' HCs made it in as unassigned HCs, but I haven't checked exactly which ones, so maybe one is Ghost Roaster's. If so, just mentally switch him for one who didn't make it). He's Series 1, and they didn't rerelease him, so Tree Rex - and all other Giants, and all newlanders - can never do it. They're just THAT much weaker than they could be. Between both games, my fully upgraded SSA figures have 40 Heroic Challenges done, my Giants characters are limited to 18. That amounts to a rather LARGE difference now!

Quote: Shroomy_Boomy

and learning that I would NEED to buy all the Swap-force figures just to access all the areas to complete the game (not just cross the "finish line"), I have lost all interest in this franchise.

Seriously???!?! I haven't read anything from Swap Force yet, but this would be so wrong! I was quite appreciative that in Giants that all the Elemental Gates could still be unlocked with my SSA characters, and the only new limitation, requiring a Giant, could be fulfilled by the Giant I got with the game... This would be a SERIOUS slap in the face to all past and current players!

Quote: Himewad

Quote: GothamLord

The original figures arent "nerfed" ... Nerfing them would imply they lost something from their original design.

Quote: GothamLord

The old figures still work, they just arent as powerful.

I don't even know how to respond to this logic.

Agreed. GothamLord, he's got you there. First you say they're not nerfed, because "nerfed" would mean they lost something (implying they've lost nothing), then you specify something they lost! Okay, maybe technically it's more "missed out on" than "lost", but still. You basically first say they're just as good, then that they're weaker.

Yeah, I'm on my way out. I enjoy the game for what it is, but I can't really afford to be part of it anymore. It's ok though. I'm a brony, i love other stuffs. And I can't wait until ESO comes out later this year. That will be my new timewaster.

Quote: niceguy1

Agreed. GothamLord, he's got you there. First you say they're not nerfed, because "nerfed" would mean they lost something (implying they've lost nothing), then you specify something they lost! Okay, maybe technically it's more "missed out on" than "lost", but still. You basically first say they're just as good, then that they're weaker.

Go back and reread the context of the original post regarding it. Nothing contradicts itself in my statement. The SA figures lost nothing. The SA figures arent as powerful compared to the newer Giants figures. If you cant differentiate, thats not my fault.

Quote: GothamLord

Quote: niceguy1

Agreed. GothamLord, he's got you there. First you say they're not nerfed, because "nerfed" would mean they lost something (implying they've lost nothing), then you specify something they lost! Okay, maybe technically it's more "missed out on" than "lost", but still. You basically first say they're just as good, then that they're weaker.

Go back and reread the context of the original post regarding it. Nothing contradicts itself in my statement. The SA figures lost nothing. The SA figures arent as powerful compared to the newer Giants figures. If you cant differentiate, thats not my fault.

I read the whole thread before I commented, thanks.

And here you do it again! Not being as powerful IS losing something, they lost the "chance" to be stronger, at least according to your own statements. Can't you see how you're being contradictory?

Quote: Himewad

Quote: GothamLord

When you stop enjoying it, its certainly the time to move on with things.

I get the business model with the figures and the desire to want to push the newer ones. I'm an adult and I grasp how business works in these kinds of areas. Some people like it, some don't. Not being able to play the heroic challenges with the S1s was a bit annoying but it wasnt enough to totally kill my interest in things. Giants had enough of other things to keep my interest and I have gotten all the reposes so far, so the lack of challenges hasnt really been a issue.

Please, enlighten me with your knowledge of "how business works in these kinds of areas." I'm also an adult. I get that the main goal of a business is to make a profit. But to take a two ton crap on your existing customers is bad business.

I'm in a love / hate relationship with the franchise. As a middle aged professional, money isn't a concern but like you I've noticed the very specific decisions they've made. I work in IT, so I've reviewed what data they save on the RFID chip. Technically, there's no reason WHY they couldn't or don't support an "expansive" data block to store dynamic information that may not be known at the time the current generation of product is released.

Clearly, many of the decisions is all tied to marketing and selling the newer players. They've technically met their promise of "supporting older characters"...I don't recall them saying they'll let you do all of the cool new stuff with them though.

Personally, I wish they would stop limting their franchise with the constant re-selling of the same characters. I totally get it that there are some fan favorites--but they shouldn't require about 50% of the characters are re-released. If they would tune that down, increase the new characters and allow "future" proofing so old characters can get new features would be welcome.

In regards to Swap Force, they've done a few things to support what I think is a step in the right direction:

• All characters will be able to jump -- a new capability in the game that you haven't had before.
  
• There are fewer re-issued characters, and they are improving the lineup of new characters.
  

They can take the franchise anywhere they want...my son and I will continue until it's no longer fun. Critically, my son is getting tired of "churning" the players to get fully upgraded. It's more of a chore. The fact that they also will release some characters until AFTER everyone has completed the game and played it so often that they won't get the full value of the experience. I would like some unique game content for every character that unlocks...as you say there still needs to be more playability here.

Great comments, and I empathize with your situation. Everything must end at some point...but I'm still part of the fun.

All I can say I hope, is that those Swap force characters are not crazy expensive.

Quote: niceguy1

Quote: GothamLord

Quote: niceguy1

Agreed. GothamLord, he's got you there. First you say they're not nerfed, because "nerfed" would mean they lost something (implying they've lost nothing), then you specify something they lost! Okay, maybe technically it's more "missed out on" than "lost", but still. You basically first say they're just as good, then that they're weaker.

Go back and reread the context of the original post regarding it. Nothing contradicts itself in my statement. The SA figures lost nothing. The SA figures arent as powerful compared to the newer Giants figures. If you cant differentiate, thats not my fault.

I read the whole thread before I commented, thanks.

And here you do it again! Not being as powerful IS losing something, they lost the "chance" to be stronger, at least according to your own statements. Can't you see how you're being contradictory?

its not losing it, if you never had it, how is it contradictory?

boy 1 gets and ice cream with 2 scoops
boy 2 gets and ice cream with 2 scoops

boy 2 then gets an additional scoop

boy 1 now doesnt have as much as boy 2, but has lost nothing from his ice cream.

And because no one got sprinkles someone will still find a reason to complain.

Quote: IJJusion

Quote: niceguy1

Quote: GothamLord

Go back and reread the context of the original post regarding it. Nothing contradicts itself in my statement. The SA figures lost nothing. The SA figures arent as powerful compared to the newer Giants figures. If you cant differentiate, thats not my fault.

I read the whole thread before I commented, thanks.

And here you do it again! Not being as powerful IS losing something, they lost the "chance" to be stronger, at least according to your own statements. Can't you see how you're being contradictory?

its not losing it, if you never had it, how is it contradictory?

boy 1 gets and ice cream with 2 scoops
boy 2 gets and ice cream with 2 scoops

boy 2 then gets an additional scoop

boy 1 now doesnt have as much as boy 2, but has lost nothing from his ice cream.

Thing is, in this case; you're both right---to a point.

The S1 characters didn't exactly lose something that they used to have. They still work in the first game the way they always did; that hasn't changed.

BUT! If you take an S1 character that has done all 32 HCs from the first game and look at his stats in THAT game and compare it to what that exact same character has in the SECOND game; there IS a stat loss--because TFB pretty much made that you have to complete ALL the HCs in Giants to get the same (or very close to the same) stats that it had in the first game.

The reason that they did this? I'm only speculating here, but it probably was to prevent them from being overpowered in Giants from having their stats boosted further. This would have likely resulted in fewer sales of the new figures if it was found out that the older figures were that much more powerful than the new ones. And the only way they could have prevented this was to make the new figures compatible with the first game--which may have been impossible, as it would have most likely required a major patch with all the animation files and whatnot.

This isn't even what I'm complaining about, Q Slick. The ice cream comparison isn't equivalent. It's not boy 1 getting two scoops and boy 2 getting two scoops, then boy 2 getting another. It's boy 1 getting two scoops, boy 2 getting three scoops, and then boy 1 has a scoop taken away.

And yes, Gotham Lord, I have seriously considered buying all of the S2 figs, putting them on the portal through the packaging, and returning them. It's not quite sticking it to the man, but it may be as close as I can get.

I have also had this push away from giants. It was fun at first and now it is just like whatever. I'm just not that hyped anymore for this. But then again I do get into different moods of playing certain games...

Quote: Himewad

3. The fact that Series 2 figures get benefits that the newlanders do not. The ability to switch out upgrade paths is very cool. I wish they would have thought of it for the S1 figures. But apparently they weren't able to retroactively allow that capability. But why don't the Giants and the other new figs have this option? I'll tell you why. They intend to re-release the same figures in another game, but the Series 3 (for lack of a better term) figures will have this path-switching ability. Bank on it.

This was OBVIOUS from the moment they announced the idea of S2s though. A lot of people on here defended their own theory as to their existence (which was more of a justification) but it was always strictly a business move.

Quote: Himewad

My son has already lost some interest in the game, and if he isn't excited about this year's release, we won't continue with this franchise. They have done a lot of harm to what could have been a really, really cool game.

I just really don't feel that Skylanders as a game had much to offer (sorry, I buy a game for it's main storyline NOT the bonus features I have no interest in nor asked for so don't tell me that it's filled with countless side stuff). Let's face it, if it wasn't for the figures interacting with the game concept, this would be a B-grade game. It's replayability isn't very enjoyable when all you want to do is get coins to upgrade the (annoyingly high) upgrade cost.

I'm definitely interested to see where the series goes from here. Swap Force looks neat, and the "gimmick" is pretty cool this time around. That being said, I can see myself being done with the series depending on how things are handled for Swap Force.

Backwards compatibility for Giants was sloppily handled. Your figures work fine, but missing out on in-game content like heroics because you don't want to repurchase series 1 figures just felt slimy. Having the adventure packs work was a nice bonus, but there are parts in those levels that have empty rooms with nothing to collect or do so they felt incomplete.

My biggest problem with the series as it is now is that there isn't enough game to justify buying all the figures. It's always great to see new characters and try them out, but once you get that last character, you have nothing to do with them because you exhausted everything there is to do in the game.

I've said it in another thread, but I really think they should take a break from from constantly churning out new figures and instead come out with a game-only expansion in between major releases. Just as something to get use out of all those figures you collected throughout the year. This'll give people a break from spending hundreds of dollars buying figures every year, or give people more time to get figures they missed out on. It'll keep the Skylanders name fresh for the people who've moved on to other games after beating the previous one.

Anyway, I'm kind of neutral with the series at the moment. I adored the figures to game hook but it'll lose it's luster if they make the same mistakes again. For better or worse, it'll be interesting to see where Swap Force takes the series.

I do see your point himewade. True it does have a lower replay value atleast by yourself. But I wouldn't totatly give up on the series just yet. Wait and see and you never know you might like it again. Game Companies though they are trying to make a profit they do try to make the games better. Skylanders is one of them. As for collections go myself I normally just only get my favorites.

Honestly I'm done if they don't offer any sort of online play. I said I wouldn't bother with Giants if it didn't, but I gave it one last shot seeing as the game seemed much more polished.

..But now they have the resources to be able to offer online play, and if they don't deliver I'm out. If they don't want kids being exposed negatively at all for online PvP, then mics should just be automatically disabled.

We'll see, I guess.

>implying the games were good to begin with.

Otherwise, yeah, I agree.

I'm likely going to wait and see how things go with Swap Force, if it's really 32 new figures, PLUS the reposes and new Lightcores, I'm not sure such a game needs such a huge cast. Giants has been worthwhile for me, but Swap Force isn't really doing much to entice me.

Quote: DocCroc

My biggest problem with the series as it is now is that there isn't enough game to justify buying all the figures. It's always great to see new characters and try them out, but once you get that last character, you have nothing to do with them because you exhausted everything there is to do in the game.

Quote: Nelomet

I'm likely going to wait and see how things go with Swap Force, if it's really 32 new figures, PLUS the reposes and new Lightcores, I'm not sure such a game needs such a huge cast. Giants has been worthwhile for me, but Swap Force isn't really doing much to entice me.

I think you both have hit on something. There's not enough game to justify all of the figures. Folks beat the game 3-4 months ago, and now all of the brand new characters not out yet seems to have lost its charm because your just grinding on boards you already know.

They will need to step up on the content--maybe open up something unique in the game or as a free DLC if your save game file has X number of characters etc or open up disk content for each skylander---or improved gameplay mechanics that can justify all of these characters.

Quote: Himewad

And yes, Gotham Lord, I have seriously considered buying all of the S2 figs, putting them on the portal through the packaging, and returning them. It's not quite sticking it to the man, but it may be as close as I can get.

Imagine a kids face when he gets home and puts on a returned skylander that is MAX out with its soul gem purchased LOL.

I just discovered last night that you can't open Heroic Challenges with series 1 characters and I too am annoyed.

I hear all this talk about marketing/business models etc, etc, (I work in marketing by the way) but there comes a point where it just goes too far and I think Skylanders is quickly getting to that point.

Skylanders is a brilliant concept. It's the Golden Goose of gaming at the moment, but instead of letting the goose lay her eggs and harvesting them over time, they seem intent on cutting her guts open and ripping the eggs out, killing the goose for short-term gain.

Having a bunch of reposes is just a pain. I brought every series 1 character so I don't get excited about buying them again with nothing more than the ability to switch paths and a wow pow power. Yeah those points are good but I would prefer to get more use out of my series 1 characters. So now I (we) have pretty much 2 of most characters. But what value do I really get out of having 2 Zaps? Or 2 Chop Chop's? To be honest there's no value, I hardly ever use those characters so 1 of each was more than enough.

But the focus seems to be on creating new characters and a few new skills for existing characters, instead of creating more games for me to use my original toys in. Sure Activision and TFB are creaming it at the moment, but lots of people I am talking to are not excited about Swap Force because each game - SSA, Giants and soon Swap Force - are just a blatant grab for cash with little offered in return in terms of game playing value.

As a lot of people have mentioned there is very little replay value in these games. Once you've defeated Kaos what's left to do? Seems that people like Himewad (feels dirty typing that) try to increase the bang for their buck by doing all of the heroic challenges with each of their characters. But not allowing a series 1 character to unlock the challenge on Giants is a blatant rip off. It's essentially saying 'Thanks for buying a character that we only wanted you to use a few times on SSA, but we want to push you to rebuy that same toy all over again'. Sure nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head saying 'You must buy this', but what's the alternative? Even less game play.

Think about it, you could only play what 30-40% of SSA unless you had at least 1 character from each element. Now they are talking about potentially needing ALL Swap Force characters to open up that entire game?

Anyone who has brought Skylanders has been ripped off to some extent. If you haven't brought all of the characters then you don't get all of the game play which makes a limited game even more limited. If you have brought all the characters then you've paid a lot of money to unlock not much. I mean you can complete either game with only a handful of characters, you don't need 90 odd or whatever it is.

And to those saying 'You don't have to buy them, you can play the game without them' I would say yes you can, but that's a bit like saying 'We'll sell you this new car but it's extra if you want to be able to turn the stereo on'.

Anyway, rant over. Hope that Activision either a) start placing a greater focus on creating more games that the characters can be used in or b) that Skylanders dies a quick death and sales plummet leaving Activision with a bunch of toys they can't shift.

That's something I didn't think of, and would LOVE to see. More level packs, be they physical DLC or virtual DLC (Or heaven forbid, free content!), or simply new games without new figures.

My primary reason for avoiding Swap Force at this stage is they've got 32 new figures, not including reposes/lightcores, and that's a bit overwhelming when it's such a hassle getting 16 out of Giants, especially if Swap Force has the same rate of release that Giants has.

Also, it's a bit of a low move to make things such as Dragon's peak, and Darklight Crypt much harder to get when that's the only way to get Sunburn and Ghost Roaster, at least Slam Bam and Terrafin got reposes, why not the other 'exclusives'? I'd like to think it was an oversight, but part of me thinks it was a means to drive up demand for those two sets.

Quote: Nelomet

That's something I didn't think of, and would LOVE to see. More level packs, be they physical DLC or virtual DLC (Or heaven forbid, free content!), or simply new games without new figures.

My primary reason for avoiding Swap Force at this stage is they've got 32 new figures, not including reposes/lightcores, and that's a bit overwhelming when it's such a hassle getting 16 out of Giants, especially if Swap Force has the same rate of release that Giants has.

Also, it's a bit of a low move to make things such as Dragon's peak, and Darklight Crypt much harder to get when that's the only way to get Sunburn and Ghost Roaster, at least Slam Bam and Terrafin got reposes, why not the other 'exclusives'? I'd like to think it was an oversight, but part of me thinks it was a means to drive up demand for those two sets.

I think every character should unlock a level or DLC as you call it--or unlock a path of gameplay that's UNIQUE to that character. And have that as an ongoing theme moving forward. It would be complex to pull off. But kinda like they have elemental gates--how about character "gates" or unique situations that involve only that character? This would potentially make it less of a button masher and a mini RPG aka Skyrim...but I think it's clear people want more value from their toys than simply saying "we'll let you use your toys, but if you want the shiny bells and whistles of the new game...time to trade in".

And I "think" with Swap Force they've started to turn the tide because the majority of characters are all new, so I'm going to be optimistic for a bit longer.

But guys--they make their money selling the toys, not the game. Can you imagine their sales chart if they went from $500 million to $100 million if they didn't sell the toys? Actually, I would like for them to take a "toy" break and simply release new games that leverage skylanders up to that point--or maybe even future proof it with downloadable updates. Sounds like a winner to me. That's basically the online universe, but that looks more like a novelty now---but I wouldn't put it past them to evolve that into a much larger and interesting mechanic.

Quote: Nelomet

Also, it's a bit of a low move to make things such as Dragon's peak, and Darklight Crypt much harder to get when that's the only way to get Sunburn and Ghost Roaster, at least Slam Bam and Terrafin got reposes, why not the other 'exclusives'? I'd like to think it was an oversight, but part of me thinks it was a means to drive up demand for those two sets.

If your driving up the demand for sets that you aren't supplying, then what's the marketing strategy here since you aren't selling? Drive up demand for Swap Force repose characters? That's all I have.

I suppose so, maybe we'll see the likes of Boomer, Ghost Roaster, Camo, Sunburn, Dino-rang, Voodood, Warnado and Wham Shell in Series 3.