darkSpyro

^ Neither does the opponent.

Still can't aim the scarecrows well, even if you do your opponent can destroy them with ease.

Forest Ninja is no higher than C.

Merry Christmas Everyone! Here are a couple of thoughts after Arena battling with the boys over the past week. I would like to qualify the statements with the fact that these were Dad versus Boys (10 and 7) tested but still should provide directional accuracy. Looking forward to feedback and others directional input.

Prism Break (Prismancer) - Much stronger than expected. The Beams length and accuracy on terrain changes in Arenas is much improved and with all the upgrades, does massive damage. My 10 year old was a beast on him and even against Double Trouble S2 (Channeler) Beam on Beam it ended up very close. We were able to achieve a reasonable 50ish % win against A and B class Skylanders although we weren't really keeping track of how many A or B wins. However, it was powerful enough that I'd like to hear how others fair when using the Prismancer Path in practice.

Whirlwind S2 (Tempest Dragon) - Whirlwind was my favorite underdog in S:SA. I always enjoyed playing her strategically and found her more powerful in practice than her ranking. I had to patiently wait months for Whirlwind S2 as my boys hinted heavily about that being my Christmas present ... and it was! Needless to say, I was super excited After upgrading her and getting the new Wow Pow, we started Arenas when she was level 9 as I just couldn't wait.

I wasn't disappointed in the least. In fact, I underestimated how powerful the the Wow Pow would be on Tempest Dragon (Tashiji, you were correct). She systematically eliminated every B class and A class we put up against her and bested S class with high frequenct. However, as noted above, my opponents, although well schooled in video games and using their favorite characters, were still young boys. Still, the effectiveness does not seem like it would scale downward dramatically even against more seasoned veteran video gamers.

The strategy to take advantage of the Wow Pow and Tempest Clouds revolves around a simple game of keep-away and Tempest Cloud firing. Strategically place yourself from your opponent and fire Tempest Cloud by holding down its fire button. In most maps, this allows the cloud to travel about 3/4 of the length of the map; getting a Cloud "close" to the opponent and then releasing the button to launch a targeted Rainbow attack. Although the initial Clouds are easy to dodge, the Rainbows are not; both on first Rainbow Attack and when they are "done" and Rainbow attacks again.

On paper I thought the easiness of dodging the Tempest Clouds and Rainbows would remain the same in S:G as in S:SA, but in actually practice Whirlwind was able to long range siege very effectively as you keep the Tempest Clouds moving one way and you another combined with the Lightning between them and Rainbows flying our of them. Skylanders who tried to get close to her for melee were bombarded with Tempest Cloud and Rainbow Damage galore as she flies/jumps/teleports to safety ... with the added bonus of putting a Tempest Cloud in front/on a teleporter to black it from being used

I am withholding a ranking suggestion as my favoritism and proficiency with Whirlwind likely puts some subjectivity in to the discussion. However, on a practical level if Whirlwind (Tempest) S1 is B class, Whirlwind S2's Wow Pow either moves her to A class or pushes Whirlwind S1 to C class. You can all probably guess my direction of movement for her ;-)

Personally, I'd love others (Tashiji I'm looking at you to test her more with this strategy and offer up thoughts. Thanks all !

^ Let me ask you, how skilled are your kids in comparision to yourself? It almost sems like you're moderately better than them at PvP (no offense).

Quote: LightSpyro13

^ Let me ask you, how skilled are your kids in comparision to yourself? It almost sems like you're moderately better than them at PvP (no offense).

Give pony a carrot!!! That was an extremely well issued no offense statement at the end of your message. You had an observation that might hurt his findings, you pointed it out, but weren't trying to attack the poster. It matters more what direction someone is headed in then where they are at currently.

Tempest dragon is firmly in the " high ceiling" group, much like super shards. It makes it difficult to land an accurate tier since some, no matter how good at other games and with the other characters, play tempest dragon as if she were D, and others play her at A or even S. You put her in S, and all you'll get is people griping about how she can't beat anybody up there ( which is so far from true it's not even funny). You put her in D and you get the opposite reaction (and I've seen plenty of the D's do her in as well). So naturally shell have to settle in that a-c range of Egonaut might be forced to close the thread due to inappropriate language coming from the arguments.

^ What the hell?

Guys, can we focus on Swarm moving to s?

Quote: LightSpyro13

^ Let me ask you, how skilled are your kids in comparision to yourself? It almost sems like you're moderately better than them at PvP (no offense).

I stated multiple times that there is obviously a difference in ability between myself and my boys; enough so that I didn't even give Whirlwind a ranking from my performance with him. However, Prism Break was being played by both the boys against me and that is why his power surprised me. When it comes to whirlwind, neither have the patience for "sieging" so asking them to play would not be beneficial

He. Is. To. Hard. For. Newbies. To. Control.

Quote: Earth-Dragon

Quote: LightSpyro13

^ Let me ask you, how skilled are your kids in comparision to yourself? It almost sems like you're moderately better than them at PvP (no offense).

Give pony a carrot!!! That was an extremely well issued no offense statement at the end of your message. You had an observation that might hurt his findings, you pointed it out, but weren't trying to attack the poster. It matters more what direction someone is headed in then where they are at currently.

Dude, don't be a jerk. Seriously.

I agree with Silvers on Prismancer. Yes, you lose out on the defense and crystal coverage of Crystaleer, but the truth is, it is still a strong path. Nothing about Silvers' testing seems inconsistent with my own work at all; brute force and nice range keep him competitive regardless of what tier he's fighting in. I would recommend him for B-tier without the slightest hesitation, and he may yet join his Crystaleer counterpart in A before all is said and done. S2 Prism Break is just a powerhouse, regardless of build. Only Bash does more damage as Earth characters go, and he can't work at range the way PB can.

Also, I will try more Whirlwind soon. We do need to get to work on her. She's Vhraina's (my wife's) character, but I don't think she'll mind if I borrow her a little. Let's see how this goes!

Whirlwind Tempest dragon, and a Whirlwind with just the basic upgrades is the difference between Chop Chop with and without his wow pow(one is VASTLY more powerful) I felt Whirlwind was just flat out awful without many upgrades, but I began to find her more and more powerful until I only had a few somewhat consistent counters as her(hi Double Trouble) Her playstyle feels better in giants because of its defensive nature, and as was mentioned earlier defensive playstyles have become more attractive. Which is also why S1 typhoon titan left the E tier(bout freaking time) As you can see from my signature I have S2 Whirlwind, however I have yet to use her. I'm thinking Ultimate rainbower may have some more utility, and might, just might be worth another look vs Tempest dragon, because of the wow pow which makes the rainbows shot from clouds do more damage.

Looking at our C tier, I am going to actually suggest a boost to B for Vac packeteer Jet vac. The corkscrew is actually quite spammable and works somewhat like Chop chop's super shield bash, except obviously not as strong. So yes, thecorkscrew attack was quite a bit nicer than I expected. The mulcher can actually rack up some fast damage, and just enough to score him some wins in C tier(18 at range, and 36 up close!) But of course, the question is: how does he compete with our B tier? I have tested him against one B tier character, and that would be Bouncer/I beam supreme, who he did lose to, but he got Bouncer very low on HP. How he does with the rest of the B tier is for everyone to test. I look forward to seeing some results for this.

Quote: Skybagel

Quote: Earth-Dragon

Quote: LightSpyro13

^ Let me ask you, how skilled are your kids in comparision to yourself? It almost sems like you're moderately better than them at PvP (no offense).

Give pony a carrot!!! That was an extremely well issued no offense statement at the end of your message. You had an observation that might hurt his findings, you pointed it out, but weren't trying to attack the poster. It matters more what direction someone is headed in then where they are at currently.

Dude, don't be a jerk. Seriously.

I feel sorry for you guys when you get into high school. You have idea how to divulge from playful jab and done right insulting people. It only gets more intense in the job world, and there are those few adults who still take everything personally.

Pony has a terrible habit of saying things like "no offense, but I think you are an idiot" and thinks that saying no offense makes it alright. The comment showed pony actually used it properly and so I pointed it out.

I have no animosity or ill will towards pony, and I've even given him/her a playful nickname. Grow-up if it bothers you. You gym teacher, drill sergeant, college professor, office mates, manager, supervisor etc. Are all going to give you one. It's not ment to be insulting. You can go crazy, go get a gun and shoot up a theatre or school because you can't understand the world around you, or you can just learn to appreciate it.

Normally I would have just ignored this, but skybagel, I'm not sure why you've chosen to have a vendetta and snipe my comments. I suppose it better then shooting up a theatre or school which this generation is very fond of doing.

Quote: Skybagel

Quote: Earth-Dragon

Quote: LightSpyro13

^ Let me ask you, how skilled are your kids in comparision to yourself? It almost sems like you're moderately better than them at PvP (no offense).

Give pony a carrot!!! That was an extremely well issued no offense statement at the end of your message. You had an observation that might hurt his findings, you pointed it out, but weren't trying to attack the poster. It matters more what direction someone is headed in then where they are at currently.

Dude, don't be a jerk. Seriously.

This^

Quote: Skybagel

Quote: Earth-Dragon

Quote: Skybagel

Dude, don't be a jerk. Seriously.

I feel sorry for you guys when you get into high school. You have idea how to divulge from playful jab and done right insulting people. It only gets more intense in the job world, and there are those few adults who still take everything personally.

Pony has a terrible habit of saying things like "no offense, but I think you are an idiot" and thinks that saying no offense makes it alright. The comment showed pony actually used it properly and so I pointed it out.

I have no animosity or ill will towards pony, and I've even given him/her a playful nickname. Grow-up if it bothers you. You gym teacher, drill sergeant, college professor, office mates, manager, supervisor etc. Are all going to give you one. It's not ment to be insulting. You can go crazy, go get a gun and shoot up a theatre or school because you can't understand the world around you, or you can just learn to appreciate it.

Normally I would have just ignored this, but skybagel, I'm not sure why you've chosen to have a vendetta and snipe my comments. I suppose it better then shooting up a theatre or school which this generation is very fond of doing.

Seriously? An entire paragraph and you mention SCHOOL SHOOTINGS!? What is wrong with you...

You think I'm going to shoot someone because you were being a jerk? Shame on you.

Just leave. Now. Before I report you.

Just report him now. all he does is post bs and other stupid stuff that nobody cares about

My apologies to the rest of the thread. I did not mean for my comment to derail the entire thread by the cartel that dogpiles on anyone they don't like.

When I am a moderator, which I hope to be, and the next time you od something like this, you, my friend, might get Gnorc'd!

Quote: joerox123

Guys, can we focus on Swarm moving to s?

Is that a formal recommendation to move him up to S? What are your thoughts on which path should be there?

He means Barberous avenger.

Quote: zookinator

When I am a moderator, which I hope to be, and the next time you od something like this, you, my friend, might get Gnorc'd!

Zook, no need to rub the mod thing in. Earth-Dragon apologized for his comment.

I haven't had a chance to test yet, but what makes Chop Chop's defense spec so overpowered?

I understand his Wow-Pow helped him substantially, but why does his defensive spec outweigh his offensive, when it was the opposite in S:SA?

He doesn't get knocked back to other side of the arena everytime he takes a hit now. So the fact you can bear down on them much easier and the shield has a stun function and damage, Undead defender takes the cake with the utility afforded while blocking.

Quote: Laurix

I haven't had a chance to test yet, but what makes Chop Chop's defense spec so overpowered?

I understand his Wow-Pow helped him substantially, but why does his defensive spec outweigh his offensive, when it was the opposite in S:SA?

It's because his Wow Pow does approximately twice as much damage on Undead Defender, AND stunlocks. The reason the paths have flipped is because his Wow Pow is in fact so good that you won't use any of your other attacks, thereby defeating the purpose of having a sword.

Quote: Tashiji

Quote: Laurix

I haven't had a chance to test yet, but what makes Chop Chop's defense spec so overpowered?

I understand his Wow-Pow helped him substantially, but why does his defensive spec outweigh his offensive, when it was the opposite in S:SA?

It's because his Wow Pow does approximately twice as much damage on Undead Defender, AND stunlocks. The reason the paths have flipped is because his Wow Pow is in fact so good that you won't use any of your other attacks, thereby defeating the purpose of having a sword.

Ah, I see.

Yeah I just started playing the game today, so haven't had much time for testing. Not to mention still waiting on 10+ characters to come in the mail.

Quote: Earth-Dragon

Quote: Skybagel

Quote: Earth-Dragon

Give pony a carrot!!! That was an extremely well issued no offense statement at the end of your message. You had an observation that might hurt his findings, you pointed it out, but weren't trying to attack the poster. It matters more what direction someone is headed in then where they are at currently.

Dude, don't be a jerk. Seriously.

I feel sorry for you guys when you get into high school. You have idea how to divulge from playful jab and done right insulting people. It only gets more intense in the job world, and there are those few adults who still take everything personally.

Pony has a terrible habit of saying things like "no offense, but I think you are an idiot" and thinks that saying no offense makes it alright. The comment showed pony actually used it properly and so I pointed it out.

I have no animosity or ill will towards pony, and I've even given him/her a playful nickname. Grow-up if it bothers you. You gym teacher, drill sergeant, college professor, office mates, manager, supervisor etc. Are all going to give you one. It's not ment to be insulting. You can go crazy, go get a gun and shoot up a theatre or school because you can't understand the world around you, or you can just learn to appreciate it.

Normally I would have just ignored this, but skybagel, I'm not sure why you've chosen to have a vendetta and snipe my comments. I suppose it better then shooting up a theatre or school which this generation is very fond of doing.

Could you please stop calling me that? I'm not even using a pony icon anymore nor am I a brony. And yes, I know it's just a playful nickname.

That's fine Light.

Am I the only one that thinks I-Beam Supreme should be moved up to A tier. I just got him today and I already think he's leagues above B, though he's not perfect I'll admit.

His Laser Mines and I-Beam can be quite devastating for melee guys who can't touch him from a distance, even Earth guys like Bash or Terrafin (S1 only for both), they are soo powerful when combined. You can only set up 3 mines at a time and each one only does around 16 damage, but they make great obstacles for your opponent when trying to catch you. and it can be a bit tricky to dodge. His fingerguns are really spammable and can damage quite quick, and the homing fists can do 80 damage if both of them hit your opponent. He also has really good stats (except for Speed).

What he lacks though is speed, he doesn't move very fast and his I-beam slows him down a little. His rockets also fall to the ground slowly and can be dodged quite easily with little effort (like a Paramushroom Promotion issue), they can hit people on platforms though. Bouncer also lacks close-range attacks.

He's flawed, but at least a little better than B tier. He could probably compete well against the other giants with his long-range tactics

Hi everyone. It's ChillElf here, and it's going to be my first post on these boards. I've been lurking for a while, mainly keeping an eye on whether or not this tier list fits my impressions of the characters, though I've been reluctant to join due to the commotion that sometimes brews (ironically, above this post is the aftermath of another commotion). Originally I was going to join due to the popularity of Frozen Fury Chill, but decided not to when people came to their senses and put Ice Lancer in A (Ice Lancer > Frozen Fury).

I do think there are issues with the Tiers right now though. Tempest Dragon Whirlwind, Pook Blade Saint Stealth Elf and the assumed "0.500 win rate" do not sit well with me. I will state that I do not have access to a second player of equal skill, and so I must rely on Arena challenges to check the ability of a Skylander. However, I've played many videogames where such Tiers are established (Smash Bros, Pokemon), so a Tier List is very familiar to me.

Tempest Dragon Whirlwind (S2):

I'll start with Whirlwind. She's been my most reliable Skylander since SSA, with an uncanny knack for staying alive on Tempest Dragon. In Giants, though, her Cloudbursting WowPow puts her into A-Tier, not the B she currently resides in. Reading through this thread, I find many use her as a field defense character, to throw out clouds and rely on the Tempest Matrix to trap foes. This is NOT how I use her, and not how she should be used if maximum damage is the goal. Instead, Tempest Dragon Whirlwind is very cheap. Fly to the opponent (you should land if you need to turn sharply) and when you are in range for a Tempest Cloud to hit, launch all 3 that you have. Tempest Clouds are on of the few things spawned by a Skylander to have no health (unlike Hex's Bone Wall, for example), so the opponent cannot destroy the clouds. The Tempest Matrix ability stops your opponent getting away unscathed should they dodge.

But instead of just using Hit and Run, stay with your opponent and launch clouds repeatedly (spam it like you would spam Drobot's lasers). This is where her Cloudbursting Wow Pow comes into play. Not only do the clouds launch Rainbows when they spawn, they also launch when they explode. Not time out, explode. That means that when you launch the fourth Tempest Cloud (thereby exploding the 1st, since you can only have 3at a time), the first one explodes and launches a Rainbow. This lets you get the Rainbow damage (12) and the Cloud damage (30 per cloud, which is 30 x 3 + 30 from the fourth Rainbow) and the Tempest Matrix damage (18 (12?) and it ticks really quickly).And you don't have to stop at the fourth cloud. Just spam the clouds in your opponent's face. The Clouds hit for 30, the Matrix ticks, and upon explosion, the rainbow launched actually has a fair chance (I'd say 40% or so) of hitting another Cloud, giving another 3 Rainbows! Remember, all your clouds are being shot at the opponent, so the explosion's Rainbow is practically being smothered by another cloud, so chaining Rainbows is easy.

With this strategy, Tempest Dragon Whirlwind is no longer a Field Defense character though she does that pretty well too), she's like a faster, longer range SotF Ignitor, except she can move while the clouds work (whereas Ignitor's armour cannot move) and she has flight to increase her movement speed. Is she better than Ignitor, no, not at all (Elemental Power alone would make that match very one-sided), but she is definitely A-Tier. Her S1 self does not have Cloudbursting, but the strategy of spamming Tempest Clouds at your opponent from close range still works, just slightly less effectively, so S1 Tempest Dragon Whirlwind should be in B-Tier, below her S2 self.


Pook Blade Saint Stealth Elf

This isn't so much a Tier recommendation so much as a technique I find very useful. While I know PBS Stealth Elf is known for using Arboreal Acrobatics to approach and then spamming her primary attack, it is worth using her Stealth Ability (secondary attack). Now, you might think "But you can't see her!!!". But that's not how you use it. Get close, with Arboreal Acrobatics, and just before you start spamming her blades, activate her Stealth Mode (you're so close to your opponent, not seeing her is not a problem; you're not trying to walk anywhere). Use the primary attack button to exit her Stealth mode (doing 60 damage and knocking your opponent back). The knockback from this gives you a bit of extra room to work with, which I usually just use to either repeat the 60 damage stealth hit or grind away with blades a Stealth Elf is known to do.

I'd still say that Stealth Elf should be S, on account of the fact she has not been nerfed (unlike Drobot). Though she's been left behind with a questionable WowPow, her ability to rack up damage quickly hasn't suffered much and the ability to switch between grinding away with the blades and a 60 damage stealth strike gives her some flexibility. Admittedly, I do not count Giant characters (as their naturally larger health is rather unfair), so I suppose I would say she is S tier without Giants, A with Giants.


0.500 Win Streak

Just pointing out the mathematics here. It is not possible in a Tier for everyone to have a >0.500 win record in the Tier (some must lose more often than win). While it is perfectly justifiable to say "I believe Ice Lancer Chill is A tier because she beats more than 50% of her competition", it is unfair to say "Wham-Shell must be B because he can't maintain a >0.500 record in A" (note that I'm just using Wham-Shell because it's the first name to come to mind), simply because it is statistically impossible for everyone to beat a majority of the tier they reside in. I'm not saying this invalidates and arguments (yet), but to use this to justify dropping a character down a Tier is ridiculous. Even if a Skylander doesn't win >50% of their battles in a Tier, if their losses are close or they have even matchups in the Tier, that Skylander should not be moved down (I get the feeling Paramushroom Promotion Shroomboom is getting that treatment now, what with calls for him to be moved to C-Tier backed up only by the fact his ability to win in B is debated, not taking into account how badly he loses, if badly at all).


Anyways, I'll end my first post by reiterating that Tempest Dragon Whirlwind S2 should be moved to A, Tempest Dragon Whirlwind S1 should take her well-deserved place in B (both due to the ease of which you can spam Tempest Clouds as a projectile attack, with S2 a Tier higher due to Cloudbursting).

^ Yes, I agree with your math, which is why I try to espouse that ".500" is just a general measuring stick. In reality, there's a standard deviation of approximately 10%, otherwise the math wouldn't justify our having five tiers instead of ten, in addition to, as you've said, being impossible. This means, essentially, that we have more flexible rankings in each tier that do include .400 and .600 records. Only when a character begins approaching .700+ or .300- is it imperative to consider bumping or dropping a tier.

As to your post, however, I am in firm agreement with your sentiments on Tempest Dragon, particularly S2. As promised, Vhraina and I gave her a workout last night, and A-tier is exactly what we found as well, and for exactly the same reasons you and Silvers are both suggesting. Whirlwind is well above average, and many of the physics changes in the Giants engine benefit her substantially. I don't feel the need to point out why, because I would just be repeating what Silvers and ChillElf are saying. Suffice it to say, I concur.

I'm not so sure about Stealth Elf (any) in S-tier, though, and yes, it is because I do count Giants. That, and the prevalence of a much more powerful Undead element to keep her in check this game, plus a natural weakness to any keep-away artist who is actually faster than she is, of which there are a couple prominent ones.

I'm actually in favor of S1 Whirlwind Tempest dragon getting bumped to A tier. She can still be a pain in the butt to most characters even having no wow pow. I am a cloud spamming Whirlwind player and I find it to be epically cheap in most fights.

Quote: ChillElf

Hi everyone. It's ChillElf here, and it's going to be my first post on these boards. I've been lurking for a while, mainly keeping an eye on whether or not this tier list fits my impressions of the characters, though I've been reluctant to join due to the commotion that sometimes brews (ironically, above this post is the aftermath of another commotion). Originally I was going to join due to the popularity of Frozen Fury Chill, but decided not to when people came to their senses and put Ice Lancer in A (Ice Lancer > Frozen Fury).

I do think there are issues with the Tiers right now though. Tempest Dragon Whirlwind, Pook Blade Saint Stealth Elf and the assumed "0.500 win rate" do not sit well with me. I will state that I do not have access to a second player of equal skill, and so I must rely on Arena challenges to check the ability of a Skylander. However, I've played many videogames where such Tiers are established (Smash Bros, Pokemon), so a Tier List is very familiar to me.

Tempest Dragon Whirlwind (S2):

I'll start with Whirlwind. She's been my most reliable Skylander since SSA, with an uncanny knack for staying alive on Tempest Dragon. In Giants, though, her Cloudbursting WowPow puts her into A-Tier, not the B she currently resides in. Reading through this thread, I find many use her as a field defense character, to throw out clouds and rely on the Tempest Matrix to trap foes. This is NOT how I use her, and not how she should be used if maximum damage is the goal. Instead, Tempest Dragon Whirlwind is very cheap. Fly to the opponent (you should land if you need to turn sharply) and when you are in range for a Tempest Cloud to hit, launch all 3 that you have. Tempest Clouds are on of the few things spawned by a Skylander to have no health (unlike Hex's Bone Wall, for example), so the opponent cannot destroy the clouds. The Tempest Matrix ability stops your opponent getting away unscathed should they dodge.

But instead of just using Hit and Run, stay with your opponent and launch clouds repeatedly (spam it like you would spam Drobot's lasers). This is where her Cloudbursting Wow Pow comes into play. Not only do the clouds launch Rainbows when they spawn, they also launch when they explode. Not time out, explode. That means that when you launch the fourth Tempest Cloud (thereby exploding the 1st, since you can only have 3at a time), the first one explodes and launches a Rainbow. This lets you get the Rainbow damage (12) and the Cloud damage (30 per cloud, which is 30 x 3 + 30 from the fourth Rainbow) and the Tempest Matrix damage (18 (12?) and it ticks really quickly).And you don't have to stop at the fourth cloud. Just spam the clouds in your opponent's face. The Clouds hit for 30, the Matrix ticks, and upon explosion, the rainbow launched actually has a fair chance (I'd say 40% or so) of hitting another Cloud, giving another 3 Rainbows! Remember, all your clouds are being shot at the opponent, so the explosion's Rainbow is practically being smothered by another cloud, so chaining Rainbows is easy.

With this strategy, Tempest Dragon Whirlwind is no longer a Field Defense character though she does that pretty well too), she's like a faster, longer range SotF Ignitor, except she can move while the clouds work (whereas Ignitor's armour cannot move) and she has flight to increase her movement speed. Is she better than Ignitor, no, not at all (Elemental Power alone would make that match very one-sided), but she is definitely A-Tier. Her S1 self does not have Cloudbursting, but the strategy of spamming Tempest Clouds at your opponent from close range still works, just slightly less effectively, so S1 Tempest Dragon Whirlwind should be in B-Tier, below her S2 self.


Pook Blade Saint Stealth Elf

This isn't so much a Tier recommendation so much as a technique I find very useful. While I know PBS Stealth Elf is known for using Arboreal Acrobatics to approach and then spamming her primary attack, it is worth using her Stealth Ability (secondary attack). Now, you might think "But you can't see her!!!". But that's not how you use it. Get close, with Arboreal Acrobatics, and just before you start spamming her blades, activate her Stealth Mode (you're so close to your opponent, not seeing her is not a problem; you're not trying to walk anywhere). Use the primary attack button to exit her Stealth mode (doing 60 damage and knocking your opponent back). The knockback from this gives you a bit of extra room to work with, which I usually just use to either repeat the 60 damage stealth hit or grind away with blades a Stealth Elf is known to do.

I'd still say that Stealth Elf should be S, on account of the fact she has not been nerfed (unlike Drobot). Though she's been left behind with a questionable WowPow, her ability to rack up damage quickly hasn't suffered much and the ability to switch between grinding away with the blades and a 60 damage stealth strike gives her some flexibility. Admittedly, I do not count Giant characters (as their naturally larger health is rather unfair), so I suppose I would say she is S tier without Giants, A with Giants.


0.500 Win Streak

Just pointing out the mathematics here. It is not possible in a Tier for everyone to have a >0.500 win record in the Tier (some must lose more often than win). While it is perfectly justifiable to say "I believe Ice Lancer Chill is A tier because she beats more than 50% of her competition", it is unfair to say "Wham-Shell must be B because he can't maintain a >0.500 record in A" (note that I'm just using Wham-Shell because it's the first name to come to mind), simply because it is statistically impossible for everyone to beat a majority of the tier they reside in. I'm not saying this invalidates and arguments (yet), but to use this to justify dropping a character down a Tier is ridiculous. Even if a Skylander doesn't win >50% of their battles in a Tier, if their losses are close or they have even matchups in the Tier, that Skylander should not be moved down (I get the feeling Paramushroom Promotion Shroomboom is getting that treatment now, what with calls for him to be moved to C-Tier backed up only by the fact his ability to win in B is debated, not taking into account how badly he loses, if badly at all).


Anyways, I'll end my first post by reiterating that Tempest Dragon Whirlwind S2 should be moved to A, Tempest Dragon Whirlwind S1 should take her well-deserved place in B (both due to the ease of which you can spam Tempest Clouds as a projectile attack, with S2 a Tier higher due to Cloudbursting).

I completely agree with the Whirlwind stuff (as I was the one who first brought up bringing her to A, though nobody read it), but not Stealth Elf.

What she lacks is defense=low health and low armor is a real bad combination. She's powerful, but can be killed to quickly to pose a threat as overpowered. Why bother using the Stealth Move just to perform the knockback and 60 damage? You could just do the Primary combo instead to rack up more damage, she's fast and has a good damage output already (the stealth mode is still useless). Nonetheless; her short range, low health, and low armor keep her from being S tier in my book.

Keep her in A please.

I think Harpooner Gill Grunt belongs in C Tier.

What about you guys?

(Btw me and Earth-Dragon are cool now we settled it so ignore my previous messages on this topic sorry for spamming and over reacting)

Just got swarm, best way to use barberous avenger?

He's rather simple to use, in that there aren't any weird tricks, timing or combos to worry about. You mostly just beat things to a pulp; sort of like the Giant equivalent to Slam Bam, but with one added layer of strategy--the barb missiles. Basically, you are going to want to stay in flight constantly and keep up your rate of fire until you get close to the enemy, at which point you end flight and proceed to slash away, depending on the fact that very few characters can drain all of your enormous HP before you do theirs. However, there is one caveat to this approach: If your opponent out-damages you up close by (approximately) a 2-1 ratio or more, your Giant-sized HP isn't going to save you from a loss, and you'll need to resort to Plan B.

Plan B is keep-away, which Swarm is actually very effective at. Barb missiles and even the stinger blast are great tools for keeping your distance, and the fact that your wings deal contact damage only helps you more. Against characters like Eruptor, who will fry you in seconds if you get too close, this is the only approach where you have any chance of victory. Don't hesitate to use it when you need to.

In either strategy, use your charged blast where you feel it is appropriate. Do not, however, make this attack the focal point of your strategy--it has auxiliary use, and that's what it should be played for.

Swarm is such a strong character because he gets the defensive bonuses of flight, is a capable ranged and melee character with enormous HP, and can play both brawler and keep-away with ease in PVP. Honestly, this trend of support for S-rank Swarm may even land him there, because it's not like he has trouble. This is a semi-dominant character we're looking at, and by leagues the best Air champion.

EDIT: Also, not being biased simply because he's in my "team." He actually got there in the first place by being exceptionally good, and not because of an existing character preference. The one I wanted to use was Crusher, heh.

Crusher rock slide path is very hard to hit. The explosion also deals some nice damage. The armor just makes him cheap. He is my giant, for sure. Eruptor is amazing at close range, and so is slam bam.

Quote: LightSpyro13

Am I the only one that thinks I-Beam Supreme should be moved up to A tier. I just got him today and I already think he's leagues above B, though he's not perfect I'll admit.

His Laser Mines and I-Beam can be quite devastating for melee guys who can't touch him from a distance, even Earth guys like Bash or Terrafin (S1 only for both), they are soo powerful when combined. You can only set up 3 mines at a time and each one only does around 16 damage, but they make great obstacles for your opponent when trying to catch you. and it can be a bit tricky to dodge. His fingerguns are really spammable and can damage quite quick, and the homing fists can do 80 damage if both of them hit your opponent. He also has really good stats (except for Speed).

What he lacks though is speed, he doesn't move very fast and his I-beam slows him down a little. His rockets also fall to the ground slowly and can be dodged quite easily with little effort (like a Paramushroom Promotion issue), they can hit people on platforms though. Bouncer also lacks close-range attacks.

He's flawed, but at least a little better than B tier. He could probably compete well against the other giants with his long-range tactics

I 100% agree

Bouncer does have enough HP to compete in A despite his flaws. Likewise, Swarm and Tree Rex have enough HP to compete in S despite their own flaws. I think we need to start re-evaluating the Giants. B is almost too low for any of them, even the bad ones, simply because of how hard they are to defeat without an elemental or strategic advantage. I'm not making any recommendations here, however, except that we continue to test.

I agree. If bouncer gets a move up, than tree rex does too. He is waaaayy better than bouncer. So is hot head.

Many consider Bouncer to have the least potential of all the giants, but I can see I beam supreme going to A tier. Also Swarm going to S tier is reasonable. It's hard to say, but Swarm might be the best air element, but yeah, all of them are very good so it's hard to say.

Air is weakest element. Strongest is prolly life, or earth.

I don't really have Swarm, but I heard that what he lacks is defense. Although he's the fastest of all the Giants, he has the lowest armor and doesn't have great defensive techniques, making him very easy to hit (adding that he is such a big target).

Is that true?

Well, flight affords him the same defense bonus as any other flying character, so it's only a liability when on the ground. And let's not forget that 3 armor only adds 1% block rate, so a character with, for example, 15 armor, will only block 5% less than a character with 30. It only adds up in very large amounts, like in the case of guys who get a +40 bonus from an upgrade.

As for defensive techniques, I honestly feel his are as strong as any other currently-available Giant, simply because he can play keep-away and the others for the most part cannot.

Tashiji are you agreeing too Swarm S>

Tentatively I am. I'm not saying to move him right now, but I do support the idea to a certain degree, because the fact is he competes there. Nothing about his stats or abilities indicates he should, but he does, and he wins a fair share of the matches. Watch out for Ignitor and Flameslinger, but anyone else and he has at least a fighting chance. His element helps too; the top tiers are saturated with Earth, and although most Air characters can't really capitalize on that strength consistently, Swarm absolutely does.

What about the legendaries?

Quote: Drill_Sergeant

What about the legendaries?

I'd say they're in the exact same spot as their normal counterparts (L-Trigger Happy is in the same spot as S1 Trigger Happy, L-Ignitor is where the S2 Ignitors are, ect...)
They're slightly better, but they still have the same strategies and attacks as their normal counterparts.

Legendaries may have a very slight stat boost, but they're all functionally the same characters. What L. Stealth Elf wins, so does regular. What regular Stealth Elf loses, so does Legendary, and so forth. That's the reason why they're not listed separately.

Ok thanks, and judging by his attacks and speed, don't you think fright rider could potentially take down a giant?

Hmmmm. If fright rider had a ranged attack, he could. Charging in on a burniator hot head is suicide, though.

Fright Rider definitely gives both Tree Rexes problems when played right, but even so, there's not much room for error against Laserer's blasts especially.