darkSpyro

^ You can't test, but you can certainly assess the strengths of a character (stats, physics, gameplay) and how you think that should impact placement. As long as you make sure we remember it's not from PVP testing, I don't see anything wrong with sharing your findings. There's a lot we still don't know about the game engine that story mode experience helps with too.

EDIT: And Commander Crab is actually still E-tier. He's just awful. Tested him and the long and the short of it is, we were right all along. Here's why.

-Starfish are only medium range, and the homing is horrible. They disappear after they've traveled a certain length, and will not curve or pursue to chase an enemy.

-The "latching" effect is awful. Ticks three times, 2 damage per starfish. Even if all three (charged or regular; same damage either way) are latched on at once, the cumulative effect is just 18 damage.

-The "shared" combo that Commander Crab has access to is horrid; the low-damage mace spin that you're better off using standard melee strikes instead of. Whammy's one good combo is Combo C, which you get on Captain Crustacean only.

-His melee damage makes S1 Chop Chop look like Stealth Elf by comparison. 20~ per strike. Keep in mind there are melees out there who have no trouble hitting for 50~ per strike.

-Starfish receive no damage upgrade, and take too long to charge. Yours are just as powerful as Captain Crustacean's; the only advantage is the ability to shoot three at once.

In practice, he got DESTROYED by Smash & Bash, Clobber Troll, Battledozer, and Golden Frenzy in E-tier. Beats Magmantor (elemental advantage), Wind Master, and Total Tongue. Even money against Harpooner. This is a straight .500 record in E-tier.

In D, you're looking at losses to Triggs again, both builds of Zap, Boomer again, S1 Undead Defender, Glacier Yeti, both Lightning Rods, S2 Battledozer, Forest Ninja (elemental advantage), and even Bird Blaster. You'll beat Eruptor (elemental advantage) and Warnado again. Even against Spyro and Whirlwind. He just doesn't compete there, because all of his attacks are unwieldy and none do good damage.

Although I haven't checked, I don't think he could score a single win in B or above, and that includes against Fire guys. In C, he can deal with S1 Blademaster (although he does still lose occasionally) and that's about it.

In conclusion, we were right all along about E-tier. Like all the other E guys, it's a good concept that's fundamentally flawed and underpowered in-game. I encourage further testing, but to be frank, I don't expect your mileage to differ.

Quote: LightSpyro13

Well then you may just stink with Flameslinger, no offense. I did pretty well in PvP on Pyromancer (though not on Marksman unfortunately, that path is more fun in my opinion). I would rather keep him where he is, he's really fast and long-ranged; pretty hard to hard to catch. He just lacks offense and armor.

"I almost let you win, but no"
-Flameslinger

Did you ever think that you might just stink as the strong characters like Pulver dragon that you claim are horrible? Anyhow I was not playing as Lameslinger the whole time, but he lost to Siren griffin Sonicboom, Marauder Voodood, Harpooner Gill grunt, and Earthen avenger Dino rang.

^ Do your elemental Heroics. There is no way Sonic Boom can actually beat Flameslinger if both have upgrades. He will tear her to shreds. Gill Grunt has an elemental advantage, so he's expected to win, and the jetpack helps him clear flame trails--although, a keep-away expert still stands a good chance, depending on arena. Marauder Voodood is a great character with a puncher's chance of beating anyone (some not so consistently... but a chance), so I accept that. Dino Rang doesn't need to pursue; he's a natural keep-away deterrent, and Flameslinger is a keep-away character.

Basically, the only part of that I don't see as realistic is Sonic Boom, who only would have had a chance against a Flameslinger with no upgrades. And even then, a strong keepaway artist will still get her every time.

Well that did not happen. I was able to use teleporters and bounce pads to catch him and then roar in his face, sorry if you don't find it realistic, but it happened and it counts. Neither of them had any heroics so they're even. Voodood and Flameslinger were suprisingly close, Flameslinger was able to hinder Voodood quite a bit with the supernova, but Voodood won.

with hot head, both paths are amazing, its just that i think that oil baron does more dmg. you can set traps with the fire rain, and dat meteor does a whopping 100 dmg. its easily produced, too. with the burniater, the dmg is stil very high, its just that it doesnt compare with oil baron. the rain with 15 dmg per 1/4 second, easily deal the dmg, and lasts a while, too. i would move oil baron up. i dunno about S, but definitely A. a very strong character. he definitely beats lumbering laserer tree rex,zook,swarm, and stealth elf. a very underrated character.

Quote: Mrmorrises

Quote: LightSpyro13

Well then you may just stink with Flameslinger, no offense. I did pretty well in PvP on Pyromancer (though not on Marksman unfortunately, that path is more fun in my opinion). I would rather keep him where he is, he's really fast and long-ranged; pretty hard to hard to catch. He just lacks offense and armor.

"I almost let you win, but no"
-Flameslinger

Did you ever think that you might just stink as the strong characters like Pulver dragon that you claim are horrible? Anyhow I was not playing as Lameslinger the whole time, but he lost to Siren griffin Sonicboom, Marauder Voodood, Harpooner Gill grunt, and Earthen avenger Dino rang.

I'm not the only one using Pulver Dragon S1, 2 of my cousins also used him and they are only a little bit less skilled than me. The path itself is the problem not me, he can barely rack up ANY damage and you can still get hurt when rolling. His Tail Swipe and High health & Armor are the only things that keep me from voting that path for E. The Whole path sucks without the Wow Pow. What I stink with is :vd: Marauder (but only in Story Mode, I get surrounded a lot using him. Does extremely well in PVP) and Megadozer.

Anyway, he lost to ? If they both have no Heroics, then you obviously stink with Flameslinger, no offense. He would cream her on Pyromancer, just keep using the Supernova (while drawing BIG circles, Smaller circles aren't as strong) and spamming the buring patches or use the Volley Shot; she easily has the Elemental Disadvantage and couldn't beat him like that.

Marauder Vooodood is REALLY good in PvP because his damage is so high and he's really fast, so it's not surprise that he beat . has the ELemental Advantage, so of course he'd win. Neither of these should apply to dropping Pyromancer down.

I dunno about Earthen Avenger Dino Rang though.

I know it happened, I just don't find Sonic Boom to have a realistic chance versus Flameslinger even with isolated wins like this. He is not one of her strengths; in fact, she is quite weak to him. I commend you for beating him as her, because you had to overcome an uphill battle against an opponent with both an elemental and tactical advantage. However, being 0-versus-0 on Heroics actually means Flameslinger is at a marked disadvantage over how they perform in serious battles. The fact that you can easily exceed 100 Elemental Power in Giants means that every elemental advantage is way more pronounced than it was in S:SA, and they made a game-changing difference then too.

I'm not disagreeing with your results. I am disagreeing with Sonic Boom victories over Flameslinger being anything but very rare, however.

Quote: LightSpyro13

Quote: Mrmorrises

Quote: LightSpyro13

Well then you may just stink with Flameslinger, no offense. I did pretty well in PvP on Pyromancer (though not on Marksman unfortunately, that path is more fun in my opinion). I would rather keep him where he is, he's really fast and long-ranged; pretty hard to hard to catch. He just lacks offense and armor.

"I almost let you win, but no"
-Flameslinger

Did you ever think that you might just stink as the strong characters like Pulver dragon that you claim are horrible? Anyhow I was not playing as Lameslinger the whole time, but he lost to Siren griffin Sonicboom, Marauder Voodood, Harpooner Gill grunt, and Earthen avenger Dino rang.

I'm not the only one using Pulver Dragon S1, 2 of my cousins also used him and they are only a little bit less skilled than me. The path itself is the problem not me, he can barely rack up ANY damage and you can still get hurt when rolling. His Tail Swipe and High health & Armor are the only things that keep me from voting that path for E. The Whole path sucks without the Wow Pow. What I stink with is :vd: Marauder (but only in Story Mode, I get surrounded a lot using him. Does extremely well in PVP) and Megadozer.

Anyway, he lost to ? If they both have no Heroics, then you obviously stink with Flameslinger, no offense. He would cream her on Pyromancer, just keep using the Supernova (while drawing BIG circles, Smaller circles aren't as strong) and spamming the buring patches or use the Volley Shot; she easily has the Elemental Disadvantage and couldn't beat him like that.

Marauder Vooodood is REALLY good in PvP because his damage is so high and he's really fast, so it's not surprise that he beat . has the ELemental Advantage, so of course he'd win. Neither of these should apply to dropping Pyromancer down.

I dunno about Earthen Avenger Dino Rang though.

I was being Sonicboom, so stop telling me I stink as Flamelinger, when you find one of the greatest characters (pulver dragon Bash) to suck, he is easily a high tier character at our house. Sonicboom won fair and square, and thus it counts. Sure Gill grunt has the elemental advantage, but he still is E tier. I also beat Flameslinger with C tier nut crafter stump smash(S1). That applies to dropping him. Pulver dragon is great so obviously who ever plays him must stink as him.

Quote: LightSpyro13

Quote: Orohu

I'm working on an eight-element team for both PVP and Nightmare Mode, does this look feasible?

Tech: Lightcore Drobot
-(Master Blaster)
Life: Legendary Stealth Elf S2
-(Pook Blade Saint)
Undead: GITD Cynder S2
-(Shadowdancer)
Magic: Double Trouble
-(Channeler)
Earth: Legendary Bash
-(Pulver Dragon)
Fire: Legendary Ignitor S2
-(Soul of the Flame)
Water: Legendary Slam Bam S2
-(Blizzard Brawler)
Air: Sonic Boom
-(Medea Griffin)
Giant: Granite Crusher
-(Rubble Master)
All of these are ones I own or am getting on the 25th.

Not Pulver dragon L-Bash or Sonic Boom Medea Griffin.

Pulver Dragon Bash has a low damadge output and is still slow, very ineffective path for PvP. The path sucks without the Wow Pow.

Sonic Boom is strong, but Tempest Dragon is stronger.

Okay, I'll be sure to take my L-Bash down the Granite Dragon path once I get him, and luckily I have a S1 Whirlwind on the Tempest path right now.

Mrmorrises, I sometimes find your posts confusing because you don't have a full roster of S2 characters and use S1 guys interchangeably. I will say that Pulver Dragon has aged horribly if we're talking S2 figures, considering that you'll always be running a Wow Pow based offense (always) and Granite is better at it. S1 Pulver is at least as good as S1 Granite though, if not a little better. I'm assuming you mean the latter, but I don't know for sure, because you never say.

EDIT: Speaking of which! Which Flameslinger are you even proposing we lower? If it's S2, and you haven't played him, and you're going by the redundancy claims of a character ranking list we've established to be at least somewhat specious, we can't accept that here. What S1 Pyromancer can do is simply not the same. S2 can traverse the entire screen in one dash, and has tons of room for error to make wide-arc Supernovas, while S1 has neither of those advantages. The two are absolutely not interchangeable for testing purposes.

If you want to kick either S1 build down, I am very inclined to discuss, but if this is S2, we shouldn't be continuing this conversation until you've played him.

Quote: Mrmorrises

Quote: LightSpyro13

Quote: Mrmorrises

Did you ever think that you might just stink as the strong characters like Pulver dragon that you claim are horrible? Anyhow I was not playing as Lameslinger the whole time, but he lost to Siren griffin Sonicboom, Marauder Voodood, Harpooner Gill grunt, and Earthen avenger Dino rang.

I'm not the only one using Pulver Dragon S1, 2 of my cousins also used him and they are only a little bit less skilled than me. The path itself is the problem not me, he can barely rack up ANY damage and you can still get hurt when rolling. His Tail Swipe and High health & Armor are the only things that keep me from voting that path for E. The Whole path sucks without the Wow Pow. What I stink with is :vd: Marauder (but only in Story Mode, I get surrounded a lot using him. Does extremely well in PVP) and Megadozer.

Anyway, he lost to ? If they both have no Heroics, then you obviously stink with Flameslinger, no offense. He would cream her on Pyromancer, just keep using the Supernova (while drawing BIG circles, Smaller circles aren't as strong) and spamming the buring patches or use the Volley Shot; she easily has the Elemental Disadvantage and couldn't beat him like that.

Marauder Vooodood is REALLY good in PvP because his damage is so high and he's really fast, so it's not surprise that he beat . has the ELemental Advantage, so of course he'd win. Neither of these should apply to dropping Pyromancer down.

I dunno about Earthen Avenger Dino Rang though.

I was being Sonicboom, so stop telling me I stink as Flamelinger, when you find one of the greatest characters (pulver dragon Bash) to suck, he is easily a high tier character at our house. Sonicboom won fair and square, and thus it counts. Sure Gill grunt has the elemental advantage, but he still is E tier. I also beat Flameslinger with C tier nut crafter stump smash(S1). That applies to dropping him. Pulver dragon is great so obviously who ever plays him must stink as him.

Sure ya were, man! Quote:

I was able to use teleporters and bounce pads to catch him and then roar in his face

Sure Gill Grunt Harpooner is E tier, but he still has the elemental advantage and can just keep spamming the Harpoons and catch up with the jet pack, so that doesn't count.

Whoever is using Flameslinger OBVIOUSLY sucks, who the heck could lose to Sonic Boom Siren Griffin with an elemental disadvantage and a shorter-range? Maybe if she had the Wow Pow she'd put up a bigger fight, but S1 still wouldn't win if both players were equally skilled.

Besides, you're outnubermed here by at least 3 of us.

Quote:

Pulver dragon is great so obviously who ever plays him must stink as him

Nu-uh, Pulver Dragon S1 is terrible in PvP. Pulver Dragon was pretty good in PvE, but is outclassed in PvP by many. No matter who uses him in our house, the majority of his battles were defeats. He had a few victories, but only about 5. Although, one person just kept spamming the Roll attack without using the other attacks, so one person stunk like a skunk. But even then, the damage only increases by about 21 and you can still take damage when you roll. The speed doesn't increase much either, though the bigger size is kind of cool (does make him easier to hit though). His Tail Swipe and Great Health and Armor are really the only things he's got coming.

This video (not mine though) better explains my reasoning:

I was not playing as Flameslinger, my brother was, but I do have to admit he is not very good as him. Ijust wanted to share some results. No ill feelings meant , everyone does better as some characters than others. If you think Pulver dragon is rubbish I respect that, but just don't go telling people, whether it's me or not, that they suck as a character just because they had a loss that seems odd to you

^ Honestly, S1 Flameslinger himself is not that good. If that's who we're talking about, you and I don't even need to argue. I'm only arguing that S2 is a different matter entirely.

I agree with you that S1 Flameslinger isn't very good in this game. S2, might be a different story, but I don't have him so I would'nt know.

So would you say that S1 belongs in D or lower? Because you have fair experience with him and we're no longer debating S2 here, I really think your contributions can help us place those two builds accurately. I've barely tested them, while I have plenty of experience with S2. I want to hear what you think.

@LightSpyro13: Saying "No offense" doesn't make it not offensive. It's not an excuse to say what ever crap you want too. No offense though.

@Tashiji: Thank you! I'll be testing him soon.

Quote: Tashiji

So would you say that S1 belongs in D or lower? Because you have fair experience with him and we're no longer debating S2 here, I really think your contributions can help us place those two builds accurately. I've barely tested them, while I have plenty of experience with S2. I want to hear what you think.

I'm recommending D tier for the S1 Flameslingers. They lost to nut crafter, Earthen avenger, siren griffin, and Crystaleer, as well as losing to some D tier characters. If someone could test Flameslinger against the average tier then that would be good. Also, I saw you recommend Elementalist Voodood for B tier and I agree.

I'd rather keep Pyromancer S1 where he already is, just average-classed C tier in my opinion. I agree with Marksman, but not Pyromancer.

Anyway, I feel Volcanor should be moved up a little higher to C or B, definitely not D in my book. He racks up sooo much damage on this path and it's really good for close-quarters; definitely comptetes with Forest Ninja , Ultimate Rainbower (though partially because of the elemental advantage), Bird Blaster , Best of the Beast , and Paramushroom Promotion; all of which or are around the same speed and/or can't rack up nearly as much damage. His short-comings are his speed and Range; which causes trouble for him when facing faster and longer ranged people like Sheep Burner, Vine virtuso, Telsa Dragon, and Megadozer. He's underrated and better than how people say.

volcanor is amazing. you can rack up 48-64 dmg easily, but speed is a huge problem with him.

Agreed on Volcanor. Unified game physics made his eruption more like how the Wii version was before. He's at least C now, because he is an absolute BEAST up-close and presents major problems for even high tier melee. On the other hand, very easy to counter if you're not melee, or even if you're a melee with range like Wham-Shell so there are two sides. I think B is about the point where you have to assume the character can handle all comers to at least a decent battle though, so Eruptor's exploitable nature sort of caps him out around C for me. Another factor working against him is that his elemental weakness (Water) has a bunch of melees he can't really counter for a roster, and his strength (Air) has plenty of characters who would have no problem keeping away from him and winning at range.

He's flawed, but better than D. I recommend C.

Same here. I campaigned for him to stay in C but he was moved to D. I gave perfectly good reasons for it and so I am going to opt to move Volcanoer back up to C.

with bouncer, robot rocketeer, he is unstoppable in some arenas. the arenas are: troll factory, mushroom grove, and lockdown islands. he can camp out on the high ground, and spam his rockets. a simple but effective victory. he is ineffective on the slime pipe, sunrise towers, and the pirate arena. his low dmg fingerguns make him an easy kill for most A tiers there. he is an A on some arenas, and a D on the others.

Quote: Tashiji

Agreed on Volcanor. Unified game physics made his eruption more like how the Wii version was before. He's at least C now, because he is an absolute BEAST up-close and presents major problems for even high tier melee. On the other hand, very easy to counter if you're not melee, or even if you're a melee with range like Wham-Shell so there are two sides. I think B is about the point where you have to assume the character can handle all comers to at least a decent battle though, so Eruptor's exploitable nature sort of caps him out around C for me. Another factor working against him is that his elemental weakness (Water) has a bunch of melees he can't really counter for a roster, and his strength (Air) has plenty of characters who would have no problem keeping away from him and winning at range.

He's flawed, but better than D. I recommend C.

Except for Sonic Boom, that is. Too short ranged and Flying away is her only chance of escape. And at least he can take out one B tier with ease (I still agree with C though): Paramushroom Promotion.

I believe Eye of the strom Warnado should go up to C tier, maybe B. He can be very good playing keep away like Drill sergant. Think I'm biased?(my name and avatar) well I agree with wind master in E tier.

I'm curious to see where S2 Magmantor Eruptor winds up with his wow pow in action. His is the one I'm most curious about since it potentially covers a huge gap in his general offense.

hmmm, if it does low dmg, and doesnt tick that fast, expect staying in E, or D, and if it is high dmging, expect it in C, possibly B or A.

I think Eruptor's wow pow looks quite similar to Lightning rods.

I think Eruptor's Wow Pow stands to benefit Magmantor more, unless Volcanor gets some kind of damage boost to it. Likewise for Lightning Rod's and Typhoon Titan. Those are the two paths I expect to get better placements after their release. Prism Break will obviously stay Crystaleer with his.

good point. lr's looks a bit more ranged, though.

Quote: Tashiji

I think Eruptor's Wow Pow stands to benefit Magmantor more, unless Volcanor gets some kind of damage boost to it. Likewise for Lightning Rod's and Typhoon Titan. Those are the two paths I expect to get better placements after their release. Prism Break will obviously stay Crystaleer with his.

Nope, it's Prismancer that gets more of an improvement. Prism Break's Wow Pow is that he can send a pulse inside his laser beam that does 3x the damage of the regular energy beam, Prismancer's energy is stronger.

I still like Crystaleer more though.

prismancer is worse, because the beams dont go all over the place. the beams may do 90 dmg with the pulses on prismancer, but the 60 dmg pulses on crystaleer will hit multiple times.

Yeah but unless there's a group of enemies on PvE, Crystaleer with the Wow Pow is probably less effective.

I personally would prefer Crystaleer overall, but as of now the Wow Pow seems more effective on Prismancer. But we can't really tell because S2 Prism Break isn't even out yet.

Prismancer's energy is stronger, but he can't do more than two crystals in PVP. Crystaleer will be able to put it to more thorough use.

Lets do math!:

27
x3
___
81

40
x3
___

120 (anyone should know this, it's an easy math problem)

Lolnoep, it is 20 x 3 = 60, and can hit up to 4 times, or 30 x 3=90, and is less than likely to hit once.

Nope:

Crystaleer damage: 27 (or at least around it) 27x 3= 61

Primancer damage: 40 40x 3= 120

But, if yer figures are correct, the opponenet will most likely get hit 2+ on crystaleer, and only once on prismancer.

No you're all wrong.

27
x4
__
108

27
x3
__
81

81
x4
__
324

So yeah.....

No, it is 1+1 = llamas.

^ Haha! No.

Who kares bout the math. Wez can worry when we get him. Wez gots moar important studf to do.

I wonder, how well does S2 REALLY work in PvP? A friend told me his Wow Pow sucks because it only does 15 damage per shot and it still fires the weak and typical auto blaster shots. I'd like to know on Both paths.

Your friend isn't doing the math. Yes, Future Cannon only hits for 10, but it hits for 10 once every four Auto Blaster shots. Those are a bunch of low numbers, but they add up fast, especially if you're also blasting drill rockets at your opponent at every opportunity (20~ each) and clipping them with your charge when you can.

Why he is so cheap in PVP, of course, is that the majority of his offense auto-targets, and the Auto-Blaster does so regardless of what direction you're even facing, AND aims up to clip opponents standing at least one level above you in an arena. So, you have a mostly complete offense (all those small numbers do about 50 every two seconds) that can be run entirely while you retreat. Given that there's only one character who can cover more distance in less time than Drill Sergeant (Flameslinger S2), there's nothing that can really stop you from playing keep-away the whole fight, every fight, and just letting your opponents defeat themselves trying to pursue you. If any of the snipers try exploiting this, take your powered-up charge attack (which goes right through most damage) after them and watch how quickly you control the fight again.

Drilly is where he is on the tier list because he doesn't really have any weaknesses for the most part. He rubs shoulders with the best as a charger, he's arguably Flameslinger's equal as a keep-away guy, and his ranged attacks alone are at least the stuff of A-tier now that he has his Wow Pow. Heck, he even has a +40 Armor upgrade somewhere in there, and even though all that really amounts to is an average of 13.1% damage reduction, it's still more than all those characters with +0 are getting.

He's the complete package, and this crazy strategy of staying on the run and letting your auto-targeting Auto-Blaster do all the work is very effective. Very cheaply effective, but being annoying to fight doesn't mean he isn't strong.

EDIT: And as for Prism Break, the math isn't as linear as that, you guys. You have to account for the time it takes to get set up for damage by dropping crystals, with the variable of "What happens if my crystal is destroyed?" to calculate an accurate figure. Since this, of course, means you can't calculate an accurate figure at all, you have to consider who is more likely to be able to utilize this move repeatedly over the course of a prolonged PVP encounter; it's all probability. And due to Crystaleer's nature, he's probably more likely to do more damage using his Wow Pow over the course of an entire fight, simply because he can drop more crystals faster.

drilly has 1 weakness: stump smash. the auto blaster will target his meganuts and acorns, not him. and, stumpies high health kills drilly every time.

^ But Stumpy is, himself, an S-tier monster who annihilates most of the game's characters in similar fashion.

yes. and stumpies weakness......... i would guess ignitor or s2 chop chop. again, those are also S tiers, so....

considering S2 UD chop chop is oh so effective AND has an elemental advantage over stump smash, it's likely he'll win

Quote: Thumpterra12

yes. and stumpies weakness......... i would guess ignitor or s2 chop chop. again, those are also S tiers, so....

AND Series 2 Hex! Ignitor would pwn Stumps on Soul of the Flame, but not on Blademaster.

It seems like all S tier's weaknesses are other S'es.